Rembrandt will most likely use RDNA1 as AMD just recently submitted drivers to the Linux kernel for a new RDNA1 based APU. It is unlikely they are planning to release another APU given we have not heard any rumors to that effect. Though I would love to be wrong!
I have seen no indication of such a part from the roadmaps AMD has presented in the shareholder meetings. Every official roadmap has shown Van Gogh, Rembrandt and if I remember correctly, some other iteration of Renoir/Lucienne. Given that every previous embedded chip has just been a variation of the laptop/desktop SKUs, it is highly unlikely they would hide the existence of a new dedicated embedded chip from investors (they can get sued over that!).
I guess it could be a semicustom part where the customer wants open source Linux drivers?
Remember how all the late stage rumors claimed Renoir and then Cezanne would use RDNA1, while the early rumors for both claimed Vega? New rumors that pop up in the months leading up to a new chip launch claiming radical technology changes from previous rumors, such as a change in GPU architecture, are normally wrong/bogus.
It seems more realistic to temper expectations and assume Rembrandt will use RDNA1 given the driver submission, fact that all early rumors suggested so, and that it is the only other APU we know of that is releasing in the near future.
Just saw your post down below. I must have missed that Yellow Carp was for an APU as well. For some reason, I thought it was for the entry level discrete market.
Maybe I missed that there is a new embedded market chip (it's not like they get much news coverage) or it is a semicustom part like I suggested above. It seems too early for Yellow Carp to be for the Zen4 based APUs unless they are coming sooner than we think or AMD is starting to upstream driver work earlier.
The recent GPU driver additions were NOT for Rembrandt. My guess is that's from some as of yet unannounced custom/embedded part for a market/use case where die size is absolutely CRITICAL (the only reason to pick RDNA over RDNA 2 is raw transistor density), that we're seeing there. Rembrandt otoh has had explicitly "RDNA 2" based graphics IP literally since it very first appeared on leaked AMD roadmaps YEARS ago, and it's consistently stayed "RDNA 2" in every future appearance/leaked roadmap.
In fact with AMD's penchant for copy-pastaing reusable IP blocks across as many different products as they can, the iGPU implementation on Rembrandt is likely to be EXTREMELY similar to what is currently seen on Van Gogh (in fact, it wouldn't surprise me at ALL if they end up just sharing the exact same 8CU RDNA 2 iGPU block wholesale).
"Van Gogh is said to have eight compute units (CUs) per shader array with a 1 MB L2 cache while Rembrandt will have six CUs per shader array with 2 MB L2 cache, with the added cache possibly translating into improved gaming performance. It must be noted here that we still do not know the total number of CUs on the GPU, but rumors indicate up to 12 CUs for Rembrandt."
These APU's have my exact use case. Upgrading my HTPC which has trouble with HEVC codec (YouTube 4K) that can easily play PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Sega 32X/CD, etc, etc. Plus Space Engineers which none of my rigs can play at the moment. All done with the iGPU at 60+FPS or better , also some Xbox titles like Forza Horizon since I don't play on buying a Xbox X.
Second use is server. WIth a couple of VM's but mostly containers. Maybe throw a GPU in their for renting out GPU. All those threads will allow lots of functional task to be done.
In addition to what Dan said above your table entitled, "Ryzen 5 APUs (65W)" Is completely wrong. The 5600G is a 6 core processor and I suspect some of the other entries are incorrect also.
"The second part is a Ryzen 5 5600G, featuring six cores and sixteen threads, with a base frequency of 3.9 GHz and a turbo frequency of 4.6 GHz. " This sentence has suffered from some copy and pasting. 12 threads and 4.4 GHz boost.
There's a silly number of errors in the first page of this review. The 5600G does not have "8 cores". Intel didn't "cut" AMD products from the market. Cezanne processors don't use "Zen 3 graphics".
Please proof your work, we expect better from Anandtech.
If you've been around since Anand left, you really shouldn't. I don't know who's nominally in charge nowadays but they CBA to perform basic proofreading on most articles.
Rembrandt will have RDNA 2 and up to 12 CUs, which should provide acceptable 1080p performance. It will fall short of the Xbox Series S, but not by too much if the graphics clock is higher. It will also have DDR5, better I/O, AV1 decode, etc.
Imagine if a Ryzen 7 6700G (OEM) came out in the next 8 months or so.
As I mentioned above, Rembrandt will likely use RDNA1 instead of RDNA2. Drivers for an RDNA1 based APU were just submitted to the Linux kernel a few days ago.
since Van Gogh (Steam Deck) uses 8CU of RDNA2, I think the next generation of APU (Rembrandt) will also features 8CU. Although the moves to DDR5 and possible inclusion of 3D cache (similar to infinity cache) will help performance a lot.
Rembrandt should have up to 12 CUs. With higher bandwidth from DDR5, perhaps integrated graphics performance will be doubled from the 5800H/5700G. 1080p60 should be achievable in many games, with some settings turned down.
I do not expect Rembrandt to have Infinity Cache, 3D V-Cache, L4 cache/HBM, or increased cache whatsoever (Cezanne already doubled from Renoir, and quadrupled the amount each core could access). Any cache improvement would be a pleasant surprise.
The bottleneck is memory bandwidth. DDR5 will raise the iGPU performance roof by a substantial amount, but I hope for something like quad-channel OMI-esque Serial RAM.
I have just had a look at a Kaveri A10-7850K with DDR3-2400 (100 Watt desktop), a 5800U based notebook with LPDDR4 (1333MHz clock) and a Tiger Lake NUC with an i7-1165G7 with DDR4-3200.
The memory bandwidth differences between the Kaveri and the 5800U is absolutely minor, 38.4 GB/s for the Kaveri vs. 42.7GB/s for Cezanne (can't get the TigerLake figures right now, because it's running a Linux server, but it will be very similar).
The Kaveri and Cezanne iGPUs are both 512 shaders and apart from architectural improvements very much differ in clocks 720MHz vs. 2000MHz. The graphics performance difference on things like 3DMark scale pretty exactly with that clock difference.
Yet when Kaveri was launched, Anandtech noted that the 512 shader A10 variant had trouble to do better then the 384 shader APUs, because only with the very fastest RAM it could make these extra shaders pump out extra FPS.
When I compared the Cezanne iGPU against the TigerLake X2, both systems at tightly fixed 15 and 28Watts max power settings, TigerLake was around 50% faster on all synthetic GPU benchmarks.
The only explanation I have for these fantastic performance increases is much larger caches being very smartly used by breaking down GPU workloads to just fit within them, while prefetching the next tile of bitmaps into the cache in the background and likewise pushing processed tiles to the framebuffer RAM asynchronously to avoid stalling GPU pipelines.
And yet I'd agree that there really isn't much wiggling room left, you need exponential bandwidth to cover square resolution increases.
I also have an NUC8 with an 48EU (+128MB eDRAM) Iris 655 i7 and a NUC10 with an 24EU "no Iris" UHD i7. Even with twice the EUs and the extra eDRAM (which I believe can be used in parallel to the external DRAM), the Iris only gets a 50% performance increase.
The the 96EU TigerLake iGPU is doing so much better (better than linear scale over UHD) while it actually has somewhat less bandwidth (and higher latency) than the 50GB/s eDRAM provides for the 48EU Iris.
Meh, meant to say "in browser benchmarks". Browser is an important workload (for me at least) and the x86 crowd is already fairly weak versus Apple M1, so I'm not ready to throw away another 30% of browser perf.
There are only 3 browser tests and for two of them the 5700G is within a few percent of the 11700K. But otherwise, it's because these are laptop chips with higher TDP. The 11700K has a TDP of "125W" but hit 277W where the 5700G has a TDP of 65W and maxed out at 88W.
There is something up with the browser scores here anyways compared to what you see in the forum. All the post with similar desktop cpu's in that thread post much high scores than what is listed in the graph. I'm not sure its old browser version being used to keep scores inline with older reviews or something.
