So AMD's best card will be no better than NVIDIA's low/mid range card. I mean we all saw it coming, but it's still a bit disappointing. Can't wait for the GTX 1060
amd is releasing newgen midrange first which makes good business sense, and it offers great value, if you have a problem with that maybe you should get your head examined
It makes terrible business sense to have your best new card for the rest of the year to be worth so little. Trust me if they could sell the card for more they would.
amd have put 14nm into better selling product range - high end GPUs are nice, but they aren't big money makers, since very few people buy them
make a distinction between "worth" and "cost" - the amd lineup is great in this aspect, as it is worth more than it costs, or if you prefer, it offers a very good value
amd is giving priority to midrange for 14nm, which means the chips will be much smaller than a high end chip would be, which means it will enjoy much better yields than nvidia's larger 14nm chips, amd are leaving high end for when the process matures and yields improve
The best selling GPU appears to be gtx 970, selling at 300$. The rx 480 will offer that performance than the 970, at the most selling price point - 200$, at a better power budget.
amd is attacking the best selling and most profitable market range, and the competitor's best selling and most profitable product. This time amd is acting very adequately.
So steam players are buying their cards wholesale? I doubt AMD is concerned so much exactly who winds up selling the cards as long as they get volume. I really don't get who is paying for a $200 card and not using it for steam (try finding a motherboard+CPU that doesn't easily do all non-gaming video tasks). If AMD is actually targeting these people, I need to cancel all plans for a 480 and make sure I can at least afford a 570 (actually things are more complicated than that. I suspect the real factor is the LCD at this point.
Is this largely a foreign market? The desktop market in the US is all but dead. It limps on in the form of Anandtech types who invariably build their own machines and old types who would rather buy a whole new machine (and probably a laptop) than replace a video card. Maybe China/India/elsewhere has people willing to buy such cards (I suspect Korea buys plenty of desktops as well [the better to game, my dear], but is more likely to buy the fancier nVidia cards).
AMD's research here is flawed and biased. they are basing it off their own products. no one wants Fury or Fury X. So AMD looks at the numbers and in their delusional state. Ohh see more people want mid range cards. when the real answer is. no they just dont want your high end cards. ANd I love AMD. but the FURY is a FLOP its a 1440P card at best and has a bad implementation of HBM
and If AMD followed their own advice once in a while. they better release a 480X off the bat. Last time we waited what 8 months till they even released a 4gb VANILLA 380. and then we waited EVEN LONGER for the 380X
mate my current video card is a R9 380 4GB with a i5 6500 16gb 2400 ram your Mom even comes and cleans it in a nice little maids uniform and everything. he also cleans my 40" hint it's not my TV.
Uh, Nvidia purchases are mostly in the mid-range, too. The high-end is a valuable market too but the bulk of GPUs sold are under $300. If you can't design and release 3 GPUs at once, then going after the low-end, the mid-range, and mobile is not a bad plan.
That last part is something a lot of people overlook. Polaris 11 AND 10 can both scale down into lower TDPs for use in multiple laptop segments.
yeah but under a 380 or 480 the video cards become a useless exercise. onboard usually usually prefered than a 360/370 thats just a waste of cash buying a 360/70
Of course everyone wants a high end card! I want a mansion, my own tropical island and a fleet of supercars!
It all comes down to what the highest selling market is, and clearly that is the $200-$300 range of cards (your 390's and 960/970's) so by releasing a card that is more powerful than any existing cards in that range (probably by a fair bit in some instances), using far less power and heat makes plenty of business sense to me.
The highest selling market is more likely in the $100-$150 range. People forget that the Asian market is enormous and they buy a ton of low/mid GPU's. For every 1080 Sold in America there are 100 950's sold in Asia. (yes I just pulled those numbers out of my azz but last info I read said something similar).
the only bias here is your own. YOU don't want a cheap GPU so you think nobody want it. but the fact remains that most discrete GPU sales are sub 300 dollars (and yes that includes both AMD and nvidia)
Both fine restaurants and McDonald's make money, the key question is price compared to cost. Yes, it's yielding the high end but AMD can't afford to offer a full range of products and they can't afford another "almost good enough" confrontation like with Fury. The leaks indicate GTX980 levels of performance for $199, that's a pretty huge value for all those who won't spend $300+ on a graphics card. If they can get a head start on nVidia, some rave reviews and some decent production volume - smaller chips is easier - they might make some money and live to fight another day. It's not really an ideal plan, but going head-to-head with nVidia right now seems like a bad idea, they need to keep the lights on long enough to launch Zen if they want to save the company.
I can't actually imagine how GTX 1060, whose price range is supposed to be around $200, can beat Rx 480, whose performance according to various leak recently is above GTX 980 and can potentially OC to match 1070. Nvidia is basically doomed at anything below 1070.
you're missing the point, the CHOSE to make a mid range card. they're selling is for what they designed it to be sold for.
and anybody buying a overpriced nvidia 10x0 card now is frankly extremly dumb. in a few months we're getting vega and whatever nvidia's planning for the 'big card' with over twice as many transistors as nvidia's current high end offering, and they'll be selling it for around what a 1080 goes for right now. Only a fool would get nvidia's price gauging 'high end' card's that aren't high end at all.
No. NVidia primary growth markets are car infotainment/chipsets and high performance computing. In the last several generations they are designing their GPUs targeting the HPC aka supercomputing and taking market from IBM. AMD is nowhere there. NVidia's gaming cards are actually a leftover of the HPC design, hence they start with the high end and scale down. AMD designs are towards consoles, laptop and desktop markets, and maybe HPC/workstaion if there is any demand for their brand - almost zero at the moment. So, NVidia has no reason neither desire to erode its prices, and to release cheap products first, versus AMD that has no market for expensive workstation and HPC class products.
