Heh, it's ridiculous how we all expect to see reviews of super new fancy-shpancy gadgets. While this article just shouts "OLD!!!" to the OS used in this phone, I still have to say this:
[bold]This OS does the job[/bold] unlike certain other OS(s) where a simple reminder is a useless feature because it only reminds if you're sitting on the phone at the time, where you are only notified of a call when it stops "ringing" (not that it rang in the first place), etc.
While the newest gadgets may look cool, feature some super impressive HW and SW, they really tend to forget a phone's basic functions.
That said, it's a shame this phone has such a pathetic screen.
"The one other idiosyncratic move on Nokia's part was to not allow entering contacts by name in the texting application. In this day and age, having to remember and enter a contact's number instead of just typing their name with the phone suggesting contacts as you type is laughable. There is a way to “Add Recipient(s)” via the menu, but this is a smartphone, and it’s not the year 2000. Come on guys, get it together."
I have a Nokia E71 and it does allow this feature. Given that it's similar software, I think you might need to investigate further to make sure it's not available (Because it is rather picky).
You are correct Druken.Swagger. As pointed out by Akdor 1154 later on, clicking on the center button in the "To" field shows the contact list. Why they didn't make it "type ahead" capable, I don't know. :)
I have an E71 too. You can start typing in a name, and once you press the middle button it will list all the matches in your contacts list.
If I type 'Jess' and click enter, it'll list "Jesse B, Jessica G...." for example
In general there's a lot of clever little functions tucked away in the default OS, although the app store selection is AWFUL! And nobody makes new programs =(
S40 phones also open contact list with the center button. Also, you can write your message first and if the recepient field is empty the concact list is opened (with favourites on top, if added.). I don't think I've ever seen a Nokia phone that forces you to remember the number...
Type ahead can be a bit problematic, if your recipient uses several numbers. Perhaps not a bad idea, but since I'm usually sending text messages to a limited number of people, selecting the name from recently used list is faster.
The Symbian operating system has at least a couple newer versions: the S60 3rd Edition (feature pack 2) is still sold, but the Symbian S60 5th Edition is newer, and the open source Symbians (^1, ^2 and ^3) are newer still.
Yeah, Actually Symbian is about as "old" as Windows is.
The only problem with it (on smartphones) is they (for political reasons) chose S60 instead of perfecting UIQ which was WAY ahead of its time when it came smartphone UI's ... :(
This phone does look great... but its screen, camera and OS are vastly out-dated, and so what its its targeted towards "BUSINESS USERS". When an Android, WM7 and iPhones offer far more for the same price - why would they be caught using something that is frustrating to use?
There are some Android & WM7 phones that have slide-out keyboards... check.
I did play the video you made with this phone... its HORRIBLE. I recorded a 720-HD quality video on my Samsung Galaxy-S phone, it LOOKS great, sounds very good... with its high-res AMOLED screen, it looks almost as good as real-life.
At&t (and I gather others), sell the Galaxy-S for $100~150 with a contract.
Internet ability rocks and that is important for business. (GPS on Samsung still sucks)
I remember when I last had a NOKIA phone, and I never looked back. Using SONY for years until I went to Android.
The top 3 phone WILL be Android, WM7 and iPhone... RIM is still behind, MS has done good research (wow). Where is NOKIA?
"When an Android, WM7 and iPhones offer far more for the same price"
Same price? I don't think so. Well, maybe _some_ Android phones can be had for that money, but that's it. The iPhone is 2x-3x the price of this Nokia.*
I'm not a fan of Symbian or Nokia, but let's be real, it will still sell because it's relatively cheap. (Still too expensive IMO and I'd probably rather get an Android or wait for Meego phones.)
*if you're talking about the price on contract with the US carriers, that's a different story. The price of US smartphones on contract are all pretty much the same, +- $50, because you're required to get the same expensive "smartphone plan", no matter which phone you choose. But that's a specific market which doesn't reflect most of the world's prices or the off contract prices.
While he may be wrong, "Powerful stupid" does not fit...
I agree that those three are currently the best for the most people and will end up 1, 2 and 3 as things currently stand but of course RIM/Nokia and especially WebOS could make top 3 if they get their acts together.
I based my opinion on... educated guess and how the market works. Until I saw the WM7 in action (somewhat - on Andandtech) - I figured it'll be junk. But it's still a rather updated 6.5 with more power.
MS looked at iPhone and Android and said "hmmmm... what can we do to make OUR product different and actually better." The big squares look like they'll function better - direct to the point of the function you want with a quick swipe access to more apps.
WM7 will do very well because of MS's marketing but also, unlike before - MS has several hardware partners (HTC, Samsung) selling about 12 models out the gate. While there are only 7 different black berries, half of them on the market for a year. Apple only makes 1-2 models of iPhone... but they are easily skinable.
So with the OS improvements, close work with partners - yes, WM7 will be giving Android some good competition. I don't think WM7 - these three different phones have their strengths and weakness. I have an Android Galaxy-S, and so does one of my business partners... I think he'd do better with the WM7, but it wasn't out when his blackberry died, which he doesn't miss.
I NEVER meet a blackberry phone that I liked.
I prefer the more open design of Android... and I hope 3.0 will take some clues from MS and streamline some of the operations of the phone. I'd like to see a smaller grid... perhaps 3 icons across. Improved unlocked-swipe... yeah, the jig-saw looks cool, but its a PAIN in the butt in ways it shouldn't be.
