Maximum BS is what Intel is now. Since they are so big, they keep boasting that OEM partnerships. About the real stuff like x86 ? None, say "Breakthrough in x86" what a fcking pathetic joke. I bet it's going to be massacred by Zen 4. Small phone garbage cores in a Desktop LGA socket is not just desperate but shameless on top it's an ARM type concept, ran out of ideas and shoving this.
Nothing on Optane either, now why would they even push for high quality high performance vision they laid years back, axe all of it for more Platform proprietary garbage for Enterprise market. For Consumer market Optane's latest drive has QLC garbage. I bet they want PLC or whatever crap to shove onto the BGA OEM deals more.
Sapphire Rapids is new Golden Cove whatever bs cove they are nowadays, it definitely will not have the Big Little I'm guessing. And that is where Intel's first Xeon which is actually competitive will come after 2 Iterations of EPYC, Rome and Milan's steamrolling. If they fail there also then there's no coming back for Intel. Because 5nm EPYC will be already in supply and 3nm EPYC Zen 5 will be sampled.
A hardware leader now crumbling inside out, to make matters worse those VP and CRO hires to do their Social bidding PR drama.
Too bad Zen 4 is far away. It is a 2023 volume thing, well in line with Intel 7nm arrival. Bet Intel have a better core than Golden by that time. For now Intel will be ahead for one full year.....waiting a real 5nm volume from TSMC (no Zen 4 without it). Funny enough when Zen 4 will be out in volume, Intel and AMD will are in process parity. The good days are ending for someone.
Zen 4 2022 already confirmed from news or of Taipei.
also don't bet on Intel 7nm in 2023. there's a reason Injury tried to book TSMC 3nm - Intel is projected to have only 20 EUV machines by 2023, well below the 50+ they will need to ramp 7nm.
From what I've read, it doesn't actually do "matrix operations". It's really just a 2D convolution engine for int8 and bfloat16.
And what JayNor said was " AMD just catching up with avx512", meaning they'll be one step behind, since Intel will already be on AMX. If English isn't your native language, I can see how you might've missed that nuance.
Now, we don't yet know which subsets of AVX512 AMD will implement, so they might not be at parity.
And AMX is still a wildcard, in terms of how popular it'll actually be. It feels to me like more stuff that doesn't belong in a CPU, but that Intel is adding in a frantic attempt to stay relevant. At the least, it'll give them a couple standout benchmark results that can help skew the mean. However, it does seem to come at a high cost, in terms of context size and probably die area.
Yup. GPUs or a growing crop of AI accelerators (including some Intel recently acquired) will certainly be more efficient and quite likely still faster.
That user also posts on another forum where I've seen posts that are more technical. If you ask deep questions about Intel's tech, JayNor can provide useful answers (as long as it's published in a datasheet, manual, or otherwise public knowledge).
and some still show he is biased towards intel, mostly anti amd, and still reads like he was briefed by intels pr department. i think some have asked him where he gets his info from, and post links for some of it, and i dont recall if he does when asked. as some really do seem a little far fetched, but, meh
I share your disappointment in Optane fizzling. The performance numbers for the DC P5800X look pretty amazing. I hoped I could have such a SSD for myself, by now.
I wish they'd be more transparent about why they can't seem to get the volumes up or the prices down, but I assume it has to do with density not scaling as they'd expected. I believe the latest generation of Optane storage is only like 4 layers, yet it's having to compete against 3D NAND with like 192 layers.
As for the rest, I think you should just lighten up. There's nothing new, here. This was always going to be a presentation about posturing and fluff. Yes, Intel is in a bad spot, but they're not going to be all doom and gloom about it.
We should just be glad that there are alternatives, and that Tiger Lake seems like real progress. Next to watch will be how Sapphire Rapids turns out, as you rightly state.
> Intel hasn't changed their plans for Optane on server.
Thanks for the update. To be clear, I wasn't talking about their server plans. I'm merely disappointed that Optane seems to be disappearing from their consumer SSDs (except as a small cache/buffer).
