That information doesn't really help clarify much. What counts as the "same device"? What If I change one of CPU, Motherboard, Boot SSD? Is it then the same PC or a different PC?
What if I connect my SSD to a different machine, boot-up and do a clean re-install using recovery tool?
Typically, MS has defined "same device" as the Motherboard. However, it can trigger a re authorization if you replace a bunch of components (CPU, GPU, Drive, RAM, etc) all at once. But, even then it's typically an automated phone call to sort it out.
that's interesting. the only time I've ever had to reauthorize windows since WGA was introduced was when I swapped motherboards. either way, you can activate with a key 3 times over the internet and 1 additional time over the phone, per key.
hopefully they will issue activation keys as part of the upgrade, making fresh installs easy.
It's always via the automated call system, and never fails to re-authorize. Not hard to do.
I'm concerned with how I will be able to reinstall? Can I get an ISO? Or do I have to do it thru some crappy new function of Windows Update/Recovery that messes everything up?
You can only replace your parts and reactivate just 4 times? Are they kidding? That's like if you replace your harddrive 4 times you have to buy a new PC?
Intel CPUs have an identifying number, probably so the NSA can track you more easily. There was a fuss about it long ago when it came out (Pentium Pro or something). I assume AMD chips also have this.
I don't believe that is how it works. Your install should be linked to the motherboard for OEM copies. I can't recall if it used the MAC address or a SN from the BIOS but that should be the trigger. The massive number of items changing has historically been more of a video game thing. I have never heard of anyone actually having a problem when they contacted Microsoft.
"It triggered a reautorisation when a swapped my SSD!!!! " - were you booting from that SSD by any chance? makes sense to trigger if you clone the boot device
Incorrect. windows upgrade licences are transferable to anyone else, as long as the machine they are putting it on is eligible (i.e. has version of windows eligible for upgrade). At least the Windows 8.1 upgrade was.
Yep you are correct. In the case of Windows 10 I'm under the impression that the upgrade isn't going to be the same 'retail' upgrade. MS has said, "For the life of the machine". if you move then that's no longer THAT machine. new licence.
it depends on how they handle OEM licenses vs Retail licenses. OEM licenses must stay with the machine. Retail licenses are transferable to a new machine.
Actually it's you who might be confused over this. There are or have been 4 types of Windows licenses.
Full, which means no restrictions and full support from MS. Upgrade, which requires a earlier version of windows on the target machine, and has full support from MS. BTW an easy work around is to install the upgrade and do the first boot to desktop but don't activate. Then simply install for a second time and you're golden. Both these versions can be moved from one machine to another with pretty much no restrictions. It's supposed to be 4 times, but the activation servers seem to reset after a year or two so it doesn't matter how many times it's installed. Of course these are also one seat licenses.
The other two are Enterprise, which is simply a full install sold for multiple seats, used by schools and businesses. And OEM the one you're referring to. It stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer and it's sold to companies like HP or Dell as a full version with no support from MS, it's tied to the machine it comes on and can not be transferred. End users (us) can buy a OEM license as well as long as they buy one piece of hardware, even a mouse. For those cases MS considers either replacing a motherboard or a number of hardware changes to count as a new machine and the license no longer valid. But again the servers seem to reset eventually and then it'll activate. If not you can often get a phone activation at least once.
It sounds like Windows 10 that will be free is an upgrade version. So you can pretty much do anything you want as long as it's only running on one machine and it was installed on a machine running an earlier version of Windows.
I'm more concerned about what happens when upgrading my 7 Pro license to 10. Will it invalidate my 7 Pro key if I want to go back? I know that historically this has not been the case, but I guess that all depends upon how desperate Microsoft is to get/keep users on W10.
No, they will definitely not invalidate your old windows 7/8 keys. Remember you can always format and reinstall just like you always have in the past to go back if you don't want to stick with windows 10.
They could legally, by binding some line that you would be asked to accept in order to upgrade to W10. IT is "legally" possible, and this is exactly why it needs to be EXPLICITLY clarified by MS, for many of us to get a positive opinion on this W10 "free upgrade" option.
I am afraid that is not enough, for us to try to discard this possibility, rather laterally, just because -of course- most of us find it unlogical or oppose it
I'm hoping they just issue us new keys. Honestly the process involved going from an original Win8 key to Win8.1 to Win8.1 with Media Center almost always leads to a call to MS support.
Well I'm allowed to use my Windows 8 Pro Upgrade keys with a full 8.1 Pro ISO as though they are 8.1 Pro keys. Just download the ISO from MS. Before they allowed that I was having to install the 8RTM, then 8 Pro Upgrade then updating to 8.1 to get up to date.
What does this mean for those of us on the W10 Preview? I have a valid W7 key, why can't you just let me enter that somewhere then give me the W10 key?
My concern is with Microsoft's poor reputation and track record of changing the terms and conditions at their convenience. This crazy racketeering allows them to change the bargain after its been struck via their End-User License Agreements that accompany updates...
