The device scores in the top of its class as it is. Iris graphics won't make it more useful in its intended usage context, only more expensive. But I guess the important part here is that your boyfriend won't be buying a device cuz it didn't have a component that makes no sense having. Good to know.
You're joking, right? I run procurement for an architecture office. I wouldn't order this over an XPS 13 because you can get the XPS with Iris. They're not the workhorse of our office, but for getting some work done on an airplane and giving a presentation while manipulating CAD drawings, something with Iris or discrete graphics is critical. I can appreciate that the niche for professional ultrabook users who demand higher graphics performance is small, but to say that it wouldn't make the product more useful to professionals is simply shortsighted.
ddriver is usually here for two purposes: -some pseudo-engineering rants that are laughable until you realize he might actually believe them (then it feels like you're laughing at an autistic kid). -make some sort of homophobic remark, or any kind of insult really. The kind that suggests he was raised and educated by 4chan.
You are joking, right? This is a convertible device that can be used as a tablet and comes with a stylus while the xps 13 is an ultrabook without tablet mode or stylus support. Which explains why the xps in a matching configuration is 100$ cheaper.
If you are a professional and need to work with CAD you don't get a "business class" generic ultrabook, you get a laptop with dedicated professional graphics, or the very least, something with a decent discrete graphics, like the xps 15
Iris critical for CAD - that's laughable to say the least. But wait, since you did say "drawings" I can only assume you mean 2D in autocad, which, and I hate to break it to you, will show exactly ZERO advantage for iris over the plain integrated graphics. It will be marginally better for 3D, but nowhere near the 960m in the xps 15, which also has a bigger display at the same price point. Or maybe now you are also going to tell me that a smaller screen is also critical to working with cad and making presentations?
Lenovo never puts iris graphics in anything. It drives me nuts. Been waiting for years for an ultrabook from them with iris graphics. Dell xps 13 finally has a 15w cpu with iris, and some Asus ultrabooks have 28w cpus with iris.
Try the Lenovo Ideapad 721s, has the iris graphics. Sadly the disabled the AHCI interface and require some whacky "RAID" mode which is really just saying "Hey, windows, use your software raid driver". The XPS 13 does have the iris as well, but sadly it's tied to the 3200x1800 touchscreen which is shiny and halves your battery life.
The only CPU with Iris GPU are HQ processors. HQ processor always perform better than U processor. For me, the two possible reasons why they don't use HQ processors are either they want a CPU that doesn't generate too much heat and/or force consumers to buy a laptop with its own discrete graphic card (and spend more money).
Nope. There are at least two or three 15w "U" processors with Iris 540 and one 28w U processor with iris 550. The 580 graphics are only reserved for HQ (35-45w) and S (65w) processors. I'd love just to have iris 540. The typical 520, 4400, or 4000 Intel graphics are hardly good enough for light gaming at 720 or heavier loads during hardware decode/encode or the 50/50 software hardware hybrid pipelines Intel has been using.
All of the GeForce with *40 and below are just a waste of good money now since the Iris HD 580 can stack up against even a 940M. I can hardly find a laptop in our country without any horrible AMD EXO Pros and NVIDIA's crappy entry-level cards. I just want less heat on the laptop I want to use.
I have a NUC with the Iris 540. It's pretty nice, handles the occasional light gaming, WebGL games, Minecraft, http://slither.io, and related much better than the non-iris graphics.
CAD. Not a huge niche, but Iris will outperform standard intel integrated GPU. Sometimes architects/engineers want to get work done on the road. The small footprint and lightweight of an ultrabook still has appeal.
Would love to get this, but all the Yogas i've had had tons of hardware bugs that were near impossible to fix. Just getting the touchpad right took a few days of fiddling. If only they can get things working.
Working in IT, I can back you up on one thing for sure. These machines are hell to work on. I've had to replace two fans in Thinkpad Yoga 12.5's and they are, in traditional Lenovo fashion, not detachable from the heat pipe (which is why they failed in the first place...the bearing is in direct-contact with the source) so the whole assembly needs to be needlessly replaced, instead of just popping the cover off with a latch and unscrewing two screws like you do in just about any modern HP Elitebook.
The real insult to the Thinkpad Yoga line is the dreaded history of the battery "non-recall" that caused the Yoga 14 machines to hard power off if bumped in the front right corner where the battery is connected. This connection is very sensitive and the only way we found to help prevent this anomaly was to insulate the battery connection internally on every model we came across.
Routine repair by Lenovo would result in a machine returned with the same exact problems. Dealing with Lenovo support is like dealing with a car dealership. They don't listen to your problem and the mechanic runs their standard tests, says its ok, and returns it to the customer. They don't seem to have a system in place to diagnose specific issues.
Sure it throttles, nobody would expect an Iris 540 to go full speed at 15W. But with double the EUs and half the frequency, you get the same performance but at lower power (lower frequency allows for lower voltage). Wider GPUs generally have higher performance per watt because of this, at the expense of higher cost.
It's not bad hardware, but it does seem overpriced. Given the GPU choice, the panel resolution is too high for the graphics card to effectively drive it. 1080p is a stretch for the 520 doing anything intensive. Lenovo should offer a lower resolution & cheaper option. I can't see the usefulness of the hinge design either. Desktop operating systems work a lot better with access to a keyboard and mouse (or touchpad) so owners are probably paying for a novelty feature they'll rarely put to use.
Playing around with video games wasn't the focal point of that comment. I'd hardly consider it relevant in the modern world when gaming is a better chore for purpose-built hardware (consoles) or mobile scenarios where a person is compelled to wait for something for a few minutes (tablets/phones).
