Seriously tho; console manufacturers used to subsidize whole new architectures with their consoles. Now they make you buy it twice just to keep up. Suckers.
Those dimensions are surprising because at least from the images they showed the One X appears considerably smaller than the One S, but according to the dimensions its actually wider and deeper, with only a small reduction in height.
I don't think many people will buy one at $500, but for that performance level in the footprint, it really is a great piece of hardware.
That's not true. The original PS4 was ~41% faster in terms of raw GPU power, slightly slower on the CPU side, and they both had roughly the same total bandwidth (as long as developers were capable of using eSRAM properly). The new XBOX is ~43% faster than the PS4 Pro in terms of raw GPU power, again is faster on the CPU side, and has FAR more bandwidth - roughly 50% more! So yeah, the gap is actually larger in favor of the XBOX this time...
Does that mean we'll see a massive gap in terms of real-world graphics? Generally speaking I'd say no. There wasn't a night-and-day difference between the XB1 and PS4. Not if the developers are clever. You render at a slightly lower internal resolution and scale up, for example. But I suspect we will see some games (Forza, for example) that really show what they can do at 4K60.
How does this make the PS4 Pro look bad? Yes it's a bit more powerful, that's to be expected a year later. It's $100 more expensive and yes you get the UHD Blu-Ray for the tens of people clamoring for those, but I fail to see how this makes the PS4 Pro look bad.
BC the extra year will be worth the wait for those looking to upgrade. The PS4 PRO is a bit of a let down. Not enough of a bump. It's enough for it to flirt occasionally with 4k. More important though is HDR, and post processing. It's not that its a bad upgrade but the new XBOX provides a 10% cpu bump, 43% bump in GPU power, and 50% bump in RAM over the PS4 PRO. This enables it to actually render decently in 4k. The PS4 uses a tiled/checkerboard frame rendering to achieve this. More often than not, its just 1080p upscaled. Just like people complained when the XBone wasn't actually strong enough to render in 1080 and mostly stuck to 720 or other odd resolutions and then upscaling, the PS4 PRO finds itself in the same spot regards to 4k. I'm not spending my cash on either just yet. I can wait for a price drop bc it's not like games will be exclusive to these refreshed consoles. Games will continue to be built to the lowest common denominator (xbox one original) for multiplatform. Console exclusive will be another thing. For now my money will go to a Switch. Need my portable gaming fix. Specifically, I need my Zelda fix.
LMAO, you realize this is the 3rd Xbox...the 3rd one. It took 3 attempts to compete with the PS4 and yeah its slightly more powerful, but once the Ryzen revision is out and its SOC variant, the PS5 will blow it away.
It would look bad if selling for same or higher price... but as it is, I don't think so.
It is cheaper (and I wouldn't be surprised to see another price drop at the time X1X is released), Sony has been pumping good exclusives for some time now, and it is more likely you know people who already have PS4 (and want to game with them).
Plus, PS4 exclusives are not available on PC, which makes PS4 natural choice for PC gamers (who want to have console sidekick).
Historically, weaker consoles are often winning. PS1 was weaker than N64. PS2 was weaker than original Xbox. Wii was weakest one in that generation. Other elements play more important role than raw power, when it comes to consoles. I think MS will need clean start to get on top again, it will be very hard for them otherwise, as long as they both lean on PS4/X1 foundations... But we will see.
So if I got this right that console generation is dictated by CPU and not GPU? It really says a lot about CPU stagnation, or the lack of push to use more CPU (AI, physics etc) that we got two GPU upgrades within a single console generation. It used to be that a mid-cycle upgrade was mostly just a die-shrink.
Until recently a new generation was the one that managed to break game compatibility with the previous one suggesting some major changes under the hood. Now, as the console market matured, we'll get lots of incremental updates similar to what PCs offer. You will be able to play older and newer games with varying degrees of success (maybe slower, maybe faster). I think the "generation" has become a pretty arbitrary thing right now but we'll see what comes in 2 years.
It's dictated by game compatibility. All games, past and future, will be compatible with both consoles. There will (should) be no games, ever, that only works with the other. Hence the same generation.
Sony boss said, around the time of PS4 release, that there might never be PS5.
I think that really means we will be seeing updates rather than new platforms. I also expect that at some point support for older systems will become optional. When next PS is released, I can see Sony insisting on all games running on PS4Pro and new PS, while original PS4 support will be left to developers to decide. I also wouldn't be surprised if devs will be allowed to make lesser version of game for older console - not just in visuals and frame rate, but also players count in multiplayer, smaller maps... stuff like that.