This round this segmentation became very obvious - if your purpose is gaming, money wise it makes sense to buy AMD. Consoles will have AMD, and Apple will have AMD. If you just have a lot of money to throw, or you are a business customer buying workstations - get NVidia. For both of the two, PC market is the least priority in business.
There will be an RX 490? or something like Fury X II. The card released earlier (RX 480) is equivalent to a GTX 460. These are like GTX 450... and GTS cards.
FYI the RX 480 is faster than a GTX 970, for cheaper. AMD isn't going to try to compete with Nvidia on the high-end at first because the quantity of of $300+ GPUs sold is not nearly as large as the $100-$200 range. AMD needs to regain some consumer trust and show that they have the ability to produce capable cards. So they have to go for where the most quantity is: the mainstream and budget segments.
Obviously both companies are taking different approaches to introducing FinFET cards, which is great for them and us. AMD's approach is where the volume is and I suspect will be the most profitable path.
They don't have the hardware out yet, but it's going to be Vega. They have the Polaris 10 and Polaris 11. Polaris 10 is 'big' Polaris, 11 is 'small' Polaris, and they range from about 1024 SPs on the smaller P11s, to 2560 SPs on the P10s. Vega 10 is going to allegedly be (yikes) 4096 SPs.
Absolutely huge.
And it will feature HBM2. Personally I'd like to see a full-fat Vega 10 GPU paired with 8GB-16GB of GDDR5x memory. That would be siiiiiccckk.
hmm pretty sure the 1060 and RX 480 (possibly 480X) will be close, btw you have to remember nvidia will lose more making a 1060 out of pascal chips than amd out of polaris 10 chips
so if nvidia has good yield on pascal chips they might need to sacrifice those chips for 1060
most people buy >$300 cards am pretty sure the cards less than $300 will be around 80% of the market.. most laptop chips are based on those cheaper and smaller chips due to power usage/temperature
I doubt Nvidia will use GP104 to make the GTX 1060. It'll probably be a GP106 and historically those have been 1/2 of a GP104. Can't see why Nvidia would only use that part for GTX1050 this time around. If there would be a more cut-back version of GP104, it would probably be used in a GTX1060 Ti and cost around $250.
The way I see it, AMD had two choices: compete in $200-300, where Nvidia could drop the 1070 to like $349, or completely own the $100-250 market. Nvidia is selling a 750 Ti at $100 I think. The 460 and 470 will destroy everything south of $200.
The 1060 will compete with the 480, but I don't see it competing very well in anything DX12.
AMD's flagship is mid-range the 1060 will prove that. Currently NVIDIA has the 3 top chips on the market. Anyone who thinks AMD will gain any significant marketsharet is new to this game. The 1060 will probably outsell the 480 3 to 1.
then you have never heard of yields?, amd can make twice as many dies on a wafer compared to nvidia, and you probably havnt notice the crappy FE pricing and all the pricing mess with the latest 1000 series cards have you?
the Funders Edition cards are just renamed inferior reference cards that sells at a premium
Anything can happen from one generation to the next, though it's usually a gradual swing in fortunes rather than a complete blitzing. I think one of the reasons that the GTX 750 (and Ti) did so well was because of its power requirements (or lack thereof); with the spectre of "bad drivers" starting to leave AMD (and it's far overdue), having a much more frugal 1080p offering will mean that people who went for NVIDIA last time over power and drivers might not be so eager to remain in the green camp, especially if - as is par for the course - AMD charges less.
Until the cards are released and we get sales figures (or Steam figures, if that's what you prefer), I don't think we can say for sure what will sell the most and by how, let alone what is going to perform better.
Being able to run the 750ti off the Pci-e was the primary reason for purchase for a LOT of people. Anyone who bought a pre-fabbed tower was able to slot one in, which opened up a massive market. If AMD attacks that market, Nvidia will lose one of it's many cash cows.
The funny thing is that while Nvidia has their halo products, they don't actually have the rest of their product line-up to have a halo effect upon. Neither a 1060 nor a 1050 have been even announced, have they?
RX 470 aka cutdown Polaris 10 has performance roughly equals to GTX 970, and it's only $150, which means basically everyone can afford it, even in their secondary and tertiary PC at home. While RX 480 tackles GTX 980 at $200-250. Most popular GPUs on Steam are GTX 970 and 960. And i seriously doubt a 1060 will be as strong as a 980, and i doubt even more that it will cost any lesser than $250, judging from the pricing of 1070 and 1080. You saw a bad future for AMD while i saw a bad one for Nvidia.
I actually prefer Nvidia cards, but this is a smart move from AMD. Nvidia just released high end cards with rather large price tags, and as someone already mentioned, they don't sell as well as midrange cards. Midrange cards take a HUGE amount of the market share, and AMD are getting in there before Nvidia can release their 1050/1060 models.
why are so many people so fucking uninformed, Vgea is gonna be the one to rip the nuts off of pascal coming in October. and oh please, the 60 series is was and will always be the great shame of nvidia, got nothing on the 480.
Vega is still officially pegged for release in 2017. The rumours of the October release are pretty questionable IMHO. To top it off, we know very little about the performance of Vega. Even if it does beat a 1080, Nvidia still have the GP100 (which we do know quite a bit about) sitting (well!) above the GP104 GPU in a 1080.
I personally like the RX 480 play from AMD and hope it helps their market share and bank balance... we consumers need AMD to stay competitive. But suggesting AMD will somehow dominate Nvidia across the board this round is pretty far fetched.
Trying to use the GP100 to compete against Vega would put Nvidia in a bad spot, because they couldn't be price competitive. GP100 is Nvidia's $1500+ chip, and if they have to use that to compete against Vega they will be in a whole lot of trouble.
