#63, you clearly don't read AT's reviews very closely. Take a look at AT's recent KT600 reviews and you'll see that they continually suggeset purchasing nForce2 U400 motherboards instead. They don't go all out and bash the KT600 motherboard because there IS NO REASON TO. KT600 boards are SLIGHTLY slower, SLIGHTLY poorer overclockers, and come with the same features for a lower price. Sure, enthusiasts will always go with nForce2 U400, but that doesn't make KT600 motherboards terrible, and therefore deserving of a bad review.
What it all boils down to isn't how the memory is made, it is the quality of product.
OCZ has a quality product. One OCZ rep in particular, Sean Sinah, has stayed up until 3 AM to personally answer my question. Let's see Corsair or Mushkin do that.
I personally believe that Mushkin, Corsair and OCZ all make good product. Beyond product, OCZ has the customer service.
to post #63, so your saying AT can't review anything to do with an Intel or AMD CPU since I see AMD and Intel advertised here, which means they can't use it in any reviews at all, gee you sure are a smart one.
It doesn't take a genius to search the sites of AT and see that the advertisers products that do get reviewed never get bad ratings. Why is this? Or better yet, why review an advertisers product? Don't you think people won't think something is fishy behind that?
To clarify that last post, all OCZ advertisements on the website are co-brand advertisements, meaning they do not come from OCZ. For example, the ATACOM banner with OCZ on it is ATACOM promoting their OCZ products.
We do not get paid by OCZ nor will we anytime soon. Unlike other hardware sites (whom OCZ can probably vouche for), we just dont do those kinds of things
We do not get paid by OCZ nor will we anytime soon. Unlike other hardware sites (whom OCZ can probably vouche for), we just dont do those kinds of things
56, WHO CARES?!!!! Does it run good? Buy it, use it, and be happy for crying our loud! I've never seen so many whiners in all my life...is this what AT is reduced to? :(
OK- Great hope they are turning their business around. Ask them to why does some of the modules have the Delta Omega logo?? Is PDP still building for them????????
OK- Great hope they are turning their business around. Ask them to why does some of the modules have the Delta Omega logo?? Is PDP still building for them????????
Going back to when corsair were first marketing XMS2700 in the UK they sent review sites and stores based in the UK modules based on Samsung CTL CB3 IC's.As you may know these IC's were truely awesome and all the reviews showed the ram hitting ddr400+ with tight timings.One large UK based store even pealed off the heatspreaders on their forum and showed the modules in all their glory...we were all bought and imediately ordered.
Well the modules started arriving and nothing worked as well as the review samples Corsair had sent out...So we all removed the heatspreaders off out modules only to find Micron PC2100 under them.All posts made on one particular forum about this were edited out at corsairs request, the review was heaviliy edited and RMA's were refused as we had removed the heatspreaders.
Don't tell me Corsair are any better than OCZ because they are not...I don't see any Corsair basing here though.
OCZ are working hard on what matters to customers today...Good ram and an excellent after sales service.If you have a problem im sure an email will get them helping you...
Yeah, god forbid a company attempt to create a good product. You people going to tell me that Corsair hasn't done shady things to sell products? You've got to be kidding. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the people slamming OCZ here work for Corsair or some other company. OCZ are putting out some killer memory right now, who cares what they've done in the past? Or what they'll do in the future? And since when has our quest for the best performance ever been about the company? Gimme the good stuff, I could care less who's making it. You fanboys need to get a grip.
I work at ocz , for those of you calling OCZ a fraud , or bashing OCZ can you do us all the great favor of posting under your real name , instead of as anonomous
If you had some genuine problem with ocz email me [email protected] , we certainly did not always have the great service we do today and if you had a problem I would personaly be glad to help you . Also it seems many people confuse us with other companies.
If you have not had a problem , or are not willing to resolve it ,please stop spewing garbage anonomously. Otherwise I cant help but think that your simply an employee of our competition spreading rumour for your own gain.
I challenge anyone with a real past problem to email me , so that I can at least have the opportunity to solve it. If you have not had a problem please refrain from the trash talk.
I am not saying here that people did not in the past have service problems with ocz , to be clear , I am however saying that the level of trash talk in the comments sections is out of control. Anyone who has in the past had a problem can contact us to have the issue resolved.
The advantage of being a very large site like AnandTech is that ALL of the memory makers advertise here. I will not justify the last comment with a defense, but if you look around you will see how ridiculous these comments really are.
I came from a site that had no advertising while I was there, and from the first time we talked Anand has encouraged my independence. Why is it that when we report information that is different from what you might believe, it is proof we have sold out? The real sell-out here is some of the narrow-minded self-serving and totally false comments that have been posted as commentary.
It is truly amazing what some people will say when they can hide behind 'Anonymous'.
Hehehe, OCZ is nothing more then a marketing firm. The so called plant is a "memory plant" that OCZ went into business with. The so called "memory plant" is where they bought their memory 2 years ago. They needed to move out of Indiana because of the amount of fraud that was being reported.
