I don't get the memory limitation either. The CPU supports it. I have Atom devices that are limited to 2GB by CPU support and they really feel gimped because of this and much of the usefulness is gone. An extra 2GB couldn't have increased the price by that much but then again maybe they actually researched the market before coming out with this.
In seriousness though, good call. I'd only skimmed the article and didn't realize quite how small it was. If the memory is soldered on, all the more reason to ignore this.
Yeah, 2GB RAM is a joke in 2017, 4GB is the absolute minimum and 8GB should be the standard. Considering the size, I'm guessing the RAM may very well be soldered onto the board - hopefully AT will get one of these in for review and teardown.
I mean yeah its silly to have the ram limitation but when the hell would a HTPC need 8gb ram? I've never seen my traditional desktop pc go above ~7gb since I don't video edit or anything.
My Atom x5-Z8300, 2GB RAM (Win10 Home) tablet that I use for this exact purpose very happily slows down after filling all the available RAM, sometimes even accompanied by the "running low on memory, close some programs" popup. But maybe some 2GB of RAM are better than others. I would have been a lot happier with 4GB of RAM but the CPU can't handle it.
Win10 Home supports 128GB of RAM. Is there a licensing limitation (like the use of a maximum screen diagonal, RAM, etc.) that would limit it to 2GB? Also the form factor made me think that the RAM is soldered especially since I don't know of any 2GB LPDDR4 module.
Looks like a nice little box but knowing how a Cherry Trail 2GB RAM device behaves I can't really be excited about an Apollo Lake 2GB RAM device when the CPU itself isn't actually the limitation. I am curious about the pricing though.
Yeah different CPUs can manage memory differently. I think Windows S would be perfect for this little box with Plex, Kodi and Netflix already available in Windows Store.
Agreed, 4GB would be plenty for 90% of usage scenarios. 2GB is too constrictive and means the Windows swap file is in use all the time. This drastically reduces the lifetime of your eMMC. Also 32GB of storage is a real pain with Windows 10. You need to remove programs sometimes to install the giant Windows Updates! My brother has one of those HP Streams that have an Atom chip and 32GB of eMMC. I had to connect a USB HDD to install the last Windows update for him.
The fullscreen Best Buy ads that you're running on the site right now are really annoying because they load on every page and I have to scroll to the very top to get rid of them. Please stop with annoying ads AnandTech or I am going to stop visiting.
Yeah, but I like AnandTech, so I'm OK with them getting ad revenue from me. Just not freaking fullscreen ads that load in when I've already scrolled down the page and forces me to scroll to the top in order to close.
That's exactly the point. Give them the ad revenue until it becomes an unbearable experience. That motivates them to cut back on garish ads that make you wonder how little price do some sites put on their image.
I still think the J4205 in NUC/mini-STX form factor would be the thing. I had to buy ASRock's mini-ITX board to get that chip, but it's really the Apollo Lake you want.
It's really disappointing that Optane isn't supported by Celerons, Pentiums or M/Y-series processors. I would think this is the primary target for gen 1 where the sizes are so low (16gb and 32gb). In any event, this is potentially a nice little htpc box with the hardware decode.
M / Y series I can understand, but Optane is a high cost option, so it wouldn't make sense for budget CPUs I think. Though for me, the whole idea of 16/32GB ultra high speed caching is not so clear on the consumer side.
Looks like USB sticks are their target. Basically the same, but with more "added value" by way of more ports, including wired ethernet.
Regardless, I agree with what others have said regarding RAM. Why load it with Win 10 64 bit then gimp it with 2GB? Not enough storage for much of anything. I'm not sure what they are going for here, but in the race to the bottom, sometimes you can go to low.
LOL you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, 24W is for the whole box not just CPU. This Apollo Lake cpu uses 4-6W, get your facts straight.
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vladx - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Awesome little box to use as HTPC.HideOut - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Would be nice to have a bit more RAM, min 4gb with option of maybe 8. And 64gb of solid storage too.close - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
I don't get the memory limitation either. The CPU supports it. I have Atom devices that are limited to 2GB by CPU support and they really feel gimped because of this and much of the usefulness is gone. An extra 2GB couldn't have increased the price by that much but then again maybe they actually researched the market before coming out with this.p1esk - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Windows.neo_1221 - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Those should all be upgradeable - I want more USB ports. Still, if it's cheap enough...WorldWithoutMadness - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
Upgradeable? Tell me how you'll fit a sodimm socket that dimension 70x70mmneo_1221 - Thursday, May 11, 2017 - link
http://downloadmoreram.com/In seriousness though, good call. I'd only skimmed the article and didn't realize quite how small it was. If the memory is soldered on, all the more reason to ignore this.
vladx - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Still good enough for movies and streaming.The_Assimilator - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Yeah, 2GB RAM is a joke in 2017, 4GB is the absolute minimum and 8GB should be the standard. Considering the size, I'm guessing the RAM may very well be soldered onto the board - hopefully AT will get one of these in for review and teardown.sc14s - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
I mean yeah its silly to have the ram limitation but when the hell would a HTPC need 8gb ram? I've never seen my traditional desktop pc go above ~7gb since I don't video edit or anything.vladx - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Exactly, even 2GB is plenty for some Plex/Kodi and Netflix.close - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
My Atom x5-Z8300, 2GB RAM (Win10 Home) tablet that I use for this exact purpose very happily slows down after filling all the available RAM, sometimes even accompanied by the "running low on memory, close some programs" popup. But maybe some 2GB of RAM are better than others. I would have been a lot happier with 4GB of RAM but the CPU can't handle it.Win10 Home supports 128GB of RAM. Is there a licensing limitation (like the use of a maximum screen diagonal, RAM, etc.) that would limit it to 2GB? Also the form factor made me think that the RAM is soldered especially since I don't know of any 2GB LPDDR4 module.
