Sad to see no comments since 2003! ???
Looking for a good power supply for AMD and review indicates that both Fortron & Zalman are good at not too high price. But looking at Antec True Power 330W I read "beware of the extremely modest +12V rail. If you are running a high end video card, or an Intel Pentium 4, this power supply simply will not produce enough juice." Both the Fortron &n Zalman deliver just 180 watts on the +12V rail while the Antec True Power 330W puts out 204 watts. And if you look at the whole list of PSUs reviewed 204 watts looks like a respecatable amount of power. So ... ????????????????????
You state for those PSU's that have good amoubt of voltage for the 3,3V are good for AMD.
It will also be nice to say that most new motherboard from AMD are now using 12 RAIL e.g. 8RDA3+ many more and from what ive seen all K8 mobos use 12 RAIL
all in all good review.
What i have found with my TT320W that when you stress it too much and it heats up it will shit down whole system.
Also if your PC is off for many hours if you touch the PSU its worm :S
Ordered my Antec 550W True Control
Also you should show how to short the old PSU so user can use 2 PSU in one system..
I run my whole system on a 480W ProSourse untill my 550W Antec TC is here
My GFFX5900 runs on a dedicated PSU 300W soon it will have a dedicated 480 ProSource :D
And all my 12 fans run on a 300W generic PSU
Also TT's seem not to like when to many devices are connected to it
To know how much the exhaust air will heat a room you have to know not only its temperature but also its volume. It would be simpler to measure the efficiency of the supply.
The tests were not very thorough at all because if they were they would have included electrical noise and current measurements and testing at full power.
The memory errors could be due to bad filtering more than cable shielding. Putting a 'scope on the outputs would would provide a graphic portrayal of output quality. <hint, hint> :-)
I enjoyed reading the article and I think it was very well written and the tests were very thorough. Although the article discusses "heat" and examines each power supply to see how well they deal with the heat issue, I think from a consumers point of view, you should have measured the difference in the temperature of the exhaust that is emitted from the power supply. For me that is a real issue as the heat that emits from my existing power supply probably raises the room temperature by 7 to 8 degress (to the point of making it uncomforable to stay in the room on a hot day). I want a power supply that doesn't blow out hot air. Which one of these blows the coolest air?
As much care was taken in creating the title as in testing the power supplies.
I hope to see another Anandtech power supply review soon, only one with proper testing. I have to give Anandtech an A for effort in this case, but I can't still give them a passing grade. Please consult with a specialist in this field for any future test.
I cast another vote for us to be able to get a copy of the modified version of memtest86. I'd love to check to find out how much bit-flipping is happening over time on my various PCs. In addition, it seems to me that it would be a good way to see if ECC memory is actually doing what it should be. (If a bit gets flipped on a board with ECC memory that's supposed to support ECC memory then there's obviously something wrong).
Also, you should give a copy of your modified source to the memtest people so that they might include the long delay time as an option in a new version.
Any chance of a review of the silentmaxx fanless 350W. This thing has no fans so in theory it should be 0Dba! Not sure where the poewsupply is up to the job though on the poewer front - a review owuld be great. Cost as you probably guess is on the high side...
To me the most interesting data from this roundup was the instability a PS can cause to a system. I think this subject is worth a dedicated article. Also how can we reproduce this data at home? Where can we get the modified memtest86?
Hello!!??? Seasonic power supplies?? These have to be the quiestest power suplies I have ever (NOT) heard. Appears to be pretty well constructed. These should realy be included in any decent, comprehensive power supply round-up.
I got a PC P&C Silencer 300 a while back, and I was very unimpressed with its noise level. It was hardly quieter than the cheapo PSU it replaced. My Enermax 365 and Antec Truepower 350 are much better.
How about reviewing Seasonic? I hear they're super quiet. A little hard to find, though...
Untill all power supply manufacturers get it together and sheath their cables, we are pretty much stuck with what they offer. I solved this in my window case with some electrical conduit from the auto parts store. there are a few color choices including your basic black, but any of them make a world of difference hiding those unsightly P.S. cables. That and a little electrical tape over the white connector and they almost disappear.
Another extremely happy user with a PCP&C Silencer power supply. I do have to question just a bit why the reviewer didn't find out about their existence on his own, noise being the primary complaint in his review (though I imagine the sheer number of power supplies being reviewed and perhaps deadline pressure could have been factors).
With each review unit, show a picture of the insides. Some of us can tell the design differences by looking at a picture.
Claimed efficiency is a selling feature. An efficient unit doesn't need as much cooling air, and is easier on the electric bill.
See if you can rent a load tester. Do a current ramp on the rails, to see what kind of dynamic response the units have. On +12V, this would happen when going from stop-grant, to 100% computing load. Power supplies overshoot when this happens.
Your memory test is meaningless. A motherboard voltage regulator filters the rails, so this is unlikely to be a source of trouble with memory. Radiated emissions (E or M field) can influence circuitry, but you should use a spectrum analyser plus pickup coil to get some idea.
Another emission test, is EMI coming out of the power supply via the power cord. For example, my Truepower interferes with Channel 4 on my TV set. This means the common mode EMI filter at the input to the PS is insufficient. Consult with an EMI expert on how to measure this.
Overvoltage and overcurrent protection were not mentioned. Some units don't do it on all high output rails. Some don't do it at all. One unit had a circuit breaker on the back, which is a significant difference worth mentioning. The tolerance on some protection circuits is so sloppy, that the unit will burn before it trips.
