I'm guessing there are probably Linux drivers for all the components in this machine and would be 100% fine with Linux. Just don't expect ECS to provide any help with it.
Even if it had Iris Pro graphics, the anemic dual-core can't deliver a playable experience. As a Kodi/Retroarch box, it's probably perfect. If you can get Linux running on it, it would also make an excellent pfSense box - but the lack of a quad-core means foregoing some more advanced plugins.
OMG it's adorable cute and for $220, the price isn't bad at all. It badly needs the M.2 SSD to make it usable since ECS skimped on the eMMC drive, but it looks like a really nice little system you could mount on the back of a monitor to keep clutter down. The fact that it's fanless AND has good thermal performance are huge selling points for me.
[X] Dual Lan [X] Built in WiFi (not necessary, but nice bonus) [X] Small [X] Cost Effective [X] Built in flash memory (32GB is enough for pfSense and minimal logging) [X] Support for m.2 SSDs. [X] Passive heat dissipation design
Realtek LAN controllers are a bummer, but it's OK given that throughput/availability issues shouldn't be strained as most internet connections in the US are measured in tens of megabits, rather than saturating the full gigabit connection anyways.
Also wished it was a bit better than a mobile Celeron, but that is plenty for most internet connections and without too many pfSense add-ons. At the end of the day it is 4core/4threads and can burst up to 2.2Ghz on some single-threaded loads, any more and it might not have been able to be passive at this small form factor.
This would be a great homebrew router/NAS combo. I would still get a separate WiFi AP though. That 1x1 configuration on the built in WiFi wouldn't cut the mustard.
I concur. This beats the Fitlet in terms of price by around 50% (especially when you factor in the extended fin heatsink/cover) and the power draw in the 3450 would still be better for comparable performance. This little guy looks like a real gem.
What you save, you lose in capability. The Fitlet models offer up to 4 additional PCIe ethernet ports, Intel i211 IIRC. The Fitlet also seems more purpose-built as a hobbyist network appliance. The Liva Z are more like thin clients where they made an error and stuck on another ethernet port. There are plenty of Bay Trail based network appliance boxes you can pick up on amazon and ebay that come in under the Liva Z's price point, many of them even offer 4 Intel ethernet ports.
>The LIVA Z comes in three variants,corresponding to the three members of the Apollo Lake mobile SoC family (6W TDP) - the Pentium N4200, or the _Celeron N3450_, or the Celeron N3350. Our review sample, the LIVA-ZN33 is based on the Intel Celeron N3350.
If I were state that "it's great that this phone can be equipped with 128GB of storage" in a review about a Samsung Galaxy phone, where in particular the 64GB model was reviewed, my comment would still be
1) Relevant. 2) Obvious given that all electronics products get launched with different configurations.
Responding back that "Hey, this phone has 64GB of storage" is neither enlightening nor relevant to someone commenting that a product can be equipped with 128GB of storage if one chooses to purchase that particular SKU.
The proper way to respond back if you didn't realize that would be "Oh, gotcha!" or "Yeah, that's an interesting point!" rather than pushing the blame back to me, as if I'm somehow at any fault of you not understanding that there are different SKUs of this particular model available.
And it even supports AES-NI -- which I rely on because I make very heavy use of OpenVPN. I have been able to saturate my 300Mbit connection on a reasonably slow processor (albeit faster than this) with AES-NI -- I doubt I would even get close without it -- especially on an Atom.
Torn between this and an Asrock dual Intel LAN mini-itx build with a low power i3. The i3 will get you hardware encryption but it's probably ridiculous overkill for most.
what's the point of the refresh rate test? i know intel was using the wrong math for 23p years ago but that doesn't mean a perfect 24 hz for 24p is any good.
the display refreshrate in madVR is calculated from the system clock and the GPU clock (pretty obvious that it is using the same clock generator for both) but that not important for perfect playback. for perfect playback a GPU clock that is close to the audio clock is needed without frame drops or repeats and this look pretty bad on this system. 16 mins is not good at all.
the clock deviation is relative high and the drop/repeat every X mins is pretty low on the screen screen. for better judgment a video should be played for 10 min+ and the audio volume should be changed at the start of playback a couple of times to see the real drop/repeat frame every X sec/mins/hours/days. the used audio device can play a huge roll in this too.
but what so ever i don't see any gain from the reported refresh rate it a very unimportant number.
Why doesn't Anandtech use a common benchmark suite across all classes of computer? Couldn't you at least run Geekbench 4 and Jetstream (via Chrome) on everything? I know there are arguements for and against all benchmarks -- I wish you'd run a straight Handbrake x264 to x265 transcode of 1080p material on everything you can -- but I think GB4 and Jetstream minimise inter-platform differences and have strong real-world relevance.
