That would be a deal breaker for me as well. Sometimes I can't get used to the two USB-3 ports on my Lenovo where I had three on my previous model. Thunderbolt-3 is a worthy powerful replacement, however, for one of them.
I can see that with my Samsung Tab Pro - but it had USB-c which I can understand - it appears Microsoft is acting like Apple less ports in ways to reduce possible damage inside.
It's been like this ever since the first Surface Pro (which I have in front of me). I think a big part of it is power draw - tablets, in particular, just can't power a large number of high-drawing USB components, unless they have a power brick and cord to match - and they want to avoid that.
Those who want to do so can buy high-priced docks, presumably with their own power supplies.
What I am still amazed with all these Surface including the Surface Go, and all the work on Windows 10 for ARM, they is absolutely NO surface with Windows 10 for ARM.
I believe Qualcomm paid Microsoft to create Windows 10 for ARM.
Also I am curious why there is no surface with KabyLake G.
Kaby Lake g doesn't really fit into any of the surface products. The pro and laptop are too thin to have all that heat and the point of the book is to have the gpu and cpu separated.
Maybe the studio? But then you'd have 33% less cores and it seems Microsoft is going for more gpu power than the Kaby Lake g cpus provide.
That's because we're waiting on Qualcomm. Even the 845/850 isn't quite enough. Maybe after they release their slightly higher TDP next-gen chips.
As for KBL-G in Surface... I want what you are smoking. I mean, maybe if they made it like an inch thick with a couple extra fans, underclocked it a little... nah.
Surface Studio continues to baffle. Premium display mated to laptop parts. The press conference mentioned 35% more CPU performance, which means it’s probably sticking with U-series CPUs. Maybe they do the hex-core model, but that might be too expensive. MS missed big time by going with mobile innards. iMac (non-Pro) uses a 65W CPU, which is cheaper and has more sustained power over a mobile part. MS said they couldn’t make the design work with desktop CPUs, but I just can’t believe that considering the iMac Pro has something like a 500w cooling design. With the right internals, it would have been a walk-off home run. Instead, it goes on a 2 year refresh cycle with laptop parts.
While I would have agreed with you just a year ago, laptop parts these days are ridiculously powerful. The Core i5-8350U, a 15w part, is faster than a DESKTOP Core i7 from just a few years ago that uses around 6x the power.
If Coffee Lake did anything, it was especially noticeable in the U-series parts.
There's really no point in desktop-TDP parts these days anyway, even in desktop form factors. You just end up bloating your system, adding cooling complexity, adding noisy fans, and discharging a lot more waste heat. We're at a point now where the majority of computers purchased are mobile systems of some sort anyway so the economies of scale advantage is leaning away from desktop computers. You could argue that GPUs justify the need for added cooling ,but look at recent NVIDIA graphics cards and how they've rocketed up in price, but offer insignificant performance advantages over previous generations within the same TDP envelope. They also have few, if any, actual advantages over iGPUs beyond playing games at higher resolutions which is something that already happens well on dedicated console hardware and isn't broadly appealing to adults anyway. So yeah, though I don't really agree with how Microsoft handles their operating system, I think they selected a good combination of hardware for the Surface Studio given its intended computing role.
So the Surface Studio was released with Maxwell a few months after Pascal launched, and the Surface Studio 2 is releasing with Pascal...about a month after Turing launched. I guess it's better than before, but seriously Microsoft?
This event seems like a complete non-starter. The Surface Pro was released with a quad-core CPU...that everyone knew it'd be getting because the U-series processors are quad-core now. The Surface Studio is being refreshed with a previous-generation GPU...again. The Surface Laptop is refreshed with new CPUs. Oh, and some headphones. This entire event could have been replaced with a press release on their website. I guess making the Surface Pro black again is cool.
Development takes longer than a couple months, dude. You can't just "real quick" swap the GPU in an extremely compact fully-custom design. If it was a fat desktop that could house a full-size GPU, sure. Why not. But it isn't...
6TFlops is plenty for the target audience anyway. I don't know why all these spec hounds keep acting like this is a gaming rig or something. Look at the frickin' display. Even the original Studio has enough raw horsepower for artists. The main flaw of the first gen was the SSHD, which is now a decent sized SSD.
I dunno, the thing begs to be used as a photography studio, but it needs heavy lifting processors, not mobile ones—especially when you factor in price. I know why Turing isn’t inside—there is no mobile equivalent yet. I think the GPU is actually probably about right—too many pixels to expect big things in the gaming department.
Yes, of course development takes more than a couple of months. I don't see where I suggested that Microsoft could have put Turing in it and launched it now. I was more considering postponing the launch to fit a new uArch in instead of launching with the old one right after the new one was announced. It's not like the old Surface Studio could have gotten more outdated than it already was.
If anything, I think Turing's features would work pretty well in a machine marketed towards creatives. 3D modelling with real-time raytracing would be pretty cool.
I was actually hoping Microsoft would release the display without a computer. It's a fantastic display, but it's permanently tied to its computer.