No review I've read so far has mentioned this clause in the ATX spec which is available from formfactors.org "The maximum short-circuit energy in any output shall not exceed 240 VA, per IEC 60950 requirements." For the high power models which violate this fire containment requirement, will my house insurance cover me if my PC lights the house on fire ? This requirement could be met by using separate outputs for +12 to motherboard and +12 to drives. Fire danger is a good reason not to use acrylic windows on a PC case.
Hm... The memory test makes me wonder. Two things basically:
1) How do you know the errors really are caused by the PSU? The figures suggest that it is, but have all other possible sources been ruled out? The numbers are low, and could be random variations for all I know.
2) If memory content changes during 6 hours without read or write (and only the normal refresh), what does that mean for reliability on computers with up-times of months or even years? On the other hand, this could be the reason servers have ECC memory...
Without wishing to be defamatory, Q-Tec units suck. In life you get what you pay for. These units have no safety circuits at all. They are of 'unlimited' design and the only control mechanism is when a component blows up. In so doing it may well take your mobo etc with it. Their top of the range unit provides less power on the 3.3v and 5v rails that most quality 300 watt units.
You show the 'actual combined' on the huge EG651 Enermax at 200 watts. This is less than some 300 watt units. Why did you not highlight this? And why do Enermax put a 651 number on a 550 watt unit? Everyone else uses the number as the rated power figure.
I'd like to see reviews of Heroichi(HEC), aka Compucase, as well as Enlight, Topower and if possible Verudium PSUs. Also, the "ripple" measurements were only taken over a 30-60s duration, and only at full load. Other than the fact that what was measured isn't called "ripple" but actually the voltage fluctuation on the individual voltage rail, 30-60s sounds like a very short time window, and this should be measured both at idle and load conditions, since we all know that voltages tend to fluctuate when going from idle to load conditions and/or vice versa.
How about Topower PSU's? I have seen a review elsewhere that says their 400W has similar performance to Enermax's (at a much lower price), but it was nowhere near as in-depth as your article.
I personally thought the Antec True Power 330 was shining a little bit in this review. With 31.0 - 34.5 dBa noise, 26.5 - 33.8 C temp, on the lower end of memory errors, and a little tighter voltages than the average, it seems like it gives you the best combination of all categories. The only thing we're missing is some of the wattage testing. What do you guys think? And what about some of the other True Power product line - perhaps the 430 since 330 is at the lower end of PSU size that I would like to get for the power usage of any new computer (the True Control 550 is in a different product line than the True Power).
I personally thought the Antec True Power 330 was shining a little bit in this review. With 31.0 - 34.5 dBa noise, 26.5 - 33.8 C temp, on the lower end of memory errors, and a little tighter voltages than the average, it seems like it gives you the best combination of all categories. The only thing we're missing is some of the wattage testing. What do you guys think? And what about some of the other True Power product line - perhaps the 430 since 330 is at the lower end of PSU size that I would like to get for the power usage of any new computer (the True Control 550 is in a different product line than the True Power).
does it strike anyone else as odd that their memory if flopping bits left and right on their test? Dont know about you but i would prefer NO bit flips. :)
A few clicks of my calculator indicate that only the Zalman ZM400A-APS and Fortron FSP400-60PFN did significantly better than average on the Interference Test, and only the TTGI/Superflower 420SS and TTGI/Superflower 520SS 4Fan did significantly worse.
What were the results when different memory modules were tried, preferrably other makes of modules with other makes of chips? I'd like to know because the error rates indicated are roughly 10,000 to 1,000,000 times what memory manufacturers claim in actual systems.
I'm a bit confused over what it takes to be a good power supply? You slammed the Antec TruePower 330 for its "modest" +12 volt rail (204 watts). Yet you give the Frotron FSP400 your editors award and it only pumps 180 watts on the +12 volt rail. I would think this is a very important part of the formula for your pick since so many systems by your readers have high demands on the +12 volt rail due to the popularity of high end video cards. Comments?
Another agreement with #15 and #18. If you want quiet, go for the silencer series. They are the same PS with different cooling.
I discovered this when I found out what an outstanding company they are. My first PCP&C supply was a silencer 235, which is still running perfectly after 8 years. However, it wasn't enough juice for a P4 system. I wanted a new silencer with more power, but I balked at the price of the 400. I bought the turbocool 350 and boy was it loud! I called PCP&C and told them of my dilemna: what I really wanted was a silencer 350, which they didn't offer. NO PROBLEM! They put together a custom, full-warranty 350 silencer for me for $10 extra and shipped it right out.
The startling part of this review is that every power supply produced memory errors within six hours. It would seem every PC is unrealible and therefore worthless, regardless of the power supply. The cause could just as easily have been junk (noise, spikes, drop-outs, oscillations) on the power supply leads as electromagnetic interference. Or maybe it was a problem with the motherboard.
Another interesting fact is that all the power supplies preformed insignificantly different under the loads used. Good news for people using cheap power supplies.
It would be interesting to know what the loads on the different voltage supplies are for real PCs by actual measurement. Not guess, not calculation from the labels. Monitor the currents while you do some of those stressful mobo benchmarks. How much on 12V, 5V, 3.3V? Without numbers, it is impossible to gauge what realistic power supply specs should be.
Erm, don't know of any mobo using the +3.3 as source rail for an AMD cpu; perhaps you might look at the +5.0 as a candidate.
What 'theory' is behind that "theoretical combined" value? Meaningless, except to show a lack of understanding of how a 'standard' PSU is constructed (the only PSU where this would be comprehensible are the non-standard design Truepowers, where, of course, the value was ommitted).