Can anyone extract a statement from Microsoft that they won't start charging for updates and patches via a monthly fee or something stupid like that? I'm fed up with attempts by monopolies and dominant corporates to milk consumers - but even more; I'm sick of dumb imbeciles amongst us who actually let themselves get milked. Harden up people!
The salient point is that patches do not equal upgrades. While I'm not worried about the sky falling, I can't recall reading what the model will be for features updates e.g. Windows 10.1.
The concern that I'm hearing from people is that a year or two down the road, Microsoft will announce a subscription model like Adobe now does with their products. Security patches might remain free, but new features could be released at a steady pace, and might only be available with an active subscription.
It's purely hypothetical, but that model would be a significant shift, and has the potential to eliminate the "free" part of the free upgrade.
I'm not saying this will happen, but that is the concern that some people share.
They will probably do like apple, and charge a small fee for the upgrade to perhaps 10.1, but keep doing security patches for both versions for some time, just like they always have.
In time I think they will move to a subscription model though. The whole way MS has been evolving Windows since V7 seems like this is what they have in mind. I just hate the way they're trying to make it look like one is using a tablet or a phone, looks so unprofessional IMO. One should at least have the choice, but they're ramming the whole app thing down users' throats. The new app store mechanism, etc... subscription model coming soon.
They will never charge for updates and patches. It would be bad for THEM. Think of all the un patched machines out there that there will be and the bad press they would get from all the viruses they would be propagating all over the net. They would never do that, its not at all the philosophy they have taken in the past and there is no business sense to do it anyways.
The SLIC table in the UEFI would allow Win10 to verify which version of Windows came with most OEM PCs and authenticate a clean Win10 install. For non-OEM Windows installs it could verify the serial number and "upgrade" the serial number to allow future installs. The only problem would be clean Win10 installs after the first year that rely on the SLIC table as Microsoft would be unable to verify that the PC had been previously upgraded to Win10. I hope that makes some sense.
Pretty sure he's used to older versions of OS X, where you are charged for every release. If he used windows, he'd know that windows 95/NT and up had free updates. Not banging the Mac though, my Macbook Pro is the ultimate goto machine fro everything.
Guys, I need to clarify you this. I currently have 8.1 Pro. So if I install the 10, will all the data (music, movie, photos etc.) be erased from my laptop or not?
You'll have an option at the Upgrade time if you want to do a full clean install or just re-install W10 on top of W8.1, in the latter case all your files will remain. This article talks about how if you choose to do a re-install on top of W7-8.1, then you still have the option to do a full brand new install from scratch where all files are deleted. It's just about options at upgrade time and later on.
That was good advice up till Windows XP but not anymore. If you build a PC properly in the first place and watch what you install over time (like we all do here as we are supposedly IT enthusiasts) then a yearly install isn't required. Back in Windows 98 days I would rebuild/install every 3-4 months but now I only do a fresh install if I do a big hardware upgrade or obviously upgrade the OS.
Agree completely. Back in the 9x days I used to reinstall every 6 months. Now I never bother with it, unless I'm installing to a new hard drive or installing a new OS (since I really don't trust 'upgrades'). I can't recall having any issues with XP, but for sure I haven't with Vista or newer. My main system running 8 was set up over 2.5 years ago. Although in that case I suppose it was sort of refreshed a bit by virtue of the 8.1 update a year and a half ago or whenever.
Hardware changes on XP pretty much required a new fresh install. I've seen MAJOR performance problems caused by changing hardware in XP machines, that magically went away with a new install. Probably had something to do with layering of drivers.
True. I've never faced these "issues" with 7 and above. But you can't ignore all the users who face these problems, and I believe Windows 10's Store model solves that as I said in my reply to gw74.
Win7 does have its own clogging issues, but they're less severe than XP, at least so far. Over time, check the syslogs, you'll find various errors cropping up, but most are fixable. A few though are really dumb, things like limits in internal management tables being exceeded.
The thing I really love about Windows 10 is that you can download all your apps from the Store, even Win32 applications. If you do that, these apps are sort-of sandboxed (while not being restricted like Universal Apps) so that any change they make to the OS (file system, registry, etc...) can be *completely* uninstalled when you uninstall the app. This is simply brilliant and, if done right, will solve the whole clutter problem.
Heh, dozens of poorly written make uninstall I've used in the past year alone say otherwise. Generally speaking, if the application being installed conforms to the standard package management system for your OS (swinst, rpm, dpkg, are the ones I've had experience with), then they tend to uninstall well, too. Oh, unless you customize a conf file. I suppose any well written uninstaller will do the same. If Microsoft has tightened up the restrictions on a valid installer, then it will be a good thing.
If you have so many "legacy processes" that your computer is slowing down, you should start with the "Add or remove programs" option and get rid of the stuff you installed but no longer want.
Windows "clogging" or loss of performance over time isn't a myth, it's a reality created by lazy programers. It has gotten much better since the Win 9x days but there are still some pretty sloppy installs/configs/removals roaming around out there.
