I was thinking the same thing. If you put an SFX PSU in there with an ATX adapter plate you'd have a ton of extra room for cables, hoses, a reservoir, longer graphics card, etc. Silverstone almost exclusively uses SFX PSU's in their ITX systems just for the reason they save so much space.
Yea but if they were trying to keep costs down (Which I like the price personally) then an SFX PSU wouldn't have been helpful.
They are fantastic, but more expensive than comparable ATX PSU's. Besides as you pointed out, it is still an option for the builder who wants to invest that extra scratch.
I got one question... What ATX cases in todays market has pretty good cable management and well recognized by PC enthusiasts? I've been eyeing Fractal design cases...but your help is really need!
Really, the best cable management is in OEM systems, because they custom make the PSU's (no ridiculous 24+4 or 24+8 pin connectors) but that limits your motherboard compatibility, and therefor your overclocking capabilities.
The only way to get decent cable management with a custom build is to use a modular PSU, and a high end case like Lian-Li, Silverstone and Corsair
I'm personally a big fan of the Silverstone FT03-Mini and Corsair Obsidian 250D for ITX platforms. For ATX, check out the Corsair 450D. For the price, its a really good, professional-looking case.
I avoid Fractal and NZXT like the plague. They are really just crappy quality. They completely ignore obvious design choices in every model...there's always one thing that utterly ruins the case, requiring some extreme modding and wasted time to work around.
The original Silverstone Fortress FT01 had probably the best cable management of any case I've ever owned, but it is a dated design (2008) although Silverstone has done a remarkable job supporting it. You can buy a new front IO backplane that has USB 3.0 ports for $20, and they have SATA and SAS backplanes for each hotswap bay available, eliminating cables completely.
Wow very informative answer, tyvm!!! I was checking out the Fractal Design R5 case as it did fare well on my checklist, but your recommendations opens up a whole new list. Thanks a ton Samus!
@quest_for_silence "Unfortunately those negative comments were mostly groundless/rather questionable"
I'll agree that they weren't well defined. However, I don't think the comments were entirely baseless. My personal experience is that the four NZXT systems I've built into have plastic fronts that scratch up quickly and easily. The structures also had far more flex than I like, though the customers were clearly more concerned with the aesthetic marring on the front. For reference, these were the Phantom 410, Phantom 630, Guardian 921, and the very recent Noctis 450.
I've only worked with the Fractal Design Define R4 and R5, so I can't comment on their other products. As far as these go, I've had decent luck. They don't really scratch up any worse than their competitors and the noise dampening is solid. The structure has a little more flex than I'd like, but generally isn't bad.
However, it is hard for me to recommend one of these Fractal Design cases if you can get your hands on a Nanoxia Deep Silence case. On the more expensive end, the high end Silverstone and Lian Li cases have some of the best build quality I've seen. The Silverstone Fortress FT02/Raven RV02 were some of the best cases I've ever built into. CaseLabs is probably the best, but Dat price. Only ever got to build into one of these and still dream of the day I can afford one for my own system. Corsair's offerings range from solid value with decent build quality (Carbide series) to high end case with a price that matches (Obsidian series). They also happen to be some of the easiest cases I've had the privilege of building into.
@zeeBomb If you are considering a Fractal Design Define R5 case, you may want to look into Nanoxia's Deep Silence series cases. Much higher build quality IMHO.
@Samus I generally agree with the above. I've had decent luck with Fractal Design, but I've only built into a Define R4 and R5. That said, like you, I find that there are better options out there. I would only add one manufacturer to your list: Nanoxia for noise dampening cases. Build quality is much higher than the Fractal Design cases IMHO. Cable management is only adequate, but I'd be remiss not to mention them for build quality, especially if you are looking for noise dampening. They don't have much in the way of mini-ITX, though. Sorry CaseLabs. You make some of the best cases out there, but $500 is a bit much.
