Yes, that's the sweet spot model. So far all the sites I've read seem to have received the i7 for reviewing purposes. The 15 should have better battery life. I recall once upon a time AT reviewed the i7 MBA and although it performed better than the i5, it payed a battery penalty.
Yes please review the new MBP and MB. The 2016 MBP review seems to have slipped through the cracks but I would like to know how good or bad a job Apple did with the thermals in the Pro models.
One of them had tweeted it was in the works, but that was before the 2017 refresh came out, not sure if they'll jump to the new ones or finish with the 2016.
I really liked this. Very concise, informative, and to the point. Only thing I would change is the graphs. Red being the dominant color, I think the new Surface Pro should have been labeled with it instead of blue.
Do you find this comfortable as a laptop replacement? Meaning actually using it in your lap instead of a desk? Or is it too top heavy and awkward with the kickstand and lightweight keyboard?
I own the SP4 (i7+16Gb ram) and it can definitely replace a laptop and I do use it on occasion in my lap, but a regular laptop is definitely more suited for the task, so if you don't need a hybrid, I'd go for a regular laptop. Don't get me wrong I love the thing and it works brilliantly as a tablet when lying in bed or sitting on the sofa, and the keyboard is awesome when you need to do some writing/excel/other type of work done. The pen is also an awesome thing to have when reading pdfs/articles/books, or when working in photoshop. But if you don't need any of those things, I'd just go for a more powerful laptop.
I can use it on my lap if needed, but anything with a detachable keyboard isn't great for that experience. If you need to type in your lap a lot, this isn't for you. It's more for boardroom to boardroom.
Those keyboards are going to wear horribly, just as Alcantara does when automakers put in in places that people have to handle, like steering wheels or gearshifts.
makes the surface laptop a deeply unappealing choice, unless you're happy to upgrade your laptop every 2 years, as your friendly MS sales-rep would advise you to...
Since the keyboards are easily detached and can be replaced independently of the rest of the tablet, wear and tear might not be a problem as long as you can get your hands on a new one after it starts looking ragged. I know that's not an ideal solution, but it shouldn't discourage purchase of one of these things for those people that still have an interest in buying a tablet in modern times.
It is an odd position for BrokenCrayons to make, as he is typically a proponent of less waste and spending less on tech. To each their own but this seems to be very inconsistent with his previous posts. I think $2600 is absurd for what you get.
My justification is based on the purchase price of the Surface Pro. The price is fairly high relative to the hardware specs and suffers from limits in utility due to its tablet form factor. For someone making that sort of purchase for personal use, I'll go out on a limb to argue that there are emotional and social implications (ex: desire for a status symbol, brand loyalty to Microsoft, etc.) that override practical considerations and therefore the cost of a replacement keyboard is probably a less significant factor than the need to have one that looks fresh and new. In short, this is about the psychology of the buyer which doesn't have a lot to do with my personal preference to use borderline derelict laptops for my own computing needs.
if HP, Dell or Lenovo offered a 3:2 display - I would seriously consider it. I would lean towards the 360 models. I wonder why Microsoft didn't make the Surface Laptop a 360 model 2-1. are there serious compromises required to support a 360 hinge over a traditional clam shell laptop?
The $130 version does not include the Alcantara fabric, but also seems to stick with basic black for color scheme. It is not available yet, but is listed on the Microsoft Store. The Alcantara sheathed signature edition cost $160. If you are more worried about durability and a bit of savings than feel and style the regular edition would be your cover of choice. On the subject of durability and replaceability, it should be noted that the keyboard parts for most ultrabooks and laptops are available significantly cheaper. Unfortunately, for many ultrabooks and some laptops the replacement process can be prohibitively difficult for the average consumer. Professional repair service can run you as much or more if you don't shop around successfully.
Why the insistence on these sorts of very thin "cover" keyboards? Seems like painting yourself into a corner. For iPad you can use a separate bluetooth keyboard (eg the same Apple wireless keyboard that you can use with an iMac) and just carry that with you, along with a very lightweight cover that also acts as a stand (like the Apple cover and a thousand other covers). I assume Surface can also use a BT keyboard.
This pair doesn't look like a laptop anymore, if anything it's more like using an iMac. But it does mean you don't have to force all the compromises and constant weight of a super thin keyboard. It also means that (depending on your exact usage patterns) you can leave the keyboard at home, or in your hotel room, or whatever, and use the on-screen keyboard for small messages, just switching to the real keyboard when you need to type a lot.
Seems to me a better alternative for most users --- but most people seem unaware of it. Even in the Apple store, they were clueless when I explained this to them --- I had to actually demo pairing an Apple keyboard with an iPad before they believed me! People are just locked into this mental image of "make it look+feel like a laptop" even though that's not necessary.
Microsoft sells a tiny foldable Bluetooth keyboard with an Alcantara covering. I've been using it for months and it still looks good. It's a lot easier to unfold the keyboard when I need it and I can use the tablet without an attached keyboard in tablet mode. These cover-type keyboards add extra weight and make the tablet hard to use as a tablet.
I own a SP4 for personal use and a Huawei matebook for work. Let me tell you that you get used to the keyboard cover and stand theres no going back. i wish my company would give me a sp4 or the new one instead of the matebook. matebook can keep the type c. Type c is very nice but not that necessary for work.
my past buying habits were mid level laptops - not top of the line ultrabooks - and the hinge is the Achilles heel of them. plastic and metal hinges are not made for a long marriage. the old adage, you pay for what you get, surely does apply
Not everyone uses the same coatings on it. Microsoft has shipped alcantara Surface keyboards for years and they hold up well on average. The iPad Pros Apple fabric keyboard, whatever that fabric is, wears more in weeks, Microsofts is still the best fabric tabletey keyboard solution.
If you're talking about that video they posted on Reddit, someone else said the 'wear' is actually just grime that can be washed off.
Everyone clings so hard to the marketing material. If the original Type Cover wasn't Alcantara, it was at least something very similar. It had a wonderful feel and withstood the years well. It washed well, too, and looks great even today. I could never stand the weird felt-like stuff they've been using the last few years.
My original Surface Pro KB is just fine. The track pad has bit of visible wear but other than that, its still nice. BillBear has been going on and on about the damn Alcantara but you can get a keyboard without it so I don't understand the grief. Anncedotal evidence of Porsche steering wheels, doesnt prove anything. The material is used on all kinds of things with no issues.
Only time will tell if the polyurethane coating on the Surface Signature Type Cover holds up well, but I've been using the Surface Ergonomic Keyboard on my desk for over six months now, and the Alcantara still looks almost new. YMMV, of course, but the normal Surface Type Cover can get beat up too. I don't see this as the major downside of others. At worst, it's going to be about the same as what we've already got.
