Pretty much the same way that intel's HEDT was supposed to end at 12 cores, but TR forced intel to take chips out of the xeon line, rebrand them and offer them at a much lower price in a different market so intel doesn't end up looking like a second grade HEDT CPU maker.
I don't think the chips were "designed to address Zen", I just think Intel has basically been holding back, taking their extra profits until there was potential of losing market share. They've known about Zen for a long time...
This is a new die so they aren't cherry picking in the same way that the 6 core chips being announced on Monday are new dies. These have been in development since before Zen was released. Zen will impact the pricing of the desktop chips but not the laptops ones as AMD still have no competition.
Funny you say that since RR isn't even scheduled to be released in the same quarter that CFL is supposed to appear in. Also the RR mobile parts should have a distinct advantage over their desktop counterparts, with just a single CCX.
I'll let you decide what that might be, the Vega(?) IGP should wipe the floor with any Intel IGP ever, except the Mac oriented Irises. Then there's the secret SMT sauce which can yield as much as 70~75% speedup in certain benchmarks (AES) though it might also have something to with NUMA ~ www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1932?vs=1934
It's the fear, Raven Riven pretty much kills all of the mid ranged gaming laptops with dgpu. When top of the line intel chips for mobile were the MQ quadcore, now it's mainstream for AMD standards.
The problem with those low base speeds is those are presumably the operating speed when all cores are being used. They will only run at full turbo on one (on i7, possibly two) cores, effectively keeping these dual core in demanding applications.
However, there is no arguing the turbo speeds are significantly higher than the previous gen. For 15W CPU's these are impressive.
My real question is how well the graphics have improved.
Speedstep is the key in making low base clocks plausible. 1 max turbo core is enough for the applications of low power parts; you won't be servicing hundreds server clients from these parts.
More cores is always better for low power parts (to an extent of course), even if your software stack is optimized and efficiently offloaded. In a multithreaded workload, 4 cores at reduced clocks would significantly reduce power consumption at the same performance level of 2 at max clocks. The difference is that more silicon and a bit larger die is needed, and poor Intel won't be making as much as they did before.
Do you really have the time and manpower to monitor every tech site in realtime to find these leak tidbits in such a timely fashion or are you tipped off by the likes of Intel marketing Dept?
The timely reporting of so many leaks from so many sources seems a bit too........timely!
It's not exactly hard to set up a notification for when a new tech leak happens. Then factor in having it be your day job to find and report these sorts of things. Not to mention a network of other folks doing the same.
These are the parts that go into the type of devices that I am usually more interested in these days but the performance would have to increase significantly for me to really get excited for these parts and the battery life on the devices that use these parts would have to be AT LEAST 6 or 7 hours, minimum.
Again, Intel, Lenovo, HP, whoever, some of us measure battery life with our brightness turned all the way up, we need devices that can last for hours without us having to make a ton of compromises in return.
A lot of sites do measure battery life with a certain percentage of brightness or a certain nit, but I think manufacturers need to work on coming up with display technology that is bright AND at least a bit more energy efficient than a lot of current devices that are out there right now.
I think this is why we see so low based Frequencies on these chips - but still have high turbo - I have a Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it will dynamically change frequency based on load - this way during normal operations or idle, it runs at lower frequency and when in demand - runs at higher frequency - so if under higher demand load, it like uses more battery.
Everyone can thank AMD and the hype they created with TR. So much hype that I bought one myself, 10 years after my current build (i7 920). I was convinced in a fews. They brought something new at last. Good for customers in the end.
I would think Intel has had plans for quad core U chips for a long while - maybe for X series chips can thank AMD - but I would think this mobile effort has been in works.
One interesting thought - is news of Atom C3xxx series including 16 core server chip at 35 watts - what if they research going mobile with a low power - high core count. No GPU which could explain why they could do it
Keep in mind these are U chips - and having quad core on these chips is going to be nice. Hopefully Intel designs in a mode to use only half the core and go at higher speeds - or with Hyperthreading is off.
So are these CPU's Coffee Lake U chips and I be curious if they have a Y version.
So it be interesting to see difference between 10nm and 14nm 8 series U chips. Hopefully lower power / batter battery / higher performance / more cores and cache.