I'm happy with the Corsair 400R I bought for my server. I bought it as it can take 10+ hard drives, but it also has decent cable management, at a good price.
Well there is the Fractal Design Node 304. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6470/fractal-design-... It's a M-ITX Case with just 19.7 liters volume and it has exelent airflow, especially for the 6(!) 3.5" disk bays and room for a long graphics card. Tough it has no ODD slot.
I have mine now for 3 years as a 6 disk file server and I'm thinking of building my next gaming rig (i7, GTX980) into it. Based on my experience with it I very much expect it to handle the thermals well.
I have one of these too, excellent case. When I get round to changing my server to itx, it'll go into the Node - you just can't fault a 19L case with 6 disk slots (plus extra space for 2.5" drives if you get creative).
A well known problem with the Node 304, even pointed out in the review you linked, is one of the oversights Fractal and NZXT cases are always plagued with, in this case, fitting a tall or long video card. As far as what you say about fitting a GTX980 into one...I don't think there is a GTX980 in existence that'll fit into the Node 304 so you might want to research that. Some 970 cards will fit, but since they are not blowers and have top down coolers you are going to have a furnace inside the 20L case.
I had this temperature issue with an FT03-mini and inevitably ended up using a GTX970 with a blower to exhaust all the heat the card generates out the back (top) of the case, instead of venting it into the case. Fortunately, unlike the Node 304, the FT03-mini is well engineered and accepts a 10.5" videocard AND accounts for power connections on the top AND the rear of the card. It's a tight fit, but that's expected, and in the end, it works. Everything works. You can fit a water cooler, 10.5" card, 2x2.5", 1x3.5", 1 ODD, up to a 600w SFX PSU, organize all the cables, and the case is 17.6L. You get what you pay for.
The Node 304 is really a crappy engineered case. You might not realize it until you see a properly engineered ITX case, though.
I'm not sure about the slot loading disk drive... At this point in time, the only disks I still use are for older games that you can't buy anymore. I'm not running those through a slot loader. Make it a slim drive with a normal tray. :)
Oh, absolutely. I'm all for having an optical drive option, just not slot loaders. If it grinds a piece of dirt into the data surface of a classic game disk while feeding it, you've got to go to Ebay and try to find a new one that isn't outrageously expensive. Kinda of a niche problem, I suppose.
Some glorious day in the future, all game publishers will put their back catalog on GOG and this won't be a problem.
Looking at that cable snarl makes me worry about how well a GPU would fit. I know you mentioned that longer cards would get in the way of modular cable connections; but without an alternate short 24pin cable I'm not sure how you'd be able to get a full card in and stuff the extra cable out of the way. I see a few other people've suggested an SFX PSU for space reasons; do they also come with shorter cables out of the box?
I like the exterior look of this case and will definitely keep an eye on it, but I think for practicality purposes, I'll have to stick with my Cooler Master 120. The Cougar just looks a little big for my tastes in the wrong dimension (too tall).
Before Cooler Master released the 130 without the drive rack (though by the looks of the 130, the cage maybe would still take some modding) I modded the CM 120 by removing the internal bays and mounting two 120x120x52mm CLCs in it with three 120mm fans in a stacked rad configuration (F-R-F-R-F), one for the GPU and one for the CPU. The overclocked CPU gets the fresh intake from the front and then I was actually still able to cram in two 120mm fans, one on each side of the rad stack, to blow fresh air through to the second interior rad. Add in CM's 80mm side mobo fan and the Antec 92mm spot cool I threw in there for the mobo and the VRAM on the back of my GTX 770 4GB and I've got a whopping SEVEN fans in that shoebox with two radiator systems. And that's not counting the 92mm an I have on the modded GTX VRAM. All of the fans are PWM except for the 80mm and the spot cool, so it's quiet when it needs to be and boss when things ramp up.
Been daily driving a 3570K @ 4.65 GHz and a GTX 770 4GB @ 1400 MHz core/7940 MHz memory for three years now.
Still my favorite ITX to tinker with.