Absolutely correct, on both counts. Reg cleaners can help, but they can also scrag a machine. OS bloat isn't as bad with Win7 for sure, really not that bad at all, but it can still happen. If MS though has not changed the fundamental nature of what a file is in Win10 then the notion of sandboxing and file access control is still just a bolt-on like it was when it was added for NT.
"utilities companies trying to push their $19.95 "registry cleaners"
Seriously if you don't know that apps do a crappy jobs of uninstalling all their shit then you may want to buy a 19.95 reg cleaners, or go get a free one. Add to that every website with a download has five 19.95 reg cleaners, anti virus, speed up, and tool bar known to man kind and people PC's get "clocked up" all the time. It may not happen to you but their are millions that fall for the added installs when they want to download Candy Land PC. I've gone to people's home and found 10 tool bars on their web browsers. Its getting almost impossible to not download something you never wanted or needed. They make the "ask your permission" question so misleading you have no idea if you should answer yes or no sometimes and their may be 5 times they ask you and every time its worded differently, lol GRRRRRRR Their should be a law against it. My god i'm a very experienced PC user and I'm starting to find it hard making sure I don't download something I don't want or need.
Wonder if I'll be getting any keys thru MSDNAA or whatever they're calling their current edu program... After the Win 7 debacle where so many non-academics gamed the system with bogus IEEE/ACM subs they kinda cracked down and limited the number of keys they gave out for Win 8.
Getting them free isn't even my biggest worry anyway, I do like getting that clean ISO I can use with any other keys tho.
It's MS Dreamspark now, at least at our institution. I suspect it will be a matter of one license per individual with Windows 10, as it has been for 8 (though it seems this has a built-in reset timer of some sort).
This upgradebusiness is so fu**ing stupid... They should just have released the ISO for free via a torrent-service in their webpage, letting any and everyone install it. If they want users, they'd get it! This upgradeshit is just stupid. Changing motherboard or other hardware should not mean trouble for the user. That's also just stupid! I really hope for windows 10 to get Sysprep like in Windows 7. That was a totally amazing function!!
I think it was my tweet to Gabe that spurred this. I pointed out a important change in Windows 10. 10's system reserved partition is 450mb's. 8/8.1's are 350mb's. 7's I can't remeber, but I'm sure it's smaller than 8/8.1's are. With this difference in size 10 wouldn't work properly on any restores or system images with a upgrade install, as the system reserved partition size wouldn't be made any bigger than it is in your current o.s.
That's great news for enthusiasts like myself who upgrade every year or two and sell my old machine off in parts on eBay. Hopefully they just provide a license key that we can use when we upgrade. I envision putting Windows 10 install on a USB flash and use that for the install, hopefully its as easy as it sounds.
So should I just get retail copy of Windows 10 for my custom build desktop because someday in a few years I will be getting a new computer completely...
Well since Windows 7, Windows has been pretty cheap to but at release or on pre release. If I can pick up a retail version of the Pro then I may well do.
To be honest I'm one of those that annual subscription would be better going forward.
Are there any information for devices employ WIMBOOT to upgrade to W10? I can see this is possible if users would install an micro SD card in their devices.
Damned Microsoft always making it hard for their customers!!!
Microsoft, I want: 1. To clean install from media whenever I want without losing my secondary drives (I split my drive in two) 2. To dual-tripple boot whenever I want! 3. I want no stupid upgrades that leave a fragmented, polluted Hard Drive. 4. I don't want all that online functionality forced down my throat. 5. I want a lightweight OS that flies and does not get into my way.
Then use UNIX. ;D Oops, sorry, wrong decade... bummer... not much choice these days. :) Oh I know there's Linux, but it's still a long way from being genuinely user friendly for anyone, and the attitudes of many Linux users on forums can leave a lot to be desired.
• Applications, files and settings will migrate as part of the upgrade, however some applications or settings may not migrate. •For Anti-virus and Anti-malware applications, during upgrade Windows will check to see if your Anti-virus or Anti-malware subscription is current. Windows will uninstall your application while preserving your settings. After upgrade is complete, Windows will install the latest version available with the settings that were set prior to upgrade. If your subscription is not current, upgrade will enable Windows defender. •Some applications that came from your OEM may be removed prior to upgrade. •For certain third party applications, the “Get Windows 10” app will scan for application compatibility. If there is a known issue that will prevent the upgrade, you will be notified of the list of applications with known issues. You can choose to accept and the applications will be removed from the system prior to upgrade. Please be sure to copy the list before you accept the removal of the application.
