It supports Rec.2020 and HDMI 2.0, but no mention of HDR or HDCP 2.2, so I guess we can forget about viewing, creating, or editing UHD-Bluray, UHD streaming, or even YouTube HDR content on this thing. Better add a couple hundred for a HDFury Integral...
I very much doubt the display is pentile, since it is aimed at the professional segment where graphic fidelity is everything, while pentile is a strictly cost-saving measure aimed at mainstream that does not recognize/appreciate quality as much.
well, "pentile" hasn't been used for years. Samsung migrated to "diamond matrix" which no longer includes the white pixels.
With a high enough PPI, there is nothing wrong with pentile. But it would be an issue on a monitor this big for sure, at this resolution.
Diamond matrix isn't a cost saving solution. It's currently used to make the blue pixels last longer, by making them bigger than the rest, since blue is by far the less efficient of the 3.
With that said, Samsung doesn't use diamond matrix for displays bigger than 8" as far as I know.
Let's say that your monitor washes out colors for example. So you take a picture of the monitor, upload it to your computer, and look at it on that same monitor.
Would you be unable to tell that the colors are washed out in the picture because you're looking at that picture on that same monitor that washes out colors anyway? No, actually you would be able to tell because the effect would be multiplied.
If a monitor has really good color reproduction, and someone takes a picture of it with a good camera, then even if your own monitor is inferior, you can still tell that it has good colors because the colors you see in the picture will be about as good as your monitor is capable of reproducing. Ie. red in the picture will be about as pure red as your monitor can display for example.
burn-in problem is solved. Modern OLED pixels use compensation methods, that measure level of degradation of OLED material as well as transistors, and correct every deviations.
Millions of people who have had OLED phones for the past 5 years or so? My old Galaxy Nexus didn't have burn in issues from the task bar even using it 2 years and I'm sure it has only gotten better.
I can't speak for all brands, but Samsung phones absolutely experience screen burn in. Ask anyone who uses the Maps app frequently. The UI will permanently burn into the screen.
As one of the few that use plasma TV as PC monitors, I recommend wait until OLED become more popular to see what happens. My plasma is a late-gen model that supposedly burn-in is no longer an issue but has some serious image retention that might as well be burn-in. Native Windows such as task bar is not an issue. Civilization 4 is absolutely the worst, as well as some older games but nothing compared to Civ4. Certain icons also leave a light mark, such as foobar2000 but not all icons do, and they usually go away after playing the statics for a few hours. Old Netflix used to leave its border lines as well but not the new Windows 10 Store app. Civ4 however have ruined my experience with plasma.
There is a solution to this. My IPS panel would get burn-in from time to time. So, I developed a good habit. Any time I walk away from my desktop for more than an hour, I turn off the monitor. Most of them have a push button for this ( on my monitor is on the lower-right corner ). Besides, it would save you a few dollars a month on your power bill plus being friendly to the environment. LCD's are nowhere near the old CRT's in power consumption, but still, if you're going to leave them on 24/7, it's going to cost you.
"Look it has full HDR color gamuts!" says INSERT PANEL MANUFACTURE. "Oh, so you can master HDR content on it, and view HDR content on it, and-" IPM: "Uhhh, I mean. Well, see the thing is..."
And for $3,500 too? WTF On earth is it that allows "TVs" to put out 1000nits or more but not "monitors". Seriously.
1000 nits is just peak brightness for highlights. the APL remains similar to SDR calibrated to 100-150 nits.
The biggest deal about HDR is the grading. grading past 100 nits makes colors look very different, even on displays that can "just" hit 400 nits peak brightness.
The backlight controls the brightness in traditional displays. That is why you can get some insane brightness off certain setups. For example, I've personally used a display that can do over 2000 nits of brightness and the best description I can give is that I feel like I'm getting a tan using it.
This would've had 3 nice graphs illustrating my point, but the awesome (/s) comment system wouldn't let me post the links... So happy Google image-searching?
This display needs a couple of things to really shine: higher brightness for HDR support, higher refresh rate using DP 1.3/1.4 and FreeSync support. I suspect that the brightness factor is due to the relatively immaturity of mass production OLED displays (at least compared to traditional LCD). The other two factors can be addressed with newer display controller boards. I'm really surprised by the lack of Freesync.