A multimeter (or mobo sensor) gives only vague 'averages' of the madly fluctuating voltages that occur as millions of transistors switch on and off on each clock cycle; these broad values are only useful as an indicator of capacity/quality by the amount of sag between idle and load. You need a trapping 'scope' to nail the maximum variations to see the quality of the regulation (also to actually measure ripple).
Generally speaking, about 20W are consumed by the control (-) voltages, so that the total actual capacity of the three power rails is less than the claimed power. I have never seen a manufacturer claim a wattage not rounded to 5W, and just as the individual +3.3 and +5 wattages can 'sum' to a value greater than the TCO, so can the TCO and +12 wattages 'sum' to a number greater than the combined +3.3 +5 and +12 total wattage capacity. All of this leads to the impression that some table values (+12 in particular) were 'calculated' under some 'theory', and not the manufacturers' specs.
IF you mods want to play the PC card, they play it fairly or don't play it at all.
Why is a thread locked, when a person mentions a "blackie is aggressive, or these "africa americans are always aggressive".
Yet when another individual makes a similar thread, but this time ranting on "hispanics are all crazy etc etc" it doesn't get locked on.
Or this one is my favorite, i just saw a thread where someone mentioned his "retarded neighbour" lit fire to a paper roll or something. Now i thought calling someone retarded is not Political correct.
Like i said if you mods want to play the Political correctness game, then play it fairly or stop choosing at your will which threads offend you personally.
I assume this message won't get thru, because its sent from an anonymous. oh well.
While this review is better than most, I feel that the conclusions are flawed. Firstly, there is more to choosing a good PSU than mere performance figures alone, at time of testing, might suggest. Component quality was not taken into account, and is one reason why some PSUs cost more than others. Quality components lead to longer life, higher reliability, and less drifting of specifications over time.
A PSU that appears to be good value for money may not be so good when it fails and takes out your attached devices in the process.
Also, what happened to testing voltage stability under dynamic load conditions. You may find that some units that appeared to show good stability and low ripple under constant load conditions, will perform miserably under dynamic loads, which would be more like the conditions encountered in real usage senarios. Some poor designs may very well cause stability issues under such conditions, which were not apparent in the test results shown.
OK, I'm confused. Which rail is important to an AMD builder/overclocker? AMD's Power Supply PDF indicates that the mobo's switching power supply uses the 12V rail. My observation of several power supply specs and this article imply that the 3.3V rail actually supplies power to an AMD CPU. This article was clear about P4s using 12V rail. Which is it for AMD?? Or does it depend on the mobo manufacturer and how they decide to build their multi-phase switching regulator?
I would like to mention a few pitfalls with your article that are confusing to people I have talked to... Please accept this as constructive criticism as I do not intend to degrade the article in any way.
At first glance, I didn't know what you ment by "Theoretical Combined" in the specification table. I am assuming you did not read this off the power supply's label, but calculated it by adding the 3.3v and 5v lines. While this number (or variation of it) is usefull, I believe that "theoretical" is not the term you are looking for. This is definately NOT the theoretical power output of the combined 3.3/5v rail as the label on the PSU clearly states the theoretical peak power of the combined rail. There is circuitry in the PSU that determines what this theoretical peak power output is for the combined rail, and it has nothing to do with your calculated "theoretical combined" numbers given in the table.
I would encourage you to change the name of that column of your table, and modify the presentation of the number. I recommend giving a power delta from the MFG's specified peak power on the combined rail and your calculated combined rail and call it the "defficiency of combined". For instance: in the case of the Sparkle PSU, the MFG's spec says the combined rail can output a maximum of 220W. Your calculated combined power is 242.4W. I would recommend making the "defficiency of combined" colum state 22.4W. This would give people an idea that there is a 22.4W defficiency that must be spread over the 3.3V and 5V rails in real world usage. This would also reduce the confusion of the incorrect term of "combined theoretical".
The real meaning of "combined theoretical" is really what the MFG's specifications say. The real meaning of "actual combined" is really what you should have measured using something that slowly loads the PSU and then take the highest power output just before overload. I would also recommend that doing this slow power draw, let the PSU stand in that state for a few minutes before increasing power draw again (so increase the draw in steps, with a time interval in between each step) so you can get actual sustained power output.
For a more complete test of each individual rail, blow out 4 different PSU's by maxing out each individual rail, and then trying to max out the combined rail (without maxing out either of the 3.3/5v rails). I know this would be an expensive test, so I would recommend at least doing the latter test if only one PSU is available for testing.Some MFG's are including circuitry to detect overload and are shutting themselves down accordingly while others are just blowing themselves out upon overload. If you frowned upon blown out PSU's because of overloading in your review, it might give PSU MFG's incentive to include this circuitry in future revisions.
I commend you on your memtest86 results. This is a very good idea, and I'm sure it took up much of your time. Thank you for these results.
I posted a comment in the forum "articles" section, but since you removed it, I'll go ahead and repost.
Post #15 and #18 have the right info regarding PCP&C silencer PSU's.
I have 2 SILENCER 400W PSU's by them and wouldn't trade it in for anything. As your tests prove, PCP&C make extremely high quality, ripple superior PSU's.
If you overclock, you'll never have to worry about your PSU being the problem if its from them. I hope you guys will get a 400W silencer so you can test and hear the difference.
Kristopher - You obviously have spent a *LOT* of time and effort on this article but your technical knowledge is insufficient to produce meaningful valid results. You have made so many glaring technical mistakes/errors (it would take pages to correct them) that everything you presented is suspect. On a positive note, I volunteer to proof/edit/correct any future articles that you propose if you desire. You have my email.
