The right reaction would have been to recall all products impacted by this design fault but nobody does that nowadays and regulators are far too soft to do their most basic duty. A practical solution would have been for battery replacements to be free in perpetuity for the devices impacted by this but Apple is far too greedy to do that and they are not ever going to pay for their own mistakes. As it is, folks are forced to pay extra because some Apple engineers messed up and that's not cool at all.
I'm no apple fanboy, not by a long shot but this is not a fault by the engineers but an intentional design decision taken to ensure the phone keeps working. I don't like it but the fact is that batteries degrade over time and an official battery change for $29 is reasonable for an out of warranty phone imo.
I am still not convinced that certain aspects in new iOS updates aren't inte tionally bumped for more nefarious ends but this particular issue is one of those "damned if you do damned if you don't" type scenarios
I feel that this is more of poor battery QC forcing them to do this. I've known quite a bit of people complain about their battery life and auto shut down problems for no reason. Seeing how they selectively offered free battery replacements for certain batches i think the battery quality forced them to do this to hide the issue.
Nothing against Apple, most other companies have skeletons in their closets. Just that for the price you're paying for it becomes a lot worse.
I'm sorry but as an owner of previous devices who still turns them on and uses them from time to time both my SGSIII and Nokia Lumia 929 shut down at higher loads despite listing 40+% remaining battery.
My Lumia 920 is still working fine even after 5 years. No shut downs, slow downs or anything. I did upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy Note, so donated my Lumia to my granny who uses it as a daily driver just fine.
The batteries don't last forever, but if you get a good one they can last for years.
Note that almost all those come with bigger batteries - apple has high efficiency so makes do with a weaker battery. Looks like this might just be the price they have to pay for that...
The Nexus 6P does something similar. It will just shut down even though it has a decent amount of charge left. Google was just replacing batteries in affected units.
No, this is just a software fix for a hardware problem. Normally you would expect a phone with a battery that is degraded to 80% capacity to run as fast as ever but have only 80% of battery life. If it shuts down with the battery half full because the voltage drops and you have to throttle it to keep it running at all, this phone is defective.
I know of no other device that has to throttle its hardware with a degraded battery just to keep it from shutting down all the time. Both the throttling and the cheaper battery replacements are nothing but damage control here and I would be very surprised if this would be the end of that.
Degraded capacity and degraded supply voltage are two separate things that happen to batteries as they get older. Phones don't shut down because of degraded capacity, they shut down due to degraded supply voltage.
I know several people with very old Android phones that do not throttle and, presumably as a result, experience frequent unexpected restarts and generally unstable performance.
People are mad at Apple generally for the wrong reason, IMO. IMO, what they did was fine (lots of people on Reddit complaining that Android isn't doing this to their very old phones, resulting in unstable phones). But what they should've done is made it much more transparent: i.e., a prompt that tells the user that supply voltage is degraded and the phone will throttle to compensate.
Apple did not take the transparent route, presumably because 1) they wanted to save money by hiding a hardware problem from users, thereby avoiding warranty repairs, and 2) they don't want iPhone users to receive a hardware warning as the last thing they see on their phone before they buy a new one (and jump ship to a different manufacturer).
Note that apple in general seems to go out of its way to keep older devices usable. Android vendors typically stop caring after 1-2 years. So you wouldn't expect an android vendor to release an update for old phones that does this because they don't do updates at all...
Still I do agree it is the right thing to do. I also think apple clearly under-specced the battery in these devices.
I'm sorry but as an owner of previous devices who still turns them on and uses them from time to time both my SGSIII and Nokia Lumia 929 shut down at higher loads despite listing 40+% remaining battery.
Naturally a new battery fixed this on my SGSIII, but no such options are readily available for my Lumia 929.
How many other devices (especially flagships) do you know still have user replaceable batteries? Or did you need to piss on Apple and couldn't find a proper reason?
LG V20 and G5 both did. I would've purchased one of the two but the LG skin is a dealbreaker and I don't like tinkering with Android ROMs (not because of difficulty but because once I start I can't stop tinkering).
I disagree entirely, no other manufacturer feels the need to do this, and I have not had issues with other devices shutting off randomly as they age.
This assertion by apple that this would otherwise happen (leaving aside that it didn't happen with apple devices prior to the iOS version that introduced this "feature") allows only for the conclusion that either Apple is using underspec or faulty batteries, or it is doing something else differently from everyone else like using higher TDP cpus or something.
To say nothing of the fact that they buried this info as deeply as they could and obfuscated it. They should be forced to advertise the phone specs as the lowest performance it can expect over it's life, not it's peak out of box performance.
They also have been refusing applecare battery replacements as "not faulty" when the phone has already slowed down to 600mhz.
This all points to either lies from apple or a serious design flaw.
This may be the first time I've ever defended Apple in this way, but here are my thoughts:
Have you never had an older cellphone randomly reboot on you? This is usually battery related, and has been the main reason I replace a phone. I think a lack of transparency is definitely an issue here, but Apple has never been remotely transparent. Apple had a few choices when designing their phones: 1) Release them slower from the factory, with more room for battery degradation before reboots begin to occur, 2) Release them with performance tuned to the limit, and allow phones to begin experiencing instability/reboots as early as 3-6 months as the battery degrades, or 3) Release them with performance tuned to the limit, then gradually cut performance as the battery ages, to preserve stability.
#1 is always a safe bet, but would have made them look bad next to their competition. This is what an honest company looking to build a reputation of long-term trust would probably do, but they would probably have lost sales and marketshare due to having a lower performing product.
#2 is probably how most Android manufacturers operate. It's common for phones to start randomly rebooting after some months. I just had to RMA my 1 year old Pixel because it began to very occasionally reboot, especially with the drop in outside temperature.
"Have you never had an older cellphone randomly reboot on you?" No, never. Or maybe with a really, really dodgy battery that hardly holds any charge at all. Not with a battery that still has 80% of the original capacity or so.
I think this may be related to modern SoCs having a real huge span between low standby power and big power surges when going full throttle. But then you need margins here and Apple seems to have designed their phone with razor thin power margins that go negative as soon as the battery isn't as good as new anymore.
The Nexus 4 was particularly prone to this problem. Battery was 10 months old and random reboots. New battery no more problem. This isn't a new problem.
Samsung SIII and Lumia 929 both have exhibited this problem, among others.
"A battery that still has 80% of its original capacity or so." I mean, I prefer to keep phones at least 2 years, ideally 3. Congratulations on your more luxurious lifestyle.
You should stop defending crooks and you should stop running your mouth if you have no knowledge of battery tech.
At what level the battery degrades to to get performance throttled? If there's such a set level, how will the software know it without constantly monitoring your device? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of saving battery?
Yes, the iPhone 4 antenna problem comes to mind - You're holding the phone wrong.
My 6S was perfectly fine with almost zero battery degradation before I upgraded to iOS 11. I almost never heard of 6s users complaining about random shutdowns before the update.
You seem to play the analyst fairly frequently, but that comment makes zero sense. First of all, this isn’t a design flaw, and battery replacements for actual defects in materials and workmanship are already covered by warranty for 1-2 years for all devices, and free under AppleCare+ for 2 years if the charge remaining is under 80% of original.
I can buy a brand new Dodge Challeger Hellcat and burn through a set of tires in an afternoon. Is that a design flaw? Should Dodge provide every Hellcat owner with free tires for life?
Batteries are consumables, and $79 for replacement by an authorized service provider is far from extortionate. Yes the battery might only cost $8, but the labor isn’t free and there are other plenty of other costs as well. What’s the price of a head gasket vs. how much a dealership would charge you to replace one?
There are over a billion iOS devices currently in use, which means Apple is looking at several hundred million iPhones with over 500 cycles or batteries otherwise degraded to less than 80% of original capacity in the wild at this point. Most of these are out of warranty, and there is no safety issue, so why would Apple possibly initiate a recall of that magnitude?
Every CPU, GPU, and SoC in the past 10 years has used DVFS to extend battery life, prevent thermal runaway, and avoid current draw in excesss of what the system can provide by shifting voltage and frequency as necessary. Apple made a software change in iOS that changed the DVFS algorithm to accommodate older batteries. Basically it turned on low power mode automatically when the battery was dodgy. That has nothing to do with the actual hardware, and is covered under an entirely different warranty. They could have just rolled back that feature and gone back to forcing people with older batteries to either service them or replace their devices.
How many of the iPhones with battery issues are less than a year old? How many of those were fast-charged, used with dodgy chargers or accessories, or exposed to extreme temperatures? Why is Apple liable for any of that when no other smartphone OEM is? Just because they have a big enough cash pile to make them a full-time class-action target?
"They could have just rolled back that feature and gone back to forcing people with older batteries to either service them or replace their devices." - No, if the battery degrading to 80% or so leads to the phone shutting down unexpectedly this is a defect. This phone obviously was only designed to work with a new or almost new battery.
Batteries degrading over time with battery life getting shorter is normal, having to castrate performance to keep the phone working at all isn't.
I believe their design goal was 80% battery life after 500 cycles, which is 2 years of 68% average daily depletion. Are other OEMs targeting a markedly higher standard?
How much and how often does the system throttle performance when brand new? How about when the battery is at 80% of new? How about at 80% of new but discharged to 20%? So much of the argument here is based on speculation rather than actual data.