Price is still too high, very unjustified by OLED tech. LG 55 inch 4K OLED TV costs 1500$, so at this rate 30 inch costs 450$. Even if they use finer pixels, and price is doubled to 1000$, it is still far below 3500$
You have to remember that 55" Oled tv are has 25Hz real refress rates (the commersial 240Hz refress has nothing to do with real refress rates). This has 60... So over douple speed compared to tv. Also this has real colors and TV use quite crappy color system. So you don't compare comparable products in here.
Do you have a source on your claim that "240Hz" TVs only refresh at 25 HZ? Most TVs should refresh at 60 Hz, and some at 120 Hz and use black frame insertion and interpolation to reach those ridiculous numbers.
I suspect the price is actually high due to low panel yields. Dell is probably especially picky about what panels they build into their monitors.
LG OLED TVs, specifically the 2016 and 2017 models can accept a maximum input resolution and refresh of 4K60 4:4:4. The native display refresh rate is 120Hz, so content less than that is multiplied to 120Hz (or 100Hz for PAL).
Some LG OLED panels have been shown displaying up to 120fps video content natively in demos of HFR video.
LG cheats when it comes to OLEDs. To increase yields and lifespans, they don't actually use an RGB OLED panel. The entire OLED panel is nothing but white subpixels, on top of which they slap a colour filter grid like you'd see in an LCD panel.
The upside is that this technique reduced manufacturing complexity and cost and increased yields, which is why LG was able to keep making OLED TVs when every other company (including Samsung and Sony) stopped making them due to yield issues. The neutral part is that they still have the same advantages in terms of contrast ratio and respones time as an RGB OLED panel. The downside is that they're much less power efficient (due to all the light blocked by the filters) and don't have quite the same quality of colour as native RGB could achieve.
Thanks for the info ! The other day I was at a Best Buy store looking at some TV's. Maybe it's just me, but I thought the Samsung 4k with Quantum Dot looked a bit better than LG's with OLED. Even the top of the line Sony's 4k looked better. I know, it's subjective of course.
It's just you. The "Quantum dot" technology is just quantum dots used as a backlight with LCD filter over it, thus inheriting all the disadvantages of LCD - low response times and bad viewing angles, while gaining wider color gamut compared to WLED LCD, and longer lifespan compared to OLED.
However, when it comes to image quality, they will always be inferior in terms of contrast, response times and viewing angles.
The only way I'd consider buying this is if it uses an LG WOLED panel or if they have seriously improved the lifespan of blue OLEDs (enough that it matches up with red amd green) if this uses a Samsung Panel.
My last product with a Samsung OLED screen was tinted yellow after a couple of years, and I don't want to spend $3500 on a monitor that does the same thing.
Also, I know this isn't a consumer monitor but it seems like this could be HDR capable, and should beat the FALED LCD monitors pretty handily.
I really don't think OLED is ready for prime time and I don't think this monitor is a good idea. The more expensive it is the worse it gets. All the kinks with color changes over time, burn-in and lack of true RGB are what kill it for me. OLED makes some sense for TVs but not for monitors. I would still rather get my hands on an Eizo CG318-4K than pay anything really for this. Or I'd rather just wait to see how the new LCD technology that's coming out fares. I think it's going to close a lot of the gaps between LCD and OLEDs anyway.
LCD technology can never close the gap, because it relies on physical LCD crystals changing positions, which will always be slow compared to OLED, therefore the problem with bad viewing angles and slow response times will not go away. The advanced LCD displays employ techs like Overdrive that try to mask the slow response time, but at the cost of ghosting.
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Chaitanya - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Wouldnt mind seeing a 27" 1440p OLED monitor.ddriver - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
I doubt it would hurt anyone.Also a typo -> "Rhe UP3017Q has a special pixel-shifting technology to try and inhibit this."
nathanddrews - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Gotta start somewhere.It supports Rec.2020 and HDMI 2.0, but no mention of HDR or HDCP 2.2, so I guess we can forget about viewing, creating, or editing UHD-Bluray, UHD streaming, or even YouTube HDR content on this thing. Better add a couple hundred for a HDFury Integral...
Lama_32 - Friday, April 14, 2017 - link
A little big for my desk this one!27" would be nice -- Altough assuming this is a pentile Matrix Display the 4k resolution should be a sweetspot.
