Well both are low-level APIs, so both are complicated to use. I think most who use either will do it through some game engine, essentially shifting much of the work from Microsoft/nVidia/AMD/Intels to Unity/Unreal etc. but I'm guessing the biggest difference is platform support, as far as I know there's no Vulkan on XBone while there's no DX12 on anything but PC and XBone. I think that's far more likely to decide what you'll end up using.
It's a little worse that that for DX12, as it's only available on Windows 10 (not 7, 8.1, OSX or Linux), which is just under 50% of Steam users. Currently only 42% of Steam gamers can do DX12.
Which is still the more users than DX11 Steam users. 75% of Steam users have a DX12 GPU which is rather significant, it's just that 34% of those people aren't on Windows 10 which won't last much longer in my opinion. As Microsoft gives Windows 10 more gaming features (as well as HDR support and better HiRes scaling, both coming at the end of this month with the Creator's Update) more and more people will get pulled to W10.
Umm, no...Many of us won't be switching regardless until 2020+ ;) I have never had a steam account (and most of the people I know refuse to use it also - prefer GOG etc). So while steam may show that, it's not exactly representative of the whole WORLD. DX12 is not a motivator for me in any way shape or form. Vulkan vs. DX12 game, Vulkan or you don't get my money. PERIOD. I'm guessing more devs will go Vulkan soon like star citizen guys. Win10 is dead to me and if enough stuff is vulkan by 2020, I have no need for MSFT again except for job related stuff, since I'm still on the IT treadmill, but that may change if I decide networking or linux is more attractive soon. Just a little more time and things coming to fruition and I'm out of MSFT. None of the features you mention mean much to me (4k not going to be my next monitor, etc).
I wasn't talking about non-Steam users? So not sure why you felt the need to say what you said.
Also, why can't you enjoy Windows 10? Not only is it faster than Windows 7, but it has many more features. Don't want it talking to Microsoft? Your Windows 7 already does. Personally I don't want my computer talking to Microsoft, so I micromanage my firewall rules and make changes in the Registry as well as in Group Policy to prevent it. Not a single network communication goes to Microsoft without me allowing it, and right now all I allow is licensing communication for Windows and Office. Which is what I did for Windows 7 as well so it wasn't like Windows 10 was more effort for me. So Microsoft can't collect telemetry on me, I got a free upgrade to W10 so I gave them no money, and I get to enjoy all of the software features that I want, the more stable drivers, and my Operating System is setup to take advantage of all the technologies and improvements that are built into my GPU and CPU on the hardware level so I'm getting the double whammy of a better coded OS and an OS that can leverage my hardware to the fullest extent. The HiRes scaling doesn't matter to me at the moment, but the HDR does for my photo and video editing as well as my gameplay so those two things I mentioned are really just icing on the cake.
Barring just being ignorant and refusing to realize what Windows 7 is and unless there is a compatibility issue, then I can not think of a single reason to NOT be on Windows 10 if you have the sufficient technical skill. Perhaps you don't?
TheJian, I read your comment as it claimed up front to negate Freakie's argument. But it doesn't begin to do that. Only a microscopic percentage of PC gamers will be buying graphics cards and not using Windows - hardly "many of us". This article is about the difference between Vulkan and DX12 - not between Linux or whatever and Windows. Save your rant for a different venue.
Arbie, in your microscopic world everyone might be gaming on Windows. In the real world most people use their PCs for work first and then gaming second. TheJian's arguments are perfectly valid, as he points out there's plenty of people gaming on systems that are not W10 and for those we have Vulkan. I'm more than happy to see this test prove Vulkan is just as good as DX12. Freakie, the OS should serve me, not the other way round. If I have to spend time and effort to disable things that shouldn't be there in the first place, then the OS is not for me. And no, my W7 does not have any of the telemetry updates as it miraculously allows you to choose which updates to get, unlike the "upgrade" W10.
quote: If I have to spend time and effort to disable things that shouldn't be there in the first place, then the OS is not for me.
