They will keep Vega until it is on its deathbed and completely milked dry.. Four generations of APUs with Vega iGPUs and they are still beating the same dead horse. If Intel had not developed their Xe (i)GPUs AMD might have kept Vega alive for another 2 generations...
What APU outperforms those announced graphics? Even the R5 3400 provides useful gaming graphics, especially if you pair a monitor with display upscaling. Together that with 1440p gaming monitorcurrently costs less than an overpriced RX 580 or GTX 1060 mainstream dGPU.
The pre-built OEM prices for these are excellent. You can get a HP Pavilion Ryzen 5700G / 16GB RAM desktop at Office Depot for under $700.
8C Zen3 @ 4.6 GHz boost for $359 is absurdly good and outclasses Intel day & night. This is great to see from AMD; compete with yourself before Intel can even manage a sideways glance.
You could get the Pavilion for $550 until recently, which I think was a good price, but the price got bumped up to $670. At $670 it's IMO only mediocre value, at best. It's a limited system, with no real expandability (you won't be able to use a discrete GPU) and single channel RAM (which means that you'll immediately have to shell more money for another stick). The only thing that makes it somewhat reasonable value is that it includes Windows 10 in the price.
I would probably go with the 5700G over the 5800X.
One, because it's 65W, which means it likely consumes less power than my ancient Intel chip in practice, not more. I see no reason to increase my desktop's power consumption in this day and age.
But also because it's $90 less, and with not a lot lost. I don't care about the turbo boost difference; that's barely 2% of performance, and it's the least-efficient part of the performance curve. The L3 loss might be more than a 2% difference, but is probably not a great difference. And realistically, I don't have any need to be at the leading edge of the PCIe curve. My current GPU is a PCIe 3.0 card plugged into a PCIe 2.0 x8 slot, and it's been that way for over 4 years. It could be better, but I doubt I'd notice the difference.
So, pending retail availability, the 5700G + B450 would probably be my CPU/platform of choice if I needed to replace my desktop in early August.
Yeah. I've been thinking of buying an i5-11600K because integrated graphics are enough for me, but if I don't get around to building a new machine before August the 5600G seems like the obvious choice. It will probably be faster than the 11600K despite the reduced cache size, and will presumably included a cooler (unlike the 11600K) which means that it will cost less than the 11600K plus cooler unless Intel reduces its prices.
A bit shocked, since these are surely the same die as AMD's hard-to-keep-stocked high-end mobile. I guess the higher-wattage bins could have a decent number of leftover dies.
Where I am (Canada) even with a massive sale you are paying $475 USD for the 5800X. The 5700G at $359 would be HUGE (unless we also pay $450 USD in Canada for it, ugh). $115 off and you get integrated graphics. The only sad thing is I can't have it now, having to until August is a bummer. When does Alder Lake launch?
Good to hear that these APUs are going to be released in retail.
I wonder about the recommended price (what does SEP stand for, BTW?) Apparently AMD sees a negative value in adding a GPU; admittedly, these APUs have only half the L3 cache (probably quite relevant among gamers), PCIe3 instead of 4, a small disadvantage in boost clock, and the price is 9 months or so later, but I still find it strange. Maybe AMD will lower the SEP of the CPUs at the same time.
As long as AMD's marketing does not see a significant value in the GPU, I fear we will not see an APU with a big Infinity cache (to make up for the limited RAM bandwidth) in an APU.
"AMD sees a negative value in adding a GPU" is a bad analysis. The 5700G has less performance and less features like you listed. You will also see that 5800X price coming down soon. Micro Center has been selling it a $400, Newegg/Amazon have had it for around $430.
Your dream APU is a tough sell right now but it will come eventually. Of course, a big honking APU that far outclasses the 5700G already exists in the PS5 and Xbox Series X|S.
> Of course, a big honking APU that far outclasses the 5700G > already exists in the PS5 and Xbox Series X|S.