If half of you did your research about this company you would realize. Want to know the true info? Ask Martin Krohn. He witnessed the true nature of the company.
You see OCZ on Anandtech it's not because of their products it's because they paid Anandtech for advertising. Do you really think Anandtech would "turn down" paying clients? This is a business now folks. I can guarantee you that no bad reviews of any of the paying advertising clients are on this site. Anandtech is a total sell out. Just look at their GeForce FX 5900 review! That has never been fixed yet either! This site is horrible now. It ranks up their with Toms and now [H] big business sites suck.
What a ridiculous post by #45. Are you really that narrow? This isn't some criminal court case, we're talking about how memory performs and if it's worth your while. Sure, OCZ's past is suspect, but all of that happened two YEARS ago. It's well known that OCZ has been overhauled since then. The fact that HUNDREDS of OCZ users that have posting on Internet message boards have raved about how great OCZ's latest modules have been and how quick and pleasant their tech support and customer service are should be all the proof you need about anything related to OCZ products and OCZ support.
Who the hell cares about binning, lasering, splitting, or how any of that crap is done. OCZ memory modules work and have worked well for many many months now. That's the fundamental point of this article. If you can't understand that then you just don't know how companies in this industry work, and that's, well, sad.
#45 If someone here has a bad ocz product ,or even in the past had one, they can contact ocz to get it taken care of , [email protected] and [email protected] they I am sure will be very helpfull
If AnandTech wants to make this more believable, they should ask OCZ for an invitation to their "factory" where they bin and send chips to their "third party" lasering people, and where they reassemble things on their PCBs. Find out where they get the PCBs, and have them show you the process of assembly. Ask to see the deed to the building, and verify who the owner is.
Then find out similar things about these lasering people.
This is the several dozenth incarnation of OCZ, and their history is all too criminal to ignore. Why are they not standing behind their old products with which they defrauded so many people?
If you want to earn a good name, you earn it by doing the right thing.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Hey, I hear Communist China has revolutionized the "raising the dead" technology they've been working on so long. I think I'll see if they can raise the grandparents I never met for me. It's only a few hundred thousand dollars each corpse! Just because the same government murdered over 100 million people in the last 54 years doesn't mean anything! This must be true! I want it to be true!
#11 Apparently you read my post, but don't understand simple senteces very well. Maybe if you read it slower next time you'll realize that when I say "I'm sending it back" I probably mean to say "I'm sending it back". You must have the comprehension of a two year old.
OCZ gold is returnable , if you bought the wrong products on accident or have any trouble you should email them , [email protected] or [email protected] are always helpfull, really nice folks
hi all, Just a tip for all those like myself who bought an Msi 865PE motherboard. I wanted to get the pc 3700 gold ocz, but ocz reps emailed and told me MSI motherboards don't work well in async mode (>400MHz ram). Please remember to email your ram manufacturer before purchasing because ocz gold is not returnable. Hopefully, MSI will make another BIOS release to work well in async.
Then that is Corsair, even though they always fervently denied any such practice. Whenever I talked to Robert Pearce, he claimed that it is basically a random choice of module that goes out. I know for a fact that this is how things have been and still are handled at Mushkin, they don't even have the manpower and setup to cherry pick anything.
Kristopher, I can assure you that neither Corsair nor Mushkin cherry pick any of their review samples.
Wesley, I don't mean to say that OCZ quality is bad at all. All I say is that the "EL" process serves a purpose that is different from what OCZ claims. [grin]
After reading the article I was wondering if the el ddr process and lasering was so effective then why don't more people do this? Even why Samsung does explore this route. Then I realized what I missed. they are removing 7mill from the surface of the chip. In the chip world size does matter and when you move from nanometer to millimeter thats HUGE. This approach is very risky. I know to well that some mothboards are finiky with memory and I wonder how well today's boards will work with this aggressive approach.
Michael - Your review at Lost Circuits and the less stellar performance of the TCB3 modules I had gave me the idea for the article I did here. There is one VERY important piece of info that you do not share here. You bought retail GOLD, and as you stated in your review conclusion, it DID indeed meet specifications and beyond. We can debate the effectiveness of methods all day, but, in the end, performance and reliability is why we buy memory - whatever the brand.
Anyone who doubts that MS found the retail memory met spec can check his review of the OCZ3700 GOLD at Lost Circuits.
#29 Someone mentioned it earlier. The memory companies are all "nice" but they all have their misgivings. Do you think Mushkin hands you a stick they found laying on the ground in the fab? Any manufacturer gives you creame of the crop products for a review. Thats just common practice.
#28-that is exactly my problem with this article. Are just supposed to believe that the chips all came out of one pile, and half were lasered and half weren't? I'm sorry, but OCZ hasn't earned any sort of right to be taken at their word. Mushkin or Corsair MAYBE, but certainly not a company with a well established history of buying reviews.
That was my point, unless you test exactly the same samples before and after, there is no significance at all.
