Even if their nodes have been worse than TSMC's, they are only moderately behind. As long as they don't drop out of the race entirely like GlobalFoundries did, things are fine.
Exactly this. If you are a little behind, you compete on price which is no big deal. Somone has to be behind at any point. Ideally Samsung, TSMC and Samsung would start leapfrogging each other.
did you read the interview with Tom Caufield, explaining why they were pulling out? Paraphrasing here, he said that if you're not first in the foundry business, you might as well be last. If you have the money to design cutting edge chips, you can spend the extra money to go leading edge. AMD must have gotten a heads up before GF pulled out. If they were interested, why didn't they just bankroll 7nm development?
China started conquering Taiwan around 1683. If you mean the PRC government annexing the ROC government, I very much doubt it. Russia is getting sanctioned back to the stone age for trying to blitz into Donbas and Ukraine.
Russia is a much smaller market than China. Most companies can boycott it just fine. China is much, much larger. Way too much money involved for companies to give up because of commies doing atrocities
These comparisons of the new Samsung 3nm are against their old 5nm node. And that node wasn't great, it was basically competing against the older 7nm/8nm node from TSMC. So we don't know how this really compares to the competition.
With these "huge" advances on their New 3nm Samsung node, keen to see how it compares to the likes of the current TSMC 4nm/5nm. If they can beat them overall (price, area, performance, efficiency) then I'll be impressed. But I am not impressed by mere changing of the number/name of the node. With delays from TSMC for their 3nm, maybe Samsung can catch up to them or even leap-frog them. Heck it is totally possible that TSMC's delayed-3nm is inferior to Samsung's early-3nm. Let's hope it is the latter, so competition really heats up!
Intel's roadmaps are as trustworthy as an anti-mask flat earther - who knows what they'll do next, defend drunk driving? Even if they do end up matching TSMC in transistor density, they will have to do so by using more expensive High-NA EUV - they'll be buying their way into technically "catching up" while TSMC happily makes a bucketload of money.
Just like Samsung is moving to GAA early because they can't compete with TSMC's FinFETs, which means Samsung is "catching up" by depressing their own margins and volume.
You have a point, but the big upside is they are moving to GAA. That is a huge change process wise. TSMC's first GAA node 2nm also won't have backside power delivery so it won't be a huge jump either. I think it's very wise to not get too aggressive on the first GAA nodes for all of the companies.
Sounds like is basically equivalent to Intel's "internal node" before their 20A process. Or equivalent to what TSMC terms "risk production".
If you aren't making it available to third parties, is it really even an official foundry node? There's a lot of room for puffed up claims where they say they are ahead of everyone else without any actual products showing up until Galaxy S23 next spring (for the Exynos models)
What does Samsung's internal semiconductor division make aside from Exynos and DRAM/NAND that could use this process before then?
If it walks like risk production and talks like risk production...
I should have clarified, I mentioned DRAM/NAND because that's mostly what Samsung makes aside from Exynos, but only Exynos could use this new process. I know DRAM/NAND are on a totally different process train.
Maybe Intel should have it's CPU Design & Chip manufacturing seperated into two seperate businesses with the Chip manufacturing side open to all companies.
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Wereweeb - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Hoping Samsung can get their shit together so someone can compete with TSMC.nandnandnand - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Even if their nodes have been worse than TSMC's, they are only moderately behind. As long as they don't drop out of the race entirely like GlobalFoundries did, things are fine.FreckledTrout - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Exactly this. If you are a little behind, you compete on price which is no big deal. Somone has to be behind at any point. Ideally Samsung, TSMC and Samsung would start leapfrogging each other.dersteffeneilers - Sunday, July 31, 2022 - link
did you read the interview with Tom Caufield, explaining why they were pulling out? Paraphrasing here, he said that if you're not first in the foundry business, you might as well be last. If you have the money to design cutting edge chips, you can spend the extra money to go leading edge. AMD must have gotten a heads up before GF pulled out. If they were interested, why didn't they just bankroll 7nm development?sharath.naik - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
This is especially needed given Taiwan will be annexed by china any time now.shabby - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Uncle Joe won't let that happen 😂Wereweeb - Friday, July 1, 2022 - link
China started conquering Taiwan around 1683. If you mean the PRC government annexing the ROC government, I very much doubt it. Russia is getting sanctioned back to the stone age for trying to blitz into Donbas and Ukraine.Vitor - Friday, July 1, 2022 - link
Russia is a much smaller market than China. Most companies can boycott it just fine. China is much, much larger. Way too much money involved for companies to give up because of commies doing atrocitiesKhanan - Monday, July 4, 2022 - link
Source or just talking nonsense?andychow - Friday, July 29, 2022 - link
Have you been living under a rock?Kamen Rider Blade - Thursday, July 14, 2022 - link
China will start WW3 if they try to do that.And the US vs China will be a Hot Conflict.
Kangal - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
These comparisons of the new Samsung 3nm are against their old 5nm node. And that node wasn't great, it was basically competing against the older 7nm/8nm node from TSMC. So we don't know how this really compares to the competition.With these "huge" advances on their New 3nm Samsung node, keen to see how it compares to the likes of the current TSMC 4nm/5nm. If they can beat them overall (price, area, performance, efficiency) then I'll be impressed. But I am not impressed by mere changing of the number/name of the node. With delays from TSMC for their 3nm, maybe Samsung can catch up to them or even leap-frog them. Heck it is totally possible that TSMC's delayed-3nm is inferior to Samsung's early-3nm. Let's hope it is the latter, so competition really heats up!
ballsystemlord - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
So, you want Intel to win then... ;)You did say you wished TSMC to hit a snag and Samsung to cache up. That means Intel pulls ahead.
Wereweeb - Friday, July 1, 2022 - link
Intel's roadmaps are as trustworthy as an anti-mask flat earther - who knows what they'll do next, defend drunk driving? Even if they do end up matching TSMC in transistor density, they will have to do so by using more expensive High-NA EUV - they'll be buying their way into technically "catching up" while TSMC happily makes a bucketload of money.Just like Samsung is moving to GAA early because they can't compete with TSMC's FinFETs, which means Samsung is "catching up" by depressing their own margins and volume.
FreckledTrout - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
You have a point, but the big upside is they are moving to GAA. That is a huge change process wise. TSMC's first GAA node 2nm also won't have backside power delivery so it won't be a huge jump either. I think it's very wise to not get too aggressive on the first GAA nodes for all of the companies.Doug_S - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Sounds like is basically equivalent to Intel's "internal node" before their 20A process. Or equivalent to what TSMC terms "risk production".If you aren't making it available to third parties, is it really even an official foundry node? There's a lot of room for puffed up claims where they say they are ahead of everyone else without any actual products showing up until Galaxy S23 next spring (for the Exynos models)
What does Samsung's internal semiconductor division make aside from Exynos and DRAM/NAND that could use this process before then?
If it walks like risk production and talks like risk production...
Doug_S - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
I should have clarified, I mentioned DRAM/NAND because that's mostly what Samsung makes aside from Exynos, but only Exynos could use this new process. I know DRAM/NAND are on a totally different process train.Kamen Rider Blade - Thursday, July 14, 2022 - link
Maybe Intel should have it's CPU Design & Chip manufacturing seperated into two seperate businesses with the Chip manufacturing side open to all companies.isofilm - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
I don't know which is more pathetic:Samsung's one false start after another, which has resulted in ZERO top 20 customers, or
The stooges holding BLANK wafers (perhaps a sign of what's to come)
donalderic858 - Tuesday, July 26, 2022 - link
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