Been waiting for Pascal to drop before considering an upgrade, but it's all good; I'm almost hitting GTX 970 3dMark scores with my overclock.
If I can see this Cougar in-person before Pascal drops, I might give it a go if I feel it can suit my needs, otherwise it may be back to the 120.
This Cougar case does seem too big for mini-ITX. My Silverstone SG05 seems like it's half the height of the QBX. To me, that's part of the point of going mini-ITX - you want something small.
In 10-15L ITX designs, there are essentially only two conventional designs. One moves the PSU to the side so that a cooler like the D9L or U9S can be accommodated, and the M1, SG08 and QBX follow this route. The other is to suspend the PSU over the motherboard, saving space but limiting CPU coolers to a maximum of something like the L9x65. The SG05, SG06, and SG13 follow this design. IMO the Elite 130 doesn't make a whole lot of sense aside from long GPU support, seeing as how the case is large yet can't accommodate a decent air cooler.
I would like to see a review like this for the croudfunded NCASE M1, small yet very feature rich, including ODD, large graphics cards, Water cooling support, etc.. the only drawback some might see is it support mainly SFX PSU, and has a very limited ATX PSU support
hmmmm. when we will start to see Type-C ports on cases, AFAIK only one case now have support for it... hope AnandTech will make an article in this regard, maybe case manufacturers will rethink again about adopting it...
Filling an entire drivebay up for a pair of ports you can hide under your thumb is inelegant at best. If you've got a case that hides the drive bays behind a door (aside from visual aesthetics, this offers better noise suppression in most cases) it's borderline unusable.
Unfortunately it's probably going to be a few years before we see a widespread and largescale replacement of A ports with C ones on the front panels of cases. Worse is that because they're a different size; even if the case manufacturers offer a swapable upgrade part in most cases it's not going to have a particularly clean look. (The only exceptions being designs that put the ports bezels on a separate case part instead of just cutting holes in a large front/top panel.)
Very happy with this case. It's perhaps overkill for my ultra-low-power NAS/Media Server/HTPC project but I just couldn't resist. The internal power cable comes in handy when you're going the PicoPSU route and want to mount the power brick inside your case. My original plan was to buy some econobox to hide away in my media center but this beauty sits right out in the open.
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Ninhalem - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
With a smaller PSU and custom sleeved cables, a competent water cooling modder could put a decent system together inside this case.Samus - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
I was thinking the same thing. If you put an SFX PSU in there with an ATX adapter plate you'd have a ton of extra room for cables, hoses, a reservoir, longer graphics card, etc. Silverstone almost exclusively uses SFX PSU's in their ITX systems just for the reason they save so much space.Refuge - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Yea but if they were trying to keep costs down (Which I like the price personally) then an SFX PSU wouldn't have been helpful.They are fantastic, but more expensive than comparable ATX PSU's. Besides as you pointed out, it is still an option for the builder who wants to invest that extra scratch.
zeeBomb - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Oh this cougar...cable game strong!I got one question... What ATX cases in todays market has pretty good cable management and well recognized by PC enthusiasts? I've been eyeing Fractal design cases...but your help is really need!
Samus - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Really, the best cable management is in OEM systems, because they custom make the PSU's (no ridiculous 24+4 or 24+8 pin connectors) but that limits your motherboard compatibility, and therefor your overclocking capabilities.The only way to get decent cable management with a custom build is to use a modular PSU, and a high end case like Lian-Li, Silverstone and Corsair
I'm personally a big fan of the Silverstone FT03-Mini and Corsair Obsidian 250D for ITX platforms. For ATX, check out the Corsair 450D. For the price, its a really good, professional-looking case.
I avoid Fractal and NZXT like the plague. They are really just crappy quality. They completely ignore obvious design choices in every model...there's always one thing that utterly ruins the case, requiring some extreme modding and wasted time to work around.
