1)I still have lot of trust issues to overcome after the HORRIBLE windows live gaming debacle 2) Origin , Uplay , Steam their launch was very far from perfect but many many many years ago , to launch a new game store and miss these kind of features, i am kinda baffled , can you install games already on a other partition? 3) and maby i am wrong here but the most EXPENSIVE PC game store ever? 69.99 euro for Quantum break/Tomb raider THOSE ARE(VERY EXPENSIVE) CONSOLE prices for the base game???? What does this store offer over gog , humble bundle , retail , steam , uplay , origin ,.....
1: yeah they could create a legacy server that does nothing but authenticate so people with those Games for Windows Live titles can at least play them and save their game.
2: The store is integrated into the OS. One things UWP can do is give away games for free OR as part of a promo (buy xbox, get pc for free deal) Steam cant do that. UWP is vertically integrated with the OS and 10 years from now, it will be offering features steam and origin simply cannot pull off due to "vertical integration". Steam didnt have the ability to install games on a different drive for 3 years. I'm betting microsoft integrates most of the wanted features much faster.
3) these titles are brand new and AAA at that, and even if they were on steam, they would not be on sale for at least 6 months. Your getting punished by your country's poor currency value and VAT. This is all do to your goverment. Should developers take less because your government is greedy? hardly.
Yet despite all your points UWP applications can only be purchased in the Windows Store. Why would I ever want to restrict myself to only ever being able to buy from one place?
Also, your douchebaggery comments about the Euro are most unwelcome. I'm going out on a limb here and assume you're American. If so, you'd know that it was the US (or rather US companies) which was more or less solely responsible for tanking the world economy back in 2008. But that's a whole different kettle of fish...
Most games on the market are only available via one online store. Valve's games (and thousands of others) are exclusive to Steam. EA's are exclusive to Origin. Ubisoft games pretend to be available via Steam...but they aren't really (they all still require uPlay, which remains horrifically broken).
Yeah I'm sure the excessive social spending beyond revenue received by countries like Greece, Spain etc. had nothing to do with their own problems. Everything is the fault of big bad evil 'Murica. Nice try Azrael.
These prices have nothing to do with VAT/country , most AAA PC game in the European market are 49.99 - 59.99 euro on steam(which is most of the time already the most expensive route) , on retail and different chains you can quiet often -10% so 45-55 euro , some developer sell games cheaper in parts of Europe but since it is a European open market it legal to get copies from there so thats way you sometimes can get AAA PC games - legal for just below 40 euro on the European market.
If these games had some season pass or bundle included into them It would make sense. If not well, Microsoft is extremely inefficient with their business , they trying to protect their console game prices or they absolutely clueless about the market situation. In all 3 cases it make their store look stupid.
The one that was also "vertically" integrated in the mobile business sector with the PDA's and Windows Mobile way before "smartphones" existed. Where are they now? Pretty much a comic relief with Windows 10 Mobile.
With Windows 10 being shoved down our throats I think most of us are looking to go Linux. As more and more games are made for it I would be happy to swap over my 12 gaming PCs. (My basement is a LAN for friends). I realize I am the exception, most users have a single desktop - however I'm a true enthusiast and most enthusiasts like myself build PCs for at least everyone in their family. As it is my girlfriend's mom uses Google apps for her job now as they've shied from Microsoft as well. I work for the government, and suspect that they are very close cohorts with M$...
"can you install games already on a other partition?"
I doubt it. I'm also pretty sure that these are installed on a per-user basis, so if you've got family members that play the same game, you're going to have to install it multiple times.
Even on Win 10 Phone you can easily move the installed UWP apps around (to the SD card). There's not much reason to believe this won't be possible on the PC.
Giving away the PC version when buying the Xbox One version like Microsoft did for Quantum Break could keep it alive. Not enough exclusives or too greedy to make that possible?
There's just no chance in hell I'll pay more for a Windows-only game with Microsoft lock-in than the same game which is or might (in the future) be cross platform on Steam or similar. Plus iff I decide to accept an online-only lock-in I want to be looking at a huge discount over the retail version. Also most definitely I will not accept any ads in my games. So far Microsoft has been nothing but a major failure on all those accounts.
Nbody asks for your acceptance, on any platform. Gabe will integrate ANYTHING if it gives him more money, so you`ll be eating the very same ads in Steam. Believing that Steam is any less of a lock-in alone belies a complete lack of understanding what you`ve bought in.
