What looks interesting is that the 13inch Touch has a 28w CPU + a smaller battery when compared to the non-touch version. Wonder how battery life is going to be affected by that.
the 13" pro mind you, or course the 15" got a 45W CPU.. although my current rMBP is using a 45w CPU and a 100W GPU. They cut the GPU TDP quite a bit from when they used Nvidia.
I really wish they would start using Nvidia again and quit signing these contracts with AMD that tie their hands for 3-5 years. after all, nobody beats Nvidia at Perf per watt in mobile GPU's
CUDA is almost unheard of in the Mac world. OSX itself uses OpenCL, as do all of Apples Pro apps. The fact that nVidia doesnt support the latest OpenCL is one of the reasons they have not been used for a few years now.
Apple uses OpenCL as is an open standard, wisely they won't tie to a proprietary api that is supported and owned by only by one manufacturer. I really wonder how CUDA reach so far in time.
Nvidia has a ton of marketshare and pretty tremendous mindshare.
It's one of the reasons that I'm still nervous about getting a vrr monitor because I'm not convinced that freesync will be the "winner" just because it's in an official standard. Nvidia has shown that they can play by their own rules and still "win".
Apple prefers developers use Metal - it's own proprietary graphics standard. Metal is much faster than OpenCL. And Metal runs in iOS, MacOS, and TVOS. OpenCL is the backup.
CUDA is a proprietary api owned by Nvidia on the other hand OpenCL is an open standard that in the begining was created by Apple, IBM, AMD, Intel and Nvidia. Adobe for instance uses OpenCL to accelerate processing operations. So, OpenCL is future proof. "Most applications or libraries don't support OpenCL" do you have any data to support such a thing? Think a bit instead of just incorporating pure NVidia corporate bs.
Anybody who calls out "pure NVidia(sic) corporate bs" while championing OpenCL as implemented by Apple is either being sarcastic or doesn't read much.
A few seconds with Google and a few minutes/hours/days of reading will clarify the situation.
Your argument of open vs. proprietary only applies if there is a genuine effort to embrace and improve the quality of the choice that you make.
Many people, if not most, think that Apple hasn't given much support to the OpenCL driver used in Macs. At least for couple of years.
Here's one of many complaints. Please read the comment at the end of the article. It's dated October of this year which presumably shows that the problem continues. I don't believe the author has any axe to grind with Apple. He's purely motivated by his frustration with trying to make an app work when the OS doesn't work like it should. http://www.fractalarchitect.net/blog/2015/10/apple...
The Polaris 11 GPUs in the new MacBook Pros achieve over 50 GFLOPS/W for the Radeon Pro 460. Nvidia does not offer 35W Pascal GPUs. GP107 is a couple of months away from a mobile solution.
In short - it "beats Nvidia at Perf per watt in mobile GPU's [sic]".
But I don't want a 35w part. I want a 75w NVIDIA GTX 1060, 100w 1070, or 150w 1080. I need to drive that 5K monitor; tiny AMD parts are not going to cut it.
35w is not much, in fact thats a big reduction from what apple has typically put in the large 15" MBP's. The last time apple used Nvidia was 2012, and they used a 650m, which had a TDP of 45w. They stole 10w of TDP from the MBP line somewhere down the development process.
that chassis is good up to 100w, and the cpu is only 45w
Yeah, but it's the 13" Touch compared to 13" non-Touch. The 6360u is a 15w TDP part, the 6267u on the other hand is a 28w TDP part. Not sure how they managed same battery life with a smaller capacity battery.
Sure thing pal. Apple absolutely charges silly prices for upgrades sometimes, they were long particularly infamous when it came to memory. But not always.
It should not be M.2 SSD in the new MacBook Pro. From the product spec Apple released on the web site, new MacBook Pro uses "PCIe-based onboard SSD". Will that be like MacBook, "Apple proprietary NVMe SSD controller + NAND Flash"?
The drive is $1300, he is referring to the UPGRADE costing $1200. When you are upgrading you aren't starting with nothing, so Apple is still making a mint on that upgrade. It's not nearly as bad as some of the costs they have charged in the past, but it's still giving them hefty margins.
Please get a clue before posting. You can do this by looking up the price for the only M.2 2TB on the market to get an idea of what the actual price of that is.
So contrary to your outrage I'd say this is actually the first time for Apple that space upgrade is somewhat reasonably priced...
It still is a lot if you do the math: You're upgrading from a 512 GB which has on its own a retail price of about $329.99 which is embedded in the price of the machine and let's say they charge you $300 for it overall. To update to a 2TB drive which has a retail price of about $1299.99 you have to add on top of those $300 another $1200. That makes you $1500 for a drive that most likely cost them $900 or less through negotiations and volume discounts... I agree it's not outrageous but seeing the total cost of the machine I'd say it's indecent at best.
It certainly is a lot of money but SSDs in this size are expensive, then it's a custom build incurring extra cost and of course there also has to be a markup. You could try to compare it with other vendors, except that no one else even offers 2 TB at this time, but even if you look at the Dell XPS 15 with it's slower SSD implementation: going from 512GB to 1TB costs $400 so Apple charges exactly 3 times that and prices at the high end absolutely never scale linearly...
I actually think the price is pretty reasonable for the first time ever on SSD. One being Apple pick some of the best quality NAND. If you account this in the price of the calculation it makes a little more sense. Of coz it is by no means cheap. Just comparatively speaking reasonable.
I'm curious to find out if the 15" will support Freesync with external displays. There is conflicting information out there, but according to the Thunderbolt website, Thunderbolt 3 does support DisplayPort 1.2a
The software aspect is going to be interesting as well. As far as I know, macOS doesn't support variable refresh rate out of the box? In fact, I've been using SwitchResX for years to even be able to use custom refresh rates outside of 30hz+ PAL+60hz. And then there's the Bootcamp aspect. Many macOS users switch over to Windows for their gaming needs because games just tend to run better in a myriad of ways. In my experience, stock AMD/NVidia drivers have worked fine in bootcamp. Let's hope there's not anything getting in the way of Freesync compatibility. I'll have my fingers crossed.
Whoops, linked the wrong site. Only place I can find 1.2a support on Thunderbolt 3 is a Technology Brief press release PDF on the thunderbolt site. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/fi... If you're not in the business of clicking on random PDF's in the comment sections on tech blogs, googling "thunderbolt 3 displayport 1.2a" should bring it up as the third result.
OS X apparently does support variable refresh. nVidia quietly added G-sync support to their web drivers recently. Not sure if the nVidia drivers bundled with Sierra support G-sync.
$1500 for a 13" laptop with 8GB of RAM is difficult to justify. I really wanted to pick up a new one for some dev work, but now I may look at picking up a used previous gen MBP.
Look at this, right now on launch date of these new 13.3" MacBook Pros, HP Spectre 13.3 2-in-1 laptop costs $986 on SlickDeals:
Specs Intel Core i7-7500U Kaby Lake Dual-Core Processor ((2.7 GHz, up to 3.5 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) 8GB Memory 256GB SSD Intel HD Graphics 620 13.3" 1920 x 1080 FHD Touchscreen LED IPS Display WiFi + Bluetooth Backlit Keyboard Win 10 Home $986
Doubling the RAM from 8GB to 16GB costs $40 with HP. Doubling the 256GB PCIe SSD from 256GB to 512GB costs $100. This $140 upgrade cost has another 15% off discount, bringing the price of the upgraded Spectre to $1105 USD.
Now I am going to take the 13.3" MacBook Pro for $1799, upgrade the CPU to the 3.5Ghz dual-core i5 (+$100), upgrade 8GB of memory to 16GB (+$200), and I still end up with a slower, 6th generation CPU, and 1/2 the PCIe SSD of the HP, and the total price of the MacBook Pro 13.3" rises to $2099!!
$1105 HP Spectre still has superior specs to the $2099 MacBook Pro. But it gets even worse:
The Spectre is 0.54" thin vs. 0.59" for the Mac, and it's 2.85 lbs in weight vs. 3.02 lbs for the Mac. The Spectre also has a bigger 57.8 Wh Lithium-ion polymer Battery vs. 49.2 Wh for the MacPro.
It's basically a $1000 savings by going with a superior Windows 10 laptop that can be used to buy a 50-60" 4K LCD to hook it up to OR build a separate i7-7700K + 16GB DDR4 3200 desktop! Amazing.
Regular 2016 13" Macbook Pro with Skylake: $1499 Same Exact 13" Macbook Pro with skylake but with OLED Touch bar included: $1799
Those machines are identical except for the touch bar. Price difference is $300, so $200 or $300 for the touch bar is for all intents and purposes, what apple is charging for it.
my bad, the regular has a lower end CPU but looking at Intel's tray prices, the price intel charges is only $50 more for the 28w part. so somewhere in that $300 price difference is two thunderbolt ports, and $50 cpu upgrade, and a OLED bar.
so the price of the touch bar is still estimated at $200 after you consider all of that stuff.
:sigh: @Morawka, there's a lot more than just a Touch Bar difference. There's the T1 chip, there's Touch ID, there's Apple Pay, there's all the R&D investments over years that went into these new features. Then you have 2x more USB-C ports.
Then you can also add cost to the non-Touch Bar version of the new 13" MBP because it has a 10% larger battery.
Finally, there are innumerable unknowns in terms of both HW and profit margins that make it impossible to know how much 'just' the Touch Bar costs. For instance, does Apple use slower NAND for it's entry-level MacBook Pro that is replacing the old 13" MBA? Are these lower-end MBPs using a slightly less energy efficient chipset or display panel thereby negating that higher capacity battery because it's more cost effective/ Or, is Apple getting a lower profit margin on this MBA replacement in order to attract buyers at a certain price point, or are they increasing the profit margin in order to maintain a per-unit profit?
These questions are endless. There's simply too many variables in which we're not privy for you to make a claim that they are charging a specific price for the Touch Bar.
Comparing MSRP against MSRP, the $1050 base x360 lines up pretty neatly against the $1500 MBP without the Touch Bar, as both have 15W TDP CPUs. The gap does widen further when upgrading both; HP's upgrades are much less expensive. It doesn't seem reasonable to compare a temporary sale price against MSRP, but feel free if that's your jam.
So, here's what you get for the extra $450:
- stronger sustained performance (same chassis as the 28W TDP $1700 model) - stronger graphics in the macbook (HD 540 w/ 64MB EDRAM vs HD 620) - faster PCIE SSD - higher density, wide-gamut, factory-calibrated display - 3x3 wifi - haptic feedback trackpad - no HP bloatware - OS X (forcing preference)
Of course, the HP has some features the mac does not have: touch screen, 360 degree hinge, etc. If those things are important then you're probably won't cross-shop the Mac.
There is no chance the mac has equal CPU performance to the Spectre as the Spectre has Kaby and the Mac has Skylake. They have already said there is no IPC increase but they have improved speed step and clocked higher within the same TDP. So no, you will never get Spectre performance out of the Mac when it comes to CPU-centric tasks.
I will never buy an HP Laptop again ... I don't care what the price is ... it's just not worth it. I have had a couple MacBook Pro's now and they are reliable and dependable work-horses, that gave me very few problems. My time is money and I won't ever do the HP laptop thing ever again.
Sure. Though, we don't really know what HP light bulb was Teamswitcher referring to. There's a huge difference between cheap consumer HPs and, say, Elitebook bulbs.
Exactly right. I am no HP fan and I hate their printers but my work laptop is a beast. It's light, fast, and very stable. It isn't a cheapy $300 deal, it's got the SSD etc. and I love it. Within the VW empire they make the Golf and they make the Gallardo. The two are not the same even though they are from the same company.
Me too. Back in 2012 I bought one of these HP Beats Edition laptops. The BIOS was acting up many times. After a while, the DVD drive wasn't working. The Synaptics touchpad was problematic at times too. I can't believe I paid 1200 bucks for that piece of garbage.
The MacBook Pro would actually have a slight performance edge in CPU tasks thanks to the eDRAM provided by the Iris graphics. Speaking of graphics, the GPU in the MacBook Pro is decisively faster too. This is useful for driving the higher resolution screen the MacBook Pro offers.
That HP machine certainly isn't a superior machine for half the price. Are this differences in specs worth $1000 for what you'd get on the MacBook Pro though? I'd actually argue no but they do cover some of that price gap.
I'm just not quite sure that more than 1080 looks much better at 15" or less. Certainly it does on larger screens, but not smaller. Plus that display is a screen touch.
Depends on what is workhorse supposed to be doing. For someone who already has investment in Windows software (that can be migrated from old to new machine), getting Mac further increases expense with all the software required on top of hardware.
For dev work just get a dell or surface (and your preferred version of linux or windows), with the remaining $400 you can pick up an an old mac mini and use that for compile and validation. Macs have never been a good option for development, too expensive and too predictable (easier to find issues when you have variety!)
Yeah. I do all of my .NET/C# and JavaScript development on a SP4, but I want to tinker with iOS and OS X dev as well. I suppose the mini would cut it, but I'd rather have a laptop.
Intel has recently decided to let vendors underclock chips to hit the custom power/cooling envelope. Sadly they don't require vendors to reveal the differences, so it's hard to what actual real world performance you'll get.
These days I transfer photos wirelessly. I just enable Wifi on my Sony Alpha and then pick the shots I want off the Camera and let it sync. I do this with my iPad and then let it sync through iCloud.
yea that works with your camera, but my family and friends ask me to put their photo's on disc, or thumb drives a lot, and your method only works if you have a wifi camera.
Those cards are expensive, slow to save the files, slow to transfer them and have deleterious effects on your camera's battery life. There are an awful lot of scenarios where those drawbacks are a killer for professional usage.
You still don't think that SD reader would be, say, easier and more logical solution? For Pros who already have big money invested in expensive media cards, at least?
Please tell us why professional photographers at media events still have "card runners" that shuttle the SD cards around because the wi-fi doesn't cut it for huge files? This is not a "pro" device anymore than their iPad Pro is a "pro" device.
That's really slow unless Sony's wifi happens to be 5x quicker than just about everyone else's and you've got a really solid signal... Fast SD cards/readers can easily surpass 150MB/s these data.
That being said, a Type C reader or an old one on an adapter isn't too much of a bother IMO... It might bug pros who'd rather not carry more stuff but built in readers always lag behind current standards and at the highest pros aren't even using SD anyway (CFast etc).