Kamamura - Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - link
I very much doubt the display is pentile, since it is aimed at the professional segment where graphic fidelity is everything, while pentile is a strictly cost-saving measure aimed at mainstream that does not recognize/appreciate quality as much.Kamus - Thursday, April 20, 2017 - link
well, "pentile" hasn't been used for years. Samsung migrated to "diamond matrix" which no longer includes the white pixels.With a high enough PPI, there is nothing wrong with pentile. But it would be an issue on a monitor this big for sure, at this resolution.
Diamond matrix isn't a cost saving solution. It's currently used to make the blue pixels last longer, by making them bigger than the rest, since blue is by far the less efficient of the 3.
With that said, Samsung doesn't use diamond matrix for displays bigger than 8" as far as I know.
zodiacfml - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
A bargain versus their 8k monitor but they seem not to give everything yet to this monitor. Expect a 120 Hz capable version next year.Kamus - Thursday, April 20, 2017 - link
This display costs less than the 8K one, and it should blow it away in any metric that matters. Not even a close contest actually.a higher refresh rate, BFI, and HDR support would make this a display that has perfect picture quality for just about any use case you can think off.
coolhardware - Friday, April 21, 2017 - link
Very true about 8K conventional vs 4K OLED.It is REALLY cool to finally see OLED desktop displays :-)
R0H1T - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Let me get them kidneys, draws "pitchforks" & scalpel.extide - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
No kidding... what I would do for one of these, omg, such an amazing display.Diji1 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
That image quality makes my Acer X34 IPS look terrible ;)bug77 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
If you're looking at that image on your Acer X34 IPS, it won't look any better than what the Acer X34 IPS can display ;)prophet001 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
lol!Too true. I wonder how many people look at pictures of monitors through their monitor and say "Wow that monitor looks so much better than mine!"
twtech - Friday, April 14, 2017 - link
That's actually not entirely true.Let's say that your monitor washes out colors for example. So you take a picture of the monitor, upload it to your computer, and look at it on that same monitor.
Would you be unable to tell that the colors are washed out in the picture because you're looking at that picture on that same monitor that washes out colors anyway? No, actually you would be able to tell because the effect would be multiplied.
If a monitor has really good color reproduction, and someone takes a picture of it with a good camera, then even if your own monitor is inferior, you can still tell that it has good colors because the colors you see in the picture will be about as good as your monitor is capable of reproducing. Ie. red in the picture will be about as pure red as your monitor can display for example.
stanleyipkiss - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Is image burn-in/retention that big of a problem on OLED? I usually leave everything on the screen 24/7.Meteor2 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Really?! Why?Eden-K121D - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Immigr CXantTristanSDX - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
burn-in problem is solved. Modern OLED pixels use compensation methods, that measure level of degradation of OLED material as well as transistors, and correct every deviations.Gothmoth - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
the problem is solved for permanent burn in effects but not temp burn in or image retention as it is called.you still see some after glow even on the latest OLED panels when an image is displayed for a longer time..
TristanSDX - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
with compensation, averge burn-in problem is reduced to 0.5% unevennesshttps://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijp/2013/839301/
guidryp - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
It is far from solved. You need to be careful.Check out any display model OLED TV or Phones, they have severe permanent burn in after a few months on display.
Clearly that is terrible usage. but just thing about the Windows Task bar on your screen for years.
dstarr3 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Burn-in is generally solved. Otherwise everyone would have the Windows taskbar burned into the bottom of their screens.guidryp - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Who is this everyone, who already own OLED monitors?Death666Angel - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Millions of people who have had OLED phones for the past 5 years or so? My old Galaxy Nexus didn't have burn in issues from the task bar even using it 2 years and I'm sure it has only gotten better.Spongie - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
I can't speak for all brands, but Samsung phones absolutely experience screen burn in. Ask anyone who uses the Maps app frequently. The UI will permanently burn into the screen.Kamus - Friday, April 21, 2017 - link
Been using my note 4 heavily for years now, there is no burn in.wr3zzz - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
As one of the few that use plasma TV as PC monitors, I recommend wait until OLED become more popular to see what happens. My plasma is a late-gen model that supposedly burn-in is no longer an issue but has some serious image retention that might as well be burn-in. Native Windows such as task bar is not an issue. Civilization 4 is absolutely the worst, as well as some older games but nothing compared to Civ4. Certain icons also leave a light mark, such as foobar2000 but not all icons do, and they usually go away after playing the statics for a few hours. Old Netflix used to leave its border lines as well but not the new Windows 10 Store app. Civ4 however have ruined my experience with plasma.cocochanel - Saturday, April 15, 2017 - link
There is a solution to this. My IPS panel would get burn-in from time to time. So, I developed a good habit. Any time I walk away from my desktop for more than an hour, I turn off the monitor. Most of them have a push button for this ( on my monitor is on the lower-right corner ). Besides, it would save you a few dollars a month on your power bill plus being friendly to the environment. LCD's are nowhere near the old CRT's in power consumption, but still, if you're going to leave them on 24/7, it's going to cost you.Frenetic Pony - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
"Look it has full HDR color gamuts!" says INSERT PANEL MANUFACTURE. "Oh, so you can master HDR content on it, and view HDR content on it, and-" IPM: "Uhhh, I mean. Well, see the thing is..."And for $3,500 too? WTF On earth is it that allows "TVs" to put out 1000nits or more but not "monitors". Seriously.