I wonder then what operating system are you going to use then since there isn't single one that wouldn't require getting rid of things each specific user considers useless...
benedict, not everyone in the real world plays games, but in the game world most people are windows (or console), there's nothing microscopic about this
The set of AAA PC games currently available that use Vulkan, run on Win 7, and are available on platforms other than Steam is what, zero games? Doom is the only AAA Vulkan game that comes to mind, and it's Steam-only.
My standpoint? I don't care about the OS, I don't care about the graphics API, I don't care about the delivery platform, I care about just one thing: the games. If you won't play a game because it uses one API instead of another, then you don't really care about the games, and they're the most important part.
Vulkan has more instructions and can be used on Linux and below Windows 10. Combined with the performance advantage, which yes goes beyond this artificial test, it's generally preferred. Except that it only accepts the GLSL language, while Dx12 and the consoles accept HLSL. Which makes it easier to support Dx12. While there's new API tools and translation tools being made to make it easier for Vulkan, the above is still why almost anyone not MS supports Dx12 over Vulkan right now. But hey easier is easier.
I have a gut feeling that Nvidia's drivers are more CPU dependent that AMD's, and more Intel dependent on that, crippling Ryzen's gaming performance. If Vega proves to be competitive against Nvidia's offerings, I believe then would be real test of the best gaming CPU.
Hopefully when Vega comes out we'll see some AMD/Intel Nvidia/AMD cross-testing with DX12 or Vulkan titles. Honestly I'm more interested in seeing how Ryzen 5 and 3 do at sub-$200 price brackets.
I believe Ryan and Ian have said that the review GPUs and review CPUs are on different continents. So unless Anandtech buys one or the other, they can't test the latest GPUs/CPUs together.
Yup, Ian is in Britain (I think London, specifically) and Ryan is somewhere in the U.S. (still haven't figured out where lol). CPUs and GPUs are separated by at least a few thousand miles :D
It's not particularly clever that a hardware site can't do the necessary tests just because of distance, it's gotten to the situation where I'm wondering if it's even worth reading at this point.
Based on my many years' experience in wrangling with tech-support and customer service personnel -- you can tell the customer as many excuses as you like, but if in the end you don't deliver what the customer want, he/she'll just turn around and walk away - there are other places that can deliver.
If your hiring policy lead to your inability in giving the readers what they want, it doesn't matter of how "expertised" you are.
Unfortunately, you don't pay for what you read here, so you can just go ahead and forget about this site, nobody will care. You can never get this much quality content elsewhere assuming you don't pay for analyst's like linley group, etc.
I wonder how DX12 and Vulkan compare to the DX12 derived language in the XBone and Mantle derived language in the PS4. I realize of course that it is basically impossible to test due to hardware differences.
I wonder if the source of AMD's advantage with both DX12 & Vulkan is due to the PS4/XB1. When Mantle came out wasn't supposed to be a console like API for the PC or some jargon like that? GCN being the base on which both were developed seems to help them a good bit.
The numbers make me wonder, it seems perhaps that if you have an Nvidia system with a low end card you benefit more from Vulkan. I wonder if a card lower than a 1060 would produce a pronounced lead, perhaps even more than the 1060.
Actually this test is not really indicative of overall performance. It's a draw call test... look at draw calls in actual games, it's not that high. Anyway, with that being said, in two of the three cards it's basically a tie. The outlier is the 1060, and this is with a IVB-E hexacore CPU. The 1060 is better paired with a sub-$200 processor on a cheaper consumer platform board. The difference might all but vanish. Either way, the draw call test in no way models a system running an actual game.
The only way to know would be to see both APIs implemented by all the major devs, so you could get a suitable sample size of implementations. But there's no way that would happen. Given the strong uptake of DX12 and the relatively tempered enthusiasm for Vulkan, I suspect DX12 is slightly easier or more familiar to use. But otherwise I'd say they're both excellent and I'm happy to see either one implemented in modern games. Helps people get the most out of their system.
"Actually this test is not really indicative of overall performance"
Very true and what many people replying don't seem to have grasped. It's the bottlenecks that matter as they are what actually slow you down. If draw calls on DX12 are not a bottle neck then it doesn't matter how many more Vulcan can do - game performance will be the same.