I recently pulled my hard drive and cpu out of a Dell Optiplex and placed them into a Asrock MB and was able to activate with my product key online. I was glad because I'm really looking forward to seeing if DX12 is what it's been hyped up to be. I should add that I installed a fresh copy of Home Premium
You can perform a clean install after upgrading for I just did it on my desktop and laptop. Once you upgrade Microsoft replaces your old windows 7/8 key with the new Windows 10 key. You will need to ensure you have this ( as well back up all your data) before wiping your hard drive and performing the clean install. Once you have the Windows 10 key written down and have created the Windows 10 USB installation media which you can do thanks to Microsoft easy configuration utility you should be good to go. All works great for me activation etc. Also windows 10 is fast it only takes 8 seconds to go from a complete shutdown state to the Windows 10 desktop on my desktop and 10 seconds on my older laptop.
i have Windows 10 activated on C. Now can I merge C and D together and install Windows 10 clean again after Format on the same Disk but now with no partition or just one partition?
How can I find out what my current key is to use it on a complete fresh install a new drive? And I guess further is that the best way to do it I'm essentially reinstalling Windows with my current key on a new drive on the same machine. I am essentially trying to do a clean install. The copy over my settings etc later
This is not true. I ugraded my lato to a ssd and now windows does not activate. I talked to the customer service and they said , it wouldn't activate for a fresh install . You need to reinstall windows 8 and ugrade( WTF . Othewise they were offering me a deal. windows 10 key for 40$. Wow ..
This is what did on my Acer 8.1 laptop i din't like the bloatware. so i download windows 8.1 from microsoft. did a clean install on my laptop. upgrade to windows 10 no bloatware just pure windows 10. after that i download the Acer Drivers installed them. reboot my laptop now i got a fresh laptop with windows 10. now just go to recovery insert a usb flash drive an make a copy of your clean windows 10.that you can use this copy anytime. btw im waiting for my new ssd drive i wll update later if cloning works or just install the ssd drive an boot it from the usb flash drive that i made. btw my Acer Laptop does not have a product key but windows activates itself once im online. but you can find your laptop product key by using........ belarc advisor
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dishayu - Tuesday, June 2, 2015 - link
That information doesn't really help clarify much. What counts as the "same device"? What If I change one of CPU, Motherboard, Boot SSD? Is it then the same PC or a different PC?What if I connect my SSD to a different machine, boot-up and do a clean re-install using recovery tool?
darqsyde242 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Typically, MS has defined "same device" as the Motherboard. However, it can trigger a re authorization if you replace a bunch of components (CPU, GPU, Drive, RAM, etc) all at once. But, even then it's typically an automated phone call to sort it out.Da W - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
It triggered a reautorisation when a swapped my SSD!!!! Bunch of morons!Samus - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
that's interesting. the only time I've ever had to reauthorize windows since WGA was introduced was when I swapped motherboards. either way, you can activate with a key 3 times over the internet and 1 additional time over the phone, per key.hopefully they will issue activation keys as part of the upgrade, making fresh installs easy.
tabascosauz - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
It's always via the automated call system, and never fails to re-authorize. Not hard to do.I'm concerned with how I will be able to reinstall? Can I get an ISO? Or do I have to do it thru some crappy new function of Windows Update/Recovery that messes everything up?
close - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
If I'm upgrading my Windows 8.1 Pro on my device and then decide I wan to go back, will I be able to install 8.1 any time or am I stuck on Win 10?therightclique - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Of course you'll be able to install Windows 8.1, assuming you have installation media for it.Why wouldn't you?
Zingam - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
You can only replace your parts and reactivate just 4 times? Are they kidding?That's like if you replace your harddrive 4 times you have to buy a new PC?
jameskatt - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
A new hard drive makes your computer a new computer in Microsoft's eyes. How else can it tell otherwise?Oxford Guy - Friday, June 12, 2015 - link
Intel CPUs have an identifying number, probably so the NSA can track you more easily. There was a fuss about it long ago when it came out (Pentium Pro or something). I assume AMD chips also have this.Artuk - Thursday, June 25, 2015 - link
I don't believe that is how it works. Your install should be linked to the motherboard for OEM copies. I can't recall if it used the MAC address or a SN from the BIOS but that should be the trigger. The massive number of items changing has historically been more of a video game thing. I have never heard of anyone actually having a problem when they contacted Microsoft.Disorganise - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
"It triggered a reautorisation when a swapped my SSD!!!! " - were you booting from that SSD by any chance? makes sense to trigger if you clone the boot deviceGigaplex - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I'm hoping "same device" means same license key.Oblivion2500 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
+1jameskatt - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
Same device = Same license keyDifferent device = different license key
Change motherboard = different device
Change components = different device
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Then you will need a new licence as you've moved machine. It's pretty much the same avenue as previous windows machines and YOU probably know that.gw74 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Incorrect. windows upgrade licences are transferable to anyone else, as long as the machine they are putting it on is eligible (i.e. has version of windows eligible for upgrade). At least the Windows 8.1 upgrade was.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Yep you are correct. In the case of Windows 10 I'm under the impression that the upgrade isn't going to be the same 'retail' upgrade. MS has said, "For the life of the machine". if you move then that's no longer THAT machine. new licence.Samus - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
it depends on how they handle OEM licenses vs Retail licenses. OEM licenses must stay with the machine. Retail licenses are transferable to a new machine.Gezzer - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Actually it's you who might be confused over this. There are or have been 4 types of Windows licenses.Full, which means no restrictions and full support from MS.