Dunno, if you are a photographer you can either get a wifi enabled camera, a wifi enabled microsd card, or carry a tiny microsd dongle. So I suspect you are either a photographer with enough gear that a dongle is negligible, or you use your phone.
"Dunno, if you are a photographer you can either get a wifi enabled camera, a wifi enabled microsd card, or carry a tiny microsd dongle. So I suspect you are either a photographer with enough gear that a dongle is negligible, or you use your phone."
Try uploading 4+ 128GB cards over wifi... I dare you... for most newer cards a USB3.0 card reader is practically mandatory if you don't want to sit for hours waiting for files to transfer
If you are a professional photographer, you already shoot with your camera tethered to your laptop or tablet so you are able to see the results you're getting as you go.
You seem to have a very narrow idea of what kind of shoot a professional photographer might be doing. If you're shooting outdoors on a camera with a decently high resolution sensor, one thing I can guarantee is that you're *not* using microSD, and trying to transfer tens or hundreds of gigabytes of photos over WiFi is *not* going to be fun. I would say you're probably using CompactFlash (or maybe XQD) anyway, but increasingly that's not the case.
Pros are probably using CFast or other formats at the high end anyway and/or using runners when time is really of the essence. Having to carry or adapt a small pocket reader might bother some but it's hardly a deal breaker, and it still makes a heck of a lot more sense than Wi-Fi for anything but really mobile use.
Tethered image capture is one of the basic functions of Adobe Lightroom and this is exactly the sort of thing real pros do on a shoot. How in the world do you imagine a professional photographer would use the tiny screen on the camera itself to preview their work during a shoot?
The images are immediately transferred from the tethered camera into software like Lightroom running on a laptop. The "tether" itself can be either a wired or wireless connection depending on how much you need to move around during the shoot.
The nice thing about this particular version of the display technology is that it's ten bits per pixel and Displaymate has called it the most color accurate display they have ever measured when it was added to the iPad and iPhone.
Gee, you know so much about the pros except for how they've been working for years now?
Hell, some of the more recent award winning kit for the Pros has been wireless tethering hardware designed to work just with iOS so that not only can can you see the images as you take them on an iPad, but clients present at the shoot can also see them wirelessly from their own iDevice without getting close enough to disturb the shoot.
I haven't been a wedding this year, but I have a hard time picturing the photographer with a camera in one hand, holding a laptop with the other, looking at every picture in between shots. I guess that's how they do it these days?
Not weddings, no, because you often only get one go at a shot. But for any studio work, digital cameras have been tethered for as long as I can remember. Press and sports photographers tether too, in order to get the images out as soon as possible.
Sports, I cannot remember seeing all those photographs around fields having anything but camera and tripod/monopod. Or any other "action/moment" scenario - red carpet, politics, wildlife, war, underwater...
What would be the point of having big screen preview, anyway? So you can figure out photo doesn't look dope enough, and ask Obama and Putin to shake hands again, just for your 2nd photo opportunity? Ask Ronaldo to replay his winning goal because you were reviewing previous snaps on your laptop and missed right moment? :)
Or... would you fire up hundreds/thousands of snaps, using bracketing, HDR... and relying on software to improve selected photos in post-process, if further improvement is needed?
That's about the only change I couldn't care less about... The built-in reader was only a convenience feature, some external readers are a lot faster...
Quintessential upgrades...other laptop manufactures are taking notes about that! Other than it being light, the price bump from like $200 hurts me a little...
I wonder what Is the settings for the I/O, and if u can use an apple pen on the track pad.
As a touch-typing sysadmin, I died a little inside seeing no physical ESC and function keys. And the remaining keys are getting even less travel (coz all we needed is an even thinner MBP)..
What is the problem? Just buy the 13" macbook pro with the physical esc key. I've typed on a macbook air, it's slightly different but seems pretty nice. I had no trouble touch typing quickly.
That may not work here, spikebike. The MacBook Air used the previous style keys while the 12" MacBook introduced the butterfly keys. We're now at the 2nd gen butterfly keys, so maybe they offer more travel, resistance, sound, feel, etc., but we'll have to use to know for sure if it's better or worse. Regardless, it seems silly if one considers that a deal breaker.
Most people whose workplaces give them MacBook Pros will also have an external keyboard and mouse for desk use (connected to a dock that was probably the cheapest dock on the market so everyone cries a little when they go to work).
Some people care enough to spend the money on a decent silent mechanical keyboard. Most, I find, simply don't care and use the keyboard they are given. Which for PC installations is the $5 Dell/HP keyboard and mouse!
I agree with this. I had to adapt to the rMBP keyboard after using PC keyboards forever, and it took some time and was annoying. I don't think it's a superior keyboard solution, at least not for me, but it is bearable. But if the keyboard got significantly worse with this new generation ... count me out. Won't know until I try it though.
@bji, you're complaining about the keyboards that people like in the Retina MBPs, not the new, 1st gen butterfly keys that original 12" MacBook and the 2nd gen in the new MBPs, yet to be rereleased.
Developer here, the butterfly keys are a deal breaker for me. I haven't gotten to try the 2nd gen butterfly keys, but if they're not good, then the rMBP is a no deal for me. I've been waiting for this machine and it's disappointing to see Apple's choices.
@Space Jam, you start off with an absolute statement that it's a dealbreaker for you because of the butterfly keys. Then your next sentence uses a qualifier 'if' to suggest that you'll wait to see if they're good or bad, and even note that you're aware that these are a 2nd gen of the butterfly keys foudn in the MacBook.
One thing Apple has been excellent at in the past is making their pro-level keyboards and trackpads work great, so I'm hopefuly. That said, I did test out the original 12" MacBook and after 2 weeks of using it as my primary device never got accustom to the keybaord, so I'm also weary. It's a smaller keyboard, so that could be it, but either way I'm overdue for a MacBook Pro update and love the other features so I'm going to get used it to no matter what.
My biggest concerns right now are: 1a) Will the two 12V outlets and one USB port in my automobile work for charing it on the road. 1b) If it will charge, how long will it take 1c) Can I have more than one plugged in for faster charging? 2) I also use Windows via Boot Camp. What kind of support for the Touch Bar can I expect?
>One thing Apple has been excellent at in the past is making their pro-level keyboards and trackpads work great That's why i'm typing this from a Macbook Pro. Trackpads not so much, i've played around with the retina (especially 2015 retina), and they've gone downhill in their search of thinness.
I've also played with the rMB and its butterfly switches are a complete deal breaker for me on a machine. The 2nd generation would have to be massively different to not be. Even the 2015 rMBP has fallen down the tiers for me quite a bit for its sacrificing key travel that make it a very unpleasant device to use. I don't see how the 2nd gen butterfly switches could be better than what they're replacing, but i'll give them a shot. For now though, i've got to start looking at other options for my next laptop.
1a) Probably, yeah 1b) Slow 1c) Hmmmmmmmmm I imagine it's doable, though pretty risky. 2) i'd expect it to offer the standard FN keys and escape, nothing more.
"2) i'd expect it to offer the standard FN keys and escape, nothing more."
That's what I'm expecting but I'm curious how this will work. Will Windows see this as a second display, or has Apple isolated this bar in a way that Windows will only register the basic signal of a typical key being pressed.
My understanding is that "problem" with MB keyboard is not new butterfly design, but shallow travel. Which is necessity because of slim laptop profile. I'm not sure how much do keys travel, but have noticed that new slim Asus Zenbook 3 has mere 0.8mm key travel... I'm guessing MB is somewhere there, too.
ArsTechnica had some hands on time with new MBP and, according to them, key travel on new MBP is noticeably improved over MB. Keycaps wobble is also pretty much non-existent. However, travel is not as good as with previous MBP models... eventually, this will be a bit of mixed bag, from user to user.
But base 13" Macbook Pro is quite underspecced (and lacking ports). I need a powerful machine able to run couple VMs and compile the code. Oh well. My early-2015 model should serve me OK for a while.
If you need "a powerful machine able to run couple VMs and compile the code" then why would you consider the replacement to the 13" MacBook Air as a choice?
Yes it does, Bill. It has no Touch bar, no Touch ID, no Apple Pay (so no T1 chip), and only 2 USB-C ports. It's all listed above. It's why this can fit a 10% larger battery.
I may be a bit biased against, but I see no reason for even a current Mac user to switch to this device, it requires a new, less robust and failsafe charger, still needs a dongle to do anything (can't wait to see the squids roaming around my school in the next two years), and TBH is completely uninspiring, with only efficiency coming into play with newer internals.
1) What's not robust about being able to use USB anywhere for charging? You can charge whislt driving now.
2) Why do I need a dongle when I have USB-A-to-USB-C cables from Monoprice. I even have a USB-C-to-SATA cable that doesn't need an external power supply for work, where I often have to reimage a 2.5" drive on the go.
3) What's uninspiring about Touch Bar, Touch ID, Apple Pay, the much better display, an overdue move to USB-C, and all other advancements. I'm just waiting for the rest of the PC vendors to catch up—just like they did when Apple first moved to USB.
1) Yes, just like at some point I had to let go of my printer's parallel cable and start using USB and had to let go to VGA and start using DVI and then mDP.
2) Have you heard of Monoprice? I just spent a couple grand on a computer, a couple dollars more for an abundance of universal cables isn't an issue.
I don't want to carry cables around. Especially when there is almost no justification for reducing the variety of connectors on the laptop aside from aesthetics or a slavish devotion to regularity (a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, in case you didn't know).
Then this Mac is a brilliant move in that direction. I don't want to carry cables, hence my clear comments stating that I will have power cables in various places so I don't have to carry them around.
The shocker for iPhone users is needing to buy a USB C to Lighting cable to connect together your Apple devices.
IMO Apple should include a USB C to USB A adaptor in the box.
What is good is that all four of the ports can be used interchangeably. However I'm going to miss the HDMI output which is great for workplaces where the meeting rooms have HDMI cables. I guess that's one more adaptor...
@willis93, you mean the crappy adaptive keys they scrapped because it sucked? You're claiming this is what Apple did? Where is Lenovo's Touch ID and Apple Pay? Oh yeah, laptops have used biometrics in the past, so that much they were exaclty the same as Apple's Touch ID¡
I'm hoping one day you and people like you can stop taking some conflating some generalize concept to mean that the failed, half-assed attempts are the best that will ever be possible. For example, Touch ID compared to biometrics that existed on laptops before.
@nerd1 - Which laptop has had a built in secure enclave and an actual finger print system that works? Which laptop has had something that's actually suitable for security and e-commerce? Seriously, think before you comment.
I'm kinda glad they're doubling down on Type C even tho I've got zero interest in Macs, selfishly it means quicker adoption/transition of the superior port and more accessories available for my phone sooner... There's a dearth of choice in Type C battery packs right now.
I'd been thinking the same thing. Would never had dared type it out though. USB C (particularly with TB3) is such a good universal port I want it on everything.
Shame they went with Lightning port on the iPhones, because that does cock it all up.
It doesn't even make that much sense in the long run to keep Lighting around, outside of whatever nominal fees they make on licensing... People are largely going wireless anyway so it's not like this is a big point of leverage for Beats or something. You'd think they'd even save a bundle by unifying chargers, cables, and and all sorts of components related to the ports themselves.
Apple caught a lot of flack for ditching the unwieldy 30-pin port for Lightning in 2012. They promised back then that it would be their iOS port for a "long time." If they switched to USB-C you can bet there would be 1000-message threads about how "greedy Apple is making us buy all new accessories." They may do so eventually, but perhaps not, since Lightning is smaller than USB-C.
I wonder why the 2 higher 13" models have a smaller battery than the base. Additionally the CPU, GPU, 4xTB3, and touchbar should take more power, presumably that plus a smaller battery would result in a shorter runtime.
There's extra HW in the devices with the Touch Bar. No, not 'just' the 2nd display, but also Touch ID and Apple Pay controller. There's also 2x2 USB-C ports compared to the 1x2 USB-C ports for the entry-level 13" MacBook Pro sans the Touch Bar.
On top of that, even amongst components that appear to be exactly the same, there are both performance and power efficiency differences that can occur. While I do expect it to fair better, I'ld be surpirsed if the duration matches the additional increase in battery capacity (i.e.: about 10% longer).
So, I am in the photography and videography industry. We only shoot 4k, some 8k video and 36-100mp SLR's and Medium format still cameras.
20 years ago all it was; was "APPLE". Let me explain something here. Lets tear down the most expensive one. The 15 inch loaded model for $2399. It is using a mid grade, not high end Intel mobile CPU. Second, the graphics card is weak compared to what is available on the market. I my line of work we make a basic line in the sand...... A fancy super thin tablet that all we can do is email people on because LR, PS, Capture One, 3D Studio, Maya, will all take hours to get anything done on....... That is your premium Macbook Pro for $2399. It's for your weekend videographer or photographer and then 6 months after they make that "expensive" purchase all we hear about is...... Why is my LR catalog taking an hour to load 5 photos..... (We have to laugh at these people)...... With Apple, you never get what you pay for.
I can take that same $2399 and go to Origin PC, Sager, Clevo, Eurocom and get at least double or triple the performance for the same price. What takes hours do to can be done in tens of minutes. They don't use crippled i5's or i7's with the "U" after them.
To re-enforce that crap, I have never heard of (In a premium laptop) about "under clocking" Is that Apples new strategy? We are charging you the price for a high end product, but then we are screwing you by "under clocking" it to make the thermals work(That is true).......
If you under clock something, it will produce less heat, and you will get better battery life..... But then the point of buying such an expensive laptop is mute.......
Under clocking also will increase your workflow time, but I guess if you want a $2399 tablet with a keyboard to read emails and surf un-appropriate websites, I guess it is your money? LOL
Chill out and get your facts straight. The entry 15" MBP uses a quad-core CPU, the i7-6700HQ to be exact (probably because it doesn't need the better Iris graphics). It can go up to the i7-6920HQ. These are the chips you will find in all the other 15" laptops from those manufacturers.
Because this isn't 2002 when I use to have a full tower ATX pc and laser printer hard wired in the back of my crew cab for a mobile office.
I want the power for a mobile 4k/8k and 100mp still editing station. It's a pain in the ~~~ to carry a tower, monitor and printer in your car/truck, etc....
I guess if I really wanted to though....... Mac Pro desktop $6,000+..... Home built desktop for $6,000..... 128gb ram, dual hex core xeons, a couple of SSD's in raid 0 for the OS and the intensive software, dual 12gb video cards....... etc..... What does the Mac Pro Desktop really have to offer other than breaking the bank account for nothing?
