Either teaming the connections with a higher end router for 2gb total bandwidth instead of just 1 (only makes sense if you've got a second device with teamed networking or the router has at least 1 2.5/5/10g port active; or as a DIY firewall/router (with a downstream switch)/etc. The latter doesn't need a big GPU though.
It also could be used for fault tolerance or a NAS system. We really need 10Gb LAN fast. 1Gb is just too slow for modern hard drives, and with NVMe drives we should just ship 10Gb and move straight to 100Gb. Also remember LAN ports are in bits not bytes. So 1Gb/s LAN is only 125MB/s. 10Gb/s is 1.25GB/s. The current fastest NVMe drive is the Samsung 960 Pro which is 2.1GB/s per second on a single drive, and this supports 2 NVMe drives in RAID 0. Which after accounting for overhead is theoretically 3.78GB/s writes and 3.5GB/s read speeds in single drive and 5.6GB/s in RAID 0. There are other limiting factors too complex to get into with actual speeds. But this is just current technology. And with only a single drive and the 2.1GB/s writes, a gigabit connection only supports 1/17th of this single hard drives write capacity and 1/28th of its read capacity. We need to start getting future proofed. Fiber optic cables are likely the next step.
The simplest reason is access to two networks. I used to buy extra IP addresses from my ISP, and just network my home pc's with switches. No router needed.
A more realistic reason would be a dedicated VOIP network delivered over Ethernet where packet loss needs to be zero, and latency needs to be minimal.
Better to have an edge router taking care of the virtual ip adresses, and your VOIP use case makes no sense. Small businesses can have hosted VOIP and large businesses would have dedicated Cisco/Avaya/etc hardware interacting with the IP phones and soft clients, this machine would fit nowhere in the infrastructure. Best justification to have a 2nd port is redundancy for future failures.
You're right that a business isn't likely to use a NUC in their networking infrastructure, but I like a 2nd Ethernet port because it gives me the option to run the machine as a home router when I'm done using it as a desktop. Also, I like to play around with networking. The second Eth port enables me to do all kinds of fun stuff. I think there is a lot of value in that. Though it's probably not for everyone, I mostly made this comment because I want companies to continue to provide a 2nd Ethernet port.
LOL! This would be an awful mining rig. You really should do some research before you blow a ton of money like that on something that will cost you money instead of making you money. If you do not do your research you will loose your house, truck, shirt, pants and dog before you know it. If you already have one of these for another use yeah go ahead and make $10-20 a month on it. But at $999 before hard drive and memory, it is a very bad investment for mining. With large operations and the huge climb in GPU costs, unless you have 1m plus to invest, mining is not going to get you a decent return any more. You are better off investing your money with a reputable stock trader. Hell you are better off hunting for scrap metal.
A second LAN port, lets you use this as a media server. The GPU can encode video and stream it to many clients in a home without having to worry about overwhelming one LAN port (like if many people were streaming 4k video or something).
This media server use case is just one of many others that a second LAN port enables. I buy computers with a second LAN port, so I have the option to use the machine as a router (when it's no longer fast enough to be a desktop). Also if you run out of ports on a switch, you can plug in another device to the second LAN port and share its connection (if you know how to config your OS)
Having more than one LAN port is fantastic! Thought it's something that power users tend to appreciate. And even power users only come around to enjoying it after they've had a computer with two LAN ports.
Well yes. These are gigabit connection and 8 bits = 1 byte. So effectively a 1,000 gigabit connection is only a 125 megabyte connection. Which is only as fast as an old spinning mechanical hard drive. And if you were to have a NAS or SSD drive on the network for backup which is capable of approximately 500 MB/s write speeds even a dual gigabit connection is still a limiting transfer speed. And with data overhead you do not get your maximum theoretical speeds either. You would get approximately 110 MB/s or about 218-223 MB/s maximum real world speeds which still falls far short of what a single SSD drive attached to the network could perform at. Also you could use these for fault tolerance if the system is remote, or on a manufacturing plant floor. There are a lot of reasons both business and consumers would both want dual gigabit connections. Most average consumers will never use the full bandwidth of a gigabit connection, though some will. And if you are paying $999 before you even add memory and hard drives, you bet you want that second LAN port. Also the only dumb question is the one never asked. Otherwise you never learn.
