This sounds like portability might be a nightmare. A graphics engine might run on Android Vulkan for instance, but not run on desktop Linux Vulkan (or vice versa) due to the different definitions of feature sets.
I think we have something similar now w/ OpenGL vs. GL ES. There is a dependence on the underlying hardware capability. Though, in practice, I think this difference has shown to not be a significant hurdle and, of course, some vendors like nvidia actually provide full OpenGL support on Android.
Well, considering that 100W video cards are normal on desktop and completely unheard of on the mobile, I certainly wouldn't expect to get the level of portability you're hinting at. Vulkan will define feature sets. If an application can degrade gracefully from one feature set to another, then it will be portable.
I don't see why. Feature levels is the same as supporting different GL / GLES versions.
If is like D3D12, using a feature level just mean that you don't need to check if things are supported.
FL12_1 give you ROVs for example (always), but you can still use ROVs with FL11_0, you just need to check if the option is available (could be, or could be not). In the end, is just convinience.
AFAIK : one api for all, platform will have to choose its feature sets, vulkan then will implement this defined feature sets and devs from specific platform will have to make program that will handle it and after testing it will be implemented into live systems.
As much crap as we (rightly) give Google it is a relief to see that their response to Apple's proprietary diversion is to stick with Khronos. It really would have sucked if they went off and did their open proprietary API as well.
Hopes Vulkan get widely used by game developers so that people can finally consider Linux as an alternative OS to windows. The only reason I still uses crappy windows (many people) is because of gaming needs.
I don't see why Vulkan will change anything. It is effectively OpenGL 5.0. We've had OpenGL for a long time, and outside Valve, it is rare for a dev company to use it. Vulkan will need to provide a significant improvement in either performance or ease of development over Direct 3D 12 or it will sit in the same well as it's predecessor.
The biggest difference is the rise in Mobile usage. Windows was the sole 800 lbs gorilla around, the only OS with a billion install base. Android is now the 2nd. Vulkan will standardize development between the 2 biggest platforms. Once all engines can target Vulkan and easily enable available features, it will be a breeze to port things back and forth between Windows and Android and will have the side effect of including smaller platforms.
Is not the same, Vulkan has more in common to D3D12 than to OpenGL. Sure, one use COM (D3D12) the other use C style functions (Vulkan), but still. If you design an engine around D3D12, porting to Vulkan is trivial, porting to OpenGL/D3D11 is not that easy.
Full compatibilty from Windows XP onwards! That could mean a huge loss to DirectX 12, which only works on Windows 10. Game developers really hate having DirectX versions which are locked in with Windows versions. It means they lose customers who don't want to upgrade. Also, you've got to consider many games are already running on mantle, which is just a modified version of Vulkan.
Mantle was the bridge to pass the river and get to the low level side faster. After passing that bridge, it didn't matter if that bridge would remain or blown up in pieces. Thankfully it found usage elsewhere, in Vulkan, so Mantle continues there, but you can live in denial forever. Don't worry. No Mantle in DX12, Vulkan, no AMD64 in Intel cpus either.
While Mantle was not used in many games because there was DX11 at the time it was then implemented in DX12 and now Vulkan rose from it and changed its direction to multi platform API and if it will be efficient enough AND if it will be popular on mobile OSes and especially Linux then Game Devs will code for it and then may come a time when Linux will be finaly an alternative to Windows in gaming world. So first please study or atleast read this post and then spread stupid comments.
I'd expect Apple to eventually adopt Vulkan but the timing wasn't right for El Capitan. I'd expect its successor next year to lay the ground work for Vulkan support in OS X.
The Apple logo is inconspicuously absent from the slides this time around. Previously they were on there. I think this is evidence that Apple is done with Khronos and is going their own way. They're taking the Microsoft approach of having a platform-unique API.
You are probably right. If they kept the logo on, I suppose we could (maybe) hope for Vulkan support in OSX 10.12. The only reason I can think of for them ditching Vulkan on OSX is to give developers even more of a reason to use Metal in conjunction with iOS. Given their past record with OpenGL though, I think it's safe to say I wont be targeting Apple devices for at least the next 5 years.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
28 Comments
Back to Article
Gigaplex - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
This sounds like portability might be a nightmare. A graphics engine might run on Android Vulkan for instance, but not run on desktop Linux Vulkan (or vice versa) due to the different definitions of feature sets.jwcalla - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
I think we have something similar now w/ OpenGL vs. GL ES. There is a dependence on the underlying hardware capability. Though, in practice, I think this difference has shown to not be a significant hurdle and, of course, some vendors like nvidia actually provide full OpenGL support on Android.bug77 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Well, considering that 100W video cards are normal on desktop and completely unheard of on the mobile, I certainly wouldn't expect to get the level of portability you're hinting at.Vulkan will define feature sets. If an application can degrade gracefully from one feature set to another, then it will be portable.
killeak - Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - link
I don't see why. Feature levels is the same as supporting different GL / GLES versions.If is like D3D12, using a feature level just mean that you don't need to check if things are supported.
