Until Intel actually fixes all of the issues with the Haswell NUC, I don't think I can consider another system from them again. I use one of my NUCs as a HTPC, and I'm so tired of having to reboot the system every time I turn my TV on because the NUC refuses to bitstream. (Note: All Intel iGPUs had this issue for a few months last year.) There's also the headless issue that Intel hasn't fully fixed yet, which affects my other NUC.
The HTPC NUC (with the bitstreaming problem) is running Windows 7 with PLEX as its front-end, and the other one (with the headless issue) is running Windows 8.1 (it's on a touch screen). I'm pretty sure the issue is with Intel's graphics driver, which includes the HDMI audio driver.
CompuLab 4K Display Emulator (fit-Headless 4K) is the solution I found for headless. I recommend trying it. UltraVNC with this display emulator works quite well. The headless thing was driving me nuts, but not just on the NUC. VNC in general was giving me a black screen. There is a cheaper Compulab part if you don't need higher res. I actually use 2560 x 1440, so I haven't really tested 4K.
Hm... do you think it's possible to use an HDMI to DisplayPort adapter with one of those? To be clear, my unit isn't really headless, but my problem is related to the headless issue. I can actually remote into my NUC + Acer T232HL (connected via HDMI) as long as the monitor is turned on. If the monitor is turned off, all I get is a black screen. So, since I'm using the HDMI for the Acer monitor, I was wondering if I could just buy the 1080p version and a mini-DP to HDMI adapter?
I haven't had any of these issues bitstreaming to my Haswell i3 NUC and I use Win7 Media Center for encrypted CableCard content and my wife uses VLC streaming from our NAS to watch her DVR'd shows. Power states, wake, all of that work without having to cycle the power on the NUC itself.
I've had some other issues with it though, namely the 29/59 bug and the video driver that were ultimately resolved from googling an obscure fix and setting in Intel's driver. Intel has some of the worst end-user support though, you can post whatever you want on that community site but more than likely, you'll get no fix or just some boilerplate "working as intended but unsupported" rubbish (see BlueTooth headset compatibility for their wireless radios).
But even if you need a lot of storage, just get yourself a NAS and allocate what you need as an iSCSI taret and the NUC can still be a full-fledged HTPC solution.
Overall I've been happy with the NUC, but if I had to do it all over again, I would've just picked up a cheap used Surface Pro 2 and dock from Cowboom for similar $$$ and called it a day.
That's interesting that you're not having an issue, but I have to ask... are you bitstreaming at all from within WMC or VLC? When this issue crops up, I can just turn off Dolby and DTS in PLEX's audio settings, and everything works. The thing is... I went from passing the 5.1 audio to the receiver to passing 2.0 audio and my receiver is now using post-processing (DTS HD Neo, etc.). I'm also fairly sure this isn't an issue with Plex as I recall looking at the audio settings in Windows and noticing that the devices were all messed up. It's the reboot that fixes the devices and makes things work again. I think it's just something with the HDMI audio not reinitializing properly once the TV and receiver turn back on.
I tried the latest beta drivers that were actually posted in that headless bug thread. Apart from a BSOD on turning the TV/AVR back on, they seemed to fix the problem for a few days, but I ended up getting the bug (and another BSOD) last night. :(
Yeah we're bitstreaming from within both WMC and VLC from shared networked resources, either the NAS or in some cases my wife will stream from her desktop to the NUC over WiFi. However, we are not using an A/V receiver off the NUC, it just goes straight to the HDTV in the bedroom.
Honestly it sounds more like an HDMI handshake issue between the NUC and the AV receiver, like it can't tell what state the TV is in so it just defaults to no compatible audio device on wake. A lot of this goes back to the awful state of EDID on various HDTV devices, and while they can be fixed on the driver side with hacks (Nvidia has done this numerous times), they really shouldn't have to. Is there a setting on your AV receiver that allows HDMI passthrough, or video only?
Also, have you tried manually putting the NUC into S3 sleep with the proper DTS 5.1 settings configured? I know on my X-FI HTHD there was a quirky workaround that required manually sleeping to get the HDMI audio settings to stick.
What exactly makes it a Windows DRM issue? I have a "normal" i3-3225 HTPC, and it works fine in the same scenario. I have had issues with Windows DRM in the past, but that was an issue with PlayReady requiring an update but failing to update.
By far the biggest limitation of NUC is obviously Intel graphics. They've been getting better by leaps and bounds every generation, but when you consider where Intel graphics started (at the way bottom) even leaps and bounds still puts them at the bottom.
