"LG is quite possibly the only OEM that has ever properly integrated a removable battery and an aluminum back cover at this point"
Really?
HTC had a whole bunch of phones around 2011 with aluminium backs and removable batteries. The Sensation (4G), Evo Design 4g, and Desire S, to name a few. Sure, they don't live up to todays standards of flagship build quality, and weren't unibody designs (is that still a thing?) but they weren't far behind, and were leaps and bounds ahead of their time.
Indeed, I was thinking of the Desire S when I read that comment and I really don't get why that bottom opening design isn't viable today. Mine ended up embedded in a wall through no fault of its own but it wasn't a bad phone.
Speaking of HTC... That HTC 10 review... Any news?
Yep, HTC really nailed the design of the Desire S in that regard. It was even relatively easy to repair. I guess one reason behind not going that route is the popularity of bottom-mounted speakers and connectors - if the bottom has the charging port, speaker and headphone jack, making a battery access hatch becomes difficult (or you end up with clunky solutions like the G5). From what I can remember, the Desire S had no bottom ports at all. Still, "stick" type batteries that only cover about half the width of the phone have become pretty common, which opens the door for battery removal at the top next to the camera, for example (or on the bottom given enough space and a bit of clever engineering).
You're quite right regarding the speakers and ports - I should have just looked at the damned M9 I'm typing on to figure that one out... Crikey I'm an idiot sometimes.
Not at all. From software, to performance, to battery life, to software updates, to support, to interface... LG is atleast 2 generations behind Apple and 1 behind samsung.
I'll put my V10 up against an iPhone or Galaxy phone any day. Each has their strengths but my wife always borrows my phone to take pictures with since she likes them way better than her iPhone 6S pics. Her phone also tends to die in the evening while mine goes strong all the way to bed time.
Exactly! I've had an AT&T V-10 since about a month after launch, and it's hands down better than my iPhone experiences in nearly every conceivable way: replaceable batteries, SD card, awesome audio quality, won't shatter when merely breathing in it, and NO FREAKIN' ITUNES!! I'll never go back to Apple again!
Ah yes, MacBAir strikes again. Pretty sure I saw a couple of self proclaimed "non-biased" posts from this guy on ArsTechnica. Glad to see he is still living up to his name.
Innovative how? If it has a removable back, it isnt "Unibody". Metal backs have been around since Nokia E72 days. LG has terrible problems with quality control - eg the boot loop fiasco, the G%build and boot loops! And most of these Android OEM's cannot code for the life of them.
A removable battery?!? THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS IS HERE!
At least LG hasnt lost their mind. Hopefully this makes it's way into the G6. Now the other question, has LG solved their horrible QC issues from the G4 era? I've encountered many former LG users who complained that the G3/4/5 and the v10 had bootloop issues and generally seemed to be soldered together with hope and duck tape.
I can't speak for everyone but my V10 is rocking without ever having a case or screen protector and has survived many drops. Still boots greats and runs all day no problem. Still takes the best photos of all my friends too
"but manual video settings for bitrate, audio recording, and a number of image controls is really great to see"
I'd rather set the resolution and a quality slider or setting. I wouldn't really care about the bitrate, but maybe about setting "fair quality" or "high quality". And then let the system use what ever bitrate is necessary to avoid artefacts, because I don't know which value this is going to be in which scene (action vs. still etc.).
That's the same thing, only bitrate actually tells you something meaningful, rather than arbitrarily defined and vaguely worded settings. Also, it allows for meaningful comparisons between phones/cameras, which a "good - crappy" slider does not. And I'd wager even the most tech-illiterate user understands that a higher quality setting is better, whether it's a higher number or a better superlative. If they ever come close to those settings at all, of course. Manual video modes are not meant for people who don't want manual control.
For probably better than 99% of users a bitrate number is completely meaningless. It might be something interesting for the most advanced users to fiddle with on an extra options screen; but for everyone else a 3(?) position slider: "Smallest Size (lower quality)", "Normal", "Highest Quality (larger files)" with the middle option picked by default would be more useful.