Great review! Hopefully you can also review the i5 model, or at least comment on the performance of their new fanless design. While I've been hearing positive things, I would really like to know how it throttles when dealing with a heavy workload.
Only the Verge so far has received an i5 model and according to the reviewer it supposedly gets better battery life. The i7 allegedly suffers a 20% drop in battery life.
This is a limitation of the Intel GPU. It only provides DisplayPort 1.2 streams, so you can only connect one UHD/60Hz display per stream. There are two though, since you can connect one on the dock, and one on the device itself, so you can run 2 UHD/60Hz but the cabling is a bit silly.
So must be the two port on the SP4 Dock are just daisy chained on the same channel. Makes sense - all the more reason why a thunderbolt port on the SP would be great.
I always wanted to see a detailed thermal/throttling test between the i5 and the i7 on the SP4 and would be even more interesting with the 2017 SP (since the i5 is fanless).
Really wish you would have run the thermal test a little longer. In your original SP4 tests you really didn't see the thermal limits reached until around 25 mins (which is when you stopped testing this time).
From this article you say "The Iris does allow a lot more graphics potential, but for longer duration requirements, it may not offer much of an upgrade."
This is what I would really like to see examined. Is the extra money for the i7 really worth it, particularly when longer durations are taken into account.
I'll run a longer test and let you know how I make out. The temperatures were stable though so it *should* be the same, but I can try this and let you know.
I swear I say this every time, but it bears repeating: One of the original ideas about ultrabooks was that we could throttle them while mobile, but then run them at full power by using some kind of cooling dock. Same thing here: If you had (or made?) something that cools off the chassis, it'll reach higher performance levels. Using it outside on a cold and windy day will give you more frames per second. Stuff like that.
I remember owning a pro 4 and being disappointed learning that the review samples used a faster ssd. All retail units had much slower ssds and a ridiculous amount of light bleed on the displays. I had one at launch (and returned a few to try and get less light bleed and perhaps the faster ssd used by the review units) but the first time I got a blue screen negating over an hour of work it had to go. It was a great concept, as I ultimately went with the Vaio Z Canvas (during the fire sale). The Vaio has been by far the better option, with plenty of ports and power (not to mention it also has a better display) to its advantage over the surface pro.
I actually owned a sp4 i5 with the toshiba ssd and it had faster write. about 1GBps write speed. But tbe screen developed a small preasure point and i got it replaced. I got a samsung ssd on the replacement. not as fast.
As an owner of Surface Pro 2 and 4, I must say, I went from loving the idea to hating the series. To list a few issues: - Normal sleep mode never works. Either it wakes up to a black screen, or it used up all the battery while sleeping. It is pretty much required to disable sleep and use hibernation instead. - The Wacom pen on SP2 worked well. The one on the SP4 is a huge step downwards. If you want to draw a straight line, you need to draw it by the edge of the screen, because when you draw in the middle of the screen it'd give you a squigly line. Happaned even after exchanging for another one at MS store. - On the SP4, I encountered a bug where a process "Microsoft IME" would hog up 100% of the CPU. If memory serves, it was introduced by the Anniversary Update. After a lengthy thread on Microsoft forum with many other victims, MS did fix it. But it took them 3 months. - When charging, if the SP4 is grounded slightly different than myself, the touchpad would have an jittery response. I have to touch the chassis of the SP4 with my other hand to make the touchpad work normally. Happaned even after exchanging for another one at MS store.
This is enough examples. The Surface Pro series was Microsoft's poster child, yet they couldn't even get all the basic laptop features working stably for 4 generations. With laptops from other manufacturers, one can defend MS by saying "they have many different hardware to support, drivers take time to mature". Sure. What about the Surface Pro series? You can't really defend them with the same points - all the hardware is chosen and supported by Microsoft themselves. By Surface Pro 4, they really shouldn't still be struggling with delivering firmware that don't break your hardware and a sleep mode that works. I hope the new Surface Pro fares better this time on these departments, but I don't have high hopes for them. Microsoft has a much stronger showing for innovation in recent years, yet the hardware that they deliver are full of small glitches, and the stability of their consumer operating system has been such a mess.
I had a lot of problems with the little things. When I close my cover, the touchpad starts activating the screen, causing it to wake from sleep or start dragging icons around. I'm actually having a more consistent time with my $400 Chuwi. It feels weirdly magical to be able to close it without worrying about it waking up again.
Pretty curious about that 15W fanless middle tier. I'm assuming it would act pretty Core M-ey, but I wonder if it would do worse than silicon selected for the lower TDP, or if the chips are pretty much the same with different TDP-Downs.
Yeah that's what I meant about the TDP-Down, in theory a 15W chip with a tdp-down to 7W and a 5W chip with a TDP-up to 7W would act the same as the silicon is the same.
Have they fixed multi-monitor output yet? I support 11 various Surface devices and they are terrible about switching modes/monitors. The stock screen's resolution is unusable for most my users with everything so tiny.
This is my one complaint with my Surface Book -- it gets all wonky when I plug it into the dock and drive two 1440p monitors, then disconnect it and use it as a laptop. The interface doesn't snap back to normal and I usually have to reboot to get the text rendering properly again. Sometimes the dock automatically switches the resolution properly when plugged in, and sometimes it doesn't.
This seems like something that should be fixable with a simple Windows update, but I was still having issues as of the last update.
They've made advances here in the last couple of Windows 10 Updates in particular. Due to the short amount of time we've had to work with the device, I've not hooked it up to an external display yet, but I can.
I am so tired of reading about the success of the Surface Pro, when it's clearly been close to a failure.
Consider that Microsoft sold about $4.2 billion worth of products in the Surface division during 2016. That includes Surface Pro, Surface 3, Surfacebooks, keyboards, etc. the most popular Surface Pro is the i5 256GB 8GB RAM model. Most Surface Pros are sold with the keyboard.
You can do some math. That makes the average Surface Pro sale about $1,450. Doing some very simplistic work, ignoring everything else, and pretending that every sale is a Surface Pro. We get a maximum of 2.9 million Surface Pros sold in 2016. The real numbers will be lower once Surfacebooks and Surface 3 models are subtracted out.
That's not a lot. I read in Computerworld, Information week and other places, that the biggest buyers of Surface Pro devices are IT departments, where it fits within their Microsoft based environment.
I know this isn't popular to say here, but it's straight numbers. It's not a lie. This line has never really been successful, despite the joyful writing I see about it. The reality is something else. And now, the last quarter had a 26% drop in sales for the division, so tablet retrenchment has caught up with them. That's likely one reason why Microsoft has slowed down. I doubt this has ever been profitable for them.
