I worked with a ramtech PSU that had an external to the PSU internal to the system battery so the system could be unplugged, moved to a different room, and plugged back in without waiting for shut down and boot times.
When you have two PSUs like this, all you need is a UPS on a cart and you can do the same thing. Unplug one from mains/line voltage and plug into the UPS, then unplug the other PSU and move the machine around. With a large enough UPS you can move really far this way. With a smaller UPS, you may have to make intermittent stops down the hallway / across the server room to recharge... :D
Recharge? Psshh, you just grab another fully-charged UPS and plug it into the other PSU. Then you disconnect the dying one, plug that in to charge, and continue on your merry way. With enough UPS units, you can UPS-walk a server around all day.
While this image in people's minds is always funny (the admin with a cart), actually doing it is less so. :D I remember having to do this once many years ago relocating some servers between two buildings, across a parking lot. We were 5 people doing it and a crowd gathered in the parking lot, in total silence so they could hear the servers whir while being moved. At that time for some people it must have been some kind of magic.
This is interesting. But quite a lot more expensive than I would have expected. I would have bought the 500W for around $250 as it would make sense for a NAS setup.
If this product is going to stick around, this can be nice for workstations too. I have no problem replacing a whole PSU, but there are a lot more people who can handle sliding out and replacing a PSU module without even opening the case. Even a single-PSU version would be nice. When a PC fails to start, the first step would be to take 5 seconds and swap in a spare PSU.
At least in my experience, the tiny fans in server grade hardware aren't something you want to be sitting near for an extended period of time. This thing will likely be *loud* compared to what most people find acceptable to be in the same room with.
I think you might be onto something with the single-PSU quick-swap idea. It would be nifty to be able to replace the PSU's fan and internals without touching cabling. Boom pow done in seconds. Or if you suspect the PSU is bad, yank it and test it with a little load testin' box without having to crack the case or disconnect anything inside.
Not sure how much this would affect efficiency though, especially if you're already using modular cables. Probably not much if done well.
For me, only if there was zero premium over a normal PSU. That is, dead PSUs aren't so frequent for me that I'd be willing to pay a dime over an equivalent, normal ATX PSU.
For these, I wonder if FSP has made any commitment to how long they'll support them. Sure would suck if you have one die two years from now and find FSP doesn't make replacement modules anymore.
Servers have had redundant/hot-swap PSU options for a while, and it's nice to see this available for desktops.
I agree with the need for reducing the pricing. While I would consider it at $200-300, I'm not considering it at $400. I would just go with a trusted PSU & a UPS, like I do now.
Agreed with the comments about pricing, but it is a niche product so they may find enough takers. That being said, the 700W version may end up costing almost as much as a really nice used server which is a little mind boggling. I've seen dual hex core Xeon 2U servers with really nice SuperMicro boards and chassis that include redundant 700W power supplies in the $600 range on eBay.
I agree. The price is shocking. $400 buys you a 2 year old server chassis already equipped with redundant 80-plus PSU's. Many of them will include an LGA2011 board, Xeon 1225 v2 and some ram. Drop in some drives and go.
When this is $200 I'll be interested. Those server PSU's don't even cost that much more than good ITX PSU's.
For the $400 price tag, I'd just get a cheaper 2U, 3U, or 4U server chassis and use standard server chassis form factor PSUs. If the dual PSU server chassis didn't support hot swap, then I'd use the much cheaper alternative of getting a Phanteks Power Splitter PH-PWSPR_1P2M which would take care of redundancy.
This is a case of product looking for a market, as the market isn't looking for this product.
Also, for those mentioning UPS + PSU, that doesn't solve the core issue that redundant power supplies offer. Redundant power supplies guards against unplanned server outage should the power supply fail; not because of a power outage.
Server systems use UPS systems, backup UPS systems, and sometimes even a generator + backup generator for mission critical datacenters, AND redundant power supplies per server.
That Phanteks splitter you posted does the reverse of what you think. It's designed to power two separate loads / systems off of a single PSU, not attach two PSUs to one system.
I have a bigass tower case (Coolermaster Stacker 830, remember those?) that I've put several hot-swap trays into. I've been thinking of building it into a nice FreeNAS box, and something like this would be perfect for that machine. If it's backing VMs on a diskless or near-diskless secondary server, I wouldn't want it to go down due to single PSU failure...
The question is begged - has anyone here ever had a reliably-branded PSU ever fail mid-use? Even with long desktop/server sessions? No-one running a "mission-critical" 24/7 server would be using a cheap PSU with poor components, so what is the *real* risk of such a failure? I have to doubt the cost-effectiveness of this compared to simply buying a known more reliable brand to start with (at far lower cost). Power outtage, requiring a UPS for insurance, is surely a far more likely scenario than an out-of-the-blue PSU failure.
