Hey MSI: If you're going to go to the trouble of putting out a mATX Xeon board, would it be too much trouble to put the x16 slot in a position that a double-slot GPU cooler lets us actually use the other slots you're providing? Apparently it is. Try harder.
I don't get that design choice. Many mATX and even full ATX boards like the old Asus X58's had a PCIe 1x slot above the PCIe 16x to allow use during SLI configurations... Very strange they borked those slots. With a blower GPU you can perhaps use slot #3 without blocking airflow to the card.
LGA-2011 socket and 4 DIMM slots on mini-ITX are... I'm not gonna say impossible since I can't prove it but I've seen some designs that attempted it and it's gonna be tricky as hell at best.
Xeon E3 is not for LGA-2011, but for 1150/51 IIRC. Also LGA-2011 + 4 RAM sockets are available from ASrock (RAM in SO-DIMM format). I'm looking into more cheaper DIMM and LGA-1150/51 socket.
What is encouraging these motherboard makers to go with the C232? It's a horrible chipset, especially for a gaming board. The B150 is a better chipset, and cheaper. So what if the C232 supports Xeon E3 v5. People aren't going to game on a Xeon if they had a choice, and the C232 takes away the only reason to get a Xeon E3: integrated video. C232 is good for small business servers, but no gaming machines.
There is a very clear market for people like me. Workstation user and gaming enthusiast that work from home. We want/need Xeons for the Cores, ECC and other workstation features. But we also like to play games when we aren't working. Why should I have to buy 2 computers to get that? Yes you can just as wel use a regular workstation class board, but that has always been an option. Now we also get access to features like M.2 and other more gaming/enthusiast level features. I'm all for it!
If it were a workstation board, it would use the C236 chipset, not the C232. The C232 chipset is a low end server chipset. It doesn't allow the use of the integrated graphics of the Xeon chip, doesn't allow for splitting the x16 slot for more expansion, has severe USB port limitations, and is very short on storage options. The "workstation" justification doesn't fly. C232 just doesn't work for workstations. C236 is for workstations, and the extra $15 for that chipset wouldn't be any issue for someone looking for a workstation.
This and the AsRock board are gaming boards, with severe limitations on graphics and storage, which flies in the face of gaming boards. They don't make any sense. The only people who would use such boards are people who want to use the Xeon for the ECC support, but without the integrated graphics, only have one slot for a discrete graphics card, don't want to use NVMe storage, and don't have more than 6 USB and SATA devices. That's just stupid. Such a system would be extremely limited.
@dgingeri: "C236 is for workstations, and the extra $15 for that chipset wouldn't be any issue for someone looking for a workstation."
The price difference of $15 is just for the chipset. Once you add in cost of components, more complex routing potentially adding more layers to the board, etc. to take advantage of the extra features, the cost difference grows to something like the difference between a B-series and and H-Series motherboard. That said, we should probably throw on a little more for the extra quality and verification testing that workstation boards typically have. Still, at the end of the day, I think it is a cost most people looking for a workstation would pay.
If someone truly needed a Xeon workstation, cost would not be such an issue that an extra $100 would make a difference. If $100 would make a different for that person, then they shouldn't even be looking at Xeon. (Workstation video cards cost from $200 to $3000 more than their desktop equals, simply for the professional certifications. Plus, C232 doesn't allow the use of integrated graphics from the CPU.) In addition, going with a C232 board would cancel out every single advantage of Xeon E3 except ECC memory, and that isn't enough to make up for the extra $200-300 they'd be spending on a Xeon system.
C232 isn't any good for a workstation board, let alone a workstation/gaming board. It IS good for a low end server, where the video card would hook to a single PCIe lane from the chipset and a RAID controller or HBA would hook to the one slot from the processor. (Although, without being able to split the lanes on the CPU, it would be restricted to using 4 lanes from the chipset for networking, which would be restrictive.) It could potentially be useful for low end but plentiful blades in a VM cluster. C232 has a very narrow market, and workstation/gaming is NOT it.
You wrote that you want xeon for more cores etc, but what advantage in core count does a xeon in this socket gives you ? it is basically a Locked 4C/8T i7 with lower clocks and ECC. Maybe on 2011-V3 you can get much higher core count on the most expensive xeon vs most expensive Extreme edition i7. but on socket 1151 the xeons and this chipset are nothing special, and the fact they are so locked to server chipsets compared to last gen where people could run xeons on decent consumer xeons makes this choice even worse.
You have completely missed the point of these specifically being for people who WANT Xeon E3s. They have other boards for other market segments. This specifically targets the people who want those chips.
For network, I'll definitely agree with you, especially on "workstation" motherboards. I have had significant compatibility and performance issues with their network controllers. Motherboard makers save about $3 on the chip, about $5 on the entire solution, by going with Realtek instead of Intel, and the trouble it creates hurts us many times that amount. They aren't worth it. I'd pay the extra $5 to get a less troublesome motherboard.