12 pounds is the loaded 17 inch Clevo with a 4k screen and 4 storage bays with a high end CPU and dual graphics cards.... Something no Mac Laptop is capable of anymore. You have to carry around the Mac Pro Desktop for that type of power.
I am chilled out. Infact The first 5 years I used computers, I used "Macs" 90% of the time, this was when Mac's were innovative and not gimmicks. I actually have a collection of collectable macs in my office and a Next Cube.
If you earn money from your work, then $3000 on a laptop with a 3GB/s SSD and P3 gamut display is peanuts. A 1.86 GFLOPS GPU with good OpenCL support is great for on-the-go edits. Not running out of battery is worth its weight in gold. Not breaking your back with a 10lb+ 'laptop' is also worth a lot.
It's when people who are professionals start complaining about the cost of their primary tool that you suspect that they are actually at best semi-professionals with a hobby.
Then it's sure is a shame that no pro would go for the new MBP... Seeing as they removed all the ports, and replaced it with (too few) replacements that nobody uses.
Your comment is pretty ridiculous on many levels and it's clear that you simply don't like Apple or resent them for some reason. For starters, most people don't buy laptops for the very high end tasks that are best suited for workstations. These days, storage I/O is a far bigger bottleneck than CPU or GPU performance. Further, even these laptops are considerably faster than high end workstations from just a couple years ago. The point being, claiming these devices aren't suitable for any of the applications you mentioned is a demonstration of ignorance on your part. That's not to say that rendering on 3D applications couldn't benefit from more power... Rather, these laptops are very well suited for the category of product they represent.
I'm surprised that Apple removed keys. I don't like the idea of a Touch Bar at all. When things lock up and crash, you've just lost your row of physical keys.
Windows 10 crashes for me alot. Mostly on shutdown, it will hang for no reason. Also my mouse pointer disappears sometimes. Admittedly, this is primarily my VR PC that is running SteamVR alot and that thing does all kinds of wacky stuff that is probably part of the root cause.
Also, Windows 10 updates itself SO FREQUENTLY, forces reboots at inopportune times, and takes many minutes to boot up probably one out of every 4 reboots due to installing updates. Honestly, the whole forced, frequent, slow update procedure is so unbelievably consumer unfriendly that I fundamentally believe that Windows 10 is an essentially unusable product. I only use it because I have to on my VR PC. Worst Windows Ever, and that is really saying something.
Keep in mind using F5 and F9 a lot. I run a lot of alpha and beta gaming software. The mac might be more stable and less about gaming but hey... I can see it going wrong for me, particularly when loading up Windows or doing something more unstable.
The shortcut for quitting programs on Macs is Command-Q, has been for decades. The vast majority of keyboard shortcuts on Macs use the Command, Option, and Control keys.
2800€ (two thousend eight hundred) for a 15'' laptop. With 256GB of storage. And limited to 16GB of RAM. And they put a "Pro" on it. Sounds like a joke. But I can't laugh.
"All of them get the same new unibody design, the same wide color gamut (P3) display"
Since when is P3 "wide color gamut"? It has identical blue to green coverage as sRGB, and pretty much a red shifted aRGB in terms of width! Hell, some dell monitors have nearly twice the coverage!
I can take all these changes, but I can't take the increase in price for everything. The base 13" has less ports and doesn't even have the fancy new touch bar, but is $300 more than the previous model.
I feel Apple's obsession with slimness that Anandtech rightly pointed out, is getting out of hand. It seems they don't understand that a well designed hardware is not about how slim it gets. Practically all their hardware are losing functionalities/ connectivity as a result of this obsession. I think they can try to push this boundary, but it will eventually hit a tipping point that it becomes too hard to use and to justify buying an inconvenient hardware that relies heavily on buying a lot of other accessories to make up for the shortfall in this port and that.
There are slimmer and lighter laptops with better connectivity, more battery and horsepower. Apple just aims at deep pocketed people who wont care about productivity.
I know that's not true. More power sure, but not slimmer and lighter at the same time. I have had tons of laptops over the years and the MacBook Pros have been the best performing, with the best travel aesthetics (size and weight), and the best quality (fit and finish.) And I care deeply about productivity, I use my machines All day ... every day ... an integral part of my career.
@nerd1 Which of those laptops has the same 3GB/s storage performance? That's a factor that impacts more workflows than CPU or GPU and yet few people understand enough to even bring it up in their comparisons. There will always be a product that performs better at some subset. Yet, when you understand more of the full picture, your value proposition fades away.
LOL.. anyone can buy 960 pro SSD and put it in their laptop. And it's more for benchmark bragging too (I use 950 pro but it's hardly faster than my other system with xp941)
I'm looking at the specs for the HP Specter and I'm not seeing it. Slower Processor Options, No Iris PRO graphics, Limited RAM options, Lower-Res Screen. Um..... Sorry. It's not true.
Maybe the UK machines have different specs, but comparing ~£1,500 models, here we're looking at i5 vs i7, 2.0 GHz vs 2.5 GHz CPU and 256 GB vs 512 GB storage, Pro vs Spectre. Graphics definitely better on the Pro but these aren't really games machines.
I think they hit that tipping point this generation. The sacrifices they have made to get slimmer have reduced the functionality of the laptop to a degree that makes it uninteresting, at least for me. I will just have to chug along in my 2012 rMBP for another 4 years ...
LMAO all these apple fans waited for 3 years for apple to update their macbook pro line, and what does apple do??!@?!?! They use a 1 year old CPU when the competition is using 7th gen Kaby Lake.
I feel for you apple fans.. Thats almost as bad as Microsoft using Keplar in their new Surface Studio computer instead of Pascal.
Apple is losing touch with it's base... There is only so much crap your fans will endure. The removal of the "Escape" key, and using 1 year old CPU's, and raising prices +$200 across the board while using old cpu tech, is a sure way to make your customers feel that their new notebook is already antiquated. Also, they removed the SD Card reader, while not a big deal for most, still adds up. At some point in time, you have to ask yourself, is all that stuff they removed worth a 3mm thinner laptop? or are you just ok with buying and carrying around a multitude of dongles to replace all that functionality they took out.
Kaby Lake added hardware H.265 MAIN encoder and thats a big deal for creatives that use these laptops for video editing. but apple staying with skylake ensures they get slightly cheaper cpu prices at the expense of their loyal customers.
PS: oh they used AMD instead of Nvidia, but i won't count that. Nvidia's Pascal Arch offers much better perf per watt than Polaris.
LMAO all you will but Quad Core i7 Kaby lake chips havent even started shipping yet! The comments section used to be good on Anandtech but now it is just a vent out for butt hurt dell/hp/xyz fans who are possibly looking for the best driver to update after a recent update.
Intel isn't shipping the Kaby Lake 28W or 45W chips to anyone yet. It isn't about a place in line. And after last year's Skylake GPU driver debacle I'm guessing Apple is probably happy it waited to release Skylake Macs. The original Surface Book had massive crashing issues for the first few months.
I think the point is, Apple is now releasing their "new" devices with CPU's that have been released over a year ago. Not long ago, it seemed that Intel's latest and greatest would premier with the latest Macs.
In the real world scenarios, there's not going to be a lot more performance from Kaby Lake than Sky Lake (except HEVC playback battery life). The issue that I think people have, Apple and their fans used to boast about having the latest and greatest Intel CPUs as a huge selling point, but now that that is no longer the case, everyone wants to to say that "it doesn't matter", when clearly is did use to matter.
It doesn't really matter anymore... Intel can go to a Tick-Tock-Tack-Tuck-Teck cycle all they want. Manufacturers and consumers have decided to stop playing Intel's yearly upgrade game and engineer and purchase new produces when it makes sense for them....NOT FOR INTEL.
Except they aren't. The other manufacturers are releasing Kaby Lake laptops, Apple isn't. So while your emperor wearing no clothes says the removal of SD is good, a shrinking battery is good, using old tech is good, it doesn't make it so.
The speed differences from generation to generation aren't that big anymore. Plus the only time Apple got a "special" chip from Intel was with the original MacBook Air. That one overheated a lot (and wasn't so special). Apple actually shipped a Core 2 Duo-equipped 13" MacBook Pro when the rest of the industry switched to the Nehalem Core i5/i7 because Nehalem's integrated graphics were awful. And for that matter, the Surface Studio everyone is drooling over has a Skylake chip, as does the new Surface Book.
Hey, Apple has waited this long without a update, whats a couple of more months to ensure your shipping something with the latest and greatest?
I'll tell you why, to meet the holiday season. again, a decision the benefits apple and not the consumer. I mean, this choice goes against their entire design philosophy. on the iphone, they love to tout how they have the latest and greatest CPU's, but on notebooks, it doesnt matter.
Because it would be more than a couple of months with testing and certification. Plus Intel has had yield issues and prioritizes the higher volume 15W processors even if the higher wattage chips are technically shipping.
My guess is Apple has looked at Intel's roadmap and concluded Kaby Lake isn't worth the wait. It should bring a bit more boost to the 12" MacBook so they'll probably do another silent upgrade in April like they did this year, but it's entirely possible that for the MacBook Pro they may skip Kaby Lake and jump right to Cannonlake/Coffee Lake in an early 2018 release.
Uh, which is it? You said both of these statements
"Intel isn't shipping the Kaby Lake 28W or 45W chips to anyone yet." "Plus Intel has had yield issues and prioritizes the higher volume 15W processors even if the higher wattage chips are technically shipping."
So are they shipping higher wattage chips or are they not?
How dare they be limited to using components that are actually shipping sometime this year?
>Since the Haswell generation in 2013, Intel has sold two different kinds of 15W and 45W laptop chips: versions with higher base CPU clock speeds and weaker integrated GPUs and versions with stronger integrated GPUs but lower base clock speeds. Apple has, to date, exclusively used the versions with superior GPUs.
>The problem for Apple is that, for the last few years, Intel has rolled out its good GPUs many months after shipping chips with weaker GPUs. Intel has told us not to expect Iris GPUs or any kind of quad-core Kaby Lake processors until after CES in January. So for pretty much every system that Apple is most likely to refresh on Thursday, Kaby Lake chips just aren’t ready.
>This is disappointing, but it’s also not the end of the world. In most respects, Kaby Lake is an extremely minor update to Skylake that focuses mostly on small clock speed increases and better support for decoding and encoding 10-bit 4K video. Users who do lots of work with 4K video should go for a Mac with a dedicated GPU, since both AMD and Nvidia’s newest chips should offer the same or superior support for 4K.
Where are the 35W mobile Pascal GPUs that give over 50 GFLOPS/W?
Yes, they will both come next year. And at that time, Apple will not use them immediately (and Apple and Nvidia don't have the best relationship anyway). And we don't know if 35W GP107s will be any better than 35W Polaris 11s.
Wow. I may not be the target market for these (at least right away), or the typical commenter, but I think Apple is taking an unjustified beating here for some things. Last time I looked, Intel had not yet made available Kaby Lake in anything above 15W, or with eDRAM. I can't believe they would build machines that are limited by existing components!
I'm sure those same people would feel that Microsoft's brand new $3000 Surface Studio PC with a Skylake i5, a spinning rust hard drive, and an ancient NVIDIA GeForce GTX 965M GPU takes price gouging for under-powered hardware to a new extreme.
Hell, it doesn't even have a single Thunderbolt port.
They wouldn't want to be hypocrites, I feel very sure. :oP
They do, go read the comments there. Everyone has said the same thing, beautiful monitor, ridiculous price for the ancient components. If you want to use anecdotal evidence at least be aware of the anecdotal evidence.
Apparently, there is a newer version of LPDDR3 called LPDDR3E that runs at the higher speed.
>JEDEC has unveiled a new, three-step plan. In the first step, the industry has devised LPDDR3E, an extension to LPDDR3 that has a data rate of 17-GB/s in a dual-channel mode at 1.2 volts.
>Following LPDDR3E, the industry will follow two simultaneous avenues. It will take another evolutionary and safe path with 2D-based LPDDR4. It also will pursue the more revolutionary path with 3D-based Wide I/O-2. “Both candidates will have their own positions in the mobile industry,” Choi said.
Yeah, I saw that too and wondered. I mean, it's the speed that matters in the end, so 2133MHz will suffice, especially on the systems with discrete GPUs with their own memory, but it does feel a bit odd.
But then again, Skylake's memory controller supports LPDDR3 and DDR4 (not LPDDR4).
To not use a Geforce graphics card for the high end laptop config is a punch in the face to all the patient Apple fans. This is a difference you'd actually notice as the perf/watt advantage of Nvidia over AMD right now is huge. In the desktop market the noticeable differences are debatable, but in mobile come on, this is ridonkulous.
i dont think AMD's 14nm for big chips is mature. they have so far shipped one GPU on the process, and the gpu die is super small. they are gonna have trouble on these bigger gpu's
I'm kinda surprised they elected to nix any form of standard/existing video out port yet kept the 3.5mm analog audio out they just killed on the iPhone.
I guess it'd be confusing to have a Lighting port on a laptop merely to promote Lighting connected headphones, but it creates a weird dichotomy.
Guess they're betting everyone is taking audio wireless anyway, yet had the space to spare to keep 3.5mm around? Hmm
So $1500 for the base version with a skylake i5 CPU ? Maybe that's appealing to Apple fans, but for ~$1200 you could get an HP or Asus notebook, with Kaby Lake i7 CPUs, both of which are thinner and lighter in spite of having a rotatable screen.
What's nuts is that a fully maxed out 13" MacBook Pro doesn't meet the minimum specs of Civilization VI (dual core, no Iris Pro). All that for more money. Really disappointing.
"Though the event was very brief on how Apple was able to shave off so much volume compared to the last generation" -- battery capacity us reduced by 25%. That's the entire volume reduction and more, right there.
"the basic 13” model forgoes the Touch Bar in favor of a traditional row of function keys, presumably for cost reasons" -- no, the touch bar hardware will be be barely ten dollars. It's too drive buyers towards the higher-margin models.
Although it's great to see Thunderbolt 3 implemented properly, a P3 gamut display (though I'm waiting for rec2020 myself) and damned good SSDs, the prices on these devices are daft, just like with iPhones.
One side note -- expect to see the Macbook Air quietly vanish at some point soon, now it's redundant. But it was a great machine in its time.