Looks like a nice little box but knowing how a Cherry Trail 2GB RAM device behaves I can't really be excited about an Apollo Lake 2GB RAM device when the CPU itself isn't actually the limitation.
I am curious about the pricing though.
vladx - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
Yeah different CPUs can manage memory differently. I think Windows S would be perfect for this little box with Plex, Kodi and Netflix already available in Windows Store.t.s - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
the CPU CAN handle it. It usually is limitation from windows (2GB free, 4 or more pay)close - Monday, May 15, 2017 - link
I know the CPU can handle it, I know Windows can handle it. The question was if there's any licensing limitation.Lolimaster - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
Maybe browsing the web?10-20tabs browsing easily eats 2GB of ram, Chrome barely runs with 4GB and 20+ tabs.
vladx - Monday, May 8, 2017 - link
Who'd be stupid to use an Apollo Lake box like this for that?helvete - Thursday, July 20, 2017 - link
"apart from being a cheap office PC attached to the backside of the display, of course"Einy0 - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
Agreed, 4GB would be plenty for 90% of usage scenarios. 2GB is too constrictive and means the Windows swap file is in use all the time. This drastically reduces the lifetime of your eMMC. Also 32GB of storage is a real pain with Windows 10. You need to remove programs sometimes to install the giant Windows Updates! My brother has one of those HP Streams that have an Atom chip and 32GB of eMMC. I had to connect a USB HDD to install the last Windows update for him.takeshi7 - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
The fullscreen Best Buy ads that you're running on the site right now are really annoying because they load on every page and I have to scroll to the very top to get rid of them. Please stop with annoying ads AnandTech or I am going to stop visiting.close - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
When a site starts using intrusive ads I usually just turn on the adblocker. It's a good way of not cutting your nose to spite your face.takeshi7 - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Yeah, but I like AnandTech, so I'm OK with them getting ad revenue from me. Just not freaking fullscreen ads that load in when I've already scrolled down the page and forces me to scroll to the top in order to close.close - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
That's exactly the point. Give them the ad revenue until it becomes an unbearable experience. That motivates them to cut back on garish ads that make you wonder how little price do some sites put on their image.shabby - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
Just turned off my adblocker... jeez, on you go.helvete - Thursday, July 20, 2017 - link
Are you really deliberately watching the ads? Are you clicking them and buying stuff from the advertised company to support AT as well?mode_13h - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
I still think the J4205 in NUC/mini-STX form factor would be the thing. I had to buy ASRock's mini-ITX board to get that chip, but it's really the Apollo Lake you want.manikandan - Friday, May 5, 2017 - link
nice pc pretty cool oneKakti - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
It's really disappointing that Optane isn't supported by Celerons, Pentiums or M/Y-series processors. I would think this is the primary target for gen 1 where the sizes are so low (16gb and 32gb). In any event, this is potentially a nice little htpc box with the hardware decode.Death666Angel - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
M / Y series I can understand, but Optane is a high cost option, so it wouldn't make sense for budget CPUs I think. Though for me, the whole idea of 16/32GB ultra high speed caching is not so clear on the consumer side.edcoolio - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
Looks like USB sticks are their target. Basically the same, but with more "added value" by way of more ports, including wired ethernet.Regardless, I agree with what others have said regarding RAM. Why load it with Win 10 64 bit then gimp it with 2GB? Not enough storage for much of anything. I'm not sure what they are going for here, but in the race to the bottom, sometimes you can go to low.
vladx - Saturday, May 6, 2017 - link
Windows S would work great on this.helvete - Thursday, July 20, 2017 - link
yeah, why even 64-bit for 2GiBs of RAM?t.s - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
Hopefully they sell it on 2 version: non-os and windows 10. I will happily use it for kiosk if the price it right. Will bought non-os version.helvete - Thursday, July 20, 2017 - link
exactly, running some nice distro on it.Lolimaster - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
2cores? WTF is that sh*t.You can get the full AMD Merlin Falcon APU RX-421BD
Full 4 Excavator cores, Full 512SP gpu @800Mhz
25w
Intel is so behind in efficiency/cpu.
vladx - Monday, May 8, 2017 - link
LOL you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, 24W is for the whole box not just CPU. This Apollo Lake cpu uses 4-6W, get your facts straight.Lolimaster - Sunday, May 7, 2017 - link
SmachZ handheld gaming pc.RX-421BD
8GB
Windows10
Metro: Last Light Redux (720p. High settings) ~ 35 FPS
Company of Heroes 2 (720p. Medium settings) ~ 25 FPS
Jotun (1080p) ~ 45 FPS
Skyrim (720p. High setting) ~ 25 FPS
Just Cause 2 (720p. Medium settings) ~ 35 FPS
Spiral Knights (1080p) ~ 50 FPS
Overwatch (720p. Medium) ~ 30 FPS
Torchlight II (1080p. Very high settings) ~ 35 FPS
Xcom: Enemy Unknown (720p. High settings) ~30 FPS
Civilization 5 (1080p. High settings) ~ 28 FPS
Tomb Raider: Survivor (720p. Medium settings) ~ 40 FPS
Alien: Isolation (720p. Ultra settings) ~ 35 FPS
vladx - Monday, May 8, 2017 - link
Also this is not a gaming box, it's for either office work or media consumption.