That's why I said, "1080p is a stretch for the 520 doing anything intensive." That statement covers a wide range of other tasks that stress a graphics processor but have nothing to do with "playing" and everything to do with working.
Your personal expectations may not align with the expectations of other people. It's a computer and therefore will be subjected to a variety of different workloads. Just because it meets Intel's specs for battery life and thickness doesn't grant it immunity from user demands.
"Sorry end user, I'm an ultrabook so you simply can't perform tasks x, y, and z at all." -- Sounds a bit silly doesn't it? It sounds even more silly when a certain category of computing tasks was performed on say a old 386DX running at 25MHz packing 4MB of 30-pin RAM in 8 512KB sticks. But oh no, a Thinkpad X1 can't perform the modern version of that chore. Why? Because ultrabook!
What could you possibly want to work with such a device where the GPU and screen resolution matter?
Video re/encode: it's the video resolution, not the screen CAD, 3DS etc.: good luck with Intel OpenGL drivers to make it run at all. And if it does, a factor of 2 or 3 more performance from the Iris / Iris Pro won't change the experience much. GPU computing: Intel not supported, driver bugs etc. Some corner case benchmark: well, maybe it helps here
"What could you possibly want to work with such a device where the GPU and screen resolution matter?"
Quite a few computer users spend quite a bit of time fretting over GPUs and screen resolution. Evidence can be found by reading computer reviews, monitor reviews, GPU reviews, advertisements for computers, technical forums, or just by asking around. In modern times, we even spend significant time discussing the graphics processors and screen resolutions of our telephones. I can't think of many situations where those two metrics aren't relevant concerns.
Just because it's listed in specs and some people get crazy about it doesn't mean it really matters. when was the last time you badly wanted to run a game on your phone but your GPU was too slow?
it's important to note most modern Thinkpad's do NOT meet many MIL-STD-810G specifications, presumably including this Yoga since the previous Thinkpad Yoga's didn't meet any of them. The most durable model, the T series, meets only 8 of the specifications and most of them mildly in comparison to the competition. For example, the Thinkpad T460 is guaranteed to pass the mechanical shock test (no details given on what the testing parameters are) precisely 18 times, giving the perception they are cherry picking a number.
By comparison, the weakest modern Elitebook, the 8460\8470 (predates the 94xx/8xx/10xx series) bested the test 40 times at a distance of 3 feet and a repetition frequency of 30 seconds. It also did it while POWERED ON, and did not turn off. All these details are missing from the Lenovo data.
Additionally, certain tests, such as dust tests, are also cherry picked results by Lenovo, using a 6 hour cycle. By comparison, they use the MIL-STD guideline of a 24 hour continuous test, not four 6-hour tests.
Lastly, a number of tests are missing. Important ones, such as the impact pressure test (1500G) aka the "crush" test which is comically reproduced on YouTube by running over Elitebooks with a VEHICLE of some sort. But this could conveniently fall into Lenovo's category of high-vibration "multiple tests" again with no details or data provided.
Modern Lenovo Thinkpads are more in-line with HP Probooks and Dell XPS's. If you want most of the 810G compliancy the only economical devices are Elitebook 8xx/10xx series, various Dell Latitude 64xx\65xx series and the Precision 7000 series. It's important to note that Thinkpad's from over a decade ago were substantially more durable than the modern equivalent. At the same time, the competition, specifically HP, Dell and Panasonic, have all improved their durability every subsequent generation (although HP has been sacrificing durability for aesthetics in some recent models such as the 1020/1040.)
Comically, Lenovo sells various "shells" or cases for their Thinkpads to improve durability. My favorite one is the "healthcare" case. Look it up for a good laugh.
Also worth pointing out because a lot of people say the competition doesn't offer a "Yoga" competitor is yes, they do. The "convertible" form factor has existed for nearly 20 years. Windows 98 PC's came in convertible "tablet" options. The Elitebook 810G (11.6") is probably the most modern version of a convertible, offering all the flexibility of a Yoga with more durability and a lower price.
IMO, you should avoid language like the Fn and Ctrl keys are swapped from "default" arrangements as there is no default. Thinkpads have had Fn on the left corner for forever, and so do macs.
Also the placement of Print Screen where there should be the Menu key remains inexplicable.
Well looking at wiki, the layout doesn't have a Fn key placement specification, and so having a Fn key is in itself non-standard. There's no default choice here.
Thinkpads used to have an excuse that Fn + the top right key would activate the keyboard illumination, and so having Fn in the bottom left would facilitate finding that key combo in the dark.
Placing the Function key in the lower left corner and moving the control key that should be there to someplace else deviates from those standards. The language used in the article is indeed reasonable.
Well looking at wiki, the layout doesn't have a Fn key placement specification, and so having a Fn key is in itself non-standard. There's no default choice here.
Thinkpads used to have an excuse that Fn + the top right key would activate the keyboard illumination, and so having Fn in the bottom left would facilitate finding that key combo in the dark.
If it wasn't an oddball placement on a Windows laptop, Lenovo wouldn't offer a switch in the BIOS to reverse their function. Even other Lenovo laptops have Ctrl on the outside. I don't think it's a big deal, and you can switch it if you do, but it's worth pointing out that it's not the same as what someone coming from a non-ThinkPad would be used to.
It depends what you are doing I guess. It's not anywhere near as big of a difference as when we first got SSDs though. If you work with large files though, the read and write of something like a 950 Pro is kind of mind-boggling.
Yes. The difference is huge. I have the X1 Yoga with the 1TB PM961 NVMe. It is simply amazing how fast it is with the supercharged SDD. It is definitely worth the price difference over the SATA SSD.