Kristopher You obviously have spent a *LOT* of time and effort on this article but your technical knowledge is insufficient to produce meaningful valid results. You have made so many glaring technical mistakes/errors (it would take pages to correct them) that everything you presented is suspect. On a positive note, I volunteer to proof/edit/correct any future articles that you propose if you desire. You have my email.
#11, yes P=IxV, but the power ratings in the table were obviously taken from manufacturers' data rather than actual measurements, which is why when any power rating for any of the positive voltages is divided by that voltage, the quotient exactly equals an integer. That would not be a problem if all manufacturers applied identical standards to their specifications, but many computer users have learned that this isn't the case.
Perhaps you could include a Q-Tec PSU in the next review? They retail here in Sweden at about 60% of the price of corresponding Enermax and other high quality units, so assuming they aren't totally lousy they're very cheap.
I agree with #15. Definitely take a look at the PC Power and Cooling 400w Silencer PSU. I own two of these units and they're very high quality with reasonably low noise.
Enlight power supplies are always being excluded from these PSU comparsions. I have a Enlight 360W PSU and it's very stable and very quiet. Test some Enlight PSUs!
I appreciated the comments concerning AMD users, but what I really need is some sort of guidance on AMD processor speed vs combined power or 3.3V rail current for upgrading older systems. Many older cases have limited power supplies and I'm trying to figure out the fastest processor I can install and still have reliable operation. Example: A 300 watt supply with 25A of 3.3V can only support up to a Athlon 1600+ on an ECS K7S5A Pro or a 350 watt with a combined power of 200W can support up to 2200+. Oh, and forget that old 250 watt power supply altogether. I need something like that... yeah, I know: your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law, no watts were endangered in the making of this article.....:-)
Hey guys, im sure 1 or 2 of you resistorheads are an ee or will soon be one.. ripple and noise are only part of a good pwr supply.. we need the facts... how many watts do these power supplies really put out. how do they respond with a big load.. will they take an overload.. how well are they protected...thats what i wanna read about
1. No amp measurements were listed, a serious deficiency because without them there is no way to know how well each PS met its amp specs, and many brands are known to fall short.
2. No overload testing results for shorts, excessive power draw, excessive temperature.
3. Ripple is not just slow voltage variation also short term variation, such as for each AC cycle (60 Hz for the incoming AC, about 60,000 Hz for the output DC). I would have liked to see how the latter correlated with the memory noise test results.
4. I hope you were careful when you tested the PS heatsink temperatures because some heatsinks are live with high voltage.
Well for the observent people who can differentiate between orange and blue, its not an issue. Also waiting a full second before clicking it reveals the location on both the bottom left and the mouse cursor. but i can see how it does get annoying.
yeah those in page advertisements are REALLY annoying...those have got to go. i never know when i'm going to link to another anandtech article or to an ad...i guess that's the point but it's still unacceptable
Some of your "In Page Advertising" links seem to be missing closing links tags or something so that it results in having a <link> in the middle or end of a sentence. Ex. "We had a lot of troubles with Vantec’s last power supply, the Stealth. We found an error in the production label<link>, which quickly led to a change in all the labeling on all Stealth power supplies."
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unclebud - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link
i came in here today looking for just the same thing though!we needs a new ps article! thanks in advance anandtech!
JustAnAverageGuy - Sunday, January 30, 2005 - link
Dopey:It's an extremely old article. Nobody reads those except when they need to be pulled out of the vault.
Dopey - Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - link
Sad to see no comments since 2003! ???Looking for a good power supply for AMD and review indicates that both Fortron & Zalman are good at not too high price. But looking at Antec True Power 330W I read "beware of the extremely modest +12V rail. If you are running a high end video card, or an Intel Pentium 4, this power supply simply will not produce enough juice." Both the Fortron &n Zalman deliver just 180 watts on the +12V rail while the Antec True Power 330W puts out 204 watts. And if you look at the whole list of PSUs reviewed 204 watts looks like a respecatable amount of power. So ... ????????????????????
MIDIman - Friday, November 7, 2003 - link
I bought the Zalman 300w for $50 as a result of this article. Love it to death, but newegg stopped carrying it.1) What size fan is in the Fotron reviewed here, 120mm or 80mm?
2) What is the model number of the 300w alternative to the Fortron FSP400-60PFN?
3) Isn't the Sparkle FSP350-60PN reviewed here also a fotron, and what is the model number of its 300w alternative?
Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link
You state for those PSU's that have good amoubt of voltage for the 3,3V are good for AMD.It will also be nice to say that most new motherboard from AMD are now using 12 RAIL e.g. 8RDA3+ many more and from what ive seen all K8 mobos use 12 RAIL
all in all good review.
What i have found with my TT320W that when you stress it too much and it heats up it will shit down whole system.
Also if your PC is off for many hours if you touch the PSU its worm :S
Ordered my Antec 550W True Control
Also you should show how to short the old PSU so user can use 2 PSU in one system..
I run my whole system on a 480W ProSourse untill my 550W Antec TC is here
My GFFX5900 runs on a dedicated PSU 300W soon it will have a dedicated 480 ProSource :D
And all my 12 fans run on a 300W generic PSU
Also TT's seem not to like when to many devices are connected to it
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - link
To know how much the exhaust air will heat a room you have to know not only its temperature but also its volume. It would be simpler to measure the efficiency of the supply.The tests were not very thorough at all because if they were they would have included electrical noise and current measurements and testing at full power.