There is an element of truth that they try to use to mask their lie. The simple circuit model of a battery is a voltage sourcr in series with a current limiting resistor (referred to as internal resistance). The internal resistance goes up as a battery ages or gets cold and I’m sure many other physical effects. This lowers the peak current it can supply. However the lie is in saying that the phone’s ever pull close to a battery’s peak current, even when aged. If this was the case then every old smartphone would be shutting down or locking up randomly. Transient load spikes are filtered out by energy storage elements (capacitors) in the power supply.
It’s okay to run damage control on a mistake. It’s not okay to lie. I’m pissed about their response.
You are correct about the simple circuit model of a battery. And it's a close enough approximation when you're operating at a point far from the absolute maximum ratings of a battery, and with a new battery.
As the battery ages, its internal resistance grows, as you quite correct stated.
However, some patterns of use can significantly alter in what way the resistance changes. Whether those patterns be be time spent on charger near 100%, time spent empty, or time spent in high or low temperatures, rate of discharge, or combinations of all of the above, it's hard to tell. I've profiled the internal resistance of various batteries from various manfuacturers, subjected to various real life uses, and found that sometimes the internal resistance on a used battery will increase sharply towards empty, in some cases exponentially. Furthermore, the industry standard cycle tests are very "easy" for a battery, in that the internal resistance of a laboratory-aged battery stays relatively fixed regardless of the state of charge.
So that's one factor to consider, batteries subjected to real life cycles behaves differently than batteries subjected to the controlled method and circumstance of industry standard tests. The engineer counting on getting exactly the performance indicated in the datasheet will be disappointed.
Then the next factor, the internal resistance will also rise exponentially if the current draw approaches the absolute maximum capability of the battery. The maximum will go down as the battery ages, and the internal resistance goes up
Normally only things like high performance RC helicopters and such operate near the battery's maximum.. Now if a RC Heli can empty the battery in 10 minutes, how can the power draw of a phone, which is tiny in comparison to a Heli, cause issues? Simply, because the batteries are built differently. Phone batteries are optimized for energy density, sacrificing their ability to provide power.
I think it's the sum of 3 factors that has hit Apple's design, their batteries are heavily optimized for storing energy (sacrificing power), their SoC is (one of?) the highest performing in the industry (which means peak power use is the highest), and their battery capacities despite having energy optimized batteries is relatively low compared to other phones.
So, small battery optimized for providing a lot of energy at low power levels, coupled with a SoC that uses alot of power (admittedly briefly, but that doesn't matter). Being Apple, they pushed the boundaries, and this time they pushed it a bit too hard.
As a fellow RC Heli flyer I had the same hypothesis that this is what is happening. As Apple is getting away with the smallest mah rated batteries as they’re so power efficient, it’s now biting them in the rear as smaller capacity batteries have lower max amp output vs android phones which have much larger average batteries. Total capacity X C rating = max amp output. So as the capacity goes down the max current output goes down with it. If you’re trying the pull higher than this the voltage crash occurs. As android phones have more margin for battery degradation than what Apple has they don’t have this problem as common
Wait this comment is actually so incredibly wrong. Battery degradation is primarily about an inability to maintain the original voltage curve, which is vital to operation.
Then there comes the constant when a new model is released of course they "update" the software to slow the older models down to upsell the new ones.
from default they should have had a battery service life tester or for that matter use properly thick phones so could use a larger capacity battery..the built in tester needs to be accurate but not constantly paging the battery every ms either (conserve battery life, if the software is smart enough, they KNOW how much an app is consuming power wise is a simple 1+1=2 calculation based on X % of "life" remaining)
Also, all phone makers BY LAW should have to make batteries user changeable/replacable (easy to buy OEM or better battery as soon as that model hits the market) instead of having to bring to a "authorized repair person" or buy fancy tools/kits to replace the battery..the phone itself is proprietary, ok but the ability to replace batteries should not and never be ^.^
Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel and many others seem to be "smartly" engineering these things to fail as covertly as possible, instead of building them for the quality we are paying for.
> You seem to play the analyst fairly frequently, but that comment makes zero sense. First of all, this isn’t a design flaw.
If the issue at hand is simply transient load spikes caused by in-rush currents then it's *absolutely* a design flaw in the power delivery system of the SoC as it wasn't designed to be robust enough for the *inevitable* voltage drop that comes with ageing batteries.
DVFS is a thermal and energy efficiency and energy preserving mechanism, not a system for designed for mitigation of power delivery issues. In this case it's a patchwork solution for a hardware design issue.
> Yes the battery might only cost $8, but the labor isn’t free and there are other plenty of other costs as well.
It takes 15 minutes tops to change an iPhone battery, experienced people can it in probably 5 minutes. $29 is reasonable for labour costs. $79 is not.
> Why is Apple liable for any of that when no other smartphone OEM is?
Because no other smartphone OEM with sufficiently large user-base currently suffers from this. Snapdragon 810 devices suffered from this for likely the same reasons, and in my opinion they and Qualcomm should have been liable for class-action lawsuits, but I guess that never happened.
So in this hypothetical scenario, if they limit the maximum draw by 2Watt they increase battery capacity by a factor of 30.
I'm reminded of days gone by when phones had NiMH batteries, and once you had a really old battery, there was enough power for SMS and Standby, but when someone called and you answered the phone just died because the battery couldn't sustain the power demand of the radio transmitting continuously.
Back to the apple situation, I think the more interesting side of it is, how do they determine what the present maximum is? Their battery fuel gauge chip can potentially track internal resistance, or maybe they just record unexpected shutdowns, and bump power limit down one notch after each unexpected shutdown?
In the future, will we have SoCs that can shift powerstates quickly enough to counteract falling voltage in real time instead of Apple's present method of setting static performance limits?
That's atleast what the engineer in me finds fascinating, the technical details of it.
If I put my user hat on, I'd just ask "Why can't they just add an inch of thickness to the phone so they can fit a properly big battery in there and we wont have these issues and these discussions?". :-)
Those figures are not plausible at all. Generally batteries shouldn't be continuously discharged at more than 1C, which means 1.8A or about 7W which anyway is well above a phone's thermal envelope anyway. However if the power delivery system isn't up to par and relies on a current rush to come from the battery then that can lead to failure.
> In the future, will we have SoCs that can shift powerstates quickly enough to counteract falling voltage in real time instead of Apple's present method of setting static performance limits?
That only exasperates the issue as instantaneous current rush will be even higher, again, the solution to this is either just have a bigger battery or have a proper decoupling circuit which can handle the current spikes.
You forget that it's less the continuous current but more the peak current, SoCs nowadays can boost up several times its base currency and consume exponentially more power for short intervals, so there may be milliseconds in which the phone is drawing over 1C from the battery (for example when both the CPUs and the GPU are on full with the RF transmitting).
But for every battery, there is a point at which voltage will collapse. Whether that be 1C, 2C, or 30C. Generally, for a battery rated for 1C discharge, if you do 2C or 4C it might still "work", when the battery is new, that is. There will be a point where voltage collapses. That point will become lower and lower as the battery ages.
In general, cellphone batteries and similar, are optimized for storing the maximum amount of energy, which means that the amount of discharge they can tolerate will be lower. The 1C you mention is typical for a cellphone battery. 30C is typical for a RC Drone battery.
Did Apple ask for a battery that is so heavily optimized for storing energy, that its maximum continuous discharge rate is somewhere below 1C? Or is the power draw of the SoC significantly higher than 1C in the first place?
This "feature" was introduced on the background of a small recall of iphones 6s. It's not something thought of from the beginning of the iphone. Therefor I doubt Apple was trying to think too much about the overall battery design and instead was trying to sweep this under the rug.
I'm sorry but this is no where near as constrained of a problem as you think. The only reason Apple is being targeted is because they're the largest user base of any individual phone models bar possibly Samsung, and because on average Apple phone users are satisfied with their individual phone models for far longer than their peers on Android, barring this issue.
Android users literally don't run into this issue because they buy new phones before it can possibly crop up.
This problem is demonstrable with a degraded battery on a Galaxy SIII and on a Lumia 929. In particular, the Lumia 929 is the same age approximately as the iPhone 6. The iPhone 6 operates noticeably slower. The Lumia 929 powers off at 40%-50% "remaining charge" frequently, depending on the operation.
> It takes 15 minutes tops to change an iPhone battery, experienced people can it in probably 5 minutes. $29 is reasonable for labour costs. $79 is not.
So I take it you’ve never actually been to an Apple Store? Nothing happens in under 15 minutes (Except for the draining of your wallet part. That usually happens incredibly quickly.) or involves fewer than 3 employees. They also tend to lease an insane amount of square footage in some of the most expensive real estate on the planet.
I think $79 was at the upper end of reasonable, but $29 is probably not a break even for them, unless someone else is underwriting some of the cost. The company I work for bills out technician labor at nominal rates up to $200 / hr. So even a 15 min repair would cost the customer $50 in labor. Fortune 500 companies tend to have a *lot* of overhead.