The original Silverstone Fortress FT01 had probably the best cable management of any case I've ever owned, but it is a dated design (2008) although Silverstone has done a remarkable job supporting it. You can buy a new front IO backplane that has USB 3.0 ports for $20, and they have SATA and SAS backplanes for each hotswap bay available, eliminating cables completely.
zeeBomb - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Wow very informative answer, tyvm!!! I was checking out the Fractal Design R5 case as it did fare well on my checklist, but your recommendations opens up a whole new list. Thanks a ton Samus!quest_for_silence - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
Unfortunately those negative comments were mostly groundless/rather questionableBurntMyBacon - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
@quest_for_silence "Unfortunately those negative comments were mostly groundless/rather questionable"I'll agree that they weren't well defined. However, I don't think the comments were entirely baseless. My personal experience is that the four NZXT systems I've built into have plastic fronts that scratch up quickly and easily. The structures also had far more flex than I like, though the customers were clearly more concerned with the aesthetic marring on the front. For reference, these were the Phantom 410, Phantom 630, Guardian 921, and the very recent Noctis 450.
I've only worked with the Fractal Design Define R4 and R5, so I can't comment on their other products. As far as these go, I've had decent luck. They don't really scratch up any worse than their competitors and the noise dampening is solid. The structure has a little more flex than I'd like, but generally isn't bad.
However, it is hard for me to recommend one of these Fractal Design cases if you can get your hands on a Nanoxia Deep Silence case. On the more expensive end, the high end Silverstone and Lian Li cases have some of the best build quality I've seen. The Silverstone Fortress FT02/Raven RV02 were some of the best cases I've ever built into. CaseLabs is probably the best, but Dat price. Only ever got to build into one of these and still dream of the day I can afford one for my own system. Corsair's offerings range from solid value with decent build quality (Carbide series) to high end case with a price that matches (Obsidian series). They also happen to be some of the easiest cases I've had the privilege of building into.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
@zeeBombIf you are considering a Fractal Design Define R5 case, you may want to look into Nanoxia's Deep Silence series cases. Much higher build quality IMHO.
BurntMyBacon - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
@SamusI generally agree with the above. I've had decent luck with Fractal Design, but I've only built into a Define R4 and R5. That said, like you, I find that there are better options out there. I would only add one manufacturer to your list: Nanoxia for noise dampening cases. Build quality is much higher than the Fractal Design cases IMHO. Cable management is only adequate, but I'd be remiss not to mention them for build quality, especially if you are looking for noise dampening. They don't have much in the way of mini-ITX, though. Sorry CaseLabs. You make some of the best cases out there, but $500 is a bit much.
Ninhalem - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Best cable management cases would have to be the Case Labs' cases, hands down.Samus - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Hah, yeah, Case Labs are awesome cases, but for $500 they should be :)kmmatney - Sunday, November 15, 2015 - link
I'm happy with the Corsair 400R I bought for my server. I bought it as it can take 10+ hard drives, but it also has decent cable management, at a good price.simonpschmitt - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Well there is the Fractal Design Node 304.http://www.anandtech.com/show/6470/fractal-design-...
It's a M-ITX Case with just 19.7 liters volume and it has exelent airflow, especially for the 6(!) 3.5" disk bays and room for a long graphics card. Tough it has no ODD slot.
I have mine now for 3 years as a 6 disk file server and I'm thinking of building my next gaming rig (i7, GTX980) into it. Based on my experience with it I very much expect it to handle the thermals well.
