Nah, I highly doubt there is a technical limitation, it's more of a budget and workforce issue, they can only work on so many designs/projects at once and decided to push off Carrizo on the desktop until AM4.
There already is desktop carrizo, it just doesn't have iGPU enabled. And thats for a good reason, because carrizo has a separate powerplane for iGPU, while fm2+ does not.
It's the same info it leaked before, just more complete. I was expecting AM4 and Bristol Ridge announcement, or at least some reviews of the new parts...
The 7890K seems to expensive ($164.99), the difference with the 7870K is too big, even with the Wraith cooler (the 8370 Wraith edition only cost 10USD more), and we don't even know the base CPU and GPU frequencies. 900-960MHz would be nice for the GPU, but probably is 866MHz also, because it says 1TFlops combined, and that is what it needs with the CPU at 4.3GHz.
The most interesting parts are:
7860K ($117.99), a full enabled Kaveri (Godavari actually) with high frequencies, unlocked, the 125W cooler and a 65W TDP, seems the best option for both OC or silent/fresh USFF PCs. Lest hope the 65W TDP doesn't limit the APU by throttling to much (Kaveri at 4GHz needs 125W in order to not throttling the GPU while fully using the CPU).
880K ($94.99), best budget option for discrete GPUs, it should do 4.5~4.7GHz, and now with the stock cooler maybe is enough, not need for an aftermarket cooler.
845 ($69.99), the Carrizo based one with four Excavator cores. It's a locked part pitifully, so more than 4GHz with a light blck OC is not guaranted. But is a great option for SFF PCs at stock setings with a 370, 960, or similar cards..
Any more than $100 for one of those APUs is too much. Intel's I3-6100 is $130 and all of the A-series APUs are significantly less powerful in CPU tasks. Now that Intel's iGPU is competitive price is really the only thing AMD can compete on.
The 710 is $41 for the 1GB model (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9S... $48 for the 2GB one. Couldn't find any benchmark but between an A10-7890K and a Core i3+NV 710 I would go for the iGPU of the 7890K any day. I use for work a laptop with Core i5 with Nvidia and I can't remember having as many BSODs since Windows XP era: the drivers just suck and the switching between one and the other, at least for me, is not so seamless. That said, it remains to be seen that the core i3+NV 710 is actually faster than the 7890K.
Yeah I'm with Anato. If you're going to talk discrete graphics, now you're bringing in the Athlons... for the cost of an i3 6100 and a $40 GPU you could get an 860K and a 2GB R7 360.
I mean heck the $40 710 1GB is DDR3. You'll get massive gains going to something with 2GB of GDDR5 and more crunching power, and if you can squeeze that into the same budget by going with a different platform so be it.
I agree. Basically in the <$100 segment, for performance/$, the only Intel CPU worth investing in over an AMD is the Pentium G3258, which as many people know, has a lot of Microcode compatibility issues with Windows 7 KB3064209, and Windows 10 can't even install on a G3258 system unless you disable a core and manually remove the Intel_MC update file. Basically a pain in the ass.
AMD Athlon X4's are just incredible performance per dollar in the <$100 segment. Many easily match an i3. The problem is the aging platform (no native USB 3.0, PCIe 2.0, etc) but I still occasionally put them together for people who are on a tight budget. The difference between building an AMD Athlon X4 system opposed to an Intel i3 can be almost $100 (because AMD boards are also significantly cheaper) and that can be reinvested in a GPU or nicer monitor.
Actually you're even selling FM2+ short. FM2+ has PCIe 3.0 support. :D It's processor dependent. I think all of the FM2+ models have 3.0 support. If you drop an older FM2 chip into the FM2+ platform, you only get 2.0. But any FM2+ chipset with an FM2+ chip (such as 860K) has PCIe 3.0. Not that it makes MUCH difference until you get to fairly high-power graphics cards, and we are talking budget. But it's nice to have and might make a couple percentage points difference even on a more affordable GPU, plus or minus depending on the game.
Similarly, almost all of them have some native USB 3.0 ports. How many depends on the chipset. A58 has zero native 3.0. But I'd skip that one anyway. A68H is my personal favorite for budget boards, still available SUPER cheap and it has 2 native USB 3.0 ports. A78 and A88X both have 4 native 3.0 ports. All of the above are often bolstered by third-party chips for additional ports, and even non-native USB 3.0 (Asmedia) is well supported by Win10 and substantially faster than 2.0.