If they wanted to delay, a better reason would be to get new CPUs with more hardware Spectre fixes. As it is we're still going to have to wait anyway, or else continue to buy "new" systems with firmware working around problems, some of which there is a known hardware fix for.
I absolutely disagree that this is a good update for Surface Pro.... The iris graphics 640 included with the i7 on the previous gen (surface pro 2017) is gone. Sure you get more cores; but your graphics solution has been gimped in half. #notanupgrade
The new Surface devices released, none of which use USB-C, but the new accessory relies on USB-C to charge. Do these teams not talk to one another? At the least it means you can't run the headphones off the Surface battery or do pass-through charging, and you can't share chargers, without extra cables or dongles.
Good to see 8th gen chips, but nothing here makes me want to upgrade from my i7 SP4. Bigger screen or smaller bezels, more ports...any of those might have got my attention. That's ok, just means I can spend the money on something else.
Surface laptop is a fantastic machine. Love the screen, keyboard, touchpad, clean design, great battery life, alcantara, Windows hello face login, but no thunderbolt 3 port or usb-c is a disaster.
RE "their entire lineup is now using the latest generation of CPUs and GPUs":
This doesn't seem to be true- their base (IGP) Surface book 2 is still on 7th gen CPU in what I can only read as an f-you to consumers. It was a dick move last year when that line was refreshed and I haven't heard anything in this year's announcements that would bring it up to par with last year's XPSs, Spectres, etc that had the quaad-core 8250 or similar in their base config.
Kind of disappointed to not get any news on the Surface Go 256GB. I'm holding out hope that they'll launch a higher spec version with Amber Lake parts, but realistically I'll probably have to wait for the next refresh at least.
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OFelix - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
That Surface Laptop 2 sucks!1 x USB 3.0 port.
ONE! 3.OH!
shabby - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
Courage!dan3952 - Saturday, October 27, 2018 - link
That would be a deal breaker for me as well. Sometimes I can't get used to the two USB-3 ports on my Lenovo where I had three on my previous model. Thunderbolt-3 is a worthy powerful replacement, however, for one of them.HStewart - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
I can see that with my Samsung Tab Pro - but it had USB-c which I can understand - it appears Microsoft is acting like Apple less ports in ways to reduce possible damage inside.HStewart - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
That was suppose to be under USB 3.0 port topicGreenReaper - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
It's been like this ever since the first Surface Pro (which I have in front of me). I think a big part of it is power draw - tablets, in particular, just can't power a large number of high-drawing USB components, unless they have a power brick and cord to match - and they want to avoid that.Those who want to do so can buy high-priced docks, presumably with their own power supplies.
HStewart - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
What I am still amazed with all these Surface including the Surface Go, and all the work on Windows 10 for ARM, they is absolutely NO surface with Windows 10 for ARM.I believe Qualcomm paid Microsoft to create Windows 10 for ARM.
Also I am curious why there is no surface with KabyLake G.
Dr. Swag - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
Kaby Lake g doesn't really fit into any of the surface products. The pro and laptop are too thin to have all that heat and the point of the book is to have the gpu and cpu separated.Maybe the studio? But then you'd have 33% less cores and it seems Microsoft is going for more gpu power than the Kaby Lake g cpus provide.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
That's because we're waiting on Qualcomm. Even the 845/850 isn't quite enough. Maybe after they release their slightly higher TDP next-gen chips.As for KBL-G in Surface... I want what you are smoking. I mean, maybe if they made it like an inch thick with a couple extra fans, underclocked it a little... nah.
domboy - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
Yeah, I was really hoping to see an ARM-based Surface announced. That's what I'm waiting for...MonkeyPaw - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
Surface Studio continues to baffle. Premium display mated to laptop parts. The press conference mentioned 35% more CPU performance, which means it’s probably sticking with U-series CPUs. Maybe they do the hex-core model, but that might be too expensive. MS missed big time by going with mobile innards. iMac (non-Pro) uses a 65W CPU, which is cheaper and has more sustained power over a mobile part. MS said they couldn’t make the design work with desktop CPUs, but I just can’t believe that considering the iMac Pro has something like a 500w cooling design. With the right internals, it would have been a walk-off home run. Instead, it goes on a 2 year refresh cycle with laptop parts.Samus - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
While I would have agreed with you just a year ago, laptop parts these days are ridiculously powerful. The Core i5-8350U, a 15w part, is faster than a DESKTOP Core i7 from just a few years ago that uses around 6x the power.If Coffee Lake did anything, it was especially noticeable in the U-series parts.