The success is how it's created a new category of devices. It also happens to be the best device in that category. It's caused everyone in the industry to make a similar, and sometimes, identical, device, but without the build quality and polish.
I'd like to know just how successful that entire category is. I never see one of the things anywhere. I've never met anyone who has one. I think there's more talk than action.
Surface Revenue: 2015 over 2014 was an increase of 65% 2016 over 2015 was an increase of 13% Given that the PC market as a whole over this time was stagnant or decreasing, for Microsoft to produce these gains is pretty significant.
As for the unit volume, with a price close to $1,500 (or more), it is expected that number of units sold would be significantly less than other tablets.
I see most students on campus(graduate school) are either using MBA or Surface Pro 3/4 now. This says a lot, consider only a couple years ago when most people are using MBA. You're right about IT department buying them, our company has bought a few of them as test drivers. I can see us getting more as the trial has been mostly smooth so far.
It's their fastest product to a billion dollars. Sales may not be Apple big but nothing really is. As a single high end model, compared to the XPSs and Spectre x360s of the world, it does well.
This was the most disappointing announcement I've seen this year. My Surface Pro 3 is breaking little by little, and I've been waiting a while to see if the SP5 (or whatever they want to call it) was a worthy upgrade.
And yet, in comparison, the Apple Ipad Pro is what I wanted out of Microsoft, not this. It has the screen, the performance, the price. Everything but the software (I use a lot of Adobe stuff). Glad to see Anandtech confirm my disappointment in MS in such a succinct manner. Good job on the review anyway.
Being able to use real Adobe software instead of toy apps is a pretty big deal at this price point, no? I wish Apple would release an iPad Pro that ran full OSX programs too, so that you could use it as a tablet or use it for professional work. But Apple isn't selling that product.
Affinity Photo is not a "toy app". Since there's a Windows version, someone should make a comparison of that on an iPad Pro vs. the same app on a Surface Pro.
If I can't run the full versions of Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects on it, it's not a "Pro" machine, it's a big tablet for web browsing and playing games.
it runs crippled office that only usable for the most basics. No, its not "pro" at all as most offices use at least some advanced functionalities of office software including Macro, outlook integration, database integration etc.
The issue is that the iPad Pro runs an ARM-based OS while macOS is x64-based. Perhaps Apple could insist that developers write universal apps but they are not in as good a position as Microsoft to do so, since macOS is a niche OS.
If this is Microsoft's take on evolution, I'd expect extinction soon. The Surface Pro is becoming like a panda - cute but close to an evolutionary dead end. No USB-C, no Thunderbolt, crazy expensive pen and keyboard...
Apple can get away with niche products like the iPad Pro because it has Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury, it only has the Surface Pro and Pro-derived Surface Book.
I have a Surface Pro 3, shipped with Windows 7 at the time, while the screen itself looks good, the multi touch is really not for Windows 7.
Upgraded to Windows 10, had several firmware issues, including not powering up, freeze on boot screen... Returned to MS twice and they wiped the device twice... Now the device is still running on Windows 7, I had no intention to do the upgrade anymore, it's now sitting next to my TV...
Here's the point, the device looks slick and attractive, however I can never use it like an iPad, it's heavier, much less accessible in your hand. The Windows 10 overall is not touch friendly. If you connect the type cover to use as a laptop, the kickstand cuts into your lap, if you put onto a desk, it feels flimsy, typing on the expensive type cover feels bad, it's a cheap and unreliable experience.
I would never buy this kind of computer again. At $2,000 USD, I would rather buy a iPad pro with a portable laptop.
Probably, but it's just such a weird statement to make. It's not as if Windows 8.1 was wonderful for touch, as soon as you got out of the modern UI it was kind of hard to navigate without a pen.
Brett, do you think it's worth upgrading from the SP4 for heavy usage (Adobe, SolidWorks) or should I get the Surface Book instead? I have the i5 w/8GB RAM and it's getting kind of limiting. At least when it comes to memory (SolidWorks keeps bugging me with low RAM warnings all the time)
Upgrading from SP4 to SP isn't something I would recommend to everyone, but you're in a situation where you needed a faster SP4 anyway. There's a big jump (as I'm sure you saw) from the i5 SP4 to this i7 model. Obviously the XPS 15 is much bigger, and has way more GPU, but you lose the portability.
As much as this is an incremental upgrade over the 4, it's a lot of very nice small changes.
I can't recommend the Surface Book right now only because it's really in need of a refresh - especially the GPU - but I do like the Book very much if you need more performance and battery life. I'd hold off though and see after it gets an update.
I'll probably wait for a Book-refresh before I make a decision. The dGPU would probably be nice to have, and hopefully they can cram a Pascal-series GPU into the base.
1.4 GHz on the CPU and 750 MHz on the GPU for sustained loads - expected, normal, but still somehow disappointing. You're essentially getting a very low-clocked dual-core CPU paired with about 580 GFLOPS of GPU with up to 100 GB/s memory bandwidth, if my amateur calculations are not entirely idiotic. Of course, said CPU having hyper-threading, AVX, L4 cache, and the latest Intel microarchitecture, certainly helps.
I wonder what the m3-7Y30 in the entry model is capable of under a sustain load. I'd suspect about 550 MHz on the CPU and about 240 GFLOPS for the GPU.
To summarize quickly, the 615 is rated at 345.6 - 403.2 GFLOPS and the 640 is capable of 729.6 - 806.4 GFLOPS, but that excludes variables specific to the Surface Pro in question.
Those absurd prices and base specs are so bad and the lack of ports. Also the fact that the keyboard and pen are purchased separately, it feels like Microsoft are going with their heads against the wall. Better wait for Eve-V value and the thinking of what the user needs are so ahead.
I bought a Surface Pro 4 last year thinking it could replace my iPad Gen 4 and 2010 Macbook Air in one fell swoop. Needless to say, I couldn't get use to the size of the device in tablet mode, and it wasn't very steady on my lap when I used the kickstand & type cover. I decided to return it, and even now, I'm still using my old (and slow) iPad and MBA as I continue my search.
Brett, thank you for the great review! This evolution approach for new Microsoft Surface Pro is a pretty lame version of what the fans were expecting to be a true successor, the real Surface Pro 5 You might like this video hits like the last nail in the coffin and is funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sC82vnR7A
I have never been fan of a "laptop" that's as unstable on your laps as the Surface Pro 4, and a "tablet" that's as thick as heavy as the Surface Pro, and with such relatively poor touch GUI and the lack of much tablet apps. In other words, it was a poor laptop, and a poor tablet. The new one looks like more of the same. I'd rather by myself a Lenovo Yoga 700 or 900-series ultra-tin laptops foldable keyboard (yes, real keyboard, not keyboard "covers")
Unfortunately yes, most tablets make poor laptops. Large Windows tablets also make poor tablets because they're heavy and Windows still isn't touch friendly. I'm a masochist who loves traveling light so I don't mind rocking a cheap Teclast Windows tablet. I couldn't justify spending on a Surface when it costs so much and it doesn't know what it is.