AMD have said repeatedly for months that they are changing the way they are releasing their new series by focusing on the "sweet spot" gaming segment. The announcement that the RX480 will be $200 for the 4gb version and a little bit more for 8gb means the end user will be getting 390(x) performance for roughly half the price and half the power.
That is great news to the vast majority of PC gamers who are still on 1080p/60Hz monitors and would like to play these newer AAA games with high/ultra settings at a price point that will not break the bank.
Another thing to note is there is a high-end part coming - Vega - which will look to take on the 1080 and/or 1080ti should there be one. This tech is basically ready, but is reliant on HBM2 which is not being produced in the quantities required (one can also look at the 1080 being released with GDDR5X - I'm sure nVidia would love to have a HBM2 card out, and this will probably be the Ti version in 2017).
I'll bet that the GTX 1060 will beat their 980 and will completely destroy the RX 480 and will do it for close to the same price. It's not looking good for AMD right now, I think they have wasted their time in the GPU world. They should have stayed in Germany and did their CPU research which is when they were on top of the processor game. I know not everyone is made of money, but I am glad that Intel still sells some quality, affordable products, I just wish Nvidia could lower their prices about 50% to get more people back in the gaming world, which would help the entire computer industry.
So AMD have cornered virtually every market available except for the 4K/high-end one. The 480 will do wonders at its price-point for 1440p at 60fps. The 470 will make 1080p at 60fps at $150. And the 460 will make sure you can run DOTA and LoL at 60fps at $100. Bases are covered. All that's left is the monster that is Vega, coming for Christmas or Spring 2017
Agreed. The 460 will be a great card for less demanding titles at 1080p. I'm curious to see what sort of power requirements it has and the physical size of the card as I have some friends that could use an upgrade but only have store bought, standard PCs.
Gaming notebooks won't use Polaris 11, they'll use Polaris 10. Like previous gaming notebooks used Pitcairn with a similar power budget (up to +/- 100W).
Polaris 11 is set to go into sub-notebooks, and the z-height factor should be important for models that push design limits, like e.g. the Surface Book.
1. What is the definition a "gaming notebook" for you? polaris 11 is probably faster than R9 M390. AMD is tallking about "Console-class GPU performance for thin and light notebooks " 2. Height is important for all notebooks not just the surface book. 3. What does your reply say about the fact that it's not about chip height, but notebook height? read the press release. That's all my original post said.
The AMD statement that mentions z-height also mentions thin notebooks, which would be redundant if AMD was not talking about the chip and its systems. I think thin for a notebook is often driven by cooling and thermals. Maybe this chip has advantages in this area.
No bets, but I am hoping that as soon as AMD NDAs are lifted for the 480, there is a comprehensive head-to-head of 1080, 1070, and 480, with 970/960/390/380 on down in the mix. And by comprehensive, not just games but also a sincere mix of compute tasks, those at which both NVIDIA and AMD have exceled at (Single and double precision). That I would be quite content with.
No bets, but I am counting on a comprehensive review the day the AMD NDA is off, head-to-head of 1080, 1070, 480, and the last generation or 2 of high and mid range cards. Games, but also compute, which has been thin to non-existent in the 1080/1070 reviews. THAT would be worth waiting for!!!
I wish amd would realign their naming scheme. Or maybe Nvidia should change theirs. The fact that rx480~gtx1060 (more or less I guess) makes its seem like the high numbered amd cards barely stack up to a lower number Nvidia card. That is amd #80 to Nvidia ##60. What isn't clear is that Nvidia cards start at #50 and go to #80 (we're ignoring hyper enthusiast Titan level). Amd starts at #50 (ish?) and go to Fury (equivalent to Nvidia ##80). The numbering doesn't line up so it seems like amd is weaker to the average consumer who doesn't know amd goes from 50 to Fury and Nvidia goes from 50 to 80.
To be honest I think the numbering is basically ok. It's when they start adding X versions or indeed mixing conventions (name e.g. Fury v number e.g. 380) it starts going a bit wrong.
What AMD need to get right with Zen is CPU branding. The E/A/FX rubbish makes no sense.
@Ryan .. The Chip on Pic looks to be small and released as a pair.. Speculating is both these cards come from the same chip.. The smaller Polaris .. Leaving the Rx 480 being from the bigger chip.. Reading this with the statement "products from $99 to $299" and Rx 480 coming in at $199 or $229 sounds like Rx 480 is not a fully enabled chip??? and fully enabled chip comes in at 299??
Can you probably get info if the there is a younger brother or a elder Brother for Rx 480..
My 2 cents. If they have the relevant HW decode for HEVC and MAIN10, HDMI 2 and DP 1.3/4 these look like excellent HTPC cards.
AMDs lower end lineup is horrible at the moment and these 400 series cards are going exactly where they are needed. Get rid of those four year old rebadges and get the lower end up to the state of the art. Matters more than how many SMs they have, I reckon.
Which website is best for 'FULL' GPU card reviews? By 'FULL' I mean every aspect (inc. audio) (which no one talks about anymore) and alternative outputs (such as cards with 3x HDMI + 1x DP).
Also, is there a website which allow you to compare old cards with new ones? I.e. something very old low end card with current high end ones to see how much better they are? How much faster RX480 vs GTX460? HTPC MadVR use.
So AMD's best card performs between the R9-390X and the GTX980 and is only $199?! Putting two of them together for $398 outperforms NVidia's flagship GTX1080 for $599 or more realistically like $749-$999 as seen on the market today?! That's incredible!
