If I absolutely needed a laptop today I'd probably pick up a used one so I could wait for the Ice Lake CPUs from Intel this fall. It would be a shame to buy such nice hardware only to find yourself two significant generations behind within 6 months.
I hope you're right. Intel has been caught sleeping, and the improvements since SkyLake have been, frankly, anecdotal. It seems that AMD, by making a small core, designed from the ground up to work in tandem with other cores, has a much more effective/scalable architecture. So a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from AMD, while providing slightly lower IPC, today, is much more effective than a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from Intel. Let's see if ICL brings real benefits. The 10nm node should help a lot.
"So a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from AMD, while providing slightly lower IPC, today, is much more effective than a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from Intel."
I thought AMD currently has lower IPC + lower clock speeds so how exactly are they more effective? With Ryzen3/Zen 2 due in the summer this may change but for now AMDs advantage is more cores per buck.
I'm assuming he meant in terms of price/core, but that's just a guess.
Doesn't AMD have a big problem with power consumption in mobile CPUs though? I've read that the AMD laptops out now suffer from big power drain even if performance wise they're equivalent or batter than the Intel chips at the same price range.
Supposedly in idle only, but I do not really see that on my Matebook. Then again, I do not let it sit idling for hours on battery since it boots so quickly that there is no reason for that.
In normal use (web / video), the battery indicator does not move much at all.
What many forget is that even with Intel based laptops, there are sometimes big differences between models or manufacturer, depending on the battery size and how well they configured their laptop. The ones that aren't well done are not the ones you usually see in comparison tests though (as there are more models to pick from vs. AMD based ones).
Their big problem was definitely low power states management on the 2X00u series of chips. The 3x00 series chips that are now hitting the market make up a lot of ground in that regard, both with the chips themselves and better bios/uefi implementations by the vendors that are building the systems. Add in the fact that AMD has finally decided to take the lead on providing a stable, performant drivers for the video section of the chips, and you can largely ignore the abysmal efforts of the vendors themselves to provide quality, updated drivers themselves.
For the money, some of the low end AMD 2x00u series laptops gave you MUCH more bang for your buck than the equivalent intel based offerings. The few limitations that people who purchased them did come across could be overcome through software tools by those that it actually mattered to (power and performance management profiles could be tweaked by certain software tools that allowed systems to maintain higher boost states longer and better manage their thermals).
I can't wait to see some of the more thorough write-ups on the latest 3x00h series laptops that are fast enough in both core performance and graphics performance to go up against comparable intel based machines that also include an Nvidia MX1xx series dGPU with an i5. They should technically be less expensive, offer similar performance and be more power friendly when pushed to their limits. This isn't to say that they won't have their flaws, just that, dollar for dollar, on the low end, you'll get more with the AMD system.
IPC includes the whole chip performance so they are still behind. Zen currently makes sense to me if you want 8 or more cores so hopefully with Zen 2 they will compete from 4 cores upwards.
IPC refers to the perf of a single core usually. Generally has an advantage of about 8-10%. That advantage disapears when using SMT/HT. AMD has the more efficient design so it makes up for that 10% deficit. Throw in multiple core and it starts to win. TBS even now a lot of software is optimized still for Intel but thats changing rapidly. Intel still has a clockspeed advantage. Where as Zen has a pretty hard wall @4.3, Intel can get on down the road a good bit faster. Especially with 4 core chips. I dont think that advantage will last too much longer. Between the mitigations from ME/SPec, and lack of new architecture, Intel seem to be pushing cores over HT now to keep its advantage short term. AMD put out a competitive chip, Intel has yet to fire back like it did with Core against Athlon XPs(Those were the days!) Theyre just stretching their long in the tooth Core. Something is waiting in the wings though.
From what I've seen a 6C/12T Intel beats a similar spec AMD easily. I've read that AMD's HT gives a bigger boost than Intel's but that still isn't enough for it to catch up due to it being too far behind in other areas. So it's about as meaningful in the real world as a purely synthetic benchmark. That should change soon with Zen 2 so there will be no need to live the life of a fantasist then.