I recently received a new laptop at work, replacing an old thinkpad. It's weight is similar but is half the thickness. Battery life increased from 95 minutes to 8 hours. I was a believer in battery life over thin, but it seems like they can finally match the two together, assuming you aren't trying to game on battery. This is a really cool device with a really high price. They will sell plenty, but not to me. If they had a version around $1,000 with a few less bells and whistles, it would be a game changer.
If it wasn't explicitly mentioned to be one, then chances are no, it's not. It's probably your run of the mill low-end webcam, with poor quality, and an integrated mic that's both too quiet and peaks too easily at the same time.
Not type-C port, "... but the X1 Yoga does have MicroSD support for additional storage"
Huh?? How does MicroSD make up for the lack of type-C ports? Do the reviewers have the delusion that people only want type-C to plug in portable storage?
Unsure if they're clueless, or shilling for lenovo....
The conjunction "but" implies the second statement (partially) excuses the first. My perception is that reviewers have learned to soften their criticisms of preferred vendors.
Thanks for the exhaustive display review. The lack of individual calibration is a big missed opportunity by Lenovo considering the development they did on the software side.
I also have to wonder what the native gamut of the panel looks like. In a perfect world where Windows is fully color-managed, one would be more concerned about the panel's native gamut covering the common targets (AdobeRGB, DCI-P3, etc.) than whether it has explicit modes for them. Unfortunately the years tick by and Windows still lacks OS-wide color management. Maybe the advent of OLED consumer monitors and the "HDR" push will finally force the issue.
The native primaries/gamut volume are important, and for HDR standards (which are aiming at a future with Rec2020 primaries that far exceed what we can achieve on consumer panels right now) it seems like more must be better... but for someone actually using a display, even with HDR, saturation accuracy should tell you everything for all practical purposes--that is, we are well beyond the problems of LCD panels that missed some SRGB gamut, so the real question is not "do I see all the green in fully-saturated SRGB images?" but "how accurate are the fully-saturated colors I see?" "99.8% of DCI-P3" looks impressive on a chart next to displays that don't have as much coverage, but if you want to use the display for real imaging, the important question is "how accurate is the display (at DCI-P3 or whatever your target is) before/after calibration?" 100% DCI-P3 is basically a worthless number (without accuracy numbers) unless the only colors you render are exactly DCI-P3 100% R/G/B.
Would really, really like some details on brightness levels, too. Assuming they/intel used a 10-bit display interface, HDR should be easily supported once application software catches up--but if the peak brightness is less than 500nits the payoff is diminished.
The battery life penalty for the OLED was shocking. I knew some could be expected, but dropping the battery life in half for very common tasks doesn't seem acceptable to me.
Agreed. However, I'd be curious about battery life numbers if you used a web browser with reversed colors - white text on a black background. Surely the OLED would improve in that test, but by how much?
How is the quality on 3.5mm audio? Loud enough? Is the connector fit tight? I'm assuming you would have made a note if it was bad, but at least a couple of words on it would be nice after 4 pages of discussion about the screen.
Interesting cross product implications from this review. Btw a very detailed review which is needed in this new type of product, kudos for not just glossing through the details but taking it head on. I note that power draw (with light screens which we knew about but good to note) being so much higher may well be a challenge to Apple going OLED. That may well cause them to implement a dark interface. I bet Windows 10 with it's continuous approach to a dark interface may be ready for the move to OLED in more device types - though even using it you still had a severe drop in battery life. If the gamut (which is going to be a big deal moving forward a couple years as 4k content all goes to wide gamut) had been wide on the LCD too, it would have been a fairer contrast. Wide gamut backlights on LCD's draw more power so then the comparison would have been more like to like in capability. Often overlooked is that Nvidia (and possibly others but NV is the ones who discussed it) has for years made 10 bit wide gamut color accessible through DirectX which has supported wide gamut where the receiver (panel) could understand it. Now that would then need another culling of any actual games that have a wide gamut setting (even if invisible to the user) that activates on a wide gamut monitor, but be aware that taking advantage of wide gamut may not be restricted to just Adobe type programs. In fact the Nvidia driver has a checkbox for outputting 10 bit by force. This isn't color managed, but it begins to bridge the gap in the triple match you need of software/interface/hardware that would need to be aligned for high gamut impact. If you'd tried a 4k HDR stream play on these devices I suspect you'd be pretty impressed at the differences. Awesome job detecting the blur. That relates the the draw and hold driving of current panels that creates blur from the driving circuit in spite of OLED pixel draws. Yes it needs both hardware and driver level software to fix. Black frame insertion is the way to trick the brain and represents one first approach to curing this artifact. But it will come as no shock to you that the driver circuits in small devices are weak vs desktop or TV, but also that any special way of doing things now new to OLED and different from LCD is the weakest area of all. Very few houses make these kinds of chips needed for TV, fewer that can then be integrated for desktop and for mobile of laptop size, almost none. So it's going to take time and expansion of the entire market to drive new solutions as available. Well done :)
Easier for Apple to do OLED on the smaller screen. I'm really glad I read this article. The ghosting would have driven me crazy. I've used the FHD version of this laptop and liked it a lot (fingerprint login in particular). Makes sense to me why Apple is supposedly only using OLED on the Macbook Pro for a smaller touchpad. They won't trade off battery life. With processor and SSD technology constant now, it seems like the display (on a laptop) is the next battle point. I'm still relatively happy on a 5.5 inch phone with a 1080 screen. It's worth the extra battery life to me. A killer, accurate 1080 screen is better (to me) than a Q or UHD screen that kills the battery.
I apologize for my 'all over the place' intermingling of phone and laptop discussion.
