I know what you're trying to say girl You're trying to say, "oh yeah that's it" And you tell me you want some more Well i'm not surprised but i am quite sleepy
It's business it's business time I know what you're trying to say You're trying to say it's time for business It's business time ooh It's business it's business time
The Z305's are hardly the only decent game in town for portable, affordable speakers. The Edifier MP300's go for $50-60 and are actually a honest-to-god true 2.1 that even come with a portable case. I've listened to these in store and frankly I wasn't impressed... the description of "donut" sound is accurate: highs and lows, but a large hole in the middle. But they've gotten decent reviews and I have a hard time believing they're worse than a small tube that hangs out behind your screen.
Then there are the classic Creative Gigaworks T20 and T40...slightly more expensive, the T20 can be found for about $80 and at 6lbs can be thrown into a larger laptop bag. In terms of sound the bass is obviously weak but they're a lot more balanced than the Edifiers and probably worth the extra $20-30 if you're actually going to bother with external sound. Yes they're a bit bigger but still weigh less than a lot of laptops...and fact is you can't get around the laws of physics: when it comes to audio, bigger IS better.
I could see that being a real winner in Logitech's upcoming marketing campaign--
The New, Compact Logitech Z305! Now you never have to go anywhere without speakers again -- even when you're on the throne! For when a man wants to feel like a king.
Or perhaps:
They never leave your side. Even while you're taking a massive dump. The Logitech Z305. Coming soon, everywhere. Literally. Everywhere.
I am not really an audiophile (yet), but I have a friend who is. And he has a pair of Bang & Olufsen stereo speakers that are smaller than a bowling ball each, and yet they put to shame my 5.1 tower JBL speaker system! I was blown away. True that his 2 small speakers also cost a lot more than my JBL, but the point I want to make is simply that your claim that when it comes to audio, "bigger is better" is utterly misguided and ignorant. Sorry.
Take it in the context of laptop speakers, though. Sure, you can have excellent audio from something that's only 5" or so. Try getting that same sort of quality from 2.5" and you're going to run into problems. Now shrink that down to the typical 1" (or smaller!) laptop speaker and you're definitely at the stage where "bigger is better" is absolutely factual. If this were a review of regular desktop speakers and someone said that, yes, it would be misguided and ignorant, but for the product/market in question it's absolutely true.
factual? hardly! They way you and Evil_Sheep make it sound is that you can judge the performance of a speaker by it's size alone. THAT is what I am dissagreeing with. While a bigger size "can" give the designer of the speaker more room to develope a better speaker, it most certainly does NOT make the speaker. By making my earlier point, I am trying to explain that speaker design and quality is the ultimate decider of a speaker's performance, not it's size. You can't buy any big speaker and expect it to outperform a better designed and quality small speaker. Get it? But naturally, when design and quality is equal, then size can be a factor. big JBL > small JBL (or logitech or creative, etc) big Bang & Olufsen > small Bang & Olufsen. But.. small Bang & Olufsen > big JBL or creative or logitech. Get it? A bigger Size allows for the potential to design something awesome within that space, but without the skills to do so, it will be wasted space.
I think you've misinterpreted what we've been saying -- we're not really in disagreement. There's no need to huff and puff.
I was saying the same thing you are: speaker size is a design constraint. Obviously a bigger speaker isn't going to be automatically better than a smaller one. It's simply that, all things being equal, bigger speakers have an advantage because they are easier to design -- up to a certain point.
And at the really small sizes, like jarred says, size becomes a major constraint. I've personally never heard any decent sound coming from a tiny, portable set though surely it's possible. Just difficult.
It's why I'm a bit skeptical of the Logitechs (though of course I can't really judge until I've heard them.) They're really small and the sound isn't even directed towards the user. Also a lot of Logitech's recent cheaper efforts have been pretty forgettable.
So when the conclusion said the Z305's are the only game in town, I thought I'd make some suggestions because that really isn't true. The Edifier MP300's are fully portable speakers: the sats can sit in your palm and the sub is smaller than the Z305. The Gigaworks might not be marketed as portable speakers but I don't think it's unreasonable at all to consider carrying them around. And my experience is they sound pretty good for the size/cost (and a lot of people must agree since they've been on the market for years.) There's probably some others out there too but those two are the ones I know of.
Agreed. Let's not take things out of context or set up straw men. Yes, we "get it", but why are you so set on trying to prove size doesn't matter, particularly when you then provide a list that says otherwise? All other things being equal, size matters, especially at the small end of the spectrum. Sure, you can make some large speakers that sound like garbage, but what's the point?
