Interesting. How big is the whole component setup ? It looks kinda huge, especially if the current 4G setup is all integrated in the SoC. Is that an extra 30% of motherboard ?
So they're likely to have an updated Snapdragon to support that? Seems weird if in H2 2019 the discrete solution has a wider range of support but the flagship SD didn't have it. Also, did Intel release anything yet on 5G?
To me, it makes a lot of sense at this time of the product cycle. By having it separate they improve the yield for their flagship SoCs (no chance of a defect in a portion that isn't there); and if you don't need 5G you don't have to pay for it. And if they do, Qualcomm gets to sell another chip!
Obviously an integrated solution is better if you *have* to have a certain feature, but it's not going to become a requirement until it's fully rolled-out. 4G LTE is really very good, and it looks like it'll continue to be the best available solution in the majority of most places for at least a few years. Even when it's not, it'll probably be plenty fast once all the rich kids with high data plans switched over to 5G. :-D
Would be interesting to see if QCOM ships a Snapdragon 855 variant without modem to go along with it. Seems like a waste when the integrated modem on 855 probably uses a third of the area.
I'm not certain, but I think it may have just to do with the added complexity of needing extra components to serve two frequency ranges needed by FDD. For mmWave TDD requires much less complexity.
More importantly for the X55 is the added support for FDD for sub-6GHz 5G NR.
2x2 Per Unit and single side. The 4x4 you get from LTE are from All side, not applicable on mmWave since you will only have one side receiving the directional mmWave Signal.
With 2g and 3g phaseouts in progress or completed over increasing amounts of the globe, I'm wondering how long until we start seeing next generation modems that don't support anything older than LTE.
Unlikely to happen in the next 3 - 4 years. Different Nations have different plan of sunsetting Pre LTE tech, some decide to keep 2G and get rid of 3G. Some decide to keep 3G while getting rid of 2G. Until LTE is truly rolled out Globally, there is going to be some long tails in Pre LTE tech.
I also think the Die space required to support those are minimal. It might not be worth the hassle to think about dropping them now.
As interesting as it may be to see improved modem designs that offer 5G speeds, I question the value of the additional performance when TELCOs limit data transfer to small quantities, charge high prices for overages, or reduce transfer rates significantly after hitting a cap even with an unlimited plan.
Additional Speed and Additional Capacity, which provide incentive for Telcos to lower their price to compete. That is of course assuming no growth of Data Usage. But generally speaking the faster you upgrade your phone with faster speed and Wireless tech, the faster telcos can upgrade their infrastructure. It is one reason why Telcos has a Love and Hate relationship with Apple.
Data plans are not keeping up with bandwidth increases despite the incentives of higher speed modems. There are still lots of phone plans that are capped at single digit GBs per month out there and various plans that are represented as unlimited are bandwidth capped after a relatively small amount of information is dragged downstream. Those numbers have increased a little, they're nowhere close to catching up with successive modem advancements.
That is because there are more user. Generally speaking every Telecos in every nations, within their Spectrum and Infrastructure has their optimal capacity. As strange as it might seem there are still many using 3G, moving up to 4G casques additional strain on the network, which then requires refarming. Once the majority of the Data are living on LTE, and reaches a plateau of users, the advancement of Smartphone tech will improve the economics of Carrier. The problem is Smartphone Replacement are now in 4 years cycle, which means unless the Market can Sell enough 5G ( That is why they are hyping it ), the improvement for Telecos, whether it is capacity, speed, business will be slow.
What is the point, beyond marketing, of 24-40 GHz for mobile phones? They don't penetrate anything. Would they work even in fog or rain? At 10mm wavelength, 20cm of tissue (which is mostly water) is enough to reduce signal strength by the factor of ~1000 AFAIR.
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shabby - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
It seems the "you're holding it wrong" phrase will really come to life with these 5g phones.Yojimbo - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Why? It says it has an adaptive tuner specifically to avoid that issue.StormyParis - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Interesting. How big is the whole component setup ? It looks kinda huge, especially if the current 4G setup is all integrated in the SoC. Is that an extra 30% of motherboard ?Teckk - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
The integrated modem in the SD 855 supports all these features already on-chip?Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
The S855 modem doesn't support 5G NR.Teckk - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
So they're likely to have an updated Snapdragon to support that? Seems weird if in H2 2019 the discrete solution has a wider range of support but the flagship SD didn't have it.Also, did Intel release anything yet on 5G?