AMD can use infinity cache to surpass Vega8, for sure. But it's still going to come in below their dGPU range, because Infinity cache is only a partial solution. The bandwidth that consoles have is so far beyond what an APU can touch, not to mention their TDP is at the outer limits for a CPU.
> AMD is also announcing today a few additions to the Ryzen Pro stack > ... the 65 W models are identical to the non-Pro counterparts.
Except no ECC capability! If you want ECC in a DIY machine, AMD makes you buy their chiplet-based processors and then rely on the motherboard vendor for validation and support.
This is the worst part about their "Pro" market segmentation. Why can't they either enable ECC in non-Pro APUs or just sell us the Pro versions even in OEM packaging and at a markup? Is that *really* a sticking point for OEMs? Or is AMD just being lazy?
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest. I just want a semi-usable iGPU in the event I'm troubleshooting my computer and need to remove the graphics card to confirm that's not the issue.
My recent Ryzen 5800x build was the first pure CPU build in like 15+ years. I don't expect the iGPU to set the world on fire performance wise but it's a nice thing to have in an emergency or when troubleshooting a machine. This was by FAR the biggest "Con" I had against going for an AMD build this past winter, as I thought back to the dozens, possibly hundreds of times I've removed a GPU while isolating a problem on a computer I'm building/fixing for myself, family, friends, etc. But I bit the bullet and it's been smooth sailing so far *knocks on wood*.
I was hoping that AMD would release a 5800x with an iGPU but it's clear they're sticking with the mobile CPU with a SoC that's severely limited in 1) PCIe version, running 3.0 2) PCIe lanes, with AFAIK zero coming from the SoC's chipset, as well as less L3, less TDP/Boost, etc.
Is it not possible to take the laptop CPU and let it connect to the chipset in an x570 mobo to get extra lanes (obviously not here, but in general)? I'm confused why AMD is offering retail "desktop" CPU's that must be used with a laptop's SoC chipset, other than it's just cheaper and easier for AMD to take a pallet full of laptop SoC's and put them in individual boxes. Surely they can have the infinity fabric link that would connect to the rest of the SoC instead connect to a normal motherboard?
> I just want a semi-usable iGPU in the event I'm troubleshooting my computer > and need to remove the graphics card to confirm that's not the issue.
Why not just get a super-cheap GPU that you can swap in, for such purposes? I had a HD 5450 for that, which I replaced with a RX 550, a couple years ago. Anything <= 75 W is probably a good option.
The way to know is to check the supported CPU list for 500-series server/workstation motherboards that support ECC RAM. Right now, they say the only APUs you can use with ECC RAM are the Pro-series.
So, just watch for them to update their docs for the new APUs.
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ksec - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I am guessing they will keep Vega until ROCm support RDNA2?ET - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
They will keep Vega until the next gen APUs. ROCm has nothing to do with this. ROCm APU support is spotty at best anyway.mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
AMD: Vega, ride or die!Santoval - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
They will keep Vega until it is on its deathbed and completely milked dry.. Four generations of APUs with Vega iGPUs and they are still beating the same dead horse. If Intel had not developed their Xe (i)GPUs AMD might have kept Vega alive for another 2 generations...mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
It is surprising they've kept it so long, but I think you're too pessimistic.RobATiOyP - Wednesday, June 16, 2021 - link
What APU outperforms those announced graphics?Even the R5 3400 provides useful gaming graphics, especially if you pair a monitor with display upscaling. Together that with 1440p gaming monitorcurrently costs less than an overpriced RX 580 or GTX 1060 mainstream dGPU.
mode_13h - Saturday, June 19, 2021 - link
> What APU outperforms those announced graphics?Tiger Lake U-series G7 models, with 96 EUs.
ikjadoon - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
The pre-built OEM prices for these are excellent. You can get a HP Pavilion Ryzen 5700G / 16GB RAM desktop at Office Depot for under $700.8C Zen3 @ 4.6 GHz boost for $359 is absurdly good and outclasses Intel day & night. This is great to see from AMD; compete with yourself before Intel can even manage a sideways glance.
