I've been very disappointed by the Pre and had to switch back to my Treo 700p. I'd say of you like Palm OS and its effective PIM applications (calendar, contacts, tasks and memos), you probably won't like the Pre. Otherwise, I think the Pre may be a good choice. The best review of the Pre I found:
I'm lost on why the Iphone is the definition of a phone. Last I checked my HTC WinMo phone has just about all the same features. Can't a palm be compared to The Touch Pro. I see the journalistic approach, using palm vs apple. But others mentioned android why is anandtech so in love with their Iphones...
Also wouldn't cell phone fall under "mobile" on the tab bar.
I missed the messaging part. Since Iphone users can't use it, they don't know what multiple messaging is. Palringo, a WinMo/blackberry app, runs every IM service you ever had.
Love the magnetic charger, My toothbrush has that, and I always thought that it should be used for small devices.
The palm does kick a little Iphone butt, but WinMo blows that phone away, they just need multi-touch on the touch pro2
A coworker of mine says the phone gets really hot when in use for extended periods of time. Not sure if it's from the backlight for the display or just the battery discharging. Either way, the result is a very hot phone and apparently a discolored screen. He's replaced his already once because of some yellowish discoloration at the bottom edge of the screen that spreads the more it's used.
Techies, come on! Really? Are we such navel-gazers that we don't get it? Sure, my original Palm, my Tilt and my HTC phone could do stuff that the iPhone and the Pre can't do (yet). But that's not the point.
It's ease of use!!!! The satisfaction of the UI!
I don't hit the start menu so I can scroll through file manager. I don't mess around with crappy windows mobile UI to find stuff. And when the new WM comes out, it will prove that ease of use is the point. That's the iphone feature that everyone wants to copy, and rightfully so. The companies get it while the techies play their little "mine is better than yours" one up spec game.
You can turn on my music on the iPhone and surf the web or open another app, etc. AT THE SAME TIME. That's what people want and do. Only people without an iphone don't know that there is some level of multi tasking. I can play most games or use most apps on the iPhone without stopping the music. If I close my web browser to open another app, my web app doesn't go back to the home page. That page stays open. When I click on the web app again, I'm where I left off. Why do I need to have my web browser open while I'm in another program anyway? Now if I'm using something like Pandora, it's a problem. (And that level of multi-tasking would be welcomed Apple!) If I use the pre, I don't have this issue at all. Either way, these phones are initially made for joe public to understand not just for sammy supertech savvy to gush over. And yet, these phones can go up the scale from casual user to business user like myself.
Anyone who's used the pre for an hour knows how absolutely cool it is. And that's a big factor. It's easy to use. Sure it's powerful and I still think these two smart phones (AND the G1) are great. But it's the UI stupid! That's what sells the phone. Don't hate them because they're beautiful. ;-) There is something under the hood.
Hi Anand,
I am sorry to ask but am bit curious did you use non formated sites for facebook & Slashdot because of too much discrepency of my Iphone 3GS and your numbers of it.
Also I was wondering if you can do a app launching test on Iphone 3GS with a 3rd party app as most of the native apps run services in background (I found this by installing backgrounder app from Cydia after jailbreak on 3G and found that many native apps were running in background already). So its not launching from standstill if its half running.
Thanks.
Ehsan
Att's network is completely useless. Their plans are INCREDIBLY overpriced, and they nickle and dime the living crap out of you... I will NEVER get any cell phone from ATT.
That being said, cell phones need to transition to voip over WiiMax, once a Nationwide (world wide) WiiMax network is set up.
Data plans need to be INFITINE data, non of this 5GB per month bullshit!! Text IS data, as you said. Voice, well, is kind of data, and should be ALL data soon.
I don't think sprints network is reliable enough to switch though.
Battery life needs to hit 20hrs+.
I want a smart phone from LG, that I OWN, not that BELONGS to a cell phone company. So I can buy the phone, and take it to whatever network I want, Verizon, Net 10, Boost, Sprint, whatever. LG makes great stuff.
Can you PLEASE review the LG smart phones that ARE out, like the Env, and the other one that costs like 30 bucks more... I forget the name right now.
What is the most important feature of a phone with unlimited data? Obviously it is to be able to provide a broadband internet connection for my desktop pc so I can get away from the comcast bloodsuckers. I find it curious that Anand doesnt even answer this most important of questions. lol. One can only wonder what kind of world Anand lives in ... sheesh... only a moron would do anything more than talk or txt on one of these stupid things.
Like in many other occasions AT misses the point again - Pre is nothing like the iPhone, let alone aiming at it. If it's aiming anything then it's rather the Blackberry and its integrated communication services - which iPhone never came even close to, let alone matching it.
iPhone is a geek (music/net/media) phone but NOT a smartphone - what kind of a smartphone could it be with NO MULTITASKING whatsoever?
You might can get almost as much stupid little apps as on WinMo - I doubt it though - but the lack of multitasking by itself makes it immediately a laughable proposition, let alone the long-missing other features that took Apple 2+ YEARS to fix, only to catch up with top phones from 2007...
Typical Apple-RDF idiocy at its best - Anand really needs to pull out his head of Jobs' @ss and needs to take a reality trip to overseas and see how laughable his iPhone is when compared to high-end phones in Europe and Asia (as a matter of fact it's quite embarrassing to have an iPhone in Japan.)
There's a reason why Blackberry beats Apple even in the US, which is typically the strongest market for Apple - it's the fact that iPhone is a reat piece for pseudo-business people but no real corporate person would touch it (would you give out your most sensitive communication for Apple? Because that's what you do with iPhone.)
Palm Pre is FAR AHEAD of iPhone but it's not a big step - there are plenty of phones well ahead of iPhone, there's nothing to see here in this regard, sorry.
The balance of the phone. The phone is top heavy, making it very difficult to use it single handed. Additionally, the keyboard is too far away from the screen to call it "useable" with the screen when you have it with one hand. This makes me wish it has a virtual Keyboard! Battery life... well.. is left to be desired. Full charge at 3PM (more like 2:30) talked 3 times, but texted a lot, used e-mail and AIM. lasted t'il approximately 10PM. the talk times lasted approximately 3-4 minutes each.
Slow reaction when launching applications: Anand hit the nail on the head on this one. Still nice, but not as fast as apple. Still time for improvements on this one!
Anyways, Now that the iPhone has 3.0 out, I think it's a serious contender in the smartphone world! Palm pre also lacks video recording and the AF of apple's iphone 3Gs!!!
Hi Anand,
When starting messaging part of your review you opened with "The iPhone perfected text messaging". Can you please explain what you meant by this? Did you mean to say that they perfected it from the original one came on 1st Iphone or you meant they perfected it for all smartphones? Because if you meant later you are wrong. It was Palm who implemented threaded sms/mms in Palm OS in Treo 650 times and later customized it on Win Mob for their WM based treos. They were the first and only one till Apple copied that idea. How is that for wakeup call Apple fansboys??
Thanks.
Ehsan
quote: Hi Anand,
When starting messaging part of your review you opened with "The iPhone perfected text messaging". Can you please explain what you meant by this?
Nope, it's just another idiocy - iPhone NEVER been a desired texting phone, let alone bringing anything new (originally there wasn't even landscape email writing, let alone the still-missing MMS) - this is just one of the countless ignorant and stupid claims of this article.
Again, Anand badly needs to do some research before he starts putting out more of this kind of embarrassingly ingorant articles...
I think what Anand is trying to suggest is the format of texting in the iPhone is what is almost perfect.
It is essentially like a chat, a running conversation between the parties concerned.
Using various other phones, I became accustomed to running conversations, but they were never really structured. I am sure other phone makers have excellent implementations, but the iPhone really did raise the bar for me.
With 0S 3.0 and it's landscape keyboard, it is doubly awesome :)
I fully understand what Anand may be trying to suggest but what I want Anand and you to know is this running conversation between parties, like chat, is called "threaded messaging" which Palm introduces in its Treo 600 days. It was perfect and Palm included IM into it in their new WebOS so not only your sms and mms are in chat format but also your aol and gtalk IM's are in same chat window.
What I am suggesting is please give credit where credit is due. Apple implementation of "threaded messaging" is carbon copy of Palm's version which they introduced long time ago in treo 600. Please check out history.
" Coming from the iPhone, this is a huge omission (Apple probably holds the patent on awesome predictive text input, Palm would probably have to clean Jobs‘ toilets weekly to get access to that one). "
Yeah.... you know, it's more than awkward to read things like this in a well-publicized article from a well-known person, on a much-hyped site...
...because this level of ignorance, lack of even basic research (there are at least half a dozen predictive text technologies out there and iPhone is pretty far from being the best) would immediately result in a permanent publication ban at any half-decent news organization or site.
In best case - say you are a junior journo - your editor would be reprimanded and you would be put back in some associate position but in worst case - if you were an editor - you'd be released immediately.
Several of the sites (slashdot, facebook) that you loaded on the iPhone 3GS loaded disproportionately faster on the 3GS than the pre based on other site load times.
It has been suggested that these sites detect the user agent of the iPhone and serve up an optimized site for the iPhone. This has been suggested by using a user agent switcher with Safari. Set it to "Mobile Safari 3.0" - the iPhone browser - and the site loads much quicker even on the same mac.
From a recent post at Precentral.net:
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Even if you don't have an iPhone, you can test it yourself if you have a Mac, and are running Safari 4. Go to the Develop menu on a new tab, and change the user agent to Mobile Safari 3.0 and load up slashdot.org. Now open a new tab (the user agent will default to the regular one) and open up slashdot.org. Compare the two. Notice the differences? Of course the one on iPhone loads faster- it's a different freaking version!! Similar thing on facebook.com.
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Can you confirm that your tests loaded the exact same version of these pages, and that facebook and slashdot did not serve up different versions of their content to the iPhone that was less data or optimized specifically for the iPhone? The evidence seems pretty compelling that if your user agent is "Mobile Safari 3.0" you get a different version of the page, and comparing that with the Pre loading the full generic site is not valid.
I mention this because a variety of news and gadget sites have carried this as evidence of a 20+ % advantage of the iPhone 3GS over the Pre in rendering web pages. If they are not rendering the same page and data, then that needs to be explicitly acknowledged.
It may be that this turns out to be nothing, and the 3GS is rendering the exact same data and page that much faster than the Pre on these sites. But the discrepancy and possible explanation of an iPhone-optimized page should be explored and brought to light.
Personally whether it's 24% or 6% faster than the Pre, I couldn't care less. They are both awesome phones. However, it is appropriate to give the Pre a fair shake.
Very, very extensive article between the iPhone and the Palm Pre, which I like.
Although the iPhone has a quicker response time, smoother layout, and is more sturdy, I have to nail it in this respect. The fact that the iPhone has a "closed" application network for users and that the iPhone doesn't allow for multi-tasking makes the phone looks very undesirable, for me at least.
However, the Palm Pre has an "open" network for application downloading where everyone can contribute to it, like Androi's market. They offer multi-tasking, which is a MUST need for me and I'm sure just about everyone else.
The one thing that disappoints me about the Palm Pre is not its short-comings when it comes to Syngery, IMing, or anything else It's rather the fact that the device itself doesn't sound physically sturdy, as pointed out in the article. I'm sure it would take a big of doing to smash the Palm Pre, but I'm sure I'll end up dropping my own Palm Pre and I want to know that I'm not about to end up with a dead-unit because of one drop.
Nevertheless, the Palm Pre is something I will most definitely consider as I prepare to get my first smartphone in the coming months. I'd much rather the Palm Pre have the Android OS loaded onto it, rather than its own WebOS, but perhaps its changeable?
Hi JMaine, it seems like you have been reading a lot lately.