Okay, so there's never been anything more than rhetoric flying around about the pens. "Oh, it's so much better now!" It sounds good, but then I also hear people swear by the Apple Pencil. Is it possible to benchmark those kinds of things? Would it be possible for you to measure activation forces various pens, as well as maybe latency and pressure-levels-per-gram-of-force?
Also, was the original Type Cover Alcantara? I haven't seen a word of it, but that material really surprised me when I first encountered it. It seems like it couldn't have been, because everyone is going gaga over this iteration.
I haven't used the Apple Pencil for a while now, but it seems like both are pretty close in terms of usability. We can measure some of the things you mentioned, but not all, at least without new equipment which would have limited value outside of testing a stylus. But I don't have the Apple Pencil to compare it against anyway.
The original Type Cover was not Alcantara, although they did release a Signature version with the synthetic fabric after the Surface Pro 4 launched.
About AnandTech A Message from Our Founder, Anand Shimpi We are motivated by one thing and one thing only: doing right by you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AWESOME! Can you please investigate my claims that this Laptop is using a Gov't Sponsored Spyware Platform "OR" provide "ANY" EVIDENCE that these claims are incorrect without simply deleting my posts without explanation? I will gladly provide hundreds of examples of spyware/extortionware and malware if you like Can't wait for an HONEST review THANKS! Bullwinkle J Moose
"But it seems like wasted space to offer a mini DisplayPort connecter over a USB-C port which could easily handle DisplayPort duties (and so much more). But it seems like wasted space to offer a mini DisplayPort connecter over a USB-C port which could easily handle DisplayPort duties (and so much more). "
It would also be nice if they got rid of the proprietary power connector and used USB-C. Two full USB-C ports and a USB-A port would have been a perfect port combination, in my opinion.
as someone that trips over the power cable too often, I appreciate the magnetic connector. do agree with the comment regarding replacing Mini Display Port with USB-C but that would be dependent on cost impact.
The lack of USB-C is puzzling. It is clearly the port of the future and could replace both the data and charging ports. At least replace the mDP port with USB-C.
Microsoft is historically known to be very bad at expecting revolutions in computing that everyone else had been predicting. Case in point, how Microsoft "missed" the rise of the WWW in the 1990s and then played catch-up with arguably mediocre software companies like Netscape and Sun Microsystems (both RIP). Or how Microsoft was caught napping as Apple and Google developed the class-leading smartphone OSes.
Thank you for a very nice review. In my opinion, the 4GB Ram for today hardware is totally inappropriate. They should have at least 8GB with 64bit Windows 10.
Did you happen to test whether the screen jitters under high heat load? A substantial portion of Surface Pro 4 users have reported an unserviceable recurring hardware defect in which the screen shakes after heated and refurbished replacements develop the same problem. Not resetting the computer, nor rolling back drivers fixes the problem once it starts.
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fpsvash - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Great write-up, Brett. I really hope AT is able to get a Core i5 model in to evaluate its thermals.id4andrei - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Yes, that's the sweet spot model. So far all the sites I've read seem to have received the i7 for reviewing purposes. The 15 should have better battery life. I recall once upon a time AT reviewed the i7 MBA and although it performed better than the i5, it payed a battery penalty.KaarlisK - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Where is my i3 with 8GB of RAM? Hrrrrr....thesavvymage - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
yup. $1000 for a core m3 with 8gb ram and 256gb ssd wouldve been perfectkenansadhu - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
If the keyboard is included in the $1000 priceAllIDoIsWin - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
And maybe an external battery pack.. but $1000, seriously?!damianrobertjones - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link
There's a super amazing option that comes with the Surface price tag... "Don't buy it".NonSequitor - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
First page typo: the Surface Pro 4 was not released this summer.gsalkin - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Awesome job. Please do this for the Macbook Pros?AllIDoIsWin - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
They're rubbish, done ;)malireddyk - Monday, September 18, 2017 - link
LOLKPOM - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
Yes please review the new MBP and MB. The 2016 MBP review seems to have slipped through the cracks but I would like to know how good or bad a job Apple did with the thermals in the Pro models.tipoo - Monday, June 19, 2017 - link
One of them had tweeted it was in the works, but that was before the 2017 refresh came out, not sure if they'll jump to the new ones or finish with the 2016.ozzuneoj86 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
That isn't even close to cobalt blue.Dug - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I really liked this. Very concise, informative, and to the point.Only thing I would change is the graphs. Red being the dominant color, I think the new Surface Pro should have been labeled with it instead of blue.
Dug - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Do you find this comfortable as a laptop replacement? Meaning actually using it in your lap instead of a desk? Or is it too top heavy and awkward with the kickstand and lightweight keyboard?Toss3 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I own the SP4 (i7+16Gb ram) and it can definitely replace a laptop and I do use it on occasion in my lap, but a regular laptop is definitely more suited for the task, so if you don't need a hybrid, I'd go for a regular laptop. Don't get me wrong I love the thing and it works brilliantly as a tablet when lying in bed or sitting on the sofa, and the keyboard is awesome when you need to do some writing/excel/other type of work done. The pen is also an awesome thing to have when reading pdfs/articles/books, or when working in photoshop. But if you don't need any of those things, I'd just go for a more powerful laptop.Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I can use it on my lap if needed, but anything with a detachable keyboard isn't great for that experience. If you need to type in your lap a lot, this isn't for you. It's more for boardroom to boardroom.BillBear - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Those keyboards are going to wear horribly, just as Alcantara does when automakers put in in places that people have to handle, like steering wheels or gearshifts.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aebUNgMhQV4&t=...