Hence actual game performance will be down to which API can produce the most balanced system with the fewest bottlenecks, which is not necessarily the one that is spectacularly fast in one area. Hence while this test is fun to look at, it's not necessarily particularly helpful in telling us which API is better.
Sure, it's entirely possible. That said, Futuremark is good at what they do, so I would be a bit surprised if it was something they were doing (as opposed to the drivers, intrinsic properties of the API, etc).
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SirPerro - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
What's the difference in features between both APIs? Is it much easier to use DX12 compared to Vulkan?I'm asking this because I don't see many reasons to use DX12, except for the answers to the questions above.
Kjella - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Well both are low-level APIs, so both are complicated to use. I think most who use either will do it through some game engine, essentially shifting much of the work from Microsoft/nVidia/AMD/Intels to Unity/Unreal etc. but I'm guessing the biggest difference is platform support, as far as I know there's no Vulkan on XBone while there's no DX12 on anything but PC and XBone. I think that's far more likely to decide what you'll end up using.PseudoKnight - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
It's a little worse that that for DX12, as it's only available on Windows 10 (not 7, 8.1, OSX or Linux), which is just under 50% of Steam users. Currently only 42% of Steam gamers can do DX12.Freakie - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Which is still the more users than DX11 Steam users. 75% of Steam users have a DX12 GPU which is rather significant, it's just that 34% of those people aren't on Windows 10 which won't last much longer in my opinion. As Microsoft gives Windows 10 more gaming features (as well as HDR support and better HiRes scaling, both coming at the end of this month with the Creator's Update) more and more people will get pulled to W10.TheJian - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Umm, no...Many of us won't be switching regardless until 2020+ ;) I have never had a steam account (and most of the people I know refuse to use it also - prefer GOG etc). So while steam may show that, it's not exactly representative of the whole WORLD. DX12 is not a motivator for me in any way shape or form. Vulkan vs. DX12 game, Vulkan or you don't get my money. PERIOD. I'm guessing more devs will go Vulkan soon like star citizen guys. Win10 is dead to me and if enough stuff is vulkan by 2020, I have no need for MSFT again except for job related stuff, since I'm still on the IT treadmill, but that may change if I decide networking or linux is more attractive soon. Just a little more time and things coming to fruition and I'm out of MSFT. None of the features you mention mean much to me (4k not going to be my next monitor, etc).Freakie - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
I wasn't talking about non-Steam users? So not sure why you felt the need to say what you said.Also, why can't you enjoy Windows 10? Not only is it faster than Windows 7, but it has many more features. Don't want it talking to Microsoft? Your Windows 7 already does. Personally I don't want my computer talking to Microsoft, so I micromanage my firewall rules and make changes in the Registry as well as in Group Policy to prevent it. Not a single network communication goes to Microsoft without me allowing it, and right now all I allow is licensing communication for Windows and Office. Which is what I did for Windows 7 as well so it wasn't like Windows 10 was more effort for me. So Microsoft can't collect telemetry on me, I got a free upgrade to W10 so I gave them no money, and I get to enjoy all of the software features that I want, the more stable drivers, and my Operating System is setup to take advantage of all the technologies and improvements that are built into my GPU and CPU on the hardware level so I'm getting the double whammy of a better coded OS and an OS that can leverage my hardware to the fullest extent. The HiRes scaling doesn't matter to me at the moment, but the HDR does for my photo and video editing as well as my gameplay so those two things I mentioned are really just icing on the cake.
Barring just being ignorant and refusing to realize what Windows 7 is and unless there is a compatibility issue, then I can not think of a single reason to NOT be on Windows 10 if you have the sufficient technical skill. Perhaps you don't?
