Ripster! You seem to be showing up everywhere I go these days. I must have been out of the loop on geekhack for a bit... what happened there that everyone keeps referring to on deskthority?
Was hoping this was good. I have the k60 and so far only issues I have, aside from the fading keys, which they fixed with an RMA I now still occasionally get the key repeating bug, and or double spaces. I can live with it though.
Was hoping Thermaltake had an improved keyboard, but it seems the do not.
I have the repeated keypress issue on my Corsair Vengeance K90 as well. Sometimes it's fairly minor, but I've had it to where it entered at least two dozen of the same character into a message. You mention that it must be a USB issue, but I never saw this problem before my K90, and I used an original Logitech G15 for quite a few years. I wonder if it could be some weird issue with the software (in the keyboard) that controls the anti-ghosting.
One thing that has struck me as weird about the K90... I've actually performed a firmware upgrade on it. I never thought that I'd ever have to perform a firmware upgrade *on a keyboard*.
I've never had any key repeating problems on Logitech keyboards using the USB interface on a variety of systems. My bud uses a Razer BlackWidow and never has had an issue either. Looks like I'll wait for the next revision before springing on a Corsair keyboard..
Honestly it looks like it'd basically be comparable to Rosewill's RK-9000 with the same Cherry MX Blue switches we reviewed. It looks almost identical, just without the number pad.
There's a lot more to a keyboard than looks and having the same switches. One could argue that my Leopold tenkeyless with MX Browns is exactly the same as my Filco tenkeyless with MX browns, but they feel almost completely different.
The build quality and it's components (plate mounted, key caps, etc.) are what make the difference.
If you really want a nice Cherry MX keyboard then I recommend Filco, yes it's worth the price difference.
Dustin, you need to test a keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches. They are most people's ultimate choice for a gaming and typing keyboard. Reds are a frequent runner-up as, like you mentioned, they are basically a lighter Black switch.
Yeah according to the link TheEye's posted they do recommend MX Brown as the best compromise between typing and gaming. Looking on newegg though, it looks fairly uncommon with only 5 listings. Two by Daskeyboard at ~ 150 a brand I never heard of as well as a Rosewill and Coolermaster.
only cherry mx red is good i even think it has slightly too much resistence i want super cherry mx red i couldn't imagine having more resistence but then again i type at like 140wpm
"While the aggressively loud and wonderfully clicky Cherry MX Blue switches in Rosewill's RK-9000 leave a lasting and indelible impression as being ideal for any serious typing (and not sensitive enough for gaming)"
Disagree. I've had two makes of keyboard with Cherry Blues and they've been fine for gaming, and not just RTS. The clickity audio aesthetic isn't the best mesh for things like FPSs, but gaming was no problem. That includes Mirror's Edge ;)
I did get a Rosewill with Cherry Browns recently, and like others are saying, it is really good for gaming and typing. Nice, quiet "thunk" feeling to them... but a lot lighter than that. Just satisfying to use. I've yet to try blacks or reds, but am picturing the browns as close to ideal for all-around use to me.
These keyboards are aimed at gamers? The tiny one as the worst layout... moving the ? key over? there is no reason for it. Just leave it where it is... stick the shit key where it belongs.
The middle keyboard, almost got it... +/- for the points made.
The Meka G-Unit is something I am almost interested in. First, I actually PREFER the L-shaped ENTER key. My keyboard was made in 1996... its no longer made... and is white(ish). Todays black keyboards are hard to read at night too.
Anyway, my layout is similar to the Meka G-Unit but they screwed it up by moving the RIGHT shift KEY way over to the right. (Again 3 different keyboards with 3 totally different layouts? I think these come from different suppliers). Finding a keyboard with both a BIG-L enter key and BIG Backspace key is rare. On mine, they stuck the :\ key (rarely use) to the right of the RIGHT shift key and of course made R-Shift a bit smaller. I think that's a perfect layout.
- BIG backspace - BIG Enter Key
I'd go with this island keylayout... BIG Delete key, but keep the HOME/END Page UP/Down keys where they are. (toss out the Pause/break key, its a Fn or CTRL key combo on Scroll Lock).
Cons: - not all keys light up... why not ALL and selective? Or how about multi-colored user control. Some keys red, some white, some blue, etc?
- Not all players use WASD control. I use a mouse for all movements. Keyboard to fire.