I feel that AMD have a trick up their sleeve. I wouldn't have thought that 980/390/380/290/280 or above owners are going to buy the RX series. People like myself, who still owns and runs a 7850, are very interested. I'm an aging gamer, I still enjoy games when I get time but spending any silly money on a GPU is just not sensible. I will most likely buy myself one and be more than happy with the improvement.
For the owners of the cards mentioned above, some will no doubt stump up the cash for the 1070/1080 but I think AMD are waiting and I suspect that it is GDDR that is making that decision. I'm not going to be bothered if AMD suddenly release a faster card as the RX series is good enough. The next tier shouldn't be disappointed either as they won't have spent any money on a new card.
Since Lisa has noted that this is the entire family RX480/470/460, is there going to be a 5 series before Vega? or is Vega a lot closer than we realise?
If only Nvidia have desire to release GTX 1060, Rx 480 will die instantly. And GT 1050, Rx 470 will have zero-to-little sale. C'mon.. statistic will not lie. Take a look at Amzon or oldegg GPU sale. Why do they help AMD to survive? Or maybe coz this mid-to-low end cards has few profit? Sell some patents to Intel so Nvidia will have REAL competitor? In swap, Intell will give some patents to change Ironing FX into Real CPU? Huh?
By the time Nvidia gets around to releasing the GTX 1060, Vega will have launched. Yeah, giving up the meatiest part of the market segment for 4-5 months isn't a great plan.
On the other hand, the very low end sucks right now. It's dominated by crummy Kepler cards (GT 710, 730, 740) and AMD isn't worth mentioning. The only thing interesting is the low wattage GTX 950 which is probably only a match for the RX 460. I personally have lots of demand for small, low wattage cards that can push 4K @ 60Hz video.
Why is AMD even bothering with the 460 and 470? Sure, they're going to be inexpensive, but they can't even compete with AMD cards that are several years old. You might as well just buy one of the current, faster cards, which are already cheap now. What I want to see is how well the RX 480 does, not synthetic benchmarks. We're almost a week and a half away from the supposed launch date yet no one has their hands on a card yet. Come on AMD get it together. Are you embarrassed or just hanging your head in shame?
If the RX 460 can do H.265 HEVC decode, and can be scaled to fit screens (e.g., 720p/1080p TV) properly, they'll have a sale. Really sick of Intel iGPU drivers scaling being broken and having had them remove the sliders to just adjust it; it's an easy fix that's being fixed so very slowly. I just want a quality HTPC experience.
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Wreckage - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
So AMD's best card will be no better than NVIDIA's low/mid range card. I mean we all saw it coming, but it's still a bit disappointing. Can't wait for the GTX 1060ddriver - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
amd is releasing newgen midrange first which makes good business sense, and it offers great value, if you have a problem with that maybe you should get your head examinedWreckage - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
It makes terrible business sense to have your best new card for the rest of the year to be worth so little. Trust me if they could sell the card for more they would.ddriver - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
amd have put 14nm into better selling product range - high end GPUs are nice, but they aren't big money makers, since very few people buy themmake a distinction between "worth" and "cost" - the amd lineup is great in this aspect, as it is worth more than it costs, or if you prefer, it offers a very good value
amd is giving priority to midrange for 14nm, which means the chips will be much smaller than a high end chip would be, which means it will enjoy much better yields than nvidia's larger 14nm chips, amd are leaving high end for when the process matures and yields improve
ddriver - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
3 of the 5 best selling GPUs are priced at ~200$The best selling GPU appears to be gtx 970, selling at 300$. The rx 480 will offer that performance than the 970, at the most selling price point - 200$, at a better power budget.
amd is attacking the best selling and most profitable market range, and the competitor's best selling and most profitable product. This time amd is acting very adequately.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
the GTX 970 is NOT the best selling GPU, just because it shows a higher percentage on steam certainly doesn't make it so.ddriver - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
I don't care about steam, I get those figures from retailers.wumpus - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
So steam players are buying their cards wholesale? I doubt AMD is concerned so much exactly who winds up selling the cards as long as they get volume. I really don't get who is paying for a $200 card and not using it for steam (try finding a motherboard+CPU that doesn't easily do all non-gaming video tasks). If AMD is actually targeting these people, I need to cancel all plans for a 480 and make sure I can at least afford a 570 (actually things are more complicated than that. I suspect the real factor is the LCD at this point.Is this largely a foreign market? The desktop market in the US is all but dead. It limps on in the form of Anandtech types who invariably build their own machines and old types who would rather buy a whole new machine (and probably a laptop) than replace a video card. Maybe China/India/elsewhere has people willing to buy such cards (I suspect Korea buys plenty of desktops as well [the better to game, my dear], but is more likely to buy the fancier nVidia cards).
The_Countess - Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - link
retailers are already a subset of GPU sales. most go to OEM's.nunya112 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
AMD's research here is flawed and biased. they are basing it off their own products. no one wants Fury or Fury X. So AMD looks at the numbers and in their delusional state. Ohh see more people want mid range cards.when the real answer is. no they just dont want your high end cards. ANd I love AMD. but the FURY is a FLOP its a 1440P card at best and has a bad implementation of HBM
nunya112 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
and If AMD followed their own advice once in a while. they better release a 480X off the bat. Last time we waited what 8 months till they even released a 4gb VANILLA 380. and then we waited EVEN LONGER for the 380XThe_Countess - Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - link
there will be no X versions this time round.ddriver - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
"ANd I love AMD" - 2 brain cells worth of nvidiot troll disguisenunya112 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
mate my current video card is a R9 380 4GB with a i5 6500 16gb 2400 ramyour Mom even comes and cleans it in a nice little maids uniform and everything. he also cleans my 40" hint it's not my TV.