Hm, that doesn't look true to me. I'm comparing prices on PCPP right now, and it doesn't look equitable for the i3 in terms of price.
The GPU on these APUs is about equivalent to an AMD R7 250 or, if you prefer, an Nvidia GT 740 that's been slightly OC'd at the factory. If you add up the i3-6100 (122 USD on Amazon for me right now) + the cheapest equivalent GPU you can find (XFX Radeon R7 250 @ 68 USD on SuperBiiz), you come up with a total of 189.99 before shipping. Obviously the AMD part will ship for less than those two things combined, and it has a generally lower cost even at the base MSRP of 165 USD. In general, FM2+ boards are less expensive than 1151, but then the RAM needed to really make this APU shine is generally more expensive than RAM you'd put in a budget gamer 1151 system, so I'll call that part of the equation even.
The APU vs the i3 + discrete GPU wins on overall power efficiency, features a better CPU cooler, and obviously will fit in a smaller build if need be, so it's not without it's perks. $165 is indeed too high for the budget gamer segment, which could usually do better with an 870K (~70 USD) + R7 250 OC edition, but it's not a ridiculous price to ask if you are trying to avoid discrete GPU.
Except Intels IGPUs are garbage for anything other than office tasks. I have so many issues with driver compatibility on my HTPC machines that run IGPUs. Glitches on Unity based graphics, Glitches with Kodi, HDMI not initializing properly requiring a reboot almost everytime I turn on my TV connected to it.... Among other iritations. None of these problems are present on my AMD integrated graphics.
It's true that Intel's iGPUs are catching up, but there is still a significant difference in compute and higher resolution performance. The only area where Intel has caught up is with systems that have eDRAM. AMD's integrated graphics still have an edge.
Excavator in current Carrizo form isn't designed to clock really high. Hence why they released Excavator on desktop as the 835/845. If they had an unlocked one though I'd still like to tinker with it just for the heck of it. IPC gains are definitely there.
How on Earth does the X4 880K comes clocked 100MHz lower than A10-7890K, lacks the iGPU, yet still rated at the same TDP? The 100MHz is nothing, but you'd think the iGPU must account for something.
I 2nd your question; Since the new APU and CPU have just about the same CPU core clockspeeds, and the same TDP, I suppose the APU will throttle down the CPU core clocks if the GPU is heavily utilized. Or it's let it go beyond the TDP if temps are fine?
The TDP for AMD and Intel refer more to the power budget, not the power usage. That means the Athlon can likely hit peak speeds longer before hitting thermal limits.
Not to mention that they have specific TDP categories. These are ranges, not exact numbers. Because a part is listed as 95W or 65W doesn't necessarily mean it will hit 95W or 65W, it just means its less than or equal to it's category and greater then the next lower category. So a 95W part can be anywhere from 66W to 95W. a 65W part is anywhere from 46W to 65W.
Therefore the 7890K might be a 95W part that hits 95W, but the 880K might be a 95W CATEGORY part, but it maxes out at 75W. So they can't call it a 65W part because it's above 65W, but they don't want to complicate the market by having more categories like 75W, 85W and so on.
Binning. Sure the iGPU isnt working but its still using power just being there, and typically since its considered partially defective silicon, they feel that they would probably need to run more voltage through it just to keep it stable. The higher voltage part isnt necessarily true for every chip since im sure there are loads that have no issues running at much lower voltage (and that would probably still have a decent GPU if it weren't physically disabled). But they hedge their bets, and they also have TDP tiers. Anything over 65 Watts is automatically a 95 Watt part, even though it may only use like 68 Watts.
These APUs are so lackluster right now, but given a few years, i really see potential for a good apu to provide console level graphics at a reasonable price. A zen + polaris + DDR4 apu would be so great...
Checkmate Intel. AMD A10-7890K at 4.3 GHZ and 12 cores literally blows Intel out of the water. And that's just CPU performance. Look at GPU performance and nobody will run Intel anymore.
The sad reality is, that intels iGPUs are very strong (especially with skylake). Even HD530 can kinda compete with midrange apus. Bring HD550 with edram in the mix and it blows any amd apu easily.
Even the i3 Skylake 3.9G 65w - $169 which is what you claim competes with it is still more expensive by quite a margin, and the i3 is only a dual core.