The battery usage of Android needs to be enhanced.
With limited models, iPhone will end up #3 in about 2-3 years... IMHO.
My prediction by 2013 1 - Android 2 - Windows Mobile 3 - iPhone 4 - RIM 5 - Dumb-phones & Palm & Symbian - which is semi-smart.
Market share for #5 will be reduced... new generation of users will not want dumber phones. I've only recently gone from dumb cell to smart... most of it has been good experience with room for improvement.
Belard, I see your point. And having used a Palm Pre Plus as my primary phone for the last couple of months, it was almost jarring when I first used the E5.
But the Blackberries seem to be selling quite well only because they are tailored for their target market. With the E5, Nokia is trying to do just that.
Also, most of the uber-phones listed sell for $150-199 on contract. If I remember correct, i saw it for $170 without a contract a couple of days ago. Plus, if you're going to use this primarily as a business phone (mail/messaging only), you can get away with the $15 unlimited data plan that AT&T offers for its "dumb" phones. That's a lot of savings over 2 years.... :)
A friend went from a blackberry to Android... it was a huge improvement. He's had his blackberry for about a year (one of the recent models) - the screen, internet, texting, etc... improved experience going to a Galaxy-S. Even thou the Galaxy isn't perfect.... ;(
At&t at walmart has the Galaxy-S for $100 on 2yr contract. The data-plan is $25, with unlimited texting. There are times WHEN I do need an internet connection with a usable browser.
Using my old SONY at the moment... its still NICE to sometimes have just a dumb-phone.
I'm a little amuse that you think a Samsung Galaxy could be a business phone.
Mine was sitting on my nightstand when I left for work at like 9am, unplugged from the power source, and whne I was back at around 1030pm, it's already complaining loud and clear that I need to charge the battery. It's got nothing on, but 3 very low traffic email accounts. No IM. Maybe a google reader feed being updated.
I've used both a Bold2 and a Torch, and all of them will last at least a day with corporate levels of email.
I don't have high hopes for this BlackBerry knockoff to last that long when a user actually has any kind of email load.
I'm not Nokia fan, but, if you have a lot of time to spend "touching" your phone, then go android, go iPhone,go WM7 or WM6.5.... i was using all those platforms and i can assure you, there is no better OS if you want to QUICKLY write SMS, check / write e-mail, quickly send photo as MMS... in the "rush" business hours, my Nokia E52, does the greatest job. After work, my "toy" Samsung Omnia helps me to watch divx or make a nice photos. But E52 (or any other Nokia business model) is the right tool. BlackBerry is in the same class i guess, as i never use it. But my frinds say it's best, for business, not for fun! :)
A couple of thoughts - 1: On my E55, and every other S60 device I've used, clicking the centre button while in the contact number field of a new SMS will open the contact list, which can be searched by typing the contact's name. Does the E5 remove this behaviour? 2: Have they fixed the bloody email system to use Destinations instead of Access Points? This is a huge irk for me as it means I have to constantly change settings to have email come over wifi. To make things more confusing, currently "onboard" email accounts CAN use destinations, however Nokia Messaging accounts (i.e. Push email) cannot; they need to be set to a distinct access point.
1. You are correct on this. Looks like the functionality exists, but just isn't as straightforward. Thanks for pointing it out! :)
2. Nope, it's still the same old frustrating "Access Points". However, it does come with an app called "SmartConnect" installed that let's you group multiple AP's into one AP. So you can group all your frequently used WiFi AP's under one heading and use that instead. Clunky, but it works! :)
It's been a great review as usual, but I'd like to make a point when you state "build quality". Who has forgotten his phone over the rooftop of the car, dropped it by accident or just throw it away by mere anger?
The only phone I've seen survive almost every adversity from clumsy use are Nokia's. Hell, I even got a story from a friend who threw his like 20 or 30 mts to the next-next house into a concrete wall and survived with a scratch (the good old 5120, lol). I doubt these will do the same, but I'd like to strengthen the point in "build quality" here. Nokia deserves a 5 star rating in that department, but it's not just about "details" on the final build, but endurance also comes into account.
I disagree. The older "dumbphone" Nokias like the 5120 are indestructable. My N95 held up worse than my BlackBerry. While it never "broke", all it took was one or two drops on the pavement and the exterior looked like I'd kept it in a blender.
I agree. My N82 didn't fare any better, and I didn't drop it. However, my Bold 9000 held up alright after a few drops, and my Bold2 9700 looks just like I bought it (and fumbles here have dropped that one too).
Nokia's build quality has been circling the drain for quite a while. It's even more apparent with their feature phones.
Thank you, great review. It's too bad you didn't look at Exchange functionality though -- it's pretty important for a lot of business users, and many smartphones (in my experience) have iffy Exchange support. You could have downloaded a 120-day trial of Exchange Server 2010 and had it installed in a VM in a few hours. It's actually pretty easy to install and configure (especially compared to stuff like sendmail!).
Isn't there a native Opera Mini 5.2 for Symbian? Opera Mobile 10 hangs like crazy on my Blackjack 2, but Opera Mini makes my browsing on the Blackjack 2 almost as good as my Fiance's Iphone.
As I can tell, this Phone is pretty similar in speed (hardware spec) to the old Blackjack 2, so using Opera Mini 5 would drastically change that part of the review.
Actually if I'm not mistaken, Opera Mobile is for smartphones while Mini is for java-only phones. Plus, installing Mini would have skewed the results/experience because in case of Mini, the actual rendering engine in on the Opera servers, not in the phone itself (unlike Opera Mobile).