1k$ + 300-400$ for DRAM and SSD for just a quad core paired with a 120$ class GPU- assuming 2018 GPUs not old ones and normal GPU prices without the mining boost. You can argue about portability but in that case a laptop is way better.
Well basically any these are more powerful version of quad core U processor package with Vega - for me ,birthday hope Intel comes up with NVidia package to give users option in supporting and another kind of Gpu
I believe eventually this will be replace with dGPU designed by Raju
It is not a powerful quad-core U. Rather, they are taking the -H series processor die and using at as-is. That is the same class as the CPU used in Skull Canyon (Core i7-6700HQ), only difference is that it is the Kaby Lake generation. Those are 45W TDP (compared to the 15 - 28W U-series), and a class by themselves.
Highly doubt that. Raja may be at the helm of Graphics for Intel but Intel neither does have patents for GPU making from both RTG and NVIDIA. cant make chips w/o striking a patent infringement
Nvidia's mainstream designs currently do not use HBM2 in any real capacity. This means that Intel would need to include on-die GDDR5 or create a new socket interface, both of which are massively more expensive than any of the work done solely on this product.
Not sure where you're coming from, as the CPU has 2x the graphics cores as found in Ryzen APUs coming out this year AND includes HBM2 memory onboard.
I can argue about portability AND performance -- find me a cheaper laptop with higher performance and doesn't thermally throttle after an hour. I had the previous one while going away to school and it was incredibly nice to be able to bring my "desktop" home over the break. Going from "this can barely play rocket league" to "this can probably play PUBG" will be a nice upgrade.
I don't think this is for people looking for the most bang for the buck. This product appeals to me because it's small enough to fit on my desk next to my monitor (giving me access to all that luscious I/O) w/o taking up half my desk. Yeah, you could get a mobo, GPU, PSU, and CPU for less than $1k. You could put it all in a case you make out of an old cardboard box. You can probably outdo this NUC in every benchmark with such a system. But that's not the point. If you're like me, living in a large city where every square foot matters, reaching down to the floor to access all your, I/O got old a long time ago. I might be willing to pay more for the luxury of this form factor.
I haven't had any problems with the Intel NUC's I've configured. Setup a NUC5i7RYH for my mother 2 years ago as her main desktop computer and she still uses it and it flies along. Then I configured a NUC7i5BNH last year for my brother as his college computer and it worked out great for him. My only complaint is the i7 I configured for my mother can get loud out of no where which can be annoying, you can be browsing a website and the leaf blower will come on. That model was prone to that from what I read online so I kind of regret getting it but oh well. For your average person that wants a super fast computer and doesn't play any demanding games, you can't beat a NUC. Most of the people I've configured them for have never used a computer with a SSD, night and day difference. I haven't looked at the peformance of the discreat GPU that comes with this new NUC, wonder what it can handle?
Direct competition is the ASRock Deskmini series (using MXM modules). The Deskmini has a smaller footprint with a slightly larger overall volume, but with a custom case (e.g. initial design CustomMod Nano) it's actually smaller than the NUC. Similar pricing too for the Deskmini 1060 (a bit cheaper than the upper-end NUC) and can go up to a 1080 for a big chunk of change more.
Too early for USB 3.2 ; M.2 is off the PCH probably due to the need to support RAID configurations. There is no excuse for TB3 not being off the CPU's PCIe lanes. I have kept telling Intel that since they launched Skull Canyon.
In fact, there is not a single motherboard / system out there with the TB3 controller hanging off the CPU's PCIe lanes. I am not sure why...
You might have something there. If literally nobody has the TB3 pcie lanes coming from the CPU maybe it doesn't work right off the CPU, or maybe the guidance from the design guides is recommended from PCH?