So, basically they're where Steam was years ago. Only far more restrictive. If I wanted this sort of "walled garden" nonsense, why wouldn't I just stick with a console?
There are some positives though. Sandboxing games and win32 apps is a good thing in most cases. Games in particular are pretty good candidates for sandboxing.
If Microsoft gives away the pc version when you buy the console version (something I've been hoping EA would do) that is a positive for me as I also own an xbox one. If microsoft chooses to release xbox exclusives on PC, that's a big win for me as I prefer pc gaming.
All that said - if I had the choice between getting the same game on steam or on the windows store, I'd pick steam. But I also understand why publishers want to use their own stores and I don't really have a problem with that. If it was me, I'd want to use my own store as well. They're making improvements, so hopefully they'll fix some of the obvious feature deficiencies.
I say F#$% ports, Microsoft for Windows 10, and any garbage company that gets overly greedy and tries to control user choice by locking them into crap. Freedom baby. It's everything.
"The Windows Store is also missing the ability to backup games" <- Things like this make this feel more like giving Microsoft more control than giving the users more control...
I will agree with the game sandboxing there. That should make things more complicated for cheaters, which would be great for games with online components.
They do if they went the extra mile to disable automatic updates (something you can't do in all versions of Windows 10) and removed any of the telemetry updates on Windows 7, by running a simple batch script you can find on Google. (Literally, Google "Remove Windows 7 Telemetry Updates".)
So yeah, I do have more privacy and control with Windows 7 as opposed to Windows 10.
It seems as though you feel pretty strongly about software and operating systems if your posts are any indication. I understand that it's easy to get emotionally entangled and loose sight of the perspective that they're merely a combination of parts and software, but I do think it's sort of overly aggressive to attack people in the comments box and call them idiots. There are calmer, more respectful ways of expressing an alternative viewpoint.
Unfortunately, support for Windows 7 will eventually end. Users are at Microsoft's mercy when it comes to security updates and patches. I don't care much for Windows versions that have been released after 7, but there's really no way to escape the inevitable need to move to a new version of an OS.
Even alternatives like Linux have limited useful lives that are dictated by the group behind the OS. Mint and Ubuntu, for example, will provide support for only up to 3 years for their LTS releases which are shorter intervals than Microsoft has historically offered. One of the things I've learned in transitioning off Windows in the messy times following the release of 8 due to the UI and 10 due it being leveraged as a data collection mechanism is that no matter your OS, you have to eventually move to a new version. Of course, alternatives like Linux are essentially free so the upgrade process doesn't come with any financial burden, but there are other caveats and gotchas that make it just as un-fun to hop from say Mint 14 to Mint 17.3.
All I'm seeing is what UWP games can't do, with no compelling reasons to use them over Steam. Lack of modding ability is the killer that leaves the platform DOA. We have PCs not consoles dammit.
Oh, muh mods "argument", as if target audience cares about any of it. Sure, playing Brutal Doom is nice, but you`re severely deluding yourself if you think it has any penetration outside of the ultrahardcore fans niche.
When I went to LAN parties, admittedly some years ago, me and all the other hundreds of people where only playing modded games. Like some Unreal Tournament mod, Counter Srike mod, Half-Life mod, Battlefield mod or similar. I understand the present online pc games might be more console-like in that they are more polished, closed off and whatever. But it's certainly a valid argument.
LAN party is an hardcore event by definition, makes sense to find hardcore people inside. Ask yourself, how many normies you know will even bother with graphical settings? And modding ofter requires much more than clicking inside a menu.
I`m not saying it`s bad in any way, but let`s be realistic about the place it has.
I hope somewhere in MS land there is a whiteboard which has a list of all the features they are going to add over the next 3 years. I also hope somewhere close there is a management team that doesn't baulk for at least 3 years and keeps going even if take up is slow.
It will take awhile MS, but if you reach feature parity and then surpass it... I think you will have takers.
Right now though. Its not the best value proposition.
never had tearing in my life, I was never able to notice the difference between V-sync and no v-sync, except for the heat produced by the GPU when on certain menus. I guess I was lucky?
For some people tearing is actually MUCH better than being capped at 144 fps, which is (incidentally) also one of the main reasons why I keep G-Sync disabled. Yes you do not ever get to see more than a part of any single frame rendered, but the reduced rendering pipeline backpressure results in the minimization of input lag (as well as absolute frametime variance). For online gaming, this is mostly irrelivant, but for people like me, who are prone to motion sickness (only when gaming; not in the "real world"), it really does help to make games much more playable.