Anonymous User - Saturday, September 13, 2003 - link
The memory errors could be due to bad filtering more than cable shielding. Putting a 'scope on the outputs would would provide a graphic portrayal of output quality. <hint, hint> :-)*TimDaniels*
Anonymous User - Sunday, September 7, 2003 - link
I enjoyed reading the article and I think it was very well written and the tests were very thorough. Although the article discusses "heat" and examines each power supply to see how well they deal with the heat issue, I think from a consumers point of view, you should have measured the difference in the temperature of the exhaust that is emitted from the power supply. For me that is a real issue as the heat that emits from my existing power supply probably raises the room temperature by 7 to 8 degress (to the point of making it uncomforable to stay in the room on a hot day). I want a power supply that doesn't blow out hot air. Which one of these blows the coolest air?Anonymous User - Friday, August 22, 2003 - link
As much care was taken in creating the title as in testing the power supplies.I hope to see another Anandtech power supply review soon, only one with proper testing. I have to give Anandtech an A for effort in this case, but I can't still give them a passing grade. Please consult with a specialist in this field for any future test.
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - link
Is it just me or does the article title seems a little off? "2003 Power Supply Roundup Part II: Better Faster Cheaper" Faster? A faster P/S?Anonymous User - Monday, August 18, 2003 - link
I cast another vote for us to be able to get a copy of the modified version of memtest86. I'd love to check to find out how much bit-flipping is happening over time on my various PCs. In addition, it seems to me that it would be a good way to see if ECC memory is actually doing what it should be. (If a bit gets flipped on a board with ECC memory that's supposed to support ECC memory then there's obviously something wrong).Also, you should give a copy of your modified source to the memtest people so that they might include the long delay time as an option in a new version.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 17, 2003 - link
Any chance of a review of the silentmaxx fanless 350W. This thing has no fans so in theory it should be 0Dba! Not sure where the poewsupply is up to the job though on the poewer front - a review owuld be great. Cost as you probably guess is on the high side...http://www.silentmaxx.net/silent_products/power_su...
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - link
To me the most interesting data from this roundup was the instability a PS can cause to a system. I think this subject is worth a dedicated article. Also how can we reproduce this data at home? Where can we get the modified memtest86?Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - link
Hello!!??? Seasonic power supplies?? These have to be the quiestest power suplies I have ever (NOT) heard. Appears to be pretty well constructed. These should realy be included in any decent, comprehensive power supply round-up.Anonymous User - Monday, August 11, 2003 - link
They didn't look at the seasonic brand. recommended herehttp://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.php?op=modlo...
Anonymous User - Monday, August 11, 2003 - link
I got a PC P&C Silencer 300 a while back, and I was very unimpressed with its noise level. It was hardly quieter than the cheapo PSU it replaced. My Enermax 365 and Antec Truepower 350 are much better.How about reviewing Seasonic? I hear they're super quiet. A little hard to find, though...
Anonymous User - Monday, August 11, 2003 - link
Untill all power supply manufacturers get it together and sheath their cables, we are pretty much stuck with what they offer. I solved this in my window case with some electrical conduit from the auto parts store. there are a few color choices including your basic black, but any of them make a world of difference hiding those unsightly P.S. cables. That and a little electrical tape over the white connector and they almost disappear.Anonymous User - Monday, August 11, 2003 - link
Another extremely happy user with a PCP&C Silencer power supply. I do have to question just a bit why the reviewer didn't find out about their existence on his own, noise being the primary complaint in his review (though I imagine the sheer number of power supplies being reviewed and perhaps deadline pressure could have been factors).Anonymous User - Sunday, August 10, 2003 - link
This is actually the third power supply review on Anandtech. Not the second as you wrote.Anonymous User - Thursday, August 7, 2003 - link
#16, please check out http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_consumptio... for information on power consumption of several common CPUs (especially AMD).Anonymous User - Thursday, August 7, 2003 - link
With each review unit, show a picture of the insides. Some of us can tell the design differences by looking at a picture.Claimed efficiency is a selling feature. An efficient unit doesn't need as much cooling air, and is easier on the electric bill.
See if you can rent a load tester. Do a current ramp on the rails, to see what kind of dynamic response the units have. On +12V, this would happen when going from stop-grant, to 100% computing load. Power supplies overshoot when this happens.
Your memory test is meaningless. A motherboard voltage regulator filters the rails, so this is unlikely to be a source of trouble with memory. Radiated emissions (E or M field) can influence circuitry, but you should use a spectrum analyser plus pickup coil to get some idea.
Another emission test, is EMI coming out of the power supply via the power cord. For example, my Truepower interferes with Channel 4 on my TV set. This means the common mode EMI filter at the input to the PS is insufficient. Consult with an EMI expert on how to measure this.
Overvoltage and overcurrent protection were not mentioned. Some units don't do it on all high output rails. Some don't do it at all. One unit had a circuit breaker on the back, which is a significant difference worth mentioning. The tolerance on some protection circuits is so sloppy, that the unit will burn before it trips.
No review I've read so far has mentioned this clause in the ATX spec which is available from formfactors.org "The maximum short-circuit energy in any output shall not exceed 240 VA, per IEC 60950 requirements."
For the high power models which violate this fire containment requirement, will my house insurance cover me if my PC lights the house on fire ?
This requirement could be met by using separate outputs for +12 to motherboard and +12 to drives.
Fire danger is a good reason not to use acrylic windows on a PC case.
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
"Several months ago, we published our first power supply roundup."Do you mean this one from 42 months ago? :)
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1128&p...
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
pretty sweet review,the noise results were v interesting - does this mean that any computer without ECC memory is inherantly unstable?