At the extreme, a large subwoofer alone sounds like crap compared to a full set of speakers, but that's a silly comparison. If you go out and buy an average set of speakers with 3" drivers and compare those to an average set of speakers with 1" drivers, though, bigger would almost certainly be "better".
No one is trying to say you can judge speakers by size alone--just like you can't judge a power supply by weight alone! All I'm saying is that in the context of this article (a review of a clip-on laptop speaker tube), it's no surprise that a couple of ~1" speakers on the ends of a "subwoofer tube" can best nearly any laptop.
If Dustin brings the Z305 to CES, I'll see if I can get an XPS 15 to compare it with... that's my new benchmark for decent sounding laptop speakers.
As another point of reference (and a little anecdote), I've got what most people consider pretty average desktop speakers: Logitech Z-640s from around 2004 (along with some newer X530 speakers from 2006 I think). They're nothing special, but they work for games well enough. More to the point, while merely decent for the $60 I paid way back when, I still prefer the sound of these "budget" speakers to that of every laptop I've used. $60 from more than six years ago and I'm pretty sure they sound better than the Z305 today at the same price. How's that for longevity?
The edifiers are decent, a little bit outdated though.. I've always been fond of Creative Gigaworks, but ended up jumping ship when I found the JBL Pebbles here http://www.pricenfees.com/category/speakers in their "best computer speakers under one-hundred dollars" guide. They're not specifically designed as laptop speakers, but they're small enough and sound great - Not too expensive either!
For years I've wanted portable speakers that clip onto a laptop screen; these seem good. But I really don't want them behind the screen, for the reasons you listed. I want them to clip onto the sides, be very thin and have a port to plug in an optional Subwoofer; that would obviously require an outlet so you could only use the subwoofer in a limited number of situations but it'd still be nice to have the option. And for travel use the two clip on speakers ON THE SIDES OF THE SCREEN would work great.
Something like the S-220 is EXACTLY what I'm looking for sound wise. For the size/price I'm amazed by the quality of those speakers. So If I could get those exact same 3 speakers (2 speakers and 1 subwoofer) I'd be willing to pay 50 bucks easy. Considering they cost 28 bucks right now I think 50 should be enough of a premium to satisfy the accountants at Logitech.
PLEASE LOGITECH MAKE THIS DREAM OF MINE COME TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uh I can't find an "X205" but there is a Z205. Best buy has it right now 39.99 with free shipping (not to mention local BB pickup) - NEWEGG FAIL. I am really disappointed how expensive Newegg has gotten on just about everything, especially since Best Buy of all places is almost always CHEAPER than the Egg - and you don't have to wait for it to be shipped either!
Shop around, people! Newegg isn't the cheapest anymore!
Also- if there is to be no more audio reviews then PLEASE PLEASE just make us aware of new speakers/headphones and post it as a 1 page "news" column! Many of us still want to know what the latest and greatest is even if it's not in the form of a through review by AT's standards.
Since I am talking about speakers for desktop replacement notebooks, I just reinstated a 2.1 30W RMS set, plugged it on the earphone jacks, and let it rip. The subwoofer isn't exactly portable, but the two 4" sattelite drivers can be placed apart for outstanding stereo separation. Hey, watch out the smoker over there ! *bang* nevermind. It is a bit cumbersome, with the wall wart 'n stuff, but the note isn't going anywhere soon.
As far as real mobility goes it is either these reviewed speakers or tiny speakers with all of the 2,5W an USB port can output. (500mA x 5V) Don't expect any set to sound great on that amount of power. The earphones, otoh....
I have read the last several audio product reviews and previews. I have not been one of the people who I guess are clamoring for the equivalent of a PSU review. Stuff like RTAs and the other associated audio testing equipment are both really expensive, and don't necessarily give an answer that translates into information that can be appreciated. So why give it up? If I don't like the subjective reviews of a product like this Logitech, I won't read this particular review. I won't cry about it. I'm not sure what it is that people actually want. Just because a product may have impeccable audio reproduction capabilities doesn't mean its something you'd want to listen to. Please, do not give up reviewing audio devices.
How about this? Have a couple people listen to a device. Talk it over. Decide if it sucks or not.
What is it that people think they want to know that can't be provided without a $200k lab? Generally, if a clip on laptop system sounds pretty good for the money and the size, then that's it. How are you going to measure the THD? If this were professional sound reinforcement gear, maybe it would be warranted. If Logitech or Antec, or any other company sends you some gear, help some people out. Give it a once over. I swear, the most vocal critics of Anandtech's audio reviews must be the most likely to not have any idea what the hap's is. What are you going to do? "Say Logitech, we'd love to review this gear, but some of the people who read us are toolbags and don't like how we review stuff. Sorry." If Anandtech doesn't want to review some gear for one reason or another, then it's not my business. But if I have a say, I say continue on. Review whatever. If readers can be vocal in their opposition, then I can be vocal in my support. If anything, I'd like to see more reviews, not less.