As to this being a design flaw, what you’re saying is that in the past 3 years Apple has realeased 7 iPhone models, with 3 different SoCs, various PMICs, countless batches of batteries sourced from multiple suppliers and produced at different facilities, all with a similar hardware problem. Furthermore, Apple has known about and has actively been working on a solution to this problem for at least 15 months. Yet they continue to produce and sell at least 5 of those 7 models with no apparent hardware revisions. Do you really think the engineers discovered a hardware design flaw, but still pushed out some 350 million devices and thought, “Nah, it’s OK, we can fix this down the road in software.”? If a few capacitors could solve this issue, why wouldn’t they have added them years ago? That narrative doesn’t make any sense.
Sure, let’s just recall all modern battery powered devices then. Android has had a similar kernel scheduler implementation since Donut, and Windows power management has had strategic component power optimization while on battery power since Windows 2000...although most of it can be overridden because the BIOS often allows CPU and chipset features, like turbo boost, to be forced while on DC power. By default, Intel mobile CPU’s do NOT boost on DC.
But I don’t see HP and Lenovo being sued. They aren’t recalling anything.
The only time this would warrant a recall is if it was a safety issue. It isn’t. It’s an aging equipment issue. Batteries don’t last forever.
That maybe true. CPUs on laptops are throttled because of thermal limit. They are not throttled because the battery is at 80% of its life. My 8-year old laptop battery has zero charge left but my CPU isn't throttled when it's plugged in. Apple intentionally throttled the phone EVEN when the phone is charging.
It's not a design fault. It's a reality of devices with Lithium-Ion batteries. The non-user-replacability makes it less convenient to resolve (by replacing the battery,) but it has always been possible to do outside Apple's official $79 method for much cheaper than Apple.
That is design fault. If I have Apple Care then battery installed in phone should be big enough to avoid shutdowns and/or slow downs in the 2 years period. The batteries are too small. The slowdown fix i just scam so customers don't get free battery replacements while under warranty or Apple Care. Many custumers who "detected" slowdowns were offered upgrades instead of free battery replacement by uninformed Apple staff. Many were just rejected battery replacement because battery was supposedly still healthy. That is scam continuation on Apple side. I paid $100 for AC, was lied about my battery state and reasons for slowdown, and now should buy battery out of pocket?
Of course it's a design fault. The question was it intentional or accidental. Apple and all manufacturers know how lithium-ion batteries behave as a function of time, charging/discharging rate, cycles, and temperature. These factors are *known* at the beginning of design. They know exactly the processor demands are. They know exactly how the battery degrades. This is engineering 101. You stack up all the ways that the battery can degrade and you size the battery properly for its demand.
The real problem here seems to be that at least some iPhones do only work as intended with a new or almost new battery. This is either a design problem with the phone or a problem with the batteries. A recall indeed would be in order here.
Having to throttle phones with a somewhat degraded battery because they shut down due to voltage drops otherwise is just a software workaround for a hardware problem.
Normally you would expect just shorter battery life with a degraded battery and offering a throttle mode to keep up battery life then would be a somewhat nice idea, but if you HAVE to throttle the phone then to stop it from shutting down unexpectedly this is a totally different thing.
How many devices less than 1 year old (i.e. within Apple’s standard limited warranty period) have had their performance reduced by the new iOS DVFS algorithms specifically designed to avoid excessive current being drawn from the battery?
What was the degree of actual, real-world performance reduction and typical duration of the slow-down for these devices?
I think there is considerable misrepresentation of the situation here. Apple does have an extended repair program for a small range of iPhone 6s’s that had a very specific, yet unrelated, battery issue that also resulted in unexpected shutdowns. I don’t see any evidence that this otherwise affects devices with new or “like-new” batteries in any way.
@uhuznaa Sorry, I didn’t read your comment properly. I see what you’re saying. It’s not that this is affecting devices with like-new batteries, but that they shouldn’t fall off a cliff as quickly as they appear to.
I had my battery in my 6S plus replace a year ago. More than 50 GB of NAND is free. Why is the phone slow? While I’m at it why did ios 11 introduce a ton of bugs that were only recently fixed? Why does my phone shut itself off when plugged into a wall charger (but only sometimes)?
Batteries degrade over time; that is an inescapable fact, and the primary way they manifest that degradation is by a slow rise in internal impedance. Heavy loads then cause the battery's output voltage to sag, possibly resulting in unstable operation. That's physics - not collusion. The battery is the weak link in any phone; the Samsung pants-on-fire debacle is a good example, and I, for one, laud Apple in thinking ahead to this scenario when the phone was designed - allowing iPhone users to keep using their old phones as long as possible.
No, this throttling was added with a iOS update after the fact. Apple designed these phones to work as intended with new batteries only and had to add software to throttle it when the battery degrades to keep the phone from shutting down then. This is not "thinking ahead", it is running after.
I mean, I can't complain: My three years old iPhone 6 still has 97% battery capacity and has neither shorter battery life nor has it become slower. But if a degraded battery means they have to throttle the phone to keep it running at all this is a design problem. This is not normal and it seems they realized this problem only after selling millions and millions of the things.
You *applaud* Apple for intentionally shipping defective, under-engineered products ("thinking ahead"), and allowing (lol, "allowing") iPhone users to "keep" using their degraded phones (which wasn't what they paid for) and CHARGING THEM to fix that defect?
My God, this comment section is rich. I mean, Apple fans should get a noble prize for blind following and foot licking. I mean, I really thought I can handle that shill-train because it just couldn't get any worse, but alas, you guys never fail to amaze.
You also managed to snark at Samsung's UNINTENTIONAL battery issues? The problems which they FULLY took responsibility for, compensated the owners, offered discounts on future products, and took a MAJOR hit on their income statement and vowed never to happen again?
We're far and beyond strawman territory. I tip my hat to you. Bravo.
My iPhone 6 battery seems to be really degraded, judging by what unoffical apps like battery life tell me. And one really notices it. The phone feels slow as hell, opening apps etc take for ever. I only ever charged with the offical power supply or USB, so I guess it mist be age. Will habe it repöaced now - I dont mind that batteries degrade, but not telling me how bad it was and just slowing everything down I find really quite bad.
Beside repairing PCs, I did iPhones and iPads as well (battery, display replacements, etc.). A new battery only costs about $5 and replacing it only takes 5 minutes. $79 + tax is a rip-off. $29 is still too much but the bigger problem is the iOS 11.2. Any iPhone and iPad updated to that version or later would suffer in performance not only from the software throttles the Soc but also from the battery monitoring of that software itself.
Apple's recent statements are pure bullshits. If the battery degrades, it can only hold less charge. Say an old battery can only hold 50% charge compared to a new one when full, isn't it the same as a new battery with 50% charged?
I accidentally updated my iPhone 6s just couple weeks ago. Now I can only hope those lawsuits come thru to force Apple allows firmware downgrade. Or I WILL NEVER buy another Apple product again.
No, it isn’t the same. Internal resistance increases and open cell voltage decreases. It shifts the whole curve (see Andrei’s previous post).
Also, what makes you think iOS 11.2 targets iPads with reduced battery life?
So how much did the shop you worked for charge the customer for a battery replacement? How much did they pay you? Did you both profit reasonably from that type of repair?
Blah blah the Apple rat. Sure the voltage will decrease but that's the same with new battery when amp decreases. A dead new battery has no voltage. You should go back to school.
I own my own shop and I make enough to buy me anything I want.
A dead new battery without voltage is dead and shouldn't be used again, unless you want explosions in your future.
The issue Apple has encountered is something like this example:
New full battery under no load: 4.20V. New full battery under 2Amp load: 4.17V New full battery under 4Amp load: 4.15V
Old full battery under no load: 4.20V Old full battery under 2Amp load: 3.9V Old full battery under 4Amp load: 1.5V (too low, phone shuts down).
So their solution was to limit power draw to 2Amp (hypothetical).
The proper solution would've been to either make the iphone thicker so they could fit in a battery twice as big, or, counterintuitively, use a battery with lower capacity that is optimized for providing more power.
My iPhone 6s had zero problems on iOS 9. Battery life was same as when I first got it. Zero slowdown. Then I updated and suddenly I’m being throttled? I had no shutdowns! I never had any instability! And to top it off iOS 11 is a buggy stutterfest that drains battery life.
Safer to use only the 40-80% charge range on any new phone to keep the battery healthy for longer. Higher states of charge mean higher voltage while draining too low causes the cell to go near the voltage limit. Both cases aren't optimal. I usually use my phone until it drops to 40% charge, then I recharge to only 80% while keeping the phone cool. It also helps I've got a huge 5000 mAh battery.
Of course, Apple could have used larger batteries so a degraded battery still can put out enough voltage but that's another story.
The only correct response? Nowhere in their response did they mention the ability to disable these software “features” that lower performance to extend battery life. It is indeed a lie to say that a partially aged battery cannot sustain a phone’s load. I have owned three androids and driven each of them into the ground. The only phone I’ve ever had that shuts down randomly is my iphone 6S plus and it only does it while plugged in. Apple needs to get their act together if they want to justify thousand dollar price tags.
> It is indeed a lie to say that a partially aged battery cannot sustain a phone’s load. I have owned three androids and driven each of them into the ground.