Nice review looks like a nice little media station hooked to a TV. ECS I did not even know they were still around. Do they still make Mother boards? If I remember right they used to make lower end mother boards back in the day.
I had the legendary ECS K7S5A which had SD RAM and DDR RAM simultaneously. It had a SiS 735 chipset, which was finicky, but cheap. Oh the days of competing chipsets.
Ugh - why do vendors put two NICs in these things that are based on anything other than Intel chipsets? Realtek may be OK for desktop use but suck for heavy network loads. I could use a boatload of these with pfSense. And they may work fine, but so many issues with crappy Realtek and Broadcom NICs have me to the point where I don't even want to bother trying :p
Seems like an odd choice to not include even ONE USB port on the back. I mean, replace the mini DisplayPort with a USB type C port, at least. Then the user can choose between using it as a display or for peripherals. (Since 99% of people wanting to use it for display would need to use an adapter anyway.) Heck, then it would go great with a USB-C-equipped DisplayPort-protocol monitor, like the LG UltraFine 4K Display.
Man.... I was really into this as a replacement for my circa 2012 Foxconn NT-A3500 HTPC setup now that I upgraded to a 4k/HDR TV..... until I noticed it doesn't have a HDCP 2.2 capable HDMI 2.0 port.... kinda kills it...
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Systab - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Win10 only support is worrisome but expected.The obvious question is how well would it run some sort of Linux server version and what driver problems one would encounter with Win7?
mjeffer - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
I'm guessing there are probably Linux drivers for all the components in this machine and would be 100% fine with Linux. Just don't expect ECS to provide any help with it.StevoLincolnite - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Would have been great to see some gaming benchmarks. Especially eSports titles like Overwatch, StarCraft, Counterstrike etc'.nathanddrews - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Not worth it:https://youtu.be/fN8paf1RtHY
Even if it had Iris Pro graphics, the anemic dual-core can't deliver a playable experience. As a Kodi/Retroarch box, it's probably perfect. If you can get Linux running on it, it would also make an excellent pfSense box - but the lack of a quad-core means foregoing some more advanced plugins.
extide - Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - link
pfSense runs on FreeBSD. not Linux, which makes driver support a BIT trickier -- but I bet you could still get it all up and running.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
OMG it's adorable cute and for $220, the price isn't bad at all. It badly needs the M.2 SSD to make it usable since ECS skimped on the eMMC drive, but it looks like a really nice little system you could mount on the back of a monitor to keep clutter down. The fact that it's fanless AND has good thermal performance are huge selling points for me.JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Perfect box for pfSense.[X] Dual Lan
[X] Built in WiFi (not necessary, but nice bonus)
[X] Small
[X] Cost Effective
[X] Built in flash memory (32GB is enough for pfSense and minimal logging)
[X] Support for m.2 SSDs.
[X] Passive heat dissipation design
Realtek LAN controllers are a bummer, but it's OK given that throughput/availability issues shouldn't be strained as most internet connections in the US are measured in tens of megabits, rather than saturating the full gigabit connection anyways.
Also wished it was a bit better than a mobile Celeron, but that is plenty for most internet connections and without too many pfSense add-ons. At the end of the day it is 4core/4threads and can burst up to 2.2Ghz on some single-threaded loads, any more and it might not have been able to be passive at this small form factor.
Really like this, and I'll keep my eye on it.
takeshi7 - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
This would be a great homebrew router/NAS combo. I would still get a separate WiFi AP though. That 1x1 configuration on the built in WiFi wouldn't cut the mustard.nathanddrews - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
This is the 2C/2T model.JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Yes, Einstein. I'm not talking about the dual core reviewed here, I was talking about the N3450 model which is also available.https://ark.intel.com/products/95596/Intel-Celeron...
4 cores / 4 threads.
Smudgeous - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
I concur. This beats the Fitlet in terms of price by around 50% (especially when you factor in the extended fin heatsink/cover) and the power draw in the 3450 would still be better for comparable performance. This little guy looks like a real gem.Namisecond - Monday, April 3, 2017 - link
What you save, you lose in capability. The Fitlet models offer up to 4 additional PCIe ethernet ports, Intel i211 IIRC. The Fitlet also seems more purpose-built as a hobbyist network appliance. The Liva Z are more like thin clients where they made an error and stuck on another ethernet port. There are plenty of Bay Trail based network appliance boxes you can pick up on amazon and ebay that come in under the Liva Z's price point, many of them even offer 4 Intel ethernet ports.jaydee - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Because obviously we all know you were commenting a different model than the one reviewed here, without mentioning it...nathanddrews - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
IKR?Holliday75 - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Lets just start leaving random review comments in other articles and then berating people who not knowing what product we are talking about.JoeyJoJo123 - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
>The LIVA Z comes in three variants,corresponding to the three members of the Apollo Lake mobile SoC family (6W TDP) - the Pentium N4200, or the _Celeron N3450_, or the Celeron N3350. Our review sample, the LIVA-ZN33 is based on the Intel Celeron N3350.If I were state that "it's great that this phone can be equipped with 128GB of storage" in a review about a Samsung Galaxy phone, where in particular the 64GB model was reviewed, my comment would still be
1) Relevant.