When you ask: "Why don't they release the four core variant?" you really should be able to answer that yourself!
There are simply not enough defective chips to make it viable just yet. Eventually they may accumulate, but as long as they are trying to produce an 8 core chip, 4 and 6 cores should remain the exception not the rule.
I'd really like to see them struggle putting the lesser chips out there, because it means my 8/16(/32/64) core chips are rock solid!
I would have liked to see full transistor counts of the 5800X and the 5700U side by side. My guess would be that the Cezanne dies even at 50% cache have more transistors overall, meaning you are getting many more pricey 7nm transistors per € on these APUs and should really pay a markup not a discount.
Well even the GF IO die fab capacity might have customers lined up these days, but in normal times those transistors should be much more commodity and cheaper and have the APU cost more in pure foundry (less in packaging) than the X-variants, while AMD wants to fit it into a below premium price slot where it really doesn't belong.
If AMD boosted chiplet/monolithic core count to 12, maybe 6 cores could become the new minimum with 10-core being a possibility. But it doesn't look like they plan to do that.
These might have been a stockpile of dies that were rejected for laptop use (High power consumption @ idle?) and they're being dumped into the market after AMD satisfied OEM demand for APU's.
Plus, considering that one of the main shortages is for substrates, it's possible that the substrate for the APU's is different - cheaper, higher volume, etc... as it doesn't need to interconnect discrete chiplets.
There are indeed so many variables and at least as many shortages these days. And it's becoming a playground for speculators, who are just looking for such fragilities in the suppy chain to extort money.
I remember some Kaveri type chips being sold by AMD, which had the GPU parts chopped off by virtue of being "borderline dies" on a round 300mm wafer. Eventually they also had enough of these chips with the CPU (and SoC) portion intact, to sell them as a "GPU-less APU".
Don't know if the general layout of the dies allows for such "halflings" on the left or right of a wafer...
For me, the fact that 5600X always beats 5600G is proof that the non-APUs' lack of an on-die memory controller is no real deficiency (nor is the fact that the I/O die is fabbed on an older process node).
The 5600X's bigger cache and boost could be helping it in that regard. But, yes, I don't think the on-die memory controller makes that much of a difference compared to the on-package one.
I wrote that knowing about the cache difference, but it's not going to help in all cases. If the on-die memory controller were a real benefit over having it on the I/O die, I'd expect to see at least a couple benchmarks where the 5600G outperformed the 5600X. However, they didn't switch places, even once!
I know the 5600X has a higher boost clock, but they're both 65W and the G has a higher base frequency. So, even on well-threaded, non-graphical benchmarks, it's quite telling that the G can never pass the X.
That's not relevant, since there were incredible differences in their uArch and fab nodes.
In this case, we get to see Zen 3 cores on the same manufacturing process. So, it should be a very well-controlled comparison. Still not perfect, but about as close as we're going to get.
Also, the memory controller is in-package, in both cases. The main difference of concern is whether or not it's integrated into the 7 nm compute die.
In agreement with what you are saying, even in my first comment. I think Cezanne shows that having the memory controller on the package gets the critical gains (vs. the old northbridge), and going onto the main die doesn't add much more.
As for K8 and Conroe, I always felt it was notable in that C2D was able to do such damage, even without an IMC. Back when K8 was the top dog, the tech press used to make a big deal about its IMC, as if there were no other improvements besides that.
One bad thing about moving it on-die is that this gave Intel an excuse to tie ECC memory support to the CPU, rather than just the motherboard. I had a regular Pentium 4 with ECC memory, and all it required was getting a motherboard that supported it.
As I recall, the main reason Intel lagged in moving it on-die is that they were still flirting with RAMBUS, which eventually went pretty much nowhere. At work, we built one dual-CPU machine that required RAMBUS memory, but that was about the only time I touched the stuff.
As for the benefits of moving it on-die, it was seen as one of the reasons Opteron was able to pull ahead of Pentium 4. Then, when Nehalem eventually did it, it was seen as one of the reasons for its dominance over Core 2.
Intel has a fondness for technologies that go nowhere. RAMBUS was supposed to unlock the true power of the Pentium 4, whatever that meant. Well, the Willamette I used for a decade had plain SDRAM, not even DDR. But that was a downgrade, after my Athlon 64 3000+ gave up the ghost (cheapline PSU). That was DDR400. Incidentally, when the problems began, they were RAM related. Oh, those beeps!
> RAMBUS was supposed to unlock the true power of the Pentium 4
I think Intel underestimated what the DDR consortium was capable of doing. Perhaps they were right, as the DDR makers were eventually forced to license some RAMBUS patents, as I recall.
> the Willamette I used for a decade had plain SDRAM, not even DDR.
Northwood was the best. Sadly, I bought a Prescott because I wanted hyperthreading and hoped the 2x L2 cache would compensate for the longer pipeline. But, it turns out you could even get hyperthreading and 800 MHz FSB, in a couple Northwoods. I also thought SSE3 might be useful, but never got around to doing anything with it.
For me, both the Prescott and A64 were available, but I went with the latter because I always wanted an Athlon. Originally, was looking at the XP 3200+ and dreamt of coupling that with an nForce2 motherboard. As for Northwood, masterpiece of a CPU. P4 would have put up a respectable defence against the A64 had they continued with it. My aunt had a 2.4 GHz Northwood back then, and my school friend a 2.66 GHz one. His struggled at first, but once he got more RAM and a GeForce FX 5700, it really flew. Still remember running through Delta Labs in Doom 3 at 60 fps!
Prescott was rumored to have 64-bit support, though it wasn't enabled. I think that explains some of the additional pipeline depth.
When Core 2 first launched, I was skeptical the IPC could increase so much that so much lower-clocked CPUs would really outperform their predecessors. It took me a little while to fully accept it. I was hopeful the final 65 nm iteration of Pentium 4 would finally let the Netburst architecture stretch its legs, but even that couldn't overcome its inefficiencies and other deficits.
Quite likely. Come to think of it, didn't the Pentium Ds have x64? And they were Prescotts.
Indeed, 65 nm might have taken Northwood further. Would've made an interesting processor which we'll never see. As for their 31-stage brethren, the 65 nm Cedar Mills dropped power a fair bit.
I know how hard it is to actually publish something that is both excellently researched and at a moment the matter is still relevant. Thank you for your coverage.
Plus, it's Anantech, the important parts here are the data and analysis, not how well a tired writer proofreads their own text.
I disagree. any researcher would say that proofreading are also as important as the analysis itself. it's how you serve the data and the analysis to broader audience, after all.
Under the table on p1 "The top part is a Ryzen 7 5700G, featuring eight cores and sixteen threads, with a base frequency of 3.8 GHz and a turbo frequency of 4.6 GHz. The Vega 8 graphics runs at 2000 MHz, and we get 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 for graphics, plus another four for storage." Not so -AFAIK - all apus have 8 lanes for the graphics pcie slot.
anand made the same mistake on a previous apu review as i recall. its very misleading.
nope, the connection to GPU were different according to the package. any APUs packaged on AM4 will have x16 PCIe 3.0 connection—always has been since Raven Ridge.
for laptop, FP6 and previous package were limited to x8 PCIe 3.0 connection for the GPU.
Tested this now on a 2200G. Taking the Elysium trailer, I encoded a 10-second clip in H.264, H.265, and AV1 using FFmpeg. The original frame rate was 23.976, so using the -r switch, got it up to 120. Also, scaled the video from 3840x1606 to 3840x2160, and kept the audio (DTS-MA, 8 ch). On MPC-HC, they all ran smoothly. Rough CPU/GPU usage:
H.264: 25% | 20% H.265: 6% | 21% AV1: 60% | 20%
So if Raven Ridge can hold up at 4K/120, Cezanne should have no problem. Note that the video was downscaled during playback, owing to the screen not being 4K. Not sure if that made it easier. 8K, choppy. And VLC, lower GPU usage but got stuck on the AV1 clip.