Just to quote from some of your messages here:
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#1
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I've been reading a lot about the Palm Pre's problems since launch - overheating, poor battery life, and software crashes. Don't forget that a smart phone's function is to be a phone first, and everything else after. If you can't use its features without affecting it's essential functionality as a phone, it's a failure.
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#2
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I've been reading many reports about battery issues with the Pre. Multi-tasking implemented poorly is far worse than not having multi-tasking at all. I feel this feature add a level of complexity not many mainstream users will appreciate and is an unnecessary waste of battery life, which contradict the primary purpose a smart-'phone' is there for.
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It sounds like you have been trolling for reasons to put down the Pre. I think the multitasking on the Pre is pretty brilliant. I like having 5 apps open. Currently on my mac I have iTunes playing, this web page open (with other tabs as well), a Finder window open, MS Word is open so I could cut and paste your comments, Xee is open from some recent picture work, etc. I think it's not all that complex, anyone with a PC or a mac understands how to have several programs open. The Pre's cards accomplish switching elegantly.
Now, you seem to have been looking around carefully for stories of people who had problems with their Pre so that you could cast them as general problems in forums such as this one. Why? A strong competitor will make Apple develop a better iPhone. It is in your interest for the Pre to succeed!
Palm has innovated with this phone. As Apple did before it, Palm has implemented ideas that will shape the direction phones go in. Innovation is a good thing. Using FUD to sabotage and stifle it as your comments seem to do is not cool.
I think this is one of the worst reviews I've ever seen, and never expected to come from Anand in person. Why do I think that? Basically, because it's not a review, it's a comparison: Palm Pre vs. iPhone.
On every single page Apple/iPhone is cited. Okay, they're competitors and all, but when Pre has an advantage, there are comments like 'Apple should do that'. That's ridiculous. I've never seen an review with comments like these. Pure fanboyism.
Please, change the title of the article to: 'Can Palm beat my Iphone' or something like that.
I have to agree with you. I'm not entirely sure why so many users are applauding the review because they think it's an "in depth review." It's not. It's a "got a new phone to compare to Iphone and have to get a general review out ASAP fever/syndrome.
I'll be waiting for the "in depth review" of the Pre from Anandtech soon.
However, if reviews use the Iphone as the criteria in the first place you will have reviews such as this one. Unless the Iphone really does set standards I would have to say it's not going to change until people find standards to test phones too. For example, if battery lasts 3hours+ than it should qualify as being a good phone. It shouldn't be said that the Pre is "lagging" or "isn't better" than the Iphone. That's just really giving a bad impression to those that actually do testing in real life. If anything it makes the author look bad IMO.
And I'll disagree with you both. :) While a traditional review focuses primarily on the product at hand, this one works for a very good reason that Anand restated over and over. The iPhone has been the dominant force in the "smart" phone for several years now with really no direct competition. There were products that had more functionality, more horsepower, but none that had the complete package. The iPhone didn't and still doesn't but it came the closest. So it makes total sense to compare the Pre directly.
It is very similar to the cpu market where you have basically 2 competetors. Could you imagine a new AMD cpu coming out and having no comparisons with the i7? Of course not. The current "best", be that from performance, functionality, or the package deal of all aspects, should always be directly compared to give the reader the best information to making a buying decision.
Now cpu's are easy and objective decisions. You run 10 benchmarks, compare hard data, and declare a winner. Obviously a phone is a different beast. It has an OS, and this makes for subjective issues. What I like you may not like. What I think is functional you may find annoying. But the fact is that Anand, who many of us highly respect for honest and detailed articles/reviews, seems to have a good grasp on the smartphone market, and is ACTIVELY looking for an upgrade option to the iPhone.
Just like we are always looking for a gpu/cpu upgrade by comparing how much better the new part is than our current part, Anand is saying the Pre is coming out years after the iPhone, so it had better damn well match or exceed in all areas that the iPhone already "perfected".
And I think most of us saw through the article to the underlying message, which was to inflate the level of competition between Apple and Palm so that we, the consumer, benefits in the end.
I understand what you say and I agree with you, but that didn't happen in the article. I partially understand when you say that "And I think most of us saw through the article to the underlying message, which was to inflate the level of competition between Apple and Palm so that we, the consumer, benefits in the end", but in the end the "review" sounded ridiculous, towards fanboyism.
Thanks for a really well written comparison between the Pre and the iPhone. A few comments:
"The multitasking ability of the Pre is honestly one of two features I really, really wish my iPhone had. Multitasking has been done by many smartphones before the Pre or iPhone, but no one has done it as smooth and as Apple-like as Palm. "
I've been reading many reports about battery issues with the Pre. Multi-tasking implemented poorly is far worse than not having multi-tasking at all. I feel this feature add a level of complexity not many mainstream users will appreciate and is an unnecessary waste of battery life, which contradict the primary purpose a smart-'phone' is there for.
As you noted in the article, Apple built up it's UI and feature set, gradually perfecting each with every successive update. Do you think battery life is a strong reason for them not adding multi-tasking beyond the ipod music into the iPhone? I personally feel push notifications is a better implementation than true multi-tasking on a phone.
Had to create a login to address something that made me laugh...
Thank you for a great review, although I don't hold out much hope of the Pre hitting the UK in the near future. I also think it is right to heavily compare the Pre to the iPhone given that it is the only credible competition for a very user friendly and fairly feature full phone (and by features I don't mean crammed with hardware I mean the services).
I just have to say, to anybody trying to mention Nokia as producing better phones than the iPhone with S60 having more functionality and the handsets having better hardware... this may be true but Nokias implementation is waaaay off. Every new flagship N series phone is plagued with software issues... N95, N96, expect the N97 will follow shortly. 5800 is also terrible for software problems. The list of handsets with poor reliability extends further back than that and will no doubt carry on into the future. Irrespective of whether the hardware in the Nokia phone is quicker, or the camera is better, or the handset is more open, if you have to have your phone replaced or repaired 5 times within a few months of purchasing then to be honest it really isnt worthy of comparison. And I know not everybody has had issues before I get flamed, myself being one of them as I moved from an N95 8GB to the iPhone 3G, but working in the mobile phone market, I can tell you that there are no end of Nokia software problems and virtually no issues with iPhone OS or the hardware.
So iPhone > N series pretty much every time; it may not have 2 processors, open bluetooth, great camera etc, but at least it works.
On a side note, I bet Nokia don't have a 5 day turnaround for fixing or replacing a handset that comes back to them.
Its all about the ecosystem that surrounds the handset, people in the top end of the market are becoming less impressed with pure hardware these days and are looking for more out of their phone with regards to web integration and services, and Apple have pretty much got everything down to a T as it currently stands.
So yes, compare the Pre to the iPhone, the Pre looks potentially worthy as an alternative, but not quite there.
And don't ever try to compare a Nokia to an iPhone, not even in the same ballpark as the iPhone ^_^
Thank you Anand for your very in depth review. There were a couple things that came to mind while reading this review as well as the comments after.
First, I really think the industry needs a new term for the iphones and the pres out there. IMO you have phones, their primary objective is making and recieving calls and text messages with some very light media duties. Then you have smartphones (pocket pc, blackberry, palm os) that are geared towards a balance of voice communication and business software with some light web browsing and media use. I think there should also be a 3rd category, call it superphone if you want. A superphone will make calls, but it browses the web, acts as a audio/video player, handheld game, remote control, and any number of other things just as well. In fact, our superphones have advanced to the point where most reviews don't even mention call quality at all.
Second, for the first few years of the iphone there were two groups. Group 1 who loves their iphone for its simplicity and ability to run all their fun apps. And group 2, the hardcore and business oriented smartphone users who hated the iphone because it lacked so many things their blackberry/treo etc already had years ago (including apps which weren't allowed on the original iphone release.) I will admit that I am a member of the second group. I had friends that ran out to buy an iphone and I just couldn't understand why anyone would want a device that was so limited that you couldn't even install 3rd party software on it. Eventually the app store was released but by then it was too late for some of us. We had already grown to despise the iphone. The iphone faithful on the other hand fell in love with their new phones and quickly forgot about the things it didn't poses. Now that those features are being added, the fact that alot of iphone fanatics act like they are getting great features never before seen in the mobile world only serves to miff those of us from group two a little more. That being said, I hate reading reviews for pre and iphone because both the review and the comments are so heavily biased one way or the other that its of no benefit, it just turns into a big p!ssing match. One group ignores the polish of the iphone and its extensive apps, the other just wants to point a finger at the pres smaller screen, minimal 3rd party software, and reports of screen issues. Although, let me remind you that you are purchasing a totally new product with the pre. There are going to be some defects and you will no doubt hear about them as people are eager to jump on the net and let everyone know about their new product. No manufacturer can guarantee a 100% defect free manufacturing process, especially in the infancy of a product. Its not going to have 40,000 apps at launch and you shouldn't expect it to. Look at it like a video game system, when ps3 (or any other system) launched there were numerous overheating issues and it had a small library of titles. It takes a while for the programmers to get stuff out there. Noone says "I'm not buying a ps3 because there are WAY more games out for nes." and sony realized their overheating issues and corrected them quickly, fast enough that alot of people probably don't even know they existed. Except for those early adopters out there and people that saw all of the pictures online of store demo units freezing up.
Either way, for the most part I don't think any review on the internet is going to change 99% of peoples minds. Iphone lovers will continue to buy iphones, ignore its drawbacks, and hate any product that attempts to build on their success. And iphone haters are going to buy anything out there that does all of those things that they need or want it to do, yet secretly wish they could have that cool app their friend does. But this is the first review / comparison I have read that was mostly unbiased and didn't have a full fledged iphone/pre war in the comments section.
Thank you anandtech, you once again deliver a fair review followed by civilized debate.
"Curious by Griswold, 13 hours ago
But does the ringer switch fall off as easily as the one on my iphone? Personally, I dont care if some parts feel or look cheap, as long as they arent cheap - like the ringer switch on the iphone."
If there was an issue with iPhone ringer switches it would be well known. There isn't one.
The Pre would have been of interest a year or two ago but I think right now its too little too late. It is cheaply made and there are many reports of issues because of poor quality and users having to exchange for new ones. Personally I find the keyboard unusable as do many others. 8GB of ram is also a showstopper for me. I really have no interest in Sprint since they are even worse than AT&T. Palm as a company is in serious financial difficulty and the Pre is not going to change that given initial sales. The best they can hope for is a buyer who can provide the backing they need. The Pre also really needs to get on Verizon and some better 2nd gen hardware out. I had my iPhone 3GS delivered today and it walks all over the Pre. As much as I like the iPhone and Apple products in general I really would prefer the Pre was a stronger competitor. AT&T sure as hell needs the competition.
Thanks Anand for you excellent, detailed, while personal review.
I have had an Apple Newton, a Palm IIIe and have a Treo 600. I love the Pre from what I have seen. I hate any exclusive carrier and any sort of locked phone.
When Palm sells these things unlocked with quadband GSM I'm in. I would even buy a model that does not have a phone but WiFi only, if it comes with an application that calls the number in my address book and makes a connection to one of my three phone numbers (home, work, cell dependent on what Wifi network I'm connected to [home, work, other]). That would be a killer app and increase Palms economies of scale to drive the price down or the profit margin up. Palm I'm looking at you!
"You do have the plug the Touchstone into a power outlet (or your computer) and you still need to plug the USB cable into the Pre to sync music/photos/movies"
The Touchstone will only work plugged into the wall, you might want to correct that.
I generally like your reviews but this one was mostly how the Pre isn't an iphone. Review the phone for what it is then compare later.