There is also no difference between laser-blasting off the top layer and mechanically grinding it down. I went to the point of where the die itself was shining through the remains of the top layer, you can't go thinner than that and the process is much more precise than laser blasting and guess .... there was not a single MHz that was gained.
The methodology used here in this review is based on blind faith that all chips were random samples out of the same pot but they weren't. Neither random nor from the same batch and that's why the conclusions fall, at least in my opinion on their face.
There is another reason for the blasting but that one I can't talk about.
You can see the leadframe with the 66 TSOP legs, and the bondwires that run from there through the package to the bond-pads on the die in the center.
I went to the point of removing the top layer completely and even got myself some Open-top chips at some time in the past to try all those things and ... guess what again... :)
come on, you dont really believe this laser BS do you? you either dont know $hit about memory or you wanna help ocs in some way because you guys personally like them.
you think those memory sticks you got proove anything? they just gave you a stick that clocks lower saying this is what its before me lasered it and a better clocking stick and say this one is after we sent this stick to space where some ocz bacterias change the molecular structure of the memory chips, and you believe it?
#25: Give me a break. Wesley Fink (AKA Prometheus) is an excellent hardware reviewer who has put in more time and effort into the community than you will ever do in your lifetime. His reviews and opinions are unbiased, just, and straightforward. The fact that he was hired by Anandtech only proves his worth to the hardware enthusiast community.
And fact is, OCZ has indeed changed. Evan wouldn't be saying so if he didn't believe it... Maybe you should bash on him while you're at it, he seems to be defending OCZ here, also.
And the OCZ representitive on ABXZone and Xtremesystems (Ryan Peterson) is very helpful. He's kind, courteous, and always willing to lend a hand. He helped me RMA my 3700 Gold that wouldn't do DDR500 when they aren't even rated for it. That's customer service and satisfaction right there. I doubt he'd ever come to AT because nobody in the forums accepts self-promoters regardless of company, let alone OCZ, where people such as yourself would flame and bash even if comments and posts were helpful and informative.
The point about OCZ infesting AT was in regards to them buying praise over on ABX, and now they have an ABX "writer" here pimping this stuff barely 2 weeks after his arrival.A sad day for objective reviewing.
And OCZ has NOT changed. Reputable companies don't remark parts with their own fake timings. The only thing they've done is install some shills on the noob-centric forums to cater to the people who have no clue what they're doing. I'd like to see them try it on AT Forums, the destruction would be quick and hilarious. That little fact alone should tell you who OCZ's target market is-idiots.
#18, my board is an MSI Neo2 LS. Not sure which revision, but I have the latest bios. Got OCZ b/c a review somwhere stated that Corsair, which I usually buy, didn't work well. As it turns out that was not the low latency version. I like the board a lot outside of the memory issue. Heck, the copper jacket on the memory is pretty cool too.
#20, our experiences with the modules OCZ sent us have already been confirmed by users who have bought those same modules retail from online stores such as Newegg, Googlegear, etc. We certainly take that information into account, don't worry. :)
#22, OCZ has changed for the better. Perhaps you should try out some of their modules?
I hope all of those who thing OCZ has suddenly repented of its entire history will come back here and elsewhere and tell everyone they can about their experiences. I think we'll be seeing lots of surprised and disappointed people.
If they really wanted to change, they'd get a new name, and have no relationship with the old criminals.
Anandtech should purchase and test this sort of product from various retail locations to get a good feel for what the enduser will receive. It's all too easy for OCZ to send AT a statistical outlier but cash in on the good reputation it builds for their entire product line. In fact, I'm still skeptical. Memory chips don't even get that hot - I didn't think they were as sensitive to temperature as CPUs. Or at least that was the opinion shared by several knowledgeable engineers on the forums here a year or two ago when those RAM sinks started to get in vogue.
Companies get turned around all of the time - for better or for worse.
If I had read this before my June upgrade, things may have gone differently.
In my case, I got OCZ for the first time (2 x 256 3200) for my 865PE board. Despite Anandtech's report on compatibility, I have to run in "slow" timing mode to make sure my system won't crash. Never have I had such poor performance in memory. The full featured board (I skipped a few options) and the 875 version cost about the same as good memory replacements. Oh well...
Apparently the 'lasering' process is performed after binning, so why were unbinned DIMMs used? Unless the sample size was significant (I would not be confident with under 30 DIMMs of each type, personally) it would make a lot more sense to have the modules binned before modification so that at least some baseline is established. Without this then all you have is a statistical correlation (by the way, what was the nature of this beyond it being positive?) hence the higher number of modules required. That is not to say of course that even if they are binned then you can get away with a very small population, but at least reduce it to perhaps 10 to 15 of each type.
I would be very interested to learn what n and r were in each case. Also, what statistical method was used to determine correlation? Spearman's rank method? Was this tested at 10%? 5%? 1%?
On a different note, I've become aware that some of OCZ's banner adverts suffer unfortunate spelling and punctuation errors...
