That's partly my fault. Gavin tested this board back in late January, wrote it up over Feb, and it's been in my to-edit list for a few weeks. The two BIOS revisions were 1/29 and 3/19, mostly relating to new processor support and some more memory tweaks, as well as Win7 support.
Those are kind of BS answers for a lack of effort to review the products when they launched over a year ago. This was MSI's Launch flagship motherboard, they only now (ish) gave you a board to review? I doubt that, considering it's price, and all of the review samples that AMD gave out were with the Crosshair, MSI would have been handing these out like candy hoping reviews would get people to get this over the RoG.
Above you noted that the review was basically finished 4 months ago. Back when people would have actively purchasing X370 boards. While I am sure that the mobo companies will sell this next to the new boards, without steep discounts (ones that a Premium board like this are unlikely to get to make them less interesting than a mid level X470 board) the default purchasing habits will be the new series. Topping it off people buying this late into the cycle want to know more about quirks, long term issues, Bios update history, support level type stuff to make sure they are getting the most stable platform on which to build their computer around. Stuff that is missing because this isn't a long term review, it's a normal review near the end of its natural cycle.
I know the real answer and while disappointing you shouldn't be ashamed of. We want the best technical information and the best approach. You give us that, and the real answer being you were backed up with all of the hardware launches last year that you prioritized products that mattered to the larger portion of your readership I think most of us understand. Otherwise considering it was pretty much a year on the dot that you started reviewing products ancillary to the Ryzen release. That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload.
"That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload. "
Let me be 100% crystal clear here: AnandTech's editorial calendar is set by me. Purch has taken an extremely light hand to AnandTech overall, and has never dictated what content we should run.
It does a massive disservice to Ian, Gavin, and my other editors when anyone accuses, insinuates, or otherwise implies that they are acting with ulterior, unethical motives. These are some of the hardest working people I know - Ian in particular - and it was my choice alone in determining our editorial priorities. Which yes, meant having Ian work on some other things (like digging into the CTS story) ahead of editing motherboard reviews.
I want to point out I wasn't actually suggesting that was the case. I am sure it's all about hands available and deciding what products will get the most re-viewership (for example more I7's than Ryzen 7's sold means more people would be interested in Z270/370 reviews than X370). But it's better to actually say that than try to play it off like all of a sudden you got 10 AM4 300 series boards in a couple months before the refresh and that there is this demand for reviews of the product. This isn't the usually week or two later with more in depth information, this is nearing the end of a products viable marketable sales (but as noted not the end of sales).
But dancing around the actual reason for the delay and considering the poorness of the timing (almost exactly a year after launch). It causes people to generate conspiracy theories. Without knowing better that would be the one that would come to my head. Why almost exactly a year, what is the significance of the year? It almost seems like a time limited exclusivity deal like games some times have. It would then spiral from there, why? Well Purch and Intel have a relationship about very high level advertising through regular media deal going on.
Sure some fans aren't going to like being told their product doesn't generate enough views. But obviously a choice was already made that was going that their readership wasn't worth the ROI in man hours. So it's not like that guy not wanting to read a review after being told that is going impact you that much since again his market was to small for the effort anyways. But in the end most reasonable people are going to welcome more transparency there rather than looking for another reason to call Anandtech a schill site. I don't think it is. Never have.
Just think about that in the future. It's one of the things that was great about Anandtech back in the day and will keep the site a worthy one coming back. Don't pull the punches on reviews, don't dance around choices made. Just be as straightforward and technical as possible. Doing otherwise invites critism and over scrutinization.
if you think you can do better then anandtech does now.. then how about you start your own review site, and do them yourself based on what you feel your readers will want at any given time.
the staff here have stated over and over again, they decide what gets reviewed, when and when it is posted on here, should x370 and AM4 related stuff have been reviewed months ago.. yes.. but we dont know their schedule, work load, or whats in the queue to be reviewed or posted. i remember a post a while back that said they have a new reviewer for amd related product and are getting him up to speed, that could of been part of the delay... either way. i keep coming back here cause of the quality of these reviews and write ups, and how deep the guys and anandtech have always gone into something on the tech side.. and i will keep coming back for that.. even if a lot of it.. i dont understand cause its above my pay grade :-) this is one of the best places to go for reviews and the tech inside a lot of the products on here
That is a terrible response to a little bit of critcism. If you don't want to read my criticism then don't read the comments or go back to reading PC mag or the newspaper (doesn't feel good to be told what to do because you disagree does it). I have been reading Anandtech for 20+ years now and they are by far the best site for reviews, when they review stuff. I am not criticizing them for the quality of review, I am not even really criticizing them for the time of the review though it may seem like it. All I have said is that it would behoove them to be more transparent on oddities like this series of reviews, instead of giving a bunch non-straight responses like they did at the end of page one. That it brings on and promotes speculation, some of which Ryan specifically wants to avoid because even when unfounded it's something he has been actively trying to avoid since Anandtech was sold.