True no need to fanasize. Just look at Anands bench. Intel has 2 8 series 6C/8T. One cost 100$ more and has a 100mhz base clock bump over the 2k series Zen. Boost clock is also higher. They trade blows but the 2k series zen wins more than it loses. Then look at the 8086 which is double the price and for double the price it beats the 2k series Zen. Fair enough. Looking at the benchmarks, the key gake away is as I said earlier, Intel has the speed still and its enoigh to offset the efficiency gains of Zen's SMT. Unless Intel is holding back soemthing good, the 3rd series Zen will take the Rchitecture from trading blows and winning some to handing out L's.
In the other hand, if I wait for half a year and found that the CPU I bought is not much better comparing to the ones available 6 months before, I'd be very disappointed.
That is something happened to me before.
That said, I don't think this will be the case for Ice Lake CPUs.
I replaced a MacBook with this machine. The MacOS was having issues with backups and reliable / persistent internal network connections, so this purchase is an experiment. So far, so good. My only complaint is the trackpad - the one on the MacBook was far superior.
A bit of a nitpick, but I think this statement in the first page isn't 100% correct: "...16 GB, which happens to be the maximum supported by Intel’s current U-series processors." This limitation probably only applies to DDR3, as ark.intel.com advertises a maximum of 32GB and DDR4 support for these models too.
To be clear, that passage is solely talking about LPDDR3. Which is why it's mentioned as such in the full sentence.
"models ship with a minimum of 8 GB of LPDDR3, with high-end and upgraded models increasing that to 16 GB, which happens to be the maximum supported by Intel’s current U-series processors."
Should mention nothing is serviceable so you better buy the extended and accidental damage warranty and plan on that "accident" when the battery degrades to 60% in true surface style.
The article says "Model Tested: Core i7-8650U 8GB 256GB $1299", however further down under pricing, you see: "256 GB Intel Core i7 with 8GB of RAM: $1599"
Microsoft wants to ensure you can't install Linux on it. The entire surface line is garbage for development, meanwhile windows had been bleeding developers by the thousands. The surface dock staunches that bleed by ensuring 0 compatibility.
Why? Ubuntu 18 works like a charm in my SP3. And being a software developer I can tell you that Surface Pro is really great for that. The only thing I don't like in my SP is Windows which I still can't remove because I use some windows only applications.
No one in the real world cares about USB-C and even less about TB. The single USB-A port is better than a single USB-C port, for now. The Connect port is brilliant and it's good that it's a mainstay on the Surface line.
I still haven't find a use for a USB-C. All my peripherals are type A. But no matter what port you have in your device you will find yourself buying a usb hub with several USB-A ports to expand that single USB Type A/C port.
USB-C is required for universal docking. Thunderbolt is a great upgrade, that enhances dock reliability and performance in my experience. The Connect Port is a joke, and the ONLY way such a proprietary port would be deemed acceptable is if it fixed standard port flaws, by being far more capable, or more reliable. The Surface Dock is neither of these things, and is just as reliable as a USB-C dock (aka, reliable enough for most but not 100% reliable), but not as reliable as Thunderbolt. Microsoft needs to get with the program ASAP and adopt USB-C at a minimum, and preferably Thunderbolt on at least some of their models. Strike 1.
Then again, Microsoft continues to use garbage Wifi chipsets on ethernet-less systems, so the WiFi needs to be the best in the market if they're playing in the premium space. Strike 2.
Finally, systems should be at least mildly serviceable, or otherwise boast "worlds thinnest/lightest/?". Microsoft doesn't boast these things, so 3 strikes... you're out.
Honestly, if they would fix one of these things, I'd consider it. No machine is 100% perfect. But this "unholy trinity" will prevent me from considering any of their machines, short of a surface book 2 (since it has USB-C), however my experience with a detachable display is that I basically never use the feature (1 day a year maybe), so I'd rather have a traditional hinge. So even the surface book 2 isn't much of a contender, but would at least warrant consideration.