Link for the curious: https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5448005/HP-...
ET - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
You could get the Pavilion for $550 until recently, which I think was a good price, but the price got bumped up to $670. At $670 it's IMO only mediocre value, at best. It's a limited system, with no real expandability (you won't be able to use a discrete GPU) and single channel RAM (which means that you'll immediately have to shell more money for another stick). The only thing that makes it somewhat reasonable value is that it includes Windows 10 in the price.Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Prices are up across the board. What was a good deal half a year ago doesn't mean much today.mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I do not want a pre-built. I want to pick my own mobo, with the features *I* want, and I want to choose my own case and use a *good* PSU.Arnulf - Wednesday, June 2, 2021 - link
Nothing is stopping you unless you specifically want 5xxx series APU with full warranty. Wait until August and you'll be able to do all of the above.mode_13h - Wednesday, June 2, 2021 - link
What's stopping me is that AMD doesn't sell Ryzen Pro APUs to consumers, and they *disable* ECC support in the non-Pro APUs.IBM760XL - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I would probably go with the 5700G over the 5800X.One, because it's 65W, which means it likely consumes less power than my ancient Intel chip in practice, not more. I see no reason to increase my desktop's power consumption in this day and age.
But also because it's $90 less, and with not a lot lost. I don't care about the turbo boost difference; that's barely 2% of performance, and it's the least-efficient part of the performance curve. The L3 loss might be more than a 2% difference, but is probably not a great difference. And realistically, I don't have any need to be at the leading edge of the PCIe curve. My current GPU is a PCIe 3.0 card plugged into a PCIe 2.0 x8 slot, and it's been that way for over 4 years. It could be better, but I doubt I'd notice the difference.
So, pending retail availability, the 5700G + B450 would probably be my CPU/platform of choice if I needed to replace my desktop in early August.
lmcd - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I hope you mean B550, as I doubt the graphics series will be highly tested.mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> I see no reason to increase my desktop's power consumption in this day and age.The TDP is just a ceiling. PCIe 4.0 adds a little, as does the I/O die. Still, your power usage is most;y going to be determined by your workload.
Also, the biggest way to save some juice is to stick with integrated graphics. If you'd do that, then the G would be fully-justified.
jerrylzy - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
5600G seems very attractive compared to 5600X and i5-11600K.lmcd - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I'd still pick the 11600 for a SMB, but for personal use, there's no reason to pick the Intel unless board prices really deter you.KAlmquist - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
Yeah. I've been thinking of buying an i5-11600K because integrated graphics are enough for me, but if I don't get around to building a new machine before August the 5600G seems like the obvious choice. It will probably be faster than the 11600K despite the reduced cache size, and will presumably included a cooler (unlike the 11600K) which means that it will cost less than the 11600K plus cooler unless Intel reduces its prices.stanleyipkiss - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I'm looking at a 5700GE model right now to pair with an Alpine passive cooler.lmcd - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
A bit shocked, since these are surely the same die as AMD's hard-to-keep-stocked high-end mobile. I guess the higher-wattage bins could have a decent number of leftover dies.Alistair - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Where I am (Canada) even with a massive sale you are paying $475 USD for the 5800X. The 5700G at $359 would be HUGE (unless we also pay $450 USD in Canada for it, ugh). $115 off and you get integrated graphics. The only sad thing is I can't have it now, having to until August is a bummer. When does Alder Lake launch?ET - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Alder Lake is expected to launch in November. But that's not official, and Intel does have the tendency to postpone releases.AntonErtl - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Good to hear that these APUs are going to be released in retail.I wonder about the recommended price (what does SEP stand for, BTW?) Apparently AMD sees a negative value in adding a GPU; admittedly, these APUs have only half the L3 cache (probably quite relevant among gamers), PCIe3 instead of 4, a small disadvantage in boost clock, and the price is 9 months or so later, but I still find it strange. Maybe AMD will lower the SEP of the CPUs at the same time.