Something else I found. 10-bit H.264 seems to be going through software/CPU decoding, whereas 8-bit is running through the hardware, dropping CPU usage down to 6/8%. H.265 hasn't got the same problem. It could be the driver, the hardware, the player, or my computer.
> 10-bit H.264 seems to be going through software/CPU decoding ... > It could be the driver, the hardware, the player
It's quite likely the driver or a GPU hardware limitation. There's some nonzero chance it's the player, but I'd bet the player tries to use acceleration and then only falls back on software when that fails.
> the video was downscaled during playback, owing to the screen not being 4K. > Not sure if that made it easier.
Not usually. I only have detailed knowledge of H.264, where hierarchical encoding is mostly aimed at adapting to different bitrates. That would never be enabled by default, because not only is it more work for the encoder, but it's also poorly supported by decoders and generates slightly less efficient bitstreams.
That could be x264's b-pyramid, which, I think, is enabled most of the time. Apparently, allows B-frames to be used as references, saving bits. The stricter setting limits it to the Bluray spec.
The only way the decoder can opt to do less work is by discarding some layers of a SVC-encoded H.264 stream. Under any other circumstance, the decoder can't take any shortcuts without introducing a cascade of errors in all of the frames which reference the one being decoded.
> The stricter setting limits it to the Bluray spec.
I think blu-ray mainly limits which profiles (which are a collection of compression techniques) and levels (i.e. bitrates & resolutions) can be used, so that the bitstream can be decoded by all players and can be streamed off the disc fast enough.
I once tried authoring valid blu-ray video dics, but the consumer-grade tools were too limiting and the free tools were a mess to figure out and use. In the end, I found simply copying MPEG-2.ts files on a BD-R would play it every player I tested. I was mainly interested in using it for a few videos shot on a phone, plus a few things I recorded from broadcast TV.
SVC sounds pretty interesting, and the idea of layered encoding is becoming more common in today's codecs. I'd expect that H.265/6 and AV1 took it further. At least in their standards. Implementation is another story. Also reminds me of HE-AAC's extensions, the spectral band stuff and parametric stereo, which are just ignored by older decoders.
Even for files played on a TV, you've got to follow the profiles and levels, otherwise it just doesn't work. Our Samsung TV, I think I'm limited to H.264 profile high, level 4.1. Lamentably, it doesn't support H.265, which means re-encoding.
Solid CPU performance as expected, but a bit disappointing in the GPU department, and pricing could be better. The 5300G looks like an impressive little fellow as well, perhaps even the star of today's show.
Every time I see the peak-power charts it amazes me how can anyone considers Intel these days. 28W burning 51W 125W burning 277W; and slower than the 5800X @ 140W.
It's always worth noting that the peak power on Intel chips is pretty pathological, and they tend to not go quite so high under ordinary loads. They're still lousy compared to AMD on perf/W, but they're a little better than 50% of AMD.
Is it possible that a follow-up could be done assessing the performance impact of RAM speeds? I'd really love to know whether it's possible to get more out of the 5300G and the 5700G in particular - potentially enough to get 60fps at 1080p with some moderate sacrifices to detail settings.
Yeah, but its iGPU is still 8 CUs. I think it's telling they went with 1280x800 resolution. Probably enough for a screen that size, and framerates are reportedly good.
I do kinda wish they'd gone with a bigger iGPU, but maybe silicon prices these days pushed too hard against that. I think their goal should be to counter a plausible next-gen Nintendo Switch, and I'm not confident they got there.
Unlike Sony & MS, Valve can't afford to sell the hardware at a loss. The upside of that is that Valve isn't making it a walled garden. So, you should be able to load and run non-Steam software on it!
Compared to everything else in that form factor, it should be great. You probably won't be able to run most modern games at High and hit a solid 60FPS, or perhaps even 30FPS. But Medium might work. Meanwhile the competition is on Low with a few extra tweaks, and running games specifically designed for it (and likely costing a lot more). Heck, you might even be able to emulate them.
i've used a prebuilt 5700G system, and for some reason, the Intel rocket lake runs smoother in certain applications like stock trading and java based apps. The only downside is that Intel is a power hog
Now, imagine if those 5700 APUs would have kept the core numbers of the 3400, but clocked at current speeds. I hope that Intel will bring its 10 nm Desktop CPUs with the full Xe compliment of mobile Tiger Lake, as that might force AMD to up its game; well, the next APU generation will be RDNA2, so as long as AMD doesn't gimp it by keeping the GPU tiny, it should have significant uplift over Cézanne
Far Cry 5 running at ≈25fps on average at "1080p Ultra" is actually CRAZY freaking impressive. Why? Because that means it should hit a solid >=30fps running at "1080p High", which basically means that this single chip APU solution is outperforming BOTH of the last generation console base models (aka PS4 & Xbox One/S) in this title!!! That's freaking NUTS!!!
Every other source I've read states the pcie configuration as 24 lanes divided into 16, 4 and 4 just like the 4000G series. Do you have a source for this 8+4+8 configuration?
Anand wasn't perfect with proofing either but he was thorough on deep dives, exposing bottlenecks and explaining how and why it was relevant. These days Ian and co assume that if we're Anandtech readers we just trust their methodology and do some lip service by adding cut&paste boilerplate around specs and throw in an image sometimes from a past review, sometimes not directly relevant, and I get that they only have so much time to invest. It bores me, and it doesn't give the new people the same level of engagement that will built their future audience. Oh welles.
They're starting strong, because it's a lot easier to lower prices than raise them, and that pricing reflects the supply/demand situation, especially when the 3000-gen are still widely available.
Over time, I'm sure you can expect to see the gap close, particularly since the process node is the same and die sizes are similar.
My humble 2200G is running well, but eventually, when I've got money to spare, I'd like to get something like a 5600G. Encoding performance is close to tripled, which is attractive. Heck, even the 5300G looks quite nice.
That's true. The Ryzen APU's have been so ridiculously fast for generations that even a 2018-era CPU is entirely competitive today. It isn't like games are going to play that much different - we'll have to see how demanding Battlefield 2042 is.
The "Ryzen 5 APUs (65W)" table is still mixed up. The 5600G isn't an 8 core APU. Neither is the 4650G. You should probably double check the other quoted specs.
Spelling and grammar errors:
"The Ryzen 7 5700G has the quickest thread-to-thread latency, however does offer a single slowest core-to-core latency." Incorrect grammar: "The Ryzen 7 5700G has the smallest thread-to-thread latency. However, it also offers the single slowest core-to-core latency."
"Interestingly this processor uses more power when six cores are loaded." Missing comma: "Interestingly, this processor uses more power when six cores are loaded."
"Photoscan shows good gen-on-gen performance uplifts, with the 5700G on par with the 11700K despite being lower powered." Incorrect grammar: "Photoscan shows good gen-on-gen performance uplifts, with the 5700G on par with the 11700K despite using less power."
"GIMP is a funny test where it gets harder the more cores you have - that's why the quad cores win here. However slow quad cores (like the 2400G still let you down." Missing paranthesis: "GIMP is a funny test where it gets harder the more cores you have - that's why the quad cores win here. However slow quad cores (like the 2400G,) still let you down."
"We're still running the tests for the Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 3 5300G, but the Ryzen 7 5700G scores strong." "Strongly" is how you score: "We're still running the tests for the Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 3 5300G, but the Ryzen 7 5700G scores strongly."
"Historically a processor with integrated graphics fit the bill." Missing comma: "Historically, a processor with integrated graphics fit the bill."
"... then someone like my father can browse the web and do office stuff on his 32-inch display and join the weekly family zoom call without having to sit there for the system to respond." Sitting is what we normally do unless we have a standing desk: "... then someone like my father can browse the web and do office stuff on his 32-inch display and join the weekly family zoom call without having to wait around for the system to respond."
"The problem with these though is that the 5300G isn't coming to market, at something like $159." Missing comma: "The problem with these though, is that the 5300G isn't coming to market, at something like $159."