Not Crystalwell CPUs for the 15" models? That's unfortunate. Intel do offer both 6th gen i5s and i7s with Iris Pro graphics. There's no $1999 option like there used to be for the 15" model either.
I hope Apple comes to their senses and offers a 15" model with i5-6350HQ and no dGPU for $1999 in time for the Holidays.
I have zero problems with the weight of the 2012 rMBP. It would be nice for the weight to be reduced, of course, but not at the cost of all of the lost functionality in the new generation. In fact I'd rather have the same weight and .5 lb more battery getting back to the same 4.5 lbs.
The previeous rMBPs are great, lightweight laptops for sure, but what's all the functionality that's been lost with the new MBPS? - and I'm not trying to get into an argument here - maybe I just missed something, and I wonder what that might've been. It's sucks not having MagSafe, dedicated HDMI out, and a card reader, but I see those as minor things. Shorter key travel might bother some, but that's a really a matter of preference. The big thing could be battery size, but Apple actually claims higher battery life for the new MBPs - 10 hrs vs. 9 hrs. It's possible the new display and memory tech make up for the the lesser battery capacity. What do you think?
The things you mentioned are the things I am talking about when I say lost functionality. Being able to plug my SD card in directly, or plug one of the numerous USB devices I have in directly, or not worry about tripping over my power cable because of magsafe. And if the key travel is less and has a compromised feel because of it, that's probably the most significant loss of all.
If they put another .5 lb of battery in there, we'd be talking about much more than a one hour increase in battery left, and I'd find that a significant benefit, much more significant than a .5 lb lower weight.
I haven't the screen yet, if it's much better than the previous generation, then great. I would have much preferred more battery life and connector convenience over a 0.5 lb weight loss and some decreased thickness. The weight and thickness of the laptop were already completely acceptable to me.
P.S. Or perhaps you meant that you'd rather have even more battery life along with the old conveniences, rather than a slightly lighter laptop. That makes sense, yes, but Apple has never prioritized battery life beyond a certain point in any device. I think it's great that we finally have a full-fledged laptop in what used to be ultrabook territory in terms of weight - that type of chassis used to be able to remove 15W of heat; now it's capable of removing 80W.
Far from the first time Apple has dropped every legacy port. Look at the 1998 iMac. Or the 2015 MacBook. TB3 is at least backward compatible with plenty of third-party adapters and cables to choose from.
This can't be the reason because the Iris Pro part is cheaper than the one being shipped right now - $378 for the i7-6700HQ vs. $306 for the i5-6350HQ. Even if it has to be an i7 the 6770HQ costs $56 more than the 6700HQ, and it seems unlikely that the Radeon Pro 950 is less than that.
Maybe Apple needs to get some volume going on the new MacBook Pros before it's willing to offer a base version w/o a dGPU.
Mac owner and Apple enthusiast here, and very disappointed with the new MBP.
Sure the new Touch Bar is cool and useful, and there are a few other bright spots, but overall very disappointing:
* Jacked up the prices beyond what's reasonable.
* Launched a Pro machine with T W O ports for everything.
* Took out all the ports that professionals use, replaced them with a port nobody uses. SERIOUSLY APPLE? You don't think professionals use USB/DP/SD/etc.?!?
* Useless weight/thickness gains. It's 15% thinner? Who cares? You know what nobody ever says? "My 2015 MBP is way too heavy/thick!" A bigger battery would be much more useful.
This is Tim Cooks Apple: Overpriced and out of touch...
I think that Cook feels desperately low on ideas that can produce new popular products and so has to resort to just pushing the same old concepts (thinner, lighter, simplified connector scheme) to higher levels, out of desperation to look like he's actually doing something.
Where they jack up the prices any chance they get, and launch "Pro" machines with only two ports and none of the connections a pro might expect.
What was that? You'd like to connect your iPhone to the MacBook Pro you just bought?
No Problemo! You just have to spend 200$ on a 2 pound USB-C dock, which you will need to carry around everywhere you go! But hey, look on the bright side! Your MacBook is 2mm thinner and 200 grands lighter!
You really think Steve Jobs would disapprove of Apple dropping legacy ports from a new Mac? Seriously? The guy who introduced the iMac in 1998 with zero support for every port that Apple had used up until that point, back when there were literally only a handful of USB devices out there?
Jobs might disapprove of how cluttered the MacBook lineup has gotten (7 models including the carryover 2015 models), but he'd likely applaud Apple for pushing the rest of the industry to go all in with TB-3.
I love my 2012 rMBP, best laptop I have ever owned, hands down. First Mac, too, and I was excited to get something even better as an upgrade this generation.
However, I am deeply disappointed in this new design, which reduces functionality that I actually care about, all for things that have no benefit to me.
I really do not want to go back to the bad old days of crummy PC laptops running Linux where half of the functionality does not work right (oh the number of times my Linux laptop froze trying to go to sleep or come out of sleep; the number of hours I have wasted on upgrades that broke drivers ....), so I guess I'll just use my rMBP another four years.
Unless they're going to make the MacBook cheaper if they are to drop the MacBook Air from the lineup completely, I LIKED having a lower cost/entry option into the Mac world.
The 15" comes with i7's by default, so you save a +$300 upgrade on the 13" the 15" also comes with 16GB ram by default, so you save a +$200 upgrade there.
by the time you spec out a 13" rMBP with OLED bar, to a 15" rMBP with OLED bar, you might as well get the 15". if money is no object and you need the portability, then your probably looking at a Macbook, and not a 13" rMBP with OLED bar.
According to the JEDEC standard LPDDR3 can max out at only 1866 Mhz and not 2133 Mhz. How is that possible? I don't think Apple would overclock their RAM.
I had samsung chips that did 2133mhz 10-10-10-24-12-128-7-6-7-24-39 at 1.5v so loosen that up and bin it and you get 2133mhz. They won't care what JEDEC says when they control the stack like they do, it will matter about the chips.
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RaichuPls - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
What looks interesting is that the 13inch Touch has a 28w CPU + a smaller battery when compared to the non-touch version. Wonder how battery life is going to be affected by that.Also damn they jacked up the prices...
Morawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
the pro's always used a 28w cpu, i'm not sure why anandtech thinks otherwise. IIRC the 15w CPU's were only used in the Macbook AirMorawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
the 13" pro mind you, or course the 15" got a 45W CPU.. although my current rMBP is using a 45w CPU and a 100W GPU. They cut the GPU TDP quite a bit from when they used Nvidia.I really wish they would start using Nvidia again and quit signing these contracts with AMD that tie their hands for 3-5 years. after all, nobody beats Nvidia at Perf per watt in mobile GPU's
arayoflight - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
A bigger advantage of Nvidia GPUs will be CUDA. Most applications or libraries don't support OpenCL.Stuka87 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
CUDA is almost unheard of in the Mac world. OSX itself uses OpenCL, as do all of Apples Pro apps. The fact that nVidia doesnt support the latest OpenCL is one of the reasons they have not been used for a few years now.Polacott - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Apple uses OpenCL as is an open standard, wisely they won't tie to a proprietary api that is supported and owned by only by one manufacturer. I really wonder how CUDA reach so far in time.ImSpartacus - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Nvidia has a ton of marketshare and pretty tremendous mindshare.It's one of the reasons that I'm still nervous about getting a vrr monitor because I'm not convinced that freesync will be the "winner" just because it's in an official standard. Nvidia has shown that they can play by their own rules and still "win".
Azix - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Apple favors openCL and CUDA should be able to run on AMD GPUs soon enough.jameskatt - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
Apple prefers developers use Metal - it's own proprietary graphics standard. Metal is much faster than OpenCL. And Metal runs in iOS, MacOS, and TVOS. OpenCL is the backup.Polacott - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
CUDA is a proprietary api owned by Nvidia on the other hand OpenCL is an open standard that in the begining was created by Apple, IBM, AMD, Intel and Nvidia.Adobe for instance uses OpenCL to accelerate processing operations. So, OpenCL is future proof.
"Most applications or libraries don't support OpenCL" do you have any data to support such a thing?
Think a bit instead of just incorporating pure NVidia corporate bs.
chasm22 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Anybody who calls out "pure NVidia(sic) corporate bs" while championing OpenCL as implemented by Apple is either being sarcastic or doesn't read much.A few seconds with Google and a few minutes/hours/days of reading will clarify the situation.
Your argument of open vs. proprietary only applies if there is a genuine effort to embrace and improve the quality of the choice that you make.
Many people, if not most, think that Apple hasn't given much support to the OpenCL driver used in Macs. At least for couple of years.
Here's one of many complaints. Please read the comment at the end of the article. It's dated October of this year which presumably shows that the problem continues. I don't believe the author has any axe to grind with Apple. He's purely motivated by his frustration with trying to make an app work when the OS doesn't work like it should. http://www.fractalarchitect.net/blog/2015/10/apple...
nerd1 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
99.9% of machine learning/ deep learning people uses nvidia. AMD is a big joke...fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
This will change in the next year, without question.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
AMD probably beats Nvidia in z-height though, which is Apple's no. 1 design priority.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Sad and probably true.boozed - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
"Z-height"? Can we just call it thickness?psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
The Polaris 11 GPUs in the new MacBook Pros achieve over 50 GFLOPS/W for the Radeon Pro 460. Nvidia does not offer 35W Pascal GPUs. GP107 is a couple of months away from a mobile solution.In short - it "beats Nvidia at Perf per watt in mobile GPU's [sic]".
Eidigean - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
But I don't want a 35w part. I want a 75w NVIDIA GTX 1060, 100w 1070, or 150w 1080. I need to drive that 5K monitor; tiny AMD parts are not going to cut it.michael2k - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
What are you talking about? The 15" MBP can drive two 5K or 4 4K monitors.Lavkesh - Wednesday, November 2, 2016 - link
He only wants to complain and whine.tipoo - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
If you want a 75W part, even the prior Macbook Pro was out of the question. The most they've used is 50W GPUs iirc.Morawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
35w is not much, in fact thats a big reduction from what apple has typically put in the large 15" MBP's. The last time apple used Nvidia was 2012, and they used a 650m, which had a TDP of 45w. They stole 10w of TDP from the MBP line somewhere down the development process.that chassis is good up to 100w, and the cpu is only 45w
RaichuPls - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Yeah, but it's the 13" Touch compared to 13" non-Touch. The 6360u is a 15w TDP part, the 6267u on the other hand is a 28w TDP part. Not sure how they managed same battery life with a smaller capacity battery.extide - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
They don't think otherwise -- you must be misunderstanding the article.beta212 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
The price for the basic model is ridiculous. $1200 to upgrade to a 2TB ssd? $100 to upgrade to AMD 460 from a 450? That's just absurd.Seriously waiting for the next generation Dell XPS 15 now.
zanon - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
>$1200 to upgrade to a 2TB ssd?>That's just absurd
>http://www.anandtech.com/show/10754/samsung-960-pr...
>Samsung 960 Pro 2TB
>MSRP: $1299
>That's just abusrd
Sure thing pal. Apple absolutely charges silly prices for upgrades sometimes, they were long particularly infamous when it came to memory. But not always.
JJWu - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
It should not be M.2 SSD in the new MacBook Pro. From the product spec Apple released on the web site, new MacBook Pro uses "PCIe-based onboard SSD". Will that be like MacBook, "Apple proprietary NVMe SSD controller + NAND Flash"?fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
The drive is $1300, he is referring to the UPGRADE costing $1200. When you are upgrading you aren't starting with nothing, so Apple is still making a mint on that upgrade. It's not nearly as bad as some of the costs they have charged in the past, but it's still giving them hefty margins.Daniel Egger - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
> $1200 to upgrade to a 2TB ssd?Please get a clue before posting. You can do this by looking up the price for the only M.2 2TB on the market to get an idea of what the actual price of that is.
So contrary to your outrage I'd say this is actually the first time for Apple that space upgrade is somewhat reasonably priced...
Keao - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It still is a lot if you do the math:You're upgrading from a 512 GB which has on its own a retail price of about $329.99 which is embedded in the price of the machine and let's say they charge you $300 for it overall.
To update to a 2TB drive which has a retail price of about $1299.99 you have to add on top of those $300 another $1200. That makes you $1500 for a drive that most likely cost them $900 or less through negotiations and volume discounts... I agree it's not outrageous but seeing the total cost of the machine I'd say it's indecent at best.
Daniel Egger - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It certainly is a lot of money but SSDs in this size are expensive, then it's a custom build incurring extra cost and of course there also has to be a markup. You could try to compare it with other vendors, except that no one else even offers 2 TB at this time, but even if you look at the Dell XPS 15 with it's slower SSD implementation: going from 512GB to 1TB costs $400 so Apple charges exactly 3 times that and prices at the high end absolutely never scale linearly...iwod - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I actually think the price is pretty reasonable for the first time ever on SSD. One being Apple pick some of the best quality NAND. If you account this in the price of the calculation it makes a little more sense. Of coz it is by no means cheap. Just comparatively speaking reasonable.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Apple didn't pick the NAND they picked the vendor who picked the NAND. It was Samsung who chose the NAND for their SSDsmastercheif91 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm curious to find out if the 15" will support Freesync with external displays. There is conflicting information out there, but according to the Thunderbolt website, Thunderbolt 3 does support DisplayPort 1.2ahttp://www.displayport.org/faq/
The software aspect is going to be interesting as well. As far as I know, macOS doesn't support variable refresh rate out of the box? In fact, I've been using SwitchResX for years to even be able to use custom refresh rates outside of 30hz+ PAL+60hz. And then there's the Bootcamp aspect. Many macOS users switch over to Windows for their gaming needs because games just tend to run better in a myriad of ways. In my experience, stock AMD/NVidia drivers have worked fine in bootcamp. Let's hope there's not anything getting in the way of Freesync compatibility. I'll have my fingers crossed.
mastercheif91 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Whoops, linked the wrong site. Only place I can find 1.2a support on Thunderbolt 3 is a Technology Brief press release PDF on the thunderbolt site.https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/fi...
If you're not in the business of clicking on random PDF's in the comment sections on tech blogs, googling "thunderbolt 3 displayport 1.2a" should bring it up as the third result.