As long as AMD's marketing does not see a significant value in the GPU, I fear we will not see an APU with a big Infinity cache (to make up for the limited RAM bandwidth) in an APU.
nandnandnand - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
Suggested eTailer Price. No, not a typo."AMD sees a negative value in adding a GPU" is a bad analysis. The 5700G has less performance and less features like you listed. You will also see that 5800X price coming down soon. Micro Center has been selling it a $400, Newegg/Amazon have had it for around $430.
Your dream APU is a tough sell right now but it will come eventually. Of course, a big honking APU that far outclasses the 5700G already exists in the PS5 and Xbox Series X|S.
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> Of course, a big honking APU that far outclasses the 5700G> already exists in the PS5 and Xbox Series X|S.
AMD can use infinity cache to surpass Vega8, for sure. But it's still going to come in below their dGPU range, because Infinity cache is only a partial solution. The bandwidth that consoles have is so far beyond what an APU can touch, not to mention their TDP is at the outer limits for a CPU.
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> which would you rather have - 100-200 MHz extra CPU frequency,> double the L3 cache, and PCIe 4.0, or would you rather have integrated graphics?
This ignores the 40 W higher TDP, which translates to more boosting, more of the time.
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> AMD is also announcing today a few additions to the Ryzen Pro stack> ... the 65 W models are identical to the non-Pro counterparts.
Except no ECC capability! If you want ECC in a DIY machine, AMD makes you buy their chiplet-based processors and then rely on the motherboard vendor for validation and support.
This is the worst part about their "Pro" market segmentation. Why can't they either enable ECC in non-Pro APUs or just sell us the Pro versions even in OEM packaging and at a markup? Is that *really* a sticking point for OEMs? Or is AMD just being lazy?
Kakti - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I'm pretty disappointed to be honest. I just want a semi-usable iGPU in the event I'm troubleshooting my computer and need to remove the graphics card to confirm that's not the issue.My recent Ryzen 5800x build was the first pure CPU build in like 15+ years. I don't expect the iGPU to set the world on fire performance wise but it's a nice thing to have in an emergency or when troubleshooting a machine. This was by FAR the biggest "Con" I had against going for an AMD build this past winter, as I thought back to the dozens, possibly hundreds of times I've removed a GPU while isolating a problem on a computer I'm building/fixing for myself, family, friends, etc. But I bit the bullet and it's been smooth sailing so far *knocks on wood*.
I was hoping that AMD would release a 5800x with an iGPU but it's clear they're sticking with the mobile CPU with a SoC that's severely limited in 1) PCIe version, running 3.0 2) PCIe lanes, with AFAIK zero coming from the SoC's chipset, as well as less L3, less TDP/Boost, etc.
Is it not possible to take the laptop CPU and let it connect to the chipset in an x570 mobo to get extra lanes (obviously not here, but in general)? I'm confused why AMD is offering retail "desktop" CPU's that must be used with a laptop's SoC chipset, other than it's just cheaper and easier for AMD to take a pallet full of laptop SoC's and put them in individual boxes. Surely they can have the infinity fabric link that would connect to the rest of the SoC instead connect to a normal motherboard?
mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
> I just want a semi-usable iGPU in the event I'm troubleshooting my computer> and need to remove the graphics card to confirm that's not the issue.
Why not just get a super-cheap GPU that you can swap in, for such purposes? I had a HD 5450 for that, which I replaced with a RX 550, a couple years ago. Anything <= 75 W is probably a good option.
nandnandnand - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
It's rumored that Zen 4 CPUs will include some kind of RDNA 2 iGPU.Rembrandt APUs will bump up the PCIe support and other features.
evilpaul666 - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
No ECC support, I assume?mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
The way to know is to check the supported CPU list for 500-series server/workstation motherboards that support ECC RAM. Right now, they say the only APUs you can use with ECC RAM are the Pro-series.So, just watch for them to update their docs for the new APUs.