"However it is not always the silicon that matters." Missing comma: "However, it is not always the silicon that matters."
"In the same way that every year we get more performance, every year the required specifications for modern games go up." "goes" not "go". "In the same way that every year we get more performance, every year the required specifications for modern games goes up."
"Not only that but new technologies such as AMD?s Fidelity SuperFX Resolution are aimed at getting a better experience with less compute power." Missing comma: "Not only that, but new technologies such as AMD?s Fidelity SuperFX Resolution are aimed at getting a better experience with less compute power."
"Moving up to Zen 3 with a larger L3 cache has really unlocked more of the performance in these cores and in the graphics." You should qualify the type of graphics considiring the closeness of the "in": "Moving up to Zen 3 with a larger L3 cache has really unlocked more of the performance in these cores and in the integrated graphics."
"The question on that then becomes how much extra will it cost,..." Missing comma: "The question on that then becomes, how much extra will it cost,..."
Lots of pent-up demand for these APUs. I was impressed that AMD actually got them out in quantity on the release date! In fact, judging by seeing the US AMD store fully stocked with CPUs, including these, for several days running, now, I think it might be safe to say that the CPU shortage--at least for AMD CPUs--is finally coming to an end. AMD store is selling them all for MSRP--so there's no room for scalpers! Perhaps this means the GPU shortages are not long for this world--we can hope.
I noticed even the R9 5950X is in stock (Newegg even has it on sale for $805), but we don't know for how long. I'm guessing AMD gets wafers in batches, which leaves open the possibility of another dry spell before long.
According to the AMD published specs, this APU only supports PCIe gen3. So, that hot, expensive Gen 4 M.2 NVMe SSD you want to use on your new motherboard will not achieve the speed you paid dearly for.
> that hot, expensive Gen 4 M.2 NVMe SSD you want to use on your new > motherboard will not achieve the speed you paid dearly for.
None of the 1st gen PCIe 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSDs did, in fact. A lot of them still don't. And if you're not running it at PCIe 4.0, then it's probably also running a bit cooler.
Currently 5600G and 5600X are at the same price in my country. Should I get the 5600G? I already have a GPU so having an integrated one is only useful in case the GPU breaks or needs to go under warranty and I still can use the PC...
I wouldn't get the G. The X is faster in every single benchmark, and sometimes substantially! Plus, you get PCIe 4.0, in case that's ever of interest.
If you just want a backup GPU, so you're not completely dead in the water, then maybe pick up a used low-end model (especially when GPU prices cool off, a bit). I'm seeing used RX 550's for < $100, which is roughly performance-equivalent.
If you don't care about performance, then you can go even older. I have a HD 5450 as a sort of last-resort fallback, and those are CHEAP! That's pre-GCN, but I know it still works on Linux. I think it shouldn't be too hard to find something a bit newer that's also cheap, though. Or, if you have some friends who would loan you an obsolete GPU in a pinch, that's also an option worth considering.
There is indeed a page on power consumption, but the most revealing charts only compared the three AMD 5000G-series processors to each other. That was a painful omission.
Intel got included in the peak power chart, but we all know that peak power is hardly the whole story.
Indeed, there is no page on performance-per-watt — and the article continues this site’s erroneous tradition of claiming that getting a slightly higher score in a benchmark whilst using a ton more power constitutes a victory.
Context is key. These articles should pay more mind to practical context, rather than things like pumping 1.45 volts into Rocket Lake and ignoring power consumption failure (vis-a-vis the competition) when examining a benchmark.
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DanNeely - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
"What makes these ones different this time around is that Intel is cutting the Ryzen 3 from retail,"AND here, not Intel.
dwillmore - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
And they use Zen3 *processors*, not graphics.Rudde - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
“As it stands, these two new processors at retail fill out Intel’s retail offerings, at least down to $259.”Again, it is AMD's retail offerings.
at_clucks - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Intel features prominently at the forefront of Ian's conscious mind. :)abufrejoval - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
I thought that was pretty funny, but after so many years of reviewing CPUs perhaps it does become a bit tiresome.This chips would have made a huge wave two years ago and still received raving reviews a year ago.
Today it's still excellent, but no longer that exciting.
Good value, through.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Vega is showing its age. We all know the next big APU is Rembrandt with RDNA 2 graphics. After that, maybe Strix Point (rumored big/little).vlad42 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Rembrandt will most likely use RDNA1 as AMD just recently submitted drivers to the Linux kernel for a new RDNA1 based APU. It is unlikely they are planning to release another APU given we have not heard any rumors to that effect. Though I would love to be wrong!nandnandnand - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
No, it will use RDNA 2, just like Van Gogh (Steam Deck). That RDNA 1 APU is probably some embedded part.vlad42 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
I have seen no indication of such a part from the roadmaps AMD has presented in the shareholder meetings. Every official roadmap has shown Van Gogh, Rembrandt and if I remember correctly, some other iteration of Renoir/Lucienne. Given that every previous embedded chip has just been a variation of the laptop/desktop SKUs, it is highly unlikely they would hide the existence of a new dedicated embedded chip from investors (they can get sued over that!).I guess it could be a semicustom part where the customer wants open source Linux drivers?
Remember how all the late stage rumors claimed Renoir and then Cezanne would use RDNA1, while the early rumors for both claimed Vega? New rumors that pop up in the months leading up to a new chip launch claiming radical technology changes from previous rumors, such as a change in GPU architecture, are normally wrong/bogus.
It seems more realistic to temper expectations and assume Rembrandt will use RDNA1 given the driver submission, fact that all early rumors suggested so, and that it is the only other APU we know of that is releasing in the near future.
vlad42 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Just saw your post down below. I must have missed that Yellow Carp was for an APU as well. For some reason, I thought it was for the entry level discrete market.Maybe I missed that there is a new embedded market chip (it's not like they get much news coverage) or it is a semicustom part like I suggested above. It seems too early for Yellow Carp to be for the Zen4 based APUs unless they are coming sooner than we think or AMD is starting to upstream driver work earlier.
Cooe - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
The recent GPU driver additions were NOT for Rembrandt. My guess is that's from some as of yet unannounced custom/embedded part for a market/use case where die size is absolutely CRITICAL (the only reason to pick RDNA over RDNA 2 is raw transistor density), that we're seeing there. Rembrandt otoh has had explicitly "RDNA 2" based graphics IP literally since it very first appeared on leaked AMD roadmaps YEARS ago, and it's consistently stayed "RDNA 2" in every future appearance/leaked roadmap.In fact with AMD's penchant for copy-pastaing reusable IP blocks across as many different products as they can, the iGPU implementation on Rembrandt is likely to be EXTREMELY similar to what is currently seen on Van Gogh (in fact, it wouldn't surprise me at ALL if they end up just sharing the exact same 8CU RDNA 2 iGPU block wholesale).
nandnandnand - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-6000-Rembr..."Van Gogh is said to have eight compute units (CUs) per shader array with a 1 MB L2 cache while Rembrandt will have six CUs per shader array with 2 MB L2 cache, with the added cache possibly translating into improved gaming performance. It must be noted here that we still do not know the total number of CUs on the GPU, but rumors indicate up to 12 CUs for Rembrandt."
AThomas - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
These APU's have my exact use case. Upgrading my HTPC which has trouble with HEVC codec (YouTube 4K) that can easily play PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Sega 32X/CD, etc, etc. Plus Space Engineers which none of my rigs can play at the moment. All done with the iGPU at 60+FPS or better , also some Xbox titles like Forza Horizon since I don't play on buying a Xbox X.Second use is server. WIth a couple of VM's but mostly containers. Maybe throw a GPU in their for renting out GPU. All those threads will allow lots of functional task to be done.
