The 4 is less than you imply. A53 at 1.5GHz (they list 1.7GHz http://www.alcatelonetouch.com/global-en/products/... but Qualcomm lists 617 max clocks at 1.5GHz) is not exactly much anymore.This is not 2015, a new cycle is starting. Lenovo has the K32C36 with 5 inch 1080p, SD616 at 107$ (China pricing). 4 would have been slightly more interesting with the P10 and nice with the SD650. 4s is iffy with pentile but at least it is high res and users will not notice that they are getting fake pixels. Ofc gaming will be a bit lacking but not everybody needs fully fluid gaming. TCL has been a bit lacking in design, they do take a step forward here. Rather tall with the speakers and they rip off the Sony button but , at least, they don't take a huge step backwards like LG, HTC and Xioami. The box turning into Cardbaord is something i've been waiting for for a long while, nice to see that it's spreading. The 4 seems to be using a LTPS screen, wonder if they use their own screens since they just started a 6G LTPS line.
The SD625 is second half of the year so will compete with the P20 and others. The P10 goes to 2GHz, has slightly better GPU and is on TSMC's 28HPC+ ,should have nice power consumption. The P20 on 16ff is yet to be fully detailed but rumored specs are 2.3GHz,50% faster GPU over the P10 and ofc lower power. I hope the Mediatek P20 and the 8 cores Spreadtrum on 16ff will be fully detailed at MWC.
The P20 just got announced. Up to 2xLPDDR4 and up to 6GB of RAM but the coolest part is Mali T880MP2 at 900MHz - same as the Kirin 950 and that's a big deal because for the first time an A53 based SoC has a GPU good enough for 1080p gaming.
I've also seen an extremely nice phone by a company (formerly Siemens) back at CES, but didn't hear from them anymore. There are lots of other OEMs building just as nice smartphones.
I'm looking at the spec sheet on these cuties, and damn. The parts (Screen, DAC, audio amplifiers, NAND, modems, antennas, etc...) are all top notch. In a couple of years, these "midrange" SoCs will be plenty fast for the heaviest of power users. So what will a "true" flagship have that these devices don't?? Brand and image? I really wonder how long Apple and Samsung can milk their brands.
In a couple of years, a >$500 "flagship" is going to be a really tough sell. ^This also DESTROYS Samsung's Galaxy A series. Apple should be extremely worried and think much more serious about the (upper)mid-range market (below $500).
High-end phones in the past have been essential for a decent user experience, like computers of old. Phones are now reaching that "fast enough" point, assuming no new revolutionary applications come along to change that (like maybe VR?). Like todays expensive laptops, you'll be paying double the price for a fancier rose-gold chassis, slightly faster chips (for double the price), and otherwise the latest bleeding edge - possibly fad - technology. The high-end will continue to be the playground for manufacturers. But I think the days of mums and dads carrying around >$500 smartphones are coming to an end. Apple may be forced to enter the mid-range, beyond just continuing selling last-gen phones are half the cost.
Today higher res and/or curved screens can still make a difference. Better GPUs are also a big advantage as resolutions are crazy high and games are still poor. Sure you have lots of other less noticeable pluses in high end (that doesn't mean that any phone is worth 700$ and that some brands can't do 2-3 times lower prices for the same device). Tomorrow, foldable screens will make the difference as those will have a high price premium. Beyond that, it doesn't really matter as glasses replace smartphones and more or less everything else with a screen.
Once they make the jump to a proper 2560x1440 RGB Amoled (non-pentile) theres little reason a higer res screen except a better option like 2560x1600 16:10.
With every increase of res there are lots of people saying it's not needed.But yes , if they stop the specs train, sales would be hurt and some are doing that this year,they'll get burned. As for non-Pentile OLED, highly doubt it. They sell 2 subpixels as a pixel now, going RGB would mean they have to advertise the real resolution and they won't do that unless forced to by regulators.
exotic stuff aside, phones are battery limited, and you also have the issues that developers want their games to work on 99% of phones. So if people stop buying pricey phones because midrange is good enough, you won't be able to make use of the higher end GPUs.
GPU's won't be enough even in PC for decades and the smartphone will be long dead before that. There is a long long way to go to photo-realism and resolutions won't stand still. Anyone staying 1440p flat this year will get burned, you get that in 200$ phones already. Then foldable will bring even more pixels.
People have been saying this ("Apple will be forced to charge less") for years now. I guess at SOME point it will become true... People aren't buying iPhones for their specs now; so it seems unlikely that they're going to buy them based on specs in the future.