I want to applaud Ryan and Ian's and the rest of the teams works over the year and while it's still not the same without Anand. It is still better than I ever could have thought it would be post losing him. But this is one point that I feel Anand would have gotten right. He would be as straight a shooter as possible even if it ruffled a few feathers.
Topweasel: "All I have said is that it would behoove them to be more transparent".
You actually said this:
Topweasel: "That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload."
Ian, the problem with the Nikos PowerPAK PK616BA MOSFETs are that this board is a lot more expensive than other boards that offers significantly better Mosfets - such as the X370 Taichi which is even cheaper.
I mean, had this board been priced more aggressively, this would not have been an issue.
Hint: MSI - I own 2 Intel XPower boards on mainstream and on X99, an MSI X99A Godlike, I have bought 4 MSI Lightning GPUs, 2 290X Lightning and 2x 1080Ti Lightnings - but you will lose customers like me if you keep doing releasing sub-par products.
I have no issues paying a premium for a flagship - but the flagship must be worthy of a flagship title.
I considered this board when building a new rig back in December. Compared to the Intel versions of the Titanium, this is a mid-range board with flagship pricing and aesthetics.
The problem with the Nokis Power Pak is still occurring and I am not getting any solutions related to this, I have also checked on the one website where some sort of support is available.
The problem with the Nokis Power Pak is still occurring and I am not getting any solutions related to this, I have also checked on the one https://appletechsupportnumber.net/ipod-support/ where some sort of support is available.
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T1beriu - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
BIOS Build Date: 09/19/2017.WOW.
T1beriu - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
I see that MSI released 2 BIOS versions since then.Ian Cutress - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
That's partly my fault. Gavin tested this board back in late January, wrote it up over Feb, and it's been in my to-edit list for a few weeks. The two BIOS revisions were 1/29 and 3/19, mostly relating to new processor support and some more memory tweaks, as well as Win7 support.ManuelDiego - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
Plus we are like 1 week away of X470, right? Not sure i see the point of releasing this board now, TBH.Ian Cutress - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
Bottom of first page, questions answered.ManuelDiego - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
I see, thanks for the addendum, Dr. Cutress.Topweasel - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
Those are kind of BS answers for a lack of effort to review the products when they launched over a year ago. This was MSI's Launch flagship motherboard, they only now (ish) gave you a board to review? I doubt that, considering it's price, and all of the review samples that AMD gave out were with the Crosshair, MSI would have been handing these out like candy hoping reviews would get people to get this over the RoG.Above you noted that the review was basically finished 4 months ago. Back when people would have actively purchasing X370 boards. While I am sure that the mobo companies will sell this next to the new boards, without steep discounts (ones that a Premium board like this are unlikely to get to make them less interesting than a mid level X470 board) the default purchasing habits will be the new series. Topping it off people buying this late into the cycle want to know more about quirks, long term issues, Bios update history, support level type stuff to make sure they are getting the most stable platform on which to build their computer around. Stuff that is missing because this isn't a long term review, it's a normal review near the end of its natural cycle.
I know the real answer and while disappointing you shouldn't be ashamed of. We want the best technical information and the best approach. You give us that, and the real answer being you were backed up with all of the hardware launches last year that you prioritized products that mattered to the larger portion of your readership I think most of us understand. Otherwise considering it was pretty much a year on the dot that you started reviewing products ancillary to the Ryzen release. That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload.
Ryan Smith - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
"That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload. "Let me be 100% crystal clear here: AnandTech's editorial calendar is set by me. Purch has taken an extremely light hand to AnandTech overall, and has never dictated what content we should run.
It does a massive disservice to Ian, Gavin, and my other editors when anyone accuses, insinuates, or otherwise implies that they are acting with ulterior, unethical motives. These are some of the hardest working people I know - Ian in particular - and it was my choice alone in determining our editorial priorities. Which yes, meant having Ian work on some other things (like digging into the CTS story) ahead of editing motherboard reviews.