It doesn't have to be a lie, please read my initial post on iPhone vs Android devices;
Perhaps Anandtech has the resources and manpower to "guesstimate" *peak* power draws of various phone SoCs (plus their screens, radios, flash, storage, etc etc), and compare it with battery capacity, AND battery energy density (that is, how much capacity have they crammed in how much physical space?).
I believe such a table would show the iphone is operating with a heavier strain on its battery than any other smartphone.
I'll start with a datapoint from the other extreme end of the spectrum, the Oukitel K10000. Quad core Mediatek MT6735P @ 1.0Ghz paired with a 10,000mAh battery.
I agree. There is no desire from Apple to disable nor they going to stop from doing these. A slow phone doesn't easily show itself as a battery issue, only annoying the user. A restarting or shutting down phone guarantees a visit to the service center, replacing the battery
Why do so many people assume that "tech" is magically immune to normal wear and tear? Would you rather have device makers throttle the products for entire lifetime of the product just so that it works when the battery gets old? Or would you rather have the best performance for any stage of the products usable lifetime?
I just want to see what's going on: When the battery degrades I'll notice that by shorter battery life and then can either charge the phone more often or replace the battery. I do not want software updates that hide an aging battery by throttling my phone. Because then you will never know if it's just the new OS version that runs slower or the phone is deliberately throttled to hide the degrading battery.
And especially I don't want a company use software tricks like throttling to hide the fact that their phones can't work with degrading batteries without rebooting at load peaks because they used razor-thin margins in their power/voltage designs that only are just this side of good as long as the battery is brand new.
Point out where people are upset about working around the reality of the problems. You’re making a counter argument where no one has made an original argument.
Whatever. The official statement sounds fishy already as the initial words used usually comes from a liar.
A perfectly working phone but with slow performance doesn't show itself as an issue to the user but only a desire to upgrade. A restarting or shutting down is almost always a trip to the service center.
In the end, Apple has decided they still end up better with a discounted battery replacement job for some and a user upgrading from a perfectly usable phone than removing the throttling mechanism.
I have 128G iPhone 6 that I purchase when first release and had no reboot issues. Yes the battery life seems to go down faster - but I believe it because of changes in iOS. Newer versions of iOS seem to have much more notifications now and as a developer, I expect those to eat of battery life.
I been thinking of getting a newer iPhone, but the iPhone X is still more expensive and only in larger size which I don't care for. The size of iPhone 6 ( not 6 plus ) is perfect and going to wait for iPhone X style that is both cheaper and in that size.
I don't see how Apple should be apologizing for this - with the possible exception that they should have been upfront about the throttling feature.
Have you tried running Windows 10 on an older memory limited laptop? It's less responsive and tends to max the cpu frequently and decimates the battery run time. Why? Because Microsoft is adding features to take advantage of the CPU power they have available on newer hardware. Apple is doing the same thing and is partially compelled to do so because of competition from Android.
My two year old power drill, weed trimmer, laptop, tablet, etc are all showing signs of battery wear. Can't use 1" bits anymore, can't finish edging whole yard, etc, etc due to normal wear. Heck my 5 year old car battery just refused to start my car in the cold temps outside - am I going to sue the car maker? That's ridiculous.
Get a new battery installed in your phone if you've been a heavy user for 2+ years. Batteries are like tires - they wear out quicker the harder you use them.
The volume issue is so irritating. I (and others) spent time at the genius bar, cleaning our phones etc.... and it never was fixed. The CPU slowdown is a another problem. I would have never guessed that the volume issue was software based. So many people were complaining and got new phones. Ridiculous.
When the "geniuses" have no clue what is going on and why your phone is SUPER SLOW and SUPER SOFT, then this is a problem. I don't understand why people are defending this? Yeah, we all understand how batteries work and guess what? If a battery was causing shutdowns, then maybe we change the battery OK? Don't sneakily slow down the phone, make it soft, screw up software performance and not tell your front line support people. Don't defend this kind of action.
They are trying to do what they can at the time being, but this unlikely to make people happy. Let's hope they develop a dynamic approach to power management based on PMIC that makes things better, i.e. Give you the option to choose performance over stability.
This has to be the most trying to sound smart but having zero knowledge of what I’m talking about comment I’ve read all year! The internal temperature of your body is 37 degrees Celsius. The external is close to room temperature especially on your hand where there is no much blood flow to keep it in even internally to 37 degrees so no the watch should not work at 37 degrees unless you planning on surgically implanting it
will no one explain (or, if so, where??) how it is that the "problem" only manifests with this latest iOS?? IOW, what is in the new version that demands only a "new" iPhone?? IOW, yet again, why shouldn't the OS know which version of the hardware it is running, and if not the "latest" hardware just not run the "new" functions which cause "old" iPhones to croak??? not a hard problem, ya know.
Old iOS: Phone randomly dies/reboots. Cause: phone tried to draw more power from the battery than the battery is able to supply. New iOS: Phone no longer randomly dies/reboots, because the CPU is throttled so that maximum power draw from battery is limited.
Then on top of you that, you've got the normal things influencing performance: New operating systems have more features, programmers rely on more performance from the system, websites and apps keep relying on systems getting faster and faster.
The other day my gf asked me to help figure out why her PC was running so slow. It seemed to be constantly swapping. The web browser was consuming enormous amounts of memory. Turned out the facebook tab was using around 12 gigabytes of memory. Closing the tab and reopening facebook fixed it. She wasn't entirely happy about losing the state of that tab, but happy enough to get performance back.
I have never had an iPhone randomly reboot or shut down on me because of a degraded battery. My 6S certainly never did that. So why the heck am I suddenly being throttled in iOS 11?
No one ever asked for this “feature”, or complained about degraded batteries.
Why is this even necessary? I updated from iOS 9 to 11 and my phone just tanked. The battery life and performance were completely fine on iOS 9. I had zero issues. I didn’t experience anything related to “battery degradation” like decreased battery life or random shutdowns. Then I installed iOS 11 and now I’m getting nearly 50% performance on geekbench and my phone is stuttering like crazy. And my battery life is significantly *worse* than it was on iOS 9.
How is any of that justifiable? Why is Apple’s throttling so ridiculously aggressive?
Well... at least we now have some idea why android phones have been around 3000 mah for the last 3 years or so.
I laughed out loud when I saw the list of things affected by Apple's "solution".
if you dont work for/ or profit from apple in some way you are an utter sheep to defend them on this. Customers should not fall in love with Companies.
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The company said that some iPhones were having problems when their battery had depleted. Apple is offering cheaper upgrades on your battery, and if your phone is currently having its performance restricted, that will help. but There are some important caveats to this offer.
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jjj - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The right reaction would have been to recall all products impacted by this design fault but nobody does that nowadays and regulators are far too soft to do their most basic duty.A practical solution would have been for battery replacements to be free in perpetuity for the devices impacted by this but Apple is far too greedy to do that and they are not ever going to pay for their own mistakes. As it is, folks are forced to pay extra because some Apple engineers messed up and that's not cool at all.
jimbo2779 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I'm no apple fanboy, not by a long shot but this is not a fault by the engineers but an intentional design decision taken to ensure the phone keeps working. I don't like it but the fact is that batteries degrade over time and an official battery change for $29 is reasonable for an out of warranty phone imo.I am still not convinced that certain aspects in new iOS updates aren't inte tionally bumped for more nefarious ends but this particular issue is one of those "damned if you do damned if you don't" type scenarios
Kaggy - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I feel that this is more of poor battery QC forcing them to do this.I've known quite a bit of people complain about their battery life and auto shut down problems for no reason.
Seeing how they selectively offered free battery replacements for certain batches i think the battery quality forced them to do this to hide the issue.
Nothing against Apple, most other companies have skeletons in their closets. Just that for the price you're paying for it becomes a lot worse.
lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I'm sorry but as an owner of previous devices who still turns them on and uses them from time to time both my SGSIII and Nokia Lumia 929 shut down at higher loads despite listing 40+% remaining battery.StevoLincolnite - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
My Lumia 920 is still working fine even after 5 years. No shut downs, slow downs or anything.I did upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy Note, so donated my Lumia to my granny who uses it as a daily driver just fine.
The batteries don't last forever, but if you get a good one they can last for years.
jospoortvliet - Thursday, January 4, 2018 - link
Note that almost all those come with bigger batteries - apple has high efficiency so makes do with a weaker battery. Looks like this might just be the price they have to pay for that...Mr Perfect - Tuesday, January 2, 2018 - link
The Nexus 6P does something similar. It will just shut down even though it has a decent amount of charge left. Google was just replacing batteries in affected units.lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Did not intend to reply to this comment, sorry! Anandtech comment system is not my friend today :-/uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
No, this is just a software fix for a hardware problem. Normally you would expect a phone with a battery that is degraded to 80% capacity to run as fast as ever but have only 80% of battery life. If it shuts down with the battery half full because the voltage drops and you have to throttle it to keep it running at all, this phone is defective.I know of no other device that has to throttle its hardware with a degraded battery just to keep it from shutting down all the time. Both the throttling and the cheaper battery replacements are nothing but damage control here and I would be very surprised if this would be the end of that.
ahw - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Degraded capacity and degraded supply voltage are two separate things that happen to batteries as they get older. Phones don't shut down because of degraded capacity, they shut down due to degraded supply voltage.I know several people with very old Android phones that do not throttle and, presumably as a result, experience frequent unexpected restarts and generally unstable performance.