GreenReaper - Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - link
To me, it makes a lot of sense at this time of the product cycle. By having it separate they improve the yield for their flagship SoCs (no chance of a defect in a portion that isn't there); and if you don't need 5G you don't have to pay for it. And if they do, Qualcomm gets to sell another chip!Obviously an integrated solution is better if you *have* to have a certain feature, but it's not going to become a requirement until it's fully rolled-out. 4G LTE is really very good, and it looks like it'll continue to be the best available solution in the majority of most places for at least a few years. Even when it's not, it'll probably be plenty fast once all the rich kids with high data plans switched over to 5G. :-D
gregounech - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Would be interesting to see if QCOM ships a Snapdragon 855 variant without modem to go along with it. Seems like a waste when the integrated modem on 855 probably uses a third of the area.masimilianzo - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Will mmWave bands be TDD-only? Why so?Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
I'm not certain, but I think it may have just to do with the added complexity of needing extra components to serve two frequency ranges needed by FDD. For mmWave TDD requires much less complexity.More importantly for the X55 is the added support for FDD for sub-6GHz 5G NR.
masimilianzo - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Makes sense thanks.Notable that QTM525 antennas are 2x2 MIMO, rather than 4x4.
But double antennas==even more volume occupied.
ksec - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
2x2 Per Unit and single side. The 4x4 you get from LTE are from All side, not applicable on mmWave since you will only have one side receiving the directional mmWave Signal.DanNeely - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
With 2g and 3g phaseouts in progress or completed over increasing amounts of the globe, I'm wondering how long until we start seeing next generation modems that don't support anything older than LTE.ksec - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Unlikely to happen in the next 3 - 4 years. Different Nations have different plan of sunsetting Pre LTE tech, some decide to keep 2G and get rid of 3G. Some decide to keep 3G while getting rid of 2G. Until LTE is truly rolled out Globally, there is going to be some long tails in Pre LTE tech.I also think the Die space required to support those are minimal. It might not be worth the hassle to think about dropping them now.
PeachNCream - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
As interesting as it may be to see improved modem designs that offer 5G speeds, I question the value of the additional performance when TELCOs limit data transfer to small quantities, charge high prices for overages, or reduce transfer rates significantly after hitting a cap even with an unlimited plan.ksec - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Additional Speed and Additional Capacity, which provide incentive for Telcos to lower their price to compete. That is of course assuming no growth of Data Usage. But generally speaking the faster you upgrade your phone with faster speed and Wireless tech, the faster telcos can upgrade their infrastructure. It is one reason why Telcos has a Love and Hate relationship with Apple.PeachNCream - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Data plans are not keeping up with bandwidth increases despite the incentives of higher speed modems. There are still lots of phone plans that are capped at single digit GBs per month out there and various plans that are represented as unlimited are bandwidth capped after a relatively small amount of information is dragged downstream. Those numbers have increased a little, they're nowhere close to catching up with successive modem advancements.ksec - Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - link
That is because there are more user. Generally speaking every Telecos in every nations, within their Spectrum and Infrastructure has their optimal capacity. As strange as it might seem there are still many using 3G, moving up to 4G casques additional strain on the network, which then requires refarming. Once the majority of the Data are living on LTE, and reaches a plateau of users, the advancement of Smartphone tech will improve the economics of Carrier. The problem is Smartphone Replacement are now in 4 years cycle, which means unless the Market can Sell enough 5G ( That is why they are hyping it ), the improvement for Telecos, whether it is capacity, speed, business will be slow.ksec - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
Meanwhile Intel doesn't even have a Spec page for Intel XMM 8160. I just wish Apple gave me a choice, I would pay $50 more for a Qualcomm iPhone.peevee - Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - link
What is the point, beyond marketing, of 24-40 GHz for mobile phones? They don't penetrate anything. Would they work even in fog or rain? At 10mm wavelength, 20cm of tissue (which is mostly water) is enough to reduce signal strength by the factor of ~1000 AFAIR.