FL12_1 give you ROVs for example (always), but you can still use ROVs with FL11_0, you just need to check if the option is available (could be, or could be not). In the end, is just convinience.
xidex - Tuesday, September 8, 2015 - link
AFAIK : one api for all, platform will have to choose its feature sets, vulkan then will implement this defined feature sets and devs from specific platform will have to make program that will handle it and after testing it will be implemented into live systems.jwcalla - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
As much crap as we (rightly) give Google it is a relief to see that their response to Apple's proprietary diversion is to stick with Khronos. It really would have sucked if they went off and did their open proprietary API as well.kuttan - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Hopes Vulkan get widely used by game developers so that people can finally consider Linux as an alternative OS to windows. The only reason I still uses crappy windows (many people) is because of gaming needs.UberHamburgler - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
I don't see why Vulkan will change anything. It is effectively OpenGL 5.0. We've had OpenGL for a long time, and outside Valve, it is rare for a dev company to use it. Vulkan will need to provide a significant improvement in either performance or ease of development over Direct 3D 12 or it will sit in the same well as it's predecessor.frenchy_2001 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
The biggest difference is the rise in Mobile usage.Windows was the sole 800 lbs gorilla around, the only OS with a billion install base. Android is now the 2nd. Vulkan will standardize development between the 2 biggest platforms.
Once all engines can target Vulkan and easily enable available features, it will be a breeze to port things back and forth between Windows and Android and will have the side effect of including smaller platforms.
killeak - Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - link
Is not the same, Vulkan has more in common to D3D12 than to OpenGL. Sure, one use COM (D3D12) the other use C style functions (Vulkan), but still. If you design an engine around D3D12, porting to Vulkan is trivial, porting to OpenGL/D3D11 is not that easy.medi03 - Friday, August 14, 2015 - link
Blizzard did use it for quite a while, though.My understanding was, that devs stopped using it, because it was, well, lacking.
lefty2 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Full compatibilty from Windows XP onwards!That could mean a huge loss to DirectX 12, which only works on Windows 10.
Game developers really hate having DirectX versions which are locked in with Windows versions. It means they lose customers who don't want to upgrade. Also, you've got to consider many games are already running on mantle, which is just a modified version of Vulkan.
Michael Bay - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Many games as in two or three?Mantle is a dead body in a river, and always was.
yannigr2 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Mantle was the bridge to pass the river and get to the low level side faster. After passing that bridge, it didn't matter if that bridge would remain or blown up in pieces. Thankfully it found usage elsewhere, in Vulkan, so Mantle continues there, but you can live in denial forever. Don't worry. No Mantle in DX12, Vulkan, no AMD64 in Intel cpus either.xidex - Tuesday, September 8, 2015 - link
While Mantle was not used in many games because there was DX11 at the time it was then implemented in DX12 and now Vulkan rose from it and changed its direction to multi platform API and if it will be efficient enough AND if it will be popular on mobile OSes and especially Linux then Game Devs will code for it and then may come a time when Linux will be finaly an alternative to Windows in gaming world.So first please study or atleast read this post and then spread stupid comments.
ant6n - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
So does that mean I can keep using Win7 as my last ever windows?Zingam - Thursday, August 13, 2015 - link
Whoever users Windows XP or something is waste of effort anyway!Kevin G - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
I'd expect Apple to eventually adopt Vulkan but the timing wasn't right for El Capitan. I'd expect its successor next year to lay the ground work for Vulkan support in OS X.jwcalla - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
The Apple logo is inconspicuously absent from the slides this time around. Previously they were on there. I think this is evidence that Apple is done with Khronos and is going their own way. They're taking the Microsoft approach of having a platform-unique API.DanWatkins - Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - link
You are probably right. If they kept the logo on, I suppose we could (maybe) hope for Vulkan support in OSX 10.12. The only reason I can think of for them ditching Vulkan on OSX is to give developers even more of a reason to use Metal in conjunction with iOS. Given their past record with OpenGL though, I think it's safe to say I wont be targeting Apple devices for at least the next 5 years.UberHamburgler - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
It's interesting to see that Continental is listed on the hardware partners list, aren't they a tire manufacturer?GTRagnarok - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
They saw Vulkan and made the obvious connection to vulcanization of rubber.SolarAxix - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
I am taking a guess that Continental is involved because of their AutoLinQ (automotive head unit) offering.Ryan Smith - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Bingo. In-vehicle infotainment is becoming a big business.AndrewJacksonZA - Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - link
@GTRagnarok: *chuckle*yannigr2 - Monday, August 10, 2015 - link
Imagination has shown another demo a few months ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdnRI0nquKc
Zingam - Thursday, August 13, 2015 - link
AMD invented Vulkan but they'll be the last to release a proper driver! Let's bet now!przemo_li - Saturday, August 15, 2015 - link
Vulkan driver software is not so hard to write. They will be able to reuse some of Mantle and some of OpenGL code explicitly.LunarGlass hired by Valve to write Intel Vulkan driver reused Intel's Linux shader compiler code!