I have to agree with you on some level. I was a naysayer on these "reviews" because I felt there should be some objective component. With that said, the benefit of subjective reviews starts to increase when the number of samples increases. I think the problem many of us had was there was very little if any comparison on these products to other products. It was always, "my old Bose speakers put these to shame", etc. and that angered quite a few of us.
But now having several similar products to compare from at least Dustin can start saying, "Subjectively, product X is better than A, B, and C", and even though not scientific in it's rigor, there is some worth to the "review".
So I say keep going, but start spending a bit more time now that you have a sample size on the comparisons between the products just as much as the products themselves.
What it takes to do decent testing is a Behringer ECM8000 mic and a phantom power source like a small mixer or a M-Audio MobilePre. Pair that with a good piece of software like TrueRTA or ETF and you have a good starting point. A treated room with bass traps and sound absorbing panels like Sonex would also be vital to eliminate standing waves and reflections. ETF is espcially good since it also does waterfall charts for transient response times.
With a waterfall plot, frequency response, off-axis falloff, and SPL measured, you could do some great articles. There used to be a great site with a great forum dedicated to computer audio, but the name eludes me. There really hasn't been any good computer audio sites since that one went down.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
29 Comments
Back to Article
toms_usnavy - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
is that it?toms_usnavy - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
i should say though, thats some damn good writing.puffpio - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
I know what you're trying to say girlYou're trying to say, "oh yeah that's it"
And you tell me you want some more
Well i'm not surprised but i am quite sleepy
erple2 - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Well, _I_ got work in the morning...fabarati - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
It's business it's business timeI know what you're trying to say
You're trying to say it's time for business
It's business time ooh
It's business it's business time
ProDigit - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - link
better than nothing!If you don't like it, don't read it!
The only good speakers for desktops are studio monitors with 8" drivers in em.
Anything less does not give a good sound!
Evil_Sheep - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
The Z305's are hardly the only decent game in town for portable, affordable speakers. The Edifier MP300's go for $50-60 and are actually a honest-to-god true 2.1 that even come with a portable case. I've listened to these in store and frankly I wasn't impressed... the description of "donut" sound is accurate: highs and lows, but a large hole in the middle. But they've gotten decent reviews and I have a hard time believing they're worse than a small tube that hangs out behind your screen.Then there are the classic Creative Gigaworks T20 and T40...slightly more expensive, the T20 can be found for about $80 and at 6lbs can be thrown into a larger laptop bag. In terms of sound the bass is obviously weak but they're a lot more balanced than the Edifiers and probably worth the extra $20-30 if you're actually going to bother with external sound. Yes they're a bit bigger but still weigh less than a lot of laptops...and fact is you can't get around the laws of physics: when it comes to audio, bigger IS better.
jaredtrobinson - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
I think the point is that these are 'ultra' portable, vs the other ones. Try using those speaks you mention on the couch, or on the toilet lol.Those you mention are viable just different market imo
Evil_Sheep - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Eww seriously, on the toilet?I could see that being a real winner in Logitech's upcoming marketing campaign--
The New, Compact Logitech Z305! Now you never have to go anywhere without speakers again -- even when you're on the throne! For when a man wants to feel like a king.
Or perhaps:
They never leave your side. Even while you're taking a massive dump. The Logitech Z305. Coming soon, everywhere. Literally. Everywhere.
techcurious - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
I am not really an audiophile (yet), but I have a friend who is. And he has a pair of Bang & Olufsen stereo speakers that are smaller than a bowling ball each, and yet they put to shame my 5.1 tower JBL speaker system! I was blown away. True that his 2 small speakers also cost a lot more than my JBL, but the point I want to make is simply that your claim that when it comes to audio, "bigger is better" is utterly misguided and ignorant. Sorry.JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Take it in the context of laptop speakers, though. Sure, you can have excellent audio from something that's only 5" or so. Try getting that same sort of quality from 2.5" and you're going to run into problems. Now shrink that down to the typical 1" (or smaller!) laptop speaker and you're definitely at the stage where "bigger is better" is absolutely factual. If this were a review of regular desktop speakers and someone said that, yes, it would be misguided and ignorant, but for the product/market in question it's absolutely true.techcurious - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
factual? hardly! They way you and Evil_Sheep make it sound is that you can judge the performance of a speaker by it's size alone. THAT is what I am dissagreeing with. While a bigger size "can" give the designer of the speaker more room to develope a better speaker, it most certainly does NOT make the speaker. By making my earlier point, I am trying to explain that speaker design and quality is the ultimate decider of a speaker's performance, not it's size. You can't buy any big speaker and expect it to outperform a better designed and quality small speaker. Get it? But naturally, when design and quality is equal, then size can be a factor.big JBL > small JBL (or logitech or creative, etc)
big Bang & Olufsen > small Bang & Olufsen.