Jorgp2 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
AMDs APUs don't support GPU virtualizationGreenReaper - Sunday, August 15, 2021 - link
Not yet, no.boozed - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Are you sure?eastcoast_pete - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Hush now! Ian was spilling Intel's newest acquisition plans..ballsystemlord - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
In addition to what Dan said above your table entitled, "Ryzen 5 APUs (65W)" Is completely wrong. The 5600G is a 6 core processor and I suspect some of the other entries are incorrect also.Rudde - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
"The second part is a Ryzen 5 5600G, featuring six cores and sixteen threads, with a base frequency of 3.9 GHz and a turbo frequency of 4.6 GHz. "This sentence has suffered from some copy and pasting. 12 threads and 4.4 GHz boost.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
"However slow quad cores (like the 2400G still let you down."Missing closing parenthesis mark.
linuxgeex - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
There's a silly number of errors in the first page of this review. The 5600G does not have "8 cores". Intel didn't "cut" AMD products from the market. Cezanne processors don't use "Zen 3 graphics".Please proof your work, we expect better from Anandtech.
The_Assimilator - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
"we expect better from Anandtech"If you've been around since Anand left, you really shouldn't. I don't know who's nominally in charge nowadays but they CBA to perform basic proofreading on most articles.
Machinus - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
When are we going to see 16-20 CUs? Then you could really say you're replacing a GPU.nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Rembrandt will have RDNA 2 and up to 12 CUs, which should provide acceptable 1080p performance. It will fall short of the Xbox Series S, but not by too much if the graphics clock is higher. It will also have DDR5, better I/O, AV1 decode, etc.Imagine if a Ryzen 7 6700G (OEM) came out in the next 8 months or so.
cigar3tte - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Will Rembrandt run on AM4 still?nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
DDR5 = AM5. In fact, maybe it will end up being the very first CPUs on AM5.vlad42 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
As I mentioned above, Rembrandt will likely use RDNA1 instead of RDNA2. Drivers for an RDNA1 based APU were just submitted to the Linux kernel a few days ago.nandnandnand - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
See above. Rembrandt will use RDNA 2. It might be referred to as "Yellow Carp".https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-begins-to-en...
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a...
Fulljack - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
since Van Gogh (Steam Deck) uses 8CU of RDNA2, I think the next generation of APU (Rembrandt) will also features 8CU. Although the moves to DDR5 and possible inclusion of 3D cache (similar to infinity cache) will help performance a lot.This is all are rumour, though.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Rembrandt should have up to 12 CUs. With higher bandwidth from DDR5, perhaps integrated graphics performance will be doubled from the 5800H/5700G. 1080p60 should be achievable in many games, with some settings turned down.I do not expect Rembrandt to have Infinity Cache, 3D V-Cache, L4 cache/HBM, or increased cache whatsoever (Cezanne already doubled from Renoir, and quadrupled the amount each core could access). Any cache improvement would be a pleasant surprise.
Wereweeb - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
The bottleneck is memory bandwidth. DDR5 will raise the iGPU performance roof by a substantial amount, but I hope for something like quad-channel OMI-esque Serial RAM.abufrejoval - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
I'd say so, too, but...I have just had a look at a Kaveri A10-7850K with DDR3-2400 (100 Watt desktop), a 5800U based notebook with LPDDR4 (1333MHz clock) and a Tiger Lake NUC with an i7-1165G7 with DDR4-3200.
The memory bandwidth differences between the Kaveri and the 5800U is absolutely minor, 38.4 GB/s for the Kaveri vs. 42.7GB/s for Cezanne (can't get the TigerLake figures right now, because it's running a Linux server, but it will be very similar).
The Kaveri and Cezanne iGPUs are both 512 shaders and apart from architectural improvements very much differ in clocks 720MHz vs. 2000MHz. The graphics performance difference on things like 3DMark scale pretty exactly with that clock difference.
Yet when Kaveri was launched, Anandtech noted that the 512 shader A10 variant had trouble to do better then the 384 shader APUs, because only with the very fastest RAM it could make these extra shaders pump out extra FPS.
When I compared the Cezanne iGPU against the TigerLake X2, both systems at tightly fixed 15 and 28Watts max power settings, TigerLake was around 50% faster on all synthetic GPU benchmarks.
The only explanation I have for these fantastic performance increases is much larger caches being very smartly used by breaking down GPU workloads to just fit within them, while prefetching the next tile of bitmaps into the cache in the background and likewise pushing processed tiles to the framebuffer RAM asynchronously to avoid stalling GPU pipelines.
And yet I'd agree that there really isn't much wiggling room left, you need exponential bandwidth to cover square resolution increases.
abufrejoval - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
need edit!Is TigerLake Xe, not X2.
Another data point:
I also have an NUC8 with an 48EU (+128MB eDRAM) Iris 655 i7 and a NUC10 with an 24EU "no Iris" UHD i7. Even with twice the EUs and the extra eDRAM (which I believe can be used in parallel to the external DRAM), the Iris only gets a 50% performance increase.
The the 96EU TigerLake iGPU is doing so much better (better than linear scale over UHD) while it actually has somewhat less bandwidth (and higher latency) than the 50GB/s eDRAM provides for the 48EU Iris.
bwj - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Why are these parts getting stomped by Intel and their non-graphics Ryzen siblings?bwj - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Meh, meant to say "in browser benchmarks". Browser is an important workload (for me at least) and the x86 crowd is already fairly weak versus Apple M1, so I'm not ready to throw away another 30% of browser perf.Lezmaka - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
There are only 3 browser tests and for two of them the 5700G is within a few percent of the 11700K. But otherwise, it's because these are laptop chips with higher TDP. The 11700K has a TDP of "125W" but hit 277W where the 5700G has a TDP of 65W and maxed out at 88W.Makaveli - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
There is something up with the browser scores here anyways compared to what you see in the forum. All the post with similar desktop cpu's in that thread post much high scores than what is listed in the graph. I'm not sure its old browser version being used to keep scores inline with older reviews or something.https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/how-fast-is-y...
abufrejoval - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
When you ask: "Why don't they release the four core variant?" you really should be able to answer that yourself!There are simply not enough defective chips to make it viable just yet. Eventually they may accumulate, but as long as they are trying to produce an 8 core chip, 4 and 6 cores should remain the exception not the rule.
I'd really like to see them struggle putting the lesser chips out there, because it means my 8/16(/32/64) core chips are rock solid!
I would have liked to see full transistor counts of the 5800X and the 5700U side by side. My guess would be that the Cezanne dies even at 50% cache have more transistors overall, meaning you are getting many more pricey 7nm transistors per € on these APUs and should really pay a markup not a discount.
Well even the GF IO die fab capacity might have customers lined up these days, but in normal times those transistors should be much more commodity and cheaper and have the APU cost more in pure foundry (less in packaging) than the X-variants, while AMD wants to fit it into a below premium price slot where it really doesn't belong.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
If AMD boosted chiplet/monolithic core count to 12, maybe 6 cores could become the new minimum with 10-core being a possibility. But it doesn't look like they plan to do that.Wereweeb - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
These might have been a stockpile of dies that were rejected for laptop use (High power consumption @ idle?) and they're being dumped into the market after AMD satisfied OEM demand for APU's.Plus, considering that one of the main shortages is for substrates, it's possible that the substrate for the APU's is different - cheaper, higher volume, etc... as it doesn't need to interconnect discrete chiplets.
abufrejoval - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
There are indeed so many variables and at least as many shortages these days. And it's becoming a playground for speculators, who are just looking for such fragilities in the suppy chain to extort money.I remember some Kaveri type chips being sold by AMD, which had the GPU parts chopped off by virtue of being "borderline dies" on a round 300mm wafer. Eventually they also had enough of these chips with the CPU (and SoC) portion intact, to sell them as a "GPU-less APU".