"...In fact, the biggest limit to how fast you can type is the fact that the Pre has no intelligent predictive text engine. It will capitalize new words for you and insert apostrophes when appropriate, but if you misspell a word it won’t correct it on the fly. Coming from the iPhone, this is a huge omission (Apple probably holds the patent on awesome predictive text input, Palm would probably have to clean Jobs‘ toilets weekly to get access to that one)."
Actually, the BB Pearl, which I owned before my iPhone, had a far superior predictive text engine. I find the iPhone frequently making undesired "corrections", while I could actually type on my Pearl without looking at the keyboard or making any in situ corrections and the predictive engine got the words right almost all the time. I believe that engine probably predates the iPhone's, so I doubt Apple has a defensible patent on the technique.
I only see Gmail and Facebook mentioned. I don't really use either. What other options are there for synching? Why not Hotmail, is this a Palm choice or a limitation by Microsoft? I guess Itunes might work for managing your contacts, but who knows for how long.
While Anand was gushing over it, am I the only person that doesn't want their information syncing over the ambiguous cloud? I'd much rather have it on my home computer, where I'm not subject to the whims of the service provider's uptime, where a mere hacker can't break in and steal any information, where the service provider can't turn around and data mine it or sell it, etc.
When my iPhone syncs to Outlook, I know the information is immediately updated on both ends. I know no one else had access to it, and I know that I can easily take it and manipulate it in the future since absolutely everything works with Outlook or a CSV export from Outlook.
The Cloud strikes me as handing over globs of important data to someone else, and praying that they don't find a way to screw up managing it.
The only thing being done right here is that Palm isn't charging for this service like Apple is for MobileMe. Some features (primarily phone location and remote wiping) do need a service provider, and for just those services MobileMe is entirely a rip-off.
I created a new e-mail address just for Facebook, and that is the only contact info I have listed there. I don't think many of my friends have their info out there for all to see either.
I need one without a camera. I wish someone would look at non-camera phone options for those of us that can't take them to work. We're stuck with with the crap phones in the bargin bin or a very limited selection of Blackberries, and I don't really need the blackberry specific services, I just want a good phone without a camera.
Since I'm on Sprint I'd seriously consider the Pre but the camera makes it a non-starter, and I have a moral issue with purposely breaking the camera on a brand new phone.
Thanks for the review, but I guess I'll continue to stand outside the ride and drool.
You forgot to note that you can start dialing/searching for a contact to dial by simply dialing at the launch screen, or typing out a contact name. This feature is also in Palm's treo devices.
You missed some gestures as well, you do not need to press the home button to get to home. simply flick up from below the home button and you can get home. Flick up again, and you get the launcher. Flick up yet again and the launcher goes back down. I've rarely found a reason to press the home button.
"The iPhone also includes a Google search box and a button toolbar on the screen by default as well. There is no room for these on the Pre so they are all nearly absent."
In the Pre browser you have no need to go to the address bar or a search box unless copy and pasting. As long as you're not in a text field, just start typing and the browser will either Google search or go to the address you just typed it.
It appears you tested the iPhone’s WebKit browser engine from v2.x not from the latest v3.0. I know that it just came out about 30 hours ago, but I humbly request that you include the iPhone 3G v3.0 browser tests in the next article you are sure to do about the iPhone 3GS v. Palm Pre.
Thank you for your time.
PS: While no disk sharing is set yet they are allowing you to share your MobileMe iDisk in the future, according to this Apple Page (toward bottom)…
Wow, nice to virtually meet you. I am siked to be able to converse with you on the blog. I am part of the Sprint Support team for the Pre when it was first released. I must say the device did very well. I gave excellent support and more of the support were help and how to's, nothing dealing with failures or wanting to return the phone. I demo the phone daily, I am even beginning to write the cool apps to add to the pre's App Store. I wanted to ask you if you could run the test between the iphone 3GS and Palm Pre' using AT&T internet and Sprint's internet only? My suggestion, wipe both phones clean and leave the programming, to ensure cache, cookies, histoy, saved, bookmarks are all deleted out of the phone. Major city test is fine, somewhere that has both At&T best and fastest data coverage and Sprint has it's fastest data coverage and time the sites being pulled up. I site that is rich www.msnbc.com; cnn.com disney.com (my son loves tht site) and just see what can they really do. Anand, do you agree that the iphone has so many apps to cover up that its quicker to click an app for almost any scenerio vs having to launch the web and browse to it?
"The other thing that would be nice to have? The ability to start typing a name from the keypad screen instead of having to open up the contacts window to search for someone"
This is an option. Go into the Phone App, click on the Menu and choose Preferences. Turn "Show Contact Matches" On. Then type away on the dialpad for names.
I just want to thank you for not swinging off of Jobs' left nut and being exceptionally objective and observant. Having just preordered my 3GS I do not expect to be disappointed as I'm jumping into the smartphone market finally but there's been WAY too many reviewers pussyfooting around stating direct, strong opinions on the finer details of Pre v. iPhone. They may have GENERALLY said the same thing from a bird's eye view but like I said: walking on eggshells, almost apologizing for commending Palm in any way.
I think Anand did a pretty good job with the review, I was kicking around the idea of picking up a new Pre sometime soon and this review just pushed me over the top. I am going to get one ASAP.
All that being said, I am somewhat disappointed in this review. I have to agree with other posters that the article was a confusing piece (Palm Pre Review or Iphone wish list). Certainly the Pre has some room to improve (hopefully software updates can address some of the issues Anand described). I know that the Iphone is a very popular phone and as such it will be one of the top comparison phones, but people still give Apple way too much leeway for cutting out features in the name of a simple experience. I am happy to see Palm doing what it can to put features back into a phone that gives a similar to the Iphone experience.
Thanks guys. I see it this way: Apple set the bar very high with the iPhone, to take a step backwards in anything the iPhone perfected is bound to be disappointing. No visual voicemail? No full system-wide search? Slower app launches and choppier animations? These, in my mind, are unacceptable given that Apple already provided the market with a good blueprint of what to do.
If Palm didn't force me to give anything up that the iPhone delivered, I would switch in a heartbeat. I either want Palm to perfect the Pre or Apple to adopt Pre-features, I don't really care which one happens, I just want at least one of them to happen :)
Ya, Multitasking, Being cool, Physical keyboard. The Phone just seems Right.
I don't understand why Anand is so inclined to iPhone..! Even when the Pre is better, You Just doesn't want to agree on that, Just wants Apple to give those Features...
Man i got confused... It's a Palm Pre Review or iPhone Enhancement Request... :P
Thanks for this timely (and in depth) product review. Sounds like Palm has a lot of optimization to do with the OS before I'd ulitmately consider it for my next phone.
My quick research shows that this device does not have an expansion slot for memory. Does the Pre allow you to install additional codecs? It supports MP4, H263 and H264, but not the XviD codec. Although I encode my videos using the X264 codec these days, I have a lot of DivX/XviD files in my collection. Does it allow users to assign an mp3 as a ringtone or does it require users to use a specific format? Palm's website lists "Bluetooth tethering" as a feature. Any chance that you tested that out? Speaking of bluetooth, how is this device's performance with other bluetooth devices? The security setup? How is the call quality when using the phone with no headset? The microphone? Does Palm have any plans on upgrading the Pre to a metal housing or even offering one in the near future? I'd also like to see support for MSN IM or maybe offer a Trillian-like app (or something like that).
A lot of the Pre reviews have mentioned the keyboard being ok, but not great. None of them mention the bonus of actually having all of screen space available while you type. Yea the iphone and android's have bigger screens, but so what if you loose half every time the keyboard appears.
On the browser performance page, I couldn't spot any mention of which version of the iPhone OS you're using for comparison? I've found 3.0 to be much faster, having benefited from the updated WebKit builds including the "Nitro" JS engine and general render speed improvements (I assume the Pre has this build as well). Would you mind clarifying or pointing me toward the answer?
Well the first teardown of the iPhone 3G S seems to confirm that Apple too uses a ARM A8 Cortex SoC with PowerVR SGX as predicted. I wonder if the hardware similarity between the Palm Pre and the new iPhone will put pressure on Apple to implement multitasking. They could argue hardware limitations for the older models, but it's difficult to hold back now that the Pre has shown it can be done well on newer hardware. Sadly, it'll probably be the major new feature of iPhone OS 4.0 next year.
On a hardware note, I wonder what version of the PowerVR SGX is in the new iPhone. The SGX520 as Anand predicts or the SGX530 as the Palm Pre. I'm guessing the teardown wouldn't be informative on this and we'll have to wait for driver analysis.
Speaking of fast web browsing.... i use opera mini on my google Ion phone (android). It delivers full browsing experience and it's blazing fast. Opera mini loads anandtech.com over my 3g network in just 9 seconds. You should try!
Thats how apple stays in business right there, everyone thinks throwing money at overpriced products IT will get better eventually.. ZING!
I don't know why this review is comparing it to a Iphone, Iphone is outclassed by other smartphones as it is, why not compare it to a real phone like a HTC touch or the like? You know, a phone that is popular with regular people and not hollywood hipsters only..
Downvote if you want, but the FACT of the matter is, the Iphone is a niche market, look at the top phones sold by At&T, the basic flip phone is still the best selling phone in the world, the HTC touch even outsells the iphone 10-1. Like I mentioned before, I know one person who has a iphone and he only got it because parents got it to him as a going away to collage gift.
Where are you coming up with these stats from? Please show me one reliable source that says the HTC Touch outsells the iPhone 10-1. Please leave the bs in your dreams.
One thing I find funny about arguments that the iPhone lacks basic features found in other phones is that despite this Apple has still sold 21 million iPhones as of March 2009, which is quite a success for a company that wasn't in the cell phone business 2 years ago. The question other phone manufacturers should be thinking about is what happens when the iPhone incorporates many of these lacking hard features in addition to the fluffy pizzaz it already has? How much additional demand will there be for a full featured iPhone?
The reviews agree, the HTC Touch isn't in the same class of smartphone as the iPhone. Most phones will outsell things like the iPhone; lower prices and lower monthly fees will determine quantities, but the space the iPhone competes in is the high end smartphone market where the stakes/players are a bit different.
Same. I know 2 ppl that had iPhones. 1 was my techy friend, who took it to the shooting range and unloaded his rifle at it after 5 months of use. The other is my wife's friend who only knows how to call and text on it (not sure WHY she got it... oh, yeah, it's COOL).
But I can think of at least 8 ppl that have a Blackberry... :)
Nokia N97, europe's answer to all american hyped up marketing trash. N97 unlocked, using Fring to escape that other american trash, US cellphone pre-nups.
Voip, sip account, sweetness. symbian s60 5th is a bit shaky, but then again there isn't a perfect Os for new cellphone model that comes out every 3months, thanks to Taiwan,Korea and China new handset are out every 24hrs. the only win for Apple here is a lot of laid off engineers creating adobe flash games for the iphone, how else would you get 50,000 apps. my hope is Nokia's answer apple in the next 6month with dual cores Arm.
im glad you're happy with your 700 US dollar phone.
dumb americans are happy to get a free phone and use the same carrier for a couple of years, probably because almost every network is essentially the same in terms of features/cost.
on a side note, something needs to be done about the word american.
america is a big continent, people commonly refer to those living in the USA as "americans".
it would be more fitting if we were dubbed usa'ians our something so our neighbors dont get insulted by accident.
which brings me to my last point, in response to the actual article!
it is odd indeed how the messaging protocol varies regionally, i think the major reason most people in the US use AIM, is because we were all introduced to the splendor of the internet by aol in the 90's, then when broadband became available people switched over and kept their AIM screen names. Those that used a different isp just used AIM because everyone else was on aol, etc.
Peoples elsewhere probably used icq, until msn/yahoo came along and freed them from oppression.
"Multitasking has been done by many smartphones before the Pre or iPhone, but no one has done it as smooth and as Apple-like as Palm."