No, I am quite sure Ryan meant both a new CPU and new GPU. If anything, GPUs are most relevant in consoles. The Xbox Two (unless it switches to Nvidia) will presumably have a Vega GPU, presumably Vega 11, if it is released in ~2 years. If it takes 3+ they might use Navi.
It's next-gen but positioned as a mid-cycle upgrade for marketing reasons. It's been 4 years, which is short but not unheard of between console generations. It's roughly 4X the GPU. 50% more RAM. Yes, it's not a whole new architecture, but it's at least as big of an improvement, relatively speaking, as there was from the OG Xbox to the 360.
Next gen xbox will be a zen cpu and vega gpu, obvious is obvious. Still don't see how this will run games in 4k, the rx480 has similar tflop numbers yet its 4k performance is... well you know. Maybe they'll set the detail to low and hope for 30fps?
Why do people find this so confusing? The Scorpio is about four times as powerful as the Xbox One. 4k is four times the resolution of 1080p. For games that ran at 1080p on the Xbox One, they should run at the same settings with similar framerates at 4k. I honestly think pushing 4k is ridiculous, but I guess it might be easier to market than higher settings at 1080p with 60fps.
Even after trashing Sony for doing the same with PS4 Pro. Most Xbox games run at 720p, so even 4x that gets us nowhere near 4k. They will do checkerboard and tiling and any other trick they can, but it's not going to be an equal to a 1080ti, ever, which is almost the only card that solidly and consistently does 4k at 60+ fps
It's kind of unrealistic to expect a $500 console to compete with a GPU that costs $700 on its own, not taking into account the cost of the CPU, RAM, PSU, motherboard, case, etc etc. Top end PC gaming hardware will always be far more advanced than a current gen console It will be at least another generation (and maybe two) before the mainstream consoles are delivering real 4K gaming.
I'm wondering how much AMD is getting screwed here considering this thing has the equivalent of a $400 video card (minus the GDDR5 that won't be supplied by AMD, likely a $300 GPU)
Microsoft is either substantially subsidizing this thing or AMD is making razor thin margins on this contract.
I believe that Scorpio could run 4k60Hz with medium/high (compared with the PC versions and low/medium/high/ultra) settings on most of the games. The gpu is powerful enough (~10% better compute and ~40% more bandwidth than a 480). But, of course, they will go with 1080p/60Hz and upscale on the most demanding games (or dynamic scaling etc.). It's not like the original Xbox One was 1080p/60Hz, more like 900p/30Hz or 720p/60Hz or worse...
If you call a MS XBOX a "beast", I wonder how we should call our own GTX 1080/TI SLI machines which cost thousands of euros just to buy the individual components.
TITANOMECHANAE would be an apt name for them if you consider a console a "beast" IMO.
I had no idea they dropped the PSU wattage down to 120W for the S. Is that really an indication of the power it used being significantly lower than the original XB1 or was its external PSU just rated far in excess of its consumption needs?
No. Windows is $100, which leaves you with $400 for a case, motherboard, psu, memory, gpu, and cpu. We will get a lot closer after the Ryzen APUS come out, but I doubt those will have the GPU power this console has. To get a similarly performant PC you are looking at $600-700 minimum.
I just build out a $470 gaming rig on NewEgg with a Nvidia 1060 6GB, AMD FX-4300, 8GB ram, case, cpu, mobo.
So I can get close. Add in $150 for Windows, Keyboard, Mouse, and even a XBox controller and I've got a gaming rig that is actually more powerful than a XB1X.
Well... 1060 is a bit bellow 4TF, X1X is 6TF, almost on level with 1070. I think. CPU is more powerful but consoles' games seem to be doing multi-treading better than Windows... plus, most PC games don't favor AMD CPUs... and then, consoles platforms are easier to optimize for than general purpose Windows. At least until devs really start squeezing out bits and pixels out of DX12.
I will be surprised if you get games running on same res, fps and level of details as on X1X.
But the thing is, you can do other things on PC, while playing all the new Xbox games, too... this is major weakness of X1X. If anyone has gameable PC, X1X doesn't make much sense. All MS exclusives are coming to Windows, and 3rd party games are usually multiplatforms, rarely/never Xbox exclusives.
I don't remember the last time I built a new PC with all of the components. I typically buy a new mid-range graphics card every 2 - 3 years and a new processor every 6 or 7 years. So I could have a gaming PC that outperforms the new Xbox for $200 or $250.
That's true, too. I have recently replaced R9280x with 1070, and killed most reasons I could have to get X1X. Rest of PC is based around Haswell i7, 16GB RAM... some SSDs have sneaked in in the past 12 - 18 months... that's it, really. Mostly due to slow progress on CPU development side, can't find a reason to build complete box.