Their audio solutions have been pretty good, in my experience. They mostly use generic drivers within Windows, and don't require special control panel software from the manufacturer to control most of the features, but can use them if the user wants. The compatibility issues with them have been getting better and better over the last 10 years, to the point they're just about the best audio solution out there right now.
PS2 ports? Really? Does anyone still use those in 2016? Realtek NIC is definitely a fail for a "workstation" board. It seems like they're placing their bets on marketing alone to sell these and not the design decisions or quality of the components.
PS2 keyboards and mice have lower processor overhead than USB. USB devices are controlled entirely by software, but PS2 devices have their offloaded controllers. USB mice will sometimes "stutter" during processes of high overhead, where PS2 mice won't. (If you doubt that, try running WinXP SP2 on a single core processor machine and move the mouse around during Windows Update. It is most obvious there.) Also, USB keyboards may not read all keypresses during high processor usage. I've known some gamers that prefer PS2 keyboards and mice specifically because of that. With the quad core and higher processors available today, it doesn't make as much of a difference, but some people still prefer PS2 anyway.
Is there a tangible advantage in buying such a motherboard for gaming machine compared to something hi-end on i7, though? It`s not like we`re processor-constrained in general these days.
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jtd871 - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
Hey MSI: If you're going to go to the trouble of putting out a mATX Xeon board, would it be too much trouble to put the x16 slot in a position that a double-slot GPU cooler lets us actually use the other slots you're providing? Apparently it is. Try harder.Samus - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
I don't get that design choice. Many mATX and even full ATX boards like the old Asus X58's had a PCIe 1x slot above the PCIe 16x to allow use during SLI configurations... Very strange they borked those slots. With a blower GPU you can perhaps use slot #3 without blocking airflow to the card.azrael- - Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - link
I'd rather say, if they're going to the trouble of releasing Skylake Xeon E3 boards, then why cheap out on C232. It has to be C236 or nothing at all.kgardas - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
I'm waiting for mini-ITX Xeon E3 board with 4 DIMMs slots. All available so far provide only 2...Barilla - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
LGA-2011 socket and 4 DIMM slots on mini-ITX are... I'm not gonna say impossible since I can't prove it but I've seen some designs that attempted it and it's gonna be tricky as hell at best.samer1970 - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
it is available already from Asrockhere you go , X99 4 SO-Dimms quad channel
http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.as...
Barilla - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
I stand corrected.But wow, this is a true engineering marvel, not a single mm^2 wasted.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
@Barilla: "... this is a true engineering marvel, not a single mm^2 wasted."You're not wrong there. A lot of time and effort went into that design.
@Barilla: "... it's gonna be tricky as hell at best."
You can be sure this was true as well or we'd see more of these boards around.
kgardas - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
Xeon E3 is not for LGA-2011, but for 1150/51 IIRC. Also LGA-2011 + 4 RAM sockets are available from ASrock (RAM in SO-DIMM format). I'm looking into more cheaper DIMM and LGA-1150/51 socket.samer1970 - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.as...BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
That board doesn't support the Xeon E3 series, but it should lend credibility to the idea that it can be done.dgingeri - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
What is encouraging these motherboard makers to go with the C232? It's a horrible chipset, especially for a gaming board. The B150 is a better chipset, and cheaper. So what if the C232 supports Xeon E3 v5. People aren't going to game on a Xeon if they had a choice, and the C232 takes away the only reason to get a Xeon E3: integrated video. C232 is good for small business servers, but no gaming machines.yuhong - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
They basically have no choice if they want to support Xeons. Yes, this is a new Skylake restriction.Lolimaster - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
Gotta love what AMD is cooking.BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
@yuhong: "They basically have no choice if they want to support Xeons."Err, ... , C236 isn't a choice?
QinX - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
There is a very clear market for people like me. Workstation user and gaming enthusiast that work from home. We want/need Xeons for the Cores, ECC and other workstation features. But we also like to play games when we aren't working.Why should I have to buy 2 computers to get that? Yes you can just as wel use a regular workstation class board, but that has always been an option. Now we also get access to features like M.2 and other more gaming/enthusiast level features. I'm all for it!