We're in the 3rd generation of iphones now and they still cant multitask. If palm does it perfectly, calling it "apple-like" is certainly inappropriate. Palms Pre is now the yardstick for multitasking on the mobile sector. Credit where credit is due, please.
I meant it in a flattering way. That sort of praise is normally reserved for Apple; bestowing it upon Palm, not traditionally a recipient of such praise was intended to be an honor :-P
"Shame on Nokia, Motorola and the established cell phone industry for failing to do what it took Palm two years to do."
Ok, so this point is made followed by compliments for multitasking and the cloud syncing however Nokia have had a similar multitasking system implemented in S60 for years (hold the app button to get a list of all apps and change to them as you want). Background apps can have their own data connections without interfering with each other and if you do push them too far the phone will warn you it's running low on memory. I find it strange that the lack of multitasking which is really a requisite for a smartphone has been so overlooked with the Iphone. Nokia's Ovi product lets you sync your system remotely or you can hook your contacts directly into the likes of Facebook with the latest version of S60.
While Nokia lack the flash of other companies however Apple still cannot match the featureset of the S60 phones that were out before the Iphone 2G and I find their core features to be extremely strong particularly signal reception - the 5800 can hold onto a signal where no other phone can which makes it considerably more useful given it is a phone after all.
While Nokia has done a great job adding features to its phones over the years, on the UI side the innovation just hasn't been there. Both Apple and Palm deliver far more usable, simple and smooth UIs on their smart phones than I've seen from anyone else.
If your cellphone UI has never bothered you then Nokia more than delivers capable handsets, however I believe (and I feel that a significant portion of the high end smartphone market agrees) that it's only been since the iPhone that we've seen real attention paid towards improving UI and user experience on these phones. Palm does a wonderful job of carrying the torch for the next leg imho.
I totally agree. Everyone keeps harping on this article regarding the "features" and how they've been available for a long time in other phones. The feature-set aside, these phones just offer a level of smoothness and ease of use in the UI that 90% of the population is wowed about. Sure my old Treo offered a lot of functionality but it took an Apple to take the key components and make it such a pleasure to use.
Please define "genuine smartphone". Enlighten us to what the iPhone cannot do (and do well) that a Nokia smartphone would be a better choice for the masses? I switched to an iPhone after years of using Nokia, Motorola, Sony, Samsung and Blackberry phones. I even have a Treo 750 from work right now and I absolute hate it and all the former phones I've used and constantly switched between.
TheProf, Connoisseur and Anand hit the nail on the head. It's the interface and usability, not the features that make a smart phone a commercial success. You can have a 12 megapixel phone with an OLED display, but with horrible software, support and application support. It will fail despite the strength of its hardware.
I've been reading a lot about the Palm Pre's problems since launch - overheating, poor battery life, and software crashes. Don't forget that a smart phone's function is to be a phone first, and everything else after. If you can't use its features without affecting it's essential functionality as a phone, it's a failure.
I don't see the point in having a fancy UI if there's nothing underneath it, I expect a lot of functionality from a smartphone (otherwise I would use a normal phone) and Apple still seems to be far behind where Nokia were years before. If you want a fashion phone then yes, a fancy UI is definitely a desirable feature.
Also, I still fail to see why you 'shame' Nokia then praise Palm for a system which Nokia have had for many years.
I believe that the iPhone and Pre do offer much more than a fancy UI, I believe they offer a good balance of features and good interface. Not holding phone makers to a high standard when it comes to UI is how we ended up in this mess in the first place, I don't believe now is the time to go back to our old ways.
I'm not shaming Nokia for its multitasking support, I'm shaming Nokia for not producing a comparable Pre-like or iPhone-like UI in the years since the original iPhone's release. In my mind it should have been Nokia and Motorola who built the first iPhone, they had the experience; for Apple to come in and build such a successful smartphone indicates that there's something wrong with the way the established makers approach phone designs.
That's because Nokia make genuine smartphones, not devices pretending to be smartphones just because they have a fancier interface - on the initial Iphone release it was missing features even standard phones had (such as proper bluetooth support). I honestly don't know how a phone as basic as the Iphone gets such a free ride on what is supposed to be a tech site - it's very slowly getting there but to me a device without multitasking cannot be considered a smartphone as that severely limits the device.
Even on media features Nokia had Apple beaten hands down and still do in some areas, I'm waiting for the next release in the drip feed series of Iphones which will have a decent camera as at the moment they seem to be around three years behind on that front.
Overall I just much prefer Nokia's approach to a mobile phone - pack as many features into a phone to make it a powerful device rather than Apple's approach of putting at little as possible to force people to upgrade constantly. I guess I'll never understand how tech sites can get so wowed by an interface they can completely overlook the lack of any substance underneath it.
That's because to most non-PhoneGeeks, a good interface to a feature is more important than the feature itself. Usability trumps power in most if not all cases.
If a feature is too hard to find or too hard to use, it might as well not exist, for whatever values of 'too hard to find' or 'too hard to use' apply. "pack[ing] as many features into a phone to make it a powerful device" may appeal to tech geeks, but it doesn't fly with the broader computing audience, let alone the general public.
That's the true overriding 'feature' of the iPhone and the Pre; they take features that existed in previous phones, but were so complicated that hardly anyone used them, and made them things that a much broader audience actually *enjoy* using.
Now I'm not actually expecting a G2 review at any point, but Android is only brought up twice in this whole review? The G1 has been out for 8 months and already pulls from the cloud (Google natively, and I believe it can pull from Facebook) and has multi-tasking. Two of the things you say you really like about the Pre. The G1 isn't as good as the iPhone (for the most part), and I know that, but the G2 is supposed to be much better, and I would like to see how Android stacks up against webOS, at the very least.
I played with the G1 while writing this review, while I think the OS has some definite promise - the current hardware is just disappointing. Multitasking has been around long before any of these phones, yet it was the Pre's interface and relative quickness that made it a very desktop-like experience. The next-generation of Android based phones will hopefully deliver a full set of gestures and better performance; I think that would be the appropriate time to look at a comparison.
To my knowledge, Android doesn't natively handle Facebook integration and has no mechanism for removing dupes between Gmail/Facebook contacts on the fly. Google (Android) is closer than anyone else (other than Palm) right now though.
You are saying the G1 doesn't cut it simply because of Facebook integration??
Newsflash... plenty of people (and phone geeks) don't care one bit about Facebook. That's a terrible reason to knock the G1.
As for hardware, the G1 shouldn't be judged only for its hardware. The G1 is all about Android.
The G1 has PLENTY of functionality that most review sites completely ignore. Does the iPhone (or Pre) have widgets? Do either of these phones have skins/themes/ or home screen replacements that include custom icons/backgrounds? These features greatly enhance the customization/usability options of the phone yet nobody seems to care.
I use apps every day on my G1 that Apple would never allow on the iPhone. The Pre may have great synching capabilities, but it has a similar notification bar like the G1 yet nobody gives the G1 credit.
You say the Pre gives a better "desktop experience" but the G1 is EXACTLY like using a laptop. I have the icons where I want them, I use the app tray like the Start button (XP), I have shortcuts to every function I could want, and separate home-screens for each category of app (Home, Settings, Games, Contacts, Multimedia, etc.), I have widgets set up on the various screens that provide me with information and functionality (from weather to wireless settings)... the list goes on. I haven't even mentioned the browsers which are excellent.
I often jog with my G1. Here's what it does for me:
-I open one app that plays streaming internet radio (over stereo bluetooth)
-I turn on the GPS and use another app to track my workout. The app reads back my elapsed time and distance aloud so I don't have to interrupt my music or look at the phone to check my stats. Then, when my run is done, it uploads the info and emails me a summary of my workout which includes a map and detailed stats regarding time and distance.
Can the iPhone/Pre do that? The iPhone can't even run 2 apps at once!
Android is not a small player in this game. Let's give it a little more credit, ok?
"As for hardware, the G1 shouldn't be judged only for its hardware. The G1 is all about Android. "
I agree that the G1 is nothing without Android.
I agree that Android is extremely important.
But where we disagree is the value of the hardware. In my eyes, the G1's hardware keeps it out of the running for the top places. It lacks all of the major gestures that the iPhone and Pre support and the UI/device is much, much slower.
Many PCs can run an impressive set of applications, but what we're looking for is the right combination of features and performance - the latter just isn't delivered by the G1. I do fully expect future versions to fix that however, I just don't believe the time is now. And I believe most of the reviews of the G1 echo my sentiments; the hardware doesn't do the software justice.
Just as a quick reply, the only reason Android doesn't have multi-touch is because they were afraid they would get sued by Apple for having it. Everyone was. It's not big news/problem because since Palm has been in the PDA game much longer than Apple, they have patents that Apple are probably infringing, too. There are cooked roms out there that show that the G1's screen is fully capable of multi-touch. Now that Palm has shown that it can be implemented without being sued, I fully expect it to show up in the 2.0 version of Android.
"Even the individual buttons on the Pre don’t feel as good as those on the iPhone. The ringer and sleep switches both feel cheap."
But does the ringer switch fall off as easily as the one on my iphone? Personally, I dont care if some parts feel or look cheap, as long as they arent cheap - like the ringer switch on the iphone.
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viciki123 - Monday, February 22, 2010 - link
http://www.weddingdressonlineshop.co.uk/23-mermaid...">http://www.weddingdressonlineshop.co.uk/23-mermaid...jmyette - Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - link
I've been very disappointed by the Pre and had to switch back to my Treo 700p. I'd say of you like Palm OS and its effective PIM applications (calendar, contacts, tasks and memos), you probably won't like the Pre. Otherwise, I think the Pre may be a good choice. The best review of the Pre I found:http://palmprelansing.blogspot.com/2009/07/pre-rev...">http://palmprelansing.blogspot.com/2009...pre-revi...
http://palmprelansing.blogspot.com/2009/07/pre-rev...">http://palmprelansing.blogspot.com/2009/07/pre-rev...
s1ugh34d - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link
I'm lost on why the Iphone is the definition of a phone. Last I checked my HTC WinMo phone has just about all the same features. Can't a palm be compared to The Touch Pro. I see the journalistic approach, using palm vs apple. But others mentioned android why is anandtech so in love with their Iphones...Also wouldn't cell phone fall under "mobile" on the tab bar.
s1ugh34d - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link
I missed the messaging part. Since Iphone users can't use it, they don't know what multiple messaging is. Palringo, a WinMo/blackberry app, runs every IM service you ever had.Love the magnetic charger, My toothbrush has that, and I always thought that it should be used for small devices.
The palm does kick a little Iphone butt, but WinMo blows that phone away, they just need multi-touch on the touch pro2
Jeff7181 - Saturday, June 27, 2009 - link
A coworker of mine says the phone gets really hot when in use for extended periods of time. Not sure if it's from the backlight for the display or just the battery discharging. Either way, the result is a very hot phone and apparently a discolored screen. He's replaced his already once because of some yellowish discoloration at the bottom edge of the screen that spreads the more it's used.macs - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link
Guys take a look at the new HTC Hero with Androidmacs - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link
SorryThis is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU&eur...">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbc...r%2FHTC&...
bored2tears - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link
Techies, come on! Really? Are we such navel-gazers that we don't get it? Sure, my original Palm, my Tilt and my HTC phone could do stuff that the iPhone and the Pre can't do (yet). But that's not the point.It's ease of use!!!! The satisfaction of the UI!
I don't hit the start menu so I can scroll through file manager. I don't mess around with crappy windows mobile UI to find stuff. And when the new WM comes out, it will prove that ease of use is the point. That's the iphone feature that everyone wants to copy, and rightfully so. The companies get it while the techies play their little "mine is better than yours" one up spec game.