From what I understand from previous road maps (and this may have changed) The Y chips version (and some dual core U chips too apparently) will be 10 nm Cannon Lake. Cannon Lake will only be the smaller/low wattage chips while Coffee Lake will be the larger and higher powered chips until everything is on the same process again with Ice Lake. It'll be interesting to see if Intel refers to both Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake at 8th Generation.
Likely for Ice Lake, but this announcement of quad core U chips changes things, there is no reason that 10nm Cannon Lake will not be quad core - only thing I can think is that Cannon lake will provide even lower power and same for Y versions.
One big difference in Cannon Lake - is that it suppose to have AVX-512 which appears to need additional power to run.
I think Intel accepted a while ago that 10 nm was going to be hard and will be sticking to small/low power chips (i.e. dual core Y & U series with GT2 graphics) for their 1st generation of chips on the 10 nm process and Coffee Lake was introduced to fill the gap for their larger/higher powered chips using a mature (and further refined) 14 nm process.
I am totally confused. I thought Coffee Lake was meant for desktop and Cannonlake for low power parts. But this suggests a top-to-bottom (or rather mainstream-to-bottom, since the top is the Skylake-X HEDT series) release of Coffee Lake. It also suggests, since there is no place left for Cannonlake (unless they deploy it for the ~5W SKUs) that it will be delayed at least until Q1 2018, possibly even early Q2 2018.
I know gamers would want to believe that Desktops - are top priority in Intel minds - but in reality mobile chips have become the priority.
My only thought is that Coffee Lake has become what Intel is calling Kaby Lake R which seems logically with Quad Core U chips and that Cannon Lake is limited test bed of ultra low power chips for 10nm
We likely see limited test bed of 10nm in 2017, but main stream 10nm will be Ice Lake in 2018
What I most curious about is the HQ version of this new process - likely could mean 6 or 8 core mobile or even more.
Lol, nice try Intel. GloFo/Samsung's 14nm process shines at low power. Can't wait to see the look on their faces when Raven ridge is out and power benchmarks are out, let alone 7nm Zen2 in the future.
Keep charging folks these ridiculous prices while you can.
I agree. They kept milking the market using old technology. They will gain a lead by releasing the 10nm parts next year but a few months after that, Samsung/Glo will release the 7nm parts. That it will mean that Intel has no leverage anymore. Intel's superior IPC can easily offset by pricing.
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jjj - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Funny how Intel was able to react to AMD's Raven Ridge, before Raven Ridge ships.ddriver - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Those chips were not designed to address Zen, it would take a lot longer that that.But that doesn't mean the SKUs are not introduced to address zen. Cherry pick the best CPUs, lower clocks, and there you have it.
ddriver - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Pretty much the same way that intel's HEDT was supposed to end at 12 cores, but TR forced intel to take chips out of the xeon line, rebrand them and offer them at a much lower price in a different market so intel doesn't end up looking like a second grade HEDT CPU maker.milkywayer - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Suddenly we see Intel become generous. Blessing us with two extra cores at the same price point after years.Amazing what a small kick in the ass from a competitor can achieve. Yeah,
I'm still salty over the $1700 price on 10core cpu last year.
Morawka - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
yeah and why would anyone buy the 10 core version for $1K this year? might as well wait another year and you'll get 10 core for $500jaydee - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
I don't think the chips were "designed to address Zen", I just think Intel has basically been holding back, taking their extra profits until there was potential of losing market share. They've known about Zen for a long time...smilingcrow - Saturday, August 19, 2017 - link
This is a new die so they aren't cherry picking in the same way that the 6 core chips being announced on Monday are new dies.These have been in development since before Zen was released.
Zen will impact the pricing of the desktop chips but not the laptops ones as AMD still have no competition.