Upgrade, which requires a earlier version of windows on the target machine, and has full support from MS. BTW an easy work around is to install the upgrade and do the first boot to desktop but don't activate. Then simply install for a second time and you're golden.
Both these versions can be moved from one machine to another with pretty much no restrictions. It's supposed to be 4 times, but the activation servers seem to reset after a year or two so it doesn't matter how many times it's installed. Of course these are also one seat licenses.
The other two are Enterprise, which is simply a full install sold for multiple seats, used by schools and businesses.
And OEM the one you're referring to. It stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer and it's sold to companies like HP or Dell as a full version with no support from MS, it's tied to the machine it comes on and can not be transferred. End users (us) can buy a OEM license as well as long as they buy one piece of hardware, even a mouse. For those cases MS considers either replacing a motherboard or a number of hardware changes to count as a new machine and the license no longer valid. But again the servers seem to reset eventually and then it'll activate. If not you can often get a phone activation at least once.
It sounds like Windows 10 that will be free is an upgrade version. So you can pretty much do anything you want as long as it's only running on one machine and it was installed on a machine running an earlier version of Windows.
nathanddrews - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I'm more concerned about what happens when upgrading my 7 Pro license to 10. Will it invalidate my 7 Pro key if I want to go back? I know that historically this has not been the case, but I guess that all depends upon how desperate Microsoft is to get/keep users on W10.Mr Perfect - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I'm curious about this, too. I have an older backup PC that will probably need to stay on 7, but who's to know until 10 is on it?extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
No, they will definitely not invalidate your old windows 7/8 keys. Remember you can always format and reinstall just like you always have in the past to go back if you don't want to stick with windows 10.therightclique - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Of course it won't invalidate your Windows 7 key.Come on.
Nexing - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
They could legally, by binding some line that you would be asked to accept in order to upgrade to W10.IT is "legally" possible, and this is exactly why it needs to be EXPLICITLY clarified by MS, for many of us to get a positive opinion on this W10 "free upgrade" option.
I am afraid that is not enough, for us to try to discard this possibility, rather laterally, just because -of course- most of us find it unlogical or oppose it
nathanddrews - Tuesday, June 9, 2015 - link
This.chizow - Tuesday, June 2, 2015 - link
Wow, great news! Thanks for the confirmation on this.chizow - Tuesday, June 2, 2015 - link
I'm hoping they just issue us new keys. Honestly the process involved going from an original Win8 key to Win8.1 to Win8.1 with Media Center almost always leads to a call to MS support.kspirit - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Say we use a software to read the license key (after the W10 upgrade). Won't it be possible to use it when reinstalling W10 from an ISO?jabber - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Well I'm allowed to use my Windows 8 Pro Upgrade keys with a full 8.1 Pro ISO as though they are 8.1 Pro keys. Just download the ISO from MS. Before they allowed that I was having to install the 8RTM, then 8 Pro Upgrade then updating to 8.1 to get up to date.Took all day.
freeskier93 - Tuesday, June 2, 2015 - link
What does this mean for those of us on the W10 Preview? I have a valid W7 key, why can't you just let me enter that somewhere then give me the W10 key?Brett Howse - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
We'll have to wait and see, but maybe that's already been done.Impulses - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Didn't they make previews a dead end in the past?SonyJim - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
My concern is with Microsoft's poor reputation and track record of changing the terms and conditions at their convenience. This crazy racketeering allows them to change the bargain after its been struck via their End-User License Agreements that accompany updates...Can anyone extract a statement from Microsoft that they won't start charging for updates and patches via a monthly fee or something stupid like that? I'm fed up with attempts by monopolies and dominant corporates to milk consumers - but even more; I'm sick of dumb imbeciles amongst us who actually let themselves get milked. Harden up people!
Brett Howse - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
There's no fee for patches. If you upgrade to Windows 10, you get Windows 10 for no cost ever. Yes, they have said exactly that.Ancillas - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
The salient point is that patches do not equal upgrades. While I'm not worried about the sky falling, I can't recall reading what the model will be for features updates e.g. Windows 10.1.The concern that I'm hearing from people is that a year or two down the road, Microsoft will announce a subscription model like Adobe now does with their products. Security patches might remain free, but new features could be released at a steady pace, and might only be available with an active subscription.
It's purely hypothetical, but that model would be a significant shift, and has the potential to eliminate the "free" part of the free upgrade.