You can turn on my music on the iPhone and surf the web or open another app, etc. AT THE SAME TIME. That's what people want and do. Only people without an iphone don't know that there is some level of multi tasking. I can play most games or use most apps on the iPhone without stopping the music. If I close my web browser to open another app, my web app doesn't go back to the home page. That page stays open. When I click on the web app again, I'm where I left off. Why do I need to have my web browser open while I'm in another program anyway? Now if I'm using something like Pandora, it's a problem. (And that level of multi-tasking would be welcomed Apple!) If I use the pre, I don't have this issue at all. Either way, these phones are initially made for joe public to understand not just for sammy supertech savvy to gush over. And yet, these phones can go up the scale from casual user to business user like myself.
Anyone who's used the pre for an hour knows how absolutely cool it is. And that's a big factor. It's easy to use. Sure it's powerful and I still think these two smart phones (AND the G1) are great. But it's the UI stupid! That's what sells the phone. Don't hate them because they're beautiful. ;-) There is something under the hood.
Ehsan - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
Hi Anand,I am sorry to ask but am bit curious did you use non formated sites for facebook & Slashdot because of too much discrepency of my Iphone 3GS and your numbers of it.
Also I was wondering if you can do a app launching test on Iphone 3GS with a 3rd party app as most of the native apps run services in background (I found this by installing backgrounder app from Cydia after jailbreak on 3G and found that many native apps were running in background already). So its not launching from standstill if its half running.
Thanks.
Ehsan
Hrel - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
Att's network is completely useless. Their plans are INCREDIBLY overpriced, and they nickle and dime the living crap out of you... I will NEVER get any cell phone from ATT.That being said, cell phones need to transition to voip over WiiMax, once a Nationwide (world wide) WiiMax network is set up.
Data plans need to be INFITINE data, non of this 5GB per month bullshit!! Text IS data, as you said. Voice, well, is kind of data, and should be ALL data soon.
I don't think sprints network is reliable enough to switch though.
Battery life needs to hit 20hrs+.
I want a smart phone from LG, that I OWN, not that BELONGS to a cell phone company. So I can buy the phone, and take it to whatever network I want, Verizon, Net 10, Boost, Sprint, whatever. LG makes great stuff.
Can you PLEASE review the LG smart phones that ARE out, like the Env, and the other one that costs like 30 bucks more... I forget the name right now.
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
What is the most important feature of a phone with unlimited data? Obviously it is to be able to provide a broadband internet connection for my desktop pc so I can get away from the comcast bloodsuckers. I find it curious that Anand doesnt even answer this most important of questions. lol. One can only wonder what kind of world Anand lives in ... sheesh... only a moron would do anything more than talk or txt on one of these stupid things.T2k - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
Like in many other occasions AT misses the point again - Pre is nothing like the iPhone, let alone aiming at it. If it's aiming anything then it's rather the Blackberry and its integrated communication services - which iPhone never came even close to, let alone matching it.iPhone is a geek (music/net/media) phone but NOT a smartphone - what kind of a smartphone could it be with NO MULTITASKING whatsoever?
You might can get almost as much stupid little apps as on WinMo - I doubt it though - but the lack of multitasking by itself makes it immediately a laughable proposition, let alone the long-missing other features that took Apple 2+ YEARS to fix, only to catch up with top phones from 2007...
Typical Apple-RDF idiocy at its best - Anand really needs to pull out his head of Jobs' @ss and needs to take a reality trip to overseas and see how laughable his iPhone is when compared to high-end phones in Europe and Asia (as a matter of fact it's quite embarrassing to have an iPhone in Japan.)
There's a reason why Blackberry beats Apple even in the US, which is typically the strongest market for Apple - it's the fact that iPhone is a reat piece for pseudo-business people but no real corporate person would touch it (would you give out your most sensitive communication for Apple? Because that's what you do with iPhone.)
Palm Pre is FAR AHEAD of iPhone but it's not a big step - there are plenty of phones well ahead of iPhone, there's nothing to see here in this regard, sorry.
finbarqs - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
Here's what I think that needs to be improved:The balance of the phone. The phone is top heavy, making it very difficult to use it single handed. Additionally, the keyboard is too far away from the screen to call it "useable" with the screen when you have it with one hand. This makes me wish it has a virtual Keyboard! Battery life... well.. is left to be desired. Full charge at 3PM (more like 2:30) talked 3 times, but texted a lot, used e-mail and AIM. lasted t'il approximately 10PM. the talk times lasted approximately 3-4 minutes each.
Slow reaction when launching applications: Anand hit the nail on the head on this one. Still nice, but not as fast as apple. Still time for improvements on this one!
Anyways, Now that the iPhone has 3.0 out, I think it's a serious contender in the smartphone world! Palm pre also lacks video recording and the AF of apple's iphone 3Gs!!!
Ehsan - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
Hi Anand,When starting messaging part of your review you opened with "The iPhone perfected text messaging". Can you please explain what you meant by this? Did you mean to say that they perfected it from the original one came on 1st Iphone or you meant they perfected it for all smartphones? Because if you meant later you are wrong. It was Palm who implemented threaded sms/mms in Palm OS in Treo 650 times and later customized it on Win Mob for their WM based treos. They were the first and only one till Apple copied that idea. How is that for wakeup call Apple fansboys??
Thanks.
Ehsan
T2k - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
Nope, it's just another idiocy - iPhone NEVER been a desired texting phone, let alone bringing anything new (originally there wasn't even landscape email writing, let alone the still-missing MMS) - this is just one of the countless ignorant and stupid claims of this article.
Again, Anand badly needs to do some research before he starts putting out more of this kind of embarrassingly ingorant articles...
Sazar - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
I think what Anand is trying to suggest is the format of texting in the iPhone is what is almost perfect.It is essentially like a chat, a running conversation between the parties concerned.
Using various other phones, I became accustomed to running conversations, but they were never really structured. I am sure other phone makers have excellent implementations, but the iPhone really did raise the bar for me.
With 0S 3.0 and it's landscape keyboard, it is doubly awesome :)
Ehsan - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link
I fully understand what Anand may be trying to suggest but what I want Anand and you to know is this running conversation between parties, like chat, is called "threaded messaging" which Palm introduces in its Treo 600 days. It was perfect and Palm included IM into it in their new WebOS so not only your sms and mms are in chat format but also your aol and gtalk IM's are in same chat window.What I am suggesting is please give credit where credit is due. Apple implementation of "threaded messaging" is carbon copy of Palm's version which they introduced long time ago in treo 600. Please check out history.
T2k - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
How about this one?" Coming from the iPhone, this is a huge omission (Apple probably holds the patent on awesome predictive text input, Palm would probably have to clean Jobs‘ toilets weekly to get access to that one). "
Yeah.... you know, it's more than awkward to read things like this in a well-publicized article from a well-known person, on a much-hyped site...
...because this level of ignorance, lack of even basic research (there are at least half a dozen predictive text technologies out there and iPhone is pretty far from being the best) would immediately result in a permanent publication ban at any half-decent news organization or site.
In best case - say you are a junior journo - your editor would be reprimanded and you would be put back in some associate position but in worst case - if you were an editor - you'd be released immediately.
JC Strat - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
Dear Anand,I hesitate to point this out....
Several of the sites (slashdot, facebook) that you loaded on the iPhone 3GS loaded disproportionately faster on the 3GS than the pre based on other site load times.
It has been suggested that these sites detect the user agent of the iPhone and serve up an optimized site for the iPhone. This has been suggested by using a user agent switcher with Safari. Set it to "Mobile Safari 3.0" - the iPhone browser - and the site loads much quicker even on the same mac.
From a recent post at Precentral.net:
--------------
Even if you don't have an iPhone, you can test it yourself if you have a Mac, and are running Safari 4. Go to the Develop menu on a new tab, and change the user agent to Mobile Safari 3.0 and load up slashdot.org. Now open a new tab (the user agent will default to the regular one) and open up slashdot.org. Compare the two. Notice the differences? Of course the one on iPhone loads faster- it's a different freaking version!! Similar thing on facebook.com.
--------------
Can you confirm that your tests loaded the exact same version of these pages, and that facebook and slashdot did not serve up different versions of their content to the iPhone that was less data or optimized specifically for the iPhone? The evidence seems pretty compelling that if your user agent is "Mobile Safari 3.0" you get a different version of the page, and comparing that with the Pre loading the full generic site is not valid.
I mention this because a variety of news and gadget sites have carried this as evidence of a 20+ % advantage of the iPhone 3GS over the Pre in rendering web pages. If they are not rendering the same page and data, then that needs to be explicitly acknowledged.
It may be that this turns out to be nothing, and the 3GS is rendering the exact same data and page that much faster than the Pre on these sites. But the discrepancy and possible explanation of an iPhone-optimized page should be explored and brought to light.
Personally whether it's 24% or 6% faster than the Pre, I couldn't care less. They are both awesome phones. However, it is appropriate to give the Pre a fair shake.
TheJediSlayer - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
Very, very extensive article between the iPhone and the Palm Pre, which I like.Although the iPhone has a quicker response time, smoother layout, and is more sturdy, I have to nail it in this respect. The fact that the iPhone has a "closed" application network for users and that the iPhone doesn't allow for multi-tasking makes the phone looks very undesirable, for me at least.
However, the Palm Pre has an "open" network for application downloading where everyone can contribute to it, like Androi's market. They offer multi-tasking, which is a MUST need for me and I'm sure just about everyone else.
The one thing that disappoints me about the Palm Pre is not its short-comings when it comes to Syngery, IMing, or anything else It's rather the fact that the device itself doesn't sound physically sturdy, as pointed out in the article. I'm sure it would take a big of doing to smash the Palm Pre, but I'm sure I'll end up dropping my own Palm Pre and I want to know that I'm not about to end up with a dead-unit because of one drop.
Nevertheless, the Palm Pre is something I will most definitely consider as I prepare to get my first smartphone in the coming months. I'd much rather the Palm Pre have the Android OS loaded onto it, rather than its own WebOS, but perhaps its changeable?
palmpre - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
Thank you for this great article / review !!The Pre isn't available in France, but many wait already for it !
http://www.palmpre-fr.net">http://www.palmpre-fr.net
JC Strat - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
Hi JMaine, it seems like you have been reading a lot lately.Just to quote from some of your messages here:
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#1
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I've been reading a lot about the Palm Pre's problems since launch - overheating, poor battery life, and software crashes. Don't forget that a smart phone's function is to be a phone first, and everything else after. If you can't use its features without affecting it's essential functionality as a phone, it's a failure.
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#2
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I've been reading many reports about battery issues with the Pre. Multi-tasking implemented poorly is far worse than not having multi-tasking at all. I feel this feature add a level of complexity not many mainstream users will appreciate and is an unnecessary waste of battery life, which contradict the primary purpose a smart-'phone' is there for.
-----------
It sounds like you have been trolling for reasons to put down the Pre. I think the multitasking on the Pre is pretty brilliant. I like having 5 apps open. Currently on my mac I have iTunes playing, this web page open (with other tabs as well), a Finder window open, MS Word is open so I could cut and paste your comments, Xee is open from some recent picture work, etc. I think it's not all that complex, anyone with a PC or a mac understands how to have several programs open. The Pre's cards accomplish switching elegantly.
Now, you seem to have been looking around carefully for stories of people who had problems with their Pre so that you could cast them as general problems in forums such as this one. Why? A strong competitor will make Apple develop a better iPhone. It is in your interest for the Pre to succeed!
Palm has innovated with this phone. As Apple did before it, Palm has implemented ideas that will shape the direction phones go in. Innovation is a good thing. Using FUD to sabotage and stifle it as your comments seem to do is not cool.