Ryan Smith - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Upon further research, the answer appears to be no. Apple is using both GPUs, and the Intel doesn't support full FreeSync-style variable refresh.Space Jam - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Wait, so does the AMD GPU / 15" rMBP display support FreeSync-style variable refresh? In OS X or Windows?Kevin G - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
OS X apparently does support variable refresh. nVidia quietly added G-sync support to their web drivers recently. Not sure if the nVidia drivers bundled with Sierra support G-sync.iwod - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
So how is Apple achieving it? Their own solution?Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Yes.Since it can't be full variable refresh, most likely they have implemented 60Hz/30Hz switching, similar to what already happens on iOS devices.
sorten - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
$1500 for a 13" laptop with 8GB of RAM is difficult to justify. I really wanted to pick up a new one for some dev work, but now I may look at picking up a used previous gen MBP.RussianSensation - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
This is for Apple fanboys straight up.Look at this, right now on launch date of these new 13.3" MacBook Pros, HP Spectre 13.3 2-in-1 laptop costs $986 on SlickDeals:
Specs
Intel Core i7-7500U Kaby Lake Dual-Core Processor ((2.7 GHz, up to 3.5 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores)
8GB Memory
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics 620
13.3" 1920 x 1080 FHD Touchscreen LED IPS Display
WiFi + Bluetooth
Backlit Keyboard
Win 10 Home
$986
Doubling the RAM from 8GB to 16GB costs $40 with HP.
Doubling the 256GB PCIe SSD from 256GB to 512GB costs $100.
This $140 upgrade cost has another 15% off discount, bringing the price of the upgraded Spectre to $1105 USD.
Now I am going to take the 13.3" MacBook Pro for $1799, upgrade the CPU to the 3.5Ghz dual-core i5 (+$100), upgrade 8GB of memory to 16GB (+$200), and I still end up with a slower, 6th generation CPU, and 1/2 the PCIe SSD of the HP, and the total price of the MacBook Pro 13.3" rises to $2099!!
$1105 HP Spectre still has superior specs to the $2099 MacBook Pro. But it gets even worse:
The Spectre is 0.54" thin vs. 0.59" for the Mac, and it's 2.85 lbs in weight vs. 3.02 lbs for the Mac. The Spectre also has a bigger 57.8 Wh Lithium-ion polymer Battery vs. 49.2 Wh for the MacPro.
It's basically a $1000 savings by going with a superior Windows 10 laptop that can be used to buy a 50-60" 4K LCD to hook it up to OR build a separate i7-7700K + 16GB DDR4 3200 desktop! Amazing.
jsntech - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
You, sir, just made me have a very big sad.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
You're comparing parts of some components and then ignoring other components all together.xype - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Best kind of comparisons. Easier to pick a winner that way.Morawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
like the $200 touch bar and $800 aluminum enclosure? Thats about itsolipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
@Morawka, how does the Touch Bar cost $200?at80eighty - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
because it's made with Courage™maximumGPU - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
haha niceMorawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
thats the price difference between the 13" with OLED and without OLEDMorawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
they have the same specs otherwisesolipsism - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
OK, but that doesn't explain why you think the Touch Bar costs $200.Morawka - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
omg.Regular 2016 13" Macbook Pro with Skylake: $1499
Same Exact 13" Macbook Pro with skylake but with OLED Touch bar included: $1799
Those machines are identical except for the touch bar. Price difference is $300, so $200 or $300 for the touch bar is for all intents and purposes, what apple is charging for it.
Morawka - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
my bad, the regular has a lower end CPU but looking at Intel's tray prices, the price intel charges is only $50 more for the 28w part. so somewhere in that $300 price difference is two thunderbolt ports, and $50 cpu upgrade, and a OLED bar.so the price of the touch bar is still estimated at $200 after you consider all of that stuff.
solipsism - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
:sigh: @Morawka, there's a lot more than just a Touch Bar difference. There's the T1 chip, there's Touch ID, there's Apple Pay, there's all the R&D investments over years that went into these new features. Then you have 2x more USB-C ports.Then you can also add cost to the non-Touch Bar version of the new 13" MBP because it has a 10% larger battery.
Finally, there are innumerable unknowns in terms of both HW and profit margins that make it impossible to know how much 'just' the Touch Bar costs. For instance, does Apple use slower NAND for it's entry-level MacBook Pro that is replacing the old 13" MBA? Are these lower-end MBPs using a slightly less energy efficient chipset or display panel thereby negating that higher capacity battery because it's more cost effective/ Or, is Apple getting a lower profit margin on this MBA replacement in order to attract buyers at a certain price point, or are they increasing the profit margin in order to maintain a per-unit profit?
These questions are endless. There's simply too many variables in which we're not privy for you to make a claim that they are charging a specific price for the Touch Bar.
Dennis Travis - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
They should lower the price for the Missing Lighted Apple on the Lid! :D GrinMeteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Perhaps you could elaborate on what components the MPB has which are $1,000 superior to the Spectre?protomech - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Comparing MSRP against MSRP, the $1050 base x360 lines up pretty neatly against the $1500 MBP without the Touch Bar, as both have 15W TDP CPUs. The gap does widen further when upgrading both; HP's upgrades are much less expensive. It doesn't seem reasonable to compare a temporary sale price against MSRP, but feel free if that's your jam.So, here's what you get for the extra $450:
- stronger sustained performance (same chassis as the 28W TDP $1700 model)
- stronger graphics in the macbook (HD 540 w/ 64MB EDRAM vs HD 620)
- faster PCIE SSD
- higher density, wide-gamut, factory-calibrated display
- 3x3 wifi
- haptic feedback trackpad
- no HP bloatware
- OS X (forcing preference)
Of course, the HP has some features the mac does not have: touch screen, 360 degree hinge, etc. If those things are important then you're probably won't cross-shop the Mac.
protomech - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Edit to the above:"same chassis as the 28W TDP $1700 model"
The base non-touch model has fewer vents and only a single fan. Will need to wait for a review to see what the sustained performance looks like.
fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
There is no chance the mac has equal CPU performance to the Spectre as the Spectre has Kaby and the Mac has Skylake. They have already said there is no IPC increase but they have improved speed step and clocked higher within the same TDP. So no, you will never get Spectre performance out of the Mac when it comes to CPU-centric tasks.TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I will never buy an HP Laptop again ... I don't care what the price is ... it's just not worth it. I have had a couple MacBook Pro's now and they are reliable and dependable work-horses, that gave me very few problems. My time is money and I won't ever do the HP laptop thing ever again.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I once bought a light bulb and it blew. Never again. I always sit in darkness now.TesseractOrion - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Haha brilliant! :-)Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I think the moral of the story was "buy a better bulb", but w/eMeteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
:)nikon133 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Sure. Though, we don't really know what HP light bulb was Teamswitcher referring to. There's a huge difference between cheap consumer HPs and, say, Elitebook bulbs.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Exactly right. I am no HP fan and I hate their printers but my work laptop is a beast. It's light, fast, and very stable. It isn't a cheapy $300 deal, it's got the SSD etc. and I love it. Within the VW empire they make the Golf and they make the Gallardo. The two are not the same even though they are from the same company.damianrobertjones - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Are you comparing a £1000+ laptop to a £450 laptop?Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
You don't have to. HP Zbook 14 user here. Bloody thing crashes regularly - behaves as though it's overheating but the fans don't spin up. Yay.Never again.
WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
For real. Fuck HP. So. Many. Problems.cocochanel - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Me too. Back in 2012 I bought one of these HP Beats Edition laptops. The BIOS was acting up many times. After a while, the DVD drive wasn't working. The Synaptics touchpad was problematic at times too. I can't believe I paid 1200 bucks for that piece of garbage.Kevin G - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
The MacBook Pro would actually have a slight performance edge in CPU tasks thanks to the eDRAM provided by the Iris graphics. Speaking of graphics, the GPU in the MacBook Pro is decisively faster too. This is useful for driving the higher resolution screen the MacBook Pro offers.That HP machine certainly isn't a superior machine for half the price. Are this differences in specs worth $1000 for what you'd get on the MacBook Pro though? I'd actually argue no but they do cover some of that price gap.
iwod - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
One of the problem with CPU these days is that there ARE so many varieties, and it is hard to even judge the performance of Graphics comes with it.WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
You always get diminishing returns at higher costs.Price and performance do NOT scale linearly.
Pneumothorax - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Not this time around, Apple used the 'cheaper' 6700HQ without edram...deathBOB - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Not to say the HP isn't a good value, but it only has a 1080p display. Still a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'm just not quite sure that more than 1080 looks much better at 15" or less. Certainly it does on larger screens, but not smaller. Plus that display is a screen touch.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Trust me, it looks MUCH better. The Apple displays are insanely better than the 1080 garbage on the HP.deeps6x - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
This is a great example. Personally I'd be more interested in comparisons with the 15" version.For example, the MSI GS63VR. 4k screen, GTX1060 video card, lighter, cheaper, etc.
I keep wanting to switch to Mac, and Win10 is pushing me hard to do it, but the pricing differences in the hardware always seem to hold me back.
WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
What do you use it for? If you want a reliable workhorse of a laptop, and don't game, absolutely try out a mac.The prices are also this high becuase they always spike the prices the year there's a total redesign. Prices will come down next year.
(for example, the 13" MacBook air was $1799 when it first came out, and now the MacBook air runs for $999)
nikon133 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Depends on what is workhorse supposed to be doing. For someone who already has investment in Windows software (that can be migrated from old to new machine), getting Mac further increases expense with all the software required on top of hardware.RussianSensation - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
http://slickdeals.net/f/9214223-new-hp-spectre-x36...basroil - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
For dev work just get a dell or surface (and your preferred version of linux or windows), with the remaining $400 you can pick up an an old mac mini and use that for compile and validation. Macs have never been a good option for development, too expensive and too predictable (easier to find issues when you have variety!)sorten - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Yeah. I do all of my .NET/C# and JavaScript development on a SP4, but I want to tinker with iOS and OS X dev as well. I suppose the mini would cut it, but I'd rather have a laptop.WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
You can pick up an older MacBook from the apple refurbished store, if you dont want to pay the prices on this refresh.baka_toroi - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
According to ark.intel.com the 6700HQ's base frequency is 2.6 GHz. Is there a typo in your chart?spikebike - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Intel has recently decided to let vendors underclock chips to hit the custom power/cooling envelope. Sadly they don't require vendors to reveal the differences, so it's hard to what actual real world performance you'll get.Ryan Smith - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
That was indeed a typo. Thanks!mga318 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
So...goodbye sd card reader. Photographers will love that!MonkeyPaw - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
These days I transfer photos wirelessly. I just enable Wifi on my Sony Alpha and then pick the shots I want off the Camera and let it sync. I do this with my iPad and then let it sync through iCloud.Morawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
yea that works with your camera, but my family and friends ask me to put their photo's on disc, or thumb drives a lot, and your method only works if you have a wifi camera.BillBear - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
They have made SD cards that add WiFi transfer ability to any camera (along with the traditional flash storage) for quite a few years now.http://techpp.com/2015/04/28/wifi-sd-cards-camera/
Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Those cards are expensive, slow to save the files, slow to transfer them and have deleterious effects on your camera's battery life. There are an awful lot of scenarios where those drawbacks are a killer for professional usage.BillBear - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
A fifty dollar card suitable for a home user is hardly expensive.The statement that your camera must come with WiFi for you to be able to use WiFi is completely false.
The Pros, of course, will pay more for professional grade equipment.
nikon133 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
You still don't think that SD reader would be, say, easier and more logical solution? For Pros who already have big money invested in expensive media cards, at least?Interesting.
fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Please tell us why professional photographers at media events still have "card runners" that shuttle the SD cards around because the wi-fi doesn't cut it for huge files? This is not a "pro" device anymore than their iPad Pro is a "pro" device.Impulses - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
That's really slow unless Sony's wifi happens to be 5x quicker than just about everyone else's and you've got a really solid signal... Fast SD cards/readers can easily surpass 150MB/s these data.That being said, a Type C reader or an old one on an adapter isn't too much of a bother IMO... It might bug pros who'd rather not carry more stuff but built in readers always lag behind current standards and at the highest pros aren't even using SD anyway (CFast etc).
WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
People tend to use dongles the wrong way. Just leave the attached to the cords in question. thats it.spikebike - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Dunno, if you are a photographer you can either get a wifi enabled camera, a wifi enabled microsd card, or carry a tiny microsd dongle. So I suspect you are either a photographer with enough gear that a dongle is negligible, or you use your phone.pedjache - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I suspect he could get another lapotop.xype - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Yes, a SD card reader is definitely the deciding factor when buying laptops! Always has been, always will be.basroil - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
"Dunno, if you are a photographer you can either get a wifi enabled camera, a wifi enabled microsd card, or carry a tiny microsd dongle. So I suspect you are either a photographer with enough gear that a dongle is negligible, or you use your phone."Try uploading 4+ 128GB cards over wifi... I dare you... for most newer cards a USB3.0 card reader is practically mandatory if you don't want to sit for hours waiting for files to transfer
BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
If you are a professional photographer, you already shoot with your camera tethered to your laptop or tablet so you are able to see the results you're getting as you go.chaos215bar2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
You seem to have a very narrow idea of what kind of shoot a professional photographer might be doing. If you're shooting outdoors on a camera with a decently high resolution sensor, one thing I can guarantee is that you're *not* using microSD, and trying to transfer tens or hundreds of gigabytes of photos over WiFi is *not* going to be fun. I would say you're probably using CompactFlash (or maybe XQD) anyway, but increasingly that's not the case.Impulses - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Pros are probably using CFast or other formats at the high end anyway and/or using runners when time is really of the essence. Having to carry or adapt a small pocket reader might bother some but it's hardly a deal breaker, and it still makes a heck of a lot more sense than Wi-Fi for anything but really mobile use.BillBear - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Tethered image capture is one of the basic functions of Adobe Lightroom and this is exactly the sort of thing real pros do on a shoot. How in the world do you imagine a professional photographer would use the tiny screen on the camera itself to preview their work during a shoot?The images are immediately transferred from the tethered camera into software like Lightroom running on a laptop. The "tether" itself can be either a wired or wireless connection depending on how much you need to move around during the shoot.
The nice thing about this particular version of the display technology is that it's ten bits per pixel and Displaymate has called it the most color accurate display they have ever measured when it was added to the iPad and iPhone.
http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_Pro9_ShootOut_1.ht...
Real professionals like to be able to see exactly how their images will look when printed while they are still in the middle of their shoot.
Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
"Real professionals"So the rest of us are, what? Dicking around?