Diji1 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
I don't think you want to be 3 feet away from a 1000nit screen. Can't talk from experience though.Gothmoth - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
OLED displays just yet reach 1000 nits with the latest 2017 models.it´s not as if this is the norm for OLED displays.
OLED´s have in fact a problem with peak brightness..
hechacker1 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
You wouldn't, except in a very bright environment (outside). Or for peak HDR specular brightness.The Apple Watch has a 1000 nit screen for this reason.
Frenetic Pony - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Direct sunlight produces over 30k nits. 1k is absolutely nothing.Kamus - Friday, April 21, 2017 - link
1000 nits is just peak brightness for highlights. the APL remains similar to SDR calibrated to 100-150 nits.The biggest deal about HDR is the grading. grading past 100 nits makes colors look very different, even on displays that can "just" hit 400 nits peak brightness.
Kevin G - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
The backlight controls the brightness in traditional displays. That is why you can get some insane brightness off certain setups. For example, I've personally used a display that can do over 2000 nits of brightness and the best description I can give is that I feel like I'm getting a tan using it.Gothmoth - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
1000 nits oled?you may check you facts.....
fanofanand - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Rtings tested the LG b6 and got 787 nits sustained in a 10% window. They are getting there.Meteor2 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Nice to see USB Type-C being done properly, i.e. with DP and PD, enabling a one-cable connection to a MacBook Pro or similar.I don't quite get how it shows 100% Adobe RGB but 97.5% P3, given that the former covers much more of the human colour vision gamut.
ZeDestructor - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Neither AdobeRGB nor DCI-P3 are subsets of the other, so you can easily have 100% coverage of one and not the other.In theory Rec.2020 should cover both, and ACES2065-1 (ACES AP0, more reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Color_Encodi... should cover every visible colour, and then some.
ZeDestructor - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
This would've had 3 nice graphs illustrating my point, but the awesome (/s) comment system wouldn't let me post the links... So happy Google image-searching?ZeDestructor - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Maybe this'll work: https://i.imgur.com/jhkwthz.png ?Shitty line colouring and labeling, and the ACES AP0 triangle isn't shown in it's entirety either, but it is there
Meteor2 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Cheers. I'd recalled Adobe covering more of the human vision gamut but it's actually more like 50% v 45%.I just wish we could get to Rec 2020 already...
zepi - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Adobe RGB goes deeper greens than DCI-P3 and DCI-P3 does deeper reds than Adobe RGB.It is simply a pick your poison situation. Neither is really better than other unless you have a specific use case in mind.
bug77 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
P3 has "wider" reds, maybe that's the part this monitor won't cover? I can explain it very well, take a look at the CIE diagrams.Kevin G - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
This display needs a couple of things to really shine: higher brightness for HDR support, higher refresh rate using DP 1.3/1.4 and FreeSync support. I suspect that the brightness factor is due to the relatively immaturity of mass production OLED displays (at least compared to traditional LCD). The other two factors can be addressed with newer display controller boards. I'm really surprised by the lack of Freesync.TristanSDX - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Price is still too high, very unjustified by OLED tech.LG 55 inch 4K OLED TV costs 1500$, so at this rate 30 inch costs 450$. Even if they use finer pixels, and price is doubled to 1000$, it is still far below 3500$
haukionkannel - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
You have to remember that 55" Oled tv are has 25Hz real refress rates (the commersial 240Hz refress has nothing to do with real refress rates). This has 60... So over douple speed compared to tv. Also this has real colors and TV use quite crappy color system. So you don't compare comparable products in here.Inteli - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Do you have a source on your claim that "240Hz" TVs only refresh at 25 HZ? Most TVs should refresh at 60 Hz, and some at 120 Hz and use black frame insertion and interpolation to reach those ridiculous numbers.I suspect the price is actually high due to low panel yields. Dell is probably especially picky about what panels they build into their monitors.