R3MF - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
makes the surface laptop a deeply unappealing choice, unless you're happy to upgrade your laptop every 2 years, as your friendly MS sales-rep would advise you to...skavi - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
They have a coating on the fabric to prevent the worst of wear. If you've touched it, it feels a bit more rubbery than expected based on appearance.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Since the keyboards are easily detached and can be replaced independently of the rest of the tablet, wear and tear might not be a problem as long as you can get your hands on a new one after it starts looking ragged. I know that's not an ideal solution, but it shouldn't discourage purchase of one of these things for those people that still have an interest in buying a tablet in modern times.BillBear - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
For $130 apiece, you think they are disposable?fanofanand - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
It is an odd position for BrokenCrayons to make, as he is typically a proponent of less waste and spending less on tech. To each their own but this seems to be very inconsistent with his previous posts. I think $2600 is absurd for what you get.BrokenCrayons - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
My justification is based on the purchase price of the Surface Pro. The price is fairly high relative to the hardware specs and suffers from limits in utility due to its tablet form factor. For someone making that sort of purchase for personal use, I'll go out on a limb to argue that there are emotional and social implications (ex: desire for a status symbol, brand loyalty to Microsoft, etc.) that override practical considerations and therefore the cost of a replacement keyboard is probably a less significant factor than the need to have one that looks fresh and new. In short, this is about the psychology of the buyer which doesn't have a lot to do with my personal preference to use borderline derelict laptops for my own computing needs.Eliadbu - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Just buy Eve-V why pay excessive amount of money for a brand.simard57 - Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - link
has the Eve-V been reviewed here at AT?simard57 - Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - link
if HP, Dell or Lenovo offered a 3:2 display - I would seriously consider it.I would lean towards the 360 models. I wonder why Microsoft didn't make the Surface Laptop a 360 model 2-1. are there serious compromises required to support a 360 hinge over a traditional clam shell laptop?
desolation0 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
The $130 version does not include the Alcantara fabric, but also seems to stick with basic black for color scheme. It is not available yet, but is listed on the Microsoft Store. The Alcantara sheathed signature edition cost $160. If you are more worried about durability and a bit of savings than feel and style the regular edition would be your cover of choice. On the subject of durability and replaceability, it should be noted that the keyboard parts for most ultrabooks and laptops are available significantly cheaper. Unfortunately, for many ultrabooks and some laptops the replacement process can be prohibitively difficult for the average consumer. Professional repair service can run you as much or more if you don't shop around successfully.name99 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Why the insistence on these sorts of very thin "cover" keyboards? Seems like painting yourself into a corner.For iPad you can use a separate bluetooth keyboard (eg the same Apple wireless keyboard that you can use with an iMac) and just carry that with you, along with a very lightweight cover that also acts as a stand (like the Apple cover and a thousand other covers). I assume Surface can also use a BT keyboard.
This pair doesn't look like a laptop anymore, if anything it's more like using an iMac. But it does mean you don't have to force all the compromises and constant weight of a super thin keyboard. It also means that (depending on your exact usage patterns) you can leave the keyboard at home, or in your hotel room, or whatever, and use the on-screen keyboard for small messages, just switching to the real keyboard when you need to type a lot.
Seems to me a better alternative for most users --- but most people seem unaware of it. Even in the Apple store, they were clueless when I explained this to them --- I had to actually demo pairing an Apple keyboard with an iPad before they believed me!
People are just locked into this mental image of "make it look+feel like a laptop" even though that's not necessary.
serendip - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Microsoft sells a tiny foldable Bluetooth keyboard with an Alcantara covering. I've been using it for months and it still looks good. It's a lot easier to unfold the keyboard when I need it and I can use the tablet without an attached keyboard in tablet mode. These cover-type keyboards add extra weight and make the tablet hard to use as a tablet.SaolDan - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
I own a SP4 for personal use and a Huawei matebook for work. Let me tell you that you get used to the keyboard cover and stand theres no going back. i wish my company would give me a sp4 or the new one instead of the matebook. matebook can keep the type c. Type c is very nice but not that necessary for work.simard57 - Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - link
how would you compare the Matebook to the SP4?simard57 - Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - link
my past buying habits were mid level laptops - not top of the line ultrabooks - and the hinge is the Achilles heel of them. plastic and metal hinges are not made for a long marriage. the old adage, you pay for what you get, surely does applytipoo - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Not everyone uses the same coatings on it. Microsoft has shipped alcantara Surface keyboards for years and they hold up well on average. The iPad Pros Apple fabric keyboard, whatever that fabric is, wears more in weeks, Microsofts is still the best fabric tabletey keyboard solution.
BillBear - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
If a spray on coating could make the Alcantara covered steering wheels on a Porsche hold up to wear, they would most assuredly already be using it.However, if you check out the video above you'll see that this is simply not the case.
mkozakewich - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
If you're talking about that video they posted on Reddit, someone else said the 'wear' is actually just grime that can be washed off.Everyone clings so hard to the marketing material. If the original Type Cover wasn't Alcantara, it was at least something very similar. It had a wonderful feel and withstood the years well. It washed well, too, and looks great even today. I could never stand the weird felt-like stuff they've been using the last few years.
Manch - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
My original Surface Pro KB is just fine. The track pad has bit of visible wear but other than that, its still nice. BillBear has been going on and on about the damn Alcantara but you can get a keyboard without it so I don't understand the grief. Anncedotal evidence of Porsche steering wheels, doesnt prove anything. The material is used on all kinds of things with no issues.Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Only time will tell if the polyurethane coating on the Surface Signature Type Cover holds up well, but I've been using the Surface Ergonomic Keyboard on my desk for over six months now, and the Alcantara still looks almost new. YMMV, of course, but the normal Surface Type Cover can get beat up too. I don't see this as the major downside of others. At worst, it's going to be about the same as what we've already got.Manch - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Or you could buy the regular type cover with or without the fingerprint sensor instead of the AlcantaraNorth01 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Great review! Hopefully you can also review the i5 model, or at least comment on the performance of their new fanless design. While I've been hearing positive things, I would really like to know how it throttles when dealing with a heavy workload.id4andrei - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Only the Verge so far has received an i5 model and according to the reviewer it supposedly gets better battery life. The i7 allegedly suffers a 20% drop in battery life.ryan.bunce - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
The previous Surface Pros were unable to drive dual 4K screens at 60Hz. Did you happen to test the new one with two 4K screens?MattMe - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
This I did not know. Do you mean with the external Surface (4) dock?I'm sure I'd seen shots of people doing that. I've very sure I've seen it with the Surface Book, and that uses the same CPU SKUs at the Pro 4.
ryan.bunce - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Yes with the dock, but also if you daisy chain the monitors together. Here's a couple of articles from folks who've noted it:http://tiamat.tsotech.com/surface-book-incapable-o...
https://www.petri.com/run-two-4k-monitors-surface
Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
This is a limitation of the Intel GPU. It only provides DisplayPort 1.2 streams, so you can only connect one UHD/60Hz display per stream. There are two though, since you can connect one on the dock, and one on the device itself, so you can run 2 UHD/60Hz but the cabling is a bit silly.ryan.bunce - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
So must be the two port on the SP4 Dock are just daisy chained on the same channel. Makes sense - all the more reason why a thunderbolt port on the SP would be great.soliloquist - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I always wanted to see a detailed thermal/throttling test between the i5 and the i7 on the SP4 and would be even more interesting with the 2017 SP (since the i5 is fanless).Really wish you would have run the thermal test a little longer. In your original SP4 tests you really didn't see the thermal limits reached until around 25 mins (which is when you stopped testing this time).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9727/the-microsoft-s...
