Thank you! This is encouraging to be honest as most of those sound like software bugs that could be fixed very soon. I'm personally waiting on y'all's review before I decide if I want one or of I should hang on for broadwell. Battery life is another concern as other websites don't seem to be giving the results you'd expect from 15% better than SP2, but your tests are the best. Any hints to how long you will be?
I'm waiting for the Surface Pro 4, assuming they fix the poor design choice of placing the Windows button right where a hand rests to draw on the thing.
The Pro 2 currently disables the Windows button when the pen is in range. I suspect as soon as Microsoft tweaks that on the Pro 3, nobody will care in the slightest where the Windows button is.
What I'm personally more concerned about is the location of the light sensor for portrait mode. If you use the top of the device on the right in portrait (like the start button location pushes you to do on the Pro 3), that means that if past history is any guide, you'll be covering and uncovering the light sensor as you write. That causes obnoxious backlight changes (and is why I use my Pro 2 with the button on the right / light sensor on the left in portrait). Hopefully Microsoft thought enough about that this time around as well.
I'm doing the same when in portrait mode, but it also gives the opportunity to snap in the stylus on top of your device (rathan than where your belly is)
It's bonkers to me that it has the same keyboard bug (alt-key is permanently 'depressed' in Windows until keyboard is unplugged) that I get on a 6 yr old work thinkpad with windows 7. On their 3rd version! But it IS pre-release and I'm sure they can get that much ironed out before release.
It sounds like a simple sticky keys issue (press it five times in a row and it'll get "stuck"), or perhaps a related software error in this case (as opposed to the gummy switch issue in older keyboards)
Well, from my experience with the first Surface Pro, they seem to be pretty good with updates. They managed to get Wacom to make the older drivers to support the Surface Pro's screen, and they fixed the FN key problem after a month or two. They've still got a lot of work to do on their drivers, though, and they've still not fixed the problems with the trackpad on the original keyboard cover.
Those damn trackpads... They never seem to turn off when you want them to. A couple of my laptops have a FN key that disables it, but it turns right back on after waking from sleep or after each reboot... and sometimes for no reason. Very annoying.
What's needed is a hardware switch, even though it would add a slight cost to the machine. I had a Dell years ago had one and it was great.
Not to beat some drum here, but Apple has nailed this quite perfectly on the Macbook trackpads, it stubbornly ignores everything that doesn't look like a fingertip. You can tap and swipe it with your wrists or the ball of your thumb all day long.
I've found that most Windows laptops these days with up to date drivers work comparably to MacBooks, but it seems to be an issue that never gets hammered out before a device launches, and instead get taken care of ~1 year later as an optional update that doesn't make it to most users.
Hmm, got a rMBP (31/12/12) right here & it's certainly not perfect in that respect, it'll def. respond to my wrists, base of my palms, or elbows, but def. not as much compared to using my finger tips etc.
I personally use the workaround of enabling "disable the trackpad when a mouse is detected" in my trackpad options. Then I just leave my wireless mouse/kb receiver plugged in to my laptop all the time and turn the devices on/off with their own switches as I use them. If I need the trackpad because I forgot my mouse, I manually enable it. Putting a trackpad where your wrists rest has been bad design since the dawn of the laptop unfortunately :/
Wait, so using the additional magnetic strip actually *reduces* the rigidity of the keyboard? How does that work (in my mind, giving it an additional anchor point should increase rigidity)?
Lifting it up will keep it kind of suspended in the air. So you will definitely feel some flex while typing. But yeah, the overall stability of the device is increased against toppling. I think he complained about the flex..
Chrome does support high DPI screens, just not 'out of the box' yet. You need to go into chrome:flags and turn on a couple of options, then the UI will be properly scaled as you'd expect. It still doesn't scroll and zoom as smoothly as IE though, or render text as nicely which is why I've mostly switched back to IE now, especially on touchscreen devices.
WTF is up with Chrome anyway? I remember when they were at the forefront of features and tech but nowadays they suck so much I'm about to go back to Firefox.
Unless you think a browser's killer feature is to run Google+ Apps (right on the desktop!!!!!11oneone) Chrome doesn't really advance much.
"although it’s certainly not the 10-20 second wake latency that I’ve come to expect on my hard drive-based desktop."
I never understood this - I can start working again with my 5 year old Dell Studio 15 after about 4 seconds of waking it from sleep. What device has a 20 second wake latency nowadays?
One of the more interesting parts of the keynote for the Surface Pro 3 was when Panay put the device in his lap, and with the kickstand, it barely sat there, even tucked into his gut. Pic here (from TheRegister : http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/05/20/surface_pro_3_lap...
I saw that picture and just couldn't imagine it working as anything other than 'better than a tablet', which for typing when sitting, isn't really *that* much of a compliment.