People are mad at Apple generally for the wrong reason, IMO. IMO, what they did was fine (lots of people on Reddit complaining that Android isn't doing this to their very old phones, resulting in unstable phones). But what they should've done is made it much more transparent: i.e., a prompt that tells the user that supply voltage is degraded and the phone will throttle to compensate.
Apple did not take the transparent route, presumably because 1) they wanted to save money by hiding a hardware problem from users, thereby avoiding warranty repairs, and 2) they don't want iPhone users to receive a hardware warning as the last thing they see on their phone before they buy a new one (and jump ship to a different manufacturer).
jospoortvliet - Thursday, January 4, 2018 - link
Note that apple in general seems to go out of its way to keep older devices usable. Android vendors typically stop caring after 1-2 years. So you wouldn't expect an android vendor to release an update for old phones that does this because they don't do updates at all...Still I do agree it is the right thing to do. I also think apple clearly under-specced the battery in these devices.
chrnochime - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You need to go have a better understanding of how batteries work.lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I'm sorry but as an owner of previous devices who still turns them on and uses them from time to time both my SGSIII and Nokia Lumia 929 shut down at higher loads despite listing 40+% remaining battery.Naturally a new battery fixed this on my SGSIII, but no such options are readily available for my Lumia 929.
Great_Scott - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
It's too bad you can't easily replace the batteries on Apple products like you used to be able to on other devices.ddrіver - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
How many other devices (especially flagships) do you know still have user replaceable batteries? Or did you need to piss on Apple and couldn't find a proper reason?lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
LG V20 and G5 both did. I would've purchased one of the two but the LG skin is a dealbreaker and I don't like tinkering with Android ROMs (not because of difficulty but because once I start I can't stop tinkering).chrnochime - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
None of the popular Android phones available today has user swapable battery either.rtho782 - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
I disagree entirely, no other manufacturer feels the need to do this, and I have not had issues with other devices shutting off randomly as they age.This assertion by apple that this would otherwise happen (leaving aside that it didn't happen with apple devices prior to the iOS version that introduced this "feature") allows only for the conclusion that either Apple is using underspec or faulty batteries, or it is doing something else differently from everyone else like using higher TDP cpus or something.
To say nothing of the fact that they buried this info as deeply as they could and obfuscated it. They should be forced to advertise the phone specs as the lowest performance it can expect over it's life, not it's peak out of box performance.
They also have been refusing applecare battery replacements as "not faulty" when the phone has already slowed down to 600mhz.
This all points to either lies from apple or a serious design flaw.
fred666 - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
it's a fault by the engineers not to tell the userYuriman - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
This may be the first time I've ever defended Apple in this way, but here are my thoughts:Have you never had an older cellphone randomly reboot on you? This is usually battery related, and has been the main reason I replace a phone. I think a lack of transparency is definitely an issue here, but Apple has never been remotely transparent. Apple had a few choices when designing their phones: 1) Release them slower from the factory, with more room for battery degradation before reboots begin to occur, 2) Release them with performance tuned to the limit, and allow phones to begin experiencing instability/reboots as early as 3-6 months as the battery degrades, or 3) Release them with performance tuned to the limit, then gradually cut performance as the battery ages, to preserve stability.
#1 is always a safe bet, but would have made them look bad next to their competition. This is what an honest company looking to build a reputation of long-term trust would probably do, but they would probably have lost sales and marketshare due to having a lower performing product.
#2 is probably how most Android manufacturers operate. It's common for phones to start randomly rebooting after some months. I just had to RMA my 1 year old Pixel because it began to very occasionally reboot, especially with the drop in outside temperature.
uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
"Have you never had an older cellphone randomly reboot on you?" No, never. Or maybe with a really, really dodgy battery that hardly holds any charge at all. Not with a battery that still has 80% of the original capacity or so.I think this may be related to modern SoCs having a real huge span between low standby power and big power surges when going full throttle. But then you need margins here and Apple seems to have designed their phone with razor thin power margins that go negative as soon as the battery isn't as good as new anymore.
Alistair - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The Nexus 4 was particularly prone to this problem. Battery was 10 months old and random reboots. New battery no more problem. This isn't a new problem.lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Samsung SIII and Lumia 929 both have exhibited this problem, among others."A battery that still has 80% of its original capacity or so." I mean, I prefer to keep phones at least 2 years, ideally 3. Congratulations on your more luxurious lifestyle.
sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You should stop defending crooks and you should stop running your mouth if you have no knowledge of battery tech.At what level the battery degrades to to get performance throttled? If there's such a set level, how will the software know it without constantly monitoring your device? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of saving battery?
Yes, the iPhone 4 antenna problem comes to mind - You're holding the phone wrong.
chrnochime - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
And yet you don't provide any such threshold for the battery to trigger throttling either. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.sonicmerlin - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
My 6S was perfectly fine with almost zero battery degradation before I upgraded to iOS 11. I almost never heard of 6s users complaining about random shutdowns before the update.repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You seem to play the analyst fairly frequently, but that comment makes zero sense. First of all, this isn’t a design flaw, and battery replacements for actual defects in materials and workmanship are already covered by warranty for 1-2 years for all devices, and free under AppleCare+ for 2 years if the charge remaining is under 80% of original.I can buy a brand new Dodge Challeger Hellcat and burn through a set of tires in an afternoon. Is that a design flaw? Should Dodge provide every Hellcat owner with free tires for life?
Batteries are consumables, and $79 for replacement by an authorized service provider is far from extortionate. Yes the battery might only cost $8, but the labor isn’t free and there are other plenty of other costs as well. What’s the price of a head gasket vs. how much a dealership would charge you to replace one?
There are over a billion iOS devices currently in use, which means Apple is looking at several hundred million iPhones with over 500 cycles or batteries otherwise degraded to less than 80% of original capacity in the wild at this point. Most of these are out of warranty, and there is no safety issue, so why would Apple possibly initiate a recall of that magnitude?
Every CPU, GPU, and SoC in the past 10 years has used DVFS to extend battery life, prevent thermal runaway, and avoid current draw in excesss of what the system can provide by shifting voltage and frequency as necessary. Apple made a software change in iOS that changed the DVFS algorithm to accommodate older batteries. Basically it turned on low power mode automatically when the battery was dodgy. That has nothing to do with the actual hardware, and is covered under an entirely different warranty. They could have just rolled back that feature and gone back to forcing people with older batteries to either service them or replace their devices.
How many of the iPhones with battery issues are less than a year old? How many of those were fast-charged, used with dodgy chargers or accessories, or exposed to extreme temperatures? Why is Apple liable for any of that when no other smartphone OEM is? Just because they have a big enough cash pile to make them a full-time class-action target?
uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
"They could have just rolled back that feature and gone back to forcing people with older batteries to either service them or replace their devices." - No, if the battery degrading to 80% or so leads to the phone shutting down unexpectedly this is a defect. This phone obviously was only designed to work with a new or almost new battery.Batteries degrading over time with battery life getting shorter is normal, having to castrate performance to keep the phone working at all isn't.
repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I believe their design goal was 80% battery life after 500 cycles, which is 2 years of 68% average daily depletion. Are other OEMs targeting a markedly higher standard?How much and how often does the system throttle performance when brand new? How about when the battery is at 80% of new? How about at 80% of new but discharged to 20%? So much of the argument here is based on speculation rather than actual data.
sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
A new battery at 50% and a fully charged old one which can only hold 50% charge compared when new will provide the same performance.I smell an apple rat here.
willis936 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
There is an element of truth that they try to use to mask their lie. The simple circuit model of a battery is a voltage sourcr in series with a current limiting resistor (referred to as internal resistance). The internal resistance goes up as a battery ages or gets cold and I’m sure many other physical effects. This lowers the peak current it can supply. However the lie is in saying that the phone’s ever pull close to a battery’s peak current, even when aged. If this was the case then every old smartphone would be shutting down or locking up randomly. Transient load spikes are filtered out by energy storage elements (capacitors) in the power supply.It’s okay to run damage control on a mistake. It’s not okay to lie. I’m pissed about their response.
shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You are correct about the simple circuit model of a battery. And it's a close enough approximation when you're operating at a point far from the absolute maximum ratings of a battery, and with a new battery.As the battery ages, its internal resistance grows, as you quite correct stated.
However, some patterns of use can significantly alter in what way the resistance changes. Whether those patterns be be time spent on charger near 100%, time spent empty, or time spent in high or low temperatures, rate of discharge, or combinations of all of the above, it's hard to tell. I've profiled the internal resistance of various batteries from various manfuacturers, subjected to various real life uses, and found that sometimes the internal resistance on a used battery will increase sharply towards empty, in some cases exponentially. Furthermore, the industry standard cycle tests are very "easy" for a battery, in that the internal resistance of a laboratory-aged battery stays relatively fixed regardless of the state of charge.
So that's one factor to consider, batteries subjected to real life cycles behaves differently than batteries subjected to the controlled method and circumstance of industry standard tests. The engineer counting on getting exactly the performance indicated in the datasheet will be disappointed.
