If the case was well ventilated there might have been negative air pressure inside the case. Aiflow through the Pheonix fan might be reduced if it is fighting against the case and power supply exhaust fans. It would be interesting to know if the extra heat dumped into the case by the Rev2 cooler had any effect on case/CPU temps.
TYpical PC axial fans do not maintain much pressure, if it is a negatively pressurized case it isn't going to effect temperatures as much as you might suspect, particularly with the Phoenix squirrel cage (centrifugal) fan which does maintain pressure far better than axial case or PSU fans do.
Issues with video cards dumping their heat into a case are mostly urban myths. IF the case ventilation is that bad, either cooler won't matter much relative to what the real problem is in the cooling subsystem.
or runnning a game that is not CPU-bound with heavy settings on the graphics. I like DevilMayCry 4, as it runs light on the CPU (below 30%) but if I turn 4xAA it can tax the 5770 to 100% GPU utilization.
in this case, on a hot day, my board will reach 77º C (this is the max I've seen on my board, but I never ran Furmark to see the absolut maximum).
anyway I've read some rummors that the Rev2 cooler will not go above 55º C on a "normal load" (running games, and not Furmark). maybe this is the case, Ryan tested with Furmark. can you please confirm it to us, Ryan? do you have a load example with a game running too?
I wonder about the phoenix on the 5800 series, do you think an aftermarket fan would work better?
Also, is it possible to cram a better fan inside of the phoenix?
I would get an Arctic Cooling S1 rev B. It has to be slightly modified though, have to bend the fins of the cooler a bit, which is easy.
VRM cooling might be more difficult though.
A 150w card might need a 1000rpm to cool it down.. not sure. Never had above 110w
I don't believe it is possible to change the fan on the Phoenix-like style coolers... you could however blow some cold air to help the fan, and that is what I will do to my case in about one month (I will cut a 8cm x 2cm hole, and put two low-rpm 4cm fans to push air directly above the gpu air entrance).
Your post was interesting but a little to short and with a few omissions. I say this because a have a few unanswered questions like:
1. What about VRM temperatures? I think that the Pheonix shroud is way better at controlling the VRM temperatures.
2. What happens when you overclock the card. Maybe the v2 cooler, cools better and has a lower noise compared to the Pheonix shroud but whan overclocking comes into question how does the maximum oc changes.
3. How do the coolers perform at predefined setting like 50% and 100% rpm.
I'm really interested in getting an answer to those questions.
I was thinking along the same lines. You might have better GPU temps but might have higher memory temps which will limit the OC potential. Also I HATE non-ventilated cooling designs. There is no excuse for keeping the heat in the case in anything other than budget cards that don't produce a lot of heat. All that extra heat is (if your lucky) going out through case fans, but some of it is going through the PSU/memory/CPU and back through the GPU. Give me a NORMAL case that doesn't have 17 large fans and see how the case temps differ when going from a mainly exhausted design (Pheonix) to the v2 design.
FYI other reviews that compared the Phoenix vs v2 cooler showed very minor increases in case temperature. It just would have been nice to see it in this review.
Yeah, the Phoenix shroud looks sexy but I'm sure the noise from having two of them in your case isn't sexy. Does this new revision add to the price of the card?
I'm a rice boy, I'm all for sexy, even if it's PC. Those intel, amd and numerous 3rd party supplier logos make my machine scream like mad. Well, it's more like "WTF are you doing to me you dmbfck." But it's till fast imo.
I would like to see some cooling numbers with both the cards overclocked at the highest common speeds that both card can get to stably, to see if the better cooling on Rev 2 persists with a higher heatload.
I had both and I thought the rev1 had an overall quieter noise profile.
The rev2 had an annoying high-pitch hum compared to the rev1.
Also, you should consider that over time, the rev2 will get clogged with dust much easier due to the closer spaced fins on the heatsink, thus making the fan work harder, and louder.
both fans are PWM controled, the circuit that controls the fan are on the board, so there is no need for 4 wires.
about the dust, I believe that it will be a similar problem to both coolers, but on Phoenix we will not see it, and on Rev2 we will clearly see the dust.
Thanks for the quickie test. But did you measure case temps at all, or maybe see if there was any effect on mobo or CPU temps? Adding that information would make the comparison even more complete.
I bought one 5770 with the Phoenix as soon as I saw the rumors of this new cooler for 2 reasons: I was affraid that it could be worse-performing, and the Phoenix is really beautiful =D . It turns out that my fear was wrong, and the new cooler is actually better and more silent than the Phoenix. I almost regreted my decision, but it looks so cool that I'm fine with it! My case fans are louder than the Phoenix tough... My only concern is that it will be VERY hard to eventually remove the card from my mobo, because the security latch of the pci-e slot on my system is now hidden behind the cooler shroud.