If you had the choice of a moderately specced ultrabook, or SP3 for doing the article/liveblog, given the amount of typing you had to do and presumably a fair amount of footwork to get around the show, which would you have one for? Is the SP3, in that specific instance, a better choice than an equivalent priced ultrabook?
SP3 has much better value if you don't consider the tablet usage. Just compare the screen / weight /battery life to other ultrabooks. And you can always use third party keyboards (or even a full-blown mechanical desktop keyboard)
Google is not fixing the Chrome with win8.1 for ages... so I had to go back to IE11 for my win8 tablet. It is actually much better than chrome (faster, eats up less battery, supports selection with touch)
I would like to commend Anandtech for not rushing a review out like the rest of the tech press, actually giving the device a fair chance, and not just concluding its not a MacBook Air followed by a average score.
Most of the reviews I have read has focused entirely on how the SF3 is to use as a journalist, at least implicitly. However, they seem to forget who they are writing the review for... my guess is that most of their readers are not journalists.
Your first and single most irritation issue - go into PC settings\PC and Devices\Mouse and touchpad and change the setting at the bottom of the screen - this adjusts the sensitivity for taps on the trackpad and overcomes poorly disciplined stray fingers, cufflinks, etc.
Nice review thanks... If you added chrome then adding the start button app too would be fair. otherwise you are just adding sub-par apps and reporting that. IExplorer works great and if you are a WP phone user its a smarter choice for the browser sync features. But there have been a few things updated for the release so hopefully they fixed the alt issue ( or maybe just a issue with the one you tested? as no other reviewer had that issue)
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theNiZer - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Thank you for posting this Joshua Ho. And it would be great if you could follow up on these issues as well!Drumsticks - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Thank you! This is encouraging to be honest as most of those sound like software bugs that could be fixed very soon. I'm personally waiting on y'all's review before I decide if I want one or of I should hang on for broadwell. Battery life is another concern as other websites don't seem to be giving the results you'd expect from 15% better than SP2, but your tests are the best. Any hints to how long you will be?iSmug - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
I too am waiting for the full Anandtech review before pre-ordering. Hope it comes soon!JeffFlanagan - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
I'm waiting for the Surface Pro 4, assuming they fix the poor design choice of placing the Windows button right where a hand rests to draw on the thing.http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/s...
jhoff80 - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
The Pro 2 currently disables the Windows button when the pen is in range. I suspect as soon as Microsoft tweaks that on the Pro 3, nobody will care in the slightest where the Windows button is.What I'm personally more concerned about is the location of the light sensor for portrait mode. If you use the top of the device on the right in portrait (like the start button location pushes you to do on the Pro 3), that means that if past history is any guide, you'll be covering and uncovering the light sensor as you write. That causes obnoxious backlight changes (and is why I use my Pro 2 with the button on the right / light sensor on the left in portrait). Hopefully Microsoft thought enough about that this time around as well.
Bunchofsage - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - link
I'm doing the same when in portrait mode, but it also gives the opportunity to snap in the stylus on top of your device (rathan than where your belly is)nico_mach - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
It's bonkers to me that it has the same keyboard bug (alt-key is permanently 'depressed' in Windows until keyboard is unplugged) that I get on a 6 yr old work thinkpad with windows 7. On their 3rd version! But it IS pre-release and I'm sure they can get that much ironed out before release.basroil - Thursday, June 5, 2014 - link
It sounds like a simple sticky keys issue (press it five times in a row and it'll get "stuck"), or perhaps a related software error in this case (as opposed to the gummy switch issue in older keyboards)Bunchofsage - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - link
Didn't know that it is such an old persistent OS-problem. Thought it's Surface's fault?!mkozakewich - Friday, June 6, 2014 - link
Well, from my experience with the first Surface Pro, they seem to be pretty good with updates. They managed to get Wacom to make the older drivers to support the Surface Pro's screen, and they fixed the FN key problem after a month or two. They've still got a lot of work to do on their drivers, though, and they've still not fixed the problems with the trackpad on the original keyboard cover.nathanddrews - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Those damn trackpads... They never seem to turn off when you want them to. A couple of my laptops have a FN key that disables it, but it turns right back on after waking from sleep or after each reboot... and sometimes for no reason. Very annoying.What's needed is a hardware switch, even though it would add a slight cost to the machine. I had a Dell years ago had one and it was great.