Topweasel - Friday, April 13, 2018 - link
I want to point out I wasn't actually suggesting that was the case. I am sure it's all about hands available and deciding what products will get the most re-viewership (for example more I7's than Ryzen 7's sold means more people would be interested in Z270/370 reviews than X370). But it's better to actually say that than try to play it off like all of a sudden you got 10 AM4 300 series boards in a couple months before the refresh and that there is this demand for reviews of the product. This isn't the usually week or two later with more in depth information, this is nearing the end of a products viable marketable sales (but as noted not the end of sales).But dancing around the actual reason for the delay and considering the poorness of the timing (almost exactly a year after launch). It causes people to generate conspiracy theories. Without knowing better that would be the one that would come to my head. Why almost exactly a year, what is the significance of the year? It almost seems like a time limited exclusivity deal like games some times have. It would then spiral from there, why? Well Purch and Intel have a relationship about very high level advertising through regular media deal going on.
Sure some fans aren't going to like being told their product doesn't generate enough views. But obviously a choice was already made that was going that their readership wasn't worth the ROI in man hours. So it's not like that guy not wanting to read a review after being told that is going impact you that much since again his market was to small for the effort anyways. But in the end most reasonable people are going to welcome more transparency there rather than looking for another reason to call Anandtech a schill site. I don't think it is. Never have.
Just think about that in the future. It's one of the things that was great about Anandtech back in the day and will keep the site a worthy one coming back. Don't pull the punches on reviews, don't dance around choices made. Just be as straightforward and technical as possible. Doing otherwise invites critism and over scrutinization.
Qasar - Saturday, April 14, 2018 - link
Topweasel here is a better idea....if you think you can do better then anandtech does now.. then how about you start your own review site, and do them yourself based on what you feel your readers will want at any given time.
the staff here have stated over and over again, they decide what gets reviewed, when and when it is posted on here, should x370 and AM4 related stuff have been reviewed months ago.. yes.. but we dont know their schedule, work load, or whats in the queue to be reviewed or posted. i remember a post a while back that said they have a new reviewer for amd related product and are getting him up to speed, that could of been part of the delay... either way. i keep coming back here cause of the quality of these reviews and write ups, and how deep the guys and anandtech have always gone into something on the tech side.. and i will keep coming back for that.. even if a lot of it.. i dont understand cause its above my pay grade :-) this is one of the best places to go for reviews and the tech inside a lot of the products on here
Topweasel - Saturday, April 14, 2018 - link
Qasar,That is a terrible response to a little bit of critcism. If you don't want to read my criticism then don't read the comments or go back to reading PC mag or the newspaper (doesn't feel good to be told what to do because you disagree does it). I have been reading Anandtech for 20+ years now and they are by far the best site for reviews, when they review stuff. I am not criticizing them for the quality of review, I am not even really criticizing them for the time of the review though it may seem like it. All I have said is that it would behoove them to be more transparent on oddities like this series of reviews, instead of giving a bunch non-straight responses like they did at the end of page one. That it brings on and promotes speculation, some of which Ryan specifically wants to avoid because even when unfounded it's something he has been actively trying to avoid since Anandtech was sold.
I want to applaud Ryan and Ian's and the rest of the teams works over the year and while it's still not the same without Anand. It is still better than I ever could have thought it would be post losing him. But this is one point that I feel Anand would have gotten right. He would be as straight a shooter as possible even if it ruffled a few feathers.
Reflex - Sunday, April 15, 2018 - link
I suppose you could apply for a full refund...philehidiot - Monday, April 16, 2018 - link
I DEMAND my refund!stevekgoodwin - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Topweasel: "All I have said is that it would behoove them to be more transparent".You actually said this:
Topweasel: "That the secrecy behind reviewing products this late into the cycle has more to do with Purch's relationship with Intel and not down to workload."
I'm off to listen to Weasel Stomping Day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76IGLi6jWI
CrazyElf - Saturday, April 14, 2018 - link
Ian, the problem with the Nikos PowerPAK PK616BA MOSFETs are that this board is a lot more expensive than other boards that offers significantly better Mosfets - such as the X370 Taichi which is even cheaper.I mean, had this board been priced more aggressively, this would not have been an issue.
Hint: MSI - I own 2 Intel XPower boards on mainstream and on X99, an MSI X99A Godlike, I have bought 4 MSI Lightning GPUs, 2 290X Lightning and 2x 1080Ti Lightnings - but you will lose customers like me if you keep doing releasing sub-par products.
I have no issues paying a premium for a flagship - but the flagship must be worthy of a flagship title.
Koenig168 - Monday, April 16, 2018 - link
I considered this board when building a new rig back in December. Compared to the Intel versions of the Titanium, this is a mid-range board with flagship pricing and aesthetics.johnparker1 - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
The problem with the Nokis Power Pak is still occurring and I am not getting any solutions related to this, I have also checked on the one website where some sort of support is available.johnparker1 - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
The problem with the Nokis Power Pak is still occurring and I am not getting any solutions related to this, I have also checked on the one https://appletechsupportnumber.net/ipod-support/ where some sort of support is available.MarkJohn - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
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