Seriously, try being the next Gary Winogrand whilst carrying a laptop around with you for tethering. :|
WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
Hit the nail on the head.And now that these new MacBook pros also support P3 and 10bit color, I bet you their displays are going to be incredible.
BillBear - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Gee, you know so much about the pros except for how they've been working for years now?Hell, some of the more recent award winning kit for the Pros has been wireless tethering hardware designed to work just with iOS so that not only can can you see the images as you take them on an iPad, but clients present at the shoot can also see them wirelessly from their own iDevice without getting close enough to disturb the shoot.
http://camranger.com/commercial/
jaydee - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I haven't been a wedding this year, but I have a hard time picturing the photographer with a camera in one hand, holding a laptop with the other, looking at every picture in between shots. I guess that's how they do it these days?Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Not weddings, no, because you often only get one go at a shot. But for any studio work, digital cameras have been tethered for as long as I can remember. Press and sports photographers tether too, in order to get the images out as soon as possible.nikon133 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Studio, sure.Sports, I cannot remember seeing all those photographs around fields having anything but camera and tripod/monopod. Or any other "action/moment" scenario - red carpet, politics, wildlife, war, underwater...
What would be the point of having big screen preview, anyway? So you can figure out photo doesn't look dope enough, and ask Obama and Putin to shake hands again, just for your 2nd photo opportunity? Ask Ronaldo to replay his winning goal because you were reviewing previous snaps on your laptop and missed right moment? :)
Or... would you fire up hundreds/thousands of snaps, using bracketing, HDR... and relying on software to improve selected photos in post-process, if further improvement is needed?
fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Odd, I've never seen a sideline photographer at an NFL game tethered to a laptop.....I think maybe you are full of crap.WinterCharm - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
So, get a nice USB 3 or (hey why not) Thunderbolt dock.Morawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
i another Dongle4Life fan.. encouraging consumers to buy all the functionality that apple took out.Daniel Egger - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
That's about the only change I couldn't care less about... The built-in reader was only a convenience feature, some external readers are a lot faster...zeeBomb - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Quintessential upgrades...other laptop manufactures are taking notes about that! Other than it being light, the price bump from like $200 hurts me a little...I wonder what Is the settings for the I/O, and if u can use an apple pen on the track pad.
madwolfa - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
As a touch-typing sysadmin, I died a little inside seeing no physical ESC and function keys. And the remaining keys are getting even less travel (coz all we needed is an even thinner MBP)..spikebike - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
What is the problem? Just buy the 13" macbook pro with the physical esc key. I've typed on a macbook air, it's slightly different but seems pretty nice. I had no trouble touch typing quickly.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
That may not work here, spikebike. The MacBook Air used the previous style keys while the 12" MacBook introduced the butterfly keys. We're now at the 2nd gen butterfly keys, so maybe they offer more travel, resistance, sound, feel, etc., but we'll have to use to know for sure if it's better or worse. Regardless, it seems silly if one considers that a deal breaker.madwolfa - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Believe it or not - keyboard might be a deal breaker for some people, especially ones who type a lot (developers, sysadmins).psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Most people whose workplaces give them MacBook Pros will also have an external keyboard and mouse for desk use (connected to a dock that was probably the cheapest dock on the market so everyone cries a little when they go to work).Some people care enough to spend the money on a decent silent mechanical keyboard. Most, I find, simply don't care and use the keyboard they are given. Which for PC installations is the $5 Dell/HP keyboard and mouse!
bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I agree with this. I had to adapt to the rMBP keyboard after using PC keyboards forever, and it took some time and was annoying. I don't think it's a superior keyboard solution, at least not for me, but it is bearable. But if the keyboard got significantly worse with this new generation ... count me out. Won't know until I try it though.solipsism - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
@bji, you're complaining about the keyboards that people like in the Retina MBPs, not the new, 1st gen butterfly keys that original 12" MacBook and the 2nd gen in the new MBPs, yet to be rereleased.Space Jam - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Developer here, the butterfly keys are a deal breaker for me. I haven't gotten to try the 2nd gen butterfly keys, but if they're not good, then the rMBP is a no deal for me. I've been waiting for this machine and it's disappointing to see Apple's choices.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
@Space Jam, you start off with an absolute statement that it's a dealbreaker for you because of the butterfly keys. Then your next sentence uses a qualifier 'if' to suggest that you'll wait to see if they're good or bad, and even note that you're aware that these are a 2nd gen of the butterfly keys foudn in the MacBook.One thing Apple has been excellent at in the past is making their pro-level keyboards and trackpads work great, so I'm hopefuly. That said, I did test out the original 12" MacBook and after 2 weeks of using it as my primary device never got accustom to the keybaord, so I'm also weary. It's a smaller keyboard, so that could be it, but either way I'm overdue for a MacBook Pro update and love the other features so I'm going to get used it to no matter what.
My biggest concerns right now are:
1a) Will the two 12V outlets and one USB port in my automobile work for charing it on the road.
1b) If it will charge, how long will it take
1c) Can I have more than one plugged in for faster charging?
2) I also use Windows via Boot Camp. What kind of support for the Touch Bar can I expect?
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
You're quite boring.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Your comment is pointless and a waste of everyone's time.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
My error was being riled a fan boy's 'my favourite [brand] can do no wrong' endless arguments... But point taken.Space Jam - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
>One thing Apple has been excellent at in the past is making their pro-level keyboards and trackpads work greatThat's why i'm typing this from a Macbook Pro. Trackpads not so much, i've played around with the retina (especially 2015 retina), and they've gone downhill in their search of thinness.
I've also played with the rMB and its butterfly switches are a complete deal breaker for me on a machine. The 2nd generation would have to be massively different to not be. Even the 2015 rMBP has fallen down the tiers for me quite a bit for its sacrificing key travel that make it a very unpleasant device to use. I don't see how the 2nd gen butterfly switches could be better than what they're replacing, but i'll give them a shot. For now though, i've got to start looking at other options for my next laptop.
1a) Probably, yeah
1b) Slow
1c) Hmmmmmmmmm I imagine it's doable, though pretty risky.
2) i'd expect it to offer the standard FN keys and escape, nothing more.
solipsism - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
"2) i'd expect it to offer the standard FN keys and escape, nothing more."That's what I'm expecting but I'm curious how this will work. Will Windows see this as a second display, or has Apple isolated this bar in a way that Windows will only register the basic signal of a typical key being pressed.
nikon133 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
My understanding is that "problem" with MB keyboard is not new butterfly design, but shallow travel. Which is necessity because of slim laptop profile. I'm not sure how much do keys travel, but have noticed that new slim Asus Zenbook 3 has mere 0.8mm key travel... I'm guessing MB is somewhere there, too.ArsTechnica had some hands on time with new MBP and, according to them, key travel on new MBP is noticeably improved over MB. Keycaps wobble is also pretty much non-existent. However, travel is not as good as with previous MBP models... eventually, this will be a bit of mixed bag, from user to user.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/hands-on-with...
Daniel Egger - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Same here. Will definitely have to try them in person before making a move but all in all this is not the machine I've been waiting for...madwolfa - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
But base 13" Macbook Pro is quite underspecced (and lacking ports). I need a powerful machine able to run couple VMs and compile the code. Oh well. My early-2015 model should serve me OK for a while.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
If you need "a powerful machine able to run couple VMs and compile the code" then why would you consider the replacement to the 13" MacBook Air as a choice?madwolfa - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Because it was suggested by a poster above as it still has a physical function key row.BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
No. The newly released 13" Macbook Pro has physical function keys on the cheapest model.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Yes it does, Bill. It has no Touch bar, no Touch ID, no Apple Pay (so no T1 chip), and only 2 USB-C ports. It's all listed above. It's why this can fit a 10% larger battery.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
You seem to be confusing the Air and the Pro.ToTTenTranz - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Link to specs of the available dGPUs in the new 15" macs:http://creators.radeon.com/radeon-pro/
Pro 460 seems to be a full Polaris 11 at 911MHz (the same GPU frequency as the PS4 Pro)
thCRITICALThinker - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I may be a bit biased against, but I see no reason for even a current Mac user to switch to this device, it requires a new, less robust and failsafe charger, still needs a dongle to do anything (can't wait to see the squids roaming around my school in the next two years), and TBH is completely uninspiring, with only efficiency coming into play with newer internals.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
1) What's not robust about being able to use USB anywhere for charging? You can charge whislt driving now.2) Why do I need a dongle when I have USB-A-to-USB-C cables from Monoprice. I even have a USB-C-to-SATA cable that doesn't need an external power supply for work, where I often have to reimage a 2.5" drive on the go.
3) What's uninspiring about Touch Bar, Touch ID, Apple Pay, the much better display, an overdue move to USB-C, and all other advancements. I'm just waiting for the rest of the PC vendors to catch up—just like they did when Apple first moved to USB.
divertedpanda - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
2) Now you have to buy all new USB C to XXX cables after buying the new laptop. WOOO.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
1) Yes, just like at some point I had to let go of my printer's parallel cable and start using USB and had to let go to VGA and start using DVI and then mDP.2) Have you heard of Monoprice? I just spent a couple grand on a computer, a couple dollars more for an abundance of universal cables isn't an issue.
bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I don't want to carry cables around. Especially when there is almost no justification for reducing the variety of connectors on the laptop aside from aesthetics or a slavish devotion to regularity (a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, in case you didn't know).solipsism - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Then this Mac is a brilliant move in that direction. I don't want to carry cables, hence my clear comments stating that I will have power cables in various places so I don't have to carry them around.psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
The shocker for iPhone users is needing to buy a USB C to Lighting cable to connect together your Apple devices.IMO Apple should include a USB C to USB A adaptor in the box.
What is good is that all four of the ports can be used interchangeably. However I'm going to miss the HDMI output which is great for workplaces where the meeting rooms have HDMI cables. I guess that's one more adaptor...
willis936 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
3. lel you mean the thing lenovo's been doing for nearly a decade in their laptops and it's always been underwhelming and unwanted?solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
@willis93, you mean the crappy adaptive keys they scrapped because it sucked? You're claiming this is what Apple did? Where is Lenovo's Touch ID and Apple Pay? Oh yeah, laptops have used biometrics in the past, so that much they were exaclty the same as Apple's Touch ID¡I'm hoping one day you and people like you can stop taking some conflating some generalize concept to mean that the failed, half-assed attempts are the best that will ever be possible. For example, Touch ID compared to biometrics that existed on laptops before.
nerd1 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
LOL... apple invented fingerprint reader which has been around in business laptops since decades ago!techconc - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
@nerd1 - Which laptop has had a built in secure enclave and an actual finger print system that works? Which laptop has had something that's actually suitable for security and e-commerce? Seriously, think before you comment.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
I have seen you repeat the Apple Pay line a dozen times in the comments section here, but how is Apple Pay an added convenience on a laptop?Impulses - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'm kinda glad they're doubling down on Type C even tho I've got zero interest in Macs, selfishly it means quicker adoption/transition of the superior port and more accessories available for my phone sooner... There's a dearth of choice in Type C battery packs right now.MattMe - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'd been thinking the same thing. Would never had dared type it out though.USB C (particularly with TB3) is such a good universal port I want it on everything.
Shame they went with Lightning port on the iPhones, because that does cock it all up.
Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It really does, bugs the sh*t out of me. One port to rule them all and then this other thing, too.Impulses - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It doesn't even make that much sense in the long run to keep Lighting around, outside of whatever nominal fees they make on licensing... People are largely going wireless anyway so it's not like this is a big point of leverage for Beats or something. You'd think they'd even save a bundle by unifying chargers, cables, and and all sorts of components related to the ports themselves.KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Apple caught a lot of flack for ditching the unwieldy 30-pin port for Lightning in 2012. They promised back then that it would be their iOS port for a "long time." If they switched to USB-C you can bet there would be 1000-message threads about how "greedy Apple is making us buy all new accessories." They may do so eventually, but perhaps not, since Lightning is smaller than USB-C.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It's not better than magsafe for the power cable though.KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
It's a mixed bag. I've enjoyed being able to use an external battery to charge my MacBook, or any USB-C-compliant cable and charger.Speedfriend - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
solipsismApple is so innovative. Now you can just charge you Macbook on your iPad cable....oh wait a minute.
spikebike - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I wonder why the 2 higher 13" models have a smaller battery than the base. Additionally the CPU, GPU, 4xTB3, and touchbar should take more power, presumably that plus a smaller battery would result in a shorter runtime.Gigaplex - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm guessing that the extra hardware means less room for a larger battery.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
There's extra HW in the devices with the Touch Bar. No, not 'just' the 2nd display, but also Touch ID and Apple Pay controller. There's also 2x2 USB-C ports compared to the 1x2 USB-C ports for the entry-level 13" MacBook Pro sans the Touch Bar.On top of that, even amongst components that appear to be exactly the same, there are both performance and power efficiency differences that can occur. While I do expect it to fair better, I'ld be surpirsed if the duration matches the additional increase in battery capacity (i.e.: about 10% longer).
Rampart19 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
For the 2 extra TB3 ports, it means second controller chip.SnowleopardPC - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
So, I am in the photography and videography industry. We only shoot 4k, some 8k video and 36-100mp SLR's and Medium format still cameras.20 years ago all it was; was "APPLE". Let me explain something here. Lets tear down the most expensive one. The 15 inch loaded model for $2399. It is using a mid grade, not high end Intel mobile CPU. Second, the graphics card is weak compared to what is available on the market.
I my line of work we make a basic line in the sand...... A fancy super thin tablet that all we can do is email people on because LR, PS, Capture One, 3D Studio, Maya, will all take hours to get anything done on....... That is your premium Macbook Pro for $2399. It's for your weekend videographer or photographer and then 6 months after they make that "expensive" purchase all we hear about is...... Why is my LR catalog taking an hour to load 5 photos..... (We have to laugh at these people)...... With Apple, you never get what you pay for.
I can take that same $2399 and go to Origin PC, Sager, Clevo, Eurocom and get at least double or triple the performance for the same price. What takes hours do to can be done in tens of minutes. They don't use crippled i5's or i7's with the "U" after them.
To re-enforce that crap, I have never heard of (In a premium laptop) about "under clocking" Is that Apples new strategy? We are charging you the price for a high end product, but then we are screwing you by "under clocking" it to make the thermals work(That is true).......
If you under clock something, it will produce less heat, and you will get better battery life..... But then the point of buying such an expensive laptop is mute.......