zsolmanz - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
I have one of these too, excellent case. When I get round to changing my server to itx, it'll go into the Node - you just can't fault a 19L case with 6 disk slots (plus extra space for 2.5" drives if you get creative).HollyDOL - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Built a M-ITX on Fractal Design Core 500 for relative, got Fractal Design Define R3 myself, both work perfectly.Samus - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
A well known problem with the Node 304, even pointed out in the review you linked, is one of the oversights Fractal and NZXT cases are always plagued with, in this case, fitting a tall or long video card. As far as what you say about fitting a GTX980 into one...I don't think there is a GTX980 in existence that'll fit into the Node 304 so you might want to research that. Some 970 cards will fit, but since they are not blowers and have top down coolers you are going to have a furnace inside the 20L case.I had this temperature issue with an FT03-mini and inevitably ended up using a GTX970 with a blower to exhaust all the heat the card generates out the back (top) of the case, instead of venting it into the case. Fortunately, unlike the Node 304, the FT03-mini is well engineered and accepts a 10.5" videocard AND accounts for power connections on the top AND the rear of the card. It's a tight fit, but that's expected, and in the end, it works. Everything works. You can fit a water cooler, 10.5" card, 2x2.5", 1x3.5", 1 ODD, up to a 600w SFX PSU, organize all the cables, and the case is 17.6L. You get what you pay for.
The Node 304 is really a crappy engineered case. You might not realize it until you see a properly engineered ITX case, though.
zsolmanz - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Hey now, I wouldn't give them *too* much credit for their design. At least one of them will have seen NCase M1:https://www.ncases.com/
Still, can't complain about such a similar case for a quarter of the price.
jtd871 - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
The M1 is 2/3 the volume at less than 13 liters.DavidBrees - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
The NCASE M1 just seems like a better designed case. The layout of the M1 seems to utilize the space much more efficiently.mr_tawan - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
> Ultiamtely once you have done the necessary homework, what you will find is that the Cougar QBX is a well-designed and high quality Mini-ITX caseUltimately, :-)
Mr Perfect - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
I'm not sure about the slot loading disk drive... At this point in time, the only disks I still use are for older games that you can't buy anymore. I'm not running those through a slot loader. Make it a slim drive with a normal tray. :)SpartyOn - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
I use my slot loader in my ITX for Blu-ray backups and burning home movies to Blu-ray/DVD for family. It's still helpful to have around.Mr Perfect - Saturday, November 14, 2015 - link
Oh, absolutely. I'm all for having an optical drive option, just not slot loaders. If it grinds a piece of dirt into the data surface of a classic game disk while feeding it, you've got to go to Ebay and try to find a new one that isn't outrageously expensive. Kinda of a niche problem, I suppose.Some glorious day in the future, all game publishers will put their back catalog on GOG and this won't be a problem.
lodos - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Anyone know of a nice looking mini-ITX case with 2 or more externally swapping 3.5" drive bays? Thanks!Mr Perfect - Saturday, November 14, 2015 - link
Not really. You might have better luck looking at rack-mountable cases, it's easy getting hot-swap bays in those.ND40oz - Saturday, November 14, 2015 - link
Silverstone DS380, Lian Li has the PC-Q25 but you have to open the side panel to get to the hot swap bays.UncleSlug - Sunday, November 15, 2015 - link
There was this one from u-nas - http://anandtech.com/show/9508/asrock-rack-c2750d4... there's a 4 bay one also.lodos - Sunday, November 22, 2015 - link
Thanks guys! Going to look at these!DanNeely - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Looking at that cable snarl makes me worry about how well a GPU would fit. I know you mentioned that longer cards would get in the way of modular cable connections; but without an alternate short 24pin cable I'm not sure how you'd be able to get a full card in and stuff the extra cable out of the way. I see a few other people've suggested an SFX PSU for space reasons; do they also come with shorter cables out of the box?SpartyOn - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
I like the exterior look of this case and will definitely keep an eye on it, but I think for practicality purposes, I'll have to stick with my Cooler Master 120. The Cougar just looks a little big for my tastes in the wrong dimension (too tall).Before Cooler Master released the 130 without the drive rack (though by the looks of the 130, the cage maybe would still take some modding) I modded the CM 120 by removing the internal bays and mounting two 120x120x52mm CLCs in it with three 120mm fans in a stacked rad configuration (F-R-F-R-F), one for the GPU and one for the CPU. The overclocked CPU gets the fresh intake from the front and then I was actually still able to cram in two 120mm fans, one on each side of the rad stack, to blow fresh air through to the second interior rad. Add in CM's 80mm side mobo fan and the Antec 92mm spot cool I threw in there for the mobo and the VRAM on the back of my GTX 770 4GB and I've got a whopping SEVEN fans in that shoebox with two radiator systems. And that's not counting the 92mm an I have on the modded GTX VRAM. All of the fans are PWM except for the 80mm and the spot cool, so it's quiet when it needs to be and boss when things ramp up.
