I just can't see them reorganizing fast enough, or convincing the very slow US government to change their mind. Even if they wanted to it would take ages, and it doesn't look like they do.
This company deserves to be bankrupted. They are selling advanced technologies to sponsors of terrorism. Your not even allowed to ship 3.5 Hard Drives to Iran or NK. ZTE was nuts for thinking they could ship high speed processors that use the latest american fabrication technologies and get away with it. Iran, Russia, China, NK, all have gotten extremely good at reverse engineering american technologies. It probably accounts for 3/4 of their technological progress (except maybe Russia and China).
I agree that ZTE has violated some terms and agreements but according to what comes out from your pipe hole, ZTE sponsors terrorism. So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked both of those countries haven’t attacked anyone but the 9-11 terrorists were all from Saudi Arabia which country the US is buddy with.
By the way, most softeware engineers in the US are Chinese and Indians. Being proud of their achievements and bashing their countries at the same time are just retarded.
"So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked both of those countries haven’t attacked anyone "
Iran sponsors Hezbollah - an organization which is terrorist according to US DoS. Hence it is a sponsor of terrorism. NK is sanctioned for development of nuclear weapons and missiles able to deliver them.
"So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked..." Check again. The US has a list of "State Sponsors of Terrorism" which has included Iran since 1988. North Korea has been on and off the list (it's currently on again as of 2017). ZTE knew they'd raise the ire of US officials at some point -- it was inevitable. They chose not to care or take the consequences seriously. The validity and justification of the list, its effectiveness, the backgrounds of people and companies involved, engineering statistics, and other data does not change the fact that the list exists and is enforced.
By the way, China treats around 400,000 of its citizens involved in high tech US research as "Chinese diaspora" that would help progress their military know how above the US by 2025...India is similar, but not that open, and India doesn't claim South China Sea and almost all of commercial sea routes in the Far East :) There is a lot of strategic mistakes done by the US in regards to transferring know-how to a very likely military opponent as China. Apparently it took the US politicians several decades to realize that this course will cost the US its influence over the Far East and Oceania, which is a basis for commercial and financial American hegemony. Regardless whether China is communists, democratic or whatever, it has a collusive path with US over the Pacific. Hence, today politics are different than five years ago. And ZTE is a state company directly extended from the Chinese Army and Intelligence :) btw
"By the way, most softeware engineers in the US are Chinese and Indians. "
This is another BS. This might be the case in certain companies, but in general, it is about 50/50 American-born/foreign-born, and the latter includes a whole lot of Europeans (including Eastern Europeans) and Canadians.
Good, now when the Huawei investigation is complete similar sanctions will be levied on it and thus destroying these two huge Chinese state companies who have used state money to dominate around the world.
Also these two companies have nearly destroyed the telecom equipment market by using Chinese state money, I would prefer Ericsson and Nokia networking than Huawei and ZTE.
Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the Huawei networking side and it's sins....
I just converted to Android... dumping my 4 Microsoft phones, 2 Lumia950XLs, 1 1520, 1 920 and purchasing 3 Huawei Mate 10 Lites DualSim for use in Mexico and the USA (got a good price on them for what they are)... I sense I won't see Oreo (Android8) updates for these 4 week old phones now... LOL. Oh well. Guess I just should have bought Samsung like everyone else.
Huawei isn't alone in all this. Cisco 2501 routers as far back as the late 90's had an IOS (internet operating system, the OS Cisco routers run) backdoor, commonly thought to have been used by the Federal Government and it's allies through the Bush Administration. Cisco naturally denied this and claimed it was a diagnostics port for lockouts and resets, and only they had access to it and it was only used locally for customer returns, etc.
We all know that was BS. When a router is locked out, you short two JTAG pins, it boots in recovery mode, and you are given the option to factory reset. There should never be a way to maintain a router configuration through an admin reset.
And this is why Cisco is no longer the dominant force in data centers and ISP backends.
Dunno what the situation with Huawei is, but unless they're stupid enough to say they're going to punish a bunch of people and then give most of them their regularly scheduled bonuses, they're only going to end up with a 'well this sucks' level fine like ZTE was initially hit with. It was only blatantly lying to US regulators about complying with the settlement that got ZTE a quasi-death sentence.