Don't know if the general layout of the dies allows for such "halflings" on the left or right of a wafer...
mode_13h - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Ian, please publish the source of 3DPM, preferably to github, gitlab, etc.mode_13h - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
For me, the fact that 5600X always beats 5600G is proof that the non-APUs' lack of an on-die memory controller is no real deficiency (nor is the fact that the I/O die is fabbed on an older process node).GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
The 5600X's bigger cache and boost could be helping it in that regard. But, yes, I don't think the on-die memory controller makes that much of a difference compared to the on-package one.mode_13h - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
I wrote that knowing about the cache difference, but it's not going to help in all cases. If the on-die memory controller were a real benefit over having it on the I/O die, I'd expect to see at least a couple benchmarks where the 5600G outperformed the 5600X. However, they didn't switch places, even once!I know the 5600X has a higher boost clock, but they're both 65W and the G has a higher base frequency. So, even on well-threaded, non-graphical benchmarks, it's quite telling that the G can never pass the X.
GeoffreyA - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Remember how the Core 2 Duo left the Athlon 64 dead on the floor? And that was without an on-die MC.mode_13h - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
That's not relevant, since there were incredible differences in their uArch and fab nodes.In this case, we get to see Zen 3 cores on the same manufacturing process. So, it should be a very well-controlled comparison. Still not perfect, but about as close as we're going to get.
Also, the memory controller is in-package, in both cases. The main difference of concern is whether or not it's integrated into the 7 nm compute die.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
In agreement with what you are saying, even in my first comment. I think Cezanne shows that having the memory controller on the package gets the critical gains (vs. the old northbridge), and going onto the main die doesn't add much more.As for K8 and Conroe, I always felt it was notable in that C2D was able to do such damage, even without an IMC. Back when K8 was the top dog, the tech press used to make a big deal about its IMC, as if there were no other improvements besides that.
mode_13h - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
One bad thing about moving it on-die is that this gave Intel an excuse to tie ECC memory support to the CPU, rather than just the motherboard. I had a regular Pentium 4 with ECC memory, and all it required was getting a motherboard that supported it.As I recall, the main reason Intel lagged in moving it on-die is that they were still flirting with RAMBUS, which eventually went pretty much nowhere. At work, we built one dual-CPU machine that required RAMBUS memory, but that was about the only time I touched the stuff.
As for the benefits of moving it on-die, it was seen as one of the reasons Opteron was able to pull ahead of Pentium 4. Then, when Nehalem eventually did it, it was seen as one of the reasons for its dominance over Core 2.
GeoffreyA - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
Intel has a fondness for technologies that go nowhere. RAMBUS was supposed to unlock the true power of the Pentium 4, whatever that meant. Well, the Willamette I used for a decade had plain SDRAM, not even DDR. But that was a downgrade, after my Athlon 64 3000+ gave up the ghost (cheapline PSU). That was DDR400. Incidentally, when the problems began, they were RAM related. Oh, those beeps!mode_13h - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
> RAMBUS was supposed to unlock the true power of the Pentium 4I think Intel underestimated what the DDR consortium was capable of doing. Perhaps they were right, as the DDR makers were eventually forced to license some RAMBUS patents, as I recall.
> the Willamette I used for a decade had plain SDRAM, not even DDR.
Northwood was the best. Sadly, I bought a Prescott because I wanted hyperthreading and hoped the 2x L2 cache would compensate for the longer pipeline. But, it turns out you could even get hyperthreading and 800 MHz FSB, in a couple Northwoods. I also thought SSE3 might be useful, but never got around to doing anything with it.
BTW, I also used DDR400 in my P4.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
For me, both the Prescott and A64 were available, but I went with the latter because I always wanted an Athlon. Originally, was looking at the XP 3200+ and dreamt of coupling that with an nForce2 motherboard. As for Northwood, masterpiece of a CPU. P4 would have put up a respectable defence against the A64 had they continued with it. My aunt had a 2.4 GHz Northwood back then, and my school friend a 2.66 GHz one. His struggled at first, but once he got more RAM and a GeForce FX 5700, it really flew. Still remember running through Delta Labs in Doom 3 at 60 fps!mode_13h - Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - link
Prescott was rumored to have 64-bit support, though it wasn't enabled. I think that explains some of the additional pipeline depth.When Core 2 first launched, I was skeptical the IPC could increase so much that so much lower-clocked CPUs would really outperform their predecessors. It took me a little while to fully accept it. I was hopeful the final 65 nm iteration of Pentium 4 would finally let the Netburst architecture stretch its legs, but even that couldn't overcome its inefficiencies and other deficits.
GeoffreyA - Friday, August 13, 2021 - link
Quite likely. Come to think of it, didn't the Pentium Ds have x64? And they were Prescotts.Indeed, 65 nm might have taken Northwood further. Would've made an interesting processor which we'll never see. As for their 31-stage brethren, the 65 nm Cedar Mills dropped power a fair bit.
GeoffreyA - Friday, August 13, 2021 - link
"65 nm might have taken Northwood further"Well, we didn't even get to see a 90 nm one.
coolrock2008 - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Ryzen 5 APUs Table, there is a typo. the 5600G is listed as an 8 core part whereas its listed as a 6 core part in the previous table.Wereweeb - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
I know how hard it is to actually publish something that is both excellently researched and at a moment the matter is still relevant. Thank you for your coverage.Plus, it's Anantech, the important parts here are the data and analysis, not how well a tired writer proofreads their own text.
Fulljack - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
I disagree. any researcher would say that proofreading are also as important as the analysis itself. it's how you serve the data and the analysis to broader audience, after all.dsplover - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Three times the IPC of my beloved i7 4790k’s. I’ll try one, maybe a few as I don’t need the fastest.The cooler, fast enough is fine for my 1U builds.
Thanks AMD. Tiger Lake never appeared, you win.
dsplover - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
I meant 30% more IPC…mode_13h - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Thanks for the correction. That was a real head-scratcher!msroadkill612 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Under the table on p1"The top part is a Ryzen 7 5700G, featuring eight cores and sixteen threads, with a base frequency of 3.8 GHz and a turbo frequency of 4.6 GHz. The Vega 8 graphics runs at 2000 MHz, and we get 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 for graphics, plus another four for storage."
Not so -AFAIK - all apus have 8 lanes for the graphics pcie slot.
anand made the same mistake on a previous apu review as i recall. its very misleading.
nanonan - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
The 4000G series have 16 lanes and so do these, it was not misleading at all as far as I can tell.Fulljack - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
nope, the connection to GPU were different according to the package. any APUs packaged on AM4 will have x16 PCIe 3.0 connection—always has been since Raven Ridge.for laptop, FP6 and previous package were limited to x8 PCIe 3.0 connection for the GPU.
pman6 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
will have to wait for 6000G, since this has old ass graphics with no AV1 decoding support. Enjoy your choppy 4k/8k videonandnandnand - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
~2x graphics performance, AV1 decode, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, USB4, and possibly a Zen 3+ IPC increase.GreenReaper - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Yeah... they're good CPUs, but not the one to get if you're buying something to use for the next decade.GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Possibly the best for AM4 folk that want an APU.GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Can't comment on 8K, but 4K runs smoothly even on an old 2200G.pman6 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
not 4k60 AV1 it doesn't. Or it uses a lot of cpu resourcesGeoffreyA - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Okay, that makes sense.19434949 - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Do you know if 5600G or 5700G can output 4k 120fps movie/video playback?GeoffreyA - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
Tested this now on a 2200G. Taking the Elysium trailer, I encoded a 10-second clip in H.264, H.265, and AV1 using FFmpeg. The original frame rate was 23.976, so using the -r switch, got it up to 120. Also, scaled the video from 3840x1606 to 3840x2160, and kept the audio (DTS-MA, 8 ch). On MPC-HC, they all ran smoothly. Rough CPU/GPU usage:H.264: 25% | 20%
H.265: 6% | 21%
AV1: 60% | 20%
So if Raven Ridge can hold up at 4K/120, Cezanne should have no problem. Note that the video was downscaled during playback, owing to the screen not being 4K. Not sure if that made it easier. 8K, choppy. And VLC, lower GPU usage but got stuck on the AV1 clip.
