There are only so many ways to design a convertible notebook, but I dislike the sorts that flip the screen around to rest on the backside of the system. It leaves the keyboard exposed to potential damage. I could see someone sliding said computer in tablet mode during which a key or two are somehow snagged and pulled loose. Those little plastic scissor mechanisms aren't very durable.
I rarely use my Dell XPS 15 2in1 or Dell XPS 13 2in1 that way - usually only on bed - but I can see useful that way when using it like a tablet
What they need is to make a mechanism where screen has option where it slip on front of keyboard and also slip like a notebook for caring around. This possible could be down with hinge in the middle of back when use as tablet.
XPS 13 2in1 and XPS 15 2in1 13 2in1 was release last year and 15 2in1 was release last March or April. XPS 12 is very old model and not related to this discussion.
I also have Samsung TabPro S which is actually tablet and has external keyboard - it has old y chip and much slower. but it like low end model of Microsoft Surface.
After owning one for 5 years, I agree, wholeheartedly. I have a Dell Inspiron 15 7000 (7558, specific model) for 5 years now, and I have always been extra nervous using it in tablet mode because of the keyboard.
I like the design like the Surface or the old Dell XPS 10, where all the computing components are behind the screen. It allows a detachable keyboard to also have an extra battery for longer life. Then again, a lot of people want their systems so thin that such designs don't make much headway. I prefer my laptop have a little thickness to it, so I don't accidentally break it in half. The super thin laptops make me too nervous, and there are WAY too many sacrifices to have one that thin, like single channel memory and being unupgradable.
well? When I buy in... the CNC machined aluminum will presumably assure that my PEN15 remains hard in all use case scenarios! I think I will like a shiny hard PEN15.
The problem with 3:2 is that it's great for a lot - but it is downright unusable for virtualization. VMWare Workstation, Virtual Box, and Hyper-V (made by MS) all do not even remotely support 3:2. I haven't tried any others (what others???). I don't understand why HyperV doesn't support MSs own flagship halo device...
Type-C is far superior to having a god awful, useless Mini Display Port. Why did MS make such a backwards decision as this? Who uses that? Thunderbolt 3 is far superior. I can't fathom why they refuse to add this port. You're going to need a dongle for just about any use of MiniDP, so you might as well have a useful port like Thunderbolt... (I don't even really care about the Type-A, but I can see needing one)
miniDP peed in your cereal this morning? I totally agree that the lack of TB3 on the new Surface is a glaring omission (and I will be looking for TB3 on my next system) but realistically for the majority of users who just want to use an external display and don't care about eGPUs or ultra-high-performance external storage, they just buy a $10 cable on Amazon with one end that matches their PC and the other end that matches their display and that's the last they think about it. You don't really need dongles for video outputs anymore just a cable with heterogeneous connectors. mDP is def on it's way out but you make it sound like MS is forcing people to use CGA over a DB9 port or something! So vengeful towards that lil socket!
For smaller displays, sure. For larger displays wider aspect ratios are better. Now there are limits, but wider aspect ratios allow for better running of programs side-by-side and allow more screen real estate for toolbars etc.
4:2 and 3:2 workspaces are great (except for video work), but once you add in all the UI then they end up not being those aspect ratios. 16:10 and 16:9, on the other hand, end up giving you squarer actual workspaces. With the option to have more rectangular ones if you want.
Dell 15 2in1 has 2 TB3 and 2 USB C on other side, of course TB3 is 100% downward compatible with USB C which can all be connected with old fashion USB A
Why is Intel (and therefore all of their buyers) stuck on LPDDR3? This was a problem 2-3 generations ago. (this is why we are capped at 16gb of RAM on most laptops... and the ones that are 32+gb are using non LP RAM).
Intel is not stuck on DDR3 and if look close at specs the 13in version is on DDR4 - so this is error in specs or Samsung decide to use DDR3 for some reasons on 15.