Agreed. I've been running a storage server and a gaming desktop for 7 years with the same Corsair PSUs. After 7 years my server PSU finally started showing its age, causing some of the disks to fail to spin-up during boot. Swapped the PSUs between the two computers and everything is fine now (server definitely puts a lot more strain on the PSU than the desktop, especially during boot). If one of these PSUs ever completely failed I wouldn't be too angry as they've long surpassed their warranties. Now I am not running a mission-critical server, so the chance of a single failure on the time scale of 7 years is not a problem. I'm sure there are prosumers running mission critical servers, but it's hard to image anything but the tiniest niche of consumers getting value out of a redundant power supply. If you don't lose money when your server goes down, why pay the premium?
> I'm sure there are prosumers running mission critical servers, but it's hard to image anything but the tiniest niche of consumers getting value out of a redundant power supply. If you don't lose money when your server goes down, why pay the premium?
"Prosumers" running critical servers on standard ATX hardware? Sounds paradox to me. Also with such a setup you would inherit all of the downsides as well: Horrible efficiency, terrible noise, twice the standby power draw. I've seen a lot of use in exotic equipment where everyone else would just shake their head but this is definitely not one of those moments...
It's more of a convenience thing. You can hot plug the whole PC across different circuit with a long extension cord or transport it long distances with a swapped in UPS (or two) since only one of the two PSU's needs to be active. But yeah, as you said for reliability, even in cheap PC's I rarely see PSU's fail anymore other than surges and occasional fan failures. In the enterprise I've never seen an EATX/EPS PSU fail. Never.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
23 Comments
Back to Article
jjj - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
In consumer it would be nicer if they had a UPS module, can't remember anyone integrating a UPS in a PSU.Demon-Xanth - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
I worked with a ramtech PSU that had an external to the PSU internal to the system battery so the system could be unplugged, moved to a different room, and plugged back in without waiting for shut down and boot times.ZPrime - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
When you have two PSUs like this, all you need is a UPS on a cart and you can do the same thing. Unplug one from mains/line voltage and plug into the UPS, then unplug the other PSU and move the machine around. With a large enough UPS you can move really far this way. With a smaller UPS, you may have to make intermittent stops down the hallway / across the server room to recharge... :DUPS-walking is fun!
Alexvrb - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
Recharge? Psshh, you just grab another fully-charged UPS and plug it into the other PSU. Then you disconnect the dying one, plug that in to charge, and continue on your merry way. With enough UPS units, you can UPS-walk a server around all day.redfirebird15 - Saturday, May 28, 2016 - link
This comment made my day! I totally pictured an administrator with a cart for the server and a cart full of UPS's like waiting in an elevator.Alexvrb - Sunday, May 29, 2016 - link
:-) Just make sure you plug in a fresh one before you take a break. Imagine the cart waiting outside the bathroom with a "DO NOT TOUCH" sign on it.close - Monday, May 30, 2016 - link
While this image in people's minds is always funny (the admin with a cart), actually doing it is less so. :D I remember having to do this once many years ago relocating some servers between two buildings, across a parking lot. We were 5 people doing it and a crowd gathered in the parking lot, in total silence so they could hear the servers whir while being moved. At that time for some people it must have been some kind of magic.Shadow7037932 - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
This is interesting. But quite a lot more expensive than I would have expected. I would have bought the 500W for around $250 as it would make sense for a NAS setup.JeffFlanagan - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
If this product is going to stick around, this can be nice for workstations too. I have no problem replacing a whole PSU, but there are a lot more people who can handle sliding out and replacing a PSU module without even opening the case. Even a single-PSU version would be nice. When a PC fails to start, the first step would be to take 5 seconds and swap in a spare PSU.Bob Todd - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
At least in my experience, the tiny fans in server grade hardware aren't something you want to be sitting near for an extended period of time. This thing will likely be *loud* compared to what most people find acceptable to be in the same room with.Lonyo - Monday, May 30, 2016 - link
But if it's aimed at home servers, that shouldn't be an issue as presumably they expect the server to be somewhere discrete.Alexvrb - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
I think you might be onto something with the single-PSU quick-swap idea. It would be nifty to be able to replace the PSU's fan and internals without touching cabling. Boom pow done in seconds. Or if you suspect the PSU is bad, yank it and test it with a little load testin' box without having to crack the case or disconnect anything inside.Not sure how much this would affect efficiency though, especially if you're already using modular cables. Probably not much if done well.
fluxtatic - Monday, May 30, 2016 - link
For me, only if there was zero premium over a normal PSU. That is, dead PSUs aren't so frequent for me that I'd be willing to pay a dime over an equivalent, normal ATX PSU.For these, I wonder if FSP has made any commitment to how long they'll support them. Sure would suck if you have one die two years from now and find FSP doesn't make replacement modules anymore.
romrunning - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
Servers have had redundant/hot-swap PSU options for a while, and it's nice to see this available for desktops.I agree with the need for reducing the pricing. While I would consider it at $200-300, I'm not considering it at $400. I would just go with a trusted PSU & a UPS, like I do now.