Poor X1X, nice as it is, really has a hard road in front of it. Not only competing with populist-choice PS4, but also with Windows sibling.
With the Xbox One X (Scorpio) on the horizon I've heard a lot of talk about teraflops and how the One X will perform the same as a 1070 because they are close in terms of teraflops. I'm going to try and shed some light on the subject.
First off, what is a teraflop? Well, it's a measure of floating point operations per second. Or in layman's terms "how fast a GPU can do math." So that means higher numbers are better, right? The higher the number the faster the device can add, subtract and multiply numbers.
Well not exactly. Teraflops are really only a good measurement of performance if you're only running complex math and doing nothing else (think bitcoin mining or physics simulations).
For example: The rx 480 has 5.8 Tflops and is a pretty capable GPU. However, the 980Ti only has 5.6 Tflops. Now wait a second. The 980Ti wrecks the 480 in any gaming benchmark. How come a GPU with a lower Teraflop rating can outperform one with a higher rating?
To quote EuroGamer:
Teraflops are a very basic measure of computational power, separate and distinct from all other aspects of GPU design.
Teraflops really have very little to do with gaming performance, because there are lots of other things that impact gaming performance (vRAM bandwidth, cache, etc).
In short, the Xbox One X probably won't perform on the same level as a 1070. The One X has 6 Tflops, but seeing how the 480/580 (which is very similar to the One X's GPU) stacks up against the 1070 we can't reasonably expect the One X to do much better. ==========================================================================
Please note that NVIDIA TFLOP ratings are using NVIDIA's base clock while AMD's results are using their "up to" peak clock. While interesting to see, you should really be comparing only NVIDIA TFLOPS to NVIDIA TFLOPS.
UNQUOTE ===================================================================== Your console's TFLOP rating is not comparable to NVIDIA TFLOP rating. (AMD artificially overinflates their GPU TFLOP ratings to make them look good).
I'm not sure why TFLOPs should matter at all. The vast majority of people will buy a console and use it to play games. The specs and computational capabilities are meaningless to everyone that doesn't have a bone (XBOne?) to pick because of console brand loyalty or some PC owner personal insecurity. In short, there's no case to rest because there's no case worth making and no point to prove. Anyone looking for amusement is going to buy what they want and then shut up and play video games while nerds like us have pinching and hair pulling fights over a manufacturer's meaningless hardware specs.
Seriously, the only reason to choose one console over the other is exclusives, which is an area Microsoft has struggled with the last few years, which is one of if not the biggest reason that Sony has vastly outsold Microsoft over the last several years in the console space
Seriously, while you may bring up a valid point about TFLOPS, it's obfuscated by your crazy ranting and hate. Just speak plainly. Leave all the ALL CAP WORDS and other =======WEIRD===== crap out of it.
Exactly! Just case in point : The P4 pro which also is based on a similar AMD GPU (A lower clocked 480) performs at around 4 Teraflops, which also the Geforce 1060 does. But when people have done comparisons to PC they have found it to be a bit slower than the older and much slower 970. The 1060 is about the same level as the 980. So with the Xbox One X (with a similar GPU to the PS4 Pro, but faster and more recent) and with 6 Terfaflops Vs the 1070;s 6.5 Teraflops it maybe will reach the 1060 level(like the 980)? That isn't so shabby! But it will mean that i won't even be capable of running 1440p at 60 FPS(which needs a 1070 or better). But it may enable better graphic details settings/functions and/or 60 FPS at 1080p non-scaled!
This is what has me curious and makes it interesting. Take the RX 580 as the baseline RX 570 SP = 2048 (32 CU's) -11% less RX 580 SP = 2304 (36 CU's) Scorpio = 2560 (40 CU's) 10% More
RX 570 = 1168Mhz ~ 1244MHz RX cards tend to stay maxed likely only 7.1% slower vs 580 which also means it can run 5.7% faster than scorpio. RX 580 = 1257Mhz ~ 1340MHz Scorpio = 1172MHz -6.7% ~ -12.5% slower
RX570 TU's = 128 16 CU's less 11% less RX 580 TU's = 144 Scorpio = No info but function of # CU's so 160? 16 CU's more 9% more ROP's are the same across the RX 470-580 so don't think that's any different. Even Fury had only 32 I believe.
In Anandtech's previous review the 570 benefited from faster memory while the 580 had same as the 480. They allude that more bandwidth would help the card a lot. Scorpio has 12GB 50% more but runs slower than the 570 @ 6.8 vs 7 but benefits from a 384bit wide bus. I think this is the kicker that makes any comparison difficult at best. PS4 Pro has and odd 8+1GB memory system which make it difficult to directly compare as well.