But.. small Bang & Olufsen > big JBL or creative or logitech.
Get it?
A bigger Size allows for the potential to design something awesome within that space, but without the skills to do so, it will be wasted space.
Evil_Sheep - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - link
I think you've misinterpreted what we've been saying -- we're not really in disagreement. There's no need to huff and puff.I was saying the same thing you are: speaker size is a design constraint. Obviously a bigger speaker isn't going to be automatically better than a smaller one. It's simply that, all things being equal, bigger speakers have an advantage because they are easier to design -- up to a certain point.
And at the really small sizes, like jarred says, size becomes a major constraint. I've personally never heard any decent sound coming from a tiny, portable set though surely it's possible. Just difficult.
It's why I'm a bit skeptical of the Logitechs (though of course I can't really judge until I've heard them.) They're really small and the sound isn't even directed towards the user. Also a lot of Logitech's recent cheaper efforts have been pretty forgettable.
So when the conclusion said the Z305's are the only game in town, I thought I'd make some suggestions because that really isn't true. The Edifier MP300's are fully portable speakers: the sats can sit in your palm and the sub is smaller than the Z305. The Gigaworks might not be marketed as portable speakers but I don't think it's unreasonable at all to consider carrying them around. And my experience is they sound pretty good for the size/cost (and a lot of people must agree since they've been on the market for years.) There's probably some others out there too but those two are the ones I know of.
JarredWalton - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - link
Agreed. Let's not take things out of context or set up straw men. Yes, we "get it", but why are you so set on trying to prove size doesn't matter, particularly when you then provide a list that says otherwise? All other things being equal, size matters, especially at the small end of the spectrum. Sure, you can make some large speakers that sound like garbage, but what's the point?At the extreme, a large subwoofer alone sounds like crap compared to a full set of speakers, but that's a silly comparison. If you go out and buy an average set of speakers with 3" drivers and compare those to an average set of speakers with 1" drivers, though, bigger would almost certainly be "better".
No one is trying to say you can judge speakers by size alone--just like you can't judge a power supply by weight alone! All I'm saying is that in the context of this article (a review of a clip-on laptop speaker tube), it's no surprise that a couple of ~1" speakers on the ends of a "subwoofer tube" can best nearly any laptop.
If Dustin brings the Z305 to CES, I'll see if I can get an XPS 15 to compare it with... that's my new benchmark for decent sounding laptop speakers.
As another point of reference (and a little anecdote), I've got what most people consider pretty average desktop speakers: Logitech Z-640s from around 2004 (along with some newer X530 speakers from 2006 I think). They're nothing special, but they work for games well enough. More to the point, while merely decent for the $60 I paid way back when, I still prefer the sound of these "budget" speakers to that of every laptop I've used. $60 from more than six years ago and I'm pretty sure they sound better than the Z305 today at the same price. How's that for longevity?
JManning - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link
The edifiers are decent, a little bit outdated though.. I've always been fond of Creative Gigaworks, but ended up jumping ship when I found the JBL Pebbles here http://www.pricenfees.com/category/speakers in their "best computer speakers under one-hundred dollars" guide. They're not specifically designed as laptop speakers, but they're small enough and sound great - Not too expensive either!jabber - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Tomorrow - Testing an old roller ball mouse I found behind a cupboard.jaredtrobinson - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Hey I like these quick little blurbs of a review. In fact I just ordered this product, so was quit pleased that they reviewed it :)jabber - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Yeah was only kidding.Sometimes its nice to see an odd product reviewed with a quick answer to "is it worth it or not?"
jaredtrobinson - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
it was funny though :)Hrel - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
For years I've wanted portable speakers that clip onto a laptop screen; these seem good. But I really don't want them behind the screen, for the reasons you listed. I want them to clip onto the sides, be very thin and have a port to plug in an optional Subwoofer; that would obviously require an outlet so you could only use the subwoofer in a limited number of situations but it'd still be nice to have the option. And for travel use the two clip on speakers ON THE SIDES OF THE SCREEN would work great.Something like the S-220 is EXACTLY what I'm looking for sound wise. For the size/price I'm amazed by the quality of those speakers. So If I could get those exact same 3 speakers (2 speakers and 1 subwoofer) I'd be willing to pay 50 bucks easy. Considering they cost 28 bucks right now I think 50 should be enough of a premium to satisfy the accountants at Logitech.