These have been around for a while now. A friend of mine bought a Sapphire 5770 in mid December with one of these coolers. I'm glad to know that they cool better than the Phoenix. Also I'm not too surprised at both the noise levels and cooling. After all, the fan on the Rev2 is much bigger than the one on the Phoenix, along with copper heatpipes.
But honestly, I loved the look of the Phoenix shroud. Having 2 in CrossFireX looks so damn sexy.
I want to see the ATI 5700~5800s using improved coolers, like the ones used by some HIS cards (4670) which has a large fan and large heat-sink. These cards are very quiet.
The coolers are made by Arctic Cooling and sold as add-ons for various cards.
Having a video card that exhausts ALL heat out of the case makes for a cooler running computer, rather than blowing that HOT air onto the RAM, CPU and whatever else.
The Phoenix looks NICE, but its designed with small fan & air-intakes. Removing the 3rd (on some cards) video port will open up the exhaust port for better air flow and noise.
Having a video card that exahausts all heat out is worse, you're just moving the problem.
In order for an equivalent heatsink to move enough air out that tiny rear exhaust port on the 'sink, it has to spin faster and make more noise than a different heatsink and fan design would to keep the card at the same temperature.
Since you are sacrificing this noise level for your ideal of removing case heat, you would have had a more efficient result with slightly increased case fan size or RPM and today's quality case fans are less likely to fail than those on a video card.
Further, the entirely enclosed rear-exhausting heatsinks tend to not only clog with dust as fast or faster, they are significantly more laborious to clean dust out of with their typical shroud screws behind the metal portion facing the card - so the entire heatsink has to be lifted off the GPU for most thorough cleaning which is a bit insane if you stop and think about it.
Some will just think "oh but my case is filtered". Good idea! However, someone picking filtered cases is most often already trading higher noise for same airflow, or reducing airflow so for them apparently the noise vs temperature factor isn't a primary concern.
ULtimately we need not be concerned about open heatsinks on video cards. Any other parts in a computer that are significant producers of heat merely need to have their own design capable of adequate cooling. Most often that just means if you have a northbridge pretty far south and/or hot southbridge, it needs to have a decent sized heatsink on it.
No worries about CPU since you can pick the right cooler, hard drives up front have cool intake air flowing over them, and misc other cards seldom need much cooling.
Finally, higher ambient temperatures in a case aren't necessarily to be avoided, it only needs to last in excess of the viable lifespan of the system and remain stable doing so. Despite the capacitor plague of a few years ago, plenty of OEM systems demonstrate this running at quite a bit higher internal temps than the typical enthusiast gamer system with several 92-120mm fans in it, if not even larger ones.
If you're overclocking that changes things a bit, but still I often see people going overboard, as if 45C is a high component temperature they need to "fix" somehow and yet they accept when their GPU exceeds 60C regularly during gaming only because they don't know how or don't want to do anything about it but in the back of their mind they know 60C is not too hot for most parts in a computer.
I purchased a Sapphire Vapor-X 5870 myself after fearing the vacuum cleaner sound of a normal 5870 and I found the card running extremely quiet and cool even on high load. Well worth the extra $20-30 for a Vapor-X model.
"Having a video card that exhausts ALL heat out of the case makes for a cooler running computer, rather than blowing that HOT air onto the RAM, CPU and whatever else."
True. This is why I also prefer the Phoenix shroud. The Rev2 works great on the 5770, since that isn't a very "hot" card to begin with, but then again it's not a high-end part. Temperatures are on the low side compared to what we're used to seeing (85+ C).
Nice to see we're getting decent coolers on these mid-range cards though, without paying a premium. The reference design ones work good enough but they sound like a vacuum cleaner.
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dvijaydev46 - Thursday, January 7, 2010 - link
It would have been better if the new cooler was tested after overclocking it. Anyways, my HR03 Rev A is waiting for a 5770.Herdwick - Friday, January 8, 2010 - link
If the case was well ventilated there might have been negative air pressure inside the case. Aiflow through the Pheonix fan might be reduced if it is fighting against the case and power supply exhaust fans. It would be interesting to know if the extra heat dumped into the case by the Rev2 cooler had any effect on case/CPU temps.mindless1 - Monday, January 11, 2010 - link
TYpical PC axial fans do not maintain much pressure, if it is a negatively pressurized case it isn't going to effect temperatures as much as you might suspect, particularly with the Phoenix squirrel cage (centrifugal) fan which does maintain pressure far better than axial case or PSU fans do.Issues with video cards dumping their heat into a case are mostly urban myths. IF the case ventilation is that bad, either cooler won't matter much relative to what the real problem is in the cooling subsystem.
dvijaydev46 - Thursday, January 7, 2010 - link
It would have been better if the new cooler was tested after overclocking it. Anyways, my HR03 Rev A is waiting for a 5770.jabber - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I have the MK2 cooler on my 5770 but I cant get the temps to go above 55c at full load.Most odd.
