LOL Asus. "Hey, let's get rid of the video output ports to make room on the IO plate!" "Great idea, what vent pattern should we replace them with" "Vents?! Slap a flat plate with an ASUS logo on there and let them burn!"
Do they blow the dust off them off periodically? Because a chassis with filters is the best way to keep dust buildup to a minimum, and knocking the dust off a filter is quick and easy to do without interfering with a running system.
The few people I knew who did mining don’t care, really. They have their mobos in a carved out plastic beer crate and stuffed away in a corner. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not quite sure how they go around the law to offer shorter warranty than what's mandatory.
The big problem with these cards is that the resale value is 0 so why would anyone buy them? If they offer specialized drivers that boost perf and efficiency, it would work but otherwise it's a money losing buy.
The minimum warranty period is a consumer protection measure. One could make the argument that cryptomining doesn't fall into the category of consumer use.
If you sell them in a supermarket where consumer devices are sold, yes, they are part of consumer category. In my country you have 2 years warranty if you buy in a retailer as a normal consumer and 1 year if you buy for business (using an account that allows for not paying VAT). 1 year is guaranteed to anyone buying anywhere.
I'm only familiar with Germany (and the EU) way of doing warranty. Here we have a 2 year standard warranty (Gewährleistung) which applies to the retailer. For used / refurbished goods this can be reduced to 1 year. That warranty (Gewährleistung) is only good for about 6 months though, because of the burden of proof shifting after that. The warranty of the manufacturer (Garantie) is not dictated by law. It is a voluntary service the manufacturer offers to the consumer and is dependant on several things and can be declined if the terms of service have been violated. It sucks that there doesn't seem to be a good way to differentiate between these two very different forms of warranty in English.
Even if you can't make that argument, just don't sell in those countries. Miners will import the cards.
Oh who am I kidding, most of these will go directly to Chinese mining farms. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Chinese GPU vendors own a farming subsidiary or two.
It seems like these cards are just output port-reduced versions of existing cards with no special sauce used to improve performance. In the case of the GPUs with a display output, it might be an inexpensive way to get a gaming GPU if you only need one DVI and don't care about mfg. warranties.
I like how the marketing dances around the fact, that this is completly useless for bitcoin and can be useful for some lesser-known-coins and some obscure-coins.
But Mining P106 looks like a nice choice for basic deep learning.
Newsflash, bud, using GPUs or CPUs to mine Bitcoin has been a completely inefficient usage of electricity since the first ASIC was specifically to mine Bitcoin. This has been true for _several_ years.
Due to Bitcoin's current difficulty curve and the fact that every other miner worth their salt is mining with much more efficient ASICs, you're hard pressed to make even meager gains over a several month period mining with GPUs, you're more likely losing money due to general wear you're placing on the GPU.
The video card demand on the market exists due to secondary cryptocurrencies like Etherium, which ASICs have not (and possibly may not be able to) been developed for. Bitcoin, being the most popular cryptocurrency, is commonly traded into as the "gold standard" for cryptocurrencies, and then exchanged for just about any other currency the user desires, or spent outright on Bitcoin enabled exchanges (which more than likely wouldn't accept Etherium outright, such as Newegg who accepts payment in Bitcoin.). Because Bitcoin is used in this manner, as secondary coins inflate in value, so too does the Bitcoin.
> Newsflash, bud, using GPUs or CPUs to mine Bitcoin has been a completely inefficient usage of electricity since the first ASIC was specifically to mine Bitcoin. This has been true for _several_ years.
How's that news? Why would you think satai doesn't know this? You come off as condescending, which doesn't suit you (or anyone).
His point regarding deep learning is valid. Yours is simply a
I can't see them selling many of these unless they're noticeably less than standard video cards. Why? Pretty much every crypocoin miner's backup plan is to sell off the cards and these wouldn't be worth very much on the secondary market, especially if coin prices are down, which is the primary reason most people sell off their cards.
exactly my thoughts, why would miners bother with this except it would be like 50% price. And I would also expect more from Anandtech to question this strategy rather than being it pure info article. What I mean is, how exactly does this [miner cards] help anyone? If there is problem with supply how new miner cards solve this if they are same board minus video out? Same chip from AMD/NV , possibly same PCB etc, , so if initial shortage is coming from GP106 , Polaris10 low volumes how does this change?? If AMD/NV can produce "10k" chips which are now insta-bought by miners and gamers are left with none, now there will be same "10k" chips but 5k will be sold as miners and remaining 5k will be sold as "normal" but still bought by miners - that was late to get hands on miner card... Looks like bullshit to me. If the mining craze fall down over night there will be still tons of (mining) cards in warehouse that will have zero value and oems can throw them into trash. Also it could have negative impact on second hand market as after bubble burst there wont be anymore cheap cards if miners went with mining edition...