I'm not saying this will happen, but that is the concern that some people share.
extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
They will probably do like apple, and charge a small fee for the upgrade to perhaps 10.1, but keep doing security patches for both versions for some time, just like they always have.mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
In time I think they will move to a subscription model though. The whole way MS has been evolving Windows since V7 seems like this is what they have in mind. I just hate the way they're trying to make it look like one is using a tablet or a phone, looks so unprofessional IMO. One should at least have the choice, but they're ramming the whole app thing down users' throats. The new app store mechanism, etc... subscription model coming soon.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Bullshit post above. In t he past you simply buy the licence or it arrives with the machine.extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
They will never charge for updates and patches. It would be bad for THEM. Think of all the un patched machines out there that there will be and the bad press they would get from all the viruses they would be propagating all over the net. They would never do that, its not at all the philosophy they have taken in the past and there is no business sense to do it anyways.MikeMurphy - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
The SLIC table in the UEFI would allow Win10 to verify which version of Windows came with most OEM PCs and authenticate a clean Win10 install. For non-OEM Windows installs it could verify the serial number and "upgrade" the serial number to allow future installs. The only problem would be clean Win10 installs after the first year that rely on the SLIC table as Microsoft would be unable to verify that the PC had been previously upgraded to Win10. I hope that makes some sense.betam4x - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
except for the fact that SLIC emulators allow pirates to stay on top of OS updates.barleyguy - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
As well as people with legitimate licenses that don't want to deal with the BS of activation.HarryMannbach - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
This sounds like the verbatim "disclaimer" found with every piece of pirated software ever :p Still a valid statement though.betam4x - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Pretty sure he's used to older versions of OS X, where you are charged for every release. If he used windows, he'd know that windows 95/NT and up had free updates. Not banging the Mac though, my Macbook Pro is the ultimate goto machine fro everything.fera79 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Guys, I need to clarify you this. I currently have 8.1 Pro. So if I install the 10, will all the data (music, movie, photos etc.) be erased from my laptop or not?RussianSensation - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
You'll have an option at the Upgrade time if you want to do a full clean install or just re-install W10 on top of W8.1, in the latter case all your files will remain. This article talks about how if you choose to do a re-install on top of W7-8.1, then you still have the option to do a full brand new install from scratch where all files are deleted. It's just about options at upgrade time and later on.fera79 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Thanks! What would be the main benefits of doing clean install as opposed to partial?Impulses - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Lower potential for things to go wrong, generally speaking.gw74 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
a clean install freshens up performance: legacy processes cleaned out. you should do this once a year anyway. windows clogs up over time.jabber - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
That was good advice up till Windows XP but not anymore. If you build a PC properly in the first place and watch what you install over time (like we all do here as we are supposedly IT enthusiasts) then a yearly install isn't required. Back in Windows 98 days I would rebuild/install every 3-4 months but now I only do a fresh install if I do a big hardware upgrade or obviously upgrade the OS.Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Agree completely. Back in the 9x days I used to reinstall every 6 months. Now I never bother with it, unless I'm installing to a new hard drive or installing a new OS (since I really don't trust 'upgrades'). I can't recall having any issues with XP, but for sure I haven't with Vista or newer. My main system running 8 was set up over 2.5 years ago. Although in that case I suppose it was sort of refreshed a bit by virtue of the 8.1 update a year and a half ago or whenever.barleyguy - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Hardware changes on XP pretty much required a new fresh install. I've seen MAJOR performance problems caused by changing hardware in XP machines, that magically went away with a new install. Probably had something to do with layering of drivers.jabber - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Well if you knew what you were doing it generally wasn't an issue. Some folks just know jack about building a PC properly.All in the layering and order of things.
lilmoe - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
True. I've never faced these "issues" with 7 and above. But you can't ignore all the users who face these problems, and I believe Windows 10's Store model solves that as I said in my reply to gw74.mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Win7 does have its own clogging issues, but they're less severe than XP, at least so far. Over time, check the syslogs, you'll find various errors cropping up, but most are fixable. A few though are really dumb, things like limits in internal management tables being exceeded.lilmoe - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
"windows clogs up over time"The thing I really love about Windows 10 is that you can download all your apps from the Store, even Win32 applications. If you do that, these apps are sort-of sandboxed (while not being restricted like Universal Apps) so that any change they make to the OS (file system, registry, etc...) can be *completely* uninstalled when you uninstall the app. This is simply brilliant and, if done right, will solve the whole clutter problem.
mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Funny how MS will make such a thing out of this notion when it's been standard in UNIX systems for more han 30 years.erple2 - Sunday, June 7, 2015 - link
Heh, dozens of poorly written make uninstall I've used in the past year alone say otherwise. Generally speaking, if the application being installed conforms to the standard package management system for your OS (swinst, rpm, dpkg, are the ones I've had experience with), then they tend to uninstall well, too. Oh, unless you customize a conf file. I suppose any well written uninstaller will do the same. If Microsoft has tightened up the restrictions on a valid installer, then it will be a good thing.grant3 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
If you have so many "legacy processes" that your computer is slowing down, you should start with the "Add or remove programs" option and get rid of the stuff you installed but no longer want.Windows doesn't "clog up" simply by existing.
piiman - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Many many applications do not completely remove themselves.They leave all sorts of goodies laying around your system.