TB is also proprietary; Intel only, locks AMD out. Proliferation of TB could damage AMD's mobile ambitions and no one wants Intel only notebooks. Also DMA vulnerability has been demonstrated already(Thunderclap) so TB has that against it as well.
I'm not against USB-C, USB-C is the future USB connection, however, on single port notebooks(like the Macbook), USB-A is better than USB-C, for now. Marrying TB with USB-C was a mistake and has damaged adoption of both.
On serviceability I agree on all counts but that's now what I argued.
I believe in USB-C as the next USB standard, but for now, USB-C is not as useful as USB-A.
Our whole department is converting to Dell laptops with USB-C docks.
Having said that I find the experience with the work USB-C dock and my Surface dock at home to be comparable, and the Surface drivers to be much more stable. Whatever Dell is doing makes the docking/undocking experience a real PITA. I’ve updated everything but it is still flaky.
Actually most people do care that work at a desk. The Microsoft implementation is limited to their dock which if you look, doesn't work. Thunderbolt is far superior and allows for multiple monitors, Ethernet, multiple USB ports including USB-C, SD card reader, and charging. all with one cable. It works really well. The only reason are company didn't go with Surface laptops, was this limitation.
"The Surface Laptop 2 with its Core i7 is more or less in-line with the rest of the Core i7 models, where you’d expect it to be."
The Surface Laptop 2 i7-8650U has 5% higher CPU boost than the Zenbook 3's i7-8550U, but has a 20% slower Google Octane score, 23% worse Mozilla Kraken score, and 10% lower WebXPRT 2015 score.
These are big gaps--that's the performance leap between 2-3 Intel CPU generations. What's the discrepancy here?
The Lenovo C930 has a longer PL2 (i.e., Tau) vs the Laptop 2: is that true for the Zenbook 3, too? Its review says its PL2 is 29W, but no Tau time is given.
So the PL2 is far lower, 50% less than the Zenbook 3:
>In this case, Microsoft seems to have set the PL2 level to about 20 Watts.
It's weird it does so well in Cinebench R15 Single-Threaded, but flops on its face on the web scripting benchmarks. Seemingly, the web benchmarks are more realistic for this kind of light laptop and so...it seems farther away from most other i7's, then, right?
If only they would release "naked" option... without cloth deck.
I just can't make a peace with cloth hard-glued to metal body. I like the feel of metal, and it is much easier to clean and maintain. I am fully aware this is my peculiarity - I am not big fan of Dell XPS carbon fibre deck, either (demo machines in the shops look very untidy and fingerprint frenzy)...
I don't mind cloth On Surface Pro. It can be easily replaced. I seem to have paranoia of damaging this cloth accidentally - spill or sharp object - and having to live with it for the rest of machine's life. Scratch on metal surface feels better than teared cloth. And metal does not stain as much as cloth.
No stain whatsoever on my keyboard deck (5 months of use), but I must admit, having this paranoia on whether my hand is clean enough to touch my notebook isn't too much fun. It's not that I often touch my previous laptops with a dirty hand, but I didn't feel the constant paranoia of it before.
My original Surface laptop shows no signs of any staining, scratches, or anything else and I use it daily. After using it for so long, metal feels odd and uncomfortable. The slight cushion that the surface has makes it very comfortable to wrest your palms on for long periods of time.
Seriously. What the hell kind of computer only has ONE USB por- oh, you meant that it is a compatible port instead of needing an additional adapter to connect to anything you want to use it with.
These are still utterly unserviceable, utterly impossible to upgrade, and have the terrible combination of very high price and one of the worst and shortest warranties legally permitted.