Been daily driving a 3570K @ 4.65 GHz and a GTX 770 4GB @ 1400 MHz core/7940 MHz memory for three years now.
Still my favorite ITX to tinker with.
Been waiting for Pascal to drop before considering an upgrade, but it's all good; I'm almost hitting GTX 970 3dMark scores with my overclock.
If I can see this Cougar in-person before Pascal drops, I might give it a go if I feel it can suit my needs, otherwise it may be back to the 120.
jwcalla - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Somebody make something smaller.romrunning - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
This Cougar case does seem too big for mini-ITX. My Silverstone SG05 seems like it's half the height of the QBX. To me, that's part of the point of going mini-ITX - you want something small.tabascosauz - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
In 10-15L ITX designs, there are essentially only two conventional designs. One moves the PSU to the side so that a cooler like the D9L or U9S can be accommodated, and the M1, SG08 and QBX follow this route. The other is to suspend the PSU over the motherboard, saving space but limiting CPU coolers to a maximum of something like the L9x65. The SG05, SG06, and SG13 follow this design. IMO the Elite 130 doesn't make a whole lot of sense aside from long GPU support, seeing as how the case is large yet can't accommodate a decent air cooler.Samus - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
The FT03-mini is 17.6L but is a complete mindwarp to work inside. Once you figure it out it's actually quite genius. Once you figure it out...I'd never recommend one to a novice. I think Cougar is targeting a wider audience than Silverstone, which I've always considered to be a niche brand.
sna1970 - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
this case is stolen from NCASE M1 , the same design . SHAME ON THEM !https://www.ncases.com/
techxx - Friday, December 30, 2016 - link
Similar design. I think it's great they could bring something this good to the masses at this price point.Xajel - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
I would like to see a review like this for the croudfunded NCASE M1, small yet very feature rich, including ODD, large graphics cards, Water cooling support, etc.. the only drawback some might see is it support mainly SFX PSU, and has a very limited ATX PSU supporthmmmm. when we will start to see Type-C ports on cases, AFAIK only one case now have support for it... hope AnandTech will make an article in this regard, maybe case manufacturers will rethink again about adopting it...
sna1970 - Wednesday, November 18, 2015 - link
front bay USB 3.1 Already exist from Asus , Gigabyte and Asrock.you can add front USB3.1 to any case available.
DanNeely - Thursday, November 19, 2015 - link
Filling an entire drivebay up for a pair of ports you can hide under your thumb is inelegant at best. If you've got a case that hides the drive bays behind a door (aside from visual aesthetics, this offers better noise suppression in most cases) it's borderline unusable.Unfortunately it's probably going to be a few years before we see a widespread and largescale replacement of A ports with C ones on the front panels of cases. Worse is that because they're a different size; even if the case manufacturers offer a swapable upgrade part in most cases it's not going to have a particularly clean look. (The only exceptions being designs that put the ports bezels on a separate case part instead of just cutting holes in a large front/top panel.)
zodiacfml - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
Good job. I also love the conclusion which includes this " one that experienced builders should find rewarding."akdubya - Thursday, November 19, 2015 - link
Very happy with this case. It's perhaps overkill for my ultra-low-power NAS/Media Server/HTPC project but I just couldn't resist. The internal power cable comes in handy when you're going the PicoPSU route and want to mount the power brick inside your case. My original plan was to buy some econobox to hide away in my media center but this beauty sits right out in the open.