The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
If the comments doesn't shout "trolling" then I don't know what will :Djap0nes - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
I think this is one of the worst reviews I've ever seen, and never expected to come from Anand in person. Why do I think that? Basically, because it's not a review, it's a comparison: Palm Pre vs. iPhone.On every single page Apple/iPhone is cited. Okay, they're competitors and all, but when Pre has an advantage, there are comments like 'Apple should do that'. That's ridiculous. I've never seen an review with comments like these. Pure fanboyism.
Please, change the title of the article to: 'Can Palm beat my Iphone' or something like that.
The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
I have to agree with you. I'm not entirely sure why so many users are applauding the review because they think it's an "in depth review." It's not. It's a "got a new phone to compare to Iphone and have to get a general review out ASAP fever/syndrome.I'll be waiting for the "in depth review" of the Pre from Anandtech soon.
However, if reviews use the Iphone as the criteria in the first place you will have reviews such as this one. Unless the Iphone really does set standards I would have to say it's not going to change until people find standards to test phones too. For example, if battery lasts 3hours+ than it should qualify as being a good phone. It shouldn't be said that the Pre is "lagging" or "isn't better" than the Iphone. That's just really giving a bad impression to those that actually do testing in real life. If anything it makes the author look bad IMO.
7Enigma - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
And I'll disagree with you both. :) While a traditional review focuses primarily on the product at hand, this one works for a very good reason that Anand restated over and over. The iPhone has been the dominant force in the "smart" phone for several years now with really no direct competition. There were products that had more functionality, more horsepower, but none that had the complete package. The iPhone didn't and still doesn't but it came the closest. So it makes total sense to compare the Pre directly.It is very similar to the cpu market where you have basically 2 competetors. Could you imagine a new AMD cpu coming out and having no comparisons with the i7? Of course not. The current "best", be that from performance, functionality, or the package deal of all aspects, should always be directly compared to give the reader the best information to making a buying decision.
Now cpu's are easy and objective decisions. You run 10 benchmarks, compare hard data, and declare a winner. Obviously a phone is a different beast. It has an OS, and this makes for subjective issues. What I like you may not like. What I think is functional you may find annoying. But the fact is that Anand, who many of us highly respect for honest and detailed articles/reviews, seems to have a good grasp on the smartphone market, and is ACTIVELY looking for an upgrade option to the iPhone.
Just like we are always looking for a gpu/cpu upgrade by comparing how much better the new part is than our current part, Anand is saying the Pre is coming out years after the iPhone, so it had better damn well match or exceed in all areas that the iPhone already "perfected".
And I think most of us saw through the article to the underlying message, which was to inflate the level of competition between Apple and Palm so that we, the consumer, benefits in the end.
jap0nes - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
I understand what you say and I agree with you, but that didn't happen in the article. I partially understand when you say that "And I think most of us saw through the article to the underlying message, which was to inflate the level of competition between Apple and Palm so that we, the consumer, benefits in the end", but in the end the "review" sounded ridiculous, towards fanboyism.jmaine - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Anand,Thanks for a really well written comparison between the Pre and the iPhone. A few comments:
"The multitasking ability of the Pre is honestly one of two features I really, really wish my iPhone had. Multitasking has been done by many smartphones before the Pre or iPhone, but no one has done it as smooth and as Apple-like as Palm. "
I've been reading many reports about battery issues with the Pre. Multi-tasking implemented poorly is far worse than not having multi-tasking at all. I feel this feature add a level of complexity not many mainstream users will appreciate and is an unnecessary waste of battery life, which contradict the primary purpose a smart-'phone' is there for.
As you noted in the article, Apple built up it's UI and feature set, gradually perfecting each with every successive update. Do you think battery life is a strong reason for them not adding multi-tasking beyond the ipod music into the iPhone? I personally feel push notifications is a better implementation than true multi-tasking on a phone.
Doommidget - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Had to create a login to address something that made me laugh...Thank you for a great review, although I don't hold out much hope of the Pre hitting the UK in the near future. I also think it is right to heavily compare the Pre to the iPhone given that it is the only credible competition for a very user friendly and fairly feature full phone (and by features I don't mean crammed with hardware I mean the services).
I just have to say, to anybody trying to mention Nokia as producing better phones than the iPhone with S60 having more functionality and the handsets having better hardware... this may be true but Nokias implementation is waaaay off. Every new flagship N series phone is plagued with software issues... N95, N96, expect the N97 will follow shortly. 5800 is also terrible for software problems. The list of handsets with poor reliability extends further back than that and will no doubt carry on into the future. Irrespective of whether the hardware in the Nokia phone is quicker, or the camera is better, or the handset is more open, if you have to have your phone replaced or repaired 5 times within a few months of purchasing then to be honest it really isnt worthy of comparison. And I know not everybody has had issues before I get flamed, myself being one of them as I moved from an N95 8GB to the iPhone 3G, but working in the mobile phone market, I can tell you that there are no end of Nokia software problems and virtually no issues with iPhone OS or the hardware.
So iPhone > N series pretty much every time; it may not have 2 processors, open bluetooth, great camera etc, but at least it works.
On a side note, I bet Nokia don't have a 5 day turnaround for fixing or replacing a handset that comes back to them.
Its all about the ecosystem that surrounds the handset, people in the top end of the market are becoming less impressed with pure hardware these days and are looking for more out of their phone with regards to web integration and services, and Apple have pretty much got everything down to a T as it currently stands.
So yes, compare the Pre to the iPhone, the Pre looks potentially worthy as an alternative, but not quite there.
And don't ever try to compare a Nokia to an iPhone, not even in the same ballpark as the iPhone ^_^
/wave
finbarqs - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
YES! Now I can sync with my Exchange!!!!mesiah - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Thank you Anand for your very in depth review. There were a couple things that came to mind while reading this review as well as the comments after.First, I really think the industry needs a new term for the iphones and the pres out there. IMO you have phones, their primary objective is making and recieving calls and text messages with some very light media duties. Then you have smartphones (pocket pc, blackberry, palm os) that are geared towards a balance of voice communication and business software with some light web browsing and media use. I think there should also be a 3rd category, call it superphone if you want. A superphone will make calls, but it browses the web, acts as a audio/video player, handheld game, remote control, and any number of other things just as well. In fact, our superphones have advanced to the point where most reviews don't even mention call quality at all.
Second, for the first few years of the iphone there were two groups. Group 1 who loves their iphone for its simplicity and ability to run all their fun apps. And group 2, the hardcore and business oriented smartphone users who hated the iphone because it lacked so many things their blackberry/treo etc already had years ago (including apps which weren't allowed on the original iphone release.) I will admit that I am a member of the second group. I had friends that ran out to buy an iphone and I just couldn't understand why anyone would want a device that was so limited that you couldn't even install 3rd party software on it. Eventually the app store was released but by then it was too late for some of us. We had already grown to despise the iphone. The iphone faithful on the other hand fell in love with their new phones and quickly forgot about the things it didn't poses. Now that those features are being added, the fact that alot of iphone fanatics act like they are getting great features never before seen in the mobile world only serves to miff those of us from group two a little more. That being said, I hate reading reviews for pre and iphone because both the review and the comments are so heavily biased one way or the other that its of no benefit, it just turns into a big p!ssing match. One group ignores the polish of the iphone and its extensive apps, the other just wants to point a finger at the pres smaller screen, minimal 3rd party software, and reports of screen issues. Although, let me remind you that you are purchasing a totally new product with the pre. There are going to be some defects and you will no doubt hear about them as people are eager to jump on the net and let everyone know about their new product. No manufacturer can guarantee a 100% defect free manufacturing process, especially in the infancy of a product. Its not going to have 40,000 apps at launch and you shouldn't expect it to. Look at it like a video game system, when ps3 (or any other system) launched there were numerous overheating issues and it had a small library of titles. It takes a while for the programmers to get stuff out there. Noone says "I'm not buying a ps3 because there are WAY more games out for nes." and sony realized their overheating issues and corrected them quickly, fast enough that alot of people probably don't even know they existed. Except for those early adopters out there and people that saw all of the pictures online of store demo units freezing up.
Either way, for the most part I don't think any review on the internet is going to change 99% of peoples minds. Iphone lovers will continue to buy iphones, ignore its drawbacks, and hate any product that attempts to build on their success. And iphone haters are going to buy anything out there that does all of those things that they need or want it to do, yet secretly wish they could have that cool app their friend does. But this is the first review / comparison I have read that was mostly unbiased and didn't have a full fledged iphone/pre war in the comments section.
Thank you anandtech, you once again deliver a fair review followed by civilized debate.
wifiwolf - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"And I swear if Apple uses this as an attempt to push MobileMe..."
I think you're going to get sued by Apple for stealing their idea.
sprockkets - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
My friends G1 still can't receive files via BT, though I heard they were supposed to have added it by now.Apple just did.
What about the Pre? I hope it has some BT functionality beyond simple headsets.
snookie - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"Curious by Griswold, 13 hours agoBut does the ringer switch fall off as easily as the one on my iphone? Personally, I dont care if some parts feel or look cheap, as long as they arent cheap - like the ringer switch on the iphone."
If there was an issue with iPhone ringer switches it would be well known. There isn't one.
The Pre would have been of interest a year or two ago but I think right now its too little too late. It is cheaply made and there are many reports of issues because of poor quality and users having to exchange for new ones. Personally I find the keyboard unusable as do many others. 8GB of ram is also a showstopper for me. I really have no interest in Sprint since they are even worse than AT&T. Palm as a company is in serious financial difficulty and the Pre is not going to change that given initial sales. The best they can hope for is a buyer who can provide the backing they need. The Pre also really needs to get on Verizon and some better 2nd gen hardware out. I had my iPhone 3GS delivered today and it walks all over the Pre. As much as I like the iPhone and Apple products in general I really would prefer the Pre was a stronger competitor. AT&T sure as hell needs the competition.
Conficio - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Thanks Anand for you excellent, detailed, while personal review.I have had an Apple Newton, a Palm IIIe and have a Treo 600. I love the Pre from what I have seen. I hate any exclusive carrier and any sort of locked phone.
When Palm sells these things unlocked with quadband GSM I'm in. I would even buy a model that does not have a phone but WiFi only, if it comes with an application that calls the number in my address book and makes a connection to one of my three phone numbers (home, work, cell dependent on what Wifi network I'm connected to [home, work, other]). That would be a killer app and increase Palms economies of scale to drive the price down or the profit margin up. Palm I'm looking at you!
canontk - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"You do have the plug the Touchstone into a power outlet (or your computer) and you still need to plug the USB cable into the Pre to sync music/photos/movies"The Touchstone will only work plugged into the wall, you might want to correct that.
I generally like your reviews but this one was mostly how the Pre isn't an iphone. Review the phone for what it is then compare later.
szaijan - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"...In fact, the biggest limit to how fast you can type is the fact that the Pre has no intelligent predictive text engine. It will capitalize new words for you and insert apostrophes when appropriate, but if you misspell a word it won’t correct it on the fly. Coming from the iPhone, this is a huge omission (Apple probably holds the patent on awesome predictive text input, Palm would probably have to clean Jobs‘ toilets weekly to get access to that one)."Actually, the BB Pearl, which I owned before my iPhone, had a far superior predictive text engine. I find the iPhone frequently making undesired "corrections", while I could actually type on my Pearl without looking at the keyboard or making any in situ corrections and the predictive engine got the words right almost all the time. I believe that engine probably predates the iPhone's, so I doubt Apple has a defensible patent on the technique.