I've read alot of things about OCZ a lot of them bad....but that was probably a year or two back. I've also read the reviews for this ram on Hexus and they seem to reach similar conclusions as the article here. It makes me wonder is everyone just shilling for this product or has OCZ turned their image around and are they now producing good cutting edge products....being in the market for some ram for my IS7 I'm really tempeted to try these.
Of course there's no word about OCZ's shady practices. OCZ bought favor over on ABX, and now they've infested AT with their garbage. Hell, why not just print an OCZ press release instead of an article?
Watching what's happening to AT is like watching Tom's HW after Tom decided he was too important to write. When you pass off all of your work onto unqualified lackeys, articles like this and the power supply one are the result.
Im not a huge OCZ fan, but it does piss me off that so many people continue to believe that they are this fraudulent enterprise that doesnt exist. I suppose you think Mushkin doesnt buy reviews? Maybe you have the notion that Kingston doesnt relable memory? Ive seen Corsair shut sites down for comments they didnt agree with.
Everyone at one point or another has a bad piece of hardware, it happens. You just need to RMA it. You think no one else has RMAs? LOL check out Corsair's forums and their RMA rate, then get back to me.
OCZ makes me extremely nervous. I've had 2X256MB of PC-2700 stuff from them that has never worked at 333MHz from day one on both modules. So I relegated them to a KT266A motherboard running 266MHz with crappy timeing and wrote them off as a bad decision. Well, all of a sudden this Gold stuff suddenly appears and since I've recently upgraded to a Barton core and don't have memory that with work at 333MHz, I ask myself why I'm living with memory that is bordering on fraud so I decide to give tech support a ring and was surprised to find them somewhat helpful. I'm sending back the modules and if they send me back two modules that actually work as advertised, perhaps they'll warrant a second chance. In the meantime, however, I'm going to stay the hell away from OCZ. There are no shortcuts in this business and it seems OCZ has tried them all and failed 90% of the time while pawning off those failures to their customers.
Great article, for me personally this article is showing the average experience that people will receive from their OCZ 3700 or higher ram. I have 2x256 OCZ PC3700 Gold that will reach DDR540 @ 2-6-3-3 timings. I have 2x256 OCZ PC3700 Premier that will reach DDR530 @ 2.5-6-3-3. That's way beyond spec and I'm very pleased with them. You just can't go wrong using OCZ these days.
For comparison, I have 2x256 Corsair 3700xms that will only do DDR490 3-8-4-4, and they aren't 100% stable there. From personal experience I will never buy Corsair again, not when I can get OCZ which will run way over spec.
Again great article, it seems things are always gettin' better for OCZ.
Not a word in this review about OCZ having the worst reputation in the industry? Not a word about them never standing behind their products. Not a word about them closing down their parent company every time the claims and fraud investigations start getting big, and then re-opening again somewhere else a couple of months later.
Once a criminal enterprise, always a criminal enterprise. OCZ is a fraud, no matter what special review chips they send to sites like this one.
I removed the top layer from some chips and tested the same DIMM before and after and there was no difference whatsoever. Therefore, I am stil sceptic about the entire issue of going topless for better performance.
Yeah, they've changed quite a bit Kris. Their product's performance and their customer support today makes them a much more reputable memory contender than they were 1 or 2 years ago.
I think if OCZ continues this kind of introduction of products they may turn the company around from its past. Also, I liked how they co-operated and gave the chips you guys asked for without trouble. Doing that, they show their confidence in their laser process.
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Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - link
#63, you clearly don't read AT's reviews very closely. Take a look at AT's recent KT600 reviews and you'll see that they continually suggeset purchasing nForce2 U400 motherboards instead. They don't go all out and bash the KT600 motherboard because there IS NO REASON TO. KT600 boards are SLIGHTLY slower, SLIGHTLY poorer overclockers, and come with the same features for a lower price. Sure, enthusiasts will always go with nForce2 U400, but that doesn't make KT600 motherboards terrible, and therefore deserving of a bad review.Yikes, get a clue.
Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - link
Well, Mushkin is here and pleaes post your questions....Let me know what you need and we will try to assist.You can also post your questions at
http://forums.mushkin.com/phpbb2/
Duonger
Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - link
Well, Mushkin is here and pleaes post your questions....Let me know what you need and we will try to assist.You can also post your questions at
http://forums.mushkin.com/phpbb2/
Duonger
Anonymous User - Monday, August 18, 2003 - link
What it all boils down to isn't how the memory is made, it is the quality of product.OCZ has a quality product. One OCZ rep in particular, Sean Sinah, has stayed up until 3 AM to personally answer my question. Let's see Corsair or Mushkin do that.