What really stresses a GPU to really give it a hard time?
AznBoi36 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
OCCT / Furmark are the best at this.marc1000 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
or runnning a game that is not CPU-bound with heavy settings on the graphics. I like DevilMayCry 4, as it runs light on the CPU (below 30%) but if I turn 4xAA it can tax the 5770 to 100% GPU utilization.in this case, on a hot day, my board will reach 77º C (this is the max I've seen on my board, but I never ran Furmark to see the absolut maximum).
anyway I've read some rummors that the Rev2 cooler will not go above 55º C on a "normal load" (running games, and not Furmark). maybe this is the case, Ryan tested with Furmark. can you please confirm it to us, Ryan? do you have a load example with a game running too?
Kaleid - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
out with the old fan, and in with a 120mm fan. Just use zip ties. 800rpm should do.dukeariochofchaos - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I wonder about the phoenix on the 5800 series, do you think an aftermarket fan would work better?Also, is it possible to cram a better fan inside of the phoenix?
Kaleid - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I would get an Arctic Cooling S1 rev B. It has to be slightly modified though, have to bend the fins of the cooler a bit, which is easy.VRM cooling might be more difficult though.
A 150w card might need a 1000rpm to cool it down.. not sure. Never had above 110w
marc1000 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I don't believe it is possible to change the fan on the Phoenix-like style coolers... you could however blow some cold air to help the fan, and that is what I will do to my case in about one month (I will cut a 8cm x 2cm hole, and put two low-rpm 4cm fans to push air directly above the gpu air entrance).SorinNita - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
Your post was interesting but a little to short and with a few omissions. I say this because a have a few unanswered questions like:1. What about VRM temperatures? I think that the Pheonix shroud is way better at controlling the VRM temperatures.
2. What happens when you overclock the card. Maybe the v2 cooler, cools better and has a lower noise compared to the Pheonix shroud but whan overclocking comes into question how does the maximum oc changes.
3. How do the coolers perform at predefined setting like 50% and 100% rpm.
I'm really interested in getting an answer to those questions.
7Enigma - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I was thinking along the same lines. You might have better GPU temps but might have higher memory temps which will limit the OC potential. Also I HATE non-ventilated cooling designs. There is no excuse for keeping the heat in the case in anything other than budget cards that don't produce a lot of heat. All that extra heat is (if your lucky) going out through case fans, but some of it is going through the PSU/memory/CPU and back through the GPU. Give me a NORMAL case that doesn't have 17 large fans and see how the case temps differ when going from a mainly exhausted design (Pheonix) to the v2 design.MadMan007 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
FYI other reviews that compared the Phoenix vs v2 cooler showed very minor increases in case temperature. It just would have been nice to see it in this review.Spoelie - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
Valid questions, but this is a blog post and not a full review ;)SorinNita - Thursday, January 7, 2010 - link
Yes, I know but I was expecting more...Now i have this hunger for more info and no way to satisfy it.
somidiot - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I don't like the coolers that don't include the memory. I noticed that there weren't any numbers for the mem temps.RaistlinZ - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
Yeah, the Phoenix shroud looks sexy but I'm sure the noise from having two of them in your case isn't sexy. Does this new revision add to the price of the card?The0ne - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I'm a rice boy, I'm all for sexy, even if it's PC. Those intel, amd and numerous 3rd party supplier logos make my machine scream like mad. Well, it's more like "WTF are you doing to me you dmbfck." But it's till fast imo.muddocktor - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I would like to see some cooling numbers with both the cards overclocked at the highest common speeds that both card can get to stably, to see if the better cooling on Rev 2 persists with a higher heatload.irev210 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I had both and I thought the rev1 had an overall quieter noise profile.The rev2 had an annoying high-pitch hum compared to the rev1.
Also, you should consider that over time, the rev2 will get clogged with dust much easier due to the closer spaced fins on the heatsink, thus making the fan work harder, and louder.
PWM controlled fan on the V1 is also preferred.
marc1000 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
both fans are PWM controled, the circuit that controls the fan are on the board, so there is no need for 4 wires.about the dust, I believe that it will be a similar problem to both coolers, but on Phoenix we will not see it, and on Rev2 we will clearly see the dust.