As a CPU, it is very well known that the *dozer derivatives don't stand the chance against Intel: that's why AMD usually offers 4 cores at the price of 2 ... The iGPU however is a different story and it is still much in favor of AMD, even VS SKylake. AMD has a price/perf ratio which is noticeably better than Intel, as they have to sell cheap, due to poor CPU performance and relatively high power consumption, but unless you have extremely demanding tasks on the CPU which are not multi-threaded, AMD is already a decent option, in my opinion.
I own A10 CPU (mobile though) and I am extremely satisfied. I use Core i5 for the office, but when you throw at it something that keeps the GPU busy, it chokes easily. The A10 is still way faster than you will ever need for everyday tasks, but add an iGPU which can get you through most games at decent settings, on a reasonable budget. Your mileage may vary, but I always recommend it for home-users who may occasionally game.
It's a shame that so many laptop manufacturers are building Carrizo laptops that only support single-channel memory, which cuts the performance of the iGPU in half. It's a total bummer to get an AMD system with a great APU, for a great price, and not get the gaming performance that it could/should provide. Are these manufactures being paid by Intel to cripple AMD APU-powered laptops?
"Steamroller brings no significant reduction in L2/L3 cache latencies. According to AMD, they’ve isolated the reason for the unusually high L3 latency in the Bulldozer architecture, however fixing it isn’t a top priority. "
-The 2011 article is still relevant unfortunately.
I agree it can be confusing. To be fair, though, AMD is calling them "Compute Cores" and not Central Processing Unit cores.
From a marketing and PR campaign, it's important to help people understand HSA. The CPU will hand off compute tasks to the GPU. Getting people (and more importantly developers) to understand this is critical for AMD.
With a $70 difference between the 880K and the A10-7890K, why not just get a 880K and a $70 graphics card!?
*i just spent 20 minutes looking for something decent around $70 and.. NOTHING.. $100 and up is the only way to go. Starting with either a R7 360 or 750ti
Long -> Short, go with a Pentium G4400 / 750 ti and it might come out a few buck cheaper than a A10-7890K and MUCH MUCH faster :/ but just it little louder lol
FYI, im still rocking a [email protected] from when it came out 3+ years ago... good enough still
I mean, even taking the above with a bucket full of salt, the 845 and a 750ti strikes me as a more compelling option than a $170 APU.
The note that AMD is timing aggressively binned releases as media fodder looks spot on. Keep review sites talking about you, keep consumers talking about you. Saturate your market with "new" chips and gather all the promotion you can while shoveling your pre-clearance merch onto retail space.
I still think my personal path would be to wait and get in on the AM4 ground floor with Bristol Ridge (or the Athlon successor?) and upgrade through Zen, if for nothing else than the upgraded chipset.
I know I'm not the first to say this, but major bummer that the new Athlon part isn't Carrizo. Early reviews of the 845 seem very positive, but low-ish clocks and lack of unlocked multi make it a dubious value for power-users on a budget. 4Ghz -K Carrizo would be exciting but yet another Kaveri part... isn't. Especially priced the same as the A10-7700K and FX-8320E.
Riiight, care to show me the $140 Intel CPU that can compete with the FX-8320E I paid $138 for? Care to show us ANY Intel CPU that can compete on both CPU and GPU performance with the AMD APUs at their current prices? Care to show us an Intel chip that competes with the Athlon quads in the under $100 segment?
Because I'll be more than happy to take the Pepsi challenge and compare the AMD system I built for $550 to anything you can put together from Intel at the same price point as I have ZERO doubt I'll curbstomp it, why? Because thanks to the savings by going with AMD I was able to at that price to 1.- Buy an octocore, 2.- Get 16Gb of RAM, 3.- An R9 280 3Gb for graphics, 4.- A nice gamer board that supports triple CF and 32Gb of RAM, along with 5.- A 120GB SSD for boot AND a 3TB HDD for storage.
So lets see what you'll get for the same money and we can all have a good laugh. The last one that tried? Tried to claim his i3 granny chip and 750ti would be competitive, only to lose so badly in the benches it was like the Broncos facing off against a junior high football team.
This is great that we have a single chip running at 1.02 TFlops. Which I can see as 1TFlop effective, especially if it was paired with some fast memory.
It would likely run at its best crossfired with a R7 250 to maximize performance.
If we compare that to the current consoles, this chip is not very far behind, especially so if fast memory and an R7 250 are added into the system. It becomes an even more interesting comparison if this chip were running overclocked at 5Ghz with a GPU clock of 1000Mhz along with fast 2133+ RAM and with a crossfired R7 250 also at 1000Mhz.