Watch a video of someone trying to repair one and then ask yourself why you'd support idiocy like that, at your own cost - Ifixit teardown of the Surface Laptop 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShF-PFQfAk
So basically, when in comparing with the matebook x pro, the surface notebook has a weaker GPU, lacking of thunderbolt port (for eGPU)/type-c USB, a worse display but costs $700 more? LOL PS, Huawei custom service is also better(at least in mainland China), e.g. you can buy a SSD with larger capacity and ask the custom service to replace it with the smaller one.
Love my Surface Laptop 2. It’s elegant, light, snappy, and it just works. Love the keyboard and Surface Connect and dock. Easily drives 32” 4K 60hz external displays at home & office, while also perfect on the go. I also prefer USB-A and the fabric deck. Tried Asus, Samsung, Dell XPS, HP - nothing else provided me an all around balanced, light, reliable, package. And I get amazing first party service from the Microsoft store. Glad this is in my inventory.
Only 1 typo, keep it up! "A few players, such as Huawei, have skirted the issue by adding a NVIDIA GeForce MX class GPU, but the added cost and complexity of that is not something that many manufacturers have gone." Should be "done" not "gone" at the end of the sentence. "A few players, such as Huawei, have skirted the issue by adding a NVIDIA GeForce MX class GPU, but the added cost and complexity of that is not something that many manufacturers have done."
It is very irresponsible for Anandtech to do a long review of a product like this and not mention that it is literally impossible to repair without destroying the device. ifixit gave the previous version of this laptop a repairability rating of 0 out of 10. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+...
A lot of people are going to buy this laptop and discover in a year or two that they are screwed when something fails. A key on the keyboard stops working, and you have to throw away the entire laptop because the keyboard can't be replaced. The motherboard dies and it is impossible to get your data off the machine, because the SSD is soldered to the motherboard. The battery will start to degrade after 500 full charge and discharge cycles, so you have to throw away the machine after a couple years of use or accept that you can only use it for an hour or two without being plugged in.
Every Anandtech review should mention the fixability of a device in its reviews, because that dramatically changes the longevity of a device. A laptop which costs $500 but lasts 2 years is more expensive per year than a laptop which costs $700 but lasts 4 years. Anandtech should be an advocate for consumers, not the advocate for the planned obsolescence being pushed by the hardware industry. At the very least Anandtech should forewarn consumers so that they know that they are getting planned obsolescence when they buy a Surface laptop.
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sorten - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
If I absolutely needed a laptop today I'd probably pick up a used one so I could wait for the Ice Lake CPUs from Intel this fall. It would be a shame to buy such nice hardware only to find yourself two significant generations behind within 6 months.yankeeDDL - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
I hope you're right. Intel has been caught sleeping, and the improvements since SkyLake have been, frankly, anecdotal. It seems that AMD, by making a small core, designed from the ground up to work in tandem with other cores, has a much more effective/scalable architecture. So a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from AMD, while providing slightly lower IPC, today, is much more effective than a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from Intel.Let's see if ICL brings real benefits. The 10nm node should help a lot.
smilingcrow - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
"So a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from AMD, while providing slightly lower IPC, today, is much more effective than a 4-core, 8-thread CPU from Intel."I thought AMD currently has lower IPC + lower clock speeds so how exactly are they more effective?
With Ryzen3/Zen 2 due in the summer this may change but for now AMDs advantage is more cores per buck.
niva - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
I'm assuming he meant in terms of price/core, but that's just a guess.Doesn't AMD have a big problem with power consumption in mobile CPUs though? I've read that the AMD laptops out now suffer from big power drain even if performance wise they're equivalent or batter than the Intel chips at the same price range.
Irata - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Supposedly in idle only, but I do not really see that on my Matebook. Then again, I do not let it sit idling for hours on battery since it boots so quickly that there is no reason for that.In normal use (web / video), the battery indicator does not move much at all.