Then there is the manufacturing process. Gloflo 14nm vs TSMC 16. What diff does that make? It would be interesting to dig into this even more and see if a educated guess could be made to extrapolate the performance and see how close to actual performance when it lands.
Another test I'd like to run is to test these cards including the 1060 with an AMD cpu. One that closest resembles Jaguar. It has shown time and time again that AMD CPU's(ZEN not included) handicap GPU's. I'd like to see if that 1060 advantage still exists or has the cpu curbed it.
Ultimately it will come down to what they put out for it to take advantage and if it does anything for older games. The ones that use dynamic scaling I'd like to see tested.
While neither of the refreshes are beasts like the PS3 and 360 were back in the day, they both still make fine improvements to the current gen. Since neither are a "New" Generation will the older versions of the consoles ultimately hold back the games? yeah, probably. OK, finished my covefe. need more.
Hope it's quite...I liked that the original Xbox One was fairly quiet, at least compared to the original PS4. Being actually slightly SMALLER than the S with 4x the GPU doesn't bode well...
Otherwise, pretty nice!
Hope it finally has a user replaceable drive, and will be nice to see what if anything it does for most games, but still, pretty cool.
Looks pretty good. I'll wait to hear about VR. I don't care about 4K gaming because my eyesight isn't good enough to justify paying attention to it, but I am curious about VR and whether or not it's going to survive this time around.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
88 Comments
Back to Article
coburn_c - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
XoneX, it's a palindrome.Seriously tho; console manufacturers used to subsidize whole new architectures with their consoles. Now they make you buy it twice just to keep up. Suckers.
Dr. Swag - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
That's not a palindrome, the "o" and "e" don't work together.Kjella - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
It is if you call it the X1X, sounds cheesy but hey... better than ultra extreme gaming OC blah blah edition.nathanddrews - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
"X-Bone X" rolls off the tongue, I think.Glad to see a strong commitment to native 4K, WCG, and HDR and also bringing forward original Xbox (Xbox 1, not X-Bone) titles.
phoenix_rizzen - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
When will the R version be released? ;)nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
I think it is a trend. When Sony releases PS4 Pro Slim, we will also have PS4PS :)Roland00Address - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
X Box One X can I just abbreviate it and call it xbox?ImSpartacus - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Brilliant.anandreader106 - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
I wonder if anyone at Microsoft thought of that.Alexvrb - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
You know that's exactly why they called it XB One X.0ldman79 - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
That was exactly what I was thinking of.Give it a couple more revisions and the abbreviation for the system will be XBOX.
Bobsy - Sunday, June 18, 2017 - link
Why do you think Ryan wrote this: "(ed: I’m convinced MS is trying to keep us from writing their console names in short-hand)"?DanNeely - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Did MS really regress the wifi from ac to n, or is that a typo in the table?Ryan Smith - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Typo in the table.Sttm - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Those dimensions are surprising because at least from the images they showed the One X appears considerably smaller than the One S, but according to the dimensions its actually wider and deeper, with only a small reduction in height.I don't think many people will buy one at $500, but for that performance level in the footprint, it really is a great piece of hardware.
Samus - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
And they went back to an internal power supply ala the O.G. XBOX!Alexvrb - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
The size is definitely impressive given the horsepower and more powerful internal PSU (compared to the low-watt PSU in the One S).Morawka - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
whats that U.2 Looking port beside the ODD Sata connection?The PS4 Pro is sure looking bad right about now when compared to this beast. It's interesting they didn't show any VR use cases in the promo video
KamiOni - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Looks like power due to no other obvious power connectors. PS4 did something similar.ovnr - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Yep. It's even labelled "GND" and "12V" above it (upside down), and the 12V trace runs right into a sense resistor.Flunk - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Not much, it's actually less than the difference in specs between the original Xbox One and PS4 (but reversed, obviously).Alexvrb - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
That's not true. The original PS4 was ~41% faster in terms of raw GPU power, slightly slower on the CPU side, and they both had roughly the same total bandwidth (as long as developers were capable of using eSRAM properly). The new XBOX is ~43% faster than the PS4 Pro in terms of raw GPU power, again is faster on the CPU side, and has FAR more bandwidth - roughly 50% more! So yeah, the gap is actually larger in favor of the XBOX this time...Does that mean we'll see a massive gap in terms of real-world graphics? Generally speaking I'd say no. There wasn't a night-and-day difference between the XB1 and PS4. Not if the developers are clever. You render at a slightly lower internal resolution and scale up, for example. But I suspect we will see some games (Forza, for example) that really show what they can do at 4K60.
fanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
How does this make the PS4 Pro look bad? Yes it's a bit more powerful, that's to be expected a year later. It's $100 more expensive and yes you get the UHD Blu-Ray for the tens of people clamoring for those, but I fail to see how this makes the PS4 Pro look bad.Manch - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
BC the extra year will be worth the wait for those looking to upgrade. The PS4 PRO is a bit of a let down. Not enough of a bump. It's enough for it to flirt occasionally with 4k. More important though is HDR, and post processing. It's not that its a bad upgrade but the new XBOX provides a 10% cpu bump, 43% bump in GPU power, and 50% bump in RAM over the PS4 PRO. This enables it to actually render decently in 4k. The PS4 uses a tiled/checkerboard frame rendering to achieve this. More often than not, its just 1080p upscaled. Just like people complained when the XBone wasn't actually strong enough to render in 1080 and mostly stuck to 720 or other odd resolutions and then upscaling, the PS4 PRO finds itself in the same spot regards to 4k. I'm not spending my cash on either just yet. I can wait for a price drop bc it's not like games will be exclusive to these refreshed consoles. Games will continue to be built to the lowest common denominator (xbox one original) for multiplatform. Console exclusive will be another thing. For now my money will go to a Switch. Need my portable gaming fix. Specifically, I need my Zelda fix.Konceptz804 - Friday, August 25, 2017 - link
LMAO, you realize this is the 3rd Xbox...the 3rd one. It took 3 attempts to compete with the PS4 and yeah its slightly more powerful, but once the Ryzen revision is out and its SOC variant, the PS5 will blow it away.nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
It would look bad if selling for same or higher price... but as it is, I don't think so.It is cheaper (and I wouldn't be surprised to see another price drop at the time X1X is released), Sony has been pumping good exclusives for some time now, and it is more likely you know people who already have PS4 (and want to game with them).
Plus, PS4 exclusives are not available on PC, which makes PS4 natural choice for PC gamers (who want to have console sidekick).
Historically, weaker consoles are often winning. PS1 was weaker than N64. PS2 was weaker than original Xbox. Wii was weakest one in that generation. Other elements play more important role than raw power, when it comes to consoles. I think MS will need clean start to get on top again, it will be very hard for them otherwise, as long as they both lean on PS4/X1 foundations... But we will see.
plopke - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
i never owned a XBOX one but why does the table says it has a internal PSU ? Don't they come with a MASSIVE power brick?plopke - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
So should it not be external , internal , external?Ryan Smith - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
The XB1X PSU is internal, like the XB1S. Only the original XB1 is external.wr3zzz - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
The article kept referring Xbox One X as a mid-cycle upgrade but Scorpio was considered next-gen. So which is it?Ryan Smith - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
It's a mid-cycle upgrade. It's the existing console architecture expanded for much more performance.When it's the Xbox Two using a new CPU architecture, then you will have a new generation.
wr3zzz - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
So if I got this right that console generation is dictated by CPU and not GPU? It really says a lot about CPU stagnation, or the lack of push to use more CPU (AI, physics etc) that we got two GPU upgrades within a single console generation. It used to be that a mid-cycle upgrade was mostly just a die-shrink.wr3zzz - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Also if Xbox One X is not next-gen then its games are not DX12?close - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Until recently a new generation was the one that managed to break game compatibility with the previous one suggesting some major changes under the hood. Now, as the console market matured, we'll get lots of incremental updates similar to what PCs offer. You will be able to play older and newer games with varying degrees of success (maybe slower, maybe faster).I think the "generation" has become a pretty arbitrary thing right now but we'll see what comes in 2 years.
ajp_anton - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It's dictated by game compatibility. All games, past and future, will be compatible with both consoles. There will (should) be no games, ever, that only works with the other. Hence the same generation.nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
Sony boss said, around the time of PS4 release, that there might never be PS5.I think that really means we will be seeing updates rather than new platforms. I also expect that at some point support for older systems will become optional. When next PS is released, I can see Sony insisting on all games running on PS4Pro and new PS, while original PS4 support will be left to developers to decide. I also wouldn't be surprised if devs will be allowed to make lesser version of game for older console - not just in visuals and frame rate, but also players count in multiplayer, smaller maps... stuff like that.