Lastly, raw bitrate itself is not enough to do meaningful comparisons between devices. In addition to variable quality of the sensor and optics, different encoding format will give significantly better/worse quality for a given bitrate and even within a single encoding format (eg h.264, HEVC, or VP9) different encoders can perform significantly better or worse with equivalent high level settings.
Of course bitrate isn't directly comparable - heck, even the quality of the ISP affects that (given that the sensor, codec and bitrate are the same). But it's a heck of a lot more comparable than "high-medium-low," especially as "high" (or "ultra" or whatever marketing bs they want to use) simply is whatever the maximum bitrate actually is. So "high" on one phone might be 20Mbps HEVC, while on another it's 10Mbps H.264.
And as I said, the vast majority of users never go within ten feet of any camera quality setting, let alone video compression quality. These settings are meant for people who actually care somewhat about what they're doing, at least to the degree that they can figure out that a higher number is better. It really doesn't require you to be Einstein.
For other users, the camera maker simply needs to make sure the default quality setting is OK. No more, no less. But manual control with actual usable information attatched to it is never a bad thing.
I'm really disappointed in the LG G5 and this one. I think the best and flawless design that LG was created was the 4. I love the fact that there's no buttons to get in the way of lowering your volume by accident, the only phone that has it's own selfie camera and the screen being completely touch. I don't know why others haven't gotten on board with a no button design for phones. Having the volume and power button on the back of the phone was genius. I ended important calls, locked screens by mistake and had buttons even stop manually working because of this. LG G5 has a volume button on the side of the phone and this one has a few too.
Are there any mainstream phones sold to the western market that support dual/quad sims? I thought that was a feature limited to low end phones sold in the developing world and only imported to the west in small quantities by gray market sellers.
Other than saving money in countries where having sims for multiple carriers to get cheaper voice/text rates for in network communications, what uses are there for a dual sim phone anyway?
There are lots. My Blu Pure XL was every bit as fast as Snapdragon 810 powered flagships at the time, and features dual sim. You can currently get a number of phones on Amazon that are flagship tier and feature dual sim capability.
That said, I have only used my dual sim once, it's just not useful here in Texas.
This is going to be what the G5 should have been. A little in the bigger side, yes, but this is what an audiophile or a photographer needs in their life.
The small 3200mah is the deal killer for this phone - otherwise a very good phone. They can still put some lipstick on this pig if they include a spare battery and a charger that can simultaneously charge the phone and the spare battery. If they include a wireless charging backplate they would probably sweeten it a bit.
3200mAh is small in terms of this being a big (!) 5,7" phone in 2016. My 5,2" Sony Z2 from 2014 has a 3200mAh battery, and is waterproof to boot. The V20 is noticeably taller and wider than the Note 7, yet the Note 7's battery is 300mAh larger. That the V20 is .3mm thinner doesn't really help.
I'll cheer the day we get a phone that is slightly thicker, slightly bigger, but is ruggedized to resist most damage from drops. Waterproof. And has a 5,000+ mah battery. And then has all the rest of the top-tier features of the high-end phones.
I don't need an ultra tiny phone... we basically all put gigantic cases on our phones anyhow just to protect them.... so why not just build a phone that has the case built into it and uses that extra size to dramatically boost the battery/camera as both are limited by size more than about anything else?
It isn't a bad phone but with the small battery they'll have trouble getting a lot of excitement. If they had a 4000mah phone they'd have a winner. They can still salvage something from the wreckage if they supply a spare battery and a charger that can charge the spare outside the phone and throw in a wireless charging backplate.
Right. This is the weakness of the Nexus 5 where it could use an AMOLED screen and significantly better battery life where we can just leave the LTE, WiFi, and GPS on and play 3D games during the commutes and still have juice left when we get home.
N5 battery life wouldn't be much different with OLED, which only really saves battery life when displaying pure black. Since the 5.0 update most of the Android UI is solid white.