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
Hm... The memory test makes me wonder. Two things basically:1) How do you know the errors really are caused by the PSU? The figures suggest that it is, but have all other possible sources been ruled out? The numbers are low, and could be random variations for all I know.
2) If memory content changes during 6 hours without read or write (and only the normal refresh), what does that mean for reliability on computers with up-times of months or even years? On the other hand, this could be the reason servers have ECC memory...
Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
Without wishing to be defamatory, Q-Tec units suck. In life you get what you pay for. These units have no safety circuits at all. They are of 'unlimited' design and the only control mechanism is when a component blows up. In so doing it may well take your mobo etc with it. Their top of the range unit provides less power on the 3.3v and 5v rails that most quality 300 watt units.Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
You show the 'actual combined' on the huge EG651 Enermax at 200 watts. This is less than some 300 watt units. Why did you not highlight this? And why do Enermax put a 651 number on a 550 watt unit? Everyone else uses the number as the rated power figure.Goi - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
I'd like to see reviews of Heroichi(HEC), aka Compucase, as well as Enlight, Topower and if possible Verudium PSUs. Also, the "ripple" measurements were only taken over a 30-60s duration, and only at full load. Other than the fact that what was measured isn't called "ripple" but actually the voltage fluctuation on the individual voltage rail, 30-60s sounds like a very short time window, and this should be measured both at idle and load conditions, since we all know that voltages tend to fluctuate when going from idle to load conditions and/or vice versa.Anonymous User - Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - link
How about Topower PSU's? I have seen a review elsewhere that says their 400W has similar performance to Enermax's (at a much lower price), but it was nowhere near as in-depth as your article.Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
Antec 330 true power's performance on 12v is not enough for a P4 or high end video card? Funny, I have both and haven't had a problem........Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
I personally thought the Antec True Power 330 was shining a little bit in this review. With 31.0 - 34.5 dBa noise, 26.5 - 33.8 C temp, on the lower end of memory errors, and a little tighter voltages than the average, it seems like it gives you the best combination of all categories. The only thing we're missing is some of the wattage testing. What do you guys think? And what about some of the other True Power product line - perhaps the 430 since 330 is at the lower end of PSU size that I would like to get for the power usage of any new computer (the True Control 550 is in a different product line than the True Power).Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
I personally thought the Antec True Power 330 was shining a little bit in this review. With 31.0 - 34.5 dBa noise, 26.5 - 33.8 C temp, on the lower end of memory errors, and a little tighter voltages than the average, it seems like it gives you the best combination of all categories. The only thing we're missing is some of the wattage testing. What do you guys think? And what about some of the other True Power product line - perhaps the 430 since 330 is at the lower end of PSU size that I would like to get for the power usage of any new computer (the True Control 550 is in a different product line than the True Power).Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
Seasonic Super Silencer 400 would be interesting to test later - see if their claims of efficient, cool and quiet are accurate.abr27440 - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
does it strike anyone else as odd that their memory if flopping bits left and right on their test? Dont know about you but i would prefer NO bit flips. :)Anonymous User - Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - link
A few clicks of my calculator indicate that only the Zalman ZM400A-APS and Fortron FSP400-60PFN did significantly better than average on the Interference Test, and only the TTGI/Superflower 420SS and TTGI/Superflower 520SS 4Fan did significantly worse.What were the results when different memory modules were tried, preferrably other makes of modules with other makes of chips? I'd like to know because the error rates indicated are roughly 10,000 to 1,000,000 times what memory manufacturers claim in actual systems.
Anonymous User - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
I'm a bit confused over what it takes to be a good power supply? You slammed the Antec TruePower 330 for its "modest" +12 volt rail (204 watts). Yet you give the Frotron FSP400 your editors award and it only pumps 180 watts on the +12 volt rail. I would think this is a very important part of the formula for your pick since so many systems by your readers have high demands on the +12 volt rail due to the popularity of high end video cards. Comments?Anonymous User - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
Another agreement with #15 and #18. If you want quiet, go for the silencer series. They are the same PS with different cooling.I discovered this when I found out what an outstanding company they are. My first PCP&C supply was a silencer 235, which is still running perfectly after 8 years. However, it wasn't enough juice for a P4 system. I wanted a new silencer with more power, but I balked at the price of the 400. I bought the turbocool 350 and boy was it loud! I called PCP&C and told them of my dilemna: what I really wanted was a silencer 350, which they didn't offer. NO PROBLEM! They put together a custom, full-warranty 350 silencer for me for $10 extra and shipped it right out.
Anonymous User - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
The page on the TruePower 330 says the power on the +12V rail is 'extremely modest'. Did you mean to say the "+5V rail", rather than the "+12V rail"?KF - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
The startling part of this review is that every power supply produced memory errors within six hours. It would seem every PC is unrealible and therefore worthless, regardless of the power supply. The cause could just as easily have been junk (noise, spikes, drop-outs, oscillations) on the power supply leads as electromagnetic interference. Or maybe it was a problem with the motherboard.Another interesting fact is that all the power supplies preformed insignificantly different under the loads used. Good news for people using cheap power supplies.
It would be interesting to know what the loads on the different voltage supplies are for real PCs by actual measurement. Not guess, not calculation from the labels. Monitor the currents while you do some of those stressful mobo benchmarks. How much on 12V, 5V, 3.3V? Without numbers, it is impossible to gauge what realistic power supply specs should be.
Anonymous User - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
Erm, don't know of any mobo using the +3.3 as source rail for an AMD cpu; perhaps you might look at the +5.0 as a candidate.What 'theory' is behind that "theoretical combined" value? Meaningless, except to show a lack of understanding of how a 'standard' PSU is constructed (the only PSU where this would be comprehensible are the non-standard design Truepowers, where, of course, the value was ommitted).