Hi guys I'm new to the tech world and there's something that has been bothering me for a while, usually when a motherboard has two nics it's Intel i219-LM and i210-AT, why are they offered in that combo? Is there a difference between the two nics and which is the better one for internet or file transfer, thanks.
The i217, i218, and now i219 series of NICs come from a phy off the PCH. While the i210-AT comes from a discrete controller. The reason for this is that there is usually only one Ethernet PHY per chipset so you have to choose a different NIC for #2.
The lid is replaceable, and you get both with the purchase of the NUC. So, it is just a matter of taking the Skull lid out and putting the other one on.
As much as I love both the NUC form-factor and the idea of the new Kaby Lake G CPUs, this pricing is absurd. You can buy a full-blown gaming laptop with a GTX 1060 for a few bucks more than the top-end Hades Canyon SKU: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074L1NK79/ref=asc_df_B0...
Any reasons why you would take upside down photos, and not orient/align them properly when you publish them. Seriously annoying looking at upside down photos.
I'm noticing mistakes like this on all the tech blogs. Everyone is frantically trying to be the first to get info out that first drafts are getting published and never touched again! These sites should have at least an intern go over published articles and fix typos, formatting, and images!
I don't know. I've been looking forward to this device ever since the G SKUs leaked months ago, but the pricing seems a little steep. I was hoping to use this in my living room as a Kodi and Emulator PC. The reason why I always end up buying NUCs for media PCs (living room and bedrooms) is the ability to power them on via IR.
I'm not married to Intel, by any means, so if AMD wants to release their own SFF PC with an IR sensor that can power it on from S5 and it's even a little cheaper than this guy, I'm interested!
There is a typo in the table. The dimensions of the Hades Canyon NUCs (221mm x 142mm x 39mm / 1.2L), not 21mm x 142mm x 39mm / 1.2L. Either the dimensions or volume of the Skull Canyon NUC (216mm x 116mm x 23mm / 0.69L) is incorrect. 216mm x 116mm x 23mm = 0.576L, not 0.69L.
It’ll run loud like a hair drier, and quite hot to touch, attach 3 monitors and it’ll probably thermal throttle or switch off! It’ll need at least a C7 copper version for decent temp and noise. But that will never happen unless some start making custom cases for them.
"7.1 digital output over optical/toslink" Has something happened I'm not aware of? I thought consumer-grade SPDIF was limited to 1.5Mbps 5.1 DTS at the absolute most.
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skavi - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
Damn, that's a lot of IO. Also, I'm dumb. What does one do with two LAN ports?DanNeely - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
Either teaming the connections with a higher end router for 2gb total bandwidth instead of just 1 (only makes sense if you've got a second device with teamed networking or the router has at least 1 2.5/5/10g port active; or as a DIY firewall/router (with a downstream switch)/etc. The latter doesn't need a big GPU though.theopensauce - Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - link
It also could be used for fault tolerance or a NAS system. We really need 10Gb LAN fast. 1Gb is just too slow for modern hard drives, and with NVMe drives we should just ship 10Gb and move straight to 100Gb. Also remember LAN ports are in bits not bytes. So 1Gb/s LAN is only 125MB/s. 10Gb/s is 1.25GB/s. The current fastest NVMe drive is the Samsung 960 Pro which is 2.1GB/s per second on a single drive, and this supports 2 NVMe drives in RAID 0. Which after accounting for overhead is theoretically 3.78GB/s writes and 3.5GB/s read speeds in single drive and 5.6GB/s in RAID 0. There are other limiting factors too complex to get into with actual speeds. But this is just current technology. And with only a single drive and the 2.1GB/s writes, a gigabit connection only supports 1/17th of this single hard drives write capacity and 1/28th of its read capacity. We need to start getting future proofed. Fiber optic cables are likely the next step.redavni0 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
The simplest reason is access to two networks. I used to buy extra IP addresses from my ISP, and just network my home pc's with switches. No router needed.A more realistic reason would be a dedicated VOIP network delivered over Ethernet where packet loss needs to be zero, and latency needs to be minimal.