With ZTE's debacle as a warning, I'm reasonably confident that if Huawei says they're going to punish people who broke US sanctions to make the US govt happy, that those people actually will get sacked.
These kinds of sanctions wouldn't hurt Huawei nearly as much as it did ZTE.
Huawei makes their own SoC and LTE modems. Screens come from Samsung/LG/etc from outside the US. Same for batteries and all the other bits and bobs. They use the occasional Qualcomm SoC or modem in the lower-end models, which they don't really have a replacement for (although I guess they could re-purpose the Kirin 950 as their "low-end" SoC).
ZTE (at least for phones) was more of an integrator than a designer of their own parts. Which is why the sanctions have hurt them so badly, so quickly.
Kirin 65x series is already quite low-end (though quite old I might add since all 4 in the series are nearly 100% identical and the 650 is 2 years old, but it was quite modern for its class when it was new).
Right... That will be the ONLY consequence... No possibility that China might be somewhat pissed off by this, and ready to pick up the pieces and lead the world after the US shoots its wad and destroys the few remaining friendships it has by attacking Iran?
Man, who would even get mad at us if we attacked Iran? Russia, sure, but Russia gets mad at us no matter what we do. I'm pretty sure half of Russia's foreign policy is actually "adopt the opposite stance of whatever America said".
Everyone else will just go "tsk, tsk, there go those americans again" and continue on like nothing happened.
Aside from QCOM chips, what's the other technology that's hurting them? Google's android ?
Mediatek or some other SoC company could replace the QCOM options (aside from the terrible modem/power perf) and life would go on...what company isn't setup to have alternative suppliers in case things go south?
Taiwan also has a bunch of HW suppliers that should be able to supply the parts.
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Flunk - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
I just can't see them reorganizing fast enough, or convincing the very slow US government to change their mind. Even if they wanted to it would take ages, and it doesn't look like they do.Morawka - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
This company deserves to be bankrupted. They are selling advanced technologies to sponsors of terrorism. Your not even allowed to ship 3.5 Hard Drives to Iran or NK. ZTE was nuts for thinking they could ship high speed processors that use the latest american fabrication technologies and get away with it. Iran, Russia, China, NK, all have gotten extremely good at reverse engineering american technologies. It probably accounts for 3/4 of their technological progress (except maybe Russia and China).sonny73n - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
I agree that ZTE has violated some terms and agreements but according to what comes out from your pipe hole, ZTE sponsors terrorism. So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked both of those countries haven’t attacked anyone but the 9-11 terrorists were all from Saudi Arabia which country the US is buddy with.By the way, most softeware engineers in the US are Chinese and Indians. Being proud of their achievements and bashing their countries at the same time are just retarded.
peevee - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
"So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked both of those countries haven’t attacked anyone "Iran sponsors Hezbollah - an organization which is terrorist according to US DoS. Hence it is a sponsor of terrorism.
NK is sanctioned for development of nuclear weapons and missiles able to deliver them.
BigDragon - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
"So Iran and NK must be terrorist states. However last time I checked..."Check again. The US has a list of "State Sponsors of Terrorism" which has included Iran since 1988. North Korea has been on and off the list (it's currently on again as of 2017). ZTE knew they'd raise the ire of US officials at some point -- it was inevitable. They chose not to care or take the consequences seriously. The validity and justification of the list, its effectiveness, the backgrounds of people and companies involved, engineering statistics, and other data does not change the fact that the list exists and is enforced.
Ananke - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
By the way, China treats around 400,000 of its citizens involved in high tech US research as "Chinese diaspora" that would help progress their military know how above the US by 2025...India is similar, but not that open, and India doesn't claim South China Sea and almost all of commercial sea routes in the Far East :)There is a lot of strategic mistakes done by the US in regards to transferring know-how to a very likely military opponent as China. Apparently it took the US politicians several decades to realize that this course will cost the US its influence over the Far East and Oceania, which is a basis for commercial and financial American hegemony. Regardless whether China is communists, democratic or whatever, it has a collusive path with US over the Pacific.
Hence, today politics are different than five years ago.