PeachNCream - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
There's really no point in desktop-TDP parts these days anyway, even in desktop form factors. You just end up bloating your system, adding cooling complexity, adding noisy fans, and discharging a lot more waste heat. We're at a point now where the majority of computers purchased are mobile systems of some sort anyway so the economies of scale advantage is leaning away from desktop computers. You could argue that GPUs justify the need for added cooling ,but look at recent NVIDIA graphics cards and how they've rocketed up in price, but offer insignificant performance advantages over previous generations within the same TDP envelope. They also have few, if any, actual advantages over iGPUs beyond playing games at higher resolutions which is something that already happens well on dedicated console hardware and isn't broadly appealing to adults anyway. So yeah, though I don't really agree with how Microsoft handles their operating system, I think they selected a good combination of hardware for the Surface Studio given its intended computing role.Inteli - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
So the Surface Studio was released with Maxwell a few months after Pascal launched, and the Surface Studio 2 is releasing with Pascal...about a month after Turing launched. I guess it's better than before, but seriously Microsoft?This event seems like a complete non-starter. The Surface Pro was released with a quad-core CPU...that everyone knew it'd be getting because the U-series processors are quad-core now. The Surface Studio is being refreshed with a previous-generation GPU...again. The Surface Laptop is refreshed with new CPUs. Oh, and some headphones. This entire event could have been replaced with a press release on their website. I guess making the Surface Pro black again is cool.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
Development takes longer than a couple months, dude. You can't just "real quick" swap the GPU in an extremely compact fully-custom design. If it was a fat desktop that could house a full-size GPU, sure. Why not. But it isn't...6TFlops is plenty for the target audience anyway. I don't know why all these spec hounds keep acting like this is a gaming rig or something. Look at the frickin' display. Even the original Studio has enough raw horsepower for artists. The main flaw of the first gen was the SSHD, which is now a decent sized SSD.
MonkeyPaw - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
I dunno, the thing begs to be used as a photography studio, but it needs heavy lifting processors, not mobile ones—especially when you factor in price. I know why Turing isn’t inside—there is no mobile equivalent yet. I think the GPU is actually probably about right—too many pixels to expect big things in the gaming department.Inteli - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
Yes, of course development takes more than a couple of months. I don't see where I suggested that Microsoft could have put Turing in it and launched it now. I was more considering postponing the launch to fit a new uArch in instead of launching with the old one right after the new one was announced. It's not like the old Surface Studio could have gotten more outdated than it already was.If anything, I think Turing's features would work pretty well in a machine marketed towards creatives. 3D modelling with real-time raytracing would be pretty cool.
I was actually hoping Microsoft would release the display without a computer. It's a fantastic display, but it's permanently tied to its computer.
GreenReaper - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
If they wanted to delay, a better reason would be to get new CPUs with more hardware Spectre fixes. As it is we're still going to have to wait anyway, or else continue to buy "new" systems with firmware working around problems, some of which there is a known hardware fix for.cbutters - Tuesday, October 2, 2018 - link
I absolutely disagree that this is a good update for Surface Pro.... The iris graphics 640 included with the i7 on the previous gen (surface pro 2017) is gone. Sure you get more cores; but your graphics solution has been gimped in half. #notanupgradeToTTenTranz - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
Yup, graphics performance will be a lot worse on the "new" i7 than on the 3 year-old i7 from the Surface Pro 4.I guess they know they have a dud, which is why they didn't livestream the event and bragged about the new pro being cheap.
Galcobar - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
The new Surface devices released, none of which use USB-C, but the new accessory relies on USB-C to charge. Do these teams not talk to one another? At the least it means you can't run the headphones off the Surface battery or do pass-through charging, and you can't share chargers, without extra cables or dongles.Galcobar - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
*Three newdigiguy - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
If the headphone charger is usb A to B you can. Not all USB C cables/chargers are USB C on both sides, unless they use power delivery.gipper51 - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
Good to see 8th gen chips, but nothing here makes me want to upgrade from my i7 SP4. Bigger screen or smaller bezels, more ports...any of those might have got my attention. That's ok, just means I can spend the money on something else.Skar69 - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
What version of display port is the pro running. On my pro 4 v1.4 I need to run a active display port to hdmi dongle to run my 4k monitor at 60Speedfriend - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
Does anybody have an idea which processors are going into the new SP6?Also it appears the lowest end SP has been discontinued?
Solo450 - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
There is some info here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/surface-pr...ScottSoapbox - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
We apparently have different definitions of "soon" as we continue to wait on those hands on of the new devices.Dug - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
Surface laptop is a fantastic machine. Love the screen, keyboard, touchpad, clean design, great battery life, alcantara, Windows hello face login, but no thunderbolt 3 port or usb-c is a disaster.hybrid2d4x4 - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
RE "their entire lineup is now using the latest generation of CPUs and GPUs":This doesn't seem to be true- their base (IGP) Surface book 2 is still on 7th gen CPU in what I can only read as an f-you to consumers. It was a dick move last year when that line was refreshed and I haven't heard anything in this year's announcements that would bring it up to par with last year's XPSs, Spectres, etc that had the quaad-core 8250 or similar in their base config.
gamer1000k - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
Kind of disappointed to not get any news on the Surface Go 256GB. I'm holding out hope that they'll launch a higher spec version with Amber Lake parts, but realistically I'll probably have to wait for the next refresh at least.