Let's talk about the longevity of this device. How hard is it to open the case and replace the parts? You didn't even bother to mention in the review that the battery is sealed in the case, which is very important when it dies after 2 years of use. Is it soldered or glued inside, or is it designed to be replaced? Is the keyboard a user replaceable part? Is the RAM soldered on the motherboard? Does the SSD use a standard connector? This is the essential information that determines whether a laptop lasts 5 years or 2 years and it is never included in any review.
I just bought a Thinkpad T450s and I replaced the screen and added more RAM. The lid of the T450s is too thin to protect the screen in a fall in my opinion. The case is extremely hard to open without a plastic spudger and I marred the plastic because I only had a flat-head screw driver. Reviews used to open up laptops, but now we seem to live in a world where every device is designed for planned obsolescence.
These are important questions because the fabrication of a new laptop emits between 200 and 400 kg of CO2-equivalent. Between 60%-80% of the total energy of a laptop lies in its initial fabrication and the majority of its greenhouse gas emissions and other types of pollution are also caused by the fabrication. The best way to reduce the environmental impact is to use a device as long as possible and avoid new fabrication. I would appreciate reviews which at least give me some idea of the longevity of a device.
Another think that I would appreciate is some mention of the environmental hazards of its contents. Does it use PVC plastic and phthalates? Does it contain brominated flame retardants in the casing and motherboard? Does the screen contain arsenic? Does the manufacturer have a take-back policy, so the device can be easily recycled? For me, these are far more important questions when I buy a laptop than whether this device scores 5% better on some CPU test. I will never notice the incremental difference in the speed of the CPU, but I care whether I am being exposed to chemicals that may effect my hormones and could give my child a birth defect. Why do review sites like Anandtech never talk about whether the power cord on a laptop contains phthalates or not?
I have the X1 Yoga. You can replace the SSD. Make sure when you order to get a NVMe when you order, as the SATA connector is different. They come with the Samsung PM961, so no real need to upgrae beyond that as the PM961 is outstanding. The RAM is in the motherboard. I would imagine the keyboard is replaceable, Lenovo's sevice pdf should be able to say that.
What functions don't work (don't work well) when you downgrade to win 7? I am looking to purchase a nice laptop with tablet functionality for when traveling. The issue i have is that i have several computer programs in my office that are not win10 certified and thus require that what i purchase still has the ability to load and run win 7 for a while longer.
I started with Windows 7, but then I switched to Windows 10. It's amazing, Windows 10 works great, I am really happy with it. The only thing I noticed is the touch interface might be a little smoother using Windows 10. Other than that, basically the same. Windows 10 has additional scaling options (higher), but I use 125% scale, so that works with either Windows 7 or 10
Stay away.. this thing is garbage. Less than 30 days old, fell 2 feet to ground getting out of car WHILE IN A BACKPACK and screen shattered and case split. I was shocked. Lenovo said too bad, so I guess I'm out $1300. Business class/mil spec my @$$. First and last Lenovo product I buy. Even cheap plastic tablets are more durable than this thing.
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mooninite - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
$1800 and no Iris graphics? I'll pass.ddriver - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Knock yourself out.JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
After you, ma'am.ddriver - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
U his boyfriend?The device scores in the top of its class as it is. Iris graphics won't make it more useful in its intended usage context, only more expensive. But I guess the important part here is that your boyfriend won't be buying a device cuz it didn't have a component that makes no sense having. Good to know.
JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Another *simply epic* post by ddriver!forgot2yield28 - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
You're joking, right? I run procurement for an architecture office. I wouldn't order this over an XPS 13 because you can get the XPS with Iris. They're not the workhorse of our office, but for getting some work done on an airplane and giving a presentation while manipulating CAD drawings, something with Iris or discrete graphics is critical. I can appreciate that the niche for professional ultrabook users who demand higher graphics performance is small, but to say that it wouldn't make the product more useful to professionals is simply shortsighted.close - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
ddriver is usually here for two purposes:-some pseudo-engineering rants that are laughable until you realize he might actually believe them (then it feels like you're laughing at an autistic kid).
-make some sort of homophobic remark, or any kind of insult really. The kind that suggests he was raised and educated by 4chan.
ddriver - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
I am glad you finally found a purpose in life. As pathetic as it may be, that's a huge step up for you LOL, your peak lifetime achievement really.ddriver - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
You are joking, right? This is a convertible device that can be used as a tablet and comes with a stylus while the xps 13 is an ultrabook without tablet mode or stylus support. Which explains why the xps in a matching configuration is 100$ cheaper.If you are a professional and need to work with CAD you don't get a "business class" generic ultrabook, you get a laptop with dedicated professional graphics, or the very least, something with a decent discrete graphics, like the xps 15
Iris critical for CAD - that's laughable to say the least. But wait, since you did say "drawings" I can only assume you mean 2D in autocad, which, and I hate to break it to you, will show exactly ZERO advantage for iris over the plain integrated graphics. It will be marginally better for 3D, but nowhere near the 960m in the xps 15, which also has a bigger display at the same price point. Or maybe now you are also going to tell me that a smaller screen is also critical to working with cad and making presentations?