Santoval - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
No, I am quite sure Ryan meant both a new CPU and new GPU. If anything, GPUs are most relevant in consoles. The Xbox Two (unless it switches to Nvidia) will presumably have a Vega GPU, presumably Vega 11, if it is released in ~2 years. If it takes 3+ they might use Navi.drothgery - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
It's next-gen but positioned as a mid-cycle upgrade for marketing reasons. It's been 4 years, which is short but not unheard of between console generations. It's roughly 4X the GPU. 50% more RAM. Yes, it's not a whole new architecture, but it's at least as big of an improvement, relatively speaking, as there was from the OG Xbox to the 360.shabby - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Next gen xbox will be a zen cpu and vega gpu, obvious is obvious.Still don't see how this will run games in 4k, the rx480 has similar tflop numbers yet its 4k performance is... well you know. Maybe they'll set the detail to low and hope for 30fps?
mr_tawan - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I guess it could run Mario Kart at 4K/60fps just fine, I mean ... the first Mario Kart.Wait ... the game is not available in that console :/
Dizoja86 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Why do people find this so confusing? The Scorpio is about four times as powerful as the Xbox One. 4k is four times the resolution of 1080p. For games that ran at 1080p on the Xbox One, they should run at the same settings with similar framerates at 4k. I honestly think pushing 4k is ridiculous, but I guess it might be easier to market than higher settings at 1080p with 60fps.cknobman - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Here is the kicker Dizoja86 with the exception of very few titles dang near every game on XB1 does not run at 1080p resolution, LOL.6 TFLOPS is great and all but it will not be enough to push quality 4k graphics. Compromises will be made.
I won't be a day 1 or evey year 1 buyer of this. I'll wait for a nice solid price drop to around $300 before I buy in.
shabby - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Watch them say "oh we didn't mean every game will run at 4k native, we meant we will upscale every game to 4k"fanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Even after trashing Sony for doing the same with PS4 Pro. Most Xbox games run at 720p, so even 4x that gets us nowhere near 4k. They will do checkerboard and tiling and any other trick they can, but it's not going to be an equal to a 1080ti, ever, which is almost the only card that solidly and consistently does 4k at 60+ fpsgerz1219 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It's kind of unrealistic to expect a $500 console to compete with a GPU that costs $700 on its own, not taking into account the cost of the CPU, RAM, PSU, motherboard, case, etc etc. Top end PC gaming hardware will always be far more advanced than a current gen console It will be at least another generation (and maybe two) before the mainstream consoles are delivering real 4K gaming.nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
With insane amount of optimization. But I think we will see this mostly from MS, 3rd party will make less effort, revert to up-scaling.Samus - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I'm wondering how much AMD is getting screwed here considering this thing has the equivalent of a $400 video card (minus the GDDR5 that won't be supplied by AMD, likely a $300 GPU)Microsoft is either substantially subsidizing this thing or AMD is making razor thin margins on this contract.
fanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
The specs are similar to an RX580, so more like $200 not $400.rarson - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It's an SoC, so it's one chip, what matters is the cost of the die.Also, you're discussing retail prices, it doesn't cost AMD $200 to manufacture a 580.
Flunk - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Xbox One X is a pretty confusing name, could have gone with any other letter.phoenix_rizzen - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Except R. ;)Mugur - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I believe that Scorpio could run 4k60Hz with medium/high (compared with the PC versions and low/medium/high/ultra) settings on most of the games. The gpu is powerful enough (~10% better compute and ~40% more bandwidth than a 480). But, of course, they will go with 1080p/60Hz and upscale on the most demanding games (or dynamic scaling etc.). It's not like the original Xbox One was 1080p/60Hz, more like 900p/30Hz or 720p/60Hz or worse...Manch - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Does this mean Crackdown is finally coming?Tyler_Durden_83 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Mind you, other websites are reporting that the X PSU is EXTERNAL, not internal.edzieba - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It quite clearly has a C8 ('figure-8') AC inlet, so an internal PSU.edzieba - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
(You can even just about make out the "100-240V AC" rating on the rear label)Ryan Smith - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Also, internal comes directly off of the spec sheet that Microsoft sent me.SunnyNW - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It is definitely confirmed to be internal.Achaios - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
If you call a MS XBOX a "beast", I wonder how we should call our own GTX 1080/TI SLI machines which cost thousands of euros just to buy the individual components.TITANOMECHANAE would be an apt name for them if you consider a console a "beast" IMO.