I personally believe that Mushkin, Corsair and OCZ all make good product. Beyond product, OCZ has the customer service.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 17, 2003 - link
to post #63, so your saying AT can't review anything to do with an Intel or AMD CPU since I see AMD and Intel advertised here, which means they can't use it in any reviews at all, gee you sure are a smart one.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 16, 2003 - link
It doesn't take a genius to search the sites of AT and see that the advertisers products that do get reviewed never get bad ratings. Why is this? Or better yet, why review an advertisers product? Don't you think people won't think something is fishy behind that?Anonymous User - Thursday, August 14, 2003 - link
To clarify that last post, all OCZ advertisements on the website are co-brand advertisements, meaning they do not come from OCZ. For example, the ATACOM banner with OCZ on it is ATACOM promoting their OCZ products.Anonymous User - Thursday, August 14, 2003 - link
#49We do not get paid by OCZ nor will we anytime soon. Unlike other hardware sites (whom OCZ can probably vouche for), we just dont do those kinds of things
Anonymous User - Thursday, August 14, 2003 - link
#49We do not get paid by OCZ nor will we anytime soon. Unlike other hardware sites (whom OCZ can probably vouche for), we just dont do those kinds of things
Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
56, WHO CARES?!!!! Does it run good? Buy it, use it, and be happy for crying our loud! I've never seen so many whiners in all my life...is this what AT is reduced to? :(Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
For that.. Ask Corsair how All Components is doing the job for them? LOL LOLAnonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
OK- Great hope they are turning their business around. Ask them to why does some of the modules have the Delta Omega logo?? Is PDP still building for them????????Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
OK- Great hope they are turning their business around. Ask them to why does some of the modules have the Delta Omega logo?? Is PDP still building for them????????Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
With stupid people like #54, who needs marketing?Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - link
Everyone is better than the OCZ every knowledgeable person has come to know and despise.The question is, if, as is claimed, they have repented, why even keep the old, blackened name? There's no good reason.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
Going back to when corsair were first marketing XMS2700 in the UK they sent review sites and stores based in the UK modules based on Samsung CTL CB3 IC's.As you may know these IC's were truely awesome and all the reviews showed the ram hitting ddr400+ with tight timings.One large UK based store even pealed off the heatspreaders on their forum and showed the modules in all their glory...we were all bought and imediately ordered.Well the modules started arriving and nothing worked as well as the review samples Corsair had sent out...So we all removed the heatspreaders off out modules only to find Micron PC2100 under them.All posts made on one particular forum about this were edited out at corsairs request, the review was heaviliy edited and RMA's were refused as we had removed the heatspreaders.
Don't tell me Corsair are any better than OCZ because they are not...I don't see any Corsair basing here though.
OCZ are working hard on what matters to customers today...Good ram and an excellent after sales service.If you have a problem im sure an email will get them helping you...
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
Yeah, god forbid a company attempt to create a good product. You people going to tell me that Corsair hasn't done shady things to sell products? You've got to be kidding. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the people slamming OCZ here work for Corsair or some other company. OCZ are putting out some killer memory right now, who cares what they've done in the past? Or what they'll do in the future? And since when has our quest for the best performance ever been about the company? Gimme the good stuff, I could care less who's making it. You fanboys need to get a grip.Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
I work at ocz , for those of you calling OCZ a fraud , or bashing OCZ can you do us all the great favor of posting under your real name , instead of as anonomousIf you had some genuine problem with ocz email me
[email protected] , we certainly did not always have the great service we do today and if you had a problem I would personaly be glad to help you . Also it seems many people confuse us with other companies.
If you have not had a problem , or are not willing to resolve it ,please stop spewing garbage anonomously. Otherwise I cant help but think that your simply an employee of our competition spreading rumour for your own gain.
I challenge anyone with a real past problem to email me , so that I can at least have the opportunity to solve it. If you have not had a problem please refrain from the trash talk.
I am not saying here that people did not in the past have service problems with ocz , to be clear , I am however saying that the level of trash talk in the comments sections is out of control. Anyone who has in the past had a problem can contact us to have the issue resolved.
Enough said
thanks for listening to my rant -OCZGUY
Wesley Fink - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
The advantage of being a very large site like AnandTech is that ALL of the memory makers advertise here. I will not justify the last comment with a defense, but if you look around you will see how ridiculous these comments really are.I came from a site that had no advertising while I was there, and from the first time we talked Anand has encouraged my independence. Why is it that when we report information that is different from what you might believe, it is proof we have sold out? The real sell-out here is some of the narrow-minded self-serving and totally false comments that have been posted as commentary.
It is truly amazing what some people will say when they can hide behind 'Anonymous'.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
Hehehe, OCZ is nothing more then a marketing firm. The so called plant is a "memory plant" that OCZ went into business with. The so called "memory plant" is where they bought their memory 2 years ago. They needed to move out of Indiana because of the amount of fraud that was being reported.If half of you did your research about this company you would realize. Want to know the true info? Ask Martin Krohn. He witnessed the true nature of the company.
You see OCZ on Anandtech it's not because of their products it's because they paid Anandtech for advertising. Do you really think Anandtech would "turn down" paying clients? This is a business now folks. I can guarantee you that no bad reviews of any of the paying advertising clients are on this site. Anandtech is a total sell out. Just look at their GeForce FX 5900 review! That has never been fixed yet either! This site is horrible now. It ranks up their with Toms and now [H] big business sites suck.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
Spme of You people Deserve to get ripped off by This kind of BS Marketing& Fake memory "Companies" who do nothing
but marketing.