But I didn't have any issues with Opera Mobile. It worked fine by itself... :)
My E63 has had Opera Mini since (4.6?) and it is much inproved from the default browser. I actually believe there is some sort of conflict with opera 10 and S60 (again speaking from experience with my E63). As this phone is in-between the E63 and E72 I think Opera Mini should be used if anyone plans to buy this phone.
I think the comments about some features that don't work well not being important because this phone is aimed at business users is well off the mark. Business users want the same phones everyone else uses. It's not likely they will be thinking; Ohh, a cheap Nokia with few features that only does a few things right, just what I want! And there is a reason why they are leaving their BB's for iPhones and the like. They no longer just want to message. They want to do the same things we all do, and do it on a phone that their friends and business partners won't laugh at.
This may have been a sellable phone Pre iPhone, but not any more. This is why Nokia has been losing serious marketshare around the world. They need to make bold moves, not this. At any rate, it won't sell more than a handful here in the States.
They are? I know business users who are ditching the iphone for android, and then realizing they have been missing out on a bunch of features Apple hasn't "invented" yet. This phone will sell, just like the Nokia e71and e72 did, and the buyers will be people who know what they want, not those that buy something because your neighbor has one.
It depends what you understand by "cheap"? For some people that appreciate build quality and feel inside your hand (you can actually hold a Nokia in you hand and make a phone call) is more important and valued than some useless application that we would never use because I have to many things going on to be f-ing around with our phone. The phone might be relatively inexpensive, but it is definately not cheap. Samsung Galaxy is cheap. Just like car interiors - future rich can feel cheap; simple can scream luxary. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder. I am sure the guy with the E52 above would not trade his phone for an I phone in a million years.
sick and tired of being overcharged on both phone, service and texting while being tied to contracts with termination fees and terms that keep getting longer.
I've been selling and performing service on mobile phone for a decade now. I see how trends change, and what stays the same. I see what different people are looking for and what they need.
Conclusion: 1. The average user is dumb! 2. The average user does NEVER EVER read anything of the documentation that comes with the phone, and they have no interest or skill in reading up info on what their phone can do. They want to make a call. That's it.
The average user does not need a more advanced phone then the Motorola Micro Tac from the early 90's.. - They make a few phone calls. They have less than 25 numbers in their phone book. About 25% of our customers don't have a single number stored in the phone book. Their callers log show 1-4 numbers. - They send a few text messages. Many does never ever send messages. The average user buys a lot of different brands and models. Everything from phones that's made for developing countries to top models (which they never ever use more then 10% of the functions on). Many of them buy iPhones too. They are not advanced users.
Then you have the young user which use the phone differently depending on their sex. The boys start to add porn pics and video on their phone when their like 10 years +. They never seem to stop adding porn as they get older. A phone with a good screen and that is able to play several video formats is good. Being able to play you tube videos is good. They send text messages... and switch over to e-mail as they get older. The girls.. they want a good screen, and if they have facebook, twitter and stuff like that .. they're happy. And.. they send a LOT of SMS messages. They don't buy their own phone. They are asking their parents for iPhones, or Android based phones. Some have Nokia too. Nobody uses Blackberry.
Then you have those that was born in 1965 - 198X.. They are changed in two groups.. one is very technically capable - and they have advanced phones like the Nokia N900 where they can do a lot of stuff. Make their own code and software. Use it to watch movies. Connect it to the TV/projector and stuff like that. They use it so surf a lot, and they may use facebook, skype, twitter and what not. They have paid for the phone themselves. Most of these users have Android based phones due to price, what's "hip" and things like that. Nobody uses Blackberry. It is not very likely that they have an iPhone. You also have a few people in this group that use old Nokia phones like N95.. yeah.. they're still working. And they use all the functions the phone can use. Some use iPhones, but they tend to change them for Android based phones or Nokia because of the limitations of what you are allowed to do. They also look more on the specifications on the phones they buy. They may not always buy a top spec phone - buy it can do all the functions they require. They pay for their own phone.
Then you have students.. that is a mix of all the above. Many that changed to iPhone a few years back are now iPhone users. There are some customers that use iPhone no matter what. If jobs changed the color of the phone every 3 month.. they would buy a new phone every 3 month. That is a very nice customer to have. We have them outside the store for several days before a new iPhone is released. Apple have a group of super loyal customers here. No matter what the phone costs, they will buy it. Some buy their own phones, and some get the phone from their parents.