AgeOfPanic - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I only see Gmail and Facebook mentioned. I don't really use either. What other options are there for synching? Why not Hotmail, is this a Palm choice or a limitation by Microsoft? I guess Itunes might work for managing your contacts, but who knows for how long.ViRGE - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
While Anand was gushing over it, am I the only person that doesn't want their information syncing over the ambiguous cloud? I'd much rather have it on my home computer, where I'm not subject to the whims of the service provider's uptime, where a mere hacker can't break in and steal any information, where the service provider can't turn around and data mine it or sell it, etc.When my iPhone syncs to Outlook, I know the information is immediately updated on both ends. I know no one else had access to it, and I know that I can easily take it and manipulate it in the future since absolutely everything works with Outlook or a CSV export from Outlook.
The Cloud strikes me as handing over globs of important data to someone else, and praying that they don't find a way to screw up managing it.
The only thing being done right here is that Palm isn't charging for this service like Apple is for MobileMe. Some features (primarily phone location and remote wiping) do need a service provider, and for just those services MobileMe is entirely a rip-off.
strikeback03 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I created a new e-mail address just for Facebook, and that is the only contact info I have listed there. I don't think many of my friends have their info out there for all to see either.casteve - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Palm has said that the Pre will work with old Palm OS apps...does this mean you can sync your Pre to Palm Desktop?Any info regarding security features? What's the level of crypto for password lock? What level of encryption is used for Palm's cloud/syncing?
djc208 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I need one without a camera. I wish someone would look at non-camera phone options for those of us that can't take them to work. We're stuck with with the crap phones in the bargin bin or a very limited selection of Blackberries, and I don't really need the blackberry specific services, I just want a good phone without a camera.Since I'm on Sprint I'd seriously consider the Pre but the camera makes it a non-starter, and I have a moral issue with purposely breaking the camera on a brand new phone.
Thanks for the review, but I guess I'll continue to stand outside the ride and drool.
one1 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
You forgot to note that you can start dialing/searching for a contact to dial by simply dialing at the launch screen, or typing out a contact name. This feature is also in Palm's treo devices.
You can see this here: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3641655962_577...">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3641655962_577...
You missed some gestures as well, you do not need to press the home button to get to home. simply flick up from below the home button and you can get home. Flick up again, and you get the launcher. Flick up yet again and the launcher goes back down. I've rarely found a reason to press the home button.
Kyusaku - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"The iPhone also includes a Google search box and a button toolbar on the screen by default as well. There is no room for these on the Pre so they are all nearly absent."In the Pre browser you have no need to go to the address bar or a search box unless copy and pasting. As long as you're not in a text field, just start typing and the browser will either Google search or go to the address you just typed it.
solipsism - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Dear Anand,It appears you tested the iPhone’s WebKit browser engine from v2.x not from the latest v3.0. I know that it just came out about 30 hours ago, but I humbly request that you include the iPhone 3G v3.0 browser tests in the next article you are sure to do about the iPhone 3GS v. Palm Pre.
Thank you for your time.
PS: While no disk sharing is set yet they are allowing you to share your MobileMe iDisk in the future, according to this Apple Page (toward bottom)…
• http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3g-s/more-featu...">http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3g-s/more-featu...
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
The iPhone 3G tests were performed with OS 3.0, I just re-verified the results this morning after getting the 3GS.Take care,
Anand
MultiCarrierUser - Thursday, June 25, 2009 - link
Wow, nice to virtually meet you. I am siked to be able to converse with you on the blog. I am part of the Sprint Support team for the Pre when it was first released. I must say the device did very well. I gave excellent support and more of the support were help and how to's, nothing dealing with failures or wanting to return the phone. I demo the phone daily, I am even beginning to write the cool apps to add to the pre's App Store. I wanted to ask you if you could run the test between the iphone 3GS and Palm Pre' using AT&T internet and Sprint's internet only? My suggestion, wipe both phones clean and leave the programming, to ensure cache, cookies, histoy, saved, bookmarks are all deleted out of the phone. Major city test is fine, somewhere that has both At&T best and fastest data coverage and Sprint has it's fastest data coverage and time the sites being pulled up. I site that is rich www.msnbc.com; cnn.com disney.com (my son loves tht site) and just see what can they really do. Anand, do you agree that the iphone has so many apps to cover up that its quicker to click an app for almost any scenerio vs having to launch the web and browse to it?mjhorn - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"The other thing that would be nice to have? The ability to start typing a name from the keypad screen instead of having to open up the contacts window to search for someone"This is an option. Go into the Phone App, click on the Menu and choose Preferences. Turn "Show Contact Matches" On. Then type away on the dialpad for names.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Thank you!!!I've updated the article accordingly :)
Take care,
Anand
Cobra Commander - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I just want to thank you for not swinging off of Jobs' left nut and being exceptionally objective and observant. Having just preordered my 3GS I do not expect to be disappointed as I'm jumping into the smartphone market finally but there's been WAY too many reviewers pussyfooting around stating direct, strong opinions on the finer details of Pre v. iPhone. They may have GENERALLY said the same thing from a bird's eye view but like I said: walking on eggshells, almost apologizing for commending Palm in any way.nycromes - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I think Anand did a pretty good job with the review, I was kicking around the idea of picking up a new Pre sometime soon and this review just pushed me over the top. I am going to get one ASAP.All that being said, I am somewhat disappointed in this review. I have to agree with other posters that the article was a confusing piece (Palm Pre Review or Iphone wish list). Certainly the Pre has some room to improve (hopefully software updates can address some of the issues Anand described). I know that the Iphone is a very popular phone and as such it will be one of the top comparison phones, but people still give Apple way too much leeway for cutting out features in the name of a simple experience. I am happy to see Palm doing what it can to put features back into a phone that gives a similar to the Iphone experience.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Thanks guys. I see it this way: Apple set the bar very high with the iPhone, to take a step backwards in anything the iPhone perfected is bound to be disappointing. No visual voicemail? No full system-wide search? Slower app launches and choppier animations? These, in my mind, are unacceptable given that Apple already provided the market with a good blueprint of what to do.If Palm didn't force me to give anything up that the iPhone delivered, I would switch in a heartbeat. I either want Palm to perfect the Pre or Apple to adopt Pre-features, I don't really care which one happens, I just want at least one of them to happen :)
Take care,
Anand
nycromes - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
The article makes more sense when you put it that way. Again, thanks for the great review. It helped me make up my mind on the Pre.Lozil - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Ya, Multitasking, Being cool, Physical keyboard. The Phone just seems Right.I don't understand why Anand is so inclined to iPhone..! Even when the Pre is better, You Just doesn't want to agree on that, Just wants Apple to give those Features...
Man i got confused... It's a Palm Pre Review or iPhone Enhancement Request... :P
bigboxes - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Thanks for this timely (and in depth) product review. Sounds like Palm has a lot of optimization to do with the OS before I'd ulitmately consider it for my next phone.My quick research shows that this device does not have an expansion slot for memory. Does the Pre allow you to install additional codecs? It supports MP4, H263 and H264, but not the XviD codec. Although I encode my videos using the X264 codec these days, I have a lot of DivX/XviD files in my collection. Does it allow users to assign an mp3 as a ringtone or does it require users to use a specific format? Palm's website lists "Bluetooth tethering" as a feature. Any chance that you tested that out? Speaking of bluetooth, how is this device's performance with other bluetooth devices? The security setup? How is the call quality when using the phone with no headset? The microphone? Does Palm have any plans on upgrading the Pre to a metal housing or even offering one in the near future? I'd also like to see support for MSN IM or maybe offer a Trillian-like app (or something like that).
cjb110 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
A lot of the Pre reviews have mentioned the keyboard being ok, but not great. None of them mention the bonus of actually having all of screen space available while you type. Yea the iphone and android's have bigger screens, but so what if you loose half every time the keyboard appears.prophet001 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
absolutely hilarious "dude i just took the biggest poop. wanna see?"strikeback03 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Didn't he use that in his first iPhone review? Which didn't have picture messaging?Rolphus - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Anand,On the browser performance page, I couldn't spot any mention of which version of the iPhone OS you're using for comparison? I've found 3.0 to be much faster, having benefited from the updated WebKit builds including the "Nitro" JS engine and general render speed improvements (I assume the Pre has this build as well). Would you mind clarifying or pointing me toward the answer?
Many thanks,
Rolphus
ltcommanderdata - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/iphone-3g-s-repa...">http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/iphon...one-3g-s...Well the first teardown of the iPhone 3G S seems to confirm that Apple too uses a ARM A8 Cortex SoC with PowerVR SGX as predicted. I wonder if the hardware similarity between the Palm Pre and the new iPhone will put pressure on Apple to implement multitasking. They could argue hardware limitations for the older models, but it's difficult to hold back now that the Pre has shown it can be done well on newer hardware. Sadly, it'll probably be the major new feature of iPhone OS 4.0 next year.
On a hardware note, I wonder what version of the PowerVR SGX is in the new iPhone. The SGX520 as Anand predicts or the SGX530 as the Palm Pre. I'm guessing the teardown wouldn't be informative on this and we'll have to wait for driver analysis.
OCedHrt - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
My HTC has predictive text input (based on key locality) in case of a miss so I don't think Apple has a patent on it.macs - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Speaking of fast web browsing.... i use opera mini on my google Ion phone (android). It delivers full browsing experience and it's blazing fast. Opera mini loads anandtech.com over my 3g network in just 9 seconds. You should try!imaheadcase - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Thats how apple stays in business right there, everyone thinks throwing money at overpriced products IT will get better eventually.. ZING!I don't know why this review is comparing it to a Iphone, Iphone is outclassed by other smartphones as it is, why not compare it to a real phone like a HTC touch or the like? You know, a phone that is popular with regular people and not hollywood hipsters only..
Downvote if you want, but the FACT of the matter is, the Iphone is a niche market, look at the top phones sold by At&T, the basic flip phone is still the best selling phone in the world, the HTC touch even outsells the iphone 10-1. Like I mentioned before, I know one person who has a iphone and he only got it because parents got it to him as a going away to collage gift.
jmaine - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Where are you coming up with these stats from? Please show me one reliable source that says the HTC Touch outsells the iPhone 10-1. Please leave the bs in your dreams.ltcommanderdata - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
One thing I find funny about arguments that the iPhone lacks basic features found in other phones is that despite this Apple has still sold 21 million iPhones as of March 2009, which is quite a success for a company that wasn't in the cell phone business 2 years ago. The question other phone manufacturers should be thinking about is what happens when the iPhone incorporates many of these lacking hard features in addition to the fluffy pizzaz it already has? How much additional demand will there be for a full featured iPhone?Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
The reviews agree, the HTC Touch isn't in the same class of smartphone as the iPhone. Most phones will outsell things like the iPhone; lower prices and lower monthly fees will determine quantities, but the space the iPhone competes in is the high end smartphone market where the stakes/players are a bit different.Take care,
Anand
rudy - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link
I cant find any provider which sells an HTC touch cheaper then an iPhone.Stas - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Same. I know 2 ppl that had iPhones. 1 was my techy friend, who took it to the shooting range and unloaded his rifle at it after 5 months of use. The other is my wife's friend who only knows how to call and text on it (not sure WHY she got it... oh, yeah, it's COOL).But I can think of at least 8 ppl that have a Blackberry... :)
anandtech02148 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Nokia N97, europe's answer to all american hyped up marketing trash. N97 unlocked, using Fring to escape that other american trash, US cellphone pre-nups.Voip, sip account, sweetness. symbian s60 5th is a bit shaky, but then again there isn't a perfect Os for new cellphone model that comes out every 3months, thanks to Taiwan,Korea and China new handset are out every 24hrs. the only win for Apple here is a lot of laid off engineers creating adobe flash games for the iphone, how else would you get 50,000 apps. my hope is Nokia's answer apple in the next 6month with dual cores Arm.
snarfbot - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
im glad you're happy with your 700 US dollar phone.dumb americans are happy to get a free phone and use the same carrier for a couple of years, probably because almost every network is essentially the same in terms of features/cost.
on a side note, something needs to be done about the word american.
america is a big continent, people commonly refer to those living in the USA as "americans".
it would be more fitting if we were dubbed usa'ians our something so our neighbors dont get insulted by accident.
which brings me to my last point, in response to the actual article!
it is odd indeed how the messaging protocol varies regionally, i think the major reason most people in the US use AIM, is because we were all introduced to the splendor of the internet by aol in the 90's, then when broadband became available people switched over and kept their AIM screen names. Those that used a different isp just used AIM because everyone else was on aol, etc.