PLEASE LOGITECH MAKE THIS DREAM OF MINE COME TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hrel - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Oh also the X205 is 48 bucks on newegg right now, same exact set up. Z-305 is 58, prices include shipping.anactoraaron - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Uh I can't find an "X205" but there is a Z205. Best buy has it right now 39.99 with free shipping (not to mention local BB pickup) - NEWEGG FAIL. I am really disappointed how expensive Newegg has gotten on just about everything, especially since Best Buy of all places is almost always CHEAPER than the Egg - and you don't have to wait for it to be shipped either!Shop around, people! Newegg isn't the cheapest anymore!
Also- if there is to be no more audio reviews then PLEASE PLEASE just make us aware of new speakers/headphones and post it as a 1 page "news" column! Many of us still want to know what the latest and greatest is even if it's not in the form of a through review by AT's standards.
Gonemad - Wednesday, December 1, 2010 - link
Since I am talking about speakers for desktop replacement notebooks, I just reinstated a 2.1 30W RMS set, plugged it on the earphone jacks, and let it rip. The subwoofer isn't exactly portable, but the two 4" sattelite drivers can be placed apart for outstanding stereo separation. Hey, watch out the smoker over there ! *bang* nevermind. It is a bit cumbersome, with the wall wart 'n stuff, but the note isn't going anywhere soon.As far as real mobility goes it is either these reviewed speakers or tiny speakers with all of the 2,5W an USB port can output. (500mA x 5V) Don't expect any set to sound great on that amount of power. The earphones, otoh....
ckryan - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - link
I have read the last several audio product reviews and previews. I have not been one of the people who I guess are clamoring for the equivalent of a PSU review. Stuff like RTAs and the other associated audio testing equipment are both really expensive, and don't necessarily give an answer that translates into information that can be appreciated. So why give it up? If I don't like the subjective reviews of a product like this Logitech, I won't read this particular review. I won't cry about it. I'm not sure what it is that people actually want. Just because a product may have impeccable audio reproduction capabilities doesn't mean its something you'd want to listen to. Please, do not give up reviewing audio devices.How about this? Have a couple people listen to a device. Talk it over. Decide if it sucks or not.
What is it that people think they want to know that can't be provided without a $200k lab? Generally, if a clip on laptop system sounds pretty good for the money and the size, then that's it. How are you going to measure the THD? If this were professional sound reinforcement gear, maybe it would be warranted. If Logitech or Antec, or any other company sends you some gear, help some people out. Give it a once over. I swear, the most vocal critics of Anandtech's audio reviews must be the most likely to not have any idea what the hap's is. What are you going to do? "Say Logitech, we'd love to review this gear, but some of the people who read us are toolbags and don't like how we review stuff. Sorry." If Anandtech doesn't want to review some gear for one reason or another, then it's not my business. But if I have a say, I say continue on. Review whatever. If readers can be vocal in their opposition, then I can be vocal in my support. If anything, I'd like to see more reviews, not less.
7Enigma - Friday, December 3, 2010 - link
I have to agree with you on some level. I was a naysayer on these "reviews" because I felt there should be some objective component. With that said, the benefit of subjective reviews starts to increase when the number of samples increases. I think the problem many of us had was there was very little if any comparison on these products to other products. It was always, "my old Bose speakers put these to shame", etc. and that angered quite a few of us.But now having several similar products to compare from at least Dustin can start saying, "Subjectively, product X is better than A, B, and C", and even though not scientific in it's rigor, there is some worth to the "review".
So I say keep going, but start spending a bit more time now that you have a sample size on the comparisons between the products just as much as the products themselves.
rwei - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - link
...but what will you make recurring jokes about now???Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - link
I'd say the Sony Z series, but let's be realistic...Sony never sends anyone anything anyhow. ;)
Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - link
That's true, but I think even a baseball player can appreciate a good bargain.Scipio Africanus - Thursday, December 23, 2010 - link
What it takes to do decent testing is a Behringer ECM8000 mic and a phantom power source like a small mixer or a M-Audio MobilePre. Pair that with a good piece of software like TrueRTA or ETF and you have a good starting point. A treated room with bass traps and sound absorbing panels like Sonex would also be vital to eliminate standing waves and reflections. ETF is espcially good since it also does waterfall charts for transient response times.With a waterfall plot, frequency response, off-axis falloff, and SPL measured, you could do some great articles. There used to be a great site with a great forum dedicated to computer audio, but the name eludes me. There really hasn't been any good computer audio sites since that one went down.