The business user: They want a phone with a keyboard and a good e-mail solution and a web browser. They go for a mix of Nokia and Android based phones from HTC and Samsung. maybe 5% of them go for iPhone.. Most of them get the phone from their employer. They usually have to buy a phone in a specific price range. That exclude the more expensive phones, and so the E5 will be in their price range. 75% of them buy a very simple phone. They hardly need no camera and MP3 player. They don't need to view video and so on. If have to be solid. It can not fail if it falls to the floor. It must have OK battery capability. A color screen is not the most important thing for them. It must be easy to connect to a PC without any special software just to drag and drop a few files. But they all like to have the ability to sync the calendars and stuff like that. We see more and more that they want a phone with a good web browser and that can play moves and pod casts. This is a growing need because they waste a lot of time in airports and train terminals. It they can watch their favorite show or movie..it's a plus. I see a lot of ads from our competitors too. We wanted to try to see if we could sell the Nokia N900 to every group. So we made 4 adds. One for business, one for young users, one for students and one for the general user. We had success with this phone on 3 groups. We included a 5 hours business user class for 100 dollars including lunch. We explained all the advantages and functions of the N900 - and we sold many of those. This is a phone or pocket PC with a phone option if you like.. They loved this model. All you need is the class to teach it to them They will not read a book. They also loved the option to connect it to a projector, so they could drop the laptop too meetings at customers. We sold it to young users with focus on the video and chatting functions. Free skype calls on the schools network and stuff like that. We helped them to set it up.. and they asked their parents for a new phone.. we showed them how to use group calls too. Which all phones can do. They loved that they could The tech hungry users bought this phone too in quite large numbers. They liked the Linux functions x-terminal and stuff like that. And the pod and torrent functions. The novice users are not interested in a phone like that. It is to expensive and the just use it to call a few people. That's is. 65% of all customers are in this group... They buy dirt cheap phones. Some of them want to buy the cheapest phone we have. If they are focused on image - they buy a more expensive phone (like the iPhone) or a phone that have a special color. No matter what brand it is. And you have those that bought a Nokia 15 years ago.. and they keep on buying a Nokia every time. They change the phone when the battery dies.. or after they have changed the battery once. The seniors buy phones with large keys and a screen which is easy to read. It the phone have 3 separate keys that we can program with phone numbers for them they are sold. Our sales number so far for 2010 is: HTC (27%), Nokia(42%), Samsung( 12%) and iPhone(9%) are the phones we sell most of. LG and other brands is just about 5-10% of the total market. We have a surprisingly high numbers of customers that have ordered the Samsung pad. It is really a hit with business customers too. And we see a lot of truck companies that will have one in each and every one of the trucks they have. This will outsell the iPad in 2011. We would never have thought that. But with the GPS and phone capabilities.. it is easy to sell. We just need a slightly lower price..
I forgot to add the sony ericsson that we started to sell in december. We started to sell them 2nd dec and we have sold a lot. maybe 30% of the december sales so far.
Maybe it has to do with a TV ad that they run now, or the good test scores. Sone Ericsson have a winner in the experia models. If this continue the other brands will have to prove themselves next year. btw the university bought about 1000 Nokia E7/N900 for the staff. we though that was a big sale - before a store chain bought a lot of experia phones as a christmas gift for their employees. with free use for 2011,
We would have expected the iPhone 4 to sell better, but the antenna problem, and all the broken screens have resulted in slow sales.. except for the first two weeks. If the iPhone 5 is any good, we will probably sell many of those. if it comes before the 3G batteries fail. we expect many of the 3G and iPhone 4 will buy the new model - even though many have changed to a android based phone. if blackberry phones does not start to sell more, we'll have to stop selling them.
we sell a lot of extra stuff for the Nokias too. We seem to sel a bluetooth headset or handsfree option for every phone we sell. We make more and more money on teaching people to use their phone too. We have classes for everything from "dumb" phones to smart phones. People are surprised of how many functions a dumb or semi dumb phone have. Many buy a phone for the gadget functions, and forget about what they need the phone for. now many buys a simple dumb phone for calling, and use the other for the rest. if you just want to make a call. a phone without a color screen, wifi and other stuff that kills batteries will have to be charged once or twice every 14 days. it is small, super quick to dial and to turn on and off. I have a semidumb phone too, but only as a spare - and for when I do stuff that can destroy my smart phone. . like kayaking, climbing and stuff like that. I have bluetooth connected and I can take a few calls or listen to audio books or music.
I can't wait to see how the slate/pad market will affect the use of two phones. we see the samsung pad have replaced some smart phones. they buy a pad and then they buy a more simple phone - that is very good at makeing calls. . and not much more. maybe play mp3 and have a radio. . but that's it. The samsung pad fits in a suit pocket. use a handsfee solutions and it does the job as a phone - and it replaces a laptop in many cases.
I think a lot of transportation companies can use the samsung pad as a gps, as a laptop and as a phone. we will start to use it in our service cars from january next year. given all its uses, the price is fairly OK as well.
i bought one. so far so good. biggest issue is getting skype on it. There's skype app for euro users but for some reason, its not available for americans in the ovi store. i would bail on skype if so many of my friends didn't use the damn app.
also, the free gps thing, sometimes the red dot doesn't show up for me. its definitely a cool feature though, especially since i started to travel alot.
For smooth performance, regular software updates, and a great design, we would recommend the <a href " https://youmobile.com.pk/phone/723/nokia-5-price-i... "> Nokia 5.1. If you want something better </a> Nokia 5.1. If you want something better in taking photos, the Honor 9 Lite is a great choice, thanks to its better imaging setup. Overall though, the Vivo Y81 is a great package, as it gets the biggest screen, largest battery, and a very new 2018 design. It also sits between the two products in terms of pricing.
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velis - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Heh, it's ridiculous how we all expect to see reviews of super new fancy-shpancy gadgets.While this article just shouts "OLD!!!" to the OS used in this phone, I still have to say this:
[bold]This OS does the job[/bold] unlike certain other OS(s) where a simple reminder is a useless feature because it only reminds if you're sitting on the phone at the time, where you are only notified of a call when it stops "ringing" (not that it rang in the first place), etc.
While the newest gadgets may look cool, feature some super impressive HW and SW, they really tend to forget a phone's basic functions.
That said, it's a shame this phone has such a pathetic screen.