GeoffreyA - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
Something else I found. 10-bit H.264 seems to be going through software/CPU decoding, whereas 8-bit is running through the hardware, dropping CPU usage down to 6/8%. H.265 hasn't got the same problem. It could be the driver, the hardware, the player, or my computer.mode_13h - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
> 10-bit H.264 seems to be going through software/CPU decoding...
> It could be the driver, the hardware, the player
It's quite likely the driver or a GPU hardware limitation. There's some nonzero chance it's the player, but I'd bet the player tries to use acceleration and then only falls back on software when that fails.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
Yes, quite likely.mode_13h - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
> the video was downscaled during playback, owing to the screen not being 4K.> Not sure if that made it easier.
Not usually. I only have detailed knowledge of H.264, where hierarchical encoding is mostly aimed at adapting to different bitrates. That would never be enabled by default, because not only is it more work for the encoder, but it's also poorly supported by decoders and generates slightly less efficient bitstreams.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
"hierarchical encoding"That could be x264's b-pyramid, which, I think, is enabled most of the time. Apparently, allows B-frames to be used as references, saving bits. The stricter setting limits it to the Bluray spec.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
By the way, looking forward to x266 coming out. AV1 is excellent, but VVC appears to be slightly ahead of it.mode_13h - Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - link
> That could be x264's b-pyramidNo, I meant specifically Scalable Video Coding, which is what I thought, but I didn't want to cite the wrong term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Video_Codin...
The only way the decoder can opt to do less work is by discarding some layers of a SVC-encoded H.264 stream. Under any other circumstance, the decoder can't take any shortcuts without introducing a cascade of errors in all of the frames which reference the one being decoded.
> The stricter setting limits it to the Bluray spec.
I think blu-ray mainly limits which profiles (which are a collection of compression techniques) and levels (i.e. bitrates & resolutions) can be used, so that the bitstream can be decoded by all players and can be streamed off the disc fast enough.
I once tried authoring valid blu-ray video dics, but the consumer-grade tools were too limiting and the free tools were a mess to figure out and use. In the end, I found simply copying MPEG-2.ts files on a BD-R would play it every player I tested. I was mainly interested in using it for a few videos shot on a phone, plus a few things I recorded from broadcast TV.
GeoffreyA - Friday, August 13, 2021 - link
SVC sounds pretty interesting, and the idea of layered encoding is becoming more common in today's codecs. I'd expect that H.265/6 and AV1 took it further. At least in their standards. Implementation is another story. Also reminds me of HE-AAC's extensions, the spectral band stuff and parametric stereo, which are just ignored by older decoders.GeoffreyA - Friday, August 13, 2021 - link
Even for files played on a TV, you've got to follow the profiles and levels, otherwise it just doesn't work. Our Samsung TV, I think I'm limited to H.264 profile high, level 4.1. Lamentably, it doesn't support H.265, which means re-encoding.GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Goodness, this is the one I've been waiting for! Thanks, Ian.GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Solid CPU performance as expected, but a bit disappointing in the GPU department, and pricing could be better. The 5300G looks like an impressive little fellow as well, perhaps even the star of today's show.yankeeDDL - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Every time I see the peak-power charts it amazes me how can anyone considers Intel these days.28W burning 51W
125W burning 277W; and slower than the 5800X @ 140W.
Spunjji - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
It's always worth noting that the peak power on Intel chips is pretty pathological, and they tend to not go quite so high under ordinary loads. They're still lousy compared to AMD on perf/W, but they're a little better than 50% of AMD.Makste - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Efficient tools. A 65W 5700G is an 11700K at 125Wabufrejoval - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
The price of novelty, I guess: first day of official sales, 5700G ride €70 above 5800X, nicely filling the gap to the 5900X :-)chazzzer - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
The 5700G is available today at MSRP on AMD's website.Spunjji - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Is it possible that a follow-up could be done assessing the performance impact of RAM speeds? I'd really love to know whether it's possible to get more out of the 5300G and the 5700G in particular - potentially enough to get 60fps at 1080p with some moderate sacrifices to detail settings.GeoffreyA - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Yes, great follow-up article, that.nemi2 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Does anyone know if these 5x00G support 4k HDR, VVR, at 120Hz? I see some B550 MB advertise HDMI 2.1id4andrei - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
An overclocking section would be nice, with a focus on the iGPU only.Gasaraki88 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
I'm worried about the performance of the Steam Deck.nandnandnand - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
https://videocardz.com/newz/steam-decks-rdna2-gpu-...Fulljack - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
Steam Deck uses the much faster LPDDR5-5500 RAM and much powerful RDNA2 iGPU.mode_13h - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
Yeah, but its iGPU is still 8 CUs. I think it's telling they went with 1280x800 resolution. Probably enough for a screen that size, and framerates are reportedly good.I do kinda wish they'd gone with a bigger iGPU, but maybe silicon prices these days pushed too hard against that. I think their goal should be to counter a plausible next-gen Nintendo Switch, and I'm not confident they got there.
Unlike Sony & MS, Valve can't afford to sell the hardware at a loss. The upside of that is that Valve isn't making it a walled garden. So, you should be able to load and run non-Steam software on it!
GreenReaper - Monday, August 16, 2021 - link
Compared to everything else in that form factor, it should be great. You probably won't be able to run most modern games at High and hit a solid 60FPS, or perhaps even 30FPS. But Medium might work. Meanwhile the competition is on Low with a few extra tweaks, and running games specifically designed for it (and likely costing a lot more). Heck, you might even be able to emulate them.The_Assimilator - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Way too expensive, especially when you consider these chips lose out on PCIe 4.0 and are still using the ancient and terrible Vega.pman6 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
i've used a prebuilt 5700G system, and for some reason, the Intel rocket lake runs smoother in certain applications like stock trading and java based apps.The only downside is that Intel is a power hog
Dribble - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Might be because it isn't as power limited and hence won't throttle in the same way the AMD chip.Danvelopment - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Is the 5600G 6 core or 8 core? The first page of the article says it's both on the two tables.eastcoast_pete - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Now, imagine if those 5700 APUs would have kept the core numbers of the 3400, but clocked at current speeds. I hope that Intel will bring its 10 nm Desktop CPUs with the full Xe compliment of mobile Tiger Lake, as that might force AMD to up its game; well, the next APU generation will be RDNA2, so as long as AMD doesn't gimp it by keeping the GPU tiny, it should have significant uplift over CézanneCooe - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Far Cry 5 running at ≈25fps on average at "1080p Ultra" is actually CRAZY freaking impressive. Why? Because that means it should hit a solid >=30fps running at "1080p High", which basically means that this single chip APU solution is outperforming BOTH of the last generation console base models (aka PS4 & Xbox One/S) in this title!!! That's freaking NUTS!!!nandnandnand - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
I wouldn't be surprised to see 1080p60 in the same scenarios with Rembrandt next year. But DDR5 will be expensive.nanonan - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Every other source I've read states the pcie configuration as 24 lanes divided into 16, 4 and 4 just like the 4000G series. Do you have a source for this 8+4+8 configuration?linuxgeex - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
Anand wasn't perfect with proofing either but he was thorough on deep dives, exposing bottlenecks and explaining how and why it was relevant. These days Ian and co assume that if we're Anandtech readers we just trust their methodology and do some lip service by adding cut&paste boilerplate around specs and throw in an image sometimes from a past review, sometimes not directly relevant, and I get that they only have so much time to invest. It bores me, and it doesn't give the new people the same level of engagement that will built their future audience. Oh welles.Samus - Friday, August 6, 2021 - link
I blacked out after getting to the part where an entry-level AMD APU starts at $259.While I get yes there are the Athlon's, they are mostly outclassed by a 9th gen $90 Intel Core i3 so it isn't even worth consideration.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
Yes, pricing is disappointing.mode_13h - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
They're starting strong, because it's a lot easier to lower prices than raise them, and that pricing reflects the supply/demand situation, especially when the 3000-gen are still widely available.Over time, I'm sure you can expect to see the gap close, particularly since the process node is the same and die sizes are similar.
mode_13h - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
I mean the gap between 3000G and 5000G APUs. Alder lake will probably also add some downward pricing pressure.mode_13h - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
In the meantime, I noticed Ryzen 5 3300X is back in stock, and available for $150!GeoffreyA - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
My humble 2200G is running well, but eventually, when I've got money to spare, I'd like to get something like a 5600G. Encoding performance is close to tripled, which is attractive. Heck, even the 5300G looks quite nice.Samus - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
That's true. The Ryzen APU's have been so ridiculously fast for generations that even a 2018-era CPU is entirely competitive today. It isn't like games are going to play that much different - we'll have to see how demanding Battlefield 2042 is.GeoffreyA - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
I think post Sandy Bridge, most CPUs have been holding up a lot longer than they used to.ballsystemlord - Saturday, August 7, 2021 - link
The "Ryzen 5 APUs (65W)" table is still mixed up. The 5600G isn't an 8 core APU. Neither is the 4650G. You should probably double check the other quoted specs.Spelling and grammar errors:
"The Ryzen 7 5700G has the quickest thread-to-thread latency, however does offer a single slowest core-to-core latency."