Then the next factor, the internal resistance will also rise exponentially if the current draw approaches the absolute maximum capability of the battery. The maximum will go down as the battery ages, and the internal resistance goes up
Normally only things like high performance RC helicopters and such operate near the battery's maximum.. Now if a RC Heli can empty the battery in 10 minutes, how can the power draw of a phone, which is tiny in comparison to a Heli, cause issues? Simply, because the batteries are built differently. Phone batteries are optimized for energy density, sacrificing their ability to provide power.
I think it's the sum of 3 factors that has hit Apple's design, their batteries are heavily optimized for storing energy (sacrificing power), their SoC is (one of?) the highest performing in the industry (which means peak power use is the highest), and their battery capacities despite having energy optimized batteries is relatively low compared to other phones.
So, small battery optimized for providing a lot of energy at low power levels, coupled with a SoC that uses alot of power (admittedly briefly, but that doesn't matter). Being Apple, they pushed the boundaries, and this time they pushed it a bit too hard.
Pneumothorax - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link
As a fellow RC Heli flyer I had the same hypothesis that this is what is happening. As Apple is getting away with the smallest mah rated batteries as they’re so power efficient, it’s now biting them in the rear as smaller capacity batteries have lower max amp output vs android phones which have much larger average batteries. Total capacity X C rating = max amp output. So as the capacity goes down the max current output goes down with it. If you’re trying the pull higher than this the voltage crash occurs.As android phones have more margin for battery degradation than what Apple has they don’t have this problem as common
lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Wait this comment is actually so incredibly wrong. Battery degradation is primarily about an inability to maintain the original voltage curve, which is vital to operation.willis936 - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
No it is not wrong. Voltage curve? Voltage vs. what? Do you know what you’re talking about or are you blowing smoke?Dragonstongue - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
well said.Then there comes the constant when a new model is released of course they "update" the software to slow the older models down to upsell the new ones.
from default they should have had a battery service life tester or for that matter use properly thick phones so could use a larger capacity battery..the built in tester needs to be accurate but not constantly paging the battery every ms either (conserve battery life, if the software is smart enough, they KNOW how much an app is consuming power wise is a simple 1+1=2 calculation based on X % of "life" remaining)
Also, all phone makers BY LAW should have to make batteries user changeable/replacable (easy to buy OEM or better battery as soon as that model hits the market) instead of having to bring to a "authorized repair person" or buy fancy tools/kits to replace the battery..the phone itself is proprietary, ok but the ability to replace batteries should not and never be ^.^
Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel and many others seem to be "smartly" engineering these things to fail as covertly as possible, instead of building them for the quality we are paying for.
sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I replace iPhone battery for $15 and it'll be done in 5 minutes. You should stop defending crooks.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
> You seem to play the analyst fairly frequently, but that comment makes zero sense. First of all, this isn’t a design flaw.If the issue at hand is simply transient load spikes caused by in-rush currents then it's *absolutely* a design flaw in the power delivery system of the SoC as it wasn't designed to be robust enough for the *inevitable* voltage drop that comes with ageing batteries.
DVFS is a thermal and energy efficiency and energy preserving mechanism, not a system for designed for mitigation of power delivery issues. In this case it's a patchwork solution for a hardware design issue.
> Yes the battery might only cost $8, but the labor isn’t free and there are other plenty of other costs as well.
It takes 15 minutes tops to change an iPhone battery, experienced people can it in probably 5 minutes. $29 is reasonable for labour costs. $79 is not.
> Why is Apple liable for any of that when no other smartphone OEM is?
Because no other smartphone OEM with sufficiently large user-base currently suffers from this. Snapdragon 810 devices suffered from this for likely the same reasons, and in my opinion they and Qualcomm should have been liable for class-action lawsuits, but I guess that never happened.
shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I think the maximum discharge current for the battery is dropping as it ages, and they're encountering the exponential part of it.That is, their batteries are performing like this (example, fictional, but perfectly plausible numbers):
0.1W Discharge: 5000mAh battery capacity
0.2W Discharge: 4950mAh battery capacity
0.5W Discharge: 4900mAh battery capacity
1Watt Discharge: 4800mAh battery capactiy
2Watt discharge: 4000mAh battery capacity
4Watt discharge: 2000mAh battery capacity
5Watt discharge: 100mAh battery capacity
5.5Watt discharge: 0mAh capacity
So in this hypothetical scenario, if they limit the maximum draw by 2Watt they increase battery capacity by a factor of 30.
I'm reminded of days gone by when phones had NiMH batteries, and once you had a really old battery, there was enough power for SMS and Standby, but when someone called and you answered the phone just died because the battery couldn't sustain the power demand of the radio transmitting continuously.
Back to the apple situation, I think the more interesting side of it is, how do they determine what the present maximum is? Their battery fuel gauge chip can potentially track internal resistance, or maybe they just record unexpected shutdowns, and bump power limit down one notch after each unexpected shutdown?
In the future, will we have SoCs that can shift powerstates quickly enough to counteract falling voltage in real time instead of Apple's present method of setting static performance limits?
That's atleast what the engineer in me finds fascinating, the technical details of it.
If I put my user hat on, I'd just ask "Why can't they just add an inch of thickness to the phone so they can fit a properly big battery in there and we wont have these issues and these discussions?". :-)
Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Those figures are not plausible at all. Generally batteries shouldn't be continuously discharged at more than 1C, which means 1.8A or about 7W which anyway is well above a phone's thermal envelope anyway. However if the power delivery system isn't up to par and relies on a current rush to come from the battery then that can lead to failure.> In the future, will we have SoCs that can shift powerstates quickly enough to counteract falling voltage in real time instead of Apple's present method of setting static performance limits?
That only exasperates the issue as instantaneous current rush will be even higher, again, the solution to this is either just have a bigger battery or have a proper decoupling circuit which can handle the current spikes.
kfishy - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You forget that it's less the continuous current but more the peak current, SoCs nowadays can boost up several times its base currency and consume exponentially more power for short intervals, so there may be milliseconds in which the phone is drawing over 1C from the battery (for example when both the CPUs and the GPU are on full with the RF transmitting).shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The numbers were fictional, as I said.But for every battery, there is a point at which voltage will collapse. Whether that be 1C, 2C, or 30C. Generally, for a battery rated for 1C discharge, if you do 2C or 4C it might still "work", when the battery is new, that is. There will be a point where voltage collapses. That point will become lower and lower as the battery ages.
In general, cellphone batteries and similar, are optimized for storing the maximum amount of energy, which means that the amount of discharge they can tolerate will be lower. The 1C you mention is typical for a cellphone battery. 30C is typical for a RC Drone battery.
Did Apple ask for a battery that is so heavily optimized for storing energy, that its maximum continuous discharge rate is somewhere below 1C? Or is the power draw of the SoC significantly higher than 1C in the first place?
id4andrei - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
This "feature" was introduced on the background of a small recall of iphones 6s. It's not something thought of from the beginning of the iphone. Therefor I doubt Apple was trying to think too much about the overall battery design and instead was trying to sweep this under the rug.lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I'm sorry but this is no where near as constrained of a problem as you think. The only reason Apple is being targeted is because they're the largest user base of any individual phone models bar possibly Samsung, and because on average Apple phone users are satisfied with their individual phone models for far longer than their peers on Android, barring this issue.Android users literally don't run into this issue because they buy new phones before it can possibly crop up.
This problem is demonstrable with a degraded battery on a Galaxy SIII and on a Lumia 929. In particular, the Lumia 929 is the same age approximately as the iPhone 6. The iPhone 6 operates noticeably slower. The Lumia 929 powers off at 40%-50% "remaining charge" frequently, depending on the operation.
repoman27 - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
> It takes 15 minutes tops to change an iPhone battery, experienced people can it in probably 5 minutes. $29 is reasonable for labour costs. $79 is not.So I take it you’ve never actually been to an Apple Store? Nothing happens in under 15 minutes (Except for the draining of your wallet part. That usually happens incredibly quickly.) or involves fewer than 3 employees. They also tend to lease an insane amount of square footage in some of the most expensive real estate on the planet.
I think $79 was at the upper end of reasonable, but $29 is probably not a break even for them, unless someone else is underwriting some of the cost. The company I work for bills out technician labor at nominal rates up to $200 / hr. So even a 15 min repair would cost the customer $50 in labor. Fortune 500 companies tend to have a *lot* of overhead.
As to this being a design flaw, what you’re saying is that in the past 3 years Apple has realeased 7 iPhone models, with 3 different SoCs, various PMICs, countless batches of batteries sourced from multiple suppliers and produced at different facilities, all with a similar hardware problem. Furthermore, Apple has known about and has actively been working on a solution to this problem for at least 15 months. Yet they continue to produce and sell at least 5 of those 7 models with no apparent hardware revisions. Do you really think the engineers discovered a hardware design flaw, but still pushed out some 350 million devices and thought, “Nah, it’s OK, we can fix this down the road in software.”? If a few capacitors could solve this issue, why wouldn’t they have added them years ago? That narrative doesn’t make any sense.
lmcd - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
$80 is a lot when considering Apple is at fault for pushing non-removable batteries in the first place.pfesser53 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Sign on speed-shop door: Speed Costs Money. How Fast Do You Want To Go?TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Batteries cost money. How long do you want your battery replaced for "free?"