Under clocking also will increase your workflow time, but I guess if you want a $2399 tablet with a keyboard to read emails and surf un-appropriate websites, I guess it is your money? LOL
Rampart19 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Chill out and get your facts straight. The entry 15" MBP uses a quad-core CPU, the i7-6700HQ to be exact (probably because it doesn't need the better Iris graphics). It can go up to the i7-6920HQ. These are the chips you will find in all the other 15" laptops from those manufacturers.nerd1 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Clevo laptops can have i7 6700K and GTX 1080 for lower price than top speced mbp.Daniel Egger - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
If you want desktop hardware, why not buy a desktop system?SnowleopardPC - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Because this isn't 2002 when I use to have a full tower ATX pc and laser printer hard wired in the back of my crew cab for a mobile office.I want the power for a mobile 4k/8k and 100mp still editing station. It's a pain in the ~~~ to carry a tower, monitor and printer in your car/truck, etc....
I guess if I really wanted to though....... Mac Pro desktop $6,000+..... Home built desktop for $6,000..... 128gb ram, dual hex core xeons, a couple of SSD's in raid 0 for the OS and the intensive software, dual 12gb video cards....... etc..... What does the Mac Pro Desktop really have to offer other than breaking the bank account for nothing?
Icehawk - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
That Clevo weighs 12lbs dudeV900 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Nonsense... Both Clevo and Eurocom sell a 15 inch laptop with desktop GPU/CPU that weighs 5-6 lbs.You can also get it with a laptop CPU/GPU that's newer than what the new MBP has, and at a lower price.
Apple really screwed up the new MBP-line...
KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
What kind of battery life do they get with a 91W processor? That's practically a really bright incandescent light bulb.SnowleopardPC - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
12 pounds is the loaded 17 inch Clevo with a 4k screen and 4 storage bays with a high end CPU and dual graphics cards.... Something no Mac Laptop is capable of anymore. You have to carry around the Mac Pro Desktop for that type of power.SnowleopardPC - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Exactly, and all the parts including the CPU in the laptops is user replaceable.SnowleopardPC - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I am chilled out. Infact The first 5 years I used computers, I used "Macs" 90% of the time, this was when Mac's were innovative and not gimmicks. I actually have a collection of collectable macs in my office and a Next Cube.What Apple sells today is really a con.
nerd1 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
You are too well informed to be their target audience.psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
20 years ago ... 1996 - Apple was nearly dead.If you earn money from your work, then $3000 on a laptop with a 3GB/s SSD and P3 gamut display is peanuts. A 1.86 GFLOPS GPU with good OpenCL support is great for on-the-go edits. Not running out of battery is worth its weight in gold. Not breaking your back with a 10lb+ 'laptop' is also worth a lot.
It's when people who are professionals start complaining about the cost of their primary tool that you suspect that they are actually at best semi-professionals with a hobby.
nils_ - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
If 10lbs breaks your back you ought to go to the gym more...KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Who wants a 10lb laptop? This isn't 1992 anymore.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Well said. Especially the last bit.V900 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Then it's sure is a shame that no pro would go for the new MBP... Seeing as they removed all the ports, and replaced it with (too few) replacements that nobody uses.techconc - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Your comment is pretty ridiculous on many levels and it's clear that you simply don't like Apple or resent them for some reason. For starters, most people don't buy laptops for the very high end tasks that are best suited for workstations. These days, storage I/O is a far bigger bottleneck than CPU or GPU performance. Further, even these laptops are considerably faster than high end workstations from just a couple years ago. The point being, claiming these devices aren't suitable for any of the applications you mentioned is a demonstration of ignorance on your part. That's not to say that rendering on 3D applications couldn't benefit from more power... Rather, these laptops are very well suited for the category of product they represent.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
"Rather, these laptops are very well suited for the category of product they represent."That category of product being overpriced gimmicks for fanboys?
HomeworldFound - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm surprised that Apple removed keys. I don't like the idea of a Touch Bar at all. When things lock up and crash, you've just lost your row of physical keys.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
When was the last time a computer crashed on you? Admittedly I use Windows 10 (has never crashed).bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Windows 10 crashes for me alot. Mostly on shutdown, it will hang for no reason. Also my mouse pointer disappears sometimes. Admittedly, this is primarily my VR PC that is running SteamVR alot and that thing does all kinds of wacky stuff that is probably part of the root cause.Also, Windows 10 updates itself SO FREQUENTLY, forces reboots at inopportune times, and takes many minutes to boot up probably one out of every 4 reboots due to installing updates. Honestly, the whole forced, frequent, slow update procedure is so unbelievably consumer unfriendly that I fundamentally believe that Windows 10 is an essentially unusable product. I only use it because I have to on my VR PC. Worst Windows Ever, and that is really saying something.
psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
What are you using the function keys for when the computer has 'locked up' or 'crashed'?HomeworldFound - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Alt+F4 haha. Windows 10 hasn't been the best for me, I like to game so I probably experience more bugs than the average person.HomeworldFound - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Keep in mind using F5 and F9 a lot. I run a lot of alpha and beta gaming software. The mac might be more stable and less about gaming but hey... I can see it going wrong for me, particularly when loading up Windows or doing something more unstable.eatrains - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
The shortcut for quitting programs on Macs is Command-Q, has been for decades. The vast majority of keyboard shortcuts on Macs use the Command, Option, and Control keys.PVG - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
2800€ (two thousend eight hundred) for a 15'' laptop. With 256GB of storage. And limited to 16GB of RAM. And they put a "Pro" on it.Sounds like a joke. But I can't laugh.
basroil - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
"All of them get the same new unibody design, the same wide color gamut (P3) display"Since when is P3 "wide color gamut"? It has identical blue to green coverage as sRGB, and pretty much a red shifted aRGB in terms of width! Hell, some dell monitors have nearly twice the coverage!
nerd1 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Magsafe gone, DP and hdmi gone, no legacy usb ports, smaller battery, travel-less keyboard, AMD GPU... and they call this a pro machine!I know it will still sell like hotcakes, but still...
ThreeDee912 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I can take all these changes, but I can't take the increase in price for everything. The base 13" has less ports and doesn't even have the fancy new touch bar, but is $300 more than the previous model.Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'm with you on this.watzupken - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I feel Apple's obsession with slimness that Anandtech rightly pointed out, is getting out of hand. It seems they don't understand that a well designed hardware is not about how slim it gets. Practically all their hardware are losing functionalities/ connectivity as a result of this obsession. I think they can try to push this boundary, but it will eventually hit a tipping point that it becomes too hard to use and to justify buying an inconvenient hardware that relies heavily on buying a lot of other accessories to make up for the shortfall in this port and that.nerd1 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
There are slimmer and lighter laptops with better connectivity, more battery and horsepower.Apple just aims at deep pocketed people who wont care about productivity.
TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I know that's not true. More power sure, but not slimmer and lighter at the same time. I have had tons of laptops over the years and the MacBook Pros have been the best performing, with the best travel aesthetics (size and weight), and the best quality (fit and finish.) And I care deeply about productivity, I use my machines All day ... every day ... an integral part of my career.nerd1 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Any laptop with quadcore cpu and nvdia gpu can easily beat mbp in terms of performance.psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
MBP uses a quadcore CPU, and Nvidia don't offer 35W mobile GPUs from their Pascal line (yet - GP107 will surely soon have such an option).techconc - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
@nerd1Which of those laptops has the same 3GB/s storage performance? That's a factor that impacts more workflows than CPU or GPU and yet few people understand enough to even bring it up in their comparisons. There will always be a product that performs better at some subset. Yet, when you understand more of the full picture, your value proposition fades away.
nerd1 - Tuesday, November 1, 2016 - link
LOL.. anyone can buy 960 pro SSD and put it in their laptop. And it's more for benchmark bragging too (I use 950 pro but it's hardly faster than my other system with xp941)fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
The amount of time spent transferring at 3GB/s is miniscule, they certainly aren't getting 3 GB/s at QD1 that's for sure.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
HP Spectre is slimmer and faster.Spunjji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
How do you know? Have you benchmarked them both? :|TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'm looking at the specs for the HP Specter and I'm not seeing it. Slower Processor Options, No Iris PRO graphics, Limited RAM options, Lower-Res Screen. Um..... Sorry. It's not true.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Maybe the UK machines have different specs, but comparing ~£1,500 models, here we're looking at i5 vs i7, 2.0 GHz vs 2.5 GHz CPU and 256 GB vs 512 GB storage, Pro vs Spectre. Graphics definitely better on the Pro but these aren't really games machines.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I think they hit that tipping point this generation. The sacrifices they have made to get slimmer have reduced the functionality of the laptop to a degree that makes it uninteresting, at least for me. I will just have to chug along in my 2012 rMBP for another 4 years ...V900 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
When did Anandtech point this out? If anything they seem to be supporting this nonsense!Morawka - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
LMAO all these apple fans waited for 3 years for apple to update their macbook pro line, and what does apple do??!@?!?! They use a 1 year old CPU when the competition is using 7th gen Kaby Lake.I feel for you apple fans.. Thats almost as bad as Microsoft using Keplar in their new Surface Studio computer instead of Pascal.
Apple is losing touch with it's base... There is only so much crap your fans will endure. The removal of the "Escape" key, and using 1 year old CPU's, and raising prices +$200 across the board while using old cpu tech, is a sure way to make your customers feel that their new notebook is already antiquated. Also, they removed the SD Card reader, while not a big deal for most, still adds up. At some point in time, you have to ask yourself, is all that stuff they removed worth a 3mm thinner laptop? or are you just ok with buying and carrying around a multitude of dongles to replace all that functionality they took out.
Kaby Lake added hardware H.265 MAIN encoder and thats a big deal for creatives that use these laptops for video editing. but apple staying with skylake ensures they get slightly cheaper cpu prices at the expense of their loyal customers.
PS: oh they used AMD instead of Nvidia, but i won't count that. Nvidia's Pascal Arch offers much better perf per watt than Polaris.
Lavkesh - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
LMAO all you will but Quad Core i7 Kaby lake chips havent even started shipping yet! The comments section used to be good on Anandtech but now it is just a vent out for butt hurt dell/hp/xyz fans who are possibly looking for the best driver to update after a recent update.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Apple should have waited, or negotiated a better place in Intel's pipeline.KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Intel isn't shipping the Kaby Lake 28W or 45W chips to anyone yet. It isn't about a place in line. And after last year's Skylake GPU driver debacle I'm guessing Apple is probably happy it waited to release Skylake Macs. The original Surface Book had massive crashing issues for the first few months.jaydee - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I think the point is, Apple is now releasing their "new" devices with CPU's that have been released over a year ago. Not long ago, it seemed that Intel's latest and greatest would premier with the latest Macs.In the real world scenarios, there's not going to be a lot more performance from Kaby Lake than Sky Lake (except HEVC playback battery life). The issue that I think people have, Apple and their fans used to boast about having the latest and greatest Intel CPUs as a huge selling point, but now that that is no longer the case, everyone wants to to say that "it doesn't matter", when clearly is did use to matter.
TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It doesn't really matter anymore... Intel can go to a Tick-Tock-Tack-Tuck-Teck cycle all they want. Manufacturers and consumers have decided to stop playing Intel's yearly upgrade game and engineer and purchase new produces when it makes sense for them....NOT FOR INTEL.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Except they aren't. The other manufacturers are releasing Kaby Lake laptops, Apple isn't. So while your emperor wearing no clothes says the removal of SD is good, a shrinking battery is good, using old tech is good, it doesn't make it so.KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
The speed differences from generation to generation aren't that big anymore. Plus the only time Apple got a "special" chip from Intel was with the original MacBook Air. That one overheated a lot (and wasn't so special). Apple actually shipped a Core 2 Duo-equipped 13" MacBook Pro when the rest of the industry switched to the Nehalem Core i5/i7 because Nehalem's integrated graphics were awful. And for that matter, the Surface Studio everyone is drooling over has a Skylake chip, as does the new Surface Book.Morawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Hey, Apple has waited this long without a update, whats a couple of more months to ensure your shipping something with the latest and greatest?I'll tell you why, to meet the holiday season. again, a decision the benefits apple and not the consumer. I mean, this choice goes against their entire design philosophy. on the iphone, they love to tout how they have the latest and greatest CPU's, but on notebooks, it doesnt matter.
KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Because it would be more than a couple of months with testing and certification. Plus Intel has had yield issues and prioritizes the higher volume 15W processors even if the higher wattage chips are technically shipping.My guess is Apple has looked at Intel's roadmap and concluded Kaby Lake isn't worth the wait. It should bring a bit more boost to the 12" MacBook so they'll probably do another silent upgrade in April like they did this year, but it's entirely possible that for the MacBook Pro they may skip Kaby Lake and jump right to Cannonlake/Coffee Lake in an early 2018 release.
fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
Uh, which is it? You said both of these statements"Intel isn't shipping the Kaby Lake 28W or 45W chips to anyone yet."
"Plus Intel has had yield issues and prioritizes the higher volume 15W processors even if the higher wattage chips are technically shipping."
So are they shipping higher wattage chips or are they not?
BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
How dare they be limited to using components that are actually shipping sometime this year?>Since the Haswell generation in 2013, Intel has sold two different kinds of 15W and 45W laptop chips: versions with higher base CPU clock speeds and weaker integrated GPUs and versions with stronger integrated GPUs but lower base clock speeds. Apple has, to date, exclusively used the versions with superior GPUs.
>The problem for Apple is that, for the last few years, Intel has rolled out its good GPUs many months after shipping chips with weaker GPUs. Intel has told us not to expect Iris GPUs or any kind of quad-core Kaby Lake processors until after CES in January. So for pretty much every system that Apple is most likely to refresh on Thursday, Kaby Lake chips just aren’t ready.
>This is disappointing, but it’s also not the end of the world. In most respects, Kaby Lake is an extremely minor update to Skylake that focuses mostly on small clock speed increases and better support for decoding and encoding 10-bit 4K video. Users who do lots of work with 4K video should go for a Mac with a dedicated GPU, since both AMD and Nvidia’s newest chips should offer the same or superior support for 4K.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/what-to-expec...
psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Where are the quad-core Kaby Lakes?Where are the 35W mobile Pascal GPUs that give over 50 GFLOPS/W?