The keyboard has 4 directions for moving. My mouse moves quite well. My tigger finger isn't interacting with the mouse.
Mouse = Mouse view and movement direction... I can run at angles and circles that you can't do with WASD. The LEFT button = move forward. RIGHT button = move backwards. My logitech has two side buttons, I have these set to STRAFE <left and right>.
CTRL key = Primary fire Shift key = secondary fire (grenade) ASDFG keys = Weapons keys. (also mouse wheel) Z = zoom XCVB = various controls keys.
I never touch the right side of the keyboard.
On my ONLINE FPS games... I'm usually in the top 3-4 in scoring/kills.
Its fine that people use WASD, as long as I have the option to make it work for me.
Good to know I'm not the only one who use the mouse for movement. I've tried to get used to using WASD for movement, because it's the default for most games these days... but it just feels so clumsy for me.
Mostly it's a bit of an old dog / new trick sort of thing... I'm too lazy to learn a new style of play.
I think the WASD choice came about because of similarity to console games... my style came about because that's how games were set up in the earliest FPS's.
left button = fire right button = forward back button = backward (extra button on mouse)
I have the base Meka, and yes the layout is odd, but that's i-rocks doing (they made the board before Thermaltake rebranded it).
The reason I use it? It's the only compact mechanical with tenkey and 2 usb ports. Unless someone knows of another. I would love a standard tenkey compact with usb ports in a more standard layout.
I Just got a Das Keyboard S with Cherry MX blues and couldn't be happier. It's at my workstation so I haven't tried it for gaming, but I could definitely see the advantages of red or black switches for that. I would be interested to see a review of the Das Keyboard Silent or another keyboard with the MX brown switches for comparison.
I'm not sure how they stack up for gaming, as I'm just a casual gamer, but I'm a big fan of Unicomp's keyboards. They are the direct descendants of IBM's Selectric typewriter keyboards.
I had an old IBM keyboard for a long time and when it finally died, I found Unicomp. I have the Classic 104 in black. Also note that most of their keyboards come with a choice of USB or PS/2 connectors:
Do you guys ever plan to review mechanical keyboards from companies that have been doing it for years (Deck, Filco, Das, etc)? I like that you started to review them, it's just I have not seen one keyboard reviewed that is built like a true mechanical KB should be; like a brick and designed to outlast everything else. All of these new TT, Corsair, etc keyboards feel flimsy and cheap in comparison.
I'm using a mech4 Levetron keyboard that uses cherry black MX switches. It's an interesting keyboard because the keypad can be removed from the right side and put on the left. It still has a solid feel and locks into place. It also has an additional 6 key macro add on that plugs into the spare usb port, yes it's usb, ps2 doesn't work. The addon slides on a rail allowing positioning over any part of the main keys, but covers part of the function keys when down in position. It's a flipup style addon. This keyboard is rarely heard of as it is rather unusual. The keys have a standard layout otherwise but the back space key is painted with an arrow(but is back space) and is the size of a standard key, which doesn't affect my typing though it might some)
Anyhow when I first used the keyboard I liked the feel for typing better than my razer black widow ultimate (I believe cherry blue MX keys, don't quote me though). The higher actuation force doesn't bother me but I like the linear smooth feel in actuation. I almost always bottom out when typing on either keyboard. (Heavy hands, long fingers).
I can only comment on my experience, but I had MAJOR issues with Razer's build quality and support process (i.e. - I strongly discourage others from making my mistake of going with a Razer keyboard)
The only place you can buy Razer's BWUS keyboard is directly from Razer online. Let me summarize my experience and let you be the judge:
May 8, I ordered the BWUS keyboard from the only place you can get it - the Razer store. It came to me with the backlit key feature defective. I immediately contacted support expecting a replacement to be shipped. I had to first take photos and send them in, wait several days, and then be told I need to return it and wait 2 weeks for the replacement. I was very unhappy but did just that. What I got back on July 2 (nearly 2 months after placing my order) was a dirty unit, in a bent and torn box, completely missing the left shift key. I thought this was a screw up of epic proportions, but I was sure Razer would correct this very quickly. Well, after relaying the story I was told to send pictures of the missing key!!!! Are you serious? You don't believe me when I say it is missing a key? Or even worse, you are trying to determine from the photo if you can send a new key and have my insert it. Forget the fact I ordered a new keyboard and have now been sent a used one.