Santoval - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
A recall would be irrelevant in this case, since it does not involve a hardware design but strictly iOS updates.Samus - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
Sure, let’s just recall all modern battery powered devices then. Android has had a similar kernel scheduler implementation since Donut, and Windows power management has had strategic component power optimization while on battery power since Windows 2000...although most of it can be overridden because the BIOS often allows CPU and chipset features, like turbo boost, to be forced while on DC power. By default, Intel mobile CPU’s do NOT boost on DC.But I don’t see HP and Lenovo being sued. They aren’t recalling anything.
The only time this would warrant a recall is if it was a safety issue. It isn’t. It’s an aging equipment issue. Batteries don’t last forever.
BehindEnemyLines - Wednesday, January 3, 2018 - link
That maybe true. CPUs on laptops are throttled because of thermal limit. They are not throttled because the battery is at 80% of its life. My 8-year old laptop battery has zero charge left but my CPU isn't throttled when it's plugged in. Apple intentionally throttled the phone EVEN when the phone is charging.CharonPDX - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
It's not a design fault. It's a reality of devices with Lithium-Ion batteries. The non-user-replacability makes it less convenient to resolve (by replacing the battery,) but it has always been possible to do outside Apple's official $79 method for much cheaper than Apple.maxijazz - Sunday, December 31, 2017 - link
That is design fault. If I have Apple Care then battery installed in phone should be big enough to avoid shutdowns and/or slow downs in the 2 years period. The batteries are too small.The slowdown fix i just scam so customers don't get free battery replacements while under warranty or Apple Care.
Many custumers who "detected" slowdowns were offered upgrades instead of free battery replacement by uninformed Apple staff. Many were just rejected battery replacement because battery was supposedly still healthy. That is scam continuation on Apple side.
I paid $100 for AC, was lied about my battery state and reasons for slowdown, and now should buy battery out of pocket?
BehindEnemyLines - Wednesday, January 3, 2018 - link
Of course it's a design fault. The question was it intentional or accidental. Apple and all manufacturers know how lithium-ion batteries behave as a function of time, charging/discharging rate, cycles, and temperature. These factors are *known* at the beginning of design. They know exactly the processor demands are. They know exactly how the battery degrades. This is engineering 101. You stack up all the ways that the battery can degrade and you size the battery properly for its demand.uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The real problem here seems to be that at least some iPhones do only work as intended with a new or almost new battery. This is either a design problem with the phone or a problem with the batteries. A recall indeed would be in order here.Having to throttle phones with a somewhat degraded battery because they shut down due to voltage drops otherwise is just a software workaround for a hardware problem.
Normally you would expect just shorter battery life with a degraded battery and offering a throttle mode to keep up battery life then would be a somewhat nice idea, but if you HAVE to throttle the phone then to stop it from shutting down unexpectedly this is a totally different thing.
repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
How many devices less than 1 year old (i.e. within Apple’s standard limited warranty period) have had their performance reduced by the new iOS DVFS algorithms specifically designed to avoid excessive current being drawn from the battery?What was the degree of actual, real-world performance reduction and typical duration of the slow-down for these devices?
I think there is considerable misrepresentation of the situation here. Apple does have an extended repair program for a small range of iPhone 6s’s that had a very specific, yet unrelated, battery issue that also resulted in unexpected shutdowns. I don’t see any evidence that this otherwise affects devices with new or “like-new” batteries in any way.
repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
@uhuznaa Sorry, I didn’t read your comment properly. I see what you’re saying. It’s not that this is affecting devices with like-new batteries, but that they shouldn’t fall off a cliff as quickly as they appear to.willis936 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I had my battery in my 6S plus replace a year ago. More than 50 GB of NAND is free. Why is the phone slow? While I’m at it why did ios 11 introduce a ton of bugs that were only recently fixed? Why does my phone shut itself off when plugged into a wall charger (but only sometimes)?pfesser53 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Batteries degrade over time; that is an inescapable fact, and the primary way they manifest that degradation is by a slow rise in internal impedance. Heavy loads then cause the battery's output voltage to sag, possibly resulting in unstable operation. That's physics - not collusion. The battery is the weak link in any phone; the Samsung pants-on-fire debacle is a good example, and I, for one, laud Apple in thinking ahead to this scenario when the phone was designed - allowing iPhone users to keep using their old phones as long as possible.uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
No, this throttling was added with a iOS update after the fact. Apple designed these phones to work as intended with new batteries only and had to add software to throttle it when the battery degrades to keep the phone from shutting down then. This is not "thinking ahead", it is running after.I mean, I can't complain: My three years old iPhone 6 still has 97% battery capacity and has neither shorter battery life nor has it become slower. But if a degraded battery means they have to throttle the phone to keep it running at all this is a design problem. This is not normal and it seems they realized this problem only after selling millions and millions of the things.
willis936 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Close but you forgot that power supplies exist.lilmoe - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
You *applaud* Apple for intentionally shipping defective, under-engineered products ("thinking ahead"), and allowing (lol, "allowing") iPhone users to "keep" using their degraded phones (which wasn't what they paid for) and CHARGING THEM to fix that defect?My God, this comment section is rich. I mean, Apple fans should get a noble prize for blind following and foot licking. I mean, I really thought I can handle that shill-train because it just couldn't get any worse, but alas, you guys never fail to amaze.
You also managed to snark at Samsung's UNINTENTIONAL battery issues? The problems which they FULLY took responsibility for, compensated the owners, offered discounts on future products, and took a MAJOR hit on their income statement and vowed never to happen again?
We're far and beyond strawman territory. I tip my hat to you. Bravo.
beisat - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
My iPhone 6 battery seems to be really degraded, judging by what unoffical apps like battery life tell me. And one really notices it. The phone feels slow as hell, opening apps etc take for ever. I only ever charged with the offical power supply or USB, so I guess it mist be age. Will habe it repöaced now - I dont mind that batteries degrade, but not telling me how bad it was and just slowing everything down I find really quite bad.sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Beside repairing PCs, I did iPhones and iPads as well (battery, display replacements, etc.). A new battery only costs about $5 and replacing it only takes 5 minutes. $79 + tax is a rip-off. $29 is still too much but the bigger problem is the iOS 11.2. Any iPhone and iPad updated to that version or later would suffer in performance not only from the software throttles the Soc but also from the battery monitoring of that software itself.Apple's recent statements are pure bullshits. If the battery degrades, it can only hold less charge. Say an old battery can only hold 50% charge compared to a new one when full, isn't it the same as a new battery with 50% charged?
I accidentally updated my iPhone 6s just couple weeks ago. Now I can only hope those lawsuits come thru to force Apple allows firmware downgrade. Or I WILL NEVER buy another Apple product again.
sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Apple faces avalanche of lawsuits over deliberate obsolescence of iPhoneshttps://www.rt.com/business/414464-apple-more-suit...
repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Apple faces avalanche of troll posts by parties deliberately attempting to influence public opinion / stock price. More news at 11:00.repoman27 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
No, it isn’t the same. Internal resistance increases and open cell voltage decreases. It shifts the whole curve (see Andrei’s previous post).Also, what makes you think iOS 11.2 targets iPads with reduced battery life?
So how much did the shop you worked for charge the customer for a battery replacement? How much did they pay you? Did you both profit reasonably from that type of repair?
sonny73n - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Blah blah the Apple rat. Sure the voltage will decrease but that's the same with new battery when amp decreases. A dead new battery has no voltage. You should go back to school.I own my own shop and I make enough to buy me anything I want.
shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
A dead new battery without voltage is dead and shouldn't be used again, unless you want explosions in your future.The issue Apple has encountered is something like this example:
New full battery under no load: 4.20V.
New full battery under 2Amp load: 4.17V
New full battery under 4Amp load: 4.15V
Old full battery under no load: 4.20V
Old full battery under 2Amp load: 3.9V
Old full battery under 4Amp load: 1.5V (too low, phone shuts down).
So their solution was to limit power draw to 2Amp (hypothetical).
The proper solution would've been to either make the iphone thicker so they could fit in a battery twice as big, or, counterintuitively, use a battery with lower capacity that is optimized for providing more power.
sonicmerlin - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
My iPhone 6s had zero problems on iOS 9. Battery life was same as when I first got it. Zero slowdown. Then I updated and suddenly I’m being throttled? I had no shutdowns! I never had any instability! And to top it off iOS 11 is a buggy stutterfest that drains battery life.serendip - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Safer to use only the 40-80% charge range on any new phone to keep the battery healthy for longer. Higher states of charge mean higher voltage while draining too low causes the cell to go near the voltage limit. Both cases aren't optimal. I usually use my phone until it drops to 40% charge, then I recharge to only 80% while keeping the phone cool. It also helps I've got a huge 5000 mAh battery.Of course, Apple could have used larger batteries so a degraded battery still can put out enough voltage but that's another story.
willis936 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The only correct response? Nowhere in their response did they mention the ability to disable these software “features” that lower performance to extend battery life. It is indeed a lie to say that a partially aged battery cannot sustain a phone’s load. I have owned three androids and driven each of them into the ground. The only phone I’ve ever had that shuts down randomly is my iphone 6S plus and it only does it while plugged in. Apple needs to get their act together if they want to justify thousand dollar price tags.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
> It is indeed a lie to say that a partially aged battery cannot sustain a phone’s load. I have owned three androids and driven each of them into the ground.It doesn't have to be a lie, please read my initial post on iPhone vs Android devices;
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12184/apple-confirm...