Bob Todd - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
Agreed with the comments about pricing, but it is a niche product so they may find enough takers. That being said, the 700W version may end up costing almost as much as a really nice used server which is a little mind boggling. I've seen dual hex core Xeon 2U servers with really nice SuperMicro boards and chassis that include redundant 700W power supplies in the $600 range on eBay.Samus - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
I agree. The price is shocking. $400 buys you a 2 year old server chassis already equipped with redundant 80-plus PSU's. Many of them will include an LGA2011 board, Xeon 1225 v2 and some ram. Drop in some drives and go.When this is $200 I'll be interested. Those server PSU's don't even cost that much more than good ITX PSU's.
JoeyJoJo123 - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
Costs way too much for a proprietary solution.For the $400 price tag, I'd just get a cheaper 2U, 3U, or 4U server chassis and use standard server chassis form factor PSUs. If the dual PSU server chassis didn't support hot swap, then I'd use the much cheaper alternative of getting a Phanteks Power Splitter PH-PWSPR_1P2M which would take care of redundancy.
This is a case of product looking for a market, as the market isn't looking for this product.
Also, for those mentioning UPS + PSU, that doesn't solve the core issue that redundant power supplies offer. Redundant power supplies guards against unplanned server outage should the power supply fail; not because of a power outage.
Server systems use UPS systems, backup UPS systems, and sometimes even a generator + backup generator for mission critical datacenters, AND redundant power supplies per server.
ZPrime - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
That Phanteks splitter you posted does the reverse of what you think. It's designed to power two separate loads / systems off of a single PSU, not attach two PSUs to one system.I have a bigass tower case (Coolermaster Stacker 830, remember those?) that I've put several hot-swap trays into. I've been thinking of building it into a nice FreeNAS box, and something like this would be perfect for that machine. If it's backing VMs on a diskless or near-diskless secondary server, I wouldn't want it to go down due to single PSU failure...
asmian - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
The question is begged - has anyone here ever had a reliably-branded PSU ever fail mid-use? Even with long desktop/server sessions? No-one running a "mission-critical" 24/7 server would be using a cheap PSU with poor components, so what is the *real* risk of such a failure? I have to doubt the cost-effectiveness of this compared to simply buying a known more reliable brand to start with (at far lower cost). Power outtage, requiring a UPS for insurance, is surely a far more likely scenario than an out-of-the-blue PSU failure.3DoubleD - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
Agreed. I've been running a storage server and a gaming desktop for 7 years with the same Corsair PSUs. After 7 years my server PSU finally started showing its age, causing some of the disks to fail to spin-up during boot. Swapped the PSUs between the two computers and everything is fine now (server definitely puts a lot more strain on the PSU than the desktop, especially during boot). If one of these PSUs ever completely failed I wouldn't be too angry as they've long surpassed their warranties. Now I am not running a mission-critical server, so the chance of a single failure on the time scale of 7 years is not a problem. I'm sure there are prosumers running mission critical servers, but it's hard to image anything but the tiniest niche of consumers getting value out of a redundant power supply. If you don't lose money when your server goes down, why pay the premium?Daniel Egger - Friday, May 27, 2016 - link
> I'm sure there are prosumers running mission critical servers, but it's hard to image anything but the tiniest niche of consumers getting value out of a redundant power supply. If you don't lose money when your server goes down, why pay the premium?"Prosumers" running critical servers on standard ATX hardware? Sounds paradox to me. Also with such a setup you would inherit all of the downsides as well: Horrible efficiency, terrible noise, twice the standby power draw. I've seen a lot of use in exotic equipment where everyone else would just shake their head but this is definitely not one of those moments...
Samus - Monday, May 30, 2016 - link
It's more of a convenience thing. You can hot plug the whole PC across different circuit with a long extension cord or transport it long distances with a swapped in UPS (or two) since only one of the two PSU's needs to be active. But yeah, as you said for reliability, even in cheap PC's I rarely see PSU's fail anymore other than surges and occasional fan failures. In the enterprise I've never seen an EATX/EPS PSU fail. Never.debdrup - Monday, May 30, 2016 - link
No mention of an SMBus connector? I really wish more consumer motherboards and PSUs would feature SMBus instead of doing it through USB.