Drunken.Swagger - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
"The one other idiosyncratic move on Nokia's part was to not allow entering contacts by name in the texting application. In this day and age, having to remember and enter a contact's number instead of just typing their name with the phone suggesting contacts as you type is laughable. There is a way to “Add Recipient(s)” via the menu, but this is a smartphone, and it’s not the year 2000. Come on guys, get it together."I have a Nokia E71 and it does allow this feature. Given that it's similar software, I think you might need to investigate further to make sure it's not available (Because it is rather picky).
mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
You are correct Druken.Swagger. As pointed out by Akdor 1154 later on, clicking on the center button in the "To" field shows the contact list. Why they didn't make it "type ahead" capable, I don't know. :)deeyo - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
I have an E71 too. You can start typing in a name, and once you press the middle button it will list all the matches in your contacts list.If I type 'Jess' and click enter, it'll list "Jesse B, Jessica G...." for example
In general there's a lot of clever little functions tucked away in the default OS, although the app store selection is AWFUL! And nobody makes new programs =(
ojisama - Wednesday, December 8, 2010 - link
S40 phones also open contact list with the center button. Also, you can write your message first and if the recepient field is empty the concact list is opened (with favourites on top, if added.). I don't think I've ever seen a Nokia phone that forces you to remember the number...Type ahead can be a bit problematic, if your recipient uses several numbers. Perhaps not a bad idea, but since I'm usually sending text messages to a limited number of people, selecting the name from recently used list is faster.
Calin - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
The Symbian operating system has at least a couple newer versions: the S60 3rd Edition (feature pack 2) is still sold, but the Symbian S60 5th Edition is newer, and the open source Symbians (^1, ^2 and ^3) are newer still.mino - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Yeah, Actually Symbian is about as "old" as Windows is.The only problem with it (on smartphones) is they (for political reasons) chose S60 instead of perfecting UIQ which was WAY ahead of its time when it came smartphone UI's ... :(
Belard - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
This phone does look great... but its screen, camera and OS are vastly out-dated, and so what its its targeted towards "BUSINESS USERS". When an Android, WM7 and iPhones offer far more for the same price - why would they be caught using something that is frustrating to use?There are some Android & WM7 phones that have slide-out keyboards... check.
I did play the video you made with this phone... its HORRIBLE. I recorded a 720-HD quality video on my Samsung Galaxy-S phone, it LOOKS great, sounds very good... with its high-res AMOLED screen, it looks almost as good as real-life.
At&t (and I gather others), sell the Galaxy-S for $100~150 with a contract.
Internet ability rocks and that is important for business. (GPS on Samsung still sucks)
I remember when I last had a NOKIA phone, and I never looked back. Using SONY for years until I went to Android.
The top 3 phone WILL be Android, WM7 and iPhone... RIM is still behind, MS has done good research (wow). Where is NOKIA?
thewhat - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
"When an Android, WM7 and iPhones offer far more for the same price"Same price? I don't think so. Well, maybe _some_ Android phones can be had for that money, but that's it. The iPhone is 2x-3x the price of this Nokia.*
I'm not a fan of Symbian or Nokia, but let's be real, it will still sell because it's relatively cheap. (Still too expensive IMO and I'd probably rather get an Android or wait for Meego phones.)
*if you're talking about the price on contract with the US carriers, that's a different story. The price of US smartphones on contract are all pretty much the same, +- $50, because you're required to get the same expensive "smartphone plan", no matter which phone you choose. But that's a specific market which doesn't reflect most of the world's prices or the off contract prices.
T2k - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
"The top 3 phone WILL be Android, WM7 and iPhone..."WOW, powerful stupid.
It'd surprising to see WM7 to reach even RIM sales...
deputc26 - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
While he may be wrong, "Powerful stupid" does not fit...I agree that those three are currently the best for the most people and will end up 1, 2 and 3 as things currently stand but of course RIM/Nokia and especially WebOS could make top 3 if they get their acts together.
Belard - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
I based my opinion on... educated guess and how the market works. Until I saw the WM7 in action (somewhat - on Andandtech) - I figured it'll be junk. But it's still a rather updated 6.5 with more power.MS looked at iPhone and Android and said "hmmmm... what can we do to make OUR product different and actually better." The big squares look like they'll function better - direct to the point of the function you want with a quick swipe access to more apps.
WM7 will do very well because of MS's marketing but also, unlike before - MS has several hardware partners (HTC, Samsung) selling about 12 models out the gate. While there are only 7 different black berries, half of them on the market for a year. Apple only makes 1-2 models of iPhone... but they are easily skinable.
So with the OS improvements, close work with partners - yes, WM7 will be giving Android some good competition. I don't think WM7 - these three different phones have their strengths and weakness. I have an Android Galaxy-S, and so does one of my business partners... I think he'd do better with the WM7, but it wasn't out when his blackberry died, which he doesn't miss.
I NEVER meet a blackberry phone that I liked.
I prefer the more open design of Android... and I hope 3.0 will take some clues from MS and streamline some of the operations of the phone. I'd like to see a smaller grid... perhaps 3 icons across. Improved unlocked-swipe... yeah, the jig-saw looks cool, but its a PAIN in the butt in ways it shouldn't be.
The battery usage of Android needs to be enhanced.
With limited models, iPhone will end up #3 in about 2-3 years... IMHO.
My prediction by 2013
1 - Android
2 - Windows Mobile
3 - iPhone
4 - RIM
5 - Dumb-phones & Palm & Symbian - which is semi-smart.