From this article you say "The Iris does allow a lot more graphics potential, but for longer duration requirements, it may not offer much of an upgrade."
This is what I would really like to see examined. Is the extra money for the i7 really worth it, particularly when longer durations are taken into account.
Thanks for the great write up otherwise.
Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I'll run a longer test and let you know how I make out. The temperatures were stable though so it *should* be the same, but I can try this and let you know.soliloquist - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Thanks. Will look for it!mkozakewich - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
I swear I say this every time, but it bears repeating: One of the original ideas about ultrabooks was that we could throttle them while mobile, but then run them at full power by using some kind of cooling dock. Same thing here: If you had (or made?) something that cools off the chassis, it'll reach higher performance levels. Using it outside on a cold and windy day will give you more frames per second. Stuff like that.tipoo - Monday, June 19, 2017 - link
Yup, very interested about the fanless 15W i5 and how well that can keep up. In theory it would act pretty Core M-ey.anactoraaron - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I remember owning a pro 4 and being disappointed learning that the review samples used a faster ssd. All retail units had much slower ssds and a ridiculous amount of light bleed on the displays. I had one at launch (and returned a few to try and get less light bleed and perhaps the faster ssd used by the review units) but the first time I got a blue screen negating over an hour of work it had to go. It was a great concept, as I ultimately went with the Vaio Z Canvas (during the fire sale). The Vaio has been by far the better option, with plenty of ports and power (not to mention it also has a better display) to its advantage over the surface pro.SaolDan - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I actually owned a sp4 i5 with the toshiba ssd and it had faster write. about 1GBps write speed. But tbe screen developed a small preasure point and i got it replaced. I got a samsung ssd on the replacement. not as fast.samnish - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
As an owner of Surface Pro 2 and 4, I must say, I went from loving the idea to hating the series. To list a few issues:- Normal sleep mode never works. Either it wakes up to a black screen, or it used up all the battery while sleeping. It is pretty much required to disable sleep and use hibernation instead.
- The Wacom pen on SP2 worked well. The one on the SP4 is a huge step downwards. If you want to draw a straight line, you need to draw it by the edge of the screen, because when you draw in the middle of the screen it'd give you a squigly line. Happaned even after exchanging for another one at MS store.
- On the SP4, I encountered a bug where a process "Microsoft IME" would hog up 100% of the CPU. If memory serves, it was introduced by the Anniversary Update. After a lengthy thread on Microsoft forum with many other victims, MS did fix it. But it took them 3 months.
- When charging, if the SP4 is grounded slightly different than myself, the touchpad would have an jittery response. I have to touch the chassis of the SP4 with my other hand to make the touchpad work normally. Happaned even after exchanging for another one at MS store.
This is enough examples. The Surface Pro series was Microsoft's poster child, yet they couldn't even get all the basic laptop features working stably for 4 generations. With laptops from other manufacturers, one can defend MS by saying "they have many different hardware to support, drivers take time to mature". Sure. What about the Surface Pro series? You can't really defend them with the same points - all the hardware is chosen and supported by Microsoft themselves. By Surface Pro 4, they really shouldn't still be struggling with delivering firmware that don't break your hardware and a sleep mode that works. I hope the new Surface Pro fares better this time on these departments, but I don't have high hopes for them. Microsoft has a much stronger showing for innovation in recent years, yet the hardware that they deliver are full of small glitches, and the stability of their consumer operating system has been such a mess.
mkozakewich - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
I had a lot of problems with the little things. When I close my cover, the touchpad starts activating the screen, causing it to wake from sleep or start dragging icons around. I'm actually having a more consistent time with my $400 Chuwi. It feels weirdly magical to be able to close it without worrying about it waking up again.tipoo - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Pretty curious about that 15W fanless middle tier. I'm assuming it would act pretty Core M-ey, but I wonder if it would do worse than silicon selected for the lower TDP, or if the chips are pretty much the same with different TDP-Downs.id4andrei - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
The Core M SP4 had great cooling. As long as the fanless i5 throttles at about the same threshold as ultrabooks with fans it would be a success.KPOM - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
The 15w cpus can downvolt to 7W. I wounded if that is what Microsoft is doing with the i5.tipoo - Monday, June 19, 2017 - link
Yeah that's what I meant about the TDP-Down, in theory a 15W chip with a tdp-down to 7W and a 5W chip with a TDP-up to 7W would act the same as the silicon is the same.Icehawk - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Have they fixed multi-monitor output yet? I support 11 various Surface devices and they are terrible about switching modes/monitors. The stock screen's resolution is unusable for most my users with everything so tiny.gerz1219 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
This is my one complaint with my Surface Book -- it gets all wonky when I plug it into the dock and drive two 1440p monitors, then disconnect it and use it as a laptop. The interface doesn't snap back to normal and I usually have to reboot to get the text rendering properly again. Sometimes the dock automatically switches the resolution properly when plugged in, and sometimes it doesn't.This seems like something that should be fixable with a simple Windows update, but I was still having issues as of the last update.
Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
They've made advances here in the last couple of Windows 10 Updates in particular. Due to the short amount of time we've had to work with the device, I've not hooked it up to an external display yet, but I can.melgross - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I am so tired of reading about the success of the Surface Pro, when it's clearly been close to a failure.Consider that Microsoft sold about $4.2 billion worth of products in the Surface division during 2016. That includes Surface Pro, Surface 3, Surfacebooks, keyboards, etc. the most popular Surface Pro is the i5 256GB 8GB RAM model. Most Surface Pros are sold with the keyboard.
You can do some math. That makes the average Surface Pro sale about $1,450. Doing some very simplistic work, ignoring everything else, and pretending that every sale is a Surface Pro. We get a maximum of 2.9 million Surface Pros sold in 2016. The real numbers will be lower once Surfacebooks and Surface 3 models are subtracted out.
That's not a lot. I read in Computerworld, Information week and other places, that the biggest buyers of Surface Pro devices are IT departments, where it fits within their Microsoft based environment.
I know this isn't popular to say here, but it's straight numbers. It's not a lie. This line has never really been successful, despite the joyful writing I see about it. The reality is something else. And now, the last quarter had a 26% drop in sales for the division, so tablet retrenchment has caught up with them. That's likely one reason why Microsoft has slowed down. I doubt this has ever been profitable for them.