"The final thing worth mentioning given that I’ve had some time with the preproduction unit at home is that LG is now using SK Hynix’s UFS 2.1 solution, which is supposed to allow for better security between SoC and UFS device."
The real attraction of <a href="https://youmobile.com.pk/phone/792/lg-g6-price-in-... the LG V10 is the camera </a> that resides above the button cluster, so let’s get right to it. It’s amazing. I’m taking more photos and being more creative than I have with any other phone. Where other smartphones will render an indistinct blob of bright red, the V10 captures a beautiful, finely detailed flower in bloom.
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Valantar - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
"LG is quite possibly the only OEM that has ever properly integrated a removable battery and an aluminum back cover at this point"Really?
HTC had a whole bunch of phones around 2011 with aluminium backs and removable batteries. The Sensation (4G), Evo Design 4g, and Desire S, to name a few. Sure, they don't live up to todays standards of flagship build quality, and weren't unibody designs (is that still a thing?) but they weren't far behind, and were leaps and bounds ahead of their time.
philehidiot - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Indeed, I was thinking of the Desire S when I read that comment and I really don't get why that bottom opening design isn't viable today. Mine ended up embedded in a wall through no fault of its own but it wasn't a bad phone.Speaking of HTC... That HTC 10 review... Any news?
Valantar - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Yep, HTC really nailed the design of the Desire S in that regard. It was even relatively easy to repair. I guess one reason behind not going that route is the popularity of bottom-mounted speakers and connectors - if the bottom has the charging port, speaker and headphone jack, making a battery access hatch becomes difficult (or you end up with clunky solutions like the G5). From what I can remember, the Desire S had no bottom ports at all. Still, "stick" type batteries that only cover about half the width of the phone have become pretty common, which opens the door for battery removal at the top next to the camera, for example (or on the bottom given enough space and a bit of clever engineering).philehidiot - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
You're quite right regarding the speakers and ports - I should have just looked at the damned M9 I'm typing on to figure that one out... Crikey I'm an idiot sometimes.JoshHo - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Soon. Hopefully.jtang97 - Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - link
I surely hope that you'll release the HTC 10 review before the iPhones and the LG V20......ACM.1899 - Monday, September 19, 2016 - link
sooner HopefullyACM.1899 - Monday, September 19, 2016 - link
yep, HTC 10 review.plz
JoshHo - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
The emphasis is on properly. Those designs really aged poorly and were not space-efficient.erple2 - Friday, September 9, 2016 - link
I always thought the Samsung Galaxy S Captivate was really good at this.exadeci - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
All those devices you list had either finger breaking or complex battery removal/change.On the V20 you press a button and you are done.
Aritra Ghatak - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Does anybody feel that LG is overall more innovative than both Samsung and Apple but can't transform it to sales?RaichuPls - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Same thing happened to HTC a few years back, most likely due to poor marketingMeteor2 - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
This. HTC barely feature on sales charts yet make great phones. This looks very solid too.Josh, thank you for the good hands-on.
mindurbusiness - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I totally do.MacBAir - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Not at all. From software, to performance, to battery life, to software updates, to support, to interface... LG is atleast 2 generations behind Apple and 1 behind samsung.Ikefu - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I'll put my V10 up against an iPhone or Galaxy phone any day. Each has their strengths but my wife always borrows my phone to take pictures with since she likes them way better than her iPhone 6S pics. Her phone also tends to die in the evening while mine goes strong all the way to bed time.Heathaze - Friday, September 9, 2016 - link
Exactly! I've had an AT&T V-10 since about a month after launch, and it's hands down better than my iPhone experiences in nearly every conceivable way: replaceable batteries, SD card, awesome audio quality, won't shatter when merely breathing in it, and NO FREAKIN' ITUNES!! I'll never go back to Apple again!marcolorenzo - Friday, September 16, 2016 - link
Ah yes, MacBAir strikes again. Pretty sure I saw a couple of self proclaimed "non-biased" posts from this guy on ArsTechnica. Glad to see he is still living up to his name.Lavkesh - Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - link
Innovative how? If it has a removable back, it isnt "Unibody". Metal backs have been around since Nokia E72 days. LG has terrible problems with quality control - eg the boot loop fiasco, the G%build and boot loops! And most of these Android OEM's cannot code for the life of them.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
A removable battery?!? THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS IS HERE!At least LG hasnt lost their mind. Hopefully this makes it's way into the G6. Now the other question, has LG solved their horrible QC issues from the G4 era? I've encountered many former LG users who complained that the G3/4/5 and the v10 had bootloop issues and generally seemed to be soldered together with hope and duck tape.