LordOfTheBoired - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
*doesn't know CAD workload or terminology**is qualified to dictate CAD hardware demands*
yomamafor1 - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
I mean, it's not like Lenovo did make a P40 specifically for this purpose.....LordOfTheBoired - Saturday, October 1, 2016 - link
Touche. Just saying... ddriver isn't exactly what I'd call the most qualified person to make that call.Ej24 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Lenovo never puts iris graphics in anything. It drives me nuts. Been waiting for years for an ultrabook from them with iris graphics. Dell xps 13 finally has a 15w cpu with iris, and some Asus ultrabooks have 28w cpus with iris.Ro_Ja - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
They should've atleast put in a Skylake processor with HD 540 in it.arsjum - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
The second revision of Yoga 900 as well as IdeaPad 710s are both equipped with Skylake Iris graphics.spikebike - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Try the Lenovo Ideapad 721s, has the iris graphics. Sadly the disabled the AHCI interface and require some whacky "RAID" mode which is really just saying "Hey, windows, use your software raid driver". The XPS 13 does have the iris as well, but sadly it's tied to the 3200x1800 touchscreen which is shiny and halves your battery life.ajp_anton - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
I have the 1080p non-touch version of the XPS 13, with Iris 540 graphics.Pissedoffyouth - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
What possibly could you be doing on an ultrabook that you need Iris graphics? I'd rather have a CPU-heavy focused TDP that shitty CPU and a bit GPUCliff34 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
The only CPU with Iris GPU are HQ processors. HQ processor always perform better than U processor. For me, the two possible reasons why they don't use HQ processors are either they want a CPU that doesn't generate too much heat and/or force consumers to buy a laptop with its own discrete graphic card (and spend more money).arsjum - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Not true at all. U-series CPUs can come with HD 540 and HD 550 Iris graphics.Ej24 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Nope. There are at least two or three 15w "U" processors with Iris 540 and one 28w U processor with iris 550. The 580 graphics are only reserved for HQ (35-45w) and S (65w) processors. I'd love just to have iris 540. The typical 520, 4400, or 4000 Intel graphics are hardly good enough for light gaming at 720 or heavier loads during hardware decode/encode or the 50/50 software hardware hybrid pipelines Intel has been using.Ro_Ja - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
All of the GeForce with *40 and below are just a waste of good money now since the Iris HD 580 can stack up against even a 940M. I can hardly find a laptop in our country without any horrible AMD EXO Pros and NVIDIA's crappy entry-level cards. I just want less heat on the laptop I want to use.spikebike - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
I have a NUC with the Iris 540. It's pretty nice, handles the occasional light gaming, WebGL games, Minecraft, http://slither.io, and related much better than the non-iris graphics.forgot2yield28 - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
CAD. Not a huge niche, but Iris will outperform standard intel integrated GPU. Sometimes architects/engineers want to get work done on the road. The small footprint and lightweight of an ultrabook still has appeal.Byte - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Would love to get this, but all the Yogas i've had had tons of hardware bugs that were near impossible to fix. Just getting the touchpad right took a few days of fiddling. If only they can get things working.Samus - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Working in IT, I can back you up on one thing for sure. These machines are hell to work on. I've had to replace two fans in Thinkpad Yoga 12.5's and they are, in traditional Lenovo fashion, not detachable from the heat pipe (which is why they failed in the first place...the bearing is in direct-contact with the source) so the whole assembly needs to be needlessly replaced, instead of just popping the cover off with a latch and unscrewing two screws like you do in just about any modern HP Elitebook.The real insult to the Thinkpad Yoga line is the dreaded history of the battery "non-recall" that caused the Yoga 14 machines to hard power off if bumped in the front right corner where the battery is connected. This connection is very sensitive and the only way we found to help prevent this anomaly was to insulate the battery connection internally on every model we came across.
Routine repair by Lenovo would result in a machine returned with the same exact problems. Dealing with Lenovo support is like dealing with a car dealership. They don't listen to your problem and the mechanic runs their standard tests, says its ok, and returns it to the customer. They don't seem to have a system in place to diagnose specific issues.
Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It already throttles GT2. Going to GT3e would help because of eDRAM but likely throttle even more.ajp_anton - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Sure it throttles, nobody would expect an Iris 540 to go full speed at 15W. But with double the EUs and half the frequency, you get the same performance but at lower power (lower frequency allows for lower voltage). Wider GPUs generally have higher performance per watt because of this, at the expense of higher cost.Senti - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
I expect USB type-C in what you call "premium notebook" today. And better than Intel HD 520 graphics...It's sad to see that OLEDs are still "not quite ready". Battery life with web browsing was the last nail in the coffin.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It's not bad hardware, but it does seem overpriced. Given the GPU choice, the panel resolution is too high for the graphics card to effectively drive it. 1080p is a stretch for the 520 doing anything intensive. Lenovo should offer a lower resolution & cheaper option. I can't see the usefulness of the hinge design either. Desktop operating systems work a lot better with access to a keyboard and mouse (or touchpad) so owners are probably paying for a novelty feature they'll rarely put to use.lefenzy - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
The 520 is fine for anything outside of gaming. And light gaming like CS:GO is perfectly ok to. You don't have to play at native resolution.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Playing around with video games wasn't the focal point of that comment. I'd hardly consider it relevant in the modern world when gaming is a better chore for purpose-built hardware (consoles) or mobile scenarios where a person is compelled to wait for something for a few minutes (tablets/phones).That's why I said, "1080p is a stretch for the 520 doing anything intensive." That statement covers a wide range of other tasks that stress a graphics processor but have nothing to do with "playing" and everything to do with working.
lefenzy - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Majority of users just do internet, office, and media work, with primary stress on the CPU. I wouldn't expect anything more from an ultrabook.BrokenCrayons - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Your personal expectations may not align with the expectations of other people. It's a computer and therefore will be subjected to a variety of different workloads. Just because it meets Intel's specs for battery life and thickness doesn't grant it immunity from user demands."Sorry end user, I'm an ultrabook so you simply can't perform tasks x, y, and z at all." -- Sounds a bit silly doesn't it? It sounds even more silly when a certain category of computing tasks was performed on say a old 386DX running at 25MHz packing 4MB of 30-pin RAM in 8 512KB sticks. But oh no, a Thinkpad X1 can't perform the modern version of that chore. Why? Because ultrabook!
lefenzy - Monday, October 3, 2016 - link
you're going off the railsMrSpadge - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
What could you possibly want to work with such a device where the GPU and screen resolution matter?Video re/encode: it's the video resolution, not the screen
CAD, 3DS etc.: good luck with Intel OpenGL drivers to make it run at all. And if it does, a factor of 2 or 3 more performance from the Iris / Iris Pro won't change the experience much.