The biggest issue I have with Windows 10 (with regards to gaming) however, is that I cannot use fullscreen exclusive mode. For one, the WDM is absolutely TERRIBLE at handling very high frame rates without introducing excessive frametime variance, since it is designed to be used with 60Hz refresh rates and (perhaps even more importantly) it gives ALL running processes a slice of the compositing time, if they request it (such as adverts, update notifications, badly written apps that draw to the screen even when they don't have focus, etc.). Also, some apps just don't work as well in borderless fullscreen mode, such as when using SVP -> Reclock -> MadVR to watch some TV.
Yes DirectX12 is cool, but it just doesn't have enough pull for me to upgrade to a modern OS, designed for multitasking and being connected to the internet for extended periods of time.
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plopke - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
1)I still have lot of trust issues to overcome after the HORRIBLE windows live gaming debacle2) Origin , Uplay , Steam their launch was very far from perfect but many many many years ago , to launch a new game store and miss these kind of features, i am kinda baffled , can you install games already on a other partition?
3) and maby i am wrong here but the most EXPENSIVE PC game store ever? 69.99 euro for Quantum break/Tomb raider THOSE ARE(VERY EXPENSIVE) CONSOLE prices for the base game???? What does this store offer over gog , humble bundle , retail , steam , uplay , origin ,.....
DigitalFreak - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
If you want Quantum Break, you can only get it from the Windows store. For that reason alone I'm skipping it.jasonelmore - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
1: yeah they could create a legacy server that does nothing but authenticate so people with those Games for Windows Live titles can at least play them and save their game.2: The store is integrated into the OS. One things UWP can do is give away games for free OR as part of a promo (buy xbox, get pc for free deal) Steam cant do that. UWP is vertically integrated with the OS and 10 years from now, it will be offering features steam and origin simply cannot pull off due to "vertical integration". Steam didnt have the ability to install games on a different drive for 3 years. I'm betting microsoft integrates most of the wanted features much faster.
3) these titles are brand new and AAA at that, and even if they were on steam, they would not be on sale for at least 6 months. Your getting punished by your country's poor currency value and VAT. This is all do to your goverment. Should developers take less because your government is greedy? hardly.
azrael- - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Yet despite all your points UWP applications can only be purchased in the Windows Store. Why would I ever want to restrict myself to only ever being able to buy from one place?Also, your douchebaggery comments about the Euro are most unwelcome. I'm going out on a limb here and assume you're American. If so, you'd know that it was the US (or rather US companies) which was more or less solely responsible for tanking the world economy back in 2008. But that's a whole different kettle of fish...
althaz - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Most games on the market are only available via one online store. Valve's games (and thousands of others) are exclusive to Steam. EA's are exclusive to Origin. Ubisoft games pretend to be available via Steam...but they aren't really (they all still require uPlay, which remains horrifically broken).fanofanand - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Yeah I'm sure the excessive social spending beyond revenue received by countries like Greece, Spain etc. had nothing to do with their own problems. Everything is the fault of big bad evil 'Murica. Nice try Azrael.plopke - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
These prices have nothing to do with VAT/country , most AAA PC game in the European market are 49.99 - 59.99 euro on steam(which is most of the time already the most expensive route) , on retail and different chains you can quiet often -10% so 45-55 euro , some developer sell games cheaper in parts of Europe but since it is a European open market it legal to get copies from there so thats way you sometimes can get AAA PC games - legal for just below 40 euro on the European market.If these games had some season pass or bundle included into them It would make sense. If not well, Microsoft is extremely inefficient with their business , they trying to protect their console game prices or they absolutely clueless about the market situation. In all 3 cases it make their store look stupid.
Lolimaster - Friday, May 13, 2016 - link
Please, this is Microsoft.The one that was also "vertically" integrated in the mobile business sector with the PDA's and Windows Mobile way before "smartphones" existed. Where are they now? Pretty much a comic relief with Windows 10 Mobile.
JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
With Windows 10 being shoved down our throats I think most of us are looking to go Linux. As more and more games are made for it I would be happy to swap over my 12 gaming PCs. (My basement is a LAN for friends). I realize I am the exception, most users have a single desktop - however I'm a true enthusiast and most enthusiasts like myself build PCs for at least everyone in their family. As it is my girlfriend's mom uses Google apps for her job now as they've shied from Microsoft as well. I work for the government, and suspect that they are very close cohorts with M$...Gigaplex - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
"can you install games already on a other partition?"I doubt it. I'm also pretty sure that these are installed on a per-user basis, so if you've got family members that play the same game, you're going to have to install it multiple times.
MrSpadge - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Even on Win 10 Phone you can easily move the installed UWP apps around (to the SD card). There's not much reason to believe this won't be possible on the PC.mneill - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
I can't remember if they turned the feature back on or not but it is there.Go to setting -> Storage -> Save Locations
If its not turned on by redstone *July they are off their rockers
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
You can set where 'apps' are installed from within Windows 10.Lolimaster - Friday, May 13, 2016 - link
Just play them on youtube.LordanSS - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
Yes.... after all my problems with Windows Games Live, it will be a very, very, very long time before I get anywhere close to this.It's good that they're addressing issues, but they still have a long way to go.
HomeworldFound - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
Giving away the PC version when buying the Xbox One version like Microsoft did for Quantum Break could keep it alive. Not enough exclusives or too greedy to make that possible?Daniel Egger - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
There's just no chance in hell I'll pay more for a Windows-only game with Microsoft lock-in than the same game which is or might (in the future) be cross platform on Steam or similar. Plus iff I decide to accept an online-only lock-in I want to be looking at a huge discount over the retail version. Also most definitely I will not accept any ads in my games. So far Microsoft has been nothing but a major failure on all those accounts.Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Nbody asks for your acceptance, on any platform. Gabe will integrate ANYTHING if it gives him more money, so you`ll be eating the very same ads in Steam.Believing that Steam is any less of a lock-in alone belies a complete lack of understanding what you`ve bought in.
kaesden - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
i'll stick to steam, thanks, but no thanks.kondor999 - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
So, basically they're where Steam was years ago. Only far more restrictive. If I wanted this sort of "walled garden" nonsense, why wouldn't I just stick with a console?andrewaggb - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
There are some positives though. Sandboxing games and win32 apps is a good thing in most cases. Games in particular are pretty good candidates for sandboxing.If Microsoft gives away the pc version when you buy the console version (something I've been hoping EA would do) that is a positive for me as I also own an xbox one. If microsoft chooses to release xbox exclusives on PC, that's a big win for me as I prefer pc gaming.
All that said - if I had the choice between getting the same game on steam or on the windows store, I'd pick steam. But I also understand why publishers want to use their own stores and I don't really have a problem with that. If it was me, I'd want to use my own store as well. They're making improvements, so hopefully they'll fix some of the obvious feature deficiencies.
JoeMonco - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
The only valid point you made is this benefits only Microsoft and no one else. Thanks, but no thanks.nathanddrews - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
I don't really see the need for sandboxing games. What do we gain? We already know that we lose an awful lot.Murloc - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
I bet trainers won't work anymore either. I can't finish some games without cheating because I get bored too fast.JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
I say F#$% ports, Microsoft for Windows 10, and any garbage company that gets overly greedy and tries to control user choice by locking them into crap. Freedom baby. It's everything.stephenbrooks - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
"The Windows Store is also missing the ability to backup games" <- Things like this make this feel more like giving Microsoft more control than giving the users more control...LordanSS - Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - link
I will agree with the game sandboxing there. That should make things more complicated for cheaters, which would be great for games with online components.SecuROM debacle anyone?
JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
I was there. DRM free or bust.Notmyusualid - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
As long as Steam & Windows 7 work, and Win 10 is a privacy nightmare, they can announce what they please.I ain't moving.
Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
There are still idiots who believe they have more "privacy" under 7?Not to mention gaben mining the shit of whatever you do with the client.
Murloc - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
what do you really do with the client except opening the game?JoeyJoJo123 - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
They do if they went the extra mile to disable automatic updates (something you can't do in all versions of Windows 10) and removed any of the telemetry updates on Windows 7, by running a simple batch script you can find on Google. (Literally, Google "Remove Windows 7 Telemetry Updates".)So yeah, I do have more privacy and control with Windows 7 as opposed to Windows 10.
JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
Ditto.BrokenCrayons - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
It seems as though you feel pretty strongly about software and operating systems if your posts are any indication. I understand that it's easy to get emotionally entangled and loose sight of the perspective that they're merely a combination of parts and software, but I do think it's sort of overly aggressive to attack people in the comments box and call them idiots. There are calmer, more respectful ways of expressing an alternative viewpoint.JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
Lose vs loose. Google it.JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
You're kidding, right?BrokenCrayons - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Unfortunately, support for Windows 7 will eventually end. Users are at Microsoft's mercy when it comes to security updates and patches. I don't care much for Windows versions that have been released after 7, but there's really no way to escape the inevitable need to move to a new version of an OS.Even alternatives like Linux have limited useful lives that are dictated by the group behind the OS. Mint and Ubuntu, for example, will provide support for only up to 3 years for their LTS releases which are shorter intervals than Microsoft has historically offered. One of the things I've learned in transitioning off Windows in the messy times following the release of 8 due to the UI and 10 due it being leveraged as a data collection mechanism is that no matter your OS, you have to eventually move to a new version. Of course, alternatives like Linux are essentially free so the upgrade process doesn't come with any financial burden, but there are other caveats and gotchas that make it just as un-fun to hop from say Mint 14 to Mint 17.3.
JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
"Unfortunately, support for Windows 7 will eventually end." Yes...in four years...r3loaded - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
All I'm seeing is what UWP games can't do, with no compelling reasons to use them over Steam. Lack of modding ability is the killer that leaves the platform DOA. We have PCs not consoles dammit.Gigaplex - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
The Xbox One is a console and it runs UWP games.Michael Bay - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Oh, muh mods "argument", as if target audience cares about any of it. Sure, playing Brutal Doom is nice, but you`re severely deluding yourself if you think it has any penetration outside of the ultrahardcore fans niche.Marlowe - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
When I went to LAN parties, admittedly some years ago, me and all the other hundreds of people where only playing modded games. Like some Unreal Tournament mod, Counter Srike mod, Half-Life mod, Battlefield mod or similar. I understand the present online pc games might be more console-like in that they are more polished, closed off and whatever. But it's certainly a valid argument.Michael Bay - Thursday, May 12, 2016 - link
LAN party is an hardcore event by definition, makes sense to find hardcore people inside.Ask yourself, how many normies you know will even bother with graphical settings? And modding ofter requires much more than clicking inside a menu.
I`m not saying it`s bad in any way, but let`s be realistic about the place it has.
doggface - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
I hope somewhere in MS land there is a whiteboard which has a list of all the features they are going to add over the next 3 years. I also hope somewhere close there is a management team that doesn't baulk for at least 3 years and keeps going even if take up is slow.It will take awhile MS, but if you reach feature parity and then surpass it... I think you will have takers.
Right now though. Its not the best value proposition.
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Cool! Another options for all of us and at least MS are listening to complaints.MrSpadge - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
Yeah, finally we can have tearing again! Missed it so much.. didn't look like a PC game without it ;)Murloc - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
never had tearing in my life, I was never able to notice the difference between V-sync and no v-sync, except for the heat produced by the GPU when on certain menus.I guess I was lucky?
Xenonite - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
For some people tearing is actually MUCH better than being capped at 144 fps, which is (incidentally) also one of the main reasons why I keep G-Sync disabled.Yes you do not ever get to see more than a part of any single frame rendered, but the reduced rendering pipeline backpressure results in the minimization of input lag (as well as absolute frametime variance). For online gaming, this is mostly irrelivant, but for people like me, who are prone to motion sickness (only when gaming; not in the "real world"), it really does help to make games much more playable.
The biggest issue I have with Windows 10 (with regards to gaming) however, is that I cannot use fullscreen exclusive mode.
For one, the WDM is absolutely TERRIBLE at handling very high frame rates without introducing excessive frametime variance, since it is designed to be used with 60Hz refresh rates and (perhaps even more importantly) it gives ALL running processes a slice of the compositing time, if they request it (such as adverts, update notifications, badly written apps that draw to the screen even when they don't have focus, etc.).
Also, some apps just don't work as well in borderless fullscreen mode, such as when using SVP -> Reclock -> MadVR to watch some TV.
Yes DirectX12 is cool, but it just doesn't have enough pull for me to upgrade to a modern OS, designed for multitasking and being connected to the internet for extended periods of time.
JonnyDough - Friday, May 20, 2016 - link
People crack me up. They watch as freedoms (like consumer choice) is stripped away and their only qualm is that their tv could be bigger.