Market share for #5 will be reduced... new generation of users will not want dumber phones. I've only recently gone from dumb cell to smart... most of it has been good experience with room for improvement.
mino - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
You know, there are actually customers (90% of world market actually) that expect the phone to JUST WORK out of the box. No firmware update needed.Also there are customers not willing to shell out $300 for a mobile.
$1 with $20 plan being the target market of this device.
mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Belard, I see your point. And having used a Palm Pre Plus as my primary phone for the last couple of months, it was almost jarring when I first used the E5.But the Blackberries seem to be selling quite well only because they are tailored for their target market. With the E5, Nokia is trying to do just that.
Also, most of the uber-phones listed sell for $150-199 on contract. If I remember correct, i saw it for $170 without a contract a couple of days ago. Plus, if you're going to use this primarily as a business phone (mail/messaging only), you can get away with the $15 unlimited data plan that AT&T offers for its "dumb" phones. That's a lot of savings over 2 years.... :)
Belard - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
A friend went from a blackberry to Android... it was a huge improvement. He's had his blackberry for about a year (one of the recent models) - the screen, internet, texting, etc... improved experience going to a Galaxy-S. Even thou the Galaxy isn't perfect.... ;(At&t at walmart has the Galaxy-S for $100 on 2yr contract. The data-plan is $25, with unlimited texting. There are times WHEN I do need an internet connection with a usable browser.
Using my old SONY at the moment... its still NICE to sometimes have just a dumb-phone.
calyth - Friday, December 3, 2010 - link
I'm a little amuse that you think a Samsung Galaxy could be a business phone.Mine was sitting on my nightstand when I left for work at like 9am, unplugged from the power source, and whne I was back at around 1030pm, it's already complaining loud and clear that I need to charge the battery. It's got nothing on, but 3 very low traffic email accounts. No IM. Maybe a google reader feed being updated.
I've used both a Bold2 and a Torch, and all of them will last at least a day with corporate levels of email.
I don't have high hopes for this BlackBerry knockoff to last that long when a user actually has any kind of email load.
Exodite - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Very nice and detailed review, as usual.Can we expect any S^3 devices, primarily the N8 and E7, to be reviewed in the future?
mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
You should :)Exodite - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Sweet. :)digitalw - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
I'm not Nokia fan, but, if you have a lot of time to spend "touching" your phone, then go android, go iPhone,go WM7 or WM6.5.... i was using all those platforms and i can assure you, there is no better OS if you want to QUICKLY write SMS, check / write e-mail, quickly send photo as MMS... in the "rush" business hours, my Nokia E52, does the greatest job. After work, my "toy" Samsung Omnia helps me to watch divx or make a nice photos. But E52 (or any other Nokia business model) is the right tool. BlackBerry is in the same class i guess, as i never use it. But my frinds say it's best, for business, not for fun! :)digitalw - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
when picking the right phone for you, it is not to begin with the OS and CPU speed, your needs are first then pick the phone that match them :)Akdor 1154 - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Very nice for a first review. :)A couple of thoughts - 1: On my E55, and every other S60 device I've used, clicking the centre button while in the contact number field of a new SMS will open the contact list, which can be searched by typing the contact's name. Does the E5 remove this behaviour?
2: Have they fixed the bloody email system to use Destinations instead of Access Points? This is a huge irk for me as it means I have to constantly change settings to have email come over wifi. To make things more confusing, currently "onboard" email accounts CAN use destinations, however Nokia Messaging accounts (i.e. Push email) cannot; they need to be set to a distinct access point.
mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
1. You are correct on this. Looks like the functionality exists, but just isn't as straightforward. Thanks for pointing it out! :)2. Nope, it's still the same old frustrating "Access Points". However, it does come with an app called "SmartConnect" installed that let's you group multiple AP's into one AP. So you can group all your frequently used WiFi AP's under one heading and use that instead. Clunky, but it works! :)
YukaKun - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
It's been a great review as usual, but I'd like to make a point when you state "build quality". Who has forgotten his phone over the rooftop of the car, dropped it by accident or just throw it away by mere anger?The only phone I've seen survive almost every adversity from clumsy use are Nokia's. Hell, I even got a story from a friend who threw his like 20 or 30 mts to the next-next house into a concrete wall and survived with a scratch (the good old 5120, lol). I doubt these will do the same, but I'd like to strengthen the point in "build quality" here. Nokia deserves a 5 star rating in that department, but it's not just about "details" on the final build, but endurance also comes into account.
I'd love to see some sort of metric into that :P
Cheers!
PS: First post @AT, yay!
craig0ry - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
I disagree. The older "dumbphone" Nokias like the 5120 are indestructable. My N95 held up worse than my BlackBerry. While it never "broke", all it took was one or two drops on the pavement and the exterior looked like I'd kept it in a blender.calyth - Friday, December 3, 2010 - link
I agree. My N82 didn't fare any better, and I didn't drop it. However, my Bold 9000 held up alright after a few drops, and my Bold2 9700 looks just like I bought it (and fumbles here have dropped that one too).Nokia's build quality has been circling the drain for quite a while. It's even more apparent with their feature phones.