What many forget is that even with Intel based laptops, there are sometimes big differences between models or manufacturer, depending on the battery size and how well they configured their laptop. The ones that aren't well done are not the ones you usually see in comparison tests though (as there are more models to pick from vs. AMD based ones).
lightningz71 - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
Their big problem was definitely low power states management on the 2X00u series of chips. The 3x00 series chips that are now hitting the market make up a lot of ground in that regard, both with the chips themselves and better bios/uefi implementations by the vendors that are building the systems. Add in the fact that AMD has finally decided to take the lead on providing a stable, performant drivers for the video section of the chips, and you can largely ignore the abysmal efforts of the vendors themselves to provide quality, updated drivers themselves.For the money, some of the low end AMD 2x00u series laptops gave you MUCH more bang for your buck than the equivalent intel based offerings. The few limitations that people who purchased them did come across could be overcome through software tools by those that it actually mattered to (power and performance management profiles could be tweaked by certain software tools that allowed systems to maintain higher boost states longer and better manage their thermals).
I can't wait to see some of the more thorough write-ups on the latest 3x00h series laptops that are fast enough in both core performance and graphics performance to go up against comparable intel based machines that also include an Nvidia MX1xx series dGPU with an i5. They should technically be less expensive, offer similar performance and be more power friendly when pushed to their limits. This isn't to say that they won't have their flaws, just that, dollar for dollar, on the low end, you'll get more with the AMD system.
Manch - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Superior SMTsmilingcrow - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
IPC includes the whole chip performance so they are still behind.Zen currently makes sense to me if you want 8 or more cores so hopefully with Zen 2 they will compete from 4 cores upwards.
Manch - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
IPC refers to the perf of a single core usually. Generally has an advantage of about 8-10%. That advantage disapears when using SMT/HT. AMD has the more efficient design so it makes up for that 10% deficit. Throw in multiple core and it starts to win. TBS even now a lot of software is optimized still for Intel but thats changing rapidly. Intel still has a clockspeed advantage. Where as Zen has a pretty hard wall @4.3, Intel can get on down the road a good bit faster. Especially with 4 core chips. I dont think that advantage will last too much longer. Between the mitigations from ME/SPec, and lack of new architecture, Intel seem to be pushing cores over HT now to keep its advantage short term. AMD put out a competitive chip, Intel has yet to fire back like it did with Core against Athlon XPs(Those were the days!) Theyre just stretching their long in the tooth Core. Something is waiting in the wings though.smilingcrow - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
From what I've seen a 6C/12T Intel beats a similar spec AMD easily.I've read that AMD's HT gives a bigger boost than Intel's but that still isn't enough for it to catch up due to it being too far behind in other areas.
So it's about as meaningful in the real world as a purely synthetic benchmark.
That should change soon with Zen 2 so there will be no need to live the life of a fantasist then.
Manch - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
True no need to fanasize. Just look at Anands bench. Intel has 2 8 series 6C/8T. One cost 100$ more and has a 100mhz base clock bump over the 2k series Zen. Boost clock is also higher. They trade blows but the 2k series zen wins more than it loses. Then look at the 8086 which is double the price and for double the price it beats the 2k series Zen. Fair enough. Looking at the benchmarks, the key gake away is as I said earlier, Intel has the speed still and its enoigh to offset the efficiency gains of Zen's SMT. Unless Intel is holding back soemthing good, the 3rd series Zen will take the Rchitecture from trading blows and winning some to handing out L's.eddman - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
What do you mean by "effective"?mr_tawan - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
In the other hand, if I wait for half a year and found that the CPU I bought is not much better comparing to the ones available 6 months before, I'd be very disappointed.That is something happened to me before.
That said, I don't think this will be the case for Ice Lake CPUs.
tipoo - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Hopefully that's what they were waiting on for a redesign with USB C/TB3maus92 - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
I replaced a MacBook with this machine. The MacOS was having issues with backups and reliable / persistent internal network connections, so this purchase is an experiment. So far, so good. My only complaint is the trackpad - the one on the MacBook was far superior.Eletriarnation - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
A bit of a nitpick, but I think this statement in the first page isn't 100% correct:"...16 GB, which happens to be the maximum supported by Intel’s current U-series processors."