Still on Intel Arc - cpu indicate either DDR4 or DDR3LP - so your statement needs be more specific and stated Intel mobile chips does not support DDR4LP - possibly Whiskey lake supports - or something even better especially ones base on Sunny Cove;
I have followed Samsung notebooks closely and have their lightest model ever, the notebook 9 13.3 2017 (under 1.8 pounds) I don't like what they have done this year, as least as a business user....
1. the current notebook 9 pen is the lighter 2-in-1 in the market probably the only one that is still kind of usable with one hand. They put a bigger battery in exchange for more weight so it's a trade-off. But the big advantage of samsung notebook is that they charge with everything (5v, QC, PD), so all powerbank and quick charge phone chargers will work at their max speed. So I have never felt the need for more battery life since any phone charger or small power bank will do.
2. TB3 is the overhyped port everybody wants but very few actually use.. Business users don't use eGPUs and USB C dock is plenty good.
3. USB A is the port every business user needs and there is always a time when someone gives you a USB pen drive at a meeting etc. and you don't have the adapter with you...
4. 1080p is still the sweet spot for 13.3... especially if you use software that does not work well with high DPI (many business users do..) 1440p would be nice on the 15in but other than the thinkpad nobody does it, because like 3.2, it's too expensive. I guess even 4k is cheaper since a lot of OEMs use it... 4k is only good for marketing in a business laptop, 2k would be great hardly anyone use it... (like with monitors, I was looking for a 24in 2k monitor and they are almost non existing and the cheapest option I found was a 4k one!)
I do hope their are not going to the the same on their non touch laptops... Also, Samsung laptop last year were great products (largest battery ever on a 13.3) but did 0 advertising, 0 units sent to reviewers so you won't find reviews contrary to LG, people hardly know they exist... The small advertising budget went all to the notebook 9 pen...
I probably agree with video part of what you said. But USB C / TB3 part is different story - as a user of several notebooks that use USB C and also TB3
1. USB A is two big for thin notebooks and tablets 2. Most Tablets and Phone are started to used newer USB C - even Apple is switching from lightning connector.
As for Thunderport 3 (TB3)
1. It is superset of USB C - TB3 does everything USBC does and more 2.I try many USB C docks and struggle to find one that works with both - best to go with manufacture of tablet or notebook. 3. TB3 is more for business side - you forgot to mention higher end disk storage - primary used in digital artist industry.
Just because TB3 is not made major impact in desktop industry which is only a small part of computer industry today but is what this site mostly deals with does not mean it bad thing. Like it or not industry is moving mobile and USB A is on it way out.
I been using computers for along time - I remember when first USB came out - it was similar - rare to find and adapters for mouse and keyboard devices out there.
"1. USB A is two big for thin notebooks and tablets" Not True. The samsung notebook 9 is impossibly thin (ipad air thin) and still packs 2 USB A. No point in making any laptop thinner. Light is good, thin is pointless after a certain level. By the way the notebook 9 is the lightest of any laptop.
2. Most Tablets and Phone are started to used newer USB C - even Apple is switching from lightning connector. Love UBS C in my notebook 9, everybody should implement it the same, not as some crappy implementations that don't let you charge or only charge via PD. Just leave a usb A too. As for Thunderport 3 (TB3)
"1. It is superset of USB C - TB3 does everything USBC does and more" I know "2.I try many USB C docks and struggle to find one that works with both - best to go with manufacture of tablet or notebook." What's the point you are trying to make here? "3. TB3 is more for business side - you forgot to mention higher end disk storage - primary used in digital artist industry." TB3 disks is still a niche segment. Having said that I am not against TB3. I just said that 90% of people don't need it now. If it's there great, but if I had to chose between USB C + A and USB C only with TB3 I would take the first any day. If you can have everything even better. Having said that I am not buying anything that has not USB C AND (for laptops) USB A.