2) Obvious given that all electronics products get launched with different configurations.
Responding back that "Hey, this phone has 64GB of storage" is neither enlightening nor relevant to someone commenting that a product can be equipped with 128GB of storage if one chooses to purchase that particular SKU.
The proper way to respond back if you didn't realize that would be "Oh, gotcha!" or "Yeah, that's an interesting point!" rather than pushing the blame back to me, as if I'm somehow at any fault of you not understanding that there are different SKUs of this particular model available.
extide - Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - link
And it even supports AES-NI -- which I rely on because I make very heavy use of OpenVPN. I have been able to saturate my 300Mbit connection on a reasonably slow processor (albeit faster than this) with AES-NI -- I doubt I would even get close without it -- especially on an Atom.mckirkus - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Torn between this and an Asrock dual Intel LAN mini-itx build with a low power i3. The i3 will get you hardware encryption but it's probably ridiculous overkill for most.huhn - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
what's the point of the refresh rate test?i know intel was using the wrong math for 23p years ago but that doesn't mean a perfect 24 hz for 24p is any good.
the display refreshrate in madVR is calculated from the system clock and the GPU clock (pretty obvious that it is using the same clock generator for both) but that not important for perfect playback.
for perfect playback a GPU clock that is close to the audio clock is needed without frame drops or repeats and this look pretty bad on this system. 16 mins is not good at all.
the clock deviation is relative high and the drop/repeat every X mins is pretty low on the screen screen.
for better judgment a video should be played for 10 min+ and the audio volume should be changed at the start of playback a couple of times to see the real drop/repeat frame every X sec/mins/hours/days.
the used audio device can play a huge roll in this too.
but what so ever i don't see any gain from the reported refresh rate it a very unimportant number.
SquarePeg - Thursday, March 30, 2017 - link
Everything about the $180 model just screams "Chromebox".Namisecond - Monday, April 3, 2017 - link
It probably started life in design as one, but things probably didn't work out... :)Meteor2 - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Why doesn't Anandtech use a common benchmark suite across all classes of computer? Couldn't you at least run Geekbench 4 and Jetstream (via Chrome) on everything? I know there are arguements for and against all benchmarks -- I wish you'd run a straight Handbrake x264 to x265 transcode of 1080p material on everything you can -- but I think GB4 and Jetstream minimise inter-platform differences and have strong real-world relevance.Teknobug - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Really... are we still using 2C/2T systems in 2017?rocky12345 - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Nice review looks like a nice little media station hooked to a TV. ECS I did not even know they were still around. Do they still make Mother boards? If I remember right they used to make lower end mother boards back in the day.Arbie - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Yeah, ECS motherboards were the ones stacked to the ceiling on Frys Electronics "Returns" bench.Death666Angel - Saturday, April 1, 2017 - link
I had the legendary ECS K7S5A which had SD RAM and DDR RAM simultaneously. It had a SiS 735 chipset, which was finicky, but cheap. Oh the days of competing chipsets.DocNo - Friday, March 31, 2017 - link
Ugh - why do vendors put two NICs in these things that are based on anything other than Intel chipsets? Realtek may be OK for desktop use but suck for heavy network loads. I could use a boatload of these with pfSense. And they may work fine, but so many issues with crappy Realtek and Broadcom NICs have me to the point where I don't even want to bother trying :pItselectric - Saturday, April 1, 2017 - link
They've gotten better; not intel; but still better.CharonPDX - Monday, April 3, 2017 - link
Seems like an odd choice to not include even ONE USB port on the back. I mean, replace the mini DisplayPort with a USB type C port, at least. Then the user can choose between using it as a display or for peripherals. (Since 99% of people wanting to use it for display would need to use an adapter anyway.) Heck, then it would go great with a USB-C-equipped DisplayPort-protocol monitor, like the LG UltraFine 4K Display.indianajames - Monday, April 3, 2017 - link
Man.... I was really into this as a replacement for my circa 2012 Foxconn NT-A3500 HTPC setup now that I upgraded to a 4k/HDR TV..... until I noticed it doesn't have a HDCP 2.2 capable HDMI 2.0 port.... kinda kills it...