ddriver - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
No need to keep exposing yourself as a mindless troll, it is already beyond obvious.Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Uh, Nvidia purchases are mostly in the mid-range, too. The high-end is a valuable market too but the bulk of GPUs sold are under $300. If you can't design and release 3 GPUs at once, then going after the low-end, the mid-range, and mobile is not a bad plan.That last part is something a lot of people overlook. Polaris 11 AND 10 can both scale down into lower TDPs for use in multiple laptop segments.
nunya112 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
yeah but under a 380 or 480 the video cards become a useless exercise. onboard usually usually prefered than a 360/370 thats just a waste of cash buying a 360/70Nigellus - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
But last leak shows the 480 doing 3 315 score on fire strike ultra. A fury air for 200 bucks?Ashcutus - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Of course everyone wants a high end card! I want a mansion, my own tropical island and a fleet of supercars!It all comes down to what the highest selling market is, and clearly that is the $200-$300 range of cards (your 390's and 960/970's) so by releasing a card that is more powerful than any existing cards in that range (probably by a fair bit in some instances), using far less power and heat makes plenty of business sense to me.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
The highest selling market is more likely in the $100-$150 range. People forget that the Asian market is enormous and they buy a ton of low/mid GPU's. For every 1080 Sold in America there are 100 950's sold in Asia. (yes I just pulled those numbers out of my azz but last info I read said something similar).The_Countess - Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - link
the only bias here is your own. YOU don't want a cheap GPU so you think nobody want it. but the fact remains that most discrete GPU sales are sub 300 dollars (and yes that includes both AMD and nvidia)Kjella - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Both fine restaurants and McDonald's make money, the key question is price compared to cost. Yes, it's yielding the high end but AMD can't afford to offer a full range of products and they can't afford another "almost good enough" confrontation like with Fury. The leaks indicate GTX980 levels of performance for $199, that's a pretty huge value for all those who won't spend $300+ on a graphics card. If they can get a head start on nVidia, some rave reviews and some decent production volume - smaller chips is easier - they might make some money and live to fight another day. It's not really an ideal plan, but going head-to-head with nVidia right now seems like a bad idea, they need to keep the lights on long enough to launch Zen if they want to save the company.Danvelopment - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Did someone say HD 48x0?It's a strategy that works and benefits both the brand and the consumer.
ffleader1 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
I can't actually imagine how GTX 1060, whose price range is supposed to be around $200, can beat Rx 480, whose performance according to various leak recently is above GTX 980 and can potentially OC to match 1070.Nvidia is basically doomed at anything below 1070.
MLSCrow - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
TROLLKenLuskin - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
@Wreckage, U R A MORON!The_Countess - Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - link
you're missing the point, the CHOSE to make a mid range card. they're selling is for what they designed it to be sold for.and anybody buying a overpriced nvidia 10x0 card now is frankly extremly dumb. in a few months we're getting vega and whatever nvidia's planning for the 'big card' with over twice as many transistors as nvidia's current high end offering, and they'll be selling it for around what a 1080 goes for right now. Only a fool would get nvidia's price gauging 'high end' card's that aren't high end at all.
Murloc - Wednesday, June 15, 2016 - link
doesn't it make business sense to put out high margin (and thus high end) cards first?Nvidia did this best with their founder's edition cards.
Ananke - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
No. NVidia primary growth markets are car infotainment/chipsets and high performance computing. In the last several generations they are designing their GPUs targeting the HPC aka supercomputing and taking market from IBM. AMD is nowhere there. NVidia's gaming cards are actually a leftover of the HPC design, hence they start with the high end and scale down. AMD designs are towards consoles, laptop and desktop markets, and maybe HPC/workstaion if there is any demand for their brand - almost zero at the moment.So, NVidia has no reason neither desire to erode its prices, and to release cheap products first, versus AMD that has no market for expensive workstation and HPC class products.
This round this segmentation became very obvious - if your purpose is gaming, money wise it makes sense to buy AMD. Consoles will have AMD, and Apple will have AMD. If you just have a lot of money to throw, or you are a business customer buying workstations - get NVidia. For both of the two, PC market is the least priority in business.
jjj - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
By the same troll logic, Nvidia cheapest card is 449$.Yojimbo - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
What will be AMD's highest performing single GPU card? How will it perform compared to the 1060? What's NVIDIA's cheapest card?descendency - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
There will be an RX 490? or something like Fury X II. The card released earlier (RX 480) is equivalent to a GTX 460. These are like GTX 450... and GTS cards.Rampart19 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
FYI the RX 480 is faster than a GTX 970, for cheaper. AMD isn't going to try to compete with Nvidia on the high-end at first because the quantity of of $300+ GPUs sold is not nearly as large as the $100-$200 range. AMD needs to regain some consumer trust and show that they have the ability to produce capable cards. So they have to go for where the most quantity is: the mainstream and budget segments.Meteor2 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Obviously both companies are taking different approaches to introducing FinFET cards, which is great for them and us. AMD's approach is where the volume is and I suspect will be the most profitable path.bill.rookard - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
They don't have the hardware out yet, but it's going to be Vega. They have the Polaris 10 and Polaris 11. Polaris 10 is 'big' Polaris, 11 is 'small' Polaris, and they range from about 1024 SPs on the smaller P11s, to 2560 SPs on the P10s. Vega 10 is going to allegedly be (yikes) 4096 SPs.Absolutely huge.