Did they address disposal of PCs, at all? It's listed on the slide as one of their industry's biggest problems, but then all that's mentioned is a laptop made from recycled materials that probably weren't part of any tech product.
In one thing Intel is right, without volume you are out of the serious games. Ask to AMD, they are happy of Sony engagement...... Not enough unfortunately, they run out of silicon. No silicon no chances against Intel.
I don't believe the wafers used for PS5 are from the same allocation as AMD's own products. If AMD didn't take Sony's business, Sony would've gone elsewhere and so they'd still be competing for TSMC's production capacity.
If you can prove me wrong, please do. Otherwise, I will assume it's just more gnashing of teeth by Intel fanboys.
TSMC demand/supply imbalance is running at 250% at the moment according to an industry analyst I spoke to recently and will still be over 150% in a years time. If you haven't booked it, you aint getting it....
Lisa Su also comment that the problem isn't in die manufacturing, but shortage in substrate. they don't have enough material to package Zen die on AM4 platform.
Yes Dr. Cutress, you are right, the CEO IS wearing something funky, but I don't care. Even sport coat manufacturers don't bother listing it in MegaThreads/square inch (MT/s).........
they ship volume and lots of "bad" products.... resulting in dropped pricing to be able to keep selling, in the end demand will continue to drop because even reduced pricing is not enough to keep sales momentum and you are just stuck with volume (remember buldozer era??)
lucky for Intel the brand name is still high and lots of partners that can be "bought" with additional R&D funding
To be fair, I wouldn't call Tiger Lake a bad product. It definitely keeps Intel in the game, but still doesn't really regain their performance leadership.
Now, Rocket Lake and Ice Lake are non-competitive. The sooner Intel gets past them, the better.
Rocket Lake would have been very competitive against Zen 2--the i7-10700K pretty convincingly beats the Ryzen 3800XT, for example--but it came to market too late.
I think it's mainly just a node issue. if RKL were on 10nm as that arch is supposed to be, it might have been ok against Zen 3.
I still suspect Intel's 10nm has issues, though, even though they are now shipping in volume. reviews for TGL and Ice Lake show is not as efficient as TSMC 7nm which means they likely couldn't offer competing solutions to AMD (12-16 cores) within the desktop power budget. I feel that may have been the primary design decision behind ADL.
> if RKL were on 10nm as that arch is supposed to be, it might have been ok against Zen 3.
As soon as the new NUC Exteme starts shipping, we'll be able to run that experiment. Tiger Lake-H is the chip that Rocket Lake wanted to be, and that's what's in it. As long as its cooling is adequate, we'll get a glimpse of what might have been.
Lots of CEO safe talk here. Seems intel is buying into the whole "dumb terminal in every house" version of manufacturing. Intel no longer is providing consumers with the tools to do serious computing. If you are only concerned with selling products to cloud providers, that is a safe strategy.
As an Intel stock holder and fan, I will confess to having purchased a 5950X for my next build. Sad.
Has anyone noticed none of the Intel executives are of Chinese, Korean or other East Asian ethnic? However look at everyone else in the chip industry, it is hard to find a company without one: AMD, Xilinx, Nvidia, Broadcom, Qualcomm, not to mention Samsung TSMC UMC Tokyo Electronics ...
Maybe there's a bit of the "old boys club" going on, but I doubt it's nefarious.
According to their website, Asian is their second-largest demographic, at 37.6%. I don't know how geographically dispersed that is, but I suspect it over-represents the population where their offices and factories are located. If any group is underrepresented it's probably African American, at just 4.9%. Also, women are just 26.3% of their workforce.
If they had a breakdown by age, you'd probably also see a younger-skewing workforce than the tech industry, at large. Intel frequently purges employees who hang around too long without moving up the ranks.