And finally I did get the email confirmation that they are going to send a key that I can hopefully just pop in, and that I can just clean the keyboard??? lol - I could not make this up.
ps - they keyboard itself is decent if you get a new and working one. BUT IF YOU DON'T, YOU CAN ONLY CONTACT RAZER SUPPORT THROUGH EMAIL WHICH TAKES 2-3 DAYS TO GET A RESPONSE AND AS EVIDENCED ABOVE, THEY ONLY TAKE THE BARE MINIMUM STEPS TO GET YOUR PRODUCT FUNCTIONING.
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37 Comments
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TheEyes - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
As far as I'm concerned, every article on keyboards should link to the mechanical keyboard guide on Overclock.net:http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keybo...
It's a very useful guide to all the different types of switches, how they work, and which are best for particular applications.
Loafers - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
I'm sorry, but I think you meant geekhack.orgJakeisbest - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Careful geekhack.org has been hacked and is not safe to visit right now.ripster55 - Tuesday, July 3, 2012 - link
R00TW0RMed to be specific.ripster55 - Tuesday, July 3, 2012 - link
In fact, I just linked to this article from:http://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/w09v3/t...
24/7 and friendlier people than any of the alternatives.
JustCallMeCrash - Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - link
Ripster! You seem to be showing up everywhere I go these days. I must have been out of the loop on geekhack for a bit... what happened there that everyone keeps referring to on deskthority?SilthDraeth - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Was hoping this was good. I have the k60 and so far only issues I have, aside from the fading keys, which they fixed with an RMA I now still occasionally get the key repeating bug, and or double spaces. I can live with it though.Was hoping Thermaltake had an improved keyboard, but it seems the do not.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
I get the key repeating bug, but I got that on my old Microsoft Reclusa too. At this point I've just resigned myself to it being a fact of USB.Aikouka - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
I have the repeated keypress issue on my Corsair Vengeance K90 as well. Sometimes it's fairly minor, but I've had it to where it entered at least two dozen of the same character into a message. You mention that it must be a USB issue, but I never saw this problem before my K90, and I used an original Logitech G15 for quite a few years. I wonder if it could be some weird issue with the software (in the keyboard) that controls the anti-ghosting.One thing that has struck me as weird about the K90... I've actually performed a firmware upgrade on it. I never thought that I'd ever have to perform a firmware upgrade *on a keyboard*.
swx2 - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
O_o I wasn't even aware that there was a firmware update out for the K90... must get! What does it fix?SilthDraeth - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
It is supposed to fix the repeating key bug. But it doesn't entirely.Does this keyboard work with a ps2 adapter?
Googer - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Im using an old Mechanical Keyboard on PS/2 on an ASUS AMD A75 APU motherboard and have no keyboard issues what so ever.daar - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
I've never had any key repeating problems on Logitech keyboards using the USB interface on a variety of systems. My bud uses a Razer BlackWidow and never has had an issue either. Looks like I'll wait for the next revision before springing on a Corsair keyboard..SilthDraeth - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire Rapid SGK-4000-GKCL1-US USB or PS/2 Wired Gaming Mechanical Cherry Blue Switches Keyboardhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=23...
Uses Cherry blue switches, looks well made. I almost bought one, but the K60 was on sale for $20 less.
Still not sure I made the right decision.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Honestly it looks like it'd basically be comparable to Rosewill's RK-9000 with the same Cherry MX Blue switches we reviewed. It looks almost identical, just without the number pad.canontk - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
There's a lot more to a keyboard than looks and having the same switches. One could argue that my Leopold tenkeyless with MX Browns is exactly the same as my Filco tenkeyless with MX browns, but they feel almost completely different.The build quality and it's components (plate mounted, key caps, etc.) are what make the difference.
If you really want a nice Cherry MX keyboard then I recommend Filco, yes it's worth the price difference.
althaz - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Dustin, you need to test a keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches. They are most people's ultimate choice for a gaming and typing keyboard. Reds are a frequent runner-up as, like you mentioned, they are basically a lighter Black switch.joel4565 - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Yeah according to the link TheEye's posted they do recommend MX Brown as the best compromise between typing and gaming. Looking on newegg though, it looks fairly uncommon with only 5 listings. Two by Daskeyboard at ~ 150 a brand I never heard of as well as a Rosewill and Coolermaster.The Coolermaster actually looks like a pretty nice keyboard on paper at ~ 100: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Dustin, any chance you might be able to test the Coolmaster SGK-4010-GKCM1-US?