R0H1T - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Funny you say that since RR isn't even scheduled to be released in the same quarter that CFL is supposed to appear in. Also the RR mobile parts should have a distinct advantage over their desktop counterparts, with just a single CCX.I'll let you decide what that might be, the Vega(?) IGP should wipe the floor with any Intel IGP ever, except the Mac oriented Irises. Then there's the secret SMT sauce which can yield as much as 70~75% speedup in certain benchmarks (AES) though it might also have something to with NUMA ~ www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1932?vs=1934
Lolimaster - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
It's the fear, Raven Riven pretty much kills all of the mid ranged gaming laptops with dgpu. When top of the line intel chips for mobile were the MQ quadcore, now it's mainstream for AMD standards.Tsu_brO - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Really not what I was wanting for changes in Intel's laptop line, but still better than the old 2/4 across all i3/i5/i7-U lineupMrSpadge - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
What were you expecting, then? Unicorns?1_rick - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Significant base speed drops. I wonder what the turbo speeds will be.A5 - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Well, the HQ 7x chips did +1G/+800M/+600M.I'd expect something less here given the lower TDP, maybe 800/600/400?
dullard - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Not much data has been leaked yet. But wikichip has the 8250U at 3.4 GHz turbo. That is the same turbo speed as the 7260U that it is replacing.https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectu...
Samus - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
The problem with those low base speeds is those are presumably the operating speed when all cores are being used. They will only run at full turbo on one (on i7, possibly two) cores, effectively keeping these dual core in demanding applications.However, there is no arguing the turbo speeds are significantly higher than the previous gen. For 15W CPU's these are impressive.
My real question is how well the graphics have improved.
lilmoe - Saturday, August 19, 2017 - link
Speedstep is the key in making low base clocks plausible. 1 max turbo core is enough for the applications of low power parts; you won't be servicing hundreds server clients from these parts.More cores is always better for low power parts (to an extent of course), even if your software stack is optimized and efficiently offloaded. In a multithreaded workload, 4 cores at reduced clocks would significantly reduce power consumption at the same performance level of 2 at max clocks. The difference is that more silicon and a bit larger die is needed, and poor Intel won't be making as much as they did before.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
cmon Ian...Do you really have the time and manpower to monitor every tech site in realtime to find these leak tidbits in such a timely fashion or are you tipped off by the likes of Intel marketing Dept?
The timely reporting of so many leaks from so many sources seems a bit too........timely!
desolation0 - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
It's not exactly hard to set up a notification for when a new tech leak happens. Then factor in having it be your day job to find and report these sorts of things. Not to mention a network of other folks doing the same.Ian Cutress - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
^ This. When you have the right feeds in the right places, as it is my job to do, you can jump on breaking news.Samus - Saturday, August 19, 2017 - link
Your feeds make me hungrydullard - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
cmon Bullwinkle, you could at least attempt to hide your bias by also complaining in Anandtech AMD pre-launch drip pipeline posts:http://www.anandtech.com/show/11689/amd-threadripp...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11678/amd-threadripp...
SaolDan - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
I5 with 4/8? 4/4 sounds more likely.Rictorhell - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
These are the parts that go into the type of devices that I am usually more interested in these days but the performance would have to increase significantly for me to really get excited for these parts and the battery life on the devices that use these parts would have to be AT LEAST 6 or 7 hours, minimum.Again, Intel, Lenovo, HP, whoever, some of us measure battery life with our brightness turned all the way up, we need devices that can last for hours without us having to make a ton of compromises in return.
A lot of sites do measure battery life with a certain percentage of brightness or a certain nit, but I think manufacturers need to work on coming up with display technology that is bright AND at least a bit more energy efficient than a lot of current devices that are out there right now.
HStewart - Thursday, August 24, 2017 - link
I think this is why we see so low based Frequencies on these chips - but still have high turbo - I have a Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it will dynamically change frequency based on load - this way during normal operations or idle, it runs at lower frequency and when in demand - runs at higher frequency - so if under higher demand load, it like uses more battery.hasta666 - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Everyone can thank AMD and the hype they created with TR. So much hype that I bought one myself, 10 years after my current build (i7 920). I was convinced in a fews. They brought something new at last. Good for customers in the end.Lolimaster - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
If you encode in x264 10bit or x265 the improve over that i7 920 should be criminal.HStewart - Thursday, August 24, 2017 - link
I would think Intel has had plans for quad core U chips for a long while - maybe for X series chips can thank AMD - but I would think this mobile effort has been in works.One interesting thought - is news of Atom C3xxx series including 16 core server chip at 35 watts - what if they research going mobile with a low power - high core count. No GPU which could explain why they could do it
HStewart - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Keep in mind these are U chips - and having quad core on these chips is going to be nice. Hopefully Intel designs in a mode to use only half the core and go at higher speeds - or with Hyperthreading is off.So are these CPU's Coffee Lake U chips and I be curious if they have a Y version.