It well technically possible that iPhones are simply more prone to the issue.
shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Perhaps Anandtech has the resources and manpower to "guesstimate" *peak* power draws of various phone SoCs (plus their screens, radios, flash, storage, etc etc), and compare it with battery capacity, AND battery energy density (that is, how much capacity have they crammed in how much physical space?).I believe such a table would show the iphone is operating with a heavier strain on its battery than any other smartphone.
I'll start with a datapoint from the other extreme end of the spectrum, the Oukitel K10000.
Quad core Mediatek MT6735P @ 1.0Ghz paired with a 10,000mAh battery.
zodiacfml - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I agree. There is no desire from Apple to disable nor they going to stop from doing these. A slow phone doesn't easily show itself as a battery issue, only annoying the user. A restarting or shutting down phone guarantees a visit to the service center, replacing the batteryElstar - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Why do so many people assume that "tech" is magically immune to normal wear and tear? Would you rather have device makers throttle the products for entire lifetime of the product just so that it works when the battery gets old? Or would you rather have the best performance for any stage of the products usable lifetime?uhuznaa - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I just want to see what's going on: When the battery degrades I'll notice that by shorter battery life and then can either charge the phone more often or replace the battery. I do not want software updates that hide an aging battery by throttling my phone. Because then you will never know if it's just the new OS version that runs slower or the phone is deliberately throttled to hide the degrading battery.And especially I don't want a company use software tricks like throttling to hide the fact that their phones can't work with degrading batteries without rebooting at load peaks because they used razor-thin margins in their power/voltage designs that only are just this side of good as long as the battery is brand new.
shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
In this case the "shorter battery life" meant 0.002 seconds.willis936 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Point out where people are upset about working around the reality of the problems. You’re making a counter argument where no one has made an original argument.zodiacfml - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Whatever. The official statement sounds fishy already as the initial words used usually comes from a liar.A perfectly working phone but with slow performance doesn't show itself as an issue to the user but only a desire to upgrade. A restarting or shutting down is almost always a trip to the service center.
In the end, Apple has decided they still end up better with a discounted battery replacement job for some and a user upgrading from a perfectly usable phone than removing the throttling mechanism.
HStewart - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I have 128G iPhone 6 that I purchase when first release and had no reboot issues. Yes the battery life seems to go down faster - but I believe it because of changes in iOS. Newer versions of iOS seem to have much more notifications now and as a developer, I expect those to eat of battery life.I been thinking of getting a newer iPhone, but the iPhone X is still more expensive and only in larger size which I don't care for. The size of iPhone 6 ( not 6 plus ) is perfect and going to wait for iPhone X style that is both cheaper and in that size.
mobutu - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Just make the batteries user replaceable again ... easy, logic, common sense solution.krumme - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Smoke and mirrors or they would have informed the public years ago.They didnt, for the reason we all know.
Simple as that.
jrs77 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I simply take off the backcover of my Lumia 530 and replace the battery, which I can still buy original batteries for btw for €19.FunBunny2 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
question: what's the shelf life of such Li-ion batteries?? stock up a decade's worth?jrs77 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
They don't last forever obviously, but you can easily store them for 10 years, if you check that they're charged every now and then.MicroGadgetHacker - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
I don't see how Apple should be apologizing for this - with the possible exception that they should have been upfront about the throttling feature.Have you tried running Windows 10 on an older memory limited laptop? It's less responsive and tends to max the cpu frequently and decimates the battery run time. Why? Because Microsoft is adding features to take advantage of the CPU power they have available on newer hardware. Apple is doing the same thing and is partially compelled to do so because of competition from Android.
My two year old power drill, weed trimmer, laptop, tablet, etc are all showing signs of battery wear. Can't use 1" bits anymore, can't finish edging whole yard, etc, etc due to normal wear. Heck my 5 year old car battery just refused to start my car in the cold temps outside - am I going to sue the car maker? That's ridiculous.
Get a new battery installed in your phone if you've been a heavy user for 2+ years. Batteries are like tires - they wear out quicker the harder you use them.
HiOahuPhone - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
The volume issue is so irritating. I (and others) spent time at the genius bar, cleaning our phones etc.... and it never was fixed. The CPU slowdown is a another problem. I would have never guessed that the volume issue was software based. So many people were complaining and got new phones. Ridiculous.HiOahuPhone - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
When the "geniuses" have no clue what is going on and why your phone is SUPER SLOW and SUPER SOFT, then this is a problem. I don't understand why people are defending this? Yeah, we all understand how batteries work and guess what? If a battery was causing shutdowns, then maybe we change the battery OK? Don't sneakily slow down the phone, make it soft, screw up software performance and not tell your front line support people. Don't defend this kind of action.atirado - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
They are trying to do what they can at the time being, but this unlikely to make people happy. Let's hope they develop a dynamic approach to power management based on PMIC that makes things better, i.e. Give you the option to choose performance over stability.In any case, some of Apple's design decisions are odd. Here's an example taken from https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-perform...
"iPhone, iPad, iPod, and Apple Watch work best at 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C) ambient temperatures."
The Apple Watch, a device designed to be sitting next to human skin, does not work very well at body temperature (~37° C).
antm86 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
This has to be the most trying to sound smart but having zero knowledge of what I’m talking about comment I’ve read all year! The internal temperature of your body is 37 degrees Celsius. The external is close to room temperature especially on your hand where there is no much blood flow to keep it in even internally to 37 degrees so no the watch should not work at 37 degrees unless you planning on surgically implanting itdivertedpanda - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
What do you tell people who live in states that reach the High 90s to 100s ?FunBunny2 - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
will no one explain (or, if so, where??) how it is that the "problem" only manifests with this latest iOS?? IOW, what is in the new version that demands only a "new" iPhone?? IOW, yet again, why shouldn't the OS know which version of the hardware it is running, and if not the "latest" hardware just not run the "new" functions which cause "old" iPhones to croak??? not a hard problem, ya know.shadowjk - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Old iOS: Phone randomly dies/reboots. Cause: phone tried to draw more power from the battery than the battery is able to supply.New iOS: Phone no longer randomly dies/reboots, because the CPU is throttled so that maximum power draw from battery is limited.
Then on top of you that, you've got the normal things influencing performance: New operating systems have more features, programmers rely on more performance from the system, websites and apps keep relying on systems getting faster and faster.
The other day my gf asked me to help figure out why her PC was running so slow. It seemed to be constantly swapping. The web browser was consuming enormous amounts of memory. Turned out the facebook tab was using around 12 gigabytes of memory. Closing the tab and reopening facebook fixed it. She wasn't entirely happy about losing the state of that tab, but happy enough to get performance back.
sonicmerlin - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
I have never had an iPhone randomly reboot or shut down on me because of a degraded battery. My 6S certainly never did that. So why the heck am I suddenly being throttled in iOS 11?No one ever asked for this “feature”, or complained about degraded batteries.
shadowjk - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
It's obvious Apple's implementation of it is flawed, and errs on the conservative side, throttling where it's not yet necessary.sonicmerlin - Friday, December 29, 2017 - link
Why is this even necessary? I updated from iOS 9 to 11 and my phone just tanked. The battery life and performance were completely fine on iOS 9. I had zero issues. I didn’t experience anything related to “battery degradation” like decreased battery life or random shutdowns. Then I installed iOS 11 and now I’m getting nearly 50% performance on geekbench and my phone is stuttering like crazy. And my battery life is significantly *worse* than it was on iOS 9.How is any of that justifiable? Why is Apple’s throttling so ridiculously aggressive?
Lau_Tech - Saturday, December 30, 2017 - link
Well... at least we now have some idea why android phones have been around 3000 mah for the last 3 years or so.I laughed out loud when I saw the list of things affected by Apple's "solution".
if you dont work for/ or profit from apple in some way you are an utter sheep to defend them on this. Customers should not fall in love with Companies.
izmanq - Monday, January 1, 2018 - link
that is just bullshit :v and apple fanboys eat it :vharryseth - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
After fooling us for more than a decade, Apple is trying its best to show the positive image of their standing in the market. https://ios12guide.com/harryseth - Monday, May 28, 2018 - link
We are just few days away from the iOS 12 beta download release for developers. Apple has prepared everything for the developers only launch event. You can download iOS 12 beta for your iPhone and iPad device using our services.https://iostrends.com/ios-12-beta-download/
ramadevi - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
iPhone can cause you any number of issues,it's a buzzword for a reason, however now and again just restarting your iPhone can clear up issues that range from battery deplete to terrible Wi-Fi andBluetooth to making trouble applications. You can basically shut down and control up or, on the off chance that you need to, you can hard reboot.If not possible visit here https://ipremiumindia.com
Nataliawill - Wednesday, August 22, 2018 - link
The company said that some iPhones were having problems when their battery had depleted. Apple is offering cheaper upgrades on your battery, and if your phone is currently having its performance restricted, that will help. but There are some important caveats to this offer.Haunt - Monday, August 5, 2019 - link
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