euler007 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Better to have an edge router taking care of the virtual ip adresses, and your VOIP use case makes no sense. Small businesses can have hosted VOIP and large businesses would have dedicated Cisco/Avaya/etc hardware interacting with the IP phones and soft clients, this machine would fit nowhere in the infrastructure. Best justification to have a 2nd port is redundancy for future failures.cheese23 - Thursday, January 11, 2018 - link
You're right that a business isn't likely to use a NUC in their networking infrastructure, but I like a 2nd Ethernet port because it gives me the option to run the machine as a home router when I'm done using it as a desktop. Also, I like to play around with networking. The second Eth port enables me to do all kinds of fun stuff. I think there is a lot of value in that. Though it's probably not for everyone, I mostly made this comment because I want companies to continue to provide a 2nd Ethernet port.forgerone - Thursday, February 8, 2018 - link
I wonder how it would work as a mining rig? Buy a stack and build a mining cluster.theopensauce - Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - link
LOL! This would be an awful mining rig. You really should do some research before you blow a ton of money like that on something that will cost you money instead of making you money. If you do not do your research you will loose your house, truck, shirt, pants and dog before you know it. If you already have one of these for another use yeah go ahead and make $10-20 a month on it. But at $999 before hard drive and memory, it is a very bad investment for mining. With large operations and the huge climb in GPU costs, unless you have 1m plus to invest, mining is not going to get you a decent return any more. You are better off investing your money with a reputable stock trader. Hell you are better off hunting for scrap metal.cheese23 - Thursday, January 11, 2018 - link
A second LAN port, lets you use this as a media server. The GPU can encode video and stream it to many clients in a home without having to worry about overwhelming one LAN port (like if many people were streaming 4k video or something).This media server use case is just one of many others that a second LAN port enables. I buy computers with a second LAN port, so I have the option to use the machine as a router (when it's no longer fast enough to be a desktop). Also if you run out of ports on a switch, you can plug in another device to the second LAN port and share its connection (if you know how to config your OS)
Having more than one LAN port is fantastic! Thought it's something that power users tend to appreciate. And even power users only come around to enjoying it after they've had a computer with two LAN ports.
hubick - Friday, January 12, 2018 - link
Use it to build a little Linux/BSD based router! :-)theopensauce - Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - link
LOL! Not at $799 before hard drive and memory. There are a LOT of better and cheaper options that also use much less power too.theopensauce - Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - link
Well yes. These are gigabit connection and 8 bits = 1 byte. So effectively a 1,000 gigabit connection is only a 125 megabyte connection. Which is only as fast as an old spinning mechanical hard drive. And if you were to have a NAS or SSD drive on the network for backup which is capable of approximately 500 MB/s write speeds even a dual gigabit connection is still a limiting transfer speed. And with data overhead you do not get your maximum theoretical speeds either. You would get approximately 110 MB/s or about 218-223 MB/s maximum real world speeds which still falls far short of what a single SSD drive attached to the network could perform at. Also you could use these for fault tolerance if the system is remote, or on a manufacturing plant floor. There are a lot of reasons both business and consumers would both want dual gigabit connections. Most average consumers will never use the full bandwidth of a gigabit connection, though some will. And if you are paying $999 before you even add memory and hard drives, you bet you want that second LAN port. Also the only dumb question is the one never asked. Otherwise you never learn.jjj - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
LOL those prices are nuts for a low perf desktop.1k$ + 300-400$ for DRAM and SSD for just a quad core paired with a 120$ class GPU- assuming 2018 GPUs not old ones and normal GPU prices without the mining boost.
You can argue about portability but in that case a laptop is way better.
limitedaccess - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
Price given hardware specs is high compared to laptops as well.These are only interesting if you specifically need this form factor and ports, and are willing to pay for it.