Arbie - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
TheJian, I read your comment as it claimed up front to negate Freakie's argument. But it doesn't begin to do that. Only a microscopic percentage of PC gamers will be buying graphics cards and not using Windows - hardly "many of us". This article is about the difference between Vulkan and DX12 - not between Linux or whatever and Windows. Save your rant for a different venue.benedict - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Arbie, in your microscopic world everyone might be gaming on Windows. In the real world most people use their PCs for work first and then gaming second. TheJian's arguments are perfectly valid, as he points out there's plenty of people gaming on systems that are not W10 and for those we have Vulkan. I'm more than happy to see this test prove Vulkan is just as good as DX12.Freakie, the OS should serve me, not the other way round. If I have to spend time and effort to disable things that shouldn't be there in the first place, then the OS is not for me. And no, my W7 does not have any of the telemetry updates as it miraculously allows you to choose which updates to get, unlike the "upgrade" W10.
HollyDOL - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
quote: If I have to spend time and effort to disable things that shouldn't be there in the first place, then the OS is not for me.I wonder then what operating system are you going to use then since there isn't single one that wouldn't require getting rid of things each specific user considers useless...
kn00tcn - Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - link
benedict, not everyone in the real world plays games, but in the game world most people are windows (or console), there's nothing microscopic about thisGuspaz - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
The set of AAA PC games currently available that use Vulkan, run on Win 7, and are available on platforms other than Steam is what, zero games? Doom is the only AAA Vulkan game that comes to mind, and it's Steam-only.My standpoint? I don't care about the OS, I don't care about the graphics API, I don't care about the delivery platform, I care about just one thing: the games. If you won't play a game because it uses one API instead of another, then you don't really care about the games, and they're the most important part.
Frenetic Pony - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Vulkan has more instructions and can be used on Linux and below Windows 10. Combined with the performance advantage, which yes goes beyond this artificial test, it's generally preferred. Except that it only accepts the GLSL language, while Dx12 and the consoles accept HLSL. Which makes it easier to support Dx12. While there's new API tools and translation tools being made to make it easier for Vulkan, the above is still why almost anyone not MS supports Dx12 over Vulkan right now. But hey easier is easier.tuxRoller - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Also can be used on Android. Considering that has the largest install base of any os i wouldn't say it means nothing.lilmoe - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
I have a gut feeling that Nvidia's drivers are more CPU dependent that AMD's, and more Intel dependent on that, crippling Ryzen's gaming performance. If Vega proves to be competitive against Nvidia's offerings, I believe then would be real test of the best gaming CPU.Alexvrb - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Hopefully when Vega comes out we'll see some AMD/Intel Nvidia/AMD cross-testing with DX12 or Vulkan titles. Honestly I'm more interested in seeing how Ryzen 5 and 3 do at sub-$200 price brackets.lilmoe - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Is it possible to make the same test with a Ryzen CPU with both the 1060 and 480? I'm very interested in the results.Meteor2 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
I believe Ryan and Ian have said that the review GPUs and review CPUs are on different continents. So unless Anandtech buys one or the other, they can't test the latest GPUs/CPUs together.Ian Cutress - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
You are right.However I do have an RX 480 and a 1060 6GB to hand for my new test suite. I'll run some numbers later today perhaps :)
Dr. Swag - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Yup, Ian is in Britain (I think London, specifically) and Ryan is somewhere in the U.S. (still haven't figured out where lol). CPUs and GPUs are separated by at least a few thousand miles :DHomeworldFound - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
It's not particularly clever that a hardware site can't do the necessary tests just because of distance, it's gotten to the situation where I'm wondering if it's even worth reading at this point.Ian Cutress - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
We hire based on expertise, not location.geekman1024 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Based on my many years' experience in wrangling with tech-support and customer service personnel -- you can tell the customer as many excuses as you like, but if in the end you don't deliver what the customer want, he/she'll just turn around and walk away - there are other places that can deliver.If your hiring policy lead to your inability in giving the readers what they want, it doesn't matter of how "expertised" you are.