grant3 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I think this whole 'clogging' idea is an urban myth perpetuated by utilities companies trying to push their $19.95 "registry cleaners"masouth - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Windows "clogging" or loss of performance over time isn't a myth, it's a reality created by lazy programers. It has gotten much better since the Win 9x days but there are still some pretty sloppy installs/configs/removals roaming around out there.As far as registry cleaners, YMMV
mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Absolutely correct, on both counts. Reg cleaners can help, but they can also scrag a machine. OS bloat isn't as bad with Win7 for sure, really not that bad at all, but it can still happen. If MS though has not changed the fundamental nature of what a file is in Win10 then the notion of sandboxing and file access control is still just a bolt-on like it was when it was added for NT.piiman - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
"utilities companies trying to push their $19.95 "registry cleaners"Seriously if you don't know that apps do a crappy jobs of uninstalling all their shit then you may want to buy a 19.95 reg cleaners, or go get a free one. Add to that every website with a download has five 19.95 reg cleaners, anti virus, speed up, and tool bar known to man kind and people PC's get "clocked up" all the time. It may not happen to you but their are millions that fall for the added installs when they want to download Candy Land PC. I've gone to people's home and found 10 tool bars on their web browsers. Its getting almost impossible to not download something you never wanted or needed. They make the "ask your permission" question so misleading you have no idea if you should answer yes or no sometimes and their may be 5 times they ask you and every time its worded differently, lol GRRRRRRR Their should be a law against it. My god i'm a very experienced PC user and I'm starting to find it hard making sure I don't download something I don't want or need.
mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Even if supposedly not, you should backup your data before the update just in case.Impulses - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Wonder if I'll be getting any keys thru MSDNAA or whatever they're calling their current edu program... After the Win 7 debacle where so many non-academics gamed the system with bogus IEEE/ACM subs they kinda cracked down and limited the number of keys they gave out for Win 8.Getting them free isn't even my biggest worry anyway, I do like getting that clean ISO I can use with any other keys tho.
HarryMannbach - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
It's MS Dreamspark now, at least at our institution. I suspect it will be a matter of one license per individual with Windows 10, as it has been for 8 (though it seems this has a built-in reset timer of some sort).lilmoe - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Microsoft acts like a surgen who never gives clear answers because of how wide his behind has gotten from lawsuits.I guess the only way to get concrete answers is to wait things out after RTM and see what's allowed and what's not......
Either way, I'll be buying a separate Pro license because it seems like the hassle free way to get the LAST version of Windows. Get it people?
Michael Bay - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Nobody cares.Spectrophobic - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I have a feeling the "official" way of clean installing will be as, or even more, troublesome than 8/8.1... at least with OEM keys,I wish they were as lax as Windows 7 with Digital River (RIP) ISO downloads and such...
bojaka - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
This upgradebusiness is so fu**ing stupid... They should just have released the ISO for free via a torrent-service in their webpage, letting any and everyone install it. If they want users, they'd get it!This upgradeshit is just stupid. Changing motherboard or other hardware should not mean trouble for the user. That's also just stupid! I really hope for windows 10 to get Sysprep like in Windows 7. That was a totally amazing function!!
extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I am SURE there will be sysprep, they have had it since at LEAST windows 98, and probably since 95zodiacfml - Friday, June 5, 2015 - link
Why would sysprep not be in W10? Sysrep is invaluable for all Windows device makers.Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Well, that's at least more than we knew before. Thanks for the story!DirtyWilly - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I made an account just to post this!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgAh95IrfIs
brkkab123 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
I think it was my tweet to Gabe that spurred this. I pointed out a important change in Windows 10. 10's system reserved partition is 450mb's. 8/8.1's are 350mb's. 7's I can't remeber, but I'm sure it's smaller than 8/8.1's are. With this difference in size 10 wouldn't work properly on any restores or system images with a upgrade install, as the system reserved partition size wouldn't be made any bigger than it is in your current o.s.extide - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
Most of that partition is empty anyways, I am sure they could fit all that needs to be there in the 100MB or so that windows 7 uses.agentbb007 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
That's great news for enthusiasts like myself who upgrade every year or two and sell my old machine off in parts on eBay. Hopefully they just provide a license key that we can use when we upgrade. I envision putting Windows 10 install on a USB flash and use that for the install, hopefully its as easy as it sounds.Oblivion2500 - Wednesday, June 3, 2015 - link
So should I just get retail copy of Windows 10 for my custom build desktop because someday in a few years I will be getting a new computer completely...jabber - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Well since Windows 7, Windows has been pretty cheap to but at release or on pre release. If I can pick up a retail version of the Pro then I may well do.To be honest I'm one of those that annual subscription would be better going forward.