Saying that phones are fast enough is ridiculous; it's like you've never used a phone. If I have to wait for ANYTHING on a phone it's not fast enough. That's what fast means. On my iPhone 6 I have to wait, for example, on launching an app, or on fingerprinting into the phone. The 6s has both far faster, but app-launching is still noticeable.
And so: What could be added to the 7, the 7S, the 8? Fingerprinting is OK, but prevents fluid interaction with the app suggestions and notifications on the lock-screen. Could fingerprint detection be built into the screen itself? Or use the front-facing camera instead? Stylus support for phones would also be useful --- means we now need that 240Hz pressure sampling screen. And even on an iPad Pro there is *slight* (but visible) lag in drawing very fast with the stylus. Obviously that has to go; and it has to go even when the stylus is configured as an extremely fancy pen that isn't just "drawing" pixels like ink but is modifying the pre-existing pixels in some way (like transforming wherever you draw to look like watercolor). A large part of what you're paying for in a more expensive phone is a better battery, and that won't change for quite a few years. Wireless charging done right (ie identical charger across all Apple devices, ideally without having to place the device EXACTLY on the charger, ideally one charger able to charge multiple devices simultaneously) is coming. Flash is going to be replaced by NVM of some form, like 3D XPoint, which requires both CPU and OS changes for optimal utilization, but promises dramatically faster interaction with files. Waterproof. Better camera (3D? infrared? variable focal plane?) Soft radio (so able to adapt to various specs around the world, and future specs) ...
I think I've described enough there to keep Apple busy for at least three more years --- with, of course, the mid-range trailing those improvements by a few years.
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zeeBomb - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
Both of these phones are so beautiful...I just hope the idol 3 can get a hold of marshmallow.jjj - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
The 4 is less than you imply. A53 at 1.5GHz (they list 1.7GHz http://www.alcatelonetouch.com/global-en/products/... but Qualcomm lists 617 max clocks at 1.5GHz) is not exactly much anymore.This is not 2015, a new cycle is starting.Lenovo has the K32C36 with 5 inch 1080p, SD616 at 107$ (China pricing).
4 would have been slightly more interesting with the P10 and nice with the SD650.
4s is iffy with pentile but at least it is high res and users will not notice that they are getting fake pixels. Ofc gaming will be a bit lacking but not everybody needs fully fluid gaming.
TCL has been a bit lacking in design, they do take a step forward here. Rather tall with the speakers and they rip off the Sony button but , at least, they don't take a huge step backwards like LG, HTC and Xioami.
The box turning into Cardbaord is something i've been waiting for for a long while, nice to see that it's spreading.
The 4 seems to be using a LTPS screen, wonder if they use their own screens since they just started a 6G LTPS line.
zeeBomb - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
I love to see a idol 4 with the new 625...the smaller battery sacrifice is worth it.How good is the P10?
jjj - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
The SD625 is second half of the year so will compete with the P20 and others.The P10 goes to 2GHz, has slightly better GPU and is on TSMC's 28HPC+ ,should have nice power consumption.
The P20 on 16ff is yet to be fully detailed but rumored specs are 2.3GHz,50% faster GPU over the P10 and ofc lower power. I hope the Mediatek P20 and the 8 cores Spreadtrum on 16ff will be fully detailed at MWC.
jjj - Monday, February 22, 2016 - link
The P20 just got announced. Up to 2xLPDDR4 and up to 6GB of RAM but the coolest part is Mali T880MP2 at 900MHz - same as the Kirin 950 and that's a big deal because for the first time an A53 based SoC has a GPU good enough for 1080p gaming.jjj - Monday, February 22, 2016 - link
correction: the kirin has MP4 at 900MHz so no this is not all that great, still a lot faster than the P10lilmoe - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
I've also seen an extremely nice phone by a company (formerly Siemens) back at CES, but didn't hear from them anymore. There are lots of other OEMs building just as nice smartphones.I'm looking at the spec sheet on these cuties, and damn. The parts (Screen, DAC, audio amplifiers, NAND, modems, antennas, etc...) are all top notch. In a couple of years, these "midrange" SoCs will be plenty fast for the heaviest of power users. So what will a "true" flagship have that these devices don't?? Brand and image? I really wonder how long Apple and Samsung can milk their brands.
In a couple of years, a >$500 "flagship" is going to be a really tough sell. ^This also DESTROYS Samsung's Galaxy A series. Apple should be extremely worried and think much more serious about the (upper)mid-range market (below $500).