Achaios - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
QUOTE The memory feeding the beast has also gotten a great deal faster as well UNQUOTEBeast [sic]
Hurr Durr - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I propose "butthurt at the waste of money".nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
Well, there are beasts and beasts. Tiger is a beast, even if it pales to T-Rex. In consoles world, X1X is alpha, once released.Ironchef3500 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
was wishing for $399Meteor2 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
At least it's not suffering from Apple-style arbitrary price inflation.fanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
It's a 100% price increase over their current consoles. That's pretty inflationary....Manch - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
It's a 0% increase over the original launch price. I do wish it was cheaper myself but that goes without saying.BrokenCrayons - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I had no idea they dropped the PSU wattage down to 120W for the S. Is that really an indication of the power it used being significantly lower than the original XB1 or was its external PSU just rated far in excess of its consumption needs?Meteor2 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Good questionravyne - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Typo in the table -- Xbox One/ One S have 12 enabled CUs, not 16.zodiacfml - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
can a 500 dollar gaming pc compete with this?IanHagen - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
But, but... but... you can have a true 4K machine for true men for only $3000! /sfanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
No. Windows is $100, which leaves you with $400 for a case, motherboard, psu, memory, gpu, and cpu. We will get a lot closer after the Ryzen APUS come out, but I doubt those will have the GPU power this console has. To get a similarly performant PC you are looking at $600-700 minimum.cknobman - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I just build out a $470 gaming rig on NewEgg with a Nvidia 1060 6GB, AMD FX-4300, 8GB ram, case, cpu, mobo.So I can get close. Add in $150 for Windows, Keyboard, Mouse, and even a XBox controller and I've got a gaming rig that is actually more powerful than a XB1X.
Yeah, its not that hard.
nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
Well... 1060 is a bit bellow 4TF, X1X is 6TF, almost on level with 1070. I think. CPU is more powerful but consoles' games seem to be doing multi-treading better than Windows... plus, most PC games don't favor AMD CPUs... and then, consoles platforms are easier to optimize for than general purpose Windows. At least until devs really start squeezing out bits and pixels out of DX12.I will be surprised if you get games running on same res, fps and level of details as on X1X.
But the thing is, you can do other things on PC, while playing all the new Xbox games, too... this is major weakness of X1X. If anyone has gameable PC, X1X doesn't make much sense. All MS exclusives are coming to Windows, and 3rd party games are usually multiplatforms, rarely/never Xbox exclusives.
sorten - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I don't remember the last time I built a new PC with all of the components. I typically buy a new mid-range graphics card every 2 - 3 years and a new processor every 6 or 7 years. So I could have a gaming PC that outperforms the new Xbox for $200 or $250.nikon133 - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
That's true, too. I have recently replaced R9280x with 1070, and killed most reasons I could have to get X1X. Rest of PC is based around Haswell i7, 16GB RAM... some SSDs have sneaked in in the past 12 - 18 months... that's it, really. Mostly due to slow progress on CPU development side, can't find a reason to build complete box.Poor X1X, nice as it is, really has a hard road in front of it. Not only competing with populist-choice PS4, but also with Windows sibling.
James5mith - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Xb.O.X.That's my story and I'm sticking to it.a
Achaios - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
With the Xbox One X (Scorpio) on the horizon I've heard a lot of talk about teraflops and how the One X will perform the same as a 1070 because they are close in terms of teraflops. I'm going to try and shed some light on the subject.First off, what is a teraflop? Well, it's a measure of floating point operations per second. Or in layman's terms "how fast a GPU can do math." So that means higher numbers are better, right? The higher the number the faster the device can add, subtract and multiply numbers.
Well not exactly. Teraflops are really only a good measurement of performance if you're only running complex math and doing nothing else (think bitcoin mining or physics simulations).
For example: The rx 480 has 5.8 Tflops and is a pretty capable GPU. However, the 980Ti only has 5.6 Tflops. Now wait a second. The 980Ti wrecks the 480 in any gaming benchmark. How come a GPU with a lower Teraflop rating can outperform one with a higher rating?
To quote EuroGamer:
Teraflops are a very basic measure of computational power, separate and distinct from all other aspects of GPU design.
Teraflops really have very little to do with gaming performance, because there are lots of other things that impact gaming performance (vRAM bandwidth, cache, etc).
In short, the Xbox One X probably won't perform on the same level as a 1070. The One X has 6 Tflops, but seeing how the 480/580 (which is very similar to the One X's GPU) stacks up against the 1070 we can't reasonably expect the One X to do much better.
==========================================================================
QQ
Achaios - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
In addition to the above to quote ANANDTECH:QUOTE=ANANDTECH
Please note that NVIDIA TFLOP ratings are using NVIDIA's base clock while AMD's results are using their "up to" peak clock. While interesting to see, you should really be comparing only NVIDIA TFLOPS to NVIDIA TFLOPS.
UNQUOTE
=====================================================================
Your console's TFLOP rating is not comparable to NVIDIA TFLOP rating. (AMD artificially overinflates their GPU TFLOP ratings to make them look good).
I rest my case.