This limitation probably only applies to DDR3, as ark.intel.com advertises a maximum of 32GB and DDR4 support for these models too.
Ryan Smith - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
To be clear, that passage is solely talking about LPDDR3. Which is why it's mentioned as such in the full sentence."models ship with a minimum of 8 GB of LPDDR3, with high-end and upgraded models increasing that to 16 GB, which happens to be the maximum supported by Intel’s current U-series processors."
Gunbuster - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
FIFY: "The Surface Laptop 2 is built out of glue"Should mention nothing is serviceable so you better buy the extended and accidental damage warranty and plan on that "accident" when the battery degrades to 60% in true surface style.
Irata - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Small correction:The article says "Model Tested: Core i7-8650U 8GB 256GB $1299", however further down under pricing, you see:
"256 GB Intel Core i7 with 8GB of RAM: $1599"
Ryan Smith - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
D'oh. Fixed. Thanks!AsParallel - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Microsoft wants to ensure you can't install Linux on it. The entire surface line is garbage for development, meanwhile windows had been bleeding developers by the thousands. The surface dock staunches that bleed by ensuring 0 compatibility.sbrown23 - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
But they do provide several different distros for Windows Services for Linux, easily downloadable from the Store.The Average - Saturday, March 30, 2019 - link
Why? Ubuntu 18 works like a charm in my SP3. And being a software developer I can tell you that Surface Pro is really great for that. The only thing I don't like in my SP is Windows which I still can't remove because I use some windows only applications.smilingcrow - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
And the majority of us just yawn at your Linux drooling.DigitalFreak - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Won't be buying one since they insist on sticking with their stupid Surface Connect Port instead of USB-C or Thunderbolt 3.id4andrei - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
No one in the real world cares about USB-C and even less about TB. The single USB-A port is better than a single USB-C port, for now. The Connect port is brilliant and it's good that it's a mainstay on the Surface line.DigitalFreak - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
"No one in the real world cares about USB-C"Keep telling yourself that, buddy.
The Average - Saturday, March 30, 2019 - link
I still haven't find a use for a USB-C. All my peripherals are type A. But no matter what port you have in your device you will find yourself buying a usb hub with several USB-A ports to expand that single USB Type A/C port.c4v3man - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
USB-C is required for universal docking. Thunderbolt is a great upgrade, that enhances dock reliability and performance in my experience. The Connect Port is a joke, and the ONLY way such a proprietary port would be deemed acceptable is if it fixed standard port flaws, by being far more capable, or more reliable. The Surface Dock is neither of these things, and is just as reliable as a USB-C dock (aka, reliable enough for most but not 100% reliable), but not as reliable as Thunderbolt. Microsoft needs to get with the program ASAP and adopt USB-C at a minimum, and preferably Thunderbolt on at least some of their models. Strike 1.Then again, Microsoft continues to use garbage Wifi chipsets on ethernet-less systems, so the WiFi needs to be the best in the market if they're playing in the premium space. Strike 2.
Finally, systems should be at least mildly serviceable, or otherwise boast "worlds thinnest/lightest/?". Microsoft doesn't boast these things, so 3 strikes... you're out.
Honestly, if they would fix one of these things, I'd consider it. No machine is 100% perfect. But this "unholy trinity" will prevent me from considering any of their machines, short of a surface book 2 (since it has USB-C), however my experience with a detachable display is that I basically never use the feature (1 day a year maybe), so I'd rather have a traditional hinge. So even the surface book 2 isn't much of a contender, but would at least warrant consideration.
Gunbuster - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
You had to remind everyone about the Avastar ;) Ugg the worst WiFi/Bluetooth in the business.This is rehash what? 30 now? Thirty products in a row Microsoft has used the most buggy and under performing WiFI chipset in the industry...
id4andrei - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
TB is also proprietary; Intel only, locks AMD out. Proliferation of TB could damage AMD's mobile ambitions and no one wants Intel only notebooks. Also DMA vulnerability has been demonstrated already(Thunderclap) so TB has that against it as well.I'm not against USB-C, USB-C is the future USB connection, however, on single port notebooks(like the Macbook), USB-A is better than USB-C, for now. Marrying TB with USB-C was a mistake and has damaged adoption of both.