Incorrect grammar:
"The Ryzen 7 5700G has the smallest thread-to-thread latency. However, it also offers the single slowest core-to-core latency."
"Interestingly this processor uses more power when six cores are loaded."
Missing comma:
"Interestingly, this processor uses more power when six cores are loaded."
"Photoscan shows good gen-on-gen performance uplifts, with the 5700G on par with the 11700K despite being lower powered."
Incorrect grammar:
"Photoscan shows good gen-on-gen performance uplifts, with the 5700G on par with the 11700K despite using less power."
"GIMP is a funny test where it gets harder the more cores you have - that's why the quad cores win here. However slow quad cores (like the 2400G still let you down."
Missing paranthesis:
"GIMP is a funny test where it gets harder the more cores you have - that's why the quad cores win here. However slow quad cores (like the 2400G,) still let you down."
"We're still running the tests for the Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 3 5300G, but the Ryzen 7 5700G scores strong."
"Strongly" is how you score:
"We're still running the tests for the Ryzen 5 5600G and Ryzen 3 5300G, but the Ryzen 7 5700G scores strongly."
"Historically a processor with integrated graphics fit the bill."
Missing comma:
"Historically, a processor with integrated graphics fit the bill."
"... then someone like my father can browse the web and do office stuff on his 32-inch display and join the weekly family zoom call without having to sit there for the system to respond."
Sitting is what we normally do unless we have a standing desk:
"... then someone like my father can browse the web and do office stuff on his 32-inch display and join the weekly family zoom call without having to wait around for the system to respond."
"The problem with these though is that the 5300G isn't coming to market, at something like $159."
Missing comma:
"The problem with these though, is that the 5300G isn't coming to market, at something like $159."
"However it is not always the silicon that matters."
Missing comma:
"However, it is not always the silicon that matters."
"In the same way that every year we get more performance, every year the required specifications for modern games go up."
"goes" not "go".
"In the same way that every year we get more performance, every year the required specifications for modern games goes up."
"Not only that but new technologies such as AMD?s Fidelity SuperFX Resolution are aimed at getting a better experience with less compute power."
Missing comma:
"Not only that, but new technologies such as AMD?s Fidelity SuperFX Resolution are aimed at getting a better experience with less compute power."
"Moving up to Zen 3 with a larger L3 cache has really unlocked more of the performance in these cores and in the graphics."
You should qualify the type of graphics considiring the closeness of the "in":
"Moving up to Zen 3 with a larger L3 cache has really unlocked more of the performance in these cores and in the integrated graphics."
"The question on that then becomes how much extra will it cost,..."
Missing comma:
"The question on that then becomes, how much extra will it cost,..."
umwmedia - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
AMD Ryzen 5000 CPU vs APU Comparisons?WaltC - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
Lots of pent-up demand for these APUs. I was impressed that AMD actually got them out in quantity on the release date! In fact, judging by seeing the US AMD store fully stocked with CPUs, including these, for several days running, now, I think it might be safe to say that the CPU shortage--at least for AMD CPUs--is finally coming to an end. AMD store is selling them all for MSRP--so there's no room for scalpers! Perhaps this means the GPU shortages are not long for this world--we can hope.mode_13h - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
I noticed even the R9 5950X is in stock (Newegg even has it on sale for $805), but we don't know for how long. I'm guessing AMD gets wafers in batches, which leaves open the possibility of another dry spell before long.HankInTexas - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
According to the AMD published specs, this APU only supports PCIe gen3. So, that hot, expensive Gen 4 M.2 NVMe SSD you want to use on your new motherboard will not achieve the speed you paid dearly for.mode_13h - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
> that hot, expensive Gen 4 M.2 NVMe SSD you want to use on your new> motherboard will not achieve the speed you paid dearly for.
None of the 1st gen PCIe 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSDs did, in fact. A lot of them still don't. And if you're not running it at PCIe 4.0, then it's probably also running a bit cooler.
alfatekpt - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
Currently 5600G and 5600X are at the same price in my country. Should I get the 5600G? I already have a GPU so having an integrated one is only useful in case the GPU breaks or needs to go under warranty and I still can use the PC...mode_13h - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
I wouldn't get the G. The X is faster in every single benchmark, and sometimes substantially! Plus, you get PCIe 4.0, in case that's ever of interest.If you just want a backup GPU, so you're not completely dead in the water, then maybe pick up a used low-end model (especially when GPU prices cool off, a bit). I'm seeing used RX 550's for < $100, which is roughly performance-equivalent.
If you don't care about performance, then you can go even older. I have a HD 5450 as a sort of last-resort fallback, and those are CHEAP! That's pre-GCN, but I know it still works on Linux. I think it shouldn't be too hard to find something a bit newer that's also cheap, though. Or, if you have some friends who would loan you an obsolete GPU in a pinch, that's also an option worth considering.
phoenix_rizzen - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
The "Ryzen 5 APUs (65W)" table on page 1 lists the Ryzen 5 CPUs with 8 cores / 16 threads. Should be 6/12 instead.plonk420 - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
thanks for the core to core latency tests! looks like RPCS3 will definitely benefit from it \o/Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - link
‘In our largest sub-test, the Intel processors crack on ahead,’Did I miss the stuff about performance-per-watt?
If an Intel chip needs a boatload more power to do the barely faster work, how is that a victory for Intel’s chip?
Performance-per-watt is important when we’re dealing with today’s 14nm vs. ‘7nm’ situation.
There should be an entire page devoted to performance-per-watt.
mode_13h - Thursday, August 12, 2021 - link
There is indeed a page on power consumption, but the most revealing charts only compared the three AMD 5000G-series processors to each other. That was a painful omission.Intel got included in the peak power chart, but we all know that peak power is hardly the whole story.
Oxford Guy - Thursday, August 12, 2021 - link
‘There is indeed a page on power consumption’Indeed, there is no page on performance-per-watt — and the article continues this site’s erroneous tradition of claiming that getting a slightly higher score in a benchmark whilst using a ton more power constitutes a victory.
Context is key. These articles should pay more mind to practical context, rather than things like pumping 1.45 volts into Rocket Lake and ignoring power consumption failure (vis-a-vis the competition) when examining a benchmark.
mode_13h - Friday, August 13, 2021 - link
FWIW, I was trying to agree with you. Their "Power Consumption" page had several key omissions.Oxford Guy - Sunday, August 15, 2021 - link
Regardless... peak power isn’t enough to constitute a page on performance per watt.abdullh.atas - Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - link
This news intrigued me. real technology industry sector news. ücretsiz apk indirmode_13h - Friday, August 20, 2021 - link
spammer?rdgoodri - Friday, September 3, 2021 - link
Can't see 32gb (only 16gb) on Aorus X570 Gigabyte Wifi Pro motherboard with 5700G on F34. Anyone have a workaround?