I hope AnandTech puts this new chip through its paces, including running it overclocked and crossfired with some fast memory
These CPUs are such a waste of time/effort. The Godavari CPUs were a bunch of nonsense and these are even more nonsense. The 7870K offered little over the 7850K but at a higher price. Now it has a new cooler, big whoop. The 7890K offers pretty much nothing the 7870K didn't offer either, but now at an even higher price! Seriously $165 USD for something that's not really better than the years old 7850K other than the cooler and a few hundred Mhz? And they're all OCable so I don't see how that's a big deal either since AMD CPUs don't really OC that well to begin with given they already push their TDP. AMD could have given the GPU a boost with more SPs at least, but nope it's pretty much just rehash the same thing, throw in a better cooler, and call it $165. Ugh. Howabout just eliminate the 7850K and 7870K and just replace with the 7890K at the same price...you know like Intel does. I mean Haswell Refresh (as an example) was pretty much the same--100Mhz or so boost on models across the board but at least there Intel discontinued the old ones and put in the new ones at the same price point.
Of course I guess AMD can't improve the iGPU because these processors struggle to stay within TDP, at 95W...as we all know. There's simply no way for them to actually improve on the 7850K in this architecture and wattage, but there sure seems to be ways to *market* "improvements". Still, they could have gone to 125W TDP and increased the iGPU performance.
Anyone buying FM2 should just stick to a $115 7850K and OC. It's $50 cheaper and that money should buy a cooler that's better than Wraith anyway, plus leave you with money left over. But funny, even the 7850K is not even worth buying anymore with all the other options out there now (including somoe mobos that can OC Skylake i3s). AMD should just forget about this foolishness altogether, release Zen and uh..."Bulldoze" this crap into a hole once and for all.
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nathanddrews - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
AMD, you're killin' me, smalls. Where's my desktop Carrizo with GPU? :(hojnikb - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
You'll have to wait for AM4 to have that. FM2+ just can't support carrizo's iGPU, thats why we only see athlons based on carrizo.extide - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Nah, I highly doubt there is a technical limitation, it's more of a budget and workforce issue, they can only work on so many designs/projects at once and decided to push off Carrizo on the desktop until AM4.hojnikb - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
There already is desktop carrizo, it just doesn't have iGPU enabled. And thats for a good reason, because carrizo has a separate powerplane for iGPU, while fm2+ does not.T1beriu - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
Nah, he's right.nandnandnand - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
If it's not Zen, don't waste your money on it.nathanddrews - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
By Zen it will be too late.misuspita - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
uuuuu... I see what you did there!TinoArg - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
It's the same info it leaked before, just more complete. I was expecting AM4 and Bristol Ridge announcement, or at least some reviews of the new parts...The 7890K seems to expensive ($164.99), the difference with the 7870K is too big, even with the Wraith cooler (the 8370 Wraith edition only cost 10USD more), and we don't even know the base CPU and GPU frequencies. 900-960MHz would be nice for the GPU, but probably is 866MHz also, because it says 1TFlops combined, and that is what it needs with the CPU at 4.3GHz.
The most interesting parts are:
7860K ($117.99), a full enabled Kaveri (Godavari actually) with high frequencies, unlocked, the 125W cooler and a 65W TDP, seems the best option for both OC or silent/fresh USFF PCs. Lest hope the 65W TDP doesn't limit the APU by throttling to much (Kaveri at 4GHz needs 125W in order to not throttling the GPU while fully using the CPU).
880K ($94.99), best budget option for discrete GPUs, it should do 4.5~4.7GHz, and now with the stock cooler maybe is enough, not need for an aftermarket cooler.
845 ($69.99), the Carrizo based one with four Excavator cores. It's a locked part pitifully, so more than 4GHz with a light blck OC is not guaranted. But is a great option for SFF PCs at stock setings with a 370, 960, or similar cards..
Flunk - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Any more than $100 for one of those APUs is too much. Intel's I3-6100 is $130 and all of the A-series APUs are significantly less powerful in CPU tasks. Now that Intel's iGPU is competitive price is really the only thing AMD can compete on.yankeeDDL - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
You are joking, right?The A10-7870 is about 50% faster than the i3 6100 with iGPU.
Here are some benchmarks for Battlefield4, GTAV, Dirt rally:
http://www.clubedohardware.com.br/artigos/teste-do...