"Just because TB3 is not made major impact in desktop industry which is only a small part of computer industry today but is what this site mostly deals with does not mean it bad thing. Like it or not industry is moving mobile and USB A is on it way out." Not for the next decade at least in the business world... Like it or not things are moving very slowly... And who said TB3 is bad by the way? It's just not an excuse to remove USB A
Personally I don't understand why they 16:10 ratios and I glad to get away form old Tube style of 3:2 - I wider screen is more productive - but I not sure that we will ever have an ultrawide laptop unless it can fold out.
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PeachNCream - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
There are only so many ways to design a convertible notebook, but I dislike the sorts that flip the screen around to rest on the backside of the system. It leaves the keyboard exposed to potential damage. I could see someone sliding said computer in tablet mode during which a key or two are somehow snagged and pulled loose. Those little plastic scissor mechanisms aren't very durable.HStewart - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
I rarely use my Dell XPS 15 2in1 or Dell XPS 13 2in1 that way - usually only on bed - but I can see useful that way when using it like a tabletWhat they need is to make a mechanism where screen has option where it slip on front of keyboard and also slip like a notebook for caring around. This possible could be down with hinge in the middle of back when use as tablet.
Inteli - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
What, you mean like the Dell XPS 12? That thing that was already tried and presumably cancelled for being too complicated?HStewart - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
XPS 13 2in1 and XPS 15 2in1 13 2in1 was release last year and 15 2in1 was release last March or April. XPS 12 is very old model and not related to this discussion.jospoortvliet - Thursday, December 20, 2018 - link
Well it did what you propose and didn’t work so it sounds relevant to me ;-)wr3zzz - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
I have the HP Spectre Folio and really like how the screen slides into tablet mode instead of folding backward.HStewart - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
I also have Samsung TabPro S which is actually tablet and has external keyboard - it has old y chip and much slower. but it like low end model of Microsoft Surface.dgingeri - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
After owning one for 5 years, I agree, wholeheartedly. I have a Dell Inspiron 15 7000 (7558, specific model) for 5 years now, and I have always been extra nervous using it in tablet mode because of the keyboard.I like the design like the Surface or the old Dell XPS 10, where all the computing components are behind the screen. It allows a detachable keyboard to also have an extra battery for longer life. Then again, a lot of people want their systems so thin that such designs don't make much headway. I prefer my laptop have a little thickness to it, so I don't accidentally break it in half. The super thin laptops make me too nervous, and there are WAY too many sacrifices to have one that thin, like single channel memory and being unupgradable.
HStewart - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
It looks like Samsung is expanding it Windows notebook lines - when Pen computers using from the Samsung Galaxy Note 9 line - that looks like same penI would also expect they also have Galaxy Book 3 with Whiskey Lake CPU's or Sunny Cove based and also using same Pen
s.yu - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
That's a much bigger pen, like about twice the diameter and 33% longer.Ubiqutious - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
Another model that won't come to Australia ? :(torchedguitar - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
Wow, it's pretty far from April Fool's day -- did nobody raise an eyebrow that they're shipping a product in the U.S. named "PEN 15"?wrkingclass_hero - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
Enjoy the 1080Pness of the PEN15Manch - Wednesday, December 19, 2018 - link
It will depend on how they package the PEN 15theuglyman0war - Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - link
well?When I buy in...
the CNC machined aluminum will presumably assure that my PEN15 remains hard in all use case scenarios!
I think I will like a shiny hard PEN15.