@vladx: its irrelevant that they are cheaper - to only inflated price (btw our local prices aren't inflated like newegg etc, only slightly but there is no stock). Price increased because lack of supply, hence my question how this solve anything.
There might be a tiny niche usage for headless GPUs once they're retired from mining chores. I'm not sure about the details of how this would all work out, but such graphics adapters might be useful for Steam's in home streaming feature. Between that and VNC or RDP, you could manage a gaming desktop and sling some of your games over network wires to a different PC so the lack of outputs may not be a problem as long as Steam and the games in question aren't befuddled by the lack of a physical output and associated monitor.
A bit late! Mining now will give you 1/200th of the profit you'd have gotten before. With advancements in hashing power and a slightly higher value of the coins, maybe that's 1/100th or so.
About the only good reason to buy one is availability. As for selling graphics cards that have been running flat out 24/7 for months or years, good luck with buying a used card.
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edzieba - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
LOL Asus. "Hey, let's get rid of the video output ports to make room on the IO plate!" "Great idea, what vent pattern should we replace them with" "Vents?! Slap a flat plate with an ASUS logo on there and let them burn!"Cellar Door - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
Yeah, I'm sure this actually sounded funny in your head. While the point of them being headless just completely flew over your had.Nagorak - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
It's not so that the cards resemble their owners? Or are they only brainless?Drumsticks - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
I think his point was that they could have made additional vents for better exhaust airflow than just putting an ASUS logo on it.ddriver - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
ADOYATC9001 - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
I don't know any miners who put their cards in a case for that to matter....Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
Do they blow the dust off them off periodically? Because a chassis with filters is the best way to keep dust buildup to a minimum, and knocking the dust off a filter is quick and easy to do without interfering with a running system.xype - Friday, June 30, 2017 - link
The few people I knew who did mining don’t care, really. They have their mobos in a carved out plastic beer crate and stuffed away in a corner. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯jjj - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
Not quite sure how they go around the law to offer shorter warranty than what's mandatory.The big problem with these cards is that the resale value is 0 so why would anyone buy them? If they offer specialized drivers that boost perf and efficiency, it would work but otherwise it's a money losing buy.
nathanddrews - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
What law are you referring to?DanNeely - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
There're some countries with a statutory minimum warranty of several years for any non-consumable product.Hul8 - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
The minimum warranty period is a consumer protection measure. One could make the argument that cryptomining doesn't fall into the category of consumer use.CiccioB - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
If you sell them in a supermarket where consumer devices are sold, yes, they are part of consumer category.In my country you have 2 years warranty if you buy in a retailer as a normal consumer and 1 year if you buy for business (using an account that allows for not paying VAT).
1 year is guaranteed to anyone buying anywhere.
Death666Angel - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
I'm only familiar with Germany (and the EU) way of doing warranty. Here we have a 2 year standard warranty (Gewährleistung) which applies to the retailer. For used / refurbished goods this can be reduced to 1 year. That warranty (Gewährleistung) is only good for about 6 months though, because of the burden of proof shifting after that.The warranty of the manufacturer (Garantie) is not dictated by law. It is a voluntary service the manufacturer offers to the consumer and is dependant on several things and can be declined if the terms of service have been violated. It sucks that there doesn't seem to be a good way to differentiate between these two very different forms of warranty in English.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
Even if you can't make that argument, just don't sell in those countries. Miners will import the cards.Oh who am I kidding, most of these will go directly to Chinese mining farms. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Chinese GPU vendors own a farming subsidiary or two.
vladx - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
Simple, they don't. In my country these cards have already been listed and they have a 1 year warranty, the minimum required by law.BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
It seems like these cards are just output port-reduced versions of existing cards with no special sauce used to improve performance. In the case of the GPUs with a display output, it might be an inexpensive way to get a gaming GPU if you only need one DVI and don't care about mfg. warranties.satai - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
I like how the marketing dances around the fact, that this is completly useless for bitcoin and can be useful for some lesser-known-coins and some obscure-coins.But Mining P106 looks like a nice choice for basic deep learning.