Anyway, here's the full executive leadership team:
You know, I commend them for being so transparent about their numbers; but also can't help seeing that page as particularly good for their image. Nowadays, if one wants to be good in the public's books, just plaster that sort of talk all over one's communications.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
48 Comments
Back to Article
Machinus - Sunday, May 30, 2021 - link
Looking forward to the next refresh of 14nm.mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Hilarious, but I'm not aware of any such product, on their roadmaps.You're going to have to update that meme to "Intel stuck on 10 nm".
Bagheera - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
aren't they technically since 2016... since that's when it was supposed to come out...https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tweaktown.com/new...
YB1064 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
What a bunch of baloney. Why does Anandtech cover this BS?Silver5urfer - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Maximum BS is what Intel is now. Since they are so big, they keep boasting that OEM partnerships. About the real stuff like x86 ? None, say "Breakthrough in x86" what a fcking pathetic joke. I bet it's going to be massacred by Zen 4. Small phone garbage cores in a Desktop LGA socket is not just desperate but shameless on top it's an ARM type concept, ran out of ideas and shoving this.Nothing on Optane either, now why would they even push for high quality high performance vision they laid years back, axe all of it for more Platform proprietary garbage for Enterprise market. For Consumer market Optane's latest drive has QLC garbage. I bet they want PLC or whatever crap to shove onto the BGA OEM deals more.
Sapphire Rapids is new Golden Cove whatever bs cove they are nowadays, it definitely will not have the Big Little I'm guessing. And that is where Intel's first Xeon which is actually competitive will come after 2 Iterations of EPYC, Rome and Milan's steamrolling. If they fail there also then there's no coming back for Intel. Because 5nm EPYC will be already in supply and 3nm EPYC Zen 5 will be sampled.
A hardware leader now crumbling inside out, to make matters worse those VP and CRO hires to do their Social bidding PR drama.
Gondalf - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Too bad Zen 4 is far away. It is a 2023 volume thing, well in line with Intel 7nm arrival.Bet Intel have a better core than Golden by that time.
For now Intel will be ahead for one full year.....waiting a real 5nm volume from TSMC (no Zen 4 without it).
Funny enough when Zen 4 will be out in volume, Intel and AMD will are in process parity.
The good days are ending for someone.
shabby - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
🤣🤣🤣mdriftmeyer - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Zen 4 is early 2022 at the latest.Bagheera - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Zen 4 2022 already confirmed from news or of Taipei.also don't bet on Intel 7nm in 2023. there's a reason Injury tried to book TSMC 3nm - Intel is projected to have only 20 EUV machines by 2023, well below the 50+ they will need to ramp 7nm.
JayNor - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Intel adding amx tiled matrix operations in bfloat16 on Sapphire Rapids ... AMD just catching up with avx512 next year on zen4 server chips.Intel adding cxl ... revolutionary solution for accelerator biased coherency. Nowhere on AMD roadmap.
Gondalf - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
"matrix operations in bfloat16" is not AVX512.mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
From what I've read, it doesn't actually do "matrix operations". It's really just a 2D convolution engine for int8 and bfloat16.And what JayNor said was " AMD just catching up with avx512", meaning they'll be one step behind, since Intel will already be on AMX. If English isn't your native language, I can see how you might've missed that nuance.
Now, we don't yet know which subsets of AVX512 AMD will implement, so they might not be at parity.
And AMX is still a wildcard, in terms of how popular it'll actually be. It feels to me like more stuff that doesn't belong in a CPU, but that Intel is adding in a frantic attempt to stay relevant. At the least, it'll give them a couple standout benchmark results that can help skew the mean. However, it does seem to come at a high cost, in terms of context size and probably die area.