MrSpadge - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Agreed. I've got the Zowie Celeritas with MX Brown and find them much better than any MX Black I've tested (not many, though).jigglywiggly - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
only cherry mx red is goodi even think it has slightly too much resistence
i want super cherry mx red
i couldn't imagine having more resistence
but then again i type at like 140wpm
Jakeisbest - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Cherry corp has announced they they are making an even lighter switch, i think the announcement was at the CES tradeshow.cmdrdredd - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Anything lighter and you'll have way too many misfires. No thanks.AssBall - Friday, June 29, 2012 - link
You type at "like 140wpm".When you ignore spelling and punctuation and capitalization.
I can type "like 140 WPM" of junk too...
IlllI - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
completely ruins it.fishbits - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
"While the aggressively loud and wonderfully clicky Cherry MX Blue switches in Rosewill's RK-9000 leave a lasting and indelible impression as being ideal for any serious typing (and not sensitive enough for gaming)"Disagree. I've had two makes of keyboard with Cherry Blues and they've been fine for gaming, and not just RTS. The clickity audio aesthetic isn't the best mesh for things like FPSs, but gaming was no problem. That includes Mirror's Edge ;)
I did get a Rosewill with Cherry Browns recently, and like others are saying, it is really good for gaming and typing. Nice, quiet "thunk" feeling to them... but a lot lighter than that. Just satisfying to use. I've yet to try blacks or reds, but am picturing the browns as close to ideal for all-around use to me.
Belard - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
These keyboards are aimed at gamers? The tiny one as the worst layout... moving the ? key over? there is no reason for it. Just leave it where it is... stick the shit key where it belongs.The middle keyboard, almost got it... +/- for the points made.
The Meka G-Unit is something I am almost interested in. First, I actually PREFER the L-shaped ENTER key. My keyboard was made in 1996... its no longer made... and is white(ish). Todays black keyboards are hard to read at night too.
Anyway, my layout is similar to the Meka G-Unit but they screwed it up by moving the RIGHT shift KEY way over to the right. (Again 3 different keyboards with 3 totally different layouts? I think these come from different suppliers). Finding a keyboard with both a BIG-L enter key and BIG Backspace key is rare. On mine, they stuck the :\ key (rarely use) to the right of the RIGHT shift key and of course made R-Shift a bit smaller. I think that's a perfect layout.
- BIG backspace
- BIG Enter Key
I'd go with this island keylayout... BIG Delete key, but keep the HOME/END Page UP/Down keys where they are. (toss out the Pause/break key, its a Fn or CTRL key combo on Scroll Lock).
Cons:
- not all keys light up... why not ALL and selective? Or how about multi-colored user control. Some keys red, some white, some blue, etc?
- Not all players use WASD control. I use a mouse for all movements. Keyboard to fire.
cmdrdredd - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
WASD is the accepted norm and just about every competitive FPS player uses it because if you use your mouse to move, you can't aim for shit.Belard - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
Funny... my AIM is quite good with the mouse.The keyboard has 4 directions for moving. My mouse moves quite well. My tigger finger isn't interacting with the mouse.
Mouse = Mouse view and movement direction... I can run at angles and circles that you can't do with WASD. The LEFT button = move forward. RIGHT button = move backwards. My logitech has two side buttons, I have these set to STRAFE <left and right>.
CTRL key = Primary fire
Shift key = secondary fire (grenade)
ASDFG keys = Weapons keys. (also mouse wheel)
Z = zoom
XCVB = various controls keys.
I never touch the right side of the keyboard.
On my ONLINE FPS games... I'm usually in the top 3-4 in scoring/kills.
Its fine that people use WASD, as long as I have the option to make it work for me.
perspicacity - Friday, June 29, 2012 - link
Good to know I'm not the only one who use the mouse for movement. I've tried to get used to using WASD for movement, because it's the default for most games these days... but it just feels so clumsy for me.Mostly it's a bit of an old dog / new trick sort of thing... I'm too lazy to learn a new style of play.
I think the WASD choice came about because of similarity to console games... my style came about because that's how games were set up in the earliest FPS's.
left button = fire
right button = forward
back button = backward (extra button on mouse)
Porksmuggler - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
I have the base Meka, and yes the layout is odd, but that's i-rocks doing (they made the board before Thermaltake rebranded it).The reason I use it? It's the only compact mechanical with tenkey and 2 usb ports. Unless someone knows of another. I would love a standard tenkey compact with usb ports in a more standard layout.