And ZTE is a state company directly extended from the Chinese Army and Intelligence :) btw
peevee - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
"By the way, most softeware engineers in the US are Chinese and Indians. "This is another BS. This might be the case in certain companies, but in general, it is about 50/50 American-born/foreign-born, and the latter includes a whole lot of Europeans (including Eastern Europeans) and Canadians.
peevee - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
"or convincing the very slow US government to change their mind."They did once already, and still did the same thing afterwards. If our government trusts them again, they are traitors.
BMNify - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Good, now when the Huawei investigation is complete similar sanctions will be levied on it and thus destroying these two huge Chinese state companies who have used state money to dominate around the world.BMNify - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Also these two companies have nearly destroyed the telecom equipment market by using Chinese state money, I would prefer Ericsson and Nokia networking than Huawei and ZTE.HardwareDufus - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the Huawei networking side and it's sins....I just converted to Android... dumping my 4 Microsoft phones, 2 Lumia950XLs, 1 1520, 1 920 and purchasing 3 Huawei Mate 10 Lites DualSim for use in Mexico and the USA (got a good price on them for what they are)... I sense I won't see Oreo (Android8) updates for these 4 week old phones now... LOL. Oh well. Guess I just should have bought Samsung like everyone else.
Samus - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Huawei isn't alone in all this. Cisco 2501 routers as far back as the late 90's had an IOS (internet operating system, the OS Cisco routers run) backdoor, commonly thought to have been used by the Federal Government and it's allies through the Bush Administration. Cisco naturally denied this and claimed it was a diagnostics port for lockouts and resets, and only they had access to it and it was only used locally for customer returns, etc.We all know that was BS. When a router is locked out, you short two JTAG pins, it boots in recovery mode, and you are given the option to factory reset. There should never be a way to maintain a router configuration through an admin reset.
And this is why Cisco is no longer the dominant force in data centers and ISP backends.
DanNeely - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Dunno what the situation with Huawei is, but unless they're stupid enough to say they're going to punish a bunch of people and then give most of them their regularly scheduled bonuses, they're only going to end up with a 'well this sucks' level fine like ZTE was initially hit with. It was only blatantly lying to US regulators about complying with the settlement that got ZTE a quasi-death sentence.With ZTE's debacle as a warning, I'm reasonably confident that if Huawei says they're going to punish people who broke US sanctions to make the US govt happy, that those people actually will get sacked.
phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
These kinds of sanctions wouldn't hurt Huawei nearly as much as it did ZTE.Huawei makes their own SoC and LTE modems. Screens come from Samsung/LG/etc from outside the US. Same for batteries and all the other bits and bobs. They use the occasional Qualcomm SoC or modem in the lower-end models, which they don't really have a replacement for (although I guess they could re-purpose the Kirin 950 as their "low-end" SoC).
ZTE (at least for phones) was more of an integrator than a designer of their own parts. Which is why the sanctions have hurt them so badly, so quickly.
mczak - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
Kirin 65x series is already quite low-end (though quite old I might add since all 4 in the series are nearly 100% identical and the 650 is 2 years old, but it was quite modern for its class when it was new).name99 - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
Right... That will be the ONLY consequence...No possibility that China might be somewhat pissed off by this, and ready to pick up the pieces and lead the world after the US shoots its wad and destroys the few remaining friendships it has by attacking Iran?
Lord of the Bored - Friday, May 11, 2018 - link
Man, who would even get mad at us if we attacked Iran? Russia, sure, but Russia gets mad at us no matter what we do. I'm pretty sure half of Russia's foreign policy is actually "adopt the opposite stance of whatever America said".Everyone else will just go "tsk, tsk, there go those americans again" and continue on like nothing happened.
Lord of the Bored - Friday, May 11, 2018 - link
Addendum to note I'm not saying that attacking Iran is a good idea, just that the actual political repercussions would be fairly mild.webdoctors - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Aside from QCOM chips, what's the other technology that's hurting them? Google's android ?Mediatek or some other SoC company could replace the QCOM options (aside from the terrible modem/power perf) and life would go on...what company isn't setup to have alternative suppliers in case things go south?
Taiwan also has a bunch of HW suppliers that should be able to supply the parts.
evefavretto - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Chips for their networking gear. FPGAs and other stuff. Those are way harder to replace, simply because most of the suppliers are US based.shabby - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Trump just put a chinese company out of business, this is unpresidented...Achaios - Thursday, May 10, 2018 - link
Sounds like somebody got pwned old-style.