fanofanand - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
From rtingsThe B6 is a native 120Hz display, and can interpolate 60Hz and 30Hz content.
nathanddrews - Friday, April 14, 2017 - link
LG OLED TVs, specifically the 2016 and 2017 models can accept a maximum input resolution and refresh of 4K60 4:4:4. The native display refresh rate is 120Hz, so content less than that is multiplied to 120Hz (or 100Hz for PAL).Some LG OLED panels have been shown displaying up to 120fps video content natively in demos of HFR video.
Guspaz - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
LG cheats when it comes to OLEDs. To increase yields and lifespans, they don't actually use an RGB OLED panel. The entire OLED panel is nothing but white subpixels, on top of which they slap a colour filter grid like you'd see in an LCD panel.The upside is that this technique reduced manufacturing complexity and cost and increased yields, which is why LG was able to keep making OLED TVs when every other company (including Samsung and Sony) stopped making them due to yield issues. The neutral part is that they still have the same advantages in terms of contrast ratio and respones time as an RGB OLED panel. The downside is that they're much less power efficient (due to all the light blocked by the filters) and don't have quite the same quality of colour as native RGB could achieve.
Inteli - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
Until Blue OLEDs stop dying way sooner than either Red or Green OLEDs, I'd much rather have White OLEDs than RGBOLEDsrmm584 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
They could combing RGBW tech with Quantum dot filters solve those issues.rmm584 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
*They could combine RGBW tech with Quantum dot filter to solve those issues.cocochanel - Saturday, April 15, 2017 - link
Thanks for the info !The other day I was at a Best Buy store looking at some TV's. Maybe it's just me, but I thought the Samsung 4k with Quantum Dot looked a bit better than LG's with OLED. Even the top of the line Sony's 4k looked better. I know, it's subjective of course.
Kamamura - Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - link
It's just you. The "Quantum dot" technology is just quantum dots used as a backlight with LCD filter over it, thus inheriting all the disadvantages of LCD - low response times and bad viewing angles, while gaining wider color gamut compared to WLED LCD, and longer lifespan compared to OLED.However, when it comes to image quality, they will always be inferior in terms of contrast, response times and viewing angles.
Gothmoth - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
will wait for the first tests of the retail models. for around 2200 euro i would think about buying one.tigz1218 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
If I'm gonna drop that price on a monitor it'd better have 120hz with all those other features. That's a big feature missing for me.Inteli - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
The only way I'd consider buying this is if it uses an LG WOLED panel or if they have seriously improved the lifespan of blue OLEDs (enough that it matches up with red amd green) if this uses a Samsung Panel.My last product with a Samsung OLED screen was tinted yellow after a couple of years, and I don't want to spend $3500 on a monitor that does the same thing.
Also, I know this isn't a consumer monitor but it seems like this could be HDR capable, and should beat the FALED LCD monitors pretty handily.
Magichands8 - Thursday, April 13, 2017 - link
I really don't think OLED is ready for prime time and I don't think this monitor is a good idea. The more expensive it is the worse it gets. All the kinks with color changes over time, burn-in and lack of true RGB are what kill it for me. OLED makes some sense for TVs but not for monitors. I would still rather get my hands on an Eizo CG318-4K than pay anything really for this. Or I'd rather just wait to see how the new LCD technology that's coming out fares. I think it's going to close a lot of the gaps between LCD and OLEDs anyway.Kamamura - Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - link
LCD technology can never close the gap, because it relies on physical LCD crystals changing positions, which will always be slow compared to OLED, therefore the problem with bad viewing angles and slow response times will not go away. The advanced LCD displays employ techs like Overdrive that try to mask the slow response time, but at the cost of ghosting.LCD will always remain the inferior tech.
Lolimaster - Friday, April 14, 2017 - link
The only competitive tech would be microLED (full mini RGB leds, what samsung wants with quantum dots in 2019 models).svan1971 - Thursday, April 20, 2017 - link
I can get a 65 inch lg oled for $2800.Booyaah - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
If they expect someone to pay $3500 for this, it damn well better have DP 1.3 and 120 Hz refresh rate.