sorten - Friday, December 14, 2018 - link
2 x TB3 + USB-C?! I think I'm in love. Microsoft, are you paying attention?numberlen - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Worse aspect ratio, resolution, and no USB Type A. What won't I give for this with Microsoft's panel.descendency - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
The problem with 3:2 is that it's great for a lot - but it is downright unusable for virtualization. VMWare Workstation, Virtual Box, and Hyper-V (made by MS) all do not even remotely support 3:2. I haven't tried any others (what others???). I don't understand why HyperV doesn't support MSs own flagship halo device...Type-C is far superior to having a god awful, useless Mini Display Port. Why did MS make such a backwards decision as this? Who uses that? Thunderbolt 3 is far superior. I can't fathom why they refuse to add this port. You're going to need a dongle for just about any use of MiniDP, so you might as well have a useful port like Thunderbolt... (I don't even really care about the Type-A, but I can see needing one)
KateH - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
miniDP peed in your cereal this morning? I totally agree that the lack of TB3 on the new Surface is a glaring omission (and I will be looking for TB3 on my next system) but realistically for the majority of users who just want to use an external display and don't care about eGPUs or ultra-high-performance external storage, they just buy a $10 cable on Amazon with one end that matches their PC and the other end that matches their display and that's the last they think about it. You don't really need dongles for video outputs anymore just a cable with heterogeneous connectors. mDP is def on it's way out but you make it sound like MS is forcing people to use CGA over a DB9 port or something! So vengeful towards that lil socket!GreenReaper - Monday, December 17, 2018 - link
I use miniDP. Admittedly, via a HDMI converter, ending up as DVI (it's an old monitor), but it's used.It would be nice to have more ports that do everything, but there is complexity and cost to that.
HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
I would agree on the resolution, so old school now a daysBut USB Type A just makes the modern notebooks fat - can be solved adapters and docks
Tams80 - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
For smaller displays, sure. For larger displays wider aspect ratios are better. Now there are limits, but wider aspect ratios allow for better running of programs side-by-side and allow more screen real estate for toolbars etc.4:2 and 3:2 workspaces are great (except for video work), but once you add in all the UI then they end up not being those aspect ratios. 16:10 and 16:9, on the other hand, end up giving you squarer actual workspaces. With the option to have more rectangular ones if you want.
HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Dell 15 2in1 has 2 TB3 and 2 USB C on other side, of course TB3 is 100% downward compatible with USB C which can all be connected with old fashion USB Adescendency - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Why is Intel (and therefore all of their buyers) stuck on LPDDR3? This was a problem 2-3 generations ago. (this is why we are capped at 16gb of RAM on most laptops... and the ones that are 32+gb are using non LP RAM).HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Intel is not stuck on DDR3 and if look close at specs the 13in version is on DDR4 - so this is error in specs or Samsung decide to use DDR3 for some reasons on 15.descendency - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
It's not the LP variant. The LPDDR4 support does not exist on any intel chips.HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Still on Intel Arc - cpu indicate either DDR4 or DDR3LP - so your statement needs be more specific and stated Intel mobile chips does not support DDR4LP - possibly Whiskey lake supports - or something even better especially ones base on Sunny Cove;HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
LPDDR4 memory appears to be base on manufacture of product- here is Atom based product that supports ithttp://portwell.com/products/detail.php?CUSTCHAR1=...
My XPS 15 2in1 which I am typing this on has LPDDR4 memory - so this is not Intel issue but Samsung issue.
HStewart - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
Also new generation XPS 15 but not XPS 13 - so since the 15in is newer CPU it has LPDDR4https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-1...
On Samsung use older cpu.
sharath.naik - Saturday, December 15, 2018 - link
LG gram is 2 lb has a 73WH battery.digiguy - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
And Samsung notebook 9 is even slightly lighter and has a 75wh battery... but either is a 2-in-1 as this inscreases the weight...digiguy - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
I have followed Samsung notebooks closely and have their lightest model ever, the notebook 9 13.3 2017 (under 1.8 pounds)I don't like what they have done this year, as least as a business user....
1. the current notebook 9 pen is the lighter 2-in-1 in the market probably the only one that is still kind of usable with one hand. They put a bigger battery in exchange for more weight so it's a trade-off. But the big advantage of samsung notebook is that they charge with everything (5v, QC, PD), so all powerbank and quick charge phone chargers will work at their max speed. So I have never felt the need for more battery life since any phone charger or small power bank will do.
2. TB3 is the overhyped port everybody wants but very few actually use..
Business users don't use eGPUs and USB C dock is plenty good.