And it will feature HBM2. Personally I'd like to see a full-fat Vega 10 GPU paired with 8GB-16GB of GDDR5x memory. That would be siiiiiccckk.
wiak - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
hmm pretty sure the 1060 and RX 480 (possibly 480X) will be close, btw you have to remember nvidia will lose more making a 1060 out of pascal chips than amd out of polaris 10 chipsso if nvidia has good yield on pascal chips they might need to sacrifice those chips for 1060
most people buy >$300 cards
am pretty sure the cards less than $300 will be around 80% of the market.. most laptop chips are based on those cheaper and smaller chips due to power usage/temperature
anyway just my taughts
Macpoedel - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
I doubt Nvidia will use GP104 to make the GTX 1060. It'll probably be a GP106 and historically those have been 1/2 of a GP104. Can't see why Nvidia would only use that part for GTX1050 this time around. If there would be a more cut-back version of GP104, it would probably be used in a GTX1060 Ti and cost around $250.Drumsticks - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
The way I see it, AMD had two choices: compete in $200-300, where Nvidia could drop the 1070 to like $349, or completely own the $100-250 market. Nvidia is selling a 750 Ti at $100 I think. The 460 and 470 will destroy everything south of $200.The 1060 will compete with the 480, but I don't see it competing very well in anything DX12.
Shahnewaz - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
- Says AMD's flagship are mid-range- Says he can't wait for the GTX 1060
Makes perfect sense. -_-
Wreckage - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
AMD's flagship is mid-range the 1060 will prove that. Currently NVIDIA has the 3 top chips on the market. Anyone who thinks AMD will gain any significant marketsharet is new to this game. The 1060 will probably outsell the 480 3 to 1.TheinsanegamerN - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
AMD's flagship is vega, not polaris. Polaris has always been mid range.wiak - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
then you have never heard of yields?, amd can make twice as many dies on a wafer compared to nvidia, and you probably havnt notice the crappy FE pricing and all the pricing mess with the latest 1000 series cards have you?the Funders Edition cards are just renamed inferior reference cards that sells at a premium
silverblue - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Anything can happen from one generation to the next, though it's usually a gradual swing in fortunes rather than a complete blitzing. I think one of the reasons that the GTX 750 (and Ti) did so well was because of its power requirements (or lack thereof); with the spectre of "bad drivers" starting to leave AMD (and it's far overdue), having a much more frugal 1080p offering will mean that people who went for NVIDIA last time over power and drivers might not be so eager to remain in the green camp, especially if - as is par for the course - AMD charges less.Until the cards are released and we get sales figures (or Steam figures, if that's what you prefer), I don't think we can say for sure what will sell the most and by how, let alone what is going to perform better.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Being able to run the 750ti off the Pci-e was the primary reason for purchase for a LOT of people. Anyone who bought a pre-fabbed tower was able to slot one in, which opened up a massive market. If AMD attacks that market, Nvidia will lose one of it's many cash cows.ddriver - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
he does as good as a troll canImSpartacus - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Wow, the halo effect is real.I'm amazed at how many people are seriously miffed at AMD's unique lineup in 2016.
You always hear about the halo effect, but it's definitely noticeable with people now.
Meteor2 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
The funny thing is that while Nvidia has their halo products, they don't actually have the rest of their product line-up to have a halo effect upon. Neither a 1060 nor a 1050 have been even announced, have they?revanchrist - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
RX 470 aka cutdown Polaris 10 has performance roughly equals to GTX 970, and it's only $150, which means basically everyone can afford it, even in their secondary and tertiary PC at home. While RX 480 tackles GTX 980 at $200-250. Most popular GPUs on Steam are GTX 970 and 960. And i seriously doubt a 1060 will be as strong as a 980, and i doubt even more that it will cost any lesser than $250, judging from the pricing of 1070 and 1080. You saw a bad future for AMD while i saw a bad one for Nvidia.MatthewShine - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
I actually prefer Nvidia cards, but this is a smart move from AMD.Nvidia just released high end cards with rather large price tags, and as someone already mentioned, they don't sell as well as midrange cards.
Midrange cards take a HUGE amount of the market share, and AMD are getting in there before Nvidia can release their 1050/1060 models.
to;g - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
why are so many people so fucking uninformed, Vgea is gonna be the one to rip the nuts off of pascal coming in October. and oh please, the 60 series is was and will always be the great shame of nvidia, got nothing on the 480.rhysiam - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Vega is still officially pegged for release in 2017. The rumours of the October release are pretty questionable IMHO. To top it off, we know very little about the performance of Vega. Even if it does beat a 1080, Nvidia still have the GP100 (which we do know quite a bit about) sitting (well!) above the GP104 GPU in a 1080.I personally like the RX 480 play from AMD and hope it helps their market share and bank balance... we consumers need AMD to stay competitive. But suggesting AMD will somehow dominate Nvidia across the board this round is pretty far fetched.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Trying to use the GP100 to compete against Vega would put Nvidia in a bad spot, because they couldn't be price competitive. GP100 is Nvidia's $1500+ chip, and if they have to use that to compete against Vega they will be in a whole lot of trouble.Ashcutus - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
AMD have said repeatedly for months that they are changing the way they are releasing their new series by focusing on the "sweet spot" gaming segment. The announcement that the RX480 will be $200 for the 4gb version and a little bit more for 8gb means the end user will be getting 390(x) performance for roughly half the price and half the power.That is great news to the vast majority of PC gamers who are still on 1080p/60Hz monitors and would like to play these newer AAA games with high/ultra settings at a price point that will not break the bank.
Another thing to note is there is a high-end part coming - Vega - which will look to take on the 1080 and/or 1080ti should there be one. This tech is basically ready, but is reliant on HBM2 which is not being produced in the quantities required (one can also look at the 1080 being released with GDDR5X - I'm sure nVidia would love to have a HBM2 card out, and this will probably be the Ti version in 2017).
Shadow7037932 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
This is Polaris. It's not AMD's high end architecture.MLSCrow - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
TROLLfanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
How was that being a troll? Making accurate statements is now considered being a troll? GTFOKenLuskin - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
@Wreckage84% of GPUs sold are in the range of $100 to $300... but MORONS like you canNOT understand that AMD is running a business.