Lord-Bryan - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Unfortunately, you don't pay for what you read here, so you can just go ahead and forget about this site, nobody will care.You can never get this much quality content elsewhere assuming you don't pay for analyst's like linley group, etc.
at80eighty - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
The entitlement the users of this site has shown for the caliber of free content we get, is just mind shattering.You want your exacting standards met, start ponying up and earn the right to make them answerable to you
garbagedisposal - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Seriously trying to give some kind of life advice about tech support with a name like geekman1024? Are you joking?Meteor2 - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Really? You care about _usernames_?RiZad - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Not that its the same as what you are asking for but... here is my result with a 1700x and a GTX 1080.http://www.3dmark.com/aot/201803
unrulycow - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
I wonder how DX12 and Vulkan compare to the DX12 derived language in the XBone and Mantle derived language in the PS4. I realize of course that it is basically impossible to test due to hardware differences.Gigaplex - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
I'd expect Vulkan to be fairly comparable to the PS4 since Vulkan itself is also derived from Mantle.Manch - Monday, March 27, 2017 - link
I wonder if the source of AMD's advantage with both DX12 & Vulkan is due to the PS4/XB1. When Mantle came out wasn't supposed to be a console like API for the PC or some jargon like that? GCN being the base on which both were developed seems to help them a good bit.sor - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
The numbers make me wonder, it seems perhaps that if you have an Nvidia system with a low end card you benefit more from Vulkan. I wonder if a card lower than a 1060 would produce a pronounced lead, perhaps even more than the 1060.mattevansc3 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
So the main takeaway is that NVIDIA still can't do a DX12 driver?HighTech4US - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Quote: the main takeaway is that NVIDIA still can't do a DX12 driver?Yea they only got 8x-13x improvement over DX11. Oh the humanity!!!
Rock1m1 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
My take away from your comment is that you have no idea what you are seeing.DanNeely - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
If you want to engage in cut rate trolling AMDs DX11 scores are proportionally worse vs NVidia than the gap in DX12/vulcan on the 1060.Rock1m1 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
This is very interesting, I thought for sure Nvidia DX12 API performance will be a higher than Vulcan and opposite for AMD.Alexvrb - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Actually this test is not really indicative of overall performance. It's a draw call test... look at draw calls in actual games, it's not that high. Anyway, with that being said, in two of the three cards it's basically a tie. The outlier is the 1060, and this is with a IVB-E hexacore CPU. The 1060 is better paired with a sub-$200 processor on a cheaper consumer platform board. The difference might all but vanish. Either way, the draw call test in no way models a system running an actual game.The only way to know would be to see both APIs implemented by all the major devs, so you could get a suitable sample size of implementations. But there's no way that would happen. Given the strong uptake of DX12 and the relatively tempered enthusiasm for Vulkan, I suspect DX12 is slightly easier or more familiar to use. But otherwise I'd say they're both excellent and I'm happy to see either one implemented in modern games. Helps people get the most out of their system.
Dribble - Monday, March 27, 2017 - link
"Actually this test is not really indicative of overall performance"Very true and what many people replying don't seem to have grasped. It's the bottlenecks that matter as they are what actually slow you down. If draw calls on DX12 are not a bottle neck then it doesn't matter how many more Vulcan can do - game performance will be the same.
Hence actual game performance will be down to which API can produce the most balanced system with the fewest bottlenecks, which is not necessarily the one that is spectacularly fast in one area. Hence while this test is fun to look at, it's not necessarily particularly helpful in telling us which API is better.
Jtaylor1986 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Any chance that the application is what's causing these strange differences rather than the API or the driver?Ryan Smith - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Sure, it's entirely possible. That said, Futuremark is good at what they do, so I would be a bit surprised if it was something they were doing (as opposed to the drivers, intrinsic properties of the API, etc).boeush - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
"Khronos’s take on a low-level API – and a decedent of sorts of Mantle – ..."That's harsh, Ryan. Declaring Vulcan DOA at this stage seems a tad premature, no? =}
Ryan Smith - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
*facepalm*Ugg, that's embarrassing.
Autocorrect, you have failed me for the last time.
boeush - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Well hey, at least it had you saying Vulcan was only sort-of dead... :DYeah, auto-incorrect is a pox on all mankind. But it does have its moments...
RBFL - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Wouldn't that be flailed?AndrewJacksonZA - Monday, March 27, 2017 - link
Hehehe.Typo - Sunday, March 26, 2017 - link
Last time I ran the API test on my system even mantle was still edging out dx12 by about 2 million on my r9 290