I'd be especially interested, as there's an Intel and and AMD version of the same laptop, to see how they compare in a real apples to apples comparison.
Microsoft would literally be severely IQ limited if the AMD Ryzen Mobile doesn't get integrated into Surface Tablet.
Apple made Intel and AMD work together to have the necessary graphics power in its portables. Microsoft not going for AMD Ryzen Mobile would be just ignorant about both : its buyers and the rest of the industry.
The issue is that you can't just swap chips and the board is highly customized for that specific tablet. So having Core and Ryzen Mobile designs DOES have some drawbacks. I think it's worth it and I still want to see it as an option... but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're stupid if they don't. I would understand the decision to stick with a single custom board rather than designing and manufacturer two completely different custom boards.
While I'm not over the moon for this particular laptop (too heavy for my tastes, and no 2700U?), I'm really, really excited to see this hitting the market. Now for some premium 13-14" convertible designs. I'd like a ThinkPad one. Listening, Lenovo? ThinkPad Yoga 370 with this APU, or X1 Yoga even. I would pay for it. Gladly.
How dare you besmirch Valantar's good name. He would never stoop so low as to steal a Ryzen Mobile device... at most he might steal and fence a couple of Intel laptops to finance it. ;)
Agreed, she always seems to be leading from the front. As soon as I saw the picture I instantly realized Lisa Su had just bought a Ryzen Mobile device from a Best Buy... before reading anything. Gave me a good chuckle. Good PR.
He is the major douche that messed up the tablet market by flooding it with low quality, low performing CPUs sold through illegal price dumping campaigns (basically given away for free).
This convinced the majority of the market that tablets are useless, under-performing, productivity-lacking pieces of hardware no matter if the OS is Windows or Android.
So there was an initial wave of buying because of the novelty effect and the affordable prices, but then people were faced with the reality that the devices were useless for anything else than media consumption (and not even that in most cases) .
Now the tablet market is crashing becase people are unwilling to buy tablet anymore AND because there is no compelling powerful platform like AMD Mullings was.
It is incredible that AMD Mullings, despite being 1.5x to 2x faster than Intel Atom, did not even get a SINGLE design win.
This is what happens when an organised crime organization like Intel spends 4 billion USD per year to keep AMD out of the tablet market.
All this happened under the watchful eye of Brian.
16GB/512 SSD or 1TB SSD look like an excellent laptop. If only they would not overprice the upgrades that much. And extra 4GB of RAM for $206, REALLY? It is $20 in retail!
Sure, the Skull Canyon NUC beat its 3DMark CPU scores by 45%, but that's at 3x the TDP and not in a thin laptop. And those graphics scores! For a 15W chip! Hot damn.
For a better comparison, here are links to Geekbench 4 CPU and OpenCL results submitted for a pair of HP ENVY x360's one has an AMD Ryzen 5 2500U and the other has an Intel Core i7-8550U.
MX150 is exactly the competition for these new Ryzen APUs, I mean it's a freakin' GT 1030 inside, if the Vega with 8 CUs can't beat it, it's a total failure.
Vega is actually a lot like Ryzen: more efficient at lower clocks.
I've tuned my 64 down to 145w mining Ethereum at ~40.5MH/s. [email protected], 1100MHz HBM. Now cut that down to 8CUs (64/8=8) and -152MHz. It's better than most give it credit for, but was pushed past its efficiency range to better compete with the 1080.
You do realize that the MX150 has a TDP of 23 watts right? An Intel i7-8550U plus MX150 would have a combined TDP of 38 watts versus an APU with a TDP of 15 watts.
All else remaining equal the APU would offer: Better battery life, lower "skin temp", and less noise. Also, price. The i7-8550u equipped model with an MX150 seem to be priced roughly $150 more. That's not zero, and neither model (when equipped with an SSD) is "budget" in the traditional sense.
I wasn't talking about MX150 HP Envy vs Vega HP Envy, they obviously don't match price wise. But you're delusional if you think we won't get cheaper laptops offers with the MX150 in the future.