jisakujien - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Thank you, great review. It's too bad you didn't look at Exchange functionality though -- it's pretty important for a lot of business users, and many smartphones (in my experience) have iffy Exchange support. You could have downloaded a 120-day trial of Exchange Server 2010 and had it installed in a VM in a few hours. It's actually pretty easy to install and configure (especially compared to stuff like sendmail!).mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Good point. I will try to include this in future reviews with devices support MS Exchange :)Scholzpdx - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Isn't there a native Opera Mini 5.2 for Symbian? Opera Mobile 10 hangs like crazy on my Blackjack 2, but Opera Mini makes my browsing on the Blackjack 2 almost as good as my Fiance's Iphone.As I can tell, this Phone is pretty similar in speed (hardware spec) to the old Blackjack 2, so using Opera Mini 5 would drastically change that part of the review.
mythun.chandra - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
Actually if I'm not mistaken, Opera Mobile is for smartphones while Mini is for java-only phones. Plus, installing Mini would have skewed the results/experience because in case of Mini, the actual rendering engine in on the Opera servers, not in the phone itself (unlike Opera Mobile).But I didn't have any issues with Opera Mobile. It worked fine by itself... :)
anactoraaron - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
My E63 has had Opera Mini since (4.6?) and it is much inproved from the default browser. I actually believe there is some sort of conflict with opera 10 and S60 (again speaking from experience with my E63). As this phone is in-between the E63 and E72 I think Opera Mini should be used if anyone plans to buy this phone.melgross - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
I think the comments about some features that don't work well not being important because this phone is aimed at business users is well off the mark. Business users want the same phones everyone else uses. It's not likely they will be thinking; Ohh, a cheap Nokia with few features that only does a few things right, just what I want! And there is a reason why they are leaving their BB's for iPhones and the like. They no longer just want to message. They want to do the same things we all do, and do it on a phone that their friends and business partners won't laugh at.This may have been a sellable phone Pre iPhone, but not any more. This is why Nokia has been losing serious marketshare around the world. They need to make bold moves, not this. At any rate, it won't sell more than a handful here in the States.
munky - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
They are? I know business users who are ditching the iphone for android, and then realizing they have been missing out on a bunch of features Apple hasn't "invented" yet. This phone will sell, just like the Nokia e71and e72 did, and the buyers will be people who know what they want, not those that buy something because your neighbor has one.jonup - Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - link
It depends what you understand by "cheap"? For some people that appreciate build quality and feel inside your hand (you can actually hold a Nokia in you hand and make a phone call) is more important and valued than some useless application that we would never use because I have to many things going on to be f-ing around with our phone. The phone might be relatively inexpensive, but it is definately not cheap. Samsung Galaxy is cheap. Just like car interiors - future rich can feel cheap; simple can scream luxary. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder. I am sure the guy with the E52 above would not trade his phone for an I phone in a million years.fausto412 - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
sick and tired of being overcharged on both phone, service and texting while being tied to contracts with termination fees and terms that keep getting longer.LotecT1000 - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - link
I've been selling and performing service on mobile phone for a decade now.I see how trends change, and what stays the same.
I see what different people are looking for and what they need.
Conclusion:
1. The average user is dumb!
2. The average user does NEVER EVER read anything of the documentation that comes with the phone, and they have no interest or skill in reading up info on what their phone can do. They want to make a call. That's it.
The average user does not need a more advanced phone then the Motorola Micro Tac from the early 90's..
- They make a few phone calls. They have less than 25 numbers in their phone book. About 25% of our customers don't have a single number stored in the phone book. Their callers log show 1-4 numbers.
- They send a few text messages. Many does never ever send messages.
The average user buys a lot of different brands and models. Everything from phones that's made for developing countries to top models (which they never ever use more then 10% of the functions on). Many of them buy iPhones too. They are not advanced users.
Then you have the young user which use the phone differently depending on their sex.
The boys start to add porn pics and video on their phone when their like 10 years +. They never seem to stop adding porn as they get older. A phone with a good screen and that is able to play several video formats is good. Being able to play you tube videos is good.
They send text messages... and switch over to e-mail as they get older.
The girls.. they want a good screen, and if they have facebook, twitter and stuff like that .. they're happy. And.. they send a LOT of SMS messages.
They don't buy their own phone. They are asking their parents for iPhones, or Android based phones. Some have Nokia too. Nobody uses Blackberry.
Then you have those that was born in 1965 - 198X..
They are changed in two groups.. one is very technically capable - and they have advanced phones like the Nokia N900 where they can do a lot of stuff. Make their own code and software. Use it to watch movies. Connect it to the TV/projector and stuff like that. They use it so surf a lot, and they may use facebook, skype, twitter and what not. They have paid for the phone themselves. Most of these users have Android based phones due to price, what's "hip" and things like that. Nobody uses Blackberry. It is not very likely that they have an iPhone.
You also have a few people in this group that use old Nokia phones like N95.. yeah.. they're still working. And they use all the functions the phone can use. Some use iPhones, but they tend to change them for Android based phones or Nokia because of the limitations of what you are allowed to do. They also look more on the specifications on the phones they buy. They may not always buy a top spec phone - buy it can do all the functions they require.
They pay for their own phone.
Then you have students.. that is a mix of all the above. Many that changed to iPhone a few years back are now iPhone users. There are some customers that use iPhone no matter what. If jobs changed the color of the phone every 3 month.. they would buy a new phone every 3 month. That is a very nice customer to have. We have them outside the store for several days before a new iPhone is released. Apple have a group of super loyal customers here. No matter what the phone costs, they will buy it.
Some buy their own phones, and some get the phone from their parents.
The business user:
They want a phone with a keyboard and a good e-mail solution and a web browser.