uhuznaa - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Not to beat some drum here, but Apple has nailed this quite perfectly on the Macbook trackpads, it stubbornly ignores everything that doesn't look like a fingertip. You can tap and swipe it with your wrists or the ball of your thumb all day long.Homeles - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
I've found that most Windows laptops these days with up to date drivers work comparably to MacBooks, but it seems to be an issue that never gets hammered out before a device launches, and instead get taken care of ~1 year later as an optional update that doesn't make it to most users.nico_mach - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
That's happened to me, too, but it's crazy that this happens to MS as well.jed22281 - Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - link
Hmm, got a rMBP (31/12/12) right here & it's certainly not perfect in that respect, it'll def. respond to my wrists, base of my palms, or elbows, but def. not as much compared to using my finger tips etc.Mushkins - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
I personally use the workaround of enabling "disable the trackpad when a mouse is detected" in my trackpad options. Then I just leave my wireless mouse/kb receiver plugged in to my laptop all the time and turn the devices on/off with their own switches as I use them. If I need the trackpad because I forgot my mouse, I manually enable it. Putting a trackpad where your wrists rest has been bad design since the dawn of the laptop unfortunately :/londedoganet - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Wait, so using the additional magnetic strip actually *reduces* the rigidity of the keyboard? How does that work (in my mind, giving it an additional anchor point should increase rigidity)?rituraj - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Lifting it up will keep it kind of suspended in the air. So you will definitely feel some flex while typing. But yeah, the overall stability of the device is increased against toppling. I think he complained about the flex..Doh! - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Using two (2) spaces after a complete sentence would make the article easier to read.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
While there's nothing wrong with 2 spaces, the official MLA guidelines call for 1 space:http://www.mla.org/style/style_faq/mlastyle_spaces
Oyster - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Thanks for pointing it out, Ryan. Hate it when people poke and prod with shit that has nothing to do with the issues at hand.steven75 - Thursday, June 5, 2014 - link
Nope. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technolog...paradyne - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Chrome does support high DPI screens, just not 'out of the box' yet. You need to go into chrome:flags and turn on a couple of options, then the UI will be properly scaled as you'd expect. It still doesn't scroll and zoom as smoothly as IE though, or render text as nicely which is why I've mostly switched back to IE now, especially on touchscreen devices.nutshell42 - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
WTF is up with Chrome anyway? I remember when they were at the forefront of features and tech but nowadays they suck so much I'm about to go back to Firefox.Unless you think a browser's killer feature is to run Google+ Apps (right on the desktop!!!!!11oneone) Chrome doesn't really advance much.
tipoo - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
"although it’s certainly not the 10-20 second wake latency that I’ve come to expect on my hard drive-based desktop."I never understood this - I can start working again with my 5 year old Dell Studio 15 after about 4 seconds of waking it from sleep. What device has a 20 second wake latency nowadays?
tipoo - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Ah, I missed the "desktop" bit.Beany2013 - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
One of the more interesting parts of the keynote for the Surface Pro 3 was when Panay put the device in his lap, and with the kickstand, it barely sat there, even tucked into his gut. Pic here (from TheRegister : http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/05/20/surface_pro_3_lap...I saw that picture and just couldn't imagine it working as anything other than 'better than a tablet', which for typing when sitting, isn't really *that* much of a compliment.
If you had the choice of a moderately specced ultrabook, or SP3 for doing the article/liveblog, given the amount of typing you had to do and presumably a fair amount of footwork to get around the show, which would you have one for? Is the SP3, in that specific instance, a better choice than an equivalent priced ultrabook?
nerd1 - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
SP3 has much better value if you don't consider the tablet usage. Just compare the screen / weight /battery life to other ultrabooks. And you can always use third party keyboards (or even a full-blown mechanical desktop keyboard)nerd1 - Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - link
Google is not fixing the Chrome with win8.1 for ages... so I had to go back to IE11 for my win8 tablet. It is actually much better than chrome (faster, eats up less battery, supports selection with touch)egil - Thursday, June 5, 2014 - link
I would like to commend Anandtech for not rushing a review out like the rest of the tech press, actually giving the device a fair chance, and not just concluding its not a MacBook Air followed by a average score.Most of the reviews I have read has focused entirely on how the SF3 is to use as a journalist, at least implicitly. However, they seem to forget who they are writing the review for... my guess is that most of their readers are not journalists.
HisDivineOrder - Sunday, June 8, 2014 - link
That touchpad problem would drive me craaaaazy.tsay - Sunday, June 15, 2014 - link
Your first and single most irritation issue - go into PC settings\PC and Devices\Mouse and touchpad and change the setting at the bottom of the screen - this adjusts the sensitivity for taps on the trackpad and overcomes poorly disciplined stray fingers, cufflinks, etc.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - link
"Microsoft just needs to fix some bugs." - Maybe you need to form a better relationship with MS :) See below:http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/06/16/s...
whatsa - Friday, June 20, 2014 - link
Nice review thanks...If you added chrome then adding the start button app too would be fair.
otherwise you are just adding sub-par apps and reporting that.
IExplorer works great and if you are a WP phone user its a smarter choice for the browser sync
features.
But there have been a few things updated for the release so hopefully they fixed the alt issue ( or maybe just a issue with the one you tested? as no other reviewer had that issue)