There really isn't a good solution to this since adding any GPU will increase heat and power consumption. AMD has compelling chips that operate near the TDP of NUC CPU's but their floating point performance is terrible. So the trade-off is CPU power for GPU power...and most people prefer CPU power.
It's too bad NVidia and Intel have such a sour relationship because if NVidia licensed X86, they could have a potential hit on their hands with a CPU+GPU SoC, but considering they're manufacturing-limited to TSMC just like AMD, it probably wouldn't be much better than AMD's option.
Just keep in mind, the AMD chips that are close to Intel's in TDP, have WORSE graphics, because they are so cut down. It isn't till you get in the 25+w TDP range that AMD has compelling chips. Their 15/17w range seems to preform worse at every measure (CPU, GPU all benchmarks and real use) than Intel chips. Hit 25w or so and the GPUs in the AMD designs just run away with it. Though I can't speak to Broadwell versus AMD's solutions, but Haswell against AMD's solutions, that was the case.
Their driver support still leaves a ton to be desired, and I don't even mean for games. Simple bug for 29/59 refresh rates is still an issue on Intel graphics, they have some video treatments that are enabled by default that results in horrible flickering for any source material that suffers 29/59 refresh rate bug (many TV shows or live TV streams).
There was a post some 20ish long and months old with no resolution, no acknowledgement of the bug from an Intel rep that posted on it repeatedly that just said "I will check with engineering to see if they have an update on this". I finally found obscure references on other forums like Silicon Dust and AVS forums that led me to the fix, which again, is really obscure in their menus.
Glad I found the fix, since it was a deal-breaker for me and I wasn't looking forward to having to demand a refund over it from Newegg/Intel since it was a non-refund replacement item at NE.
My solution for issues like this (where the auto-detect is an issue) has always been to tape off pin 19 (hot plug detect) on the HDMI cable, which prevents Windows from sensing that a display is connected/disconnected. Been doing it for years now, with the only side effect being that I need to make sure the TV (and receiver) is turned on before booting the PC.
Sorry I do not want to sound smart, but is this actually a Intel issue? How old is your receiver? I am also considering this nuc. But I want to know if the issue shows up with all receivers. If this does not work and the issue lies in it's design by Intel it is a deal breaker for me. Are there any hassle free alternatives?
Furthermore what is the CPU TDP and PSU efficiency of this baby? Is it better than a normal desktop with a decent 80+ PSU? Furthermore is the PSU internal or external? And can you play some simple games on them (without overheating) or is this not feasible? I only would use it to play 1080p movies maybe some simple games from gog. Would like to use it with makerbot NES case and nodded fan possibly. Thanks.
I recently bought a pre-built 5i5RYK (http://www.stickpcstore.com/mini-pcs/shop/intel/in... lovely... the Intel NUC really is a beautiful machine... I'm using as a media hub in my living room... and with a wireless keyboard and mouse connected it makes a convenient PC when sitting on the sofa too. Tantalisingly though... the place where I bought mine from emailed me about a forthcoming i7!!!
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kspirit - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Wow.No one does it like Intel. They are ridiculously good at this.
Aikouka - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Until Intel actually fixes all of the issues with the Haswell NUC, I don't think I can consider another system from them again. I use one of my NUCs as a HTPC, and I'm so tired of having to reboot the system every time I turn my TV on because the NUC refuses to bitstream. (Note: All Intel iGPUs had this issue for a few months last year.) There's also the headless issue that Intel hasn't fully fixed yet, which affects my other NUC.AmaCha - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
What system are you using on your NUC ?XBMC/Kodi ? OpenELEC ? Anything else ?
Aikouka - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
The HTPC NUC (with the bitstreaming problem) is running Windows 7 with PLEX as its front-end, and the other one (with the headless issue) is running Windows 8.1 (it's on a touch screen). I'm pretty sure the issue is with Intel's graphics driver, which includes the HDMI audio driver.The bitstreaming problem was reported to Intel quite a while ago, but they haven't fixed it:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/41853
Intel is still working on the headless issue, but at least they're trying to fix it:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/46788?tstart=...