Skylake is not bad at all and a huge step forward compared to Haswell, but it is still no match for AMD on iGPU and gaming on a budget, in general.
plonk420 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
just throw in that $30 Nvidia GPU (710 was it?) and your i3 is good to goyankeeDDL - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
The 710 is $41 for the 1GB model (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9S... $48 for the 2GB one.Couldn't find any benchmark but between an A10-7890K and a Core i3+NV 710 I would go for the iGPU of the 7890K any day.
I use for work a laptop with Core i5 with Nvidia and I can't remember having as many BSODs since Windows XP era: the drivers just suck and the switching between one and the other, at least for me, is not so seamless. That said, it remains to be seen that the core i3+NV 710 is actually faster than the 7890K.
Anato - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
If you are going discrete then you should compare to Athlon X4 880K $94.99. With price difference of $70 you could get Geforce 730 or Radeon R7 250.Lolimaster - Thursday, March 3, 2016 - link
Both are worse than the igpu of the A10, only the R7 250 with GDDR5 is actually faster.Alexvrb - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
Yeah I'm with Anato. If you're going to talk discrete graphics, now you're bringing in the Athlons... for the cost of an i3 6100 and a $40 GPU you could get an 860K and a 2GB R7 360.I mean heck the $40 710 1GB is DDR3. You'll get massive gains going to something with 2GB of GDDR5 and more crunching power, and if you can squeeze that into the same budget by going with a different platform so be it.
Samus - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
I agree. Basically in the <$100 segment, for performance/$, the only Intel CPU worth investing in over an AMD is the Pentium G3258, which as many people know, has a lot of Microcode compatibility issues with Windows 7 KB3064209, and Windows 10 can't even install on a G3258 system unless you disable a core and manually remove the Intel_MC update file. Basically a pain in the ass.AMD Athlon X4's are just incredible performance per dollar in the <$100 segment. Many easily match an i3. The problem is the aging platform (no native USB 3.0, PCIe 2.0, etc) but I still occasionally put them together for people who are on a tight budget. The difference between building an AMD Athlon X4 system opposed to an Intel i3 can be almost $100 (because AMD boards are also significantly cheaper) and that can be reinvested in a GPU or nicer monitor.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
Actually you're even selling FM2+ short. FM2+ has PCIe 3.0 support. :D It's processor dependent. I think all of the FM2+ models have 3.0 support. If you drop an older FM2 chip into the FM2+ platform, you only get 2.0. But any FM2+ chipset with an FM2+ chip (such as 860K) has PCIe 3.0. Not that it makes MUCH difference until you get to fairly high-power graphics cards, and we are talking budget. But it's nice to have and might make a couple percentage points difference even on a more affordable GPU, plus or minus depending on the game.Similarly, almost all of them have some native USB 3.0 ports. How many depends on the chipset. A58 has zero native 3.0. But I'd skip that one anyway. A68H is my personal favorite for budget boards, still available SUPER cheap and it has 2 native USB 3.0 ports. A78 and A88X both have 4 native 3.0 ports. All of the above are often bolstered by third-party chips for additional ports, and even non-native USB 3.0 (Asmedia) is well supported by Win10 and substantially faster than 2.0.
Eschaton - Thursday, March 3, 2016 - link
Hm, that doesn't look true to me. I'm comparing prices on PCPP right now, and it doesn't look equitable for the i3 in terms of price.The GPU on these APUs is about equivalent to an AMD R7 250 or, if you prefer, an Nvidia GT 740 that's been slightly OC'd at the factory. If you add up the i3-6100 (122 USD on Amazon for me right now) + the cheapest equivalent GPU you can find (XFX Radeon R7 250 @ 68 USD on SuperBiiz), you come up with a total of 189.99 before shipping. Obviously the AMD part will ship for less than those two things combined, and it has a generally lower cost even at the base MSRP of 165 USD. In general, FM2+ boards are less expensive than 1151, but then the RAM needed to really make this APU shine is generally more expensive than RAM you'd put in a budget gamer 1151 system, so I'll call that part of the equation even.
The APU vs the i3 + discrete GPU wins on overall power efficiency, features a better CPU cooler, and obviously will fit in a smaller build if need be, so it's not without it's perks. $165 is indeed too high for the budget gamer segment, which could usually do better with an 870K (~70 USD) + R7 250 OC edition, but it's not a ridiculous price to ask if you are trying to avoid discrete GPU.