dgingeri - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
If it were a workstation board, it would use the C236 chipset, not the C232. The C232 chipset is a low end server chipset. It doesn't allow the use of the integrated graphics of the Xeon chip, doesn't allow for splitting the x16 slot for more expansion, has severe USB port limitations, and is very short on storage options. The "workstation" justification doesn't fly. C232 just doesn't work for workstations. C236 is for workstations, and the extra $15 for that chipset wouldn't be any issue for someone looking for a workstation.This and the AsRock board are gaming boards, with severe limitations on graphics and storage, which flies in the face of gaming boards. They don't make any sense. The only people who would use such boards are people who want to use the Xeon for the ECC support, but without the integrated graphics, only have one slot for a discrete graphics card, don't want to use NVMe storage, and don't have more than 6 USB and SATA devices. That's just stupid. Such a system would be extremely limited.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
@dgingeri: "C236 is for workstations, and the extra $15 for that chipset wouldn't be any issue for someone looking for a workstation."The price difference of $15 is just for the chipset. Once you add in cost of components, more complex routing potentially adding more layers to the board, etc. to take advantage of the extra features, the cost difference grows to something like the difference between a B-series and and H-Series motherboard. That said, we should probably throw on a little more for the extra quality and verification testing that workstation boards typically have. Still, at the end of the day, I think it is a cost most people looking for a workstation would pay.
dgingeri - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
If someone truly needed a Xeon workstation, cost would not be such an issue that an extra $100 would make a difference. If $100 would make a different for that person, then they shouldn't even be looking at Xeon. (Workstation video cards cost from $200 to $3000 more than their desktop equals, simply for the professional certifications. Plus, C232 doesn't allow the use of integrated graphics from the CPU.) In addition, going with a C232 board would cancel out every single advantage of Xeon E3 except ECC memory, and that isn't enough to make up for the extra $200-300 they'd be spending on a Xeon system.C232 isn't any good for a workstation board, let alone a workstation/gaming board. It IS good for a low end server, where the video card would hook to a single PCIe lane from the chipset and a RAID controller or HBA would hook to the one slot from the processor. (Although, without being able to split the lanes on the CPU, it would be restricted to using 4 lanes from the chipset for networking, which would be restrictive.) It could potentially be useful for low end but plentiful blades in a VM cluster. C232 has a very narrow market, and workstation/gaming is NOT it.
David_K - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
You wrote that you want xeon for more cores etc, but what advantage in core count does a xeon in this socket gives you ? it is basically a Locked 4C/8T i7 with lower clocks and ECC. Maybe on 2011-V3 you can get much higher core count on the most expensive xeon vs most expensive Extreme edition i7. but on socket 1151 the xeons and this chipset are nothing special, and the fact they are so locked to server chipsets compared to last gen where people could run xeons on decent consumer xeons makes this choice even worse.cruzinforit - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
You have completely missed the point of these specifically being for people who WANT Xeon E3s. They have other boards for other market segments. This specifically targets the people who want those chips.HomeworldFound - Friday, May 6, 2016 - link
Every time I see the word Realtek I want to kill an engineer.dgingeri - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
For network, I'll definitely agree with you, especially on "workstation" motherboards. I have had significant compatibility and performance issues with their network controllers. Motherboard makers save about $3 on the chip, about $5 on the entire solution, by going with Realtek instead of Intel, and the trouble it creates hurts us many times that amount. They aren't worth it. I'd pay the extra $5 to get a less troublesome motherboard.Their audio solutions have been pretty good, in my experience. They mostly use generic drivers within Windows, and don't require special control panel software from the manufacturer to control most of the features, but can use them if the user wants. The compatibility issues with them have been getting better and better over the last 10 years, to the point they're just about the best audio solution out there right now.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
@HomeworldFound: "Every time I see the word Realtek I want to kill an engineer."Aw. Their audio solutions are ALL that bad. Some of them can be pretty decent with the right software package.
You say they make LAN chips as well. Are you sure those aren't decoys? Network land mines? Practical jokes? I need to sit down.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
Their audio solutions AREN'T ALL that bad. (need edit)Duwelon - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
PS2 ports? Really? Does anyone still use those in 2016? Realtek NIC is definitely a fail for a "workstation" board. It seems like they're placing their bets on marketing alone to sell these and not the design decisions or quality of the components.dgingeri - Sunday, May 8, 2016 - link
PS2 keyboards and mice have lower processor overhead than USB. USB devices are controlled entirely by software, but PS2 devices have their offloaded controllers. USB mice will sometimes "stutter" during processes of high overhead, where PS2 mice won't. (If you doubt that, try running WinXP SP2 on a single core processor machine and move the mouse around during Windows Update. It is most obvious there.) Also, USB keyboards may not read all keypresses during high processor usage. I've known some gamers that prefer PS2 keyboards and mice specifically because of that. With the quad core and higher processors available today, it doesn't make as much of a difference, but some people still prefer PS2 anyway.jihe - Monday, June 6, 2016 - link
Well yeah, wouldn't buy a board without ps/2. My IBM model M is far more important.Michael Bay - Monday, May 9, 2016 - link
Is there a tangible advantage in buying such a motherboard for gaming machine compared to something hi-end on i7, though? It`s not like we`re processor-constrained in general these days.