Wardrop - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
High-end phones in the past have been essential for a decent user experience, like computers of old. Phones are now reaching that "fast enough" point, assuming no new revolutionary applications come along to change that (like maybe VR?). Like todays expensive laptops, you'll be paying double the price for a fancier rose-gold chassis, slightly faster chips (for double the price), and otherwise the latest bleeding edge - possibly fad - technology. The high-end will continue to be the playground for manufacturers. But I think the days of mums and dads carrying around >$500 smartphones are coming to an end. Apple may be forced to enter the mid-range, beyond just continuing selling last-gen phones are half the cost.jjj - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
Today higher res and/or curved screens can still make a difference. Better GPUs are also a big advantage as resolutions are crazy high and games are still poor. Sure you have lots of other less noticeable pluses in high end (that doesn't mean that any phone is worth 700$ and that some brands can't do 2-3 times lower prices for the same device).Tomorrow, foldable screens will make the difference as those will have a high price premium. Beyond that, it doesn't really matter as glasses replace smartphones and more or less everything else with a screen.
Lolimaster - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
Once they make the jump to a proper 2560x1440 RGB Amoled (non-pentile) theres little reason a higer res screen except a better option like 2560x1600 16:10.jjj - Sunday, February 21, 2016 - link
With every increase of res there are lots of people saying it's not needed.But yes , if they stop the specs train, sales would be hurt and some are doing that this year,they'll get burned. As for non-Pentile OLED, highly doubt it. They sell 2 subpixels as a pixel now, going RGB would mean they have to advertise the real resolution and they won't do that unless forced to by regulators.Murloc - Sunday, February 21, 2016 - link
exotic stuff aside, phones are battery limited, and you also have the issues that developers want their games to work on 99% of phones. So if people stop buying pricey phones because midrange is good enough, you won't be able to make use of the higher end GPUs.jjj - Sunday, February 21, 2016 - link
GPU's won't be enough even in PC for decades and the smartphone will be long dead before that.There is a long long way to go to photo-realism and resolutions won't stand still. Anyone staying 1440p flat this year will get burned, you get that in 200$ phones already. Then foldable will bring even more pixels.
name99 - Sunday, February 21, 2016 - link
People have been saying this ("Apple will be forced to charge less") for years now. I guess at SOME point it will become true...People aren't buying iPhones for their specs now; so it seems unlikely that they're going to buy them based on specs in the future.
Saying that phones are fast enough is ridiculous; it's like you've never used a phone.
If I have to wait for ANYTHING on a phone it's not fast enough. That's what fast means. On my iPhone 6 I have to wait, for example, on launching an app, or on fingerprinting into the phone. The 6s has both far faster, but app-launching is still noticeable.
And so: What could be added to the 7, the 7S, the 8?
Fingerprinting is OK, but prevents fluid interaction with the app suggestions and notifications on the lock-screen. Could fingerprint detection be built into the screen itself? Or use the front-facing camera instead?
Stylus support for phones would also be useful --- means we now need that 240Hz pressure sampling screen. And even on an iPad Pro there is *slight* (but visible) lag in drawing very fast with the stylus. Obviously that has to go; and it has to go even when the stylus is configured as an extremely fancy pen that isn't just "drawing" pixels like ink but is modifying the pre-existing pixels in some way (like transforming wherever you draw to look like watercolor).
A large part of what you're paying for in a more expensive phone is a better battery, and that won't change for quite a few years.
Wireless charging done right (ie identical charger across all Apple devices, ideally without having to place the device EXACTLY on the charger, ideally one charger able to charge multiple devices simultaneously) is coming.
Flash is going to be replaced by NVM of some form, like 3D XPoint, which requires both CPU and OS changes for optimal utilization, but promises dramatically faster interaction with files.
Waterproof.
Better camera (3D? infrared? variable focal plane?)
Soft radio (so able to adapt to various specs around the world, and future specs)
...
I think I've described enough there to keep Apple busy for at least three more years --- with, of course, the mid-range trailing those improvements by a few years.
cyberfrost - Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - link
Gigaset bought Siemens mobile division in 2008 I guess. They are in wireless handsets but not sure about their presence in cellphonesLolimaster - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
652 is a real winner.Lolimaster - Saturday, February 20, 2016 - link
Although I would like something like 2xA72 @2.3Ghz and 4xA53 @1.5GhzMurloc - Sunday, February 21, 2016 - link
poor man's VR