BrokenCrayons - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
I'm not sure why TFLOPs should matter at all. The vast majority of people will buy a console and use it to play games. The specs and computational capabilities are meaningless to everyone that doesn't have a bone (XBOne?) to pick because of console brand loyalty or some PC owner personal insecurity. In short, there's no case to rest because there's no case worth making and no point to prove. Anyone looking for amusement is going to buy what they want and then shut up and play video games while nerds like us have pinching and hair pulling fights over a manufacturer's meaningless hardware specs.fanofanand - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
But epeen!Seriously, the only reason to choose one console over the other is exclusives, which is an area Microsoft has struggled with the last few years, which is one of if not the biggest reason that Sony has vastly outsold Microsoft over the last several years in the console space
Manch - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
Seriously, while you may bring up a valid point about TFLOPS, it's obfuscated by your crazy ranting and hate. Just speak plainly. Leave all the ALL CAP WORDS and other =======WEIRD===== crap out of it.rarson - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
"In short, the Xbox One X probably won't perform on the same level as a 1070."The 1070 is a GPU and the Xbox One X chip is an SoC. Not to mention, it's being put into a console, not a PC.
So just like you talked about TFLOPS being distinct measurements, the usage of the silicon is distinct in both cases, and not directly comparable.
Magnus101 - Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - link
Exactly!Just case in point : The P4 pro which also is based on a similar AMD GPU (A lower clocked 480) performs at around 4 Teraflops, which also the Geforce 1060 does. But when people have done comparisons to PC they have found it to be a bit slower than the older and much slower 970. The 1060 is about the same level as the 980.
So with the Xbox One X (with a similar GPU to the PS4 Pro, but faster and more recent) and with 6 Terfaflops Vs the 1070;s 6.5 Teraflops it maybe will reach the 1060 level(like the 980)?
That isn't so shabby! But it will mean that i won't even be capable of running 1440p at 60 FPS(which needs a 1070 or better). But it may enable better graphic details settings/functions and/or 60 FPS at 1080p non-scaled!
Manch - Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - link
This is what has me curious and makes it interesting. Take the RX 580 as the baselineRX 570 SP = 2048 (32 CU's) -11% less
RX 580 SP = 2304 (36 CU's)
Scorpio = 2560 (40 CU's) 10% More
RX 570 = 1168Mhz ~ 1244MHz RX cards tend to stay maxed likely only 7.1% slower vs 580 which also means it can run 5.7% faster than scorpio.
RX 580 = 1257Mhz ~ 1340MHz
Scorpio = 1172MHz -6.7% ~ -12.5% slower
RX570 TU's = 128 16 CU's less 11% less
RX 580 TU's = 144
Scorpio = No info but function of # CU's so 160? 16 CU's more 9% more
ROP's are the same across the RX 470-580 so don't think that's any different. Even Fury had only 32 I believe.
In Anandtech's previous review the 570 benefited from faster memory while the 580 had same as the 480. They allude that more bandwidth would help the card a lot. Scorpio has 12GB 50% more but runs slower than the 570 @ 6.8 vs 7 but benefits from a 384bit wide bus. I think this is the kicker that makes any comparison difficult at best. PS4 Pro has and odd 8+1GB memory system which make it difficult to directly compare as well.
Then there is the manufacturing process. Gloflo 14nm vs TSMC 16. What diff does that make? It would be interesting to dig into this even more and see if a educated guess could be made to extrapolate the performance and see how close to actual performance when it lands.
Another test I'd like to run is to test these cards including the 1060 with an AMD cpu. One that closest resembles Jaguar. It has shown time and time again that AMD CPU's(ZEN not included) handicap GPU's. I'd like to see if that 1060 advantage still exists or has the cpu curbed it.
Ultimately it will come down to what they put out for it to take advantage and if it does anything for older games. The ones that use dynamic scaling I'd like to see tested.
While neither of the refreshes are beasts like the PS3 and 360 were back in the day, they both still make fine improvements to the current gen. Since neither are a "New" Generation will the older versions of the consoles ultimately hold back the games? yeah, probably. OK, finished my covefe. need more.
Wolfpup - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Hope it's quite...I liked that the original Xbox One was fairly quiet, at least compared to the original PS4. Being actually slightly SMALLER than the S with 4x the GPU doesn't bode well...Otherwise, pretty nice!
Hope it finally has a user replaceable drive, and will be nice to see what if anything it does for most games, but still, pretty cool.
sorten - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Looks pretty good. I'll wait to hear about VR. I don't care about 4K gaming because my eyesight isn't good enough to justify paying attention to it, but I am curious about VR and whether or not it's going to survive this time around.rubene66 - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
So it practically have an 580 that's it