The 10.6" model looks like trash to me...1 usb port, TFT screen, m3 processor and eMMC, which needs to DIAF in 2017.
The 12" is only marginally better, two USB ports, better screen, an actual SSD. Hopefully it uses a U processor and not the formerly M, now I-5. But who knows.
Also wondering what the 4gb+xx Storage is....is that Optane cache? Either way these need to be cheap because their specs are significantly worse than a Surface Pro 4 or Acer Switch Alpha
It is obviously entry level stuff. They still sell windoze 10 tablets with 1 and 2 gigs of ram. 4 is actually decent for regular users. This is not a gaming machine or a content creation workstation.
eMMC can actually be quite fast, certainly much faster than the HDDs many people are still using.
So your complaints are entirely ungrounded. Prices are not yet available, but my guess is this will cost less than an iFad while being significantly more useful.
Other than the m3 bashing (if Acer can keep it passively cooled, I think it'd be ok), I think his comment is spot on. I have an Asus T100 w/ 2GB RAM and since updating to Win 10, the performance went from 'bad but still usable' to abysmal. 4GB is the absolute bare minimum for W10. And in my limited experience, eMMC is complete garbage and a major regression over the SATA HDDs in older netbooks, which you could at least swap out for SSD. 1 USB is a deal-breaker as well- this trend needs to die or stay Apple-exclusive.
Windows 10 takes about 1.3 GB by default, so 2 GB is the "absolute minimum" for good performance. Of course you need 4 GB if you want to run more than a couple things at once, or Chrome. (I'd consider 4 GB to be "acceptable" but not "good".)
Windows 10 takes pretty close to 4GB of RAM. I recently did a netbook update for a friend from windows 8 to windows 10, full restore and all, and after driver updates and an antivirus the laptop HDD was running close to 90% trying to offload RAM to HDD, as it didn't have enough RAM.
At least it correct the TabPro S mistake. A micro SD card slot. But screen resolution are major let down for both models. Where is all those QHD OLED panel they use on android tablet ??
"Both units will come with Windows 10, support for the next generation S Pen using a new 0.7mm tip and in ‘screen off’ mode which allows for note taking without the display being on." Read dude.
It allows better heat dissipation (thus better processor) and a thinner form-factor, so it's about tradeoffs. Different people will have different preferences.
For the specs of the smaller model, I wouldn't be surprised if they're aiming for a $499 to $599 price tag. But I wish they opted for UFS storage. Oh well... Intel makes it hard for sensible compromises. If Core M was more reasonably priced, I'm sure Sammy would've opted for both UFS and AMOLED. Guess we'll have to wait for low power Ryzen APUs and/or full Windows 10 on ARM for prices to actually allow OEMs to be more competitive in other design compromises.
Your days are numbered, Intel. Keep milking while you can.
I hope you are trolling, because Ryzen for stuff like this is laughable. Not only will no tablet maker use the chipset because of licencing and exclusive Intel deals, but the price would be as much or more.
I think lilmoe's thinking of Raven Ridge, the Ryzen-based APUs scheduled to arrive some time in H2. No doubt there'll be ULV versions, at 15W or below - the question is wether they'll stop at 15W or go lower. And considering HEDT Ryzen prices, I'd be _very_ surprised if the ULV versions didn't turn out to be significantly cheaper than Core m. Also, licensing? How does that stop tablet makers from using Ryzen? And exclusive deals only last so long when faced with serious competition, unless Intel's back to its anti-trust-violating antics again.
Margins on Core m chips are not small - they're priced the same as regular mobile chips. The three core m3/"core i5" 7.5W chips in Kaby lake all have $281 tray prices (for trays of 1000 units for OEM customers). For a ~50mm2 die. That's definitely not low margin. Not by a long shot. That's $50 from an 8-core Ryzen chip. I'm willing to bet quite a bit that AMD is willing and able to sell low-power mobile chips for less than this. Atom, on the other hand, is low margin. But this isn't Atom.