So it be interesting to see difference between 10nm and 14nm 8 series U chips. Hopefully lower power / batter battery / higher performance / more cores and cache.
bodonnell - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
From what I understand from previous road maps (and this may have changed) The Y chips version (and some dual core U chips too apparently) will be 10 nm Cannon Lake. Cannon Lake will only be the smaller/low wattage chips while Coffee Lake will be the larger and higher powered chips until everything is on the same process again with Ice Lake. It'll be interesting to see if Intel refers to both Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake at 8th Generation.HStewart - Thursday, August 24, 2017 - link
Likely for Ice Lake, but this announcement of quad core U chips changes things, there is no reason that 10nm Cannon Lake will not be quad core - only thing I can think is that Cannon lake will provide even lower power and same for Y versions.One big difference in Cannon Lake - is that it suppose to have AVX-512 which appears to need additional power to run.
zodiacfml - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Nice. I thought we are going to wait for CannonLake for 15W quad core CPUs. However, CannonLake is less than a year away. I'd probably wait.Gondalf - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
In my knowledge Cannonlake will be dual core onlybodonnell - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
I think Intel accepted a while ago that 10 nm was going to be hard and will be sticking to small/low power chips (i.e. dual core Y & U series with GT2 graphics) for their 1st generation of chips on the 10 nm process and Coffee Lake was introduced to fill the gap for their larger/higher powered chips using a mature (and further refined) 14 nm process.Santoval - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
I am totally confused. I thought Coffee Lake was meant for desktop and Cannonlake for low power parts. But this suggests a top-to-bottom (or rather mainstream-to-bottom, since the top is the Skylake-X HEDT series) release of Coffee Lake. It also suggests, since there is no place left for Cannonlake (unless they deploy it for the ~5W SKUs) that it will be delayed at least until Q1 2018, possibly even early Q2 2018.HStewart - Thursday, August 24, 2017 - link
I know gamers would want to believe that Desktops - are top priority in Intel minds - but in reality mobile chips have become the priority.My only thought is that Coffee Lake has become what Intel is calling Kaby Lake R which seems logically with Quad Core U chips and that Cannon Lake is limited test bed of ultra low power chips for 10nm
We likely see limited test bed of 10nm in 2017, but main stream 10nm will be Ice Lake in 2018
What I most curious about is the HQ version of this new process - likely could mean 6 or 8 core mobile or even more.
Lolimaster - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
Ask yourselves for how many more years intel was willing to sell the scam of 2cores for over $100 on desktop and worse call them i5-i7 for mobile.AMD destroyed their financial agenda overnight. Praise and adore Jim Keller-
Morawka - Friday, August 18, 2017 - link
i still cannot fathom how intel gets away with charging $400 for a dual core cpu with such a small die. Small die is supposed to equal cheap price!zodiacfml - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link
I agree. It is the same size Apple's SoCs. Consider the price of an iPhone SE.watzupken - Saturday, August 19, 2017 - link
I have my doubts how well will a quad core do with a meagre 15W. Not to mention that the 15W needs to be shared with the integrated GPU.lilmoe - Saturday, August 19, 2017 - link
Lol, nice try Intel. GloFo/Samsung's 14nm process shines at low power. Can't wait to see the look on their faces when Raven ridge is out and power benchmarks are out, let alone 7nm Zen2 in the future.Keep charging folks these ridiculous prices while you can.
zodiacfml - Monday, August 21, 2017 - link
I agree. They kept milking the market using old technology. They will gain a lead by releasing the 10nm parts next year but a few months after that, Samsung/Glo will release the 7nm parts. That it will mean that Intel has no leverage anymore. Intel's superior IPC can easily offset by pricing.Ian Cutress - Friday, August 25, 2017 - link
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