On serviceability I agree on all counts but that's now what I argued.
I believe in USB-C as the next USB standard, but for now, USB-C is not as useful as USB-A.
akvadrako - Sunday, March 31, 2019 - link
TB is not proprietary; it's even called USB-4 now.flgt - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Our whole department is converting to Dell laptops with USB-C docks.Having said that I find the experience with the work USB-C dock and my Surface dock at home to be comparable, and the Surface drivers to be much more stable. Whatever Dell is doing makes the docking/undocking experience a real PITA. I’ve updated everything but it is still flaky.
Dug - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
Actually most people do care that work at a desk. The Microsoft implementation is limited to their dock which if you look, doesn't work. Thunderbolt is far superior and allows for multiple monitors, Ethernet, multiple USB ports including USB-C, SD card reader, and charging. all with one cable. It works really well. The only reason are company didn't go with Surface laptops, was this limitation.ikjadoon - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Quick correction on the first page:>12.3" 2256x1504 3:2 PixelSense
The Surface Laptop 2 has a 13.5" display, not 12.3".
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-laptop-2...
Ryan Smith - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Fixed. Thanks!ikjadoon - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
"The Surface Laptop 2 with its Core i7 is more or less in-line with the rest of the Core i7 models, where you’d expect it to be."The Surface Laptop 2 i7-8650U has 5% higher CPU boost than the Zenbook 3's i7-8550U, but has a 20% slower Google Octane score, 23% worse Mozilla Kraken score, and 10% lower WebXPRT 2015 score.
These are big gaps--that's the performance leap between 2-3 Intel CPU generations. What's the discrepancy here?
The Lenovo C930 has a longer PL2 (i.e., Tau) vs the Laptop 2: is that true for the Zenbook 3, too? Its review says its PL2 is 29W, but no Tau time is given.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12062/the-asus-zenb...
ikjadoon - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
So the PL2 is far lower, 50% less than the Zenbook 3:>In this case, Microsoft seems to have set the PL2 level to about 20 Watts.
It's weird it does so well in Cinebench R15 Single-Threaded, but flops on its face on the web scripting benchmarks. Seemingly, the web benchmarks are more realistic for this kind of light laptop and so...it seems farther away from most other i7's, then, right?
eva02langley - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
So much hope for having a 3750h version... I guess I need to look somewhere else again...Well, at least I didn't have to buy a MS product.
ilkhan - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
No type-C? I'll stick with my Book 1 for a little bit longer.nikon133 - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
If only they would release "naked" option... without cloth deck.I just can't make a peace with cloth hard-glued to metal body. I like the feel of metal, and it is much easier to clean and maintain. I am fully aware this is my peculiarity - I am not big fan of Dell XPS carbon fibre deck, either (demo machines in the shops look very untidy and fingerprint frenzy)...
I don't mind cloth On Surface Pro. It can be easily replaced. I seem to have paranoia of damaging this cloth accidentally - spill or sharp object - and having to live with it for the rest of machine's life. Scratch on metal surface feels better than teared cloth. And metal does not stain as much as cloth.