A multimeter (or mobo sensor) gives only vague 'averages' of the madly fluctuating voltages that occur as millions of transistors switch on and off on each clock cycle; these broad values are only useful as an indicator of capacity/quality by the amount of sag between idle and load. You need a trapping 'scope' to nail the maximum variations to see the quality of the regulation (also to actually measure ripple).
Generally speaking, about 20W are consumed by the control (-) voltages, so that the total actual capacity of the three power rails is less than the claimed power. I have never seen a manufacturer claim a wattage not rounded to 5W, and just as the individual +3.3 and +5 wattages can 'sum' to a value greater than the TCO, so can the TCO and +12 wattages 'sum' to a number greater than the combined +3.3 +5 and +12 total wattage capacity. All of this leads to the impression that some table values (+12 in particular) were 'calculated' under some 'theory', and not the manufacturers' specs.
Anonymous User - Monday, August 4, 2003 - link
/RANT ON HOW THE MODS MODERATE...IF you mods want to play the PC card, they play it fairly or don't play it at all.
Why is a thread locked, when a person mentions a "blackie is aggressive, or these "africa americans are always aggressive".
Yet when another individual makes a similar thread, but this time ranting on "hispanics are all crazy etc etc" it doesn't get locked on.
Or this one is my favorite, i just saw a thread where someone mentioned his "retarded neighbour" lit fire to a paper roll or something. Now i thought calling someone retarded is not Political correct.
Like i said if you mods want to play the Political correctness game, then play it fairly or stop choosing at your will which threads offend you personally.
I assume this message won't get thru, because its sent from an anonymous. oh well.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 3, 2003 - link
While this review is better than most, I feel that the conclusions are flawed. Firstly, there is more to choosing a good PSU than mere performance figures alone, at time of testing, might suggest. Component quality was not taken into account, and is one reason why some PSUs cost more than others.Quality components lead to longer life, higher reliability, and less drifting of specifications over time.
A PSU that appears to be good value for money may not be so good when it fails and takes out your attached devices in the process.
Also, what happened to testing voltage stability under dynamic load conditions. You may find that some units that appeared to show good stability and low ripple under constant load conditions, will perform miserably under dynamic loads, which would be more like the conditions encountered in real usage senarios. Some poor designs may very well cause stability issues under such conditions, which were not apparent in the test results shown.
Good report, but the results are inconclusive.
Anonymous User - Sunday, August 3, 2003 - link
Could you post the settings or source modification to get memtest86 to delay the verify step of the testing?Anonymous User - Sunday, August 3, 2003 - link
Which one is better for a dual ahtlon mp, 64 bits raid 5 (4 disk) and hungry video card???Anonymous User - Sunday, August 3, 2003 - link
OK, I'm confused. Which rail is important to an AMD builder/overclocker? AMD's Power Supply PDF indicates that the mobo's switching power supply uses the 12V rail. My observation of several power supply specs and this article imply that the 3.3V rail actually supplies power to an AMD CPU. This article was clear about P4s using 12V rail. Which is it for AMD?? Or does it depend on the mobo manufacturer and how they decide to build their multi-phase switching regulator?Anonymous User - Sunday, August 3, 2003 - link
Hello,I would like to mention a few pitfalls with your article that are confusing to people I have talked to... Please accept this as constructive criticism as I do not intend to degrade the article in any way.
At first glance, I didn't know what you ment by "Theoretical Combined" in the specification table. I am assuming you did not read this off the power supply's label, but calculated it by adding the 3.3v and 5v lines. While this number (or variation of it) is usefull, I believe that "theoretical" is not the term you are looking for. This is definately NOT the theoretical power output of the combined 3.3/5v rail as the label on the PSU clearly states the theoretical peak power of the combined rail. There is circuitry in the PSU that determines what this theoretical peak power output is for the combined rail, and it has nothing to do with your calculated "theoretical combined" numbers given in the table.
I would encourage you to change the name of that column of your table, and modify the presentation of the number. I recommend giving a power delta from the MFG's specified peak power on the combined rail and your calculated combined rail and call it the "defficiency of combined". For instance: in the case of the Sparkle PSU, the MFG's spec says the combined rail can output a maximum of 220W. Your calculated combined power is 242.4W. I would recommend making the "defficiency of combined" colum state 22.4W. This would give people an idea that there is a 22.4W defficiency that must be spread over the 3.3V and 5V rails in real world usage. This would also reduce the confusion of the incorrect term of "combined theoretical".
The real meaning of "combined theoretical" is really what the MFG's specifications say. The real meaning of "actual combined" is really what you should have measured using something that slowly loads the PSU and then take the highest power output just before overload. I would also recommend that doing this slow power draw, let the PSU stand in that state for a few minutes before increasing power draw again (so increase the draw in steps, with a time interval in between each step) so you can get actual sustained power output.
For a more complete test of each individual rail, blow out 4 different PSU's by maxing out each individual rail, and then trying to max out the combined rail (without maxing out either of the 3.3/5v rails). I know this would be an expensive test, so I would recommend at least doing the latter test if only one PSU is available for testing.Some MFG's are including circuitry to detect overload and are shutting themselves down accordingly while others are just blowing themselves out upon overload. If you frowned upon blown out PSU's because of overloading in your review, it might give PSU MFG's incentive to include this circuitry in future revisions.
I commend you on your memtest86 results. This is a very good idea, and I'm sure it took up much of your time. Thank you for these results.