The Intel 530 iGPU on the best 1151 i3 chips is crap compared to the GPU in these chips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rboqyzYSgqc
Deshi - Tuesday, March 8, 2016 - link
Except Intels IGPUs are garbage for anything other than office tasks. I have so many issues with driver compatibility on my HTPC machines that run IGPUs. Glitches on Unity based graphics, Glitches with Kodi, HDMI not initializing properly requiring a reboot almost everytime I turn on my TV connected to it.... Among other iritations. None of these problems are present on my AMD integrated graphics.drgoodie - Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - link
It's true that Intel's iGPUs are catching up, but there is still a significant difference in compute and higher resolution performance. The only area where Intel has caught up is with systems that have eDRAM. AMD's integrated graphics still have an edge.hojnikb - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
I really wished 880K was an excavator part ;(Alexvrb - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
Excavator in current Carrizo form isn't designed to clock really high. Hence why they released Excavator on desktop as the 835/845. If they had an unlocked one though I'd still like to tinker with it just for the heck of it. IPC gains are definitely there.Maybe on AM4.
bittermann - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
At those prices they should include a motherboard. Just sayin...bug77 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
How on Earth does the X4 880K comes clocked 100MHz lower than A10-7890K, lacks the iGPU, yet still rated at the same TDP? The 100MHz is nothing, but you'd think the iGPU must account for something.danwat1234 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
I 2nd your question;Since the new APU and CPU have just about the same CPU core clockspeeds, and the same TDP, I suppose the APU will throttle down the CPU core clocks if the GPU is heavily utilized. Or it's let it go beyond the TDP if temps are fine?
NeatOman - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
The cooler is much better on the A10-7890K which is the only real improvement AMD has made.jordanclock - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
The TDP for AMD and Intel refer more to the power budget, not the power usage. That means the Athlon can likely hit peak speeds longer before hitting thermal limits.eldakka - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Not to mention that they have specific TDP categories. These are ranges, not exact numbers. Because a part is listed as 95W or 65W doesn't necessarily mean it will hit 95W or 65W, it just means its less than or equal to it's category and greater then the next lower category. So a 95W part can be anywhere from 66W to 95W. a 65W part is anywhere from 46W to 65W.Therefore the 7890K might be a 95W part that hits 95W, but the 880K might be a 95W CATEGORY part, but it maxes out at 75W. So they can't call it a 65W part because it's above 65W, but they don't want to complicate the market by having more categories like 75W, 85W and so on.
artk2219 - Wednesday, March 9, 2016 - link
Binning. Sure the iGPU isnt working but its still using power just being there, and typically since its considered partially defective silicon, they feel that they would probably need to run more voltage through it just to keep it stable. The higher voltage part isnt necessarily true for every chip since im sure there are loads that have no issues running at much lower voltage (and that would probably still have a decent GPU if it weren't physically disabled). But they hedge their bets, and they also have TDP tiers. Anything over 65 Watts is automatically a 95 Watt part, even though it may only use like 68 Watts.milli - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Where's the Athlon X4 845 review?TallestJon96 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
These APUs are so lackluster right now, but given a few years, i really see potential for a good apu to provide console level graphics at a reasonable price. A zen + polaris + DDR4 apu would be so great...cynic783 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Checkmate Intel. AMD A10-7890K at 4.3 GHZ and 12 cores literally blows Intel out of the water. And that's just CPU performance. Look at GPU performance and nobody will run Intel anymore.hojnikb - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
you forgot /sarcasm at the end :)The sad reality is, that intels iGPUs are very strong (especially with skylake). Even HD530 can kinda compete with midrange apus. Bring HD550 with edram in the mix and it blows any amd apu easily.
dsraa - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
You forgot that AMD chips are almost half the price. Look at the price differences on Newegg.AMD A10-7850 3.7G 95w- $119
Intel i5 Skylake 6600 3.2G 91w - $254
Even the i3 Skylake 3.9G 65w - $169 which is what you claim competes with it is still more expensive by quite a margin, and the i3 is only a dual core.
stardude82 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
A10 are 2 "module" and Kaveri still has awful latency issues.Sorry, as a CPU the A10 can barely keep up with last gen i5.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1497?vs=119...
stardude82 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Correction, last gen i3.yankeeDDL - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
As a CPU, it is very well known that the *dozer derivatives don't stand the chance against Intel: that's why AMD usually offers 4 cores at the price of 2 ...The iGPU however is a different story and it is still much in favor of AMD, even VS SKylake.