nicolaim - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
I agree, fabric is just a bad idea.Gunbuster - Sunday, March 31, 2019 - link
Not really a bad idea in itself. The bad idea is its glued on so you can never fix it...kenansadhu - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
No stain whatsoever on my keyboard deck (5 months of use), but I must admit, having this paranoia on whether my hand is clean enough to touch my notebook isn't too much fun. It's not that I often touch my previous laptops with a dirty hand, but I didn't feel the constant paranoia of it before.Dug - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
My original Surface laptop shows no signs of any staining, scratches, or anything else and I use it daily. After using it for so long, metal feels odd and uncomfortable. The slight cushion that the surface has makes it very comfortable to wrest your palms on for long periods of time.nicolaim - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
That USB port is a joke.Lord of the Bored - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Seriously. What the hell kind of computer only has ONE USB por- oh, you meant that it is a compatible port instead of needing an additional adapter to connect to anything you want to use it with.stephenbrooks - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
I wouldn't want to spend $2199 and end up with only 512GB of storage. For that price the laptop better do *everything*.shadowx360 - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
No USB-C = No buy. If it's incredibly annoying in 2019, imagine how annoying it's going to be in 2022 assuming you keep this laptop for a few years.wintermute000 - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Pretty much the #1 reason I didn't opt for this, otherwise it was top of my list.damianrobertjones - Saturday, March 30, 2019 - link
Buys a usb to usb c cable for a few pounds. Connects his phone and gopro. Carries on with life.Chrispy_ - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
These are still utterly unserviceable, utterly impossible to upgrade, and have the terrible combination of very high price and one of the worst and shortest warranties legally permitted.Watch a video of someone trying to repair one and then ask yourself why you'd support idiocy like that, at your own cost - Ifixit teardown of the Surface Laptop 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShF-PFQfAk
mrboonmee - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
how would you plug into 4K TV? DisplayPort isn't always perfect for this and not even DisplayPort? Lame. What are good alternatives?dickeywang - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
So basically, when in comparing with the matebook x pro, the surface notebook has a weaker GPU, lacking of thunderbolt port (for eGPU)/type-c USB, a worse display but costs $700 more?LOL
PS, Huawei custom service is also better(at least in mainland China), e.g. you can buy a SSD with larger capacity and ask the custom service to replace it with the smaller one.
peconi - Saturday, March 30, 2019 - link
And still no thunderbolt. Why?VictorBd - Saturday, March 30, 2019 - link
Love my Surface Laptop 2. It’s elegant, light, snappy, and it just works. Love the keyboard and Surface Connect and dock. Easily drives 32” 4K 60hz external displays at home & office, while also perfect on the go. I also prefer USB-A and the fabric deck. Tried Asus, Samsung, Dell XPS, HP - nothing else provided me an all around balanced, light, reliable, package. And I get amazing first party service from the Microsoft store. Glad this is in my inventory.InvidiousIgnoramus - Sunday, March 31, 2019 - link
The only laptop that is literally impossible to repair.ballsystemlord - Sunday, March 31, 2019 - link
Only 1 typo, keep it up!"A few players, such as Huawei, have skirted the issue by adding a NVIDIA GeForce MX class GPU, but the added cost and complexity of that is not something that many manufacturers have gone."
Should be "done" not "gone" at the end of the sentence.
"A few players, such as Huawei, have skirted the issue by adding a NVIDIA GeForce MX class GPU, but the added cost and complexity of that is not something that many manufacturers have done."
amosbatto - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
It is very irresponsible for Anandtech to do a long review of a product like this and not mention that it is literally impossible to repair without destroying the device. ifixit gave the previous version of this laptop a repairability rating of 0 out of 10.https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+...
A lot of people are going to buy this laptop and discover in a year or two that they are screwed when something fails. A key on the keyboard stops working, and you have to throw away the entire laptop because the keyboard can't be replaced. The motherboard dies and it is impossible to get your data off the machine, because the SSD is soldered to the motherboard. The battery will start to degrade after 500 full charge and discharge cycles, so you have to throw away the machine after a couple years of use or accept that you can only use it for an hour or two without being plugged in.
Every Anandtech review should mention the fixability of a device in its reviews, because that dramatically changes the longevity of a device. A laptop which costs $500 but lasts 2 years is more expensive per year than a laptop which costs $700 but lasts 4 years. Anandtech should be an advocate for consumers, not the advocate for the planned obsolescence being pushed by the hardware industry. At the very least Anandtech should forewarn consumers so that they know that they are getting planned obsolescence when they buy a Surface laptop.