Brett Howse - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
The success is how it's created a new category of devices. It also happens to be the best device in that category. It's caused everyone in the industry to make a similar, and sometimes, identical, device, but without the build quality and polish.melgross - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I'd like to know just how successful that entire category is. I never see one of the things anywhere. I've never met anyone who has one. I think there's more talk than action.soliloquist - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Surface Revenue:2015 over 2014 was an increase of 65%
2016 over 2015 was an increase of 13%
Given that the PC market as a whole over this time was stagnant or decreasing, for Microsoft to produce these gains is pretty significant.
Source: Microsoft 2016 Annual Report
https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar16/in...
As for the unit volume, with a price close to $1,500 (or more), it is expected that number of units sold would be significantly less than other tablets.
tipoo - Monday, June 19, 2017 - link
I'm sure it's a matter of where one lives. My city isn't that big but I still see a few Surfaces in coffee shops and airports.
amdwilliam1985 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
I see most students on campus(graduate school) are either using MBA or Surface Pro 3/4 now. This says a lot, consider only a couple years ago when most people are using MBA.You're right about IT department buying them, our company has bought a few of them as test drivers. I can see us getting more as the trial has been mostly smooth so far.
Hurr Durr - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
>selling 3 mil devices>not a success because melgross says so
Woe to Microsoft.
tipoo - Monday, June 19, 2017 - link
It's their fastest product to a billion dollars. Sales may not be Apple big but nothing really is. As a single high end model, compared to the XPSs and Spectre x360s of the world, it does well.[email protected] - Monday, July 10, 2017 - link
you shills please stop lying...surface pro line has done very well ever since it came out... even the first generation was profitable.
50% of my friends bought surface pro, most of them 3 or 4.. i'm the only one with surface pro 1 and a few are using surface pro 2.
Frenetic Pony - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
This was the most disappointing announcement I've seen this year. My Surface Pro 3 is breaking little by little, and I've been waiting a while to see if the SP5 (or whatever they want to call it) was a worthy upgrade.And yet, in comparison, the Apple Ipad Pro is what I wanted out of Microsoft, not this. It has the screen, the performance, the price. Everything but the software (I use a lot of Adobe stuff). Glad to see Anandtech confirm my disappointment in MS in such a succinct manner. Good job on the review anyway.
gerz1219 - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Being able to use real Adobe software instead of toy apps is a pretty big deal at this price point, no? I wish Apple would release an iPad Pro that ran full OSX programs too, so that you could use it as a tablet or use it for professional work. But Apple isn't selling that product.melgross - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
The Whole point to a real tablet is to not run desktop software.Hurr Durr - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
I guess that`s why the category as a whole is in the crapper. Not enough blown up phone "apps".blackcrayon - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Affinity Photo is not a "toy app". Since there's a Windows version, someone should make a comparison of that on an iPad Pro vs. the same app on a Surface Pro.gerz1219 - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
If I can't run the full versions of Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects on it, it's not a "Pro" machine, it's a big tablet for web browsing and playing games.KPOM - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
It runs Office. That makes it "pro" enough for a lot of people.[email protected] - Monday, July 10, 2017 - link
it runs crippled office that only usable for the most basics. No, its not "pro" at all as most offices use at least some advanced functionalities of office software including Macro, outlook integration, database integration etc.KPOM - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
The issue is that the iPad Pro runs an ARM-based OS while macOS is x64-based. Perhaps Apple could insist that developers write universal apps but they are not in as good a position as Microsoft to do so, since macOS is a niche OS.serendip - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
If this is Microsoft's take on evolution, I'd expect extinction soon. The Surface Pro is becoming like a panda - cute but close to an evolutionary dead end. No USB-C, no Thunderbolt, crazy expensive pen and keyboard...Apple can get away with niche products like the iPad Pro because it has Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury, it only has the Surface Pro and Pro-derived Surface Book.
Kissmojo - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
I have a Surface Pro 3, shipped with Windows 7 at the time, while the screen itself looks good, the multi touch is really not for Windows 7.Upgraded to Windows 10, had several firmware issues, including not powering up, freeze on boot screen... Returned to MS twice and they wiped the device twice... Now the device is still running on Windows 7, I had no intention to do the upgrade anymore, it's now sitting next to my TV...
Here's the point, the device looks slick and attractive, however I can never use it like an iPad, it's heavier, much less accessible in your hand. The Windows 10 overall is not touch friendly.
If you connect the type cover to use as a laptop, the kickstand cuts into your lap, if you put onto a desk, it feels flimsy, typing on the expensive type cover feels bad, it's a cheap and unreliable experience.
I would never buy this kind of computer again. At $2,000 USD, I would rather buy a iPad pro with a portable laptop.
Gunde - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Where did you get a Surface Pro 3 with Windows 7? They only ever shipped with 8.1 and 10.Hurr Durr - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
It's a transparent crapple shill, come on.Gunde - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Probably, but it's just such a weird statement to make. It's not as if Windows 8.1 was wonderful for touch, as soon as you got out of the modern UI it was kind of hard to navigate without a pen.SaolDan - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
I thought the exact same thing. I SMELL LIE.mkozakewich - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Naw, the Surface RT 4 with Windows XP was my favourite platform ever. So intuitive!Kissmojo - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
Sorry, I was wrong, it's Windows 8 not 7, I was confused with the interface while writing.Kissmojo - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
Yes, it's running on Windows 8.1, I was confused while writing.[email protected] - Monday, July 10, 2017 - link
Liar! how much is Crapple paying you?they never even made a sp3 with w7... in fact... my surface pro 1 came with windows 8...
Laxaa - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Brett, do you think it's worth upgrading from the SP4 for heavy usage (Adobe, SolidWorks) or should I get the Surface Book instead? I have the i5 w/8GB RAM and it's getting kind of limiting. At least when it comes to memory (SolidWorks keeps bugging me with low RAM warnings all the time)Or perhaps the XPS 15 would be a better choice?
Brett Howse - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Upgrading from SP4 to SP isn't something I would recommend to everyone, but you're in a situation where you needed a faster SP4 anyway. There's a big jump (as I'm sure you saw) from the i5 SP4 to this i7 model. Obviously the XPS 15 is much bigger, and has way more GPU, but you lose the portability.As much as this is an incremental upgrade over the 4, it's a lot of very nice small changes.
I can't recommend the Surface Book right now only because it's really in need of a refresh - especially the GPU - but I do like the Book very much if you need more performance and battery life. I'd hold off though and see after it gets an update.