HStewart - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Well basically any these are more powerful version of quad core U processor package with Vega - for me ,birthday hope Intel comes up with NVidia package to give users option in supporting and another kind of GpuI believe eventually this will be replace with dGPU designed by Raju
ganeshts - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
It is not a powerful quad-core U. Rather, they are taking the -H series processor die and using at as-is. That is the same class as the CPU used in Skull Canyon (Core i7-6700HQ), only difference is that it is the Kaby Lake generation. Those are 45W TDP (compared to the 15 - 28W U-series), and a class by themselves.Aspect Of Cancer - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Highly doubt that. Raja may be at the helm of Graphics for Intel but Intel neither does have patents for GPU making from both RTG and NVIDIA. cant make chips w/o striking a patent infringementlmcd - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Nvidia's mainstream designs currently do not use HBM2 in any real capacity. This means that Intel would need to include on-die GDDR5 or create a new socket interface, both of which are massively more expensive than any of the work done solely on this product.lmcd - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Not sure where you're coming from, as the CPU has 2x the graphics cores as found in Ryzen APUs coming out this year AND includes HBM2 memory onboard.I can argue about portability AND performance -- find me a cheaper laptop with higher performance and doesn't thermally throttle after an hour. I had the previous one while going away to school and it was incredibly nice to be able to bring my "desktop" home over the break. Going from "this can barely play rocket league" to "this can probably play PUBG" will be a nice upgrade.
FMinus - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
it's basically Vega Mobile (announced by AMD today) but on the same substrate as the Intel CPU, not the same thing as the Vega cores in AMD APUs.cheese23 - Thursday, January 11, 2018 - link
I don't think this is for people looking for the most bang for the buck. This product appeals to me because it's small enough to fit on my desk next to my monitor (giving me access to all that luscious I/O) w/o taking up half my desk. Yeah, you could get a mobo, GPU, PSU, and CPU for less than $1k. You could put it all in a case you make out of an old cardboard box. You can probably outdo this NUC in every benchmark with such a system. But that's not the point. If you're like me, living in a large city where every square foot matters, reaching down to the floor to access all your, I/O got old a long time ago. I might be willing to pay more for the luxury of this form factor.gigahertz20 - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
I haven't had any problems with the Intel NUC's I've configured. Setup a NUC5i7RYH for my mother 2 years ago as her main desktop computer and she still uses it and it flies along. Then I configured a NUC7i5BNH last year for my brother as his college computer and it worked out great for him. My only complaint is the i7 I configured for my mother can get loud out of no where which can be annoying, you can be browsing a website and the leaf blower will come on. That model was prone to that from what I read online so I kind of regret getting it but oh well. For your average person that wants a super fast computer and doesn't play any demanding games, you can't beat a NUC. Most of the people I've configured them for have never used a computer with a SSD, night and day difference. I haven't looked at the peformance of the discreat GPU that comes with this new NUC, wonder what it can handle?Oxford Guy - Monday, February 12, 2018 - link
Yes. Reviewers are likely to ignore the fan noise issue, even though it can break a product like this for real users.phononny - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
2018 Mac Minis?We can only hope....
iwod - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Way too expensive for mac Mini. But you can already imagine how small it will be if Apple use this.255BB - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
the i7 in Skull canyon is 6770HQ not 6700HQ.ganeshts - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Thanks! I fixed the typo.Corbeaux - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Does it support QuickSync?Corbeaux - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
NVM, ijust read the article. It does.Rainbird01 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
It's not totally clear to me from the article, but does the NUC support Freesync on any of its display outputs?edzieba - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Direct competition is the ASRock Deskmini series (using MXM modules). The Deskmini has a smaller footprint with a slightly larger overall volume, but with a custom case (e.g. initial design CustomMod Nano) it's actually smaller than the NUC. Similar pricing too for the Deskmini 1060 (a bit cheaper than the upper-end NUC) and can go up to a 1080 for a big chunk of change more.bill44 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
MIA - Titan Ridge TB3 controller, USB 3.2.Shame about the PCIe lane allocation. M.2 and TB3 should be directly connected to the CPU PCI lanes.