They go for a mix of Nokia and Android based phones from HTC and Samsung. maybe 5% of them go for iPhone..
Most of them get the phone from their employer. They usually have to buy a phone in a specific price range. That exclude the more expensive phones, and so the E5 will be in their price range.
75% of them buy a very simple phone. They hardly need no camera and MP3 player. They don't need to view video and so on. If have to be solid. It can not fail if it falls to the floor. It must have OK battery capability. A color screen is not the most important thing for them.
It must be easy to connect to a PC without any special software just to drag and drop a few files. But they all like to have the ability to sync the calendars and stuff like that.
We see more and more that they want a phone with a good web browser and that can play moves and pod casts. This is a growing need because they waste a lot of time in airports and train terminals. It they can watch their favorite show or movie..it's a plus.
I see a lot of ads from our competitors too. We wanted to try to see if we could sell the Nokia N900 to every group. So we made 4 adds. One for business, one for young users, one for students and one for the general user.
We had success with this phone on 3 groups.
We included a 5 hours business user class for 100 dollars including lunch. We explained all the advantages and functions of the N900 - and we sold many of those. This is a phone or pocket PC with a phone option if you like.. They loved this model. All you need is the class to teach it to them They will not read a book.
They also loved the option to connect it to a projector, so they could drop the laptop too meetings at customers.
We sold it to young users with focus on the video and chatting functions. Free skype calls on the schools network and stuff like that. We helped them to set it up.. and they asked their parents for a new phone.. we showed them how to use group calls too. Which all phones can do. They loved that they could
The tech hungry users bought this phone too in quite large numbers. They liked the Linux functions x-terminal and stuff like that. And the pod and torrent functions.
The novice users are not interested in a phone like that. It is to expensive and the just use it to call a few people. That's is. 65% of all customers are in this group...
They buy dirt cheap phones. Some of them want to buy the cheapest phone we have. If they are focused on image - they buy a more expensive phone (like the iPhone) or a phone that have a special color. No matter what brand it is. And you have those that bought a Nokia 15 years ago.. and they keep on buying a Nokia every time. They change the phone when the battery dies.. or after they have changed the battery once.
The seniors buy phones with large keys and a screen which is easy to read. It the phone have 3 separate keys that we can program with phone numbers for them they are sold.
Our sales number so far for 2010 is:
HTC (27%), Nokia(42%), Samsung( 12%) and iPhone(9%) are the phones we sell most of. LG and other brands is just about 5-10% of the total market.
We have a surprisingly high numbers of customers that have ordered the Samsung pad. It is really a hit with business customers too. And we see a lot of truck companies that will have one in each and every one of the trucks they have. This will outsell the iPad in 2011. We would never have thought that. But with the GPS and phone capabilities.. it is easy to sell. We just need a slightly lower price..
LotecT1000 - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - link
I forgot to add the sony ericsson that we started to sell in december. We started to sell them 2nd dec and we have sold a lot. maybe 30% of the december sales so far.Maybe it has to do with a TV ad that they run now, or the good test scores. Sone Ericsson have a winner in the experia models.
If this continue the other brands will have to prove themselves next year.
btw the university bought about 1000 Nokia E7/N900 for the staff. we though that was a big sale - before a store chain bought a lot of experia phones as a christmas gift for their employees. with free use for 2011,
We would have expected the iPhone 4 to sell better, but the antenna problem, and all the broken screens have resulted in slow sales.. except for the first two weeks.
If the iPhone 5 is any good, we will probably sell many of those. if it comes before the 3G batteries fail. we expect many of the 3G and iPhone 4 will buy the new model - even though many have changed to a android based phone. if blackberry phones does not start to sell more, we'll have to stop selling them.
we sell a lot of extra stuff for the Nokias too. We seem to sel a bluetooth headset or handsfree option for every phone we sell. We make more and more money on teaching people to use their phone too. We have classes for everything from "dumb" phones to smart phones.
People are surprised of how many functions a dumb or semi dumb phone have.
Many buy a phone for the gadget functions, and forget about what they need the phone for. now many buys a simple dumb phone for calling, and use the other for the rest.
if you just want to make a call. a phone without a color screen, wifi and other stuff that kills batteries will have to be charged once or twice every 14 days. it is small, super quick to dial and to turn on and off.
I have a semidumb phone too, but only as a spare - and for when I do stuff that can destroy my smart phone. . like kayaking, climbing and stuff like that. I have bluetooth connected and I can take a few calls or listen to audio books or music.
I can't wait to see how the slate/pad market will affect the use of two phones. we see the samsung pad have replaced some smart phones. they buy a pad and then they buy a more simple phone - that is very good at makeing calls. . and not much more. maybe play mp3 and have a radio. . but that's it.
The samsung pad fits in a suit pocket. use a handsfee solutions and it does the job as a phone - and it replaces a laptop in many cases.
I think a lot of transportation companies can use the samsung pad as a gps, as a laptop and as a phone.
we will start to use it in our service cars from january next year.
given all its uses, the price is fairly OK as well.
j3ff86 - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - link
christ how much further can they dumb down/cheapen the E71?LostPassword - Monday, December 6, 2010 - link
i bought one. so far so good. biggest issue is getting skype on it. There's skype app for euro users but for some reason, its not available for americans in the ovi store. i would bail on skype if so many of my friends didn't use the damn app.also, the free gps thing, sometimes the red dot doesn't show up for me.
its definitely a cool feature though, especially since i started to travel alot.
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