3. USB A is the port every business user needs and there is always a time when someone gives you a USB pen drive at a meeting etc. and you don't have the adapter with you...
4. 1080p is still the sweet spot for 13.3... especially if you use software that does not work well with high DPI (many business users do..)
1440p would be nice on the 15in but other than the thinkpad nobody does it, because like 3.2, it's too expensive. I guess even 4k is cheaper since a lot of OEMs use it... 4k is only good for marketing in a business laptop, 2k would be great hardly anyone use it... (like with monitors, I was looking for a 24in 2k monitor and they are almost non existing and the cheapest option I found was a 4k one!)
I do hope their are not going to the the same on their non touch laptops...
Also, Samsung laptop last year were great products (largest battery ever on a 13.3) but did 0 advertising, 0 units sent to reviewers so you won't find reviews contrary to LG, people hardly know they exist... The small advertising budget went all to the notebook 9 pen...
HStewart - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
I probably agree with video part of what you said. But USB C / TB3 part is different story - as a user of several notebooks that use USB C and also TB31. USB A is two big for thin notebooks and tablets
2. Most Tablets and Phone are started to used newer USB C - even Apple is switching from lightning connector.
As for Thunderport 3 (TB3)
1. It is superset of USB C - TB3 does everything USBC does and more
2.I try many USB C docks and struggle to find one that works with both - best to go with manufacture of tablet or notebook.
3. TB3 is more for business side - you forgot to mention higher end disk storage - primary used in digital artist industry.
Just because TB3 is not made major impact in desktop industry which is only a small part of computer industry today but is what this site mostly deals with does not mean it bad thing. Like it or not industry is moving mobile and USB A is on it way out.
I been using computers for along time - I remember when first USB came out - it was similar - rare to find and adapters for mouse and keyboard devices out there.
digiguy - Monday, December 17, 2018 - link
"1. USB A is two big for thin notebooks and tablets"Not True. The samsung notebook 9 is impossibly thin (ipad air thin) and still packs 2 USB A. No point in making any laptop thinner. Light is good, thin is pointless after a certain level. By the way the notebook 9 is the lightest of any laptop.
2. Most Tablets and Phone are started to used newer USB C - even Apple is switching from lightning connector.
Love UBS C in my notebook 9, everybody should implement it the same, not as some crappy implementations that don't let you charge or only charge via PD. Just leave a usb A too.
As for Thunderport 3 (TB3)
"1. It is superset of USB C - TB3 does everything USBC does and more"
I know
"2.I try many USB C docks and struggle to find one that works with both - best to go with manufacture of tablet or notebook."
What's the point you are trying to make here?
"3. TB3 is more for business side - you forgot to mention higher end disk storage - primary used in digital artist industry."
TB3 disks is still a niche segment. Having said that I am not against TB3. I just said that 90% of people don't need it now. If it's there great, but if I had to chose between USB C + A and USB C only with TB3 I would take the first any day. If you can have everything even better. Having said that I am not buying anything that has not USB C AND (for laptops) USB A.
"Just because TB3 is not made major impact in desktop industry which is only a small part of computer industry today but is what this site mostly deals with does not mean it bad thing. Like it or not industry is moving mobile and USB A is on it way out."
Not for the next decade at least in the business world... Like it or not things are moving very slowly... And who said TB3 is bad by the way? It's just not an excuse to remove USB A
Lolimaster - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
Still insist on useless 16:9 aspect ratio for laptops, it's fine for TV's not for productivity16:10 and 3:2 are the best options.
Lolimaster - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
Still insist on useless 16:9 aspect ratio for laptops, it's fine for TV's not for productivity16:10 and 3:2 are the best options.
HStewart - Sunday, December 16, 2018 - link
Personally I don't understand why they 16:10 ratios and I glad to get away form old Tube style of 3:2 - I wider screen is more productive - but I not sure that we will ever have an ultrawide laptop unless it can fold out.Gunbuster - Wednesday, December 19, 2018 - link
PEN15 /Facepalm