Belard - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - link
LOL! I expected they bought something else.... Hence the 3 totally different keyboard layouts.For the most part, Logitech keys its keyboards the same, as does Microsoft.
6x9equals42 - Friday, June 29, 2012 - link
I Just got a Das Keyboard S with Cherry MX blues and couldn't be happier. It's at my workstation so I haven't tried it for gaming, but I could definitely see the advantages of red or black switches for that. I would be interested to see a review of the Das Keyboard Silent or another keyboard with the MX brown switches for comparison.jgrnt1 - Friday, June 29, 2012 - link
I'm not sure how they stack up for gaming, as I'm just a casual gamer, but I'm a big fan of Unicomp's keyboards. They are the direct descendants of IBM's Selectric typewriter keyboards.I had an old IBM keyboard for a long time and when it finally died, I found Unicomp. I have the Classic 104 in black. Also note that most of their keyboards come with a choice of USB or PS/2 connectors:
pckeyboard.com
sjc1017 - Saturday, June 30, 2012 - link
I type at least 3000 words everyday on my lap top, can someone please tell me what are the advantages of these keyboards?cj145 - Saturday, June 30, 2012 - link
Do you guys ever plan to review mechanical keyboards from companies that have been doing it for years (Deck, Filco, Das, etc)? I like that you started to review them, it's just I have not seen one keyboard reviewed that is built like a true mechanical KB should be; like a brick and designed to outlast everything else. All of these new TT, Corsair, etc keyboards feel flimsy and cheap in comparison.tinspinner - Saturday, July 7, 2012 - link
I'm using a mech4 Levetron keyboard that uses cherry black MX switches. It's an interesting keyboard because the keypad can be removed from the right side and put on the left. It still has a solid feel and locks into place. It also has an additional 6 key macro add on that plugs into the spare usb port, yes it's usb, ps2 doesn't work. The addon slides on a rail allowing positioning over any part of the main keys, but covers part of the function keys when down in position. It's a flipup style addon. This keyboard is rarely heard of as it is rather unusual. The keys have a standard layout otherwise but the back space key is painted with an arrow(but is back space) and is the size of a standard key, which doesn't affect my typing though it might some)Anyhow when I first used the keyboard I liked the feel for typing better than my razer black widow ultimate (I believe cherry blue MX keys, don't quote me though). The higher actuation force doesn't bother me but I like the linear smooth feel in actuation. I almost always bottom out when typing on either keyboard. (Heavy hands, long fingers).
burkeden - Monday, July 16, 2012 - link
I can only comment on my experience, but I had MAJOR issues with Razer's build quality and support process (i.e. - I strongly discourage others from making my mistake of going with a Razer keyboard)The only place you can buy Razer's BWUS keyboard is directly from Razer online. Let me summarize my experience and let you be the judge:
May 8, I ordered the BWUS keyboard from the only place you can get it - the Razer store.
It came to me with the backlit key feature defective. I immediately contacted support expecting a replacement to be shipped. I had to first take photos and send them in, wait several days, and then be told I need to return it and wait 2 weeks for the replacement. I was very unhappy but did just that.
What I got back on July 2 (nearly 2 months after placing my order) was a dirty unit, in a bent and torn box, completely missing the left shift key. I thought this was a screw up of epic proportions, but I was sure Razer would correct this very quickly. Well, after relaying the story I was told to send pictures of the missing key!!!! Are you serious? You don't believe me when I say it is missing a key? Or even worse, you are trying to determine from the photo if you can send a new key and have my insert it. Forget the fact I ordered a new keyboard and have now been sent a used one.
And finally I did get the email confirmation that they are going to send a key that I can hopefully just pop in, and that I can just clean the keyboard??? lol - I could not make this up.
ps - they keyboard itself is decent if you get a new and working one. BUT IF YOU DON'T, YOU CAN ONLY CONTACT RAZER SUPPORT THROUGH EMAIL WHICH TAKES 2-3 DAYS TO GET A RESPONSE AND AS EVIDENCED ABOVE, THEY ONLY TAKE THE BARE MINIMUM STEPS TO GET YOUR PRODUCT FUNCTIONING.