MORONS like you only care about yourself.
so. FUCK YOU MORON!
BTW, AMD will bring out GPUs that CRUSH Nvidia at the high end later on when they combine VEGA with HBM2 late this year or early 2017.
SUCK on that MORON!
beast6228 - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
I'll bet that the GTX 1060 will beat their 980 and will completely destroy the RX 480 and will do it for close to the same price. It's not looking good for AMD right now, I think they have wasted their time in the GPU world. They should have stayed in Germany and did their CPU research which is when they were on top of the processor game. I know not everyone is made of money, but I am glad that Intel still sells some quality, affordable products, I just wish Nvidia could lower their prices about 50% to get more people back in the gaming world, which would help the entire computer industry.Creig - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
The only thing we all saw coming, Wreckage/Prime1, was you showing up to troll an AMD article.Eden-K121D - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
RX 470 will make for a brilliant 1080P card purchasestanleyipkiss - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
So AMD have cornered virtually every market available except for the 4K/high-end one. The 480 will do wonders at its price-point for 1440p at 60fps. The 470 will make 1080p at 60fps at $150. And the 460 will make sure you can run DOTA and LoL at 60fps at $100. Bases are covered. All that's left is the monster that is Vega, coming for Christmas or Spring 2017Rampart19 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Agreed. The 460 will be a great card for less demanding titles at 1080p. I'm curious to see what sort of power requirements it has and the physical size of the card as I have some friends that could use an upgrade but only have store bought, standard PCs.Eden-K121D - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
460 could do 720P and 900P at 60FPS and that could be a selling point in a developing country where even 1080P monitors are rare as hellflipflopxx - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
cmon Ryan. The z-height is about the notebook not the chip itself.Gaming notebooks are the size of the packaging of a regular nb due to the cooling required...
ToTTenTranz - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Gaming notebooks won't use Polaris 11, they'll use Polaris 10. Like previous gaming notebooks used Pitcairn with a similar power budget (up to +/- 100W).Polaris 11 is set to go into sub-notebooks, and the z-height factor should be important for models that push design limits, like e.g. the Surface Book.
flipflopxx - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
1. What is the definition a "gaming notebook" for you? polaris 11 is probably faster than R9 M390. AMD is tallking about "Console-class GPU performance for thin and light notebooks "2. Height is important for all notebooks not just the surface book.
3. What does your reply say about the fact that it's not about chip height, but notebook height? read the press release. That's all my original post said.
Hrobertgar - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
The AMD statement that mentions z-height also mentions thin notebooks, which would be redundant if AMD was not talking about the chip and its systems. I think thin for a notebook is often driven by cooling and thermals. Maybe this chip has advantages in this area.Beararam - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
It'll be interesting to see which review is done first: The 960, 1080, or 1060. Any bets?vladx - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
1080 review will come first for sure, you can quote me later. ;)catavalon21 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
No bets, but I am hoping that as soon as AMD NDAs are lifted for the 480, there is a comprehensive head-to-head of 1080, 1070, and 480, with 970/960/390/380 on down in the mix. And by comprehensive, not just games but also a sincere mix of compute tasks, those at which both NVIDIA and AMD have exceled at (Single and double precision). That I would be quite content with.Meteor2 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
There will be such comparison tests, but not on this website.catavalon21 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
No bets, but I am counting on a comprehensive review the day the AMD NDA is off, head-to-head of 1080, 1070, 480, and the last generation or 2 of high and mid range cards. Games, but also compute, which has been thin to non-existent in the 1080/1070 reviews. THAT would be worth waiting for!!!catavalon21 - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Oh, yay, the "posted it twice" idiot. That's me.AndrewJacksonZA - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
It's OK catavalon21, we still love you. :-)boozed - Monday, June 13, 2016 - link
Video cards don't have feelingsHollyDOL - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Mine does. When I play with it, it always becomes hot.Eden-K121D - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
HahaEj24 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
I wish amd would realign their naming scheme. Or maybe Nvidia should change theirs. The fact that rx480~gtx1060 (more or less I guess) makes its seem like the high numbered amd cards barely stack up to a lower number Nvidia card. That is amd #80 to Nvidia ##60. What isn't clear is that Nvidia cards start at #50 and go to #80 (we're ignoring hyper enthusiast Titan level). Amd starts at #50 (ish?) and go to Fury (equivalent to Nvidia ##80). The numbering doesn't line up so it seems like amd is weaker to the average consumer who doesn't know amd goes from 50 to Fury and Nvidia goes from 50 to 80.Meteor2 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
To be honest I think the numbering is basically ok. It's when they start adding X versions or indeed mixing conventions (name e.g. Fury v number e.g. 380) it starts going a bit wrong.What AMD need to get right with Zen is CPU branding. The E/A/FX rubbish makes no sense.
tarqsharq - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
I had a 560 TI 448 Core Edition... which wasn't a 560 at all, but a slightly cut down 570.It never showed up correctly in Nvidia's own drivers, the red headed stepchild as a result of a weird limited run binning.
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
Dont forget the last minute 560SE as well. not 570 based, but came out when the 7000 series did.Fermi was weird. Good, but weird.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Someone isn't familiar with the 710, 720, 730 etc. apparently.Archie2085 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
@Ryan .. The Chip on Pic looks to be small and released as a pair.. Speculating is both these cards come from the same chip.. The smaller Polaris .. Leaving the Rx 480 being from the bigger chip.. Reading this with the statement "products from $99 to $299" and Rx 480 coming in at $199 or $229 sounds like Rx 480 is not a fully enabled chip??? and fully enabled chip comes in at 299??Can you probably get info if the there is a younger brother or a elder Brother for Rx 480..