AMD has a price/perf ratio which is noticeably better than Intel, as they have to sell cheap, due to poor CPU performance and relatively high power consumption, but unless you have extremely demanding tasks on the CPU which are not multi-threaded, AMD is already a decent option, in my opinion.
I own A10 CPU (mobile though) and I am extremely satisfied. I use Core i5 for the office, but when you throw at it something that keeps the GPU busy, it chokes easily. The A10 is still way faster than you will ever need for everyday tasks, but add an iGPU which can get you through most games at decent settings, on a reasonable budget. Your mileage may vary, but I always recommend it for home-users who may occasionally game.
crosenfi69 - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
It's a shame that so many laptop manufacturers are building Carrizo laptops that only support single-channel memory, which cuts the performance of the iGPU in half. It's a total bummer to get an AMD system with a great APU, for a great price, and not get the gaming performance that it could/should provide. Are these manufactures being paid by Intel to cripple AMD APU-powered laptops?cynic783 - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
"Are these manufactures being paid by Intel to cripple AMD APU-powered laptops?"Yes. This is the only explanation I can think of.
silverblue - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
What latency issues? Please provide a link if you have one.stardude82 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/100583-analyz...Beany2013 - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Article date: "October 24, 2011"I'll just leave that there.
WackyWRZ - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
So here we're talking about Kaveri (Steamroller) which is a derivative of Bulldozer. According to Anand's article (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its..."Steamroller brings no significant reduction in L2/L3 cache latencies. According to AMD, they’ve isolated the reason for the unusually high L3 latency in the Bulldozer architecture, however fixing it isn’t a top priority. "
-The 2011 article is still relevant unfortunately.
WackyWRZ - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
- Fixed Link: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its...Oxford Guy - Friday, March 11, 2016 - link
I thought these chips don't even have L3.[email protected] - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
Wow. 12 CPU cores. Am I living in 2018?KateH - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
The "combining x86-64 and GPU cores" thing is super misleading, and I wish AMD wouldn't do it :(I did have a workstation for a bit with a 12-core Opteron- boy was that thing a treat for Lightroom and Premiere!
drgoodie - Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - link
I agree it can be confusing. To be fair, though, AMD is calling them "Compute Cores" and not Central Processing Unit cores.From a marketing and PR campaign, it's important to help people understand HSA. The CPU will hand off compute tasks to the GPU. Getting people (and more importantly developers) to understand this is critical for AMD.
NeatOman - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
With a $70 difference between the 880K and the A10-7890K, why not just get a 880K and a $70 graphics card!?*i just spent 20 minutes looking for something decent around $70 and.. NOTHING.. $100 and up is the only way to go. Starting with either a R7 360 or 750ti
Long -> Short, go with a Pentium G4400 / 750 ti and it might come out a few buck cheaper than a A10-7890K and MUCH MUCH faster :/ but just it little louder lol
FYI, im still rocking a [email protected] from when it came out 3+ years ago... good enough still
kiinghiipo - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
In the above scenario, I think one should look at the Excavator-based Athlon x4 845 at $70 and a 750ti or R7 360 for a $100, as opposed to the 880k.Benchmarks for the 845 are nigh impossible to dig up, but the AMD subreddit had an optimistic view of it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4700yf/some_...
I mean, even taking the above with a bucket full of salt, the 845 and a 750ti strikes me as a more compelling option than a $170 APU.
The note that AMD is timing aggressively binned releases as media fodder looks spot on. Keep review sites talking about you, keep consumers talking about you. Saturate your market with "new" chips and gather all the promotion you can while shoveling your pre-clearance merch onto retail space.
I still think my personal path would be to wait and get in on the AM4 ground floor with Bristol Ridge (or the Athlon successor?) and upgrade through Zen, if for nothing else than the upgraded chipset.