Yes, they will both come next year. And at that time, Apple will not use them immediately (and Apple and Nvidia don't have the best relationship anyway). And we don't know if 35W GP107s will be any better than 35W Polaris 11s.
sfwineguy - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Wow. I may not be the target market for these (at least right away), or the typical commenter, but I think Apple is taking an unjustified beating here for some things. Last time I looked, Intel had not yet made available Kaby Lake in anything above 15W, or with eDRAM. I can't believe they would build machines that are limited by existing components!BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm sure those same people would feel that Microsoft's brand new $3000 Surface Studio PC with a Skylake i5, a spinning rust hard drive, and an ancient NVIDIA GeForce GTX 965M GPU takes price gouging for under-powered hardware to a new extreme.Hell, it doesn't even have a single Thunderbolt port.
They wouldn't want to be hypocrites, I feel very sure. :oP
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I complained about the Stupid Surface too :).Money for old rope, both. With Google having given up on value (see the Pixel phone), it's a bit depressing.
Icehawk - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Those Surface Studio prices are insaneMorawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
yeah if it didn't have a full digitizer on a 28" screen. That feature singlehandidly makes it worth much more.fanofanand - Thursday, November 3, 2016 - link
They do, go read the comments there. Everyone has said the same thing, beautiful monitor, ridiculous price for the ancient components. If you want to use anecdotal evidence at least be aware of the anecdotal evidence.zodiacsoulmate - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
it's LPDDR4 right? not LPDDR3BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
The tech specs page says it's LPDDR3.http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
Apparently, there is a newer version of LPDDR3 called LPDDR3E that runs at the higher speed.
>JEDEC has unveiled a new, three-step plan. In the first step, the industry has devised LPDDR3E, an extension to LPDDR3 that has a data rate of 17-GB/s in a dual-channel mode at 1.2 volts.
>Following LPDDR3E, the industry will follow two simultaneous avenues. It will take another evolutionary and safe path with 2D-based LPDDR4. It also will pursue the more revolutionary path with 3D-based Wide I/O-2. “Both candidates will have their own positions in the mobile industry,” Choi said.
http://semiengineering.com/mobile-memory-madness/
psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Yeah, I saw that too and wondered. I mean, it's the speed that matters in the end, so 2133MHz will suffice, especially on the systems with discrete GPUs with their own memory, but it does feel a bit odd.But then again, Skylake's memory controller supports LPDDR3 and DDR4 (not LPDDR4).
KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
No, because Skylake doesn't support it. That's also why it is limited to 16GB. They'd need to use the hungrier DDR4 (sans LP) to go any higher.webdoctors - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
To not use a Geforce graphics card for the high end laptop config is a punch in the face to all the patient Apple fans. This is a difference you'd actually notice as the perf/watt advantage of Nvidia over AMD right now is huge. In the desktop market the noticeable differences are debatable, but in mobile come on, this is ridonkulous.psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Where is the 35W Pascal GPU? Answer: There is none. There are none that get close to 50 GFLOPS/W in that power use.AMD win by default. They also win by working closely with Apple, and being nice to work with (by all accounts - Sony, Microsoft ...).
Morawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
yeah but apple hasnt updated the rMBP line for 3 years, a couple more months is not gonna hurt. they just dont like Nvidianerd1 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
WHO asked for 35w gpu? XPS 15 has 75W 960m and razer blade has 120W 1060. And they are just as light and cheaper too...Lolimaster - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
AMD mobile chips are based on a mature 14nm, their perf/watt are on par with nvidia.Morawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
i dont think AMD's 14nm for big chips is mature. they have so far shipped one GPU on the process, and the gpu die is super small. they are gonna have trouble on these bigger gpu'snerd1 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Thats pure bs. They never matched nvidia during 28nm days. Just check the review.B166ER - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
So them smoke gray/black colors is oimp, but really, Skylake? Apple wasn't forward enough and "in the know" with Intel to get Kaby lake on lock?KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
The only one they could have shipped with Kaby Lake was the base 13" model.Aritra Ghatak - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
This time they took it from LG V20.Impulses - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I'm kinda surprised they elected to nix any form of standard/existing video out port yet kept the 3.5mm analog audio out they just killed on the iPhone.I guess it'd be confusing to have a Lighting port on a laptop merely to promote Lighting connected headphones, but it creates a weird dichotomy.
Guess they're betting everyone is taking audio wireless anyway, yet had the space to spare to keep 3.5mm around? Hmm
khon - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
So $1500 for the base version with a skylake i5 CPU ? Maybe that's appealing to Apple fans, but for ~$1200 you could get an HP or Asus notebook, with Kaby Lake i7 CPUs, both of which are thinner and lighter in spite of having a rotatable screen.Topogram - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
What's nuts is that a fully maxed out 13" MacBook Pro doesn't meet the minimum specs of Civilization VI (dual core, no Iris Pro). All that for more money. Really disappointing.TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
*cough* bullshit *couch*Minimum
OS: Windows 7 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit
CPU: Intel Core i3 2.5 Ghz or AMD Phenom II 2.6 Ghz or greater
Memory: 4 GB RAM
HDD: 12 GB or more
DVD-ROM: Required for disc-based installation
GPU: 1 GB DirectX 11 Video Card (AMD 5570 or nVidia 450)
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
"Though the event was very brief on how Apple was able to shave off so much volume compared to the last generation" -- battery capacity us reduced by 25%. That's the entire volume reduction and more, right there."the basic 13” model forgoes the Touch Bar in favor of a traditional row of function keys, presumably for cost reasons" -- no, the touch bar hardware will be be barely ten dollars. It's too drive buyers towards the higher-margin models.
Although it's great to see Thunderbolt 3 implemented properly, a P3 gamut display (though I'm waiting for rec2020 myself) and damned good SSDs, the prices on these devices are daft, just like with iPhones.
One side note -- expect to see the Macbook Air quietly vanish at some point soon, now it's redundant. But it was a great machine in its time.
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Oh actually the 11" Air has been dropped. Don't think Anandtech mentioned that.yhselp - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Not Crystalwell CPUs for the 15" models? That's unfortunate. Intel do offer both 6th gen i5s and i7s with Iris Pro graphics. There's no $1999 option like there used to be for the 15" model either.I hope Apple comes to their senses and offers a 15" model with i5-6350HQ and no dGPU for $1999 in time for the Holidays.
yhselp - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Seeing the weight go down even further is very welcome. 4 lbs. for a fully-functional 15" notebook is great news.bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I have zero problems with the weight of the 2012 rMBP. It would be nice for the weight to be reduced, of course, but not at the cost of all of the lost functionality in the new generation. In fact I'd rather have the same weight and .5 lb more battery getting back to the same 4.5 lbs.yhselp - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
The previeous rMBPs are great, lightweight laptops for sure, but what's all the functionality that's been lost with the new MBPS? - and I'm not trying to get into an argument here - maybe I just missed something, and I wonder what that might've been. It's sucks not having MagSafe, dedicated HDMI out, and a card reader, but I see those as minor things. Shorter key travel might bother some, but that's a really a matter of preference. The big thing could be battery size, but Apple actually claims higher battery life for the new MBPs - 10 hrs vs. 9 hrs. It's possible the new display and memory tech make up for the the lesser battery capacity. What do you think?bji - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
The things you mentioned are the things I am talking about when I say lost functionality. Being able to plug my SD card in directly, or plug one of the numerous USB devices I have in directly, or not worry about tripping over my power cable because of magsafe. And if the key travel is less and has a compromised feel because of it, that's probably the most significant loss of all.If they put another .5 lb of battery in there, we'd be talking about much more than a one hour increase in battery left, and I'd find that a significant benefit, much more significant than a .5 lb lower weight.
I haven't the screen yet, if it's much better than the previous generation, then great. I would have much preferred more battery life and connector convenience over a 0.5 lb weight loss and some decreased thickness. The weight and thickness of the laptop were already completely acceptable to me.
yhselp - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
P.S. Or perhaps you meant that you'd rather have even more battery life along with the old conveniences, rather than a slightly lighter laptop. That makes sense, yes, but Apple has never prioritized battery life beyond a certain point in any device. I think it's great that we finally have a full-fledged laptop in what used to be ultrabook territory in terms of weight - that type of chassis used to be able to remove 15W of heat; now it's capable of removing 80W.nerd1 - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
Fully functional laptop with ZERO legacy port. Awesome.KPOM - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
Far from the first time Apple has dropped every legacy port. Look at the 1998 iMac. Or the 2015 MacBook. TB3 is at least backward compatible with plenty of third-party adapters and cables to choose from.psychobriggsy - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It would be very popular with businesses who don't need discrete GPU ability.However it seems likely that Apple are getting the Radeon Pro 950 for a cheaper price than the additional cost of Iris Pro.
yhselp - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
This can't be the reason because the Iris Pro part is cheaper than the one being shipped right now - $378 for the i7-6700HQ vs. $306 for the i5-6350HQ. Even if it has to be an i7 the 6770HQ costs $56 more than the 6700HQ, and it seems unlikely that the Radeon Pro 950 is less than that.Maybe Apple needs to get some volume going on the new MacBook Pros before it's willing to offer a base version w/o a dGPU.
nerd1 - Tuesday, November 1, 2016 - link
It lacks legacy ports (business people need them), MIL-SPEC ruggedness (business people need them), and splashproof keyboard.V900 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Mac owner and Apple enthusiast here, and very disappointed with the new MBP.Sure the new Touch Bar is cool and useful, and there are a few other bright spots, but overall very disappointing:
* Jacked up the prices beyond what's reasonable.
* Launched a Pro machine with T W O ports for everything.
* Took out all the ports that professionals use, replaced them with a port nobody uses. SERIOUSLY APPLE? You don't think professionals use USB/DP/SD/etc.?!?
* Useless weight/thickness gains. It's 15% thinner? Who cares? You know what nobody ever says? "My 2015 MBP is way too heavy/thick!" A bigger battery would be much more useful.
This is Tim Cooks Apple: Overpriced and out of touch...
bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I think that Cook feels desperately low on ideas that can produce new popular products and so has to resort to just pushing the same old concepts (thinner, lighter, simplified connector scheme) to higher levels, out of desperation to look like he's actually doing something.LuckyKnight - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I would have preferred Apple to wait till January so they could have used kaby lake with Iris graphics. I wanted 7th gen for HEVC / 4K / HDMI 2.0.Quite saddened they went with Skylake..
Ziich - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
just what exactly is the radeon pro 460? Is it too much to hope that is is the mobile version of the rx 480?Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
It's a Polaris 11 GPU, 16 CUs at about 910MHz with 5 Gbps GDDR5, 35W TDP. So a slower clocked RX 460.mopidicks - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
2.0GHz Core i5-6360U (Skylake)2.9GHz Core i5-6267U (Skylake)
How can Apple output 5K resolution using these cpu???
Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
DisplayPort tiling. A TB3 connection carries two DP 1.2 channels, each of which drives half of a 5K monitor.Lolimaster - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
So no USB 3.1 without adapter, no SD reader. Is this a Pro model?Jobs pissed.
V900 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
This Tim Cooks Apple, Lolimaster...Where they jack up the prices any chance they get, and launch "Pro" machines with only two ports and none of the connections a pro might expect.
What was that? You'd like to connect your iPhone to the MacBook Pro you just bought?
No Problemo! You just have to spend 200$ on a 2 pound USB-C dock, which you will need to carry around everywhere you go! But hey, look on the bright side! Your MacBook is 2mm thinner and 200 grands lighter!
gwcoffey - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Or, you know, buy the right cable.http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-...
KPOM - Tuesday, November 1, 2016 - link
You really think Steve Jobs would disapprove of Apple dropping legacy ports from a new Mac? Seriously? The guy who introduced the iMac in 1998 with zero support for every port that Apple had used up until that point, back when there were literally only a handful of USB devices out there?Jobs might disapprove of how cluttered the MacBook lineup has gotten (7 models including the carryover 2015 models), but he'd likely applaud Apple for pushing the rest of the industry to go all in with TB-3.
bji - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I love my 2012 rMBP, best laptop I have ever owned, hands down. First Mac, too, and I was excited to get something even better as an upgrade this generation.However, I am deeply disappointed in this new design, which reduces functionality that I actually care about, all for things that have no benefit to me.
I really do not want to go back to the bad old days of crummy PC laptops running Linux where half of the functionality does not work right (oh the number of times my Linux laptop froze trying to go to sleep or come out of sleep; the number of hours I have wasted on upgrades that broke drivers ....), so I guess I'll just use my rMBP another four years.
alpha754293 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Unless they're going to make the MacBook cheaper if they are to drop the MacBook Air from the lineup completely, I LIKED having a lower cost/entry option into the Mac world.olegbask - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
There are any news about MacBook AR coating?I look forward to see a next device, which will have the same screen as iPad Pro 9.7
LordConrad - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
For a company that markets itself to photo and video professionals, removing the SD card reader is just stupid!TEAMSWITCHER - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
SD technology? Are you serious?boozed - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
No Kaby Lake, interesting.solipsism - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
This is because of Intel. Some Kaby Lake chips have shipped in quantity, but not the ones Apple would have needed months ago for this release.Morawka - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
the 13" is not appealing compared to the 15"...The 15" comes with i7's by default, so you save a +$300 upgrade on the 13"
the 15" also comes with 16GB ram by default, so you save a +$200 upgrade there.
by the time you spec out a 13" rMBP with OLED bar, to a 15" rMBP with OLED bar, you might as well get the 15". if money is no object and you need the portability, then your probably looking at a Macbook, and not a 13" rMBP with OLED bar.
vaayu64 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
According to the JEDEC standard LPDDR3 can max out at only 1866 Mhz and not 2133 Mhz.How is that possible? I don't think Apple would overclock their RAM.
Meaker10 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
I had samsung chips that did 2133mhz 10-10-10-24-12-128-7-6-7-24-39 at 1.5v so loosen that up and bin it and you get 2133mhz. They won't care what JEDEC says when they control the stack like they do, it will matter about the chips.Zingam - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
I don't get it. How is 3Gb SSD fast?doggface - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
It is 3 GigaBYTES not 3 gigabit.8x faster than what you were saying.
B166ER - Sunday, October 30, 2016 - link
Apple be like, "We still got that 3.5mm on our laptops, bitches!!!"tipoo - Monday, October 31, 2016 - link
I think the variable refresh rate would probably be like the iPad Pro, where it varies between 60 and 30hz depending on on screen content.DougDolde - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
FUCK Apple and their Touch Bar