This Thing exists FOR the US market lol.
No other market would ever buy any of it.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
What a ridiculous post by #45. Are you really that narrow? This isn't some criminal court case, we're talking about how memory performs and if it's worth your while. Sure, OCZ's past is suspect, but all of that happened two YEARS ago. It's well known that OCZ has been overhauled since then. The fact that HUNDREDS of OCZ users that have posting on Internet message boards have raved about how great OCZ's latest modules have been and how quick and pleasant their tech support and customer service are should be all the proof you need about anything related to OCZ products and OCZ support.Who the hell cares about binning, lasering, splitting, or how any of that crap is done. OCZ memory modules work and have worked well for many many months now. That's the fundamental point of this article. If you can't understand that then you just don't know how companies in this industry work, and that's, well, sad.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
#45 If someone here has a bad ocz product ,or even in the past had one, they can contact ocz to get it taken care of , [email protected] and [email protected] they I am sure will be very helpfullAnonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
If AnandTech wants to make this more believable, they should ask OCZ for an invitation to their "factory" where they bin and send chips to their "third party" lasering people, and where they reassemble things on their PCBs. Find out where they get the PCBs, and have them show you the process of assembly. Ask to see the deed to the building, and verify who the owner is.Then find out similar things about these lasering people.
This is the several dozenth incarnation of OCZ, and their history is all too criminal to ignore. Why are they not standing behind their old products with which they defrauded so many people?
If you want to earn a good name, you earn it by doing the right thing.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
Hey, I hear Communist China has revolutionized the "raising the dead" technology they've been working on so long. I think I'll see if they can raise the grandparents I never met for me. It's only a few hundred thousand dollars each corpse! Just because the same government murdered over 100 million people in the last 54 years doesn't mean anything! This must be true! I want it to be true!Kishkumen - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#11 Apparently you read my post, but don't understand simple senteces very well. Maybe if you read it slower next time you'll realize that when I say "I'm sending it back" I probably mean to say "I'm sending it back". You must have the comprehension of a two year old.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
OCZ gold is returnable , if you bought the wrong products on accident or have any trouble you should email them , [email protected] or [email protected] are always helpfull, really nice folksAnonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
hi all,Just a tip for all those like myself who bought an Msi 865PE motherboard. I wanted to get the pc 3700 gold ocz, but ocz reps emailed and told me MSI motherboards don't work well in async mode (>400MHz ram). Please remember to email your ram manufacturer before purchasing because ocz gold is not returnable. Hopefully, MSI will make another BIOS release to work well in async.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
I heard OCZ had a pact with satan , how else could they make the memory run so fast. :-DAnonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Think I will be picking up a pair of these, I have been a fan of OCZ memory for some time,Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
This coments sections is full of trash, what does any of this have to do with the articleMS - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Kristopher,Then that is Corsair, even though they always fervently denied any such practice. Whenever I talked to Robert Pearce, he claimed that it is basically a random choice of module that goes out. I know for a fact that this is how things have been and still are handled at Mushkin, they don't even have the manpower and setup to cherry pick anything.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
All I can understand (& know already) is thatyou guys just have to know where to buy the same
stuff they sell you for at least half the price.
I bought modules using the same chips rated as ddr33 - & at oem ddr33 price.
Laser This :).
Ill Just use 2.8 & skip your lasering & Rebadging.
wixt0r - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Geez, such an uproar over this OCZ stuff. The memory works!KristopherKubicki - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
MS:I can send you some more evidence if you want? That is pretty much Nicole's job at Corsair to make sure reviewers get the best samples for reviews ;)
Kristopher
MS - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Kristopher, I can assure you that neither Corsair nor Mushkin cherry pick any of their review samples.Wesley, I don't mean to say that OCZ quality is bad at all. All I say is that the "EL" process serves a purpose that is different from what OCZ claims. [grin]
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
After reading the article I was wondering if the el ddr process and lasering was so effective then why don't more people do this? Even why Samsung does explore this route. Then I realized what I missed. they are removing 7mill from the surface of the chip. In the chip world size does matter and when you move from nanometer to millimeter thats HUGE. This approach is very risky. I know to well that some mothboards are finiky with memory and I wonder how well today's boards will work with this aggressive approach.Wesley Fink - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Michael - Your review at Lost Circuits and the less stellar performance of the TCB3 modules I had gave me the idea for the article I did here. There is one VERY important piece of info that you do not share here. You bought retail GOLD, and as you stated in your review conclusion, it DID indeed meet specifications and beyond. We can debate the effectiveness of methods all day, but, in the end, performance and reliability is why we buy memory - whatever the brand.Anyone who doubts that MS found the retail memory met spec can check his review of the OCZ3700 GOLD at Lost Circuits.