Charlie22911 - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
A good choice for folding rigs too I'd imagine!JoeyJoJo123 - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
>that this is completly useless for bitcoinNewsflash, bud, using GPUs or CPUs to mine Bitcoin has been a completely inefficient usage of electricity since the first ASIC was specifically to mine Bitcoin. This has been true for _several_ years.
Due to Bitcoin's current difficulty curve and the fact that every other miner worth their salt is mining with much more efficient ASICs, you're hard pressed to make even meager gains over a several month period mining with GPUs, you're more likely losing money due to general wear you're placing on the GPU.
The video card demand on the market exists due to secondary cryptocurrencies like Etherium, which ASICs have not (and possibly may not be able to) been developed for. Bitcoin, being the most popular cryptocurrency, is commonly traded into as the "gold standard" for cryptocurrencies, and then exchanged for just about any other currency the user desires, or spent outright on Bitcoin enabled exchanges (which more than likely wouldn't accept Etherium outright, such as Newegg who accepts payment in Bitcoin.). Because Bitcoin is used in this manner, as secondary coins inflate in value, so too does the Bitcoin.
jvl - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
> Newsflash, bud, using GPUs or CPUs to mine Bitcoin has been a completely inefficient usage of electricity since the first ASIC was specifically to mine Bitcoin. This has been true for _several_ years.How's that news? Why would you think satai doesn't know this? You come off as condescending, which doesn't suit you (or anyone).
His point regarding deep learning is valid. Yours is simply a
>> cool story bro <<
JoeyJoJo123 - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
>Hi I don't know how to make a counterargument, so I'll simply attack the supposed tone that I'm reading your post in.>> insert fresh memes here <<
[spoiler]Thinking to self: Man I sure won that internet argument![/spoiler]
Flunk - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
I can't see them selling many of these unless they're noticeably less than standard video cards. Why? Pretty much every crypocoin miner's backup plan is to sell off the cards and these wouldn't be worth very much on the secondary market, especially if coin prices are down, which is the primary reason most people sell off their cards.lordken - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
exactly my thoughts, why would miners bother with this except it would be like 50% price. And I would also expect more from Anandtech to question this strategy rather than being it pure info article.What I mean is, how exactly does this [miner cards] help anyone? If there is problem with supply how new miner cards solve this if they are same board minus video out? Same chip from AMD/NV , possibly same PCB etc, , so if initial shortage is coming from GP106 , Polaris10 low volumes how does this change?? If AMD/NV can produce "10k" chips which are now insta-bought by miners and gamers are left with none, now there will be same "10k" chips but 5k will be sold as miners and remaining 5k will be sold as "normal" but still bought by miners - that was late to get hands on miner card...
Looks like bullshit to me. If the mining craze fall down over night there will be still tons of (mining) cards in warehouse that will have zero value and oems can throw them into trash.
Also it could have negative impact on second hand market as after bubble burst there wont be anymore cheap cards if miners went with mining edition...
vladx - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
They are a lot cheaper compared to the now inflated price of the gaming versions, around $200 less.lordken - Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - link
@vladx: its irrelevant that they are cheaper - to only inflated price (btw our local prices aren't inflated like newegg etc, only slightly but there is no stock).Price increased because lack of supply, hence my question how this solve anything.
peterfares - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
These are so dumb. Cards become unprofitable for mining pretty quickly and without any video outputs they have no resale value to gamers.BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - link
There might be a tiny niche usage for headless GPUs once they're retired from mining chores. I'm not sure about the details of how this would all work out, but such graphics adapters might be useful for Steam's in home streaming feature. Between that and VNC or RDP, you could manage a gaming desktop and sling some of your games over network wires to a different PC so the lack of outputs may not be a problem as long as Steam and the games in question aren't befuddled by the lack of a physical output and associated monitor.mkozakewich - Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - link
A bit late! Mining now will give you 1/200th of the profit you'd have gotten before. With advancements in hashing power and a slightly higher value of the coins, maybe that's 1/100th or so.johnpombrio - Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - link
About the only good reason to buy one is availability. As for selling graphics cards that have been running flat out 24/7 for months or years, good luck with buying a used card.