MadMan007 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
Thanks for the quickie test. But did you measure case temps at all, or maybe see if there was any effect on mobo or CPU temps? Adding that information would make the comparison even more complete.marc1000 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I bought one 5770 with the Phoenix as soon as I saw the rumors of this new cooler for 2 reasons: I was affraid that it could be worse-performing, and the Phoenix is really beautiful =D . It turns out that my fear was wrong, and the new cooler is actually better and more silent than the Phoenix. I almost regreted my decision, but it looks so cool that I'm fine with it! My case fans are louder than the Phoenix tough... My only concern is that it will be VERY hard to eventually remove the card from my mobo, because the security latch of the pci-e slot on my system is now hidden behind the cooler shroud.AznBoi36 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
These have been around for a while now. A friend of mine bought a Sapphire 5770 in mid December with one of these coolers. I'm glad to know that they cool better than the Phoenix. Also I'm not too surprised at both the noise levels and cooling. After all, the fan on the Rev2 is much bigger than the one on the Phoenix, along with copper heatpipes.But honestly, I loved the look of the Phoenix shroud. Having 2 in CrossFireX looks so damn sexy.
rritklin - Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - link
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BelardA - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
A bigger fan at slower RPMs is always quieter.I want to see the ATI 5700~5800s using improved coolers, like the ones used by some HIS cards (4670) which has a large fan and large heat-sink. These cards are very quiet.
The coolers are made by Arctic Cooling and sold as add-ons for various cards.
Having a video card that exhausts ALL heat out of the case makes for a cooler running computer, rather than blowing that HOT air onto the RAM, CPU and whatever else.
The Phoenix looks NICE, but its designed with small fan & air-intakes. Removing the 3rd (on some cards) video port will open up the exhaust port for better air flow and noise.
mindless1 - Monday, January 11, 2010 - link
Having a video card that exahausts all heat out is worse, you're just moving the problem.In order for an equivalent heatsink to move enough air out that tiny rear exhaust port on the 'sink, it has to spin faster and make more noise than a different heatsink and fan design would to keep the card at the same temperature.
Since you are sacrificing this noise level for your ideal of removing case heat, you would have had a more efficient result with slightly increased case fan size or RPM and today's quality case fans are less likely to fail than those on a video card.
Further, the entirely enclosed rear-exhausting heatsinks tend to not only clog with dust as fast or faster, they are significantly more laborious to clean dust out of with their typical shroud screws behind the metal portion facing the card - so the entire heatsink has to be lifted off the GPU for most thorough cleaning which is a bit insane if you stop and think about it.
Some will just think "oh but my case is filtered". Good idea! However, someone picking filtered cases is most often already trading higher noise for same airflow, or reducing airflow so for them apparently the noise vs temperature factor isn't a primary concern.
ULtimately we need not be concerned about open heatsinks on video cards. Any other parts in a computer that are significant producers of heat merely need to have their own design capable of adequate cooling. Most often that just means if you have a northbridge pretty far south and/or hot southbridge, it needs to have a decent sized heatsink on it.
No worries about CPU since you can pick the right cooler, hard drives up front have cool intake air flowing over them, and misc other cards seldom need much cooling.
Finally, higher ambient temperatures in a case aren't necessarily to be avoided, it only needs to last in excess of the viable lifespan of the system and remain stable doing so. Despite the capacitor plague of a few years ago, plenty of OEM systems demonstrate this running at quite a bit higher internal temps than the typical enthusiast gamer system with several 92-120mm fans in it, if not even larger ones.
If you're overclocking that changes things a bit, but still I often see people going overboard, as if 45C is a high component temperature they need to "fix" somehow and yet they accept when their GPU exceeds 60C regularly during gaming only because they don't know how or don't want to do anything about it but in the back of their mind they know 60C is not too hot for most parts in a computer.
Jedi2155 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
I purchased a Sapphire Vapor-X 5870 myself after fearing the vacuum cleaner sound of a normal 5870 and I found the card running extremely quiet and cool even on high load. Well worth the extra $20-30 for a Vapor-X model.AznBoi36 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
"Having a video card that exhausts ALL heat out of the case makes for a cooler running computer, rather than blowing that HOT air onto the RAM, CPU and whatever else."True. This is why I also prefer the Phoenix shroud. The Rev2 works great on the 5770, since that isn't a very "hot" card to begin with, but then again it's not a high-end part. Temperatures are on the low side compared to what we're used to seeing (85+ C).
NagoyaX - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I have a gigabyte 5770 which uses similar cooling to XFX Rev.2No problems with it.... Knock on wood
Taft12 - Tuesday, January 5, 2010 - link
I don't know if I'd call 2 weeks ago "a while now"marc1000 - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
But it's been around for more than 2 weeks, maybe around a month.mmntech - Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - link
Yep,that's right. My Sapphire 5770 has that same cooler.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...apphire_...
Nice to see we're getting decent coolers on these mid-range cards though, without paying a premium. The reference design ones work good enough but they sound like a vacuum cleaner.