Bagheera - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
trying to stay relevant for sure. let GPU handle SIMD workloads.mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Yup. GPUs or a growing crop of AI accelerators (including some Intel recently acquired) will certainly be more efficient and quite likely still faster.JayNor - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
bf16 was specified by FB for their Zion platform.JayNor - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Intel is also doing avx512 bfloat16 operations in Sapphire Rapids ... same as was already done on Cooper Lake.https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/x86/avx512_bf16
Bagheera - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
you must be Part!ck from Videocardz/WCCFTech....Qasar - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
nope, jaynor is just an intel shill.mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
FWIW, JayNor seems to know a lot about Intel products. I'd say more informative and less sensational than a typical "shill".Qasar - Sunday, June 6, 2021 - link
not really, most of his posts come across as coming from intels PR departmentmode_13h - Sunday, June 6, 2021 - link
That user also posts on another forum where I've seen posts that are more technical. If you ask deep questions about Intel's tech, JayNor can provide useful answers (as long as it's published in a datasheet, manual, or otherwise public knowledge).Qasar - Sunday, June 6, 2021 - link
and some still show he is biased towards intel, mostly anti amd, and still reads like he was briefed by intels pr department.i think some have asked him where he gets his info from, and post links for some of it, and i dont recall if he does when asked. as some really do seem a little far fetched, but, meh
rocky12345 - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Patrick is that you???mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I share your disappointment in Optane fizzling. The performance numbers for the DC P5800X look pretty amazing. I hoped I could have such a SSD for myself, by now.I wish they'd be more transparent about why they can't seem to get the volumes up or the prices down, but I assume it has to do with density not scaling as they'd expected. I believe the latest generation of Optane storage is only like 4 layers, yet it's having to compete against 3D NAND with like 192 layers.
As for the rest, I think you should just lighten up. There's nothing new, here. This was always going to be a presentation about posturing and fluff. Yes, Intel is in a bad spot, but they're not going to be all doom and gloom about it.
We should just be glad that there are alternatives, and that Tiger Lake seems like real progress. Next to watch will be how Sapphire Rapids turns out, as you rightly state.
JayNor - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Intel hasn't changed their plans for Optane on server. Gen3 support comes with Sapphire Rapids.They apparently plan to move Optane out of the memory controller and into CXL memory pools after that, as they implement cxl 2.x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OSKow9NM8
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> Intel hasn't changed their plans for Optane on server.Thanks for the update. To be clear, I wasn't talking about their server plans. I'm merely disappointed that Optane seems to be disappearing from their consumer SSDs (except as a small cache/buffer).
mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Did they address disposal of PCs, at all? It's listed on the slide as one of their industry's biggest problems, but then all that's mentioned is a laptop made from recycled materials that probably weren't part of any tech product.Gondalf - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
In one thing Intel is right, without volume you are out of the serious games.Ask to AMD, they are happy of Sony engagement...... Not enough unfortunately, they run out of silicon.
No silicon no chances against Intel.
mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I don't believe the wafers used for PS5 are from the same allocation as AMD's own products. If AMD didn't take Sony's business, Sony would've gone elsewhere and so they'd still be competing for TSMC's production capacity.If you can prove me wrong, please do. Otherwise, I will assume it's just more gnashing of teeth by Intel fanboys.
Bagheera - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I don't think it was TSMC capacity. I think AMD simply underestimated PC demand for 2020 - Covid + the strength of Zen 3 launch.keep in mind the capacity was already booked years before.
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> I don't think it was TSMC capacity.It is a contributing factor, due to how far one must book it in advance. The queue is normally months, not years.
> AMD simply underestimated PC demand for 2020 - Covid + the strength of Zen 3 launch.
Yes. And maybe they didn't expect Intel to be still lagging so badly.
Bagheera - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
you can definitely book capacity years in advance:https://www.pcgamer.com/tsmc-3nm-cpu-chip-manufact...
whether or not there's excess capacity you can book within a few months' notice USA anyone's guess. for a company like TSMC, probably not very often.
Speedfriend - Monday, June 7, 2021 - link
TSMC demand/supply imbalance is running at 250% at the moment according to an industry analyst I spoke to recently and will still be over 150% in a years time. If you haven't booked it, you aint getting it....Fulljack - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Lisa Su also comment that the problem isn't in die manufacturing, but shortage in substrate. they don't have enough material to package Zen die on AM4 platform.Fulljack - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Sony sold has sold 7.8 million of PS5 and Microsoft sold 4.75 million of Xbox Series X and S, which all products using AMD solution.as you said, no silicon no chance against AMD.