ganeshts - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Too early for USB 3.2 ; M.2 is off the PCH probably due to the need to support RAID configurations. There is no excuse for TB3 not being off the CPU's PCIe lanes. I have kept telling Intel that since they launched Skull Canyon.In fact, there is not a single motherboard / system out there with the TB3 controller hanging off the CPU's PCIe lanes. I am not sure why...
cacnoff - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
You might have something there. If literally nobody has the TB3 pcie lanes coming from the CPU maybe it doesn't work right off the CPU, or maybe the guidance from the design guides is recommended from PCH?SagePath - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Hi guys I'm new to the tech world and there's something that has been bothering me for a while, usually when a motherboard has two nics it's Intel i219-LM and i210-AT, why are they offered in that combo? Is there a difference between the two nics and which is the better one for internet or file transfer, thanks.cacnoff - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
The i217, i218, and now i219 series of NICs come from a phy off the PCH. While the i210-AT comes from a discrete controller. The reason for this is that there is usually only one Ethernet PHY per chipset so you have to choose a different NIC for #2.Gc - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
"64 PPC" vs "32 PPC" sounds like a big difference... What is "PPC" ?Gc - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Found it in the launch article:pGPU Pixels per Clock
jeeperz - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Can I pay extra to not have the skull decal?ganeshts - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
The lid is replaceable, and you get both with the purchase of the NUC. So, it is just a matter of taking the Skull lid out and putting the other one on.cacnoff - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
The lid IS replaceable, but you won't have to if you don't like the skull. Just turn the LEDs off and the Skull will be invisible.techguymaxc - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
As much as I love both the NUC form-factor and the idea of the new Kaby Lake G CPUs, this pricing is absurd. You can buy a full-blown gaming laptop with a GTX 1060 for a few bucks more than the top-end Hades Canyon SKU:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074L1NK79/ref=asc_df_B0...
FMinus - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Any reasons why you would take upside down photos, and not orient/align them properly when you publish them. Seriously annoying looking at upside down photos.Sergio526 - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
I'm noticing mistakes like this on all the tech blogs. Everyone is frantically trying to be the first to get info out that first drafts are getting published and never touched again! These sites should have at least an intern go over published articles and fix typos, formatting, and images!Sergio526 - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
I don't know. I've been looking forward to this device ever since the G SKUs leaked months ago, but the pricing seems a little steep. I was hoping to use this in my living room as a Kodi and Emulator PC. The reason why I always end up buying NUCs for media PCs (living room and bedrooms) is the ability to power them on via IR.I'm not married to Intel, by any means, so if AMD wants to release their own SFF PC with an IR sensor that can power it on from S5 and it's even a little cheaper than this guy, I'm interested!
Albertc - Friday, January 19, 2018 - link
There is a typo in the table. The dimensions of the Hades Canyon NUCs (221mm x 142mm x 39mm / 1.2L), not 21mm x 142mm x 39mm / 1.2L.Either the dimensions or volume of the Skull Canyon NUC (216mm x 116mm x 23mm / 0.69L) is incorrect. 216mm x 116mm x 23mm = 0.576L, not 0.69L.
forgerone - Thursday, February 8, 2018 - link
Have these been benched for mining? If they are equivalent to RX 580 then as an all in small box computer this would be pretty good.Buy a bunch and build a NUC mining cluster out of them.
Oxford Guy - Monday, February 12, 2018 - link
Fan noise is going to be a big problem?Blackjack2018 - Sunday, February 18, 2018 - link
It’ll run loud like a hair drier, and quite hot to touch, attach 3 monitors and it’ll probably thermal throttle or switch off! It’ll need at least a C7 copper version for decent temp and noise. But that will never happen unless some start making custom cases for them.piroroadkill - Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - link
"7.1 digital output over optical/toslink"Has something happened I'm not aware of? I thought consumer-grade SPDIF was limited to 1.5Mbps 5.1 DTS at the absolute most.