Caveman2001 - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
I posted a comment in the forum "articles" section, but since you removed it, I'll go ahead and repost.Post #15 and #18 have the right info regarding PCP&C silencer PSU's.
I have 2 SILENCER 400W PSU's by them and wouldn't trade it in for anything. As your tests prove, PCP&C make extremely high quality, ripple superior PSU's.
If you overclock, you'll never have to worry about your PSU being the problem if its from them. I hope you guys will get a 400W silencer so you can test and hear the difference.
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
where can i get the modfied memtest86 så that i can try out the shielding test myself ?JPSJPS - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
Sorry about the double post! I have been getting timeouts recently here.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
Kristopher - You obviously have spent a *LOT* of time and effort on this article but your technical knowledge is insufficient to produce meaningful valid results. You have made so many glaring technical mistakes/errors (it would take pages to correct them) that everything you presented is suspect.On a positive note, I volunteer to proof/edit/correct any future articles that you propose if you desire. You have my email.
I (JPSJPS) posted a short, minimal critique of your article here but only covered a few major points:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=...
Regards, JPSJPS
JPSJPS - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
KristopherYou obviously have spent a *LOT* of time and effort on this article but your technical knowledge is insufficient to produce meaningful valid results. You have made so many glaring technical mistakes/errors (it would take pages to correct them) that everything you presented is suspect.
On a positive note, I volunteer to proof/edit/correct any future articles that you propose if you desire. You have my email.
I posted a short, minimal critique of your article here but only covered a few major points:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=...
Regards, John
Anonymous User - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
#11, yes P=IxV, but the power ratings in the table were obviously taken from manufacturers' data rather than actual measurements, which is why when any power rating for any of the positive voltages is divided by that voltage, the quotient exactly equals an integer. That would not be a problem if all manufacturers applied identical standards to their specifications, but many computer users have learned that this isn't the case.Anonymous User - Saturday, August 2, 2003 - link
Perhaps you could include a Q-Tec PSU in the next review? They retail here in Sweden at about 60% of the price of corresponding Enermax and other high quality units, so assuming they aren't totally lousy they're very cheap.Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
I agree with #15. Definitely take a look at the PC Power and Cooling 400w Silencer PSU. I own two of these units and they're very high quality with reasonably low noise.Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
Enlight power supplies are always being excluded from these PSU comparsions. I have a Enlight 360W PSU and it's very stable and very quiet. Test some Enlight PSUs!Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
I appreciated the comments concerning AMD users, but what I really need is some sort of guidance on AMD processor speed vs combined power or 3.3V rail current for upgrading older systems. Many older cases have limited power supplies and I'm trying to figure out the fastest processor I can install and still have reliable operation. Example: A 300 watt supply with 25A of 3.3V can only support up to a Athlon 1600+ on an ECS K7S5A Pro or a 350 watt with a combined power of 200W can support up to 2200+. Oh, and forget that old 250 watt power supply altogether. I need something like that... yeah, I know: your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law, no watts were endangered in the making of this article.....:-)Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
Next time you guys might want to check out the PC P&C Silencer 400. It's built just as heavily as the Turbo Cool but with a quieter fan.Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
Hey guys, im sure 1 or 2 of you resistorheads are an ee or will soon be one.. ripple and noise are only part of a good pwr supply.. we need the facts... how many watts do these power supplies really put out. how do they respond with a big load.. will they take an overload.. how well are they protected...thats what i wanna read aboutMIDIman - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
WOW - excellent review. I'm getting a zalman for my silent box.Nice to see you guys pumping out articles quickly again! Thanks!
idenyit - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
hey just wondering the allied A400ATX hows that compare with the B400ATX thats offered on newegg? any differences?Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
#10, doesnt P=IV? The Power and Voltage measurements were given.Anonymous User - Friday, August 1, 2003 - link
1. No amp measurements were listed, a serious deficiency because without them there is no way to know how well each PS met its amp specs, and many brands are known to fall short.2. No overload testing results for shorts, excessive power draw, excessive temperature.
3. Ripple is not just slow voltage variation also short term variation, such as for each AC cycle (60 Hz for the incoming AC, about 60,000 Hz for the output DC). I would have liked to see how the latter correlated with the memory noise test results.
4. I hope you were careful when you tested the PS heatsink temperatures because some heatsinks are live with high voltage.
Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
Well for the observent people who can differentiate between orange and blue, its not an issue. Also waiting a full second before clicking it reveals the location on both the bottom left and the mouse cursor. but i can see how it does get annoying.Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
yeah those in page advertisements are REALLY annoying...those have got to go. i never know when i'm going to link to another anandtech article or to an ad...i guess that's the point but it's still unacceptableAnonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
I would like to see the review include a Heroichi Electronic power supply, I hear they are very good but I haven't used one.Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
Some of your "In Page Advertising" links seem to be missing closing links tags or something so that it results in having a <link> in the middle or end of a sentence. Ex. "We had a lot of troubles with Vantec’s last power supply, the Stealth. We found an error in the production label<link>, which quickly led to a change in all the labeling on all Stealth power supplies."KristopherKubicki - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
#3 and #4, thank you for spotting these errors. I have updated and fixed them.Cheers,
Kristopher
Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
I hope the ripple for the PC Power & Cooling 3V wasn't 2.295.. Possibly 3.296??? 1 volt drop is unacceptable.Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
The REAL price of the pc power&coolinghttp://www.directron.com/pcpower.htmlAnonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
a little more content per page in some cases would be nice too......but good to see content on the site at all...and seemingly more regularly too...
Anonymous User - Thursday, July 31, 2003 - link
woah guys, the tables need some work...