It's sad, because as long as you don't need a lot of storage, the NUC is a great full-fledged HTPC solution.
ssddaydream - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
CompuLab 4K Display Emulator (fit-Headless 4K) is the solution I found for headless. I recommend trying it. UltraVNC with this display emulator works quite well. The headless thing was driving me nuts, but not just on the NUC. VNC in general was giving me a black screen. There is a cheaper Compulab part if you don't need higher res. I actually use 2560 x 1440, so I haven't really tested 4K.Aikouka - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Hm... do you think it's possible to use an HDMI to DisplayPort adapter with one of those? To be clear, my unit isn't really headless, but my problem is related to the headless issue. I can actually remote into my NUC + Acer T232HL (connected via HDMI) as long as the monitor is turned on. If the monitor is turned off, all I get is a black screen. So, since I'm using the HDMI for the Acer monitor, I was wondering if I could just buy the 1080p version and a mini-DP to HDMI adapter?ssddaydream - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
That should work just fine, although I've only adapted to DVI as well as miniHDMI. Electrically, I think the signaling is the same.dakishimesan - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
http://www.amazon.com/CompuLab-fit-Headless-Displa...chizow - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
I haven't had any of these issues bitstreaming to my Haswell i3 NUC and I use Win7 Media Center for encrypted CableCard content and my wife uses VLC streaming from our NAS to watch her DVR'd shows. Power states, wake, all of that work without having to cycle the power on the NUC itself.I've had some other issues with it though, namely the 29/59 bug and the video driver that were ultimately resolved from googling an obscure fix and setting in Intel's driver. Intel has some of the worst end-user support though, you can post whatever you want on that community site but more than likely, you'll get no fix or just some boilerplate "working as intended but unsupported" rubbish (see BlueTooth headset compatibility for their wireless radios).
But even if you need a lot of storage, just get yourself a NAS and allocate what you need as an iSCSI taret and the NUC can still be a full-fledged HTPC solution.
Overall I've been happy with the NUC, but if I had to do it all over again, I would've just picked up a cheap used Surface Pro 2 and dock from Cowboom for similar $$$ and called it a day.
Aikouka - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
That's interesting that you're not having an issue, but I have to ask... are you bitstreaming at all from within WMC or VLC? When this issue crops up, I can just turn off Dolby and DTS in PLEX's audio settings, and everything works. The thing is... I went from passing the 5.1 audio to the receiver to passing 2.0 audio and my receiver is now using post-processing (DTS HD Neo, etc.). I'm also fairly sure this isn't an issue with Plex as I recall looking at the audio settings in Windows and noticing that the devices were all messed up. It's the reboot that fixes the devices and makes things work again. I think it's just something with the HDMI audio not reinitializing properly once the TV and receiver turn back on.I tried the latest beta drivers that were actually posted in that headless bug thread. Apart from a BSOD on turning the TV/AVR back on, they seemed to fix the problem for a few days, but I ended up getting the bug (and another BSOD) last night. :(
chizow - Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - link
Yeah we're bitstreaming from within both WMC and VLC from shared networked resources, either the NAS or in some cases my wife will stream from her desktop to the NUC over WiFi. However, we are not using an A/V receiver off the NUC, it just goes straight to the HDTV in the bedroom.Honestly it sounds more like an HDMI handshake issue between the NUC and the AV receiver, like it can't tell what state the TV is in so it just defaults to no compatible audio device on wake. A lot of this goes back to the awful state of EDID on various HDTV devices, and while they can be fixed on the driver side with hacks (Nvidia has done this numerous times), they really shouldn't have to. Is there a setting on your AV receiver that allows HDMI passthrough, or video only?
Also, have you tried manually putting the NUC into S3 sleep with the proper DTS 5.1 settings configured? I know on my X-FI HTHD there was a quirky workaround that required manually sleeping to get the HDMI audio settings to stick.
powerarmour - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
The bitstreaming issue is a Windows DRM issue, all Intel NUC's bitstream perfectly fine under Linux and OpenELEC etc.Aikouka - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
What exactly makes it a Windows DRM issue? I have a "normal" i3-3225 HTPC, and it works fine in the same scenario. I have had issues with Windows DRM in the past, but that was an issue with PlayReady requiring an update but failing to update.powerarmour - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Because a specific Intel MEI driver is required to negotiate with Windows DRM mechanism before bitstreaming is allowed to function.Flunk - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
It might be a software issue, Linux support for the NUC isn't so hot. It may not be Intel's fault.powerarmour - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Linux support for the NUC's is generally fine, the only major bug I'm aware of is the C6/C7 C-States with BayTrail chipsets and >3.16 kernels.Samus - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
By far the biggest limitation of NUC is obviously Intel graphics. They've been getting better by leaps and bounds every generation, but when you consider where Intel graphics started (at the way bottom) even leaps and bounds still puts them at the bottom.There really isn't a good solution to this since adding any GPU will increase heat and power consumption. AMD has compelling chips that operate near the TDP of NUC CPU's but their floating point performance is terrible. So the trade-off is CPU power for GPU power...and most people prefer CPU power.