KateH - Tuesday, March 1, 2016 - link
I know I'm not the first to say this, but major bummer that the new Athlon part isn't Carrizo. Early reviews of the 845 seem very positive, but low-ish clocks and lack of unlocked multi make it a dubious value for power-users on a budget. 4Ghz -K Carrizo would be exciting but yet another Kaveri part... isn't. Especially priced the same as the A10-7700K and FX-8320E.SeanJ76 - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
@AMD....more slow a$$ garbage processors. You're pretty much a dumbass if you use AMD cpus in 2016....bassbeast - Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - link
Riiight, care to show me the $140 Intel CPU that can compete with the FX-8320E I paid $138 for? Care to show us ANY Intel CPU that can compete on both CPU and GPU performance with the AMD APUs at their current prices? Care to show us an Intel chip that competes with the Athlon quads in the under $100 segment?Because I'll be more than happy to take the Pepsi challenge and compare the AMD system I built for $550 to anything you can put together from Intel at the same price point as I have ZERO doubt I'll curbstomp it, why? Because thanks to the savings by going with AMD I was able to at that price to 1.- Buy an octocore, 2.- Get 16Gb of RAM, 3.- An R9 280 3Gb for graphics, 4.- A nice gamer board that supports triple CF and 32Gb of RAM, along with 5.- A 120GB SSD for boot AND a 3TB HDD for storage.
So lets see what you'll get for the same money and we can all have a good laugh. The last one that tried? Tried to claim his i3 granny chip and 750ti would be competitive, only to lose so badly in the benches it was like the Broncos facing off against a junior high football team.
Agnes Philomena - Wednesday, March 2, 2016 - link
OK, but what's the point if the thermal flux horizon index doesn't meet iGpig specs?marcelospera - Thursday, March 3, 2016 - link
I believe the correct TDP of A10-7860K is 95W, right?SeanJ76 - Thursday, March 3, 2016 - link
Skylakes fastest cpu uses 91watts, the 6700k annihilates all AMD processors....The Zen is going to be the biggest flop since Bulldozer!
Oxford Guy - Friday, March 11, 2016 - link
The 5775C beats the 6700K in most games. Oops.KateH - Friday, March 4, 2016 - link
Nope, 7860K is a lower-power part. It includes the "95W class" cooler- but the chip is tuned for a 65W TDP.Agnes Philomena - Thursday, March 3, 2016 - link
GigMonkey out of Aukland tried this, but the Chi-Comms got pissed about bamdwidth compromises and bailed on the contract.Stacking GIN caches don't mesh.
camelNotation - Friday, March 4, 2016 - link
Hi Ian, the table above says the A10-7860k (65W) has a 125W cooler, but it was revealed in a previous article that the 7860K used a 95W cooler.BMNify - Sunday, March 13, 2016 - link
This is great that we have a single chip running at 1.02 TFlops. Which I can see as 1TFlop effective, especially if it was paired with some fast memory.It would likely run at its best crossfired with a R7 250 to maximize performance.
If we compare that to the current consoles, this chip is not very far behind, especially so if fast memory and an R7 250 are added into the system. It becomes an even more interesting comparison if this chip were running overclocked at 5Ghz with a GPU clock of 1000Mhz along with fast 2133+ RAM and with a crossfired R7 250 also at 1000Mhz.
I hope AnandTech puts this new chip through its paces, including running it overclocked and crossfired with some fast memory
ES_Revenge - Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - link
These CPUs are such a waste of time/effort. The Godavari CPUs were a bunch of nonsense and these are even more nonsense. The 7870K offered little over the 7850K but at a higher price. Now it has a new cooler, big whoop. The 7890K offers pretty much nothing the 7870K didn't offer either, but now at an even higher price! Seriously $165 USD for something that's not really better than the years old 7850K other than the cooler and a few hundred Mhz? And they're all OCable so I don't see how that's a big deal either since AMD CPUs don't really OC that well to begin with given they already push their TDP. AMD could have given the GPU a boost with more SPs at least, but nope it's pretty much just rehash the same thing, throw in a better cooler, and call it $165. Ugh. Howabout just eliminate the 7850K and 7870K and just replace with the 7890K at the same price...you know like Intel does. I mean Haswell Refresh (as an example) was pretty much the same--100Mhz or so boost on models across the board but at least there Intel discontinued the old ones and put in the new ones at the same price point.Of course I guess AMD can't improve the iGPU because these processors struggle to stay within TDP, at 95W...as we all know. There's simply no way for them to actually improve on the 7850K in this architecture and wattage, but there sure seems to be ways to *market* "improvements". Still, they could have gone to 125W TDP and increased the iGPU performance.
Anyone buying FM2 should just stick to a $115 7850K and OC. It's $50 cheaper and that money should buy a cooler that's better than Wraith anyway, plus leave you with money left over. But funny, even the 7850K is not even worth buying anymore with all the other options out there now (including somoe mobos that can OC Skylake i3s). AMD should just forget about this foolishness altogether, release Zen and uh..."Bulldoze" this crap into a hole once and for all.