philehidiot - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Jesus is here and he brings premium grade solder.Ikefu - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I can't speak for everyone but my V10 is rocking without ever having a case or screen protector and has survived many drops. Still boots greats and runs all day no problem. Still takes the best photos of all my friends tooMrSpadge - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
"but manual video settings for bitrate, audio recording, and a number of image controls is really great to see"I'd rather set the resolution and a quality slider or setting. I wouldn't really care about the bitrate, but maybe about setting "fair quality" or "high quality". And then let the system use what ever bitrate is necessary to avoid artefacts, because I don't know which value this is going to be in which scene (action vs. still etc.).
Valantar - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
That's the same thing, only bitrate actually tells you something meaningful, rather than arbitrarily defined and vaguely worded settings. Also, it allows for meaningful comparisons between phones/cameras, which a "good - crappy" slider does not. And I'd wager even the most tech-illiterate user understands that a higher quality setting is better, whether it's a higher number or a better superlative. If they ever come close to those settings at all, of course. Manual video modes are not meant for people who don't want manual control.DanNeely - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
For probably better than 99% of users a bitrate number is completely meaningless. It might be something interesting for the most advanced users to fiddle with on an extra options screen; but for everyone else a 3(?) position slider: "Smallest Size (lower quality)", "Normal", "Highest Quality (larger files)" with the middle option picked by default would be more useful.Lastly, raw bitrate itself is not enough to do meaningful comparisons between devices. In addition to variable quality of the sensor and optics, different encoding format will give significantly better/worse quality for a given bitrate and even within a single encoding format (eg h.264, HEVC, or VP9) different encoders can perform significantly better or worse with equivalent high level settings.
Meteor2 - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I really think this is aimed at 'creatives'. Yep, that's a horrible term, but Instagram et al. are giving people a platform which they're using.Valantar - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Of course bitrate isn't directly comparable - heck, even the quality of the ISP affects that (given that the sensor, codec and bitrate are the same). But it's a heck of a lot more comparable than "high-medium-low," especially as "high" (or "ultra" or whatever marketing bs they want to use) simply is whatever the maximum bitrate actually is. So "high" on one phone might be 20Mbps HEVC, while on another it's 10Mbps H.264.And as I said, the vast majority of users never go within ten feet of any camera quality setting, let alone video compression quality. These settings are meant for people who actually care somewhat about what they're doing, at least to the degree that they can figure out that a higher number is better. It really doesn't require you to be Einstein.
For other users, the camera maker simply needs to make sure the default quality setting is OK. No more, no less. But manual control with actual usable information attatched to it is never a bad thing.
mindurbusiness - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I'm really disappointed in the LG G5 and this one. I think the best and flawless design that LG was created was the 4. I love the fact that there's no buttons to get in the way of lowering your volume by accident, the only phone that has it's own selfie camera and the screen being completely touch. I don't know why others haven't gotten on board with a no button design for phones. Having the volume and power button on the back of the phone was genius. I ended important calls, locked screens by mistake and had buttons even stop manually working because of this. LG G5 has a volume button on the side of the phone and this one has a few too.Notmyusualid - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Hmm, single-sim phones....NEVER again.