KristopherKubicki - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#29 Someone mentioned it earlier. The memory companies are all "nice" but they all have their misgivings. Do you think Mushkin hands you a stick they found laying on the ground in the fab? Any manufacturer gives you creame of the crop products for a review. Thats just common practice.Kristopher
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#28-that is exactly my problem with this article. Are just supposed to believe that the chips all came out of one pile, and half were lasered and half weren't? I'm sorry, but OCZ hasn't earned any sort of right to be taken at their word. Mushkin or Corsair MAYBE, but certainly not a company with a well established history of buying reviews.MS - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
That was my point, unless you test exactly the same samples before and after, there is no significance at all.There is also no difference between laser-blasting off the top layer and mechanically grinding it down. I went to the point of where the die itself was shining through the remains of the top layer, you can't go thinner than that and the process is much more precise than laser blasting and guess .... there was not a single MHz that was gained.
The methodology used here in this review is based on blind faith that all chips were random samples out of the same pot but they weren't. Neither random nor from the same batch and that's why the conclusions fall, at least in my opinion on their face.
There is another reason for the blasting but that one I can't talk about.
http://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/sanded/transpar...
You can see the leadframe with the 66 TSOP legs, and the bondwires that run from there through the package to the bond-pads on the die in the center.
I went to the point of removing the top layer completely and even got myself some Open-top chips at some time in the past to try all those things and ... guess what again... :)
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
come on, you dont really believe this laser BS do you? you either dont know $hit about memory or you wanna help ocs in some way because you guys personally like them.you think those memory sticks you got proove anything? they just gave you a stick that clocks lower saying this is what its before me lasered it and a better clocking stick and say this one is after we sent this stick to space where some ocz bacterias change the molecular structure of the memory chips, and you believe it?
COME OOOON!
wixt0r - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#25: Give me a break. Wesley Fink (AKA Prometheus) is an excellent hardware reviewer who has put in more time and effort into the community than you will ever do in your lifetime. His reviews and opinions are unbiased, just, and straightforward. The fact that he was hired by Anandtech only proves his worth to the hardware enthusiast community.And fact is, OCZ has indeed changed. Evan wouldn't be saying so if he didn't believe it... Maybe you should bash on him while you're at it, he seems to be defending OCZ here, also.
And the OCZ representitive on ABXZone and Xtremesystems (Ryan Peterson) is very helpful. He's kind, courteous, and always willing to lend a hand. He helped me RMA my 3700 Gold that wouldn't do DDR500 when they aren't even rated for it. That's customer service and satisfaction right there. I doubt he'd ever come to AT because nobody in the forums accepts self-promoters regardless of company, let alone OCZ, where people such as yourself would flame and bash even if comments and posts were helpful and informative.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
The point about OCZ infesting AT was in regards to them buying praise over on ABX, and now they have an ABX "writer" here pimping this stuff barely 2 weeks after his arrival.A sad day for objective reviewing.And OCZ has NOT changed. Reputable companies don't remark parts with their own fake timings. The only thing they've done is install some shills on the noob-centric forums to cater to the people who have no clue what they're doing. I'd like to see them try it on AT Forums, the destruction would be quick and hilarious. That little fact alone should tell you who OCZ's target market is-idiots.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#18, my board is an MSI Neo2 LS. Not sure which revision, but I have the latest bios. Got OCZ b/c a review somwhere stated that Corsair, which I usually buy, didn't work well. As it turns out that was not the low latency version. I like the board a lot outside of the memory issue. Heck, the copper jacket on the memory is pretty cool too.Evan Lieb - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#20, our experiences with the modules OCZ sent us have already been confirmed by users who have bought those same modules retail from online stores such as Newegg, Googlegear, etc. We certainly take that information into account, don't worry. :)#22, OCZ has changed for the better. Perhaps you should try out some of their modules?
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
I hope all of those who thing OCZ has suddenly repented of its entire history will come back here and elsewhere and tell everyone they can about their experiences. I think we'll be seeing lots of surprised and disappointed people.If they really wanted to change, they'd get a new name, and have no relationship with the old criminals.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Where is this memory currently in stock? I'm willing to pay quite a lot for it, in fact.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Anandtech should purchase and test this sort of product from various retail locations to get a good feel for what the enduser will receive. It's all too easy for OCZ to send AT a statistical outlier but cash in on the good reputation it builds for their entire product line. In fact, I'm still skeptical. Memory chips don't even get that hot - I didn't think they were as sensitive to temperature as CPUs. Or at least that was the opinion shared by several knowledgeable engineers on the forums here a year or two ago when those RAM sinks started to get in vogue.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
#14 this is the first OCZ review ive ever seen on AT. Where is the other garbage that is infecting the website?Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Which board did you use #17? Early 865PE and 875P boards had BIOS issues with lots of memory modules (Corsair, Kingston, etc.), not just OCZ.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 9, 2003 - link
Companies get turned around all of the time - for better or for worse.If I had read this before my June upgrade, things may have gone differently.
In my case, I got OCZ for the first time (2 x 256 3200) for my 865PE board. Despite Anandtech's report on compatibility, I have to run in "slow" timing mode to make sure my system won't crash. Never have I had such poor performance in memory. The full featured board (I skipped a few options) and the 875 version cost about the same as good memory replacements. Oh well...