Laxaa - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
I'll probably wait for a Book-refresh before I make a decision. The dGPU would probably be nice to have, and hopefully they can cram a Pascal-series GPU into the base.jrs77 - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
If it wasn't for the spysoftware named Windows 10 I'd probably would get an i5-based Surface Pro.yhselp - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
1.4 GHz on the CPU and 750 MHz on the GPU for sustained loads - expected, normal, but still somehow disappointing. You're essentially getting a very low-clocked dual-core CPU paired with about 580 GFLOPS of GPU with up to 100 GB/s memory bandwidth, if my amateur calculations are not entirely idiotic. Of course, said CPU having hyper-threading, AVX, L4 cache, and the latest Intel microarchitecture, certainly helps.I wonder what the m3-7Y30 in the entry model is capable of under a sustain load. I'd suspect about 550 MHz on the CPU and about 240 GFLOPS for the GPU.
BrokenCrayons - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Wikipedia has some information regarding the performance of the GPUs in question here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HD_and_Iris_Gr...
To summarize quickly, the 615 is rated at 345.6 - 403.2 GFLOPS and the 640 is capable of 729.6 - 806.4 GFLOPS, but that excludes variables specific to the Surface Pro in question.
Eliadbu - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Those absurd prices and base specs are so bad and the lack of ports. Also the fact that the keyboard and pen are purchased separately, it feels like Microsoft are going with their heads against the wall. Better wait for Eve-V value and the thinking of what the user needs are so ahead.zeeBomb - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Awesome write-up!ZipSpeed - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
I bought a Surface Pro 4 last year thinking it could replace my iPad Gen 4 and 2010 Macbook Air in one fell swoop. Needless to say, I couldn't get use to the size of the device in tablet mode, and it wasn't very steady on my lap when I used the kickstand & type cover. I decided to return it, and even now, I'm still using my old (and slow) iPad and MBA as I continue my search.ivan.lazarenko - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Brett, thank you for the great review! This evolution approach for new Microsoft Surface Pro is a pretty lame version of what the fans were expecting to be a true successor, the real Surface Pro 5You might like this video hits like the last nail in the coffin and is funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sC82vnR7A
UtilityMax - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
I have never been fan of a "laptop" that's as unstable on your laps as the Surface Pro 4, and a "tablet" that's as thick as heavy as the Surface Pro, and with such relatively poor touch GUI and the lack of much tablet apps. In other words, it was a poor laptop, and a poor tablet. The new one looks like more of the same. I'd rather by myself a Lenovo Yoga 700 or 900-series ultra-tin laptops foldable keyboard (yes, real keyboard, not keyboard "covers")serendip - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Unfortunately yes, most tablets make poor laptops. Large Windows tablets also make poor tablets because they're heavy and Windows still isn't touch friendly. I'm a masochist who loves traveling light so I don't mind rocking a cheap Teclast Windows tablet. I couldn't justify spending on a Surface when it costs so much and it doesn't know what it is.damianrobertjones - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Why does it have to be defined as either one?mkozakewich - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Okay, so there's never been anything more than rhetoric flying around about the pens. "Oh, it's so much better now!" It sounds good, but then I also hear people swear by the Apple Pencil. Is it possible to benchmark those kinds of things? Would it be possible for you to measure activation forces various pens, as well as maybe latency and pressure-levels-per-gram-of-force?Also, was the original Type Cover Alcantara? I haven't seen a word of it, but that material really surprised me when I first encountered it. It seems like it couldn't have been, because everyone is going gaga over this iteration.
Brett Howse - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
I haven't used the Apple Pencil for a while now, but it seems like both are pretty close in terms of usability. We can measure some of the things you mentioned, but not all, at least without new equipment which would have limited value outside of testing a stylus. But I don't have the Apple Pencil to compare it against anyway.The original Type Cover was not Alcantara, although they did release a Signature version with the synthetic fabric after the Surface Pro 4 launched.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
About AnandTechA Message from Our Founder, Anand Shimpi
We are motivated by one thing and one thing only: doing right by you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AWESOME!
Can you please investigate my claims that this Laptop is using a Gov't Sponsored Spyware Platform "OR" provide "ANY" EVIDENCE that these claims are incorrect without simply deleting my posts without explanation?
I will gladly provide hundreds of examples of spyware/extortionware and malware if you like
Can't wait for an HONEST review
THANKS!
Bullwinkle J Moose
mrbofus - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
"But it seems like wasted space to offer a mini DisplayPort connecter over a USB-C port which could easily handle DisplayPort duties (and so much more). But it seems like wasted space to offer a mini DisplayPort connecter over a USB-C port which could easily handle DisplayPort duties (and so much more). "It would also be nice if they got rid of the proprietary power connector and used USB-C. Two full USB-C ports and a USB-A port would have been a perfect port combination, in my opinion.
simard57 - Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - link
as someone that trips over the power cable too often, I appreciate the magnetic connector.do agree with the comment regarding replacing Mini Display Port with USB-C but that would be dependent on cost impact.
Gunbuster - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Can you test Wi-Fi with Bluetooth in use? I'm wondering if they ever fixed the (extra) poor performance with it doing both...KPOM - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
The lack of USB-C is puzzling. It is clearly the port of the future and could replace both the data and charging ports. At least replace the mDP port with USB-C.UtilityMax - Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - link
Microsoft is historically known to be very bad at expecting revolutions in computing that everyone else had been predicting. Case in point, how Microsoft "missed" the rise of the WWW in the 1990s and then played catch-up with arguably mediocre software companies like Netscape and Sun Microsystems (both RIP). Or how Microsoft was caught napping as Apple and Google developed the class-leading smartphone OSes.damianrobertjones - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link
...While you're ignoring the many successes.S Seangatith - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
Thank you for a very nice review. In my opinion, the 4GB Ram for today hardware is totally inappropriate. They should have at least 8GB with 64bit Windows 10.UtilityMax - Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - link
4GB is just fine for a business PC if you don't open 30 tabs inside of Firefox.Visual - Monday, June 26, 2017 - link
Perhaps it is indeed "just fine", but the below-$30 difference an OEM saves from it just makes a bad impression...damianrobertjones - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link
2Gb ram with 32Gb eMMC, for windows, is inappropriate.whereisthembpreview - Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - link
Where is the macbook pro with touchbar review?Jodiuh - Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - link
Please mention whether displays on devices use pwm going forward. :/Rene23 - Tuesday, July 4, 2017 - link
Did (can?) anyone test if the new Surface pen produces tilt values on a the Surface Pro 3?fikester1 - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - link
Did you happen to test whether the screen jitters under high heat load? A substantial portion of Surface Pro 4 users have reported an unserviceable recurring hardware defect in which the screen shakes after heated and refurbished replacements develop the same problem. Not resetting the computer, nor rolling back drivers fixes the problem once it starts.