The only info on Raven Ridge is that they'll be 35+ W AM4 socket desktop APUs. I see no rumours of low-power BGA AMD parts to compete with Core M. I hope there will be, as Intel's monopoly is killing 2 in 1s, but I think Windows on ARM is going to be our saviour here, not AMD.
Ryzen in a tablet like this would be a HUGE deal. We could finally get away from the 2-core stranglehold Intel has had this form factor locked into. I was feeling set on buying the Surface Pro 5 once it came out, but if Ryzen APUs are only 6 months away then perhaps it's best to wait and see.
I'm continually amazed at Samsung's inability to make an actually attractive industrial design. They've been at it for so long, yet they have _never_ made a product where I've actually thought "Oh, that looks nice." This keeps that trend going. The whole thing speaks of bleh and plastic and mediocrity.
Specs for the 12" are okay, though. Although I take issue with only providing boost clocks in the specs (quite misleading IMO), they're at least using the 15W i5-7200u (only KBL chip with a 3.1GHz clock speed, whether base or boost, except for the 28W 7267U). EMMC in the 10" though? Bleh.
Why? You want them to change a good design so that fools would claim they're "copying" someone else? What's wrong with the current design? IMO, Apple and Samsung make the least polarizing designs out of all OEMs. No one minds holding a device made by them, and you can tell them apart from a mile away. That's what good design is supposed to be.
I've seen LOTS of people who didn't like MS Surface designs, for a reason or another. But never have I encountered anyone who doesn't like something lately designed by Samsung. That being said, no one cares for the _practicality_ of said designs, unfortunately. People paying premium prices want their stuff to just look good and "premium". Others wanting more practical stuff won't consider these price ranges at all. That's what the market has proven over and over.
I love the AMOLED and HDR capabilities paired with the stylus. That's something we haven't seen before in a Windows tablet. However, the low amount of RAM and weak dual-core CPU just don't deliver enough performance in the 12" model. I don't see myself buying one of these.
AMOLED, HDR, stylus and keyboard included, combined with a state of the art CPU - sounds like the 12" model could be a serious Surface contender if priced right and nothing is broken.
Yes, but it'll never be able to touch the performance of the i7 and Iris graphics on the Surface Pro devices. I'm looking for the whole package. Samsung is close, but not quite there.
Oooo. Can I finally get a good replacement for my Surface 3 (non-pro)? Core M would be a nice upgrade to the Atom x7 in that 10 inch form factor, but what I really want to know is if the eMMC NAND would fare better than the crap NAND they put on the Surface. The NAND is really the Surface's (non-pro to reiterate) glaring weakness, and I would really enjoy one that booted up much faster. Once it's up it's a blast to use as my main tablet, but by god it takes forever to boot, and I remember installing Windows 10 Anniversary edition (or any big update) was a huge PITA, where it would take over 24 hours to install the damn thing.
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Kakti - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
The 10.6" model looks like trash to me...1 usb port, TFT screen, m3 processor and eMMC, which needs to DIAF in 2017.The 12" is only marginally better, two USB ports, better screen, an actual SSD. Hopefully it uses a U processor and not the formerly M, now I-5. But who knows.
Also wondering what the 4gb+xx Storage is....is that Optane cache? Either way these need to be cheap because their specs are significantly worse than a Surface Pro 4 or Acer Switch Alpha
Kakti - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
Whoops the 4gb is ram, not octane cacheddriver - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
It is obviously entry level stuff. They still sell windoze 10 tablets with 1 and 2 gigs of ram. 4 is actually decent for regular users. This is not a gaming machine or a content creation workstation.eMMC can actually be quite fast, certainly much faster than the HDDs many people are still using.
So your complaints are entirely ungrounded. Prices are not yet available, but my guess is this will cost less than an iFad while being significantly more useful.