Brahman05 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Yes Dr. Cutress, you are right, the CEO IS wearing something funky, but I don't care. Even sport coat manufacturers don't bother listing it in MegaThreads/square inch (MT/s).........Too soon? :)
duploxxx - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
they ship volume and lots of "bad" products.... resulting in dropped pricing to be able to keep selling, in the end demand will continue to drop because even reduced pricing is not enough to keep sales momentum and you are just stuck with volume (remember buldozer era??)lucky for Intel the brand name is still high and lots of partners that can be "bought" with additional R&D funding
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
To be fair, I wouldn't call Tiger Lake a bad product. It definitely keeps Intel in the game, but still doesn't really regain their performance leadership.Now, Rocket Lake and Ice Lake are non-competitive. The sooner Intel gets past them, the better.
KAlmquist - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Rocket Lake would have been very competitive against Zen 2--the i7-10700K pretty convincingly beats the Ryzen 3800XT, for example--but it came to market too late.Bagheera - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
I think it's mainly just a node issue. if RKL were on 10nm as that arch is supposed to be, it might have been ok against Zen 3.I still suspect Intel's 10nm has issues, though, even though they are now shipping in volume. reviews for TGL and Ice Lake show is not as efficient as TSMC 7nm which means they likely couldn't offer competing solutions to AMD (12-16 cores) within the desktop power budget. I feel that may have been the primary design decision behind ADL.
mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
> if RKL were on 10nm as that arch is supposed to be, it might have been ok against Zen 3.As soon as the new NUC Exteme starts shipping, we'll be able to run that experiment. Tiger Lake-H is the chip that Rocket Lake wanted to be, and that's what's in it. As long as its cooling is adequate, we'll get a glimpse of what might have been.
JayNor - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
looks like Intel performing well on transcoding and storage benchmarks... maybe due to avx512 and pcie4 or Thunderbolt.https://www.anandtech.com/show/16715/the-asus-rog-...
also looks like Intel's integrated wifi6/6e implementation is solid.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16715/the-asus-rog-...
Frank_M - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Lots of CEO safe talk here. Seems intel is buying into the whole "dumb terminal in every house" version of manufacturing. Intel no longer is providing consumers with the tools to do serious computing. If you are only concerned with selling products to cloud providers, that is a safe strategy.As an Intel stock holder and fan, I will confess to having purchased a 5950X for my next build. Sad.
dataist - Saturday, June 5, 2021 - link
Has anyone noticed none of the Intel executives are of Chinese, Korean or other East Asian ethnic? However look at everyone else in the chip industry, it is hard to find a company without one: AMD, Xilinx, Nvidia, Broadcom, Qualcomm, not to mention Samsung TSMC UMC Tokyo Electronics ...mode_13h - Sunday, June 6, 2021 - link
Maybe there's a bit of the "old boys club" going on, but I doubt it's nefarious.According to their website, Asian is their second-largest demographic, at 37.6%. I don't know how geographically dispersed that is, but I suspect it over-represents the population where their offices and factories are located. If any group is underrepresented it's probably African American, at just 4.9%. Also, women are just 26.3% of their workforce.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/diversity/...
If they had a breakdown by age, you'd probably also see a younger-skewing workforce than the tech industry, at large. Intel frequently purges employees who hang around too long without moving up the ranks.
Anyway, here's the full executive leadership team:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/e...
GeoffreyA - Thursday, June 10, 2021 - link
You know, I commend them for being so transparent about their numbers; but also can't help seeing that page as particularly good for their image. Nowadays, if one wants to be good in the public's books, just plaster that sort of talk all over one's communications.aliaservice - Friday, June 18, 2021 - link
sex call girls fucking https://bidauction.in/ pussy, nudity adult ak47, desi kattamode_13h - Saturday, June 19, 2021 - link
Wow. How bad does the spam filter have to be to let *that* through??