GPU computing: Intel not supported, driver bugs etc.
Some corner case benchmark: well, maybe it helps here
BrokenCrayons - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
"What could you possibly want to work with such a device where the GPU and screen resolution matter?"Quite a few computer users spend quite a bit of time fretting over GPUs and screen resolution. Evidence can be found by reading computer reviews, monitor reviews, GPU reviews, advertisements for computers, technical forums, or just by asking around. In modern times, we even spend significant time discussing the graphics processors and screen resolutions of our telephones. I can't think of many situations where those two metrics aren't relevant concerns.
MrSpadge - Friday, October 7, 2016 - link
Just because it's listed in specs and some people get crazy about it doesn't mean it really matters. when was the last time you badly wanted to run a game on your phone but your GPU was too slow?Samus - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
it's important to note most modern Thinkpad's do NOT meet many MIL-STD-810G specifications, presumably including this Yoga since the previous Thinkpad Yoga's didn't meet any of them. The most durable model, the T series, meets only 8 of the specifications and most of them mildly in comparison to the competition. For example, the Thinkpad T460 is guaranteed to pass the mechanical shock test (no details given on what the testing parameters are) precisely 18 times, giving the perception they are cherry picking a number.By comparison, the weakest modern Elitebook, the 8460\8470 (predates the 94xx/8xx/10xx series) bested the test 40 times at a distance of 3 feet and a repetition frequency of 30 seconds. It also did it while POWERED ON, and did not turn off. All these details are missing from the Lenovo data.
Additionally, certain tests, such as dust tests, are also cherry picked results by Lenovo, using a 6 hour cycle. By comparison, they use the MIL-STD guideline of a 24 hour continuous test, not four 6-hour tests.
Lastly, a number of tests are missing. Important ones, such as the impact pressure test (1500G) aka the "crush" test which is comically reproduced on YouTube by running over Elitebooks with a VEHICLE of some sort. But this could conveniently fall into Lenovo's category of high-vibration "multiple tests" again with no details or data provided.
Modern Lenovo Thinkpads are more in-line with HP Probooks and Dell XPS's. If you want most of the 810G compliancy the only economical devices are Elitebook 8xx/10xx series, various Dell Latitude 64xx\65xx series and the Precision 7000 series. It's important to note that Thinkpad's from over a decade ago were substantially more durable than the modern equivalent. At the same time, the competition, specifically HP, Dell and Panasonic, have all improved their durability every subsequent generation (although HP has been sacrificing durability for aesthetics in some recent models such as the 1020/1040.)
Comically, Lenovo sells various "shells" or cases for their Thinkpads to improve durability. My favorite one is the "healthcare" case. Look it up for a good laugh.
Also worth pointing out because a lot of people say the competition doesn't offer a "Yoga" competitor is yes, they do. The "convertible" form factor has existed for nearly 20 years. Windows 98 PC's came in convertible "tablet" options. The Elitebook 810G (11.6") is probably the most modern version of a convertible, offering all the flexibility of a Yoga with more durability and a lower price.
lefenzy - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
IMO, you should avoid language like the Fn and Ctrl keys are swapped from "default" arrangements as there is no default. Thinkpads have had Fn on the left corner for forever, and so do macs.Also the placement of Print Screen where there should be the Menu key remains inexplicable.
Inteli - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Control does have a default/standard location, though. Both the ANSI and ISO standard keyboard layouts put left control in the bottom left corner.lefenzy - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Well looking at wiki, the layout doesn't have a Fn key placement specification, and so having a Fn key is in itself non-standard. There's no default choice here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fn_key#Fn_and_Contro...
Thinkpads used to have an excuse that Fn + the top right key would activate the keyboard illumination, and so having Fn in the bottom left would facilitate finding that key combo in the dark.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
The ANSI and ISO standard layouts are shown in images here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ANSI_Keyboard_L...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingd...
You can read the full article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout
Placing the Function key in the lower left corner and moving the control key that should be there to someplace else deviates from those standards. The language used in the article is indeed reasonable.
lefenzy - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Well looking at wiki, the layout doesn't have a Fn key placement specification, and so having a Fn key is in itself non-standard. There's no default choice here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fn_key#Fn_and_Contro...
Thinkpads used to have an excuse that Fn + the top right key would activate the keyboard illumination, and so having Fn in the bottom left would facilitate finding that key combo in the dark.
Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
If it wasn't an oddball placement on a Windows laptop, Lenovo wouldn't offer a switch in the BIOS to reverse their function. Even other Lenovo laptops have Ctrl on the outside. I don't think it's a big deal, and you can switch it if you do, but it's worth pointing out that it's not the same as what someone coming from a non-ThinkPad would be used to.Badelhas - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Is there a real world difference between using the SSD or NVMe storage option?Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It depends what you are doing I guess. It's not anywhere near as big of a difference as when we first got SSDs though. If you work with large files though, the read and write of something like a 950 Pro is kind of mind-boggling.cptcolo - Saturday, November 12, 2016 - link
Yes. The difference is huge. I have the X1 Yoga with the 1TB PM961 NVMe. It is simply amazing how fast it is with the supercharged SDD. It is definitely worth the price difference over the SATA SSD.fanofanand - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
I recently received a new laptop at work, replacing an old thinkpad. It's weight is similar but is half the thickness. Battery life increased from 95 minutes to 8 hours. I was a believer in battery life over thin, but it seems like they can finally match the two together, assuming you aren't trying to game on battery. This is a really cool device with a really high price. They will sell plenty, but not to me. If they had a version around $1,000 with a few less bells and whistles, it would be a game changer.snakyjake - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Is the camera an Intel RealSense camera for biometric facial recognition?JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
If it wasn't explicitly mentioned to be one, then chances are no, it's not. It's probably your run of the mill low-end webcam, with poor quality, and an integrated mic that's both too quiet and peaks too easily at the same time.Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
No it has a fingerprint reader instead for Windows Hello.grant3 - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Not type-C port, "... but the X1 Yoga does have MicroSD support for additional storage"Huh?? How does MicroSD make up for the lack of type-C ports?
Do the reviewers have the delusion that people only want type-C to plug in portable storage?
Unsure if they're clueless, or shilling for lenovo....
Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It doesn't make up for anything. Just pointing out what ports are there. You're reading a bit much into it.grant3 - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
The conjunction "but" implies the second statement (partially) excuses the first. My perception is that reviewers have learned to soften their criticisms of preferred vendors.SeannyB - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Thanks for the exhaustive display review. The lack of individual calibration is a big missed opportunity by Lenovo considering the development they did on the software side.I also have to wonder what the native gamut of the panel looks like. In a perfect world where Windows is fully color-managed, one would be more concerned about the panel's native gamut covering the common targets (AdobeRGB, DCI-P3, etc.) than whether it has explicit modes for them. Unfortunately the years tick by and Windows still lacks OS-wide color management. Maybe the advent of OLED consumer monitors and the "HDR" push will finally force the issue.
BiggerInside - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
The native primaries/gamut volume are important, and for HDR standards (which are aiming at a future with Rec2020 primaries that far exceed what we can achieve on consumer panels right now) it seems like more must be better... but for someone actually using a display, even with HDR, saturation accuracy should tell you everything for all practical purposes--that is, we are well beyond the problems of LCD panels that missed some SRGB gamut, so the real question is not "do I see all the green in fully-saturated SRGB images?" but "how accurate are the fully-saturated colors I see?""99.8% of DCI-P3" looks impressive on a chart next to displays that don't have as much coverage, but if you want to use the display for real imaging, the important question is "how accurate is the display (at DCI-P3 or whatever your target is) before/after calibration?" 100% DCI-P3 is basically a worthless number (without accuracy numbers) unless the only colors you render are exactly DCI-P3 100% R/G/B.
BiggerInside - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Would really, really like some details on brightness levels, too. Assuming they/intel used a 10-bit display interface, HDR should be easily supported once application software catches up--but if the peak brightness is less than 500nits the payoff is diminished.Brandon Chester - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It's standard 8bit per channel. Assuming 10bit color on an Intel laptop is generally going to be a losing bet :)Arbie - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Please state in your reviews whether the micro/SD sticks out the side of the laptop, because it's pretty much useless if so. Thanks.Brett Howse - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
It's microSD so no.ScytheNoire - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Got one of these at work and it's really nice, except the trackpad is horrible. It's among the worst trackpads I've ever used.Lolimaster - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Question, why is the screen so shit compared to the Galaxy Tab S2 which also features RGB AMOLED.Lolimaster - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
To release such crap using OLED, better go a high quality VA panel.zeeBomb - Thursday, September 29, 2016 - link
Brett still alive???Brett Howse - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Still here yes!Calista - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
The battery life penalty for the OLED was shocking. I knew some could be expected, but dropping the battery life in half for very common tasks doesn't seem acceptable to me.The Von Matrices - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Agreed. However, I'd be curious about battery life numbers if you used a web browser with reversed colors - white text on a black background. Surely the OLED would improve in that test, but by how much?overzealot - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
How is the quality on 3.5mm audio? Loud enough?Is the connector fit tight?
I'm assuming you would have made a note if it was bad, but at least a couple of words on it would be nice after 4 pages of discussion about the screen.
Brett Howse - Saturday, October 1, 2016 - link
It's fine. I'll try and make note of adding a line about this in the future.overzealot - Wednesday, October 5, 2016 - link
Awesome, thanks Brett!ikjadoon - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
I think there's a little error on battery capacity. IIRC, the OLED version actually uses a 56Wh battery, while the LCD uses 52Wh.http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Yo...
So, then, the battery life for the OLED is actually even worse. :(
Lolimaster - Friday, September 30, 2016 - link
Not even my 7 years old Cowon S9 pmp shows that type of ghosting on his amoled display (pretty much zero ghosting).FXi - Saturday, October 1, 2016 - link
Interesting cross product implications from this review. Btw a very detailed review which is needed in this new type of product, kudos for not just glossing through the details but taking it head on.I note that power draw (with light screens which we knew about but good to note) being so much higher may well be a challenge to Apple going OLED. That may well cause them to implement a dark interface.
I bet Windows 10 with it's continuous approach to a dark interface may be ready for the move to OLED in more device types - though even using it you still had a severe drop in battery life.
If the gamut (which is going to be a big deal moving forward a couple years as 4k content all goes to wide gamut) had been wide on the LCD too, it would have been a fairer contrast. Wide gamut backlights on LCD's draw more power so then the comparison would have been more like to like in capability.