Peoples elsewhere probably used icq, until msn/yahoo came along and freed them from oppression.
Griswold - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"Multitasking has been done by many smartphones before the Pre or iPhone, but no one has done it as smooth and as Apple-like as Palm."We're in the 3rd generation of iphones now and they still cant multitask. If palm does it perfectly, calling it "apple-like" is certainly inappropriate. Palms Pre is now the yardstick for multitasking on the mobile sector. Credit where credit is due, please.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I meant it in a flattering way. That sort of praise is normally reserved for Apple; bestowing it upon Palm, not traditionally a recipient of such praise was intended to be an honor :-PTake care,
Anand
Johnmcl7 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"Shame on Nokia, Motorola and the established cell phone industry for failing to do what it took Palm two years to do."Ok, so this point is made followed by compliments for multitasking and the cloud syncing however Nokia have had a similar multitasking system implemented in S60 for years (hold the app button to get a list of all apps and change to them as you want). Background apps can have their own data connections without interfering with each other and if you do push them too far the phone will warn you it's running low on memory. I find it strange that the lack of multitasking which is really a requisite for a smartphone has been so overlooked with the Iphone. Nokia's Ovi product lets you sync your system remotely or you can hook your contacts directly into the likes of Facebook with the latest version of S60.
While Nokia lack the flash of other companies however Apple still cannot match the featureset of the S60 phones that were out before the Iphone 2G and I find their core features to be extremely strong particularly signal reception - the 5800 can hold onto a signal where no other phone can which makes it considerably more useful given it is a phone after all.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
While Nokia has done a great job adding features to its phones over the years, on the UI side the innovation just hasn't been there. Both Apple and Palm deliver far more usable, simple and smooth UIs on their smart phones than I've seen from anyone else.If your cellphone UI has never bothered you then Nokia more than delivers capable handsets, however I believe (and I feel that a significant portion of the high end smartphone market agrees) that it's only been since the iPhone that we've seen real attention paid towards improving UI and user experience on these phones. Palm does a wonderful job of carrying the torch for the next leg imho.
Take care,
Anand
Connoisseur - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I totally agree. Everyone keeps harping on this article regarding the "features" and how they've been available for a long time in other phones. The feature-set aside, these phones just offer a level of smoothness and ease of use in the UI that 90% of the population is wowed about. Sure my old Treo offered a lot of functionality but it took an Apple to take the key components and make it such a pleasure to use.jmaine - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Please define "genuine smartphone". Enlighten us to what the iPhone cannot do (and do well) that a Nokia smartphone would be a better choice for the masses? I switched to an iPhone after years of using Nokia, Motorola, Sony, Samsung and Blackberry phones. I even have a Treo 750 from work right now and I absolute hate it and all the former phones I've used and constantly switched between.TheProf, Connoisseur and Anand hit the nail on the head. It's the interface and usability, not the features that make a smart phone a commercial success. You can have a 12 megapixel phone with an OLED display, but with horrible software, support and application support. It will fail despite the strength of its hardware.
I've been reading a lot about the Palm Pre's problems since launch - overheating, poor battery life, and software crashes. Don't forget that a smart phone's function is to be a phone first, and everything else after. If you can't use its features without affecting it's essential functionality as a phone, it's a failure.
Johnmcl7 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I don't see the point in having a fancy UI if there's nothing underneath it, I expect a lot of functionality from a smartphone (otherwise I would use a normal phone) and Apple still seems to be far behind where Nokia were years before. If you want a fashion phone then yes, a fancy UI is definitely a desirable feature.Also, I still fail to see why you 'shame' Nokia then praise Palm for a system which Nokia have had for many years.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I believe that the iPhone and Pre do offer much more than a fancy UI, I believe they offer a good balance of features and good interface. Not holding phone makers to a high standard when it comes to UI is how we ended up in this mess in the first place, I don't believe now is the time to go back to our old ways.I'm not shaming Nokia for its multitasking support, I'm shaming Nokia for not producing a comparable Pre-like or iPhone-like UI in the years since the original iPhone's release. In my mind it should have been Nokia and Motorola who built the first iPhone, they had the experience; for Apple to come in and build such a successful smartphone indicates that there's something wrong with the way the established makers approach phone designs.
Take care,
Anand
Johnmcl7 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
That's because Nokia make genuine smartphones, not devices pretending to be smartphones just because they have a fancier interface - on the initial Iphone release it was missing features even standard phones had (such as proper bluetooth support). I honestly don't know how a phone as basic as the Iphone gets such a free ride on what is supposed to be a tech site - it's very slowly getting there but to me a device without multitasking cannot be considered a smartphone as that severely limits the device.Even on media features Nokia had Apple beaten hands down and still do in some areas, I'm waiting for the next release in the drip feed series of Iphones which will have a decent camera as at the moment they seem to be around three years behind on that front.
Overall I just much prefer Nokia's approach to a mobile phone - pack as many features into a phone to make it a powerful device rather than Apple's approach of putting at little as possible to force people to upgrade constantly. I guess I'll never understand how tech sites can get so wowed by an interface they can completely overlook the lack of any substance underneath it.
Samus - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
Yea... Nokia's smartphones are 'true' smartphones. Thats why Blackberry and Apple outsell Nokia smartphones like 50:1.Nokia makes sturdy dependable phones, but their IU has the elegence of a VW Golf dashboard. Boring. Boring. Boring.
TheProf - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link
That's because to most non-PhoneGeeks, a good interface to a feature is more important than the feature itself. Usability trumps power in most if not all cases.If a feature is too hard to find or too hard to use, it might as well not exist, for whatever values of 'too hard to find' or 'too hard to use' apply. "pack[ing] as many features into a phone to make it a powerful device" may appeal to tech geeks, but it doesn't fly with the broader computing audience, let alone the general public.
That's the true overriding 'feature' of the iPhone and the Pre; they take features that existed in previous phones, but were so complicated that hardly anyone used them, and made them things that a much broader audience actually *enjoy* using.
cplusplus - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
Now I'm not actually expecting a G2 review at any point, but Android is only brought up twice in this whole review? The G1 has been out for 8 months and already pulls from the cloud (Google natively, and I believe it can pull from Facebook) and has multi-tasking. Two of the things you say you really like about the Pre. The G1 isn't as good as the iPhone (for the most part), and I know that, but the G2 is supposed to be much better, and I would like to see how Android stacks up against webOS, at the very least.Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I played with the G1 while writing this review, while I think the OS has some definite promise - the current hardware is just disappointing. Multitasking has been around long before any of these phones, yet it was the Pre's interface and relative quickness that made it a very desktop-like experience. The next-generation of Android based phones will hopefully deliver a full set of gestures and better performance; I think that would be the appropriate time to look at a comparison.To my knowledge, Android doesn't natively handle Facebook integration and has no mechanism for removing dupes between Gmail/Facebook contacts on the fly. Google (Android) is closer than anyone else (other than Palm) right now though.
Take care,
Anand
mrhumble1 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
This is kinda disappointing, Anand.You are saying the G1 doesn't cut it simply because of Facebook integration??
Newsflash... plenty of people (and phone geeks) don't care one bit about Facebook. That's a terrible reason to knock the G1.
As for hardware, the G1 shouldn't be judged only for its hardware. The G1 is all about Android.
The G1 has PLENTY of functionality that most review sites completely ignore. Does the iPhone (or Pre) have widgets? Do either of these phones have skins/themes/ or home screen replacements that include custom icons/backgrounds? These features greatly enhance the customization/usability options of the phone yet nobody seems to care.
I use apps every day on my G1 that Apple would never allow on the iPhone. The Pre may have great synching capabilities, but it has a similar notification bar like the G1 yet nobody gives the G1 credit.
You say the Pre gives a better "desktop experience" but the G1 is EXACTLY like using a laptop. I have the icons where I want them, I use the app tray like the Start button (XP), I have shortcuts to every function I could want, and separate home-screens for each category of app (Home, Settings, Games, Contacts, Multimedia, etc.), I have widgets set up on the various screens that provide me with information and functionality (from weather to wireless settings)... the list goes on. I haven't even mentioned the browsers which are excellent.
I often jog with my G1. Here's what it does for me:
-I open one app that plays streaming internet radio (over stereo bluetooth)
-I turn on the GPS and use another app to track my workout. The app reads back my elapsed time and distance aloud so I don't have to interrupt my music or look at the phone to check my stats. Then, when my run is done, it uploads the info and emails me a summary of my workout which includes a map and detailed stats regarding time and distance.
Can the iPhone/Pre do that? The iPhone can't even run 2 apps at once!
Android is not a small player in this game. Let's give it a little more credit, ok?
J
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
I think this is the key point we differ on:"As for hardware, the G1 shouldn't be judged only for its hardware. The G1 is all about Android. "
I agree that the G1 is nothing without Android.
I agree that Android is extremely important.
But where we disagree is the value of the hardware. In my eyes, the G1's hardware keeps it out of the running for the top places. It lacks all of the major gestures that the iPhone and Pre support and the UI/device is much, much slower.
Many PCs can run an impressive set of applications, but what we're looking for is the right combination of features and performance - the latter just isn't delivered by the G1. I do fully expect future versions to fix that however, I just don't believe the time is now. And I believe most of the reviews of the G1 echo my sentiments; the hardware doesn't do the software justice.
Take care,
Anand
cplusplus - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
Just as a quick reply, the only reason Android doesn't have multi-touch is because they were afraid they would get sued by Apple for having it. Everyone was. It's not big news/problem because since Palm has been in the PDA game much longer than Apple, they have patents that Apple are probably infringing, too. There are cooked roms out there that show that the G1's screen is fully capable of multi-touch. Now that Palm has shown that it can be implemented without being sued, I fully expect it to show up in the 2.0 version of Android.http://gizmodo.com/5150354/apple-stopped-multitouc...">http://gizmodo.com/5150354/apple-stoppe...-on-andr...
http://i.gizmodo.com/5146797/how-to-hack-android-f...">http://i.gizmodo.com/5146797/how-to-hac...itouch-w...
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-t...">http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-t...
Griswold - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link
"Even the individual buttons on the Pre don’t feel as good as those on the iPhone. The ringer and sleep switches both feel cheap."But does the ringer switch fall off as easily as the one on my iphone? Personally, I dont care if some parts feel or look cheap, as long as they arent cheap - like the ringer switch on the iphone.
joos2000 - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link
[quote] Pinch two fingers to zoom in, move them apart to zoom out.[/quote]Certainly it is the other way around?
aileen - Friday, July 3, 2009 - link
It is indeed a great resource to obtain information on this subject. Keep posting. Thanks.http://www.freshsmileclinic.co.uk/dental-implant-d...">http://www.freshsmileclinic.co.uk/dental-implant-d...
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Hrel - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link
no, why would it be??? That would make no sense at all.>>> <<< to zoom in. <<< >>> to zoom out. How does that NOT make sense?
carniver - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link
That doesn't make sense entirely. You enlarge the detail by zooming in, and you diminish the detail by zooming out.