DanNeely - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Are there any mainstream phones sold to the western market that support dual/quad sims? I thought that was a feature limited to low end phones sold in the developing world and only imported to the west in small quantities by gray market sellers.Other than saving money in countries where having sims for multiple carriers to get cheaper voice/text rates for in network communications, what uses are there for a dual sim phone anyway?
darth415 - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
There are lots. My Blu Pure XL was every bit as fast as Snapdragon 810 powered flagships at the time, and features dual sim. You can currently get a number of phones on Amazon that are flagship tier and feature dual sim capability.That said, I have only used my dual sim once, it's just not useful here in Texas.
Murloc - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
there are lots of them, up to the mid end though.Dual sim can be useful if you travel/work across the border and you need to use the phone or have a different business phone number.
shabby - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
Obviously dual sim is not popular in america, who wants to pay for 2 smartphone plans?zeeBomb - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
This is going to be what the G5 should have been. A little in the bigger side, yes, but this is what an audiophile or a photographer needs in their life.boe_d - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
The small 3200mah is the deal killer for this phone - otherwise a very good phone. They can still put some lipstick on this pig if they include a spare battery and a charger that can simultaneously charge the phone and the spare battery. If they include a wireless charging backplate they would probably sweeten it a bit.Meteor2 - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
In what sense is 3200 mAh small? Especially when you can replace it? Can you name other phones with equal-sized replaceable batteries?Valantar - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
3200mAh is small in terms of this being a big (!) 5,7" phone in 2016. My 5,2" Sony Z2 from 2014 has a 3200mAh battery, and is waterproof to boot. The V20 is noticeably taller and wider than the Note 7, yet the Note 7's battery is 300mAh larger. That the V20 is .3mm thinner doesn't really help.shadarlo - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I'll cheer the day we get a phone that is slightly thicker, slightly bigger, but is ruggedized to resist most damage from drops. Waterproof. And has a 5,000+ mah battery. And then has all the rest of the top-tier features of the high-end phones.I don't need an ultra tiny phone... we basically all put gigantic cases on our phones anyhow just to protect them.... so why not just build a phone that has the case built into it and uses that extra size to dramatically boost the battery/camera as both are limited by size more than about anything else?
Murloc - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
caterpillar phones are like that (no extra case needed) but not 5000 mAh.And they're not made to take great pictures I think.
boe_d - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
It isn't a bad phone but with the small battery they'll have trouble getting a lot of excitement. If they had a 4000mah phone they'd have a winner. They can still salvage something from the wreckage if they supply a spare battery and a charger that can charge the spare outside the phone and throw in a wireless charging backplate.althaz - Friday, September 9, 2016 - link
"LCD" and I'm out.LCD screens are now worse than OLED displays in every single possible way. Stop using them!
zodiacfml - Friday, September 9, 2016 - link
Right. This is the weakness of the Nexus 5 where it could use an AMOLED screen and significantly better battery life where we can just leave the LTE, WiFi, and GPS on and play 3D games during the commutes and still have juice left when we get home.blzd - Friday, September 9, 2016 - link
N5 battery life wouldn't be much different with OLED, which only really saves battery life when displaying pure black. Since the 5.0 update most of the Android UI is solid white.arbywan - Monday, October 17, 2016 - link
When will the review come out? Do you guys know anything about the phone quality? I've been reading accounts of poor construction.PacoBell - Monday, January 9, 2017 - link
"64GB (UFS 2.0)""The final thing worth mentioning given that I’ve had some time with the preproduction unit at home is that LG is now using SK Hynix’s UFS 2.1 solution, which is supposed to allow for better security between SoC and UFS device."
Well, which one is it? UFS 2.0 or 2.1?
max123 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
The real attraction of <a href="https://youmobile.com.pk/phone/792/lg-g6-price-in-... the LG V10 is the camera </a>that resides above the button cluster, so let’s get right to it. It’s amazing. I’m taking more photos and being more creative than I have with any other phone. Where other smartphones will render an indistinct blob of bright red, the V10 captures a beautiful, finely detailed flower in bloom.