Octane cache? U mad?
hybrid2d4x4 - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Other than the m3 bashing (if Acer can keep it passively cooled, I think it'd be ok), I think his comment is spot on. I have an Asus T100 w/ 2GB RAM and since updating to Win 10, the performance went from 'bad but still usable' to abysmal. 4GB is the absolute bare minimum for W10. And in my limited experience, eMMC is complete garbage and a major regression over the SATA HDDs in older netbooks, which you could at least swap out for SSD. 1 USB is a deal-breaker as well- this trend needs to die or stay Apple-exclusive.mkozakewich - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link
Windows 10 takes about 1.3 GB by default, so 2 GB is the "absolute minimum" for good performance. Of course you need 4 GB if you want to run more than a couple things at once, or Chrome. (I'd consider 4 GB to be "acceptable" but not "good".)Sushisamurai - Thursday, April 6, 2017 - link
Windows 10 takes pretty close to 4GB of RAM. I recently did a netbook update for a friend from windows 8 to windows 10, full restore and all, and after driver updates and an antivirus the laptop HDD was running close to 90% trying to offload RAM to HDD, as it didn't have enough RAM.satai - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
Edit - it seems the Core i5 is a U-series product. That's 15W normal, or 7W/9.5W in cTDP down mode.Tech-addicted - Wednesday, June 7, 2017 - link
At least it correct the TabPro S mistake. A micro SD card slot. But screen resolution are major let down for both models. Where is all those QHD OLED panel they use on android tablet ??Michael Bay - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
If only it had a stylus and was priced well.bubblyboo - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
"Both units will come with Windows 10, support for the next generation S Pen using a new 0.7mm tip and in ‘screen off’ mode which allows for note taking without the display being on."Read dude.
damianrobertjones - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
Support for... .Will the box contain the stylus?
WorldWithoutMadness - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
He is Michael Bay, he only has attention to explosion.WorldWithoutMadness - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
He is Michael Bay, he only has attention to explosion.WorldWithoutMadness - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
He is Michael Bay, he only has attention to explosion.vladx - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
10" version is nice, 12" is overkill for such a product.mkozakewich - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link
It allows better heat dissipation (thus better processor) and a thinner form-factor, so it's about tradeoffs. Different people will have different preferences.lilmoe - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - link
For the specs of the smaller model, I wouldn't be surprised if they're aiming for a $499 to $599 price tag. But I wish they opted for UFS storage. Oh well... Intel makes it hard for sensible compromises. If Core M was more reasonably priced, I'm sure Sammy would've opted for both UFS and AMOLED. Guess we'll have to wait for low power Ryzen APUs and/or full Windows 10 on ARM for prices to actually allow OEMs to be more competitive in other design compromises.Your days are numbered, Intel. Keep milking while you can.
imaheadcase - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
I hope you are trolling, because Ryzen for stuff like this is laughable. Not only will no tablet maker use the chipset because of licencing and exclusive Intel deals, but the price would be as much or more.Valantar - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
I think lilmoe's thinking of Raven Ridge, the Ryzen-based APUs scheduled to arrive some time in H2. No doubt there'll be ULV versions, at 15W or below - the question is wether they'll stop at 15W or go lower. And considering HEDT Ryzen prices, I'd be _very_ surprised if the ULV versions didn't turn out to be significantly cheaper than Core m. Also, licensing? How does that stop tablet makers from using Ryzen? And exclusive deals only last so long when faced with serious competition, unless Intel's back to its anti-trust-violating antics again.Murloc - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
margins are much lower in this stuff so don't expect the same price differences as with ryzen vs HEDT.They might just as well cost the same.