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Apparently the 'lasering' process is performed after binning, so why were unbinned DIMMs used? Unless the sample size was significant (I would not be confident with under 30 DIMMs of each type, personally) it would make a lot more sense to have the modules binned before modification so that at least some baseline is established. Without this then all you have is a statistical correlation (by the way, what was the nature of this beyond it being positive?) hence the higher number of modules required. That is not to say of course that even if they are binned then you can get away with a very small population, but at least reduce it to perhaps 10 to 15 of each type.I would be very interested to learn what n and r were in each case. Also, what statistical method was used to determine correlation? Spearman's rank method? Was this tested at 10%? 5%? 1%?
On a different note, I've become aware that some of OCZ's banner adverts suffer unfortunate spelling and punctuation errors...
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
I've read alot of things about OCZ a lot of them bad....but that was probably a year or two back. I've also read the reviews for this ram on Hexus and they seem to reach similar conclusions as the article here. It makes me wonder is everyone just shilling for this product or has OCZ turned their image around and are they now producing good cutting edge products....being in the market for some ram for my IS7 I'm really tempeted to try these.Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Of course there's no word about OCZ's shady practices. OCZ bought favor over on ABX, and now they've infested AT with their garbage. Hell, why not just print an OCZ press release instead of an article?Watching what's happening to AT is like watching Tom's HW after Tom decided he was too important to write. When you pass off all of your work onto unqualified lackeys, articles like this and the power supply one are the result.
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Can someone please explain memory timings to me?What's the differance from 2-7-3-3 to 3-8-4-4? Is it more than the amount of data written per CPU cycle? Or does it have nothing to do with that?
Thank-you!
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Im not a huge OCZ fan, but it does piss me off that so many people continue to believe that they are this fraudulent enterprise that doesnt exist. I suppose you think Mushkin doesnt buy reviews? Maybe you have the notion that Kingston doesnt relable memory? Ive seen Corsair shut sites down for comments they didnt agree with.Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Kishkumen,Everyone at one point or another has a bad piece of hardware, it happens. You just need to RMA it. You think no one else has RMAs? LOL check out Corsair's forums and their RMA rate, then get back to me.
Kishkumen - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
OCZ makes me extremely nervous. I've had 2X256MB of PC-2700 stuff from them that has never worked at 333MHz from day one on both modules. So I relegated them to a KT266A motherboard running 266MHz with crappy timeing and wrote them off as a bad decision. Well, all of a sudden this Gold stuff suddenly appears and since I've recently upgraded to a Barton core and don't have memory that with work at 333MHz, I ask myself why I'm living with memory that is bordering on fraud so I decide to give tech support a ring and was surprised to find them somewhat helpful. I'm sending back the modules and if they send me back two modules that actually work as advertised, perhaps they'll warrant a second chance. In the meantime, however, I'm going to stay the hell away from OCZ. There are no shortcuts in this business and it seems OCZ has tried them all and failed 90% of the time while pawning off those failures to their customers.Radelon - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Great article, for me personally this article is showing the average experience that people will receive from their OCZ 3700 or higher ram. I have 2x256 OCZ PC3700 Gold that will reach DDR540 @ 2-6-3-3 timings. I have 2x256 OCZ PC3700 Premier that will reach DDR530 @ 2.5-6-3-3. That's way beyond spec and I'm very pleased with them. You just can't go wrong using OCZ these days.For comparison, I have 2x256 Corsair 3700xms that will only do DDR490 3-8-4-4, and they aren't 100% stable there. From personal experience I will never buy Corsair again, not when I can get OCZ which will run way over spec.
Again great article, it seems things are always gettin' better for OCZ.
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
MS ,I think the point of the article was to prove that the lasering process works ? I could be wrong but it appears the results confirm it
Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Not a word in this review about OCZ having the worst reputation in the industry? Not a word about them never standing behind their products. Not a word about them closing down their parent company every time the claims and fraud investigations start getting big, and then re-opening again somewhere else a couple of months later.Once a criminal enterprise, always a criminal enterprise. OCZ is a fraud, no matter what special review chips they send to sites like this one.
MS - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
I removed the top layer from some chips and tested the same DIMM before and after and there was no difference whatsoever. Therefore, I am stil sceptic about the entire issue of going topless for better performance.Mday - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
always good to see a place turn around, but there are always lingering doubts...Evan Lieb - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Yeah, they've changed quite a bit Kris. Their product's performance and their customer support today makes them a much more reputable memory contender than they were 1 or 2 years ago.Anonymous User - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
Why won't you be including Mushkin, this time?You used to be really big on them.
KristopherKubicki - Friday, August 8, 2003 - link
I visted with them a month or two ago, they seem a lot less like the company I visited 18 months ago.AgaBooga - Thursday, August 7, 2003 - link
I think if OCZ continues this kind of introduction of products they may turn the company around from its past. Also, I liked how they co-operated and gave the chips you guys asked for without trouble. Doing that, they show their confidence in their laser process.