Taurus229 - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
The big question is, can we download an ISO copy ofwindows 10, and be able to do a clean install whenever, and how often as you would like.
jmunjr - Thursday, June 4, 2015 - link
Can you go back and do a clean install of your Windows 7 if you hate Windows 10?Valis - Friday, June 5, 2015 - link
I wont be upgrading past 7, you'll never get me alive suckers!!! :>Zingam - Sunday, June 7, 2015 - link
Just go back and use Windows 3.11 and you'll be fine!zodiacfml - Friday, June 5, 2015 - link
Are there any information for devices employ WIMBOOT to upgrade to W10? I can see this is possible if users would install an micro SD card in their devices.eanazag - Friday, June 5, 2015 - link
Good digging, Brett.Zingam - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Damned Microsoft always making it hard for their customers!!!Microsoft, I want:
1. To clean install from media whenever I want without losing my secondary drives (I split my drive in two)
2. To dual-tripple boot whenever I want!
3. I want no stupid upgrades that leave a fragmented, polluted Hard Drive.
4. I don't want all that online functionality forced down my throat.
5. I want a lightweight OS that flies and does not get into my way.
mapesdhs - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
Then use UNIX. ;D Oops, sorry, wrong decade... bummer... not much choice these days. :) Oh I know there's Linux, but it's still a long way from being genuinely user friendly for anyone, and the attitudes of many Linux users on forums can leave a lot to be desired.Zingam - Sunday, June 7, 2015 - link
Linux with their distribution philosophy fits in these requirements hardly. At least it is for free unlike MS Windows, which was always a rip-off.dmt1957 - Saturday, June 6, 2015 - link
My question is, when I get the automatic update from Windows 7 to Windows 10, will I have to re-install all my programs?Brett Howse - Monday, June 8, 2015 - link
• Applications, files and settings will migrate as part of the upgrade, however some applications or settings may not migrate.
•For Anti-virus and Anti-malware applications, during upgrade Windows will check to see if your Anti-virus or Anti-malware subscription is current. Windows will uninstall your application while preserving your settings. After upgrade is complete, Windows will install the latest version available with the settings that were set prior to upgrade. If your subscription is not current, upgrade will enable Windows defender.
•Some applications that came from your OEM may be removed prior to upgrade.
•For certain third party applications, the “Get Windows 10” app will scan for application compatibility. If there is a known issue that will prevent the upgrade, you will be notified of the list of applications with known issues. You can choose to accept and the applications will be removed from the system prior to upgrade. Please be sure to copy the list before you accept the removal of the application.
Dark_Mephisto - Thursday, July 23, 2015 - link
I recently pulled my hard drive and cpu out of a Dell Optiplex and placed them into a Asrock MB and was able to activate with my product key online. I was glad because I'm really looking forward to seeing if DX12 is what it's been hyped up to be. I should add that I installed a fresh copy of Home PremiumAplustek - Sunday, August 9, 2015 - link
You can perform a clean install after upgrading for I just did it on my desktop and laptop. Once you upgrade Microsoft replaces your old windows 7/8 key with the new Windows 10 key. You will need to ensure you have this ( as well back up all your data) before wiping your hard drive and performing the clean install. Once you have the Windows 10 key written down and have created the Windows 10 USB installation media which you can do thanks to Microsoft easy configuration utility you should be good to go. All works great for me activation etc. Also windows 10 is fast it only takes 8 seconds to go from a complete shutdown state to the Windows 10 desktop on my desktop and 10 seconds on my older laptop.Sumanth1908 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
I have clean installed windows 10 safely.I believe it all depends on the the key that was embedded in CMOS. This post helped me clean in installationhttp://www.techinformerz.com/2015/08/how-to-clean-...
aliasim77 - Friday, September 4, 2015 - link
i have Windows 10 activated on C. Now can I merge C and D together and install Windows 10 clean again after Format on the same Disk but now with no partition or just one partition?ParGolfer - Sunday, September 27, 2015 - link
It's Sept 27th. Have we had any update one this as yet?I like to have a clean re-install about once a year.
Richardchristian - Saturday, October 31, 2015 - link
How can I find out what my current key is to use it on a complete fresh install a new drive? And I guess further is that the best way to do it I'm essentially reinstalling Windows with my current key on a new drive on the same machine. I am essentially trying to do a clean install. The copy over my settings etc laterRachit - Sunday, November 15, 2015 - link
This is not true. I ugraded my lato to a ssd and now windows does not activate. I talked to the customer service and they said , it wouldn't activate for a fresh install . You need to reinstall windows 8 and ugrade( WTF . Othewise they were offering me a deal. windows 10 key for 40$.Wow ..
elplayero - Friday, April 29, 2016 - link
This is what did on my Acer 8.1 laptop i din't like the bloatware. so i download windows 8.1 from microsoft. did a clean install on my laptop. upgrade to windows 10 no bloatware just pure windows 10. after that i download the Acer Drivers installed them. reboot my laptop now i got a fresh laptop with windows 10. now just go to recovery insert a usb flash drive an make a copy of your clean windows 10.that you can use this copy anytime. btw im waiting for my new ssd drive i wll update later if cloning works or just install the ssd drive an boot it from the usb flash drive that i made. btw my Acer Laptop does not have a product key but windows activates itself once im online. but you can find your laptop product key by using........ belarc advisor