Valantar - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Margins on Core m chips are not small - they're priced the same as regular mobile chips. The three core m3/"core i5" 7.5W chips in Kaby lake all have $281 tray prices (for trays of 1000 units for OEM customers). For a ~50mm2 die. That's definitely not low margin. Not by a long shot. That's $50 from an 8-core Ryzen chip. I'm willing to bet quite a bit that AMD is willing and able to sell low-power mobile chips for less than this. Atom, on the other hand, is low margin. But this isn't Atom.Lolimaster - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
Bobcat and Jaguar based APU's from AMD cost less than "top of the line" Atom's who were still shi*tty vs the AMD offerings.mkozakewich - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link
Not true, Atom has far better thermal and power-consumption properties.Meteor2 - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 - link
The only info on Raven Ridge is that they'll be 35+ W AM4 socket desktop APUs. I see no rumours of low-power BGA AMD parts to compete with Core M. I hope there will be, as Intel's monopoly is killing 2 in 1s, but I think Windows on ARM is going to be our saviour here, not AMD.Diji1 - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
It isn't even out yet and he's claiming victory.If only he'd been around for all the other times AMD overpromised a whole lot ;)
BigDragon - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Ryzen in a tablet like this would be a HUGE deal. We could finally get away from the 2-core stranglehold Intel has had this form factor locked into. I was feeling set on buying the Surface Pro 5 once it came out, but if Ryzen APUs are only 6 months away then perhaps it's best to wait and see.Lolimaster - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
I can see a more efficiency oriented Raven Ridge APU with 4c/4t.Lolimaster - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
Raven Ridge can banish intel from Apple iMac/MacPro/Macbook altogether.Valantar - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
I'm continually amazed at Samsung's inability to make an actually attractive industrial design. They've been at it for so long, yet they have _never_ made a product where I've actually thought "Oh, that looks nice." This keeps that trend going. The whole thing speaks of bleh and plastic and mediocrity.Specs for the 12" are okay, though. Although I take issue with only providing boost clocks in the specs (quite misleading IMO), they're at least using the 15W i5-7200u (only KBL chip with a 3.1GHz clock speed, whether base or boost, except for the 28W 7267U). EMMC in the 10" though? Bleh.
lilmoe - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Why? You want them to change a good design so that fools would claim they're "copying" someone else? What's wrong with the current design? IMO, Apple and Samsung make the least polarizing designs out of all OEMs. No one minds holding a device made by them, and you can tell them apart from a mile away. That's what good design is supposed to be.I've seen LOTS of people who didn't like MS Surface designs, for a reason or another. But never have I encountered anyone who doesn't like something lately designed by Samsung. That being said, no one cares for the _practicality_ of said designs, unfortunately. People paying premium prices want their stuff to just look good and "premium". Others wanting more practical stuff won't consider these price ranges at all. That's what the market has proven over and over.
MrSpadge - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
I don't like the Samsung phone design - their edges are so round. Prefer e.g. my Lumia 950.BigDragon - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Disappointing.I love the AMOLED and HDR capabilities paired with the stylus. That's something we haven't seen before in a Windows tablet. However, the low amount of RAM and weak dual-core CPU just don't deliver enough performance in the 12" model. I don't see myself buying one of these.
MrSpadge - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
AMOLED, HDR, stylus and keyboard included, combined with a state of the art CPU - sounds like the 12" model could be a serious Surface contender if priced right and nothing is broken.BigDragon - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Yes, but it'll never be able to touch the performance of the i7 and Iris graphics on the Surface Pro devices. I'm looking for the whole package. Samsung is close, but not quite there.faiakes - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Is the 12" model meant to replace the 12" Tab Pro S?metayoshi - Monday, February 27, 2017 - link
Oooo. Can I finally get a good replacement for my Surface 3 (non-pro)? Core M would be a nice upgrade to the Atom x7 in that 10 inch form factor, but what I really want to know is if the eMMC NAND would fare better than the crap NAND they put on the Surface. The NAND is really the Surface's (non-pro to reiterate) glaring weakness, and I would really enjoy one that booted up much faster. Once it's up it's a blast to use as my main tablet, but by god it takes forever to boot, and I remember installing Windows 10 Anniversary edition (or any big update) was a huge PITA, where it would take over 24 hours to install the damn thing.Dug - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
"The 10.6-inch version will use a 1920x1280 TFT LCD display"That would be fantastic if it were true.
hybrid2d4x4 - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
Missing the only important acronym on LCD displays though: IPS (or PLS, or anything just as long as it isn't TN)Lolimaster - Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - link
FFW a few months a we can have this device with a 4c/4t Ryzen APU.