Often overlooked is that Nvidia (and possibly others but NV is the ones who discussed it) has for years made 10 bit wide gamut color accessible through DirectX which has supported wide gamut where the receiver (panel) could understand it. Now that would then need another culling of any actual games that have a wide gamut setting (even if invisible to the user) that activates on a wide gamut monitor, but be aware that taking advantage of wide gamut may not be restricted to just Adobe type programs. In fact the Nvidia driver has a checkbox for outputting 10 bit by force. This isn't color managed, but it begins to bridge the gap in the triple match you need of software/interface/hardware that would need to be aligned for high gamut impact.
If you'd tried a 4k HDR stream play on these devices I suspect you'd be pretty impressed at the differences.
Awesome job detecting the blur. That relates the the draw and hold driving of current panels that creates blur from the driving circuit in spite of OLED pixel draws. Yes it needs both hardware and driver level software to fix. Black frame insertion is the way to trick the brain and represents one first approach to curing this artifact. But it will come as no shock to you that the driver circuits in small devices are weak vs desktop or TV, but also that any special way of doing things now new to OLED and different from LCD is the weakest area of all. Very few houses make these kinds of chips needed for TV, fewer that can then be integrated for desktop and for mobile of laptop size, almost none. So it's going to take time and expansion of the entire market to drive new solutions as available.
Well done :)
cditty - Tuesday, October 4, 2016 - link
Easier for Apple to do OLED on the smaller screen. I'm really glad I read this article. The ghosting would have driven me crazy. I've used the FHD version of this laptop and liked it a lot (fingerprint login in particular). Makes sense to me why Apple is supposedly only using OLED on the Macbook Pro for a smaller touchpad. They won't trade off battery life. With processor and SSD technology constant now, it seems like the display (on a laptop) is the next battle point. I'm still relatively happy on a 5.5 inch phone with a 1080 screen. It's worth the extra battery life to me. A killer, accurate 1080 screen is better (to me) than a Q or UHD screen that kills the battery.I apologize for my 'all over the place' intermingling of phone and laptop discussion.
Erin Adreno - Sunday, October 2, 2016 - link
The nvme ssd speed doesn't seem right. That speed should come from a 950 pro instead of pm951.cptcolo - Saturday, November 12, 2016 - link
I am pretty sure it is a PM961 not a PM951cptcolo - Saturday, November 12, 2016 - link
I took apart mine, it indeed has a Samsung PM961 1TB SSD. I ordered mine back in June 2016.Ro_Ja - Monday, October 3, 2016 - link
It's also a good thing this laptop has the RAM in dual-channel mode. It greatly affects performance for onboard GPUs.amosbatto - Wednesday, October 5, 2016 - link
Let's talk about the longevity of this device. How hard is it to open the case and replace the parts? You didn't even bother to mention in the review that the battery is sealed in the case, which is very important when it dies after 2 years of use. Is it soldered or glued inside, or is it designed to be replaced? Is the keyboard a user replaceable part? Is the RAM soldered on the motherboard? Does the SSD use a standard connector? This is the essential information that determines whether a laptop lasts 5 years or 2 years and it is never included in any review.I just bought a Thinkpad T450s and I replaced the screen and added more RAM. The lid of the T450s is too thin to protect the screen in a fall in my opinion. The case is extremely hard to open without a plastic spudger and I marred the plastic because I only had a flat-head screw driver. Reviews used to open up laptops, but now we seem to live in a world where every device is designed for planned obsolescence.
These are important questions because the fabrication of a new laptop emits between 200 and 400 kg of CO2-equivalent. Between 60%-80% of the total energy of a laptop lies in its initial fabrication and the majority of its greenhouse gas emissions and other types of pollution are also caused by the fabrication. The best way to reduce the environmental impact is to use a device as long as possible and avoid new fabrication. I would appreciate reviews which at least give me some idea of the longevity of a device.
Another think that I would appreciate is some mention of the environmental hazards of its contents. Does it use PVC plastic and phthalates? Does it contain brominated flame retardants in the casing and motherboard? Does the screen contain arsenic? Does the manufacturer have a take-back policy, so the device can be easily recycled? For me, these are far more important questions when I buy a laptop than whether this device scores 5% better on some CPU test. I will never notice the incremental difference in the speed of the CPU, but I care whether I am being exposed to chemicals that may effect my hormones and could give my child a birth defect. Why do review sites like Anandtech never talk about whether the power cord on a laptop contains phthalates or not?
cptcolo - Saturday, November 12, 2016 - link
I have the X1 Yoga. You can replace the SSD. Make sure when you order to get a NVMe when you order, as the SATA connector is different. They come with the Samsung PM961, so no real need to upgrae beyond that as the PM961 is outstanding. The RAM is in the motherboard. I would imagine the keyboard is replaceable, Lenovo's sevice pdf should be able to say that.levin70 - Monday, October 10, 2016 - link
What functions don't work (don't work well) when you downgrade to win 7? I am looking to purchase a nice laptop with tablet functionality for when traveling. The issue i have is that i have several computer programs in my office that are not win10 certified and thus require that what i purchase still has the ability to load and run win 7 for a while longer.Any assistance appreciated
cptcolo - Saturday, November 12, 2016 - link
I started with Windows 7, but then I switched to Windows 10. It's amazing, Windows 10 works great, I am really happy with it. The only thing I noticed is the touch interface might be a little smoother using Windows 10. Other than that, basically the same. Windows 10 has additional scaling options (higher), but I use 125% scale, so that works with either Windows 7 or 10networld101 - Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - link
Stay away.. this thing is garbage. Less than 30 days old, fell 2 feet to ground getting out of car WHILE IN A BACKPACK and screen shattered and case split. I was shocked. Lenovo said too bad, so I guess I'm out $1300. Business class/mil spec my @$$. First and last Lenovo product I buy. Even cheap plastic tablets are more durable than this thing.