It's too bad NVidia and Intel have such a sour relationship because if NVidia licensed X86, they could have a potential hit on their hands with a CPU+GPU SoC, but considering they're manufacturing-limited to TSMC just like AMD, it probably wouldn't be much better than AMD's option.
Flunk - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Not just Intel, they'd need a license to AMD64 (the 64bit extension to x86) as well and well... You know who owns that.azazel1024 - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Just keep in mind, the AMD chips that are close to Intel's in TDP, have WORSE graphics, because they are so cut down. It isn't till you get in the 25+w TDP range that AMD has compelling chips. Their 15/17w range seems to preform worse at every measure (CPU, GPU all benchmarks and real use) than Intel chips. Hit 25w or so and the GPUs in the AMD designs just run away with it. Though I can't speak to Broadwell versus AMD's solutions, but Haswell against AMD's solutions, that was the case.chizow - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Their driver support still leaves a ton to be desired, and I don't even mean for games. Simple bug for 29/59 refresh rates is still an issue on Intel graphics, they have some video treatments that are enabled by default that results in horrible flickering for any source material that suffers 29/59 refresh rate bug (many TV shows or live TV streams).There was a post some 20ish long and months old with no resolution, no acknowledgement of the bug from an Intel rep that posted on it repeatedly that just said "I will check with engineering to see if they have an update on this". I finally found obscure references on other forums like Silicon Dust and AVS forums that led me to the fix, which again, is really obscure in their menus.
Glad I found the fix, since it was a deal-breaker for me and I wasn't looking forward to having to demand a refund over it from Newegg/Intel since it was a non-refund replacement item at NE.
jhoff80 - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
My solution for issues like this (where the auto-detect is an issue) has always been to tape off pin 19 (hot plug detect) on the HDMI cable, which prevents Windows from sensing that a display is connected/disconnected. Been doing it for years now, with the only side effect being that I need to make sure the TV (and receiver) is turned on before booting the PC.imaheadcase - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
That the only issue? Because I don't have any issues on Win 8.1 Pro on my haswell NUC on Kodi.Sadheal - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Hi, this new Nuc has been reviewed here already, but the Core i3 version :http://www.01net.com/fiche-produit/prise-main-1928...
You can Google trad it if you need :)
Tests results here :
http://www.01net.com/fiche-produit/resultats-tests...
Comparison with other mini-PCs here :
http://www.01net.com/tests-comparatifs/classement-...
ganeshts - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Take them with a grain of salt - Intel told us that they are still finalizing the BIOS with performance and stability tweaks.Sadheal - Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - link
Apparently the Core i3 is not even throttling in full GPU and CPU load !Devo2007 - Monday, January 12, 2015 - link
Just when I was about to buy one of the Haswell ones this week. :(kgh00007 - Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - link
Hi, these new nuc's take an M.2 form factor SSD, but do they still use the SATA III interface/mSata interface or can you install a PCIE M.2 SSD?K_Space - Friday, February 6, 2015 - link
I'm pretty sure its SATA III although can't remember the source URL.K_Space - Friday, February 6, 2015 - link
I stand corrected. Both the Product brief and intel support centre acknowledge support for PCI mSATA devices i.e. Samsung SM951.http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit...
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/...
aLPHa_NRG - Saturday, February 14, 2015 - link
Sorry I do not want to sound smart, but is this actually a Intel issue? How old is your receiver? I am also considering this nuc. But I want to know if the issue shows up with all receivers. If this does not work and the issue lies in it's design by Intel it is a deal breaker for me. Are there any hassle free alternatives?aLPHa_NRG - Saturday, February 14, 2015 - link
Furthermore what is the CPU TDP and PSU efficiency of this baby? Is it better than a normal desktop with a decent 80+ PSU? Furthermore is the PSU internal or external? And can you play some simple games on them (without overheating) or is this not feasible? I only would use it to play 1080p movies maybe some simple games from gog. Would like to use it with makerbot NES case and nodded fan possibly. Thanks.KevEli78 - Saturday, March 14, 2015 - link
I recently bought a pre-built 5i5RYK (http://www.stickpcstore.com/mini-pcs/shop/intel/in... lovely... the Intel NUC really is a beautiful machine... I'm using as a media hub in my living room... and with a wireless keyboard and mouse connected it makes a convenient PC when sitting on the sofa too. Tantalisingly though... the place where I bought mine from emailed me about a forthcoming i7!!!