Meteor2 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Yes there's definitely a $299 Polaris card coming, a 490 I guess.Eden-K121D - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
2816 CU for 299 with 8GB GDDRX with ~ 8.5 Tflops of performancetarqsharq - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
We're more likely to get a cut down Vega in that power slot instead of a maxed out Polaris.With a 232mm^2 surface area and doing the math from scaling on previous chips on area/CU ratio... 2560 is pushing it for the allotted space.
doggface - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
My 2 cents. If they have the relevant HW decode for HEVC and MAIN10, HDMI 2 and DP 1.3/4 these look like excellent HTPC cards.AMDs lower end lineup is horrible at the moment and these 400 series cards are going exactly where they are needed. Get rid of those four year old rebadges and get the lower end up to the state of the art. Matters more than how many SMs they have, I reckon.
It isn't always about MAX FPS/Ultra settings.
bill44 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Which website is best for 'FULL' GPU card reviews? By 'FULL' I mean every aspect (inc. audio)(which no one talks about anymore) and alternative outputs (such as cards with 3x HDMI + 1x DP).
Also, is there a website which allow you to compare old cards with new ones? I.e. something very old low end card with current high end ones to see how much better they are? How much faster RX480 vs GTX460? HTPC MadVR use.
fanofanand - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
That used to be Anandtech before it became Appletech. *cry*MLSCrow - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
So AMD's best card performs between the R9-390X and the GTX980 and is only $199?! Putting two of them together for $398 outperforms NVidia's flagship GTX1080 for $599 or more realistically like $749-$999 as seen on the market today?! That's incredible!http://videocardz.com/61005/new-amd-radeon-rx-480-...
milkod2001 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
In theory yes, in practice no. Always get one strong GPU rather than 2 crappy ones even if you save yourself a few bucks. It's not worth it.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
It's obnoxiously poor writing to use the word tease six times between the title and three paragraphs.It's like you're trying to annoy readers.
Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
"AMD Teases FutureAMD is still attending E3 to tease
AMD is very briefly teasing
AMD previously teased
the RX 470 and RX 460 are even more brief teases
so this is a true teaser"
All in barely three paragraphs.
stardude82 - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
Can I pleez haz low profile, single slot, <25W card with HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.4?TheinsanegamerN - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
No.draizze - Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - link
They should also add some teaser about Vega, that'll make them like they didn't give up the high end market.Chris A. - Wednesday, June 15, 2016 - link
I feel that AMD have a trick up their sleeve. I wouldn't have thought that 980/390/380/290/280 or above owners are going to buy the RX series. People like myself, who still owns and runs a 7850, are very interested. I'm an aging gamer, I still enjoy games when I get time but spending any silly money on a GPU is just not sensible. I will most likely buy myself one and be more than happy with the improvement.For the owners of the cards mentioned above, some will no doubt stump up the cash for the 1070/1080 but I think AMD are waiting and I suspect that it is GDDR that is making that decision. I'm not going to be bothered if AMD suddenly release a faster card as the RX series is good enough. The next tier shouldn't be disappointed either as they won't have spent any money on a new card.
Since Lisa has noted that this is the entire family RX480/470/460, is there going to be a 5 series before Vega? or is Vega a lot closer than we realise?
Beararam - Thursday, June 16, 2016 - link
You know what this article isn't? A 1080 review.kyrios - Thursday, June 16, 2016 - link
If only Nvidia have desire to release GTX 1060, Rx 480 will die instantly.And GT 1050, Rx 470 will have zero-to-little sale. C'mon.. statistic will not lie. Take a look at Amzon or oldegg GPU sale.
Why do they help AMD to survive? Or maybe coz this mid-to-low end cards has few profit?
Sell some patents to Intel so Nvidia will have REAL competitor? In swap, Intell will give some patents to change Ironing FX into Real CPU? Huh?
stardude82 - Thursday, June 16, 2016 - link
By the time Nvidia gets around to releasing the GTX 1060, Vega will have launched. Yeah, giving up the meatiest part of the market segment for 4-5 months isn't a great plan.On the other hand, the very low end sucks right now. It's dominated by crummy Kepler cards (GT 710, 730, 740) and AMD isn't worth mentioning. The only thing interesting is the low wattage GTX 950 which is probably only a match for the RX 460. I personally have lots of demand for small, low wattage cards that can push 4K @ 60Hz video.
SolMiester - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
eh?, its already been said, Vega wont be out until 2017, GP102 & GP106 will be out before Q4beast6228 - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
Why is AMD even bothering with the 460 and 470? Sure, they're going to be inexpensive, but they can't even compete with AMD cards that are several years old. You might as well just buy one of the current, faster cards, which are already cheap now. What I want to see is how well the RX 480 does, not synthetic benchmarks. We're almost a week and a half away from the supposed launch date yet no one has their hands on a card yet. Come on AMD get it together. Are you embarrassed or just hanging your head in shame?TheinsanegamerN - Friday, June 17, 2016 - link
Which cards would those be? The 470 looks to be much better then the 370, same for the 460 vs 360.DonMiguel85 - Sunday, June 19, 2016 - link
We still don't have the GTX 960 and 950 reviews so I wonder if we'll ever get an RX 480 review. We don't even have GTX 1080 or 1070 reviews hereLoneWolf15 - Tuesday, July 26, 2016 - link
If the RX 460 can do H.265 HEVC decode, and can be scaled to fit screens (e.g., 720p/1080p TV) properly, they'll have a sale. Really sick of Intel iGPU drivers scaling being broken and having had them remove the sliders to just adjust it; it's an easy fix that's being fixed so very slowly. I just want a quality HTPC experience.