AMD can live with lower profit margins than Intel, thus it can sell APUs cheaper. Note the fact that Intel+mx150 means extra price of dGPU core, plus GDDR5 memory, plus more complicated cooling, compared with just the APU price. So AMD with this APU can easily take over the segment of 920-940mx price-wise. Maybe even compete at higher price level of mx150, although that would need a less efficient 65W RR part with all 11CUs enabled.
Nice try... you even mentioned the MX150 and said "if it can't beat it, it's a total failure" and then when someone pointed out the massive TDP difference you said "that doesn't matter, they compete in the same budget-oriented market". Keep backpedaling. The APU is cheaper, uses less power, etc. ilt24's correction was right - the more expensive and hungrier i7 + MX150 is not a fair comparison.
With that being said, if an OEM released a 25W configured 2700U that would be a lot more interesting for me, even though it would STILL have lower TDP.
Oh, and pricewise Nvidia can't go much lower so I hope you're banking on an i7 pricedrop from Intel. Otherwise start looking at i5 and i3 "U" models to pair with that MX150.
It's pretty close, given that it's only got 15W to work with. The R7 has 25% more CUs and almost 20% more clockspeed, so combined 48% more performance - enough to beat the 'm150.
The problem with geekbench is you don't know if people are gaming the benches. For instance, i78550U ranges from 4200 to 4900. (The one you picked was the lowest): https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?q=i7+8...
Even if you're right and most buyers are business users with no "need" for a faster GPU, more software than ever leans on the GPU for performance benefits. Look at the work Firefox has been doing with Quantum, for example. GPU compute in action.
Also, I know a lot of nerds that buy a device for "work" with light gaming as a side benefit. OEMs even cram dGPUs in a lot of "pro" models, so they must sell enough to justify it. That doesn't even count the professional creative-types who have needed a little GPU horsepower for many years.
Really look forward to the review! Does the stylus have 2,000+ levels of pressure sensitivity, I.e. Usable by an amateur graphic artist? I hope they send one with the sample and you give some anacdotal commentary.
Happy to hear about the review unit coming in! I bought one online back on Nov 10, but it will be a while before it arrives (with 8+8 memory config & an SSD option).
Yes, I'd also be interested in something like that. At least 2c4t with 8-10CUs in a platform similar to surface pro2 (able to cool ~33W continuous load), just with 12-13" screen would allow to make nearly full use of Ryzen mobile U series capabilities for light gaming and still be very portable and inexpensive.
Does the TDP include the IGP? A GTX 1050m by itself is maybe 40-50W, but 'only' about 2x performance of an MX150. So, two Ryzen 2700U IGPs would about equal a GTX 1050m performance with an improved TDP. And 8 CPU cores / 16 threads to boot! Might AMD be so kind to include SMP to enable this? To scale, 4x 2700U's in a desktop would about give a GTX 1060 performance, which is quite a lot of 'GPU' (about $300 worth, cost-wise), about a PS4 pro level of GPU performance, and a good deal better on the CPU side with 16 cores / 32 threads. All in a 60W TDP?! For perspective, 160W TDP would be hard to believe for that performance capability and still very compelling, even for a small, passive HTPC design. Likewise, it would be scalable to any size server. Non-gamers should want great GPU performance at least as much, if not even more-so, considering CAD and many design workflows.
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LiviuTM - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Finally!PeachNCream - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Its great to hear that there's a review unit on the way. I'm really looking forward to seeing what a Ryzen APU can actually do at 15W.Valantar - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Seconded. I want a classic AnandTech in-depth analysis, covering every conceivable aspect of the chip. Heck, I'd probably pay to read that article.ajp_anton - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
I'd be especially interested, as there's an Intel and and AMD version of the same laptop, to see how they compare in a real apples to apples comparison.Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
I really hope they send them a dual-channel config to review. LOL...Ian Cutress - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
This model comes ONLY in dual channel configurations... ;)Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
How exactly do you explain the 12GB configuration?Assimilator87 - Friday, November 17, 2017 - link
Bruv, the specs chart:"12 GB (4+8) DDR4-2400"
I would like a confirmation on the HDMI version though.
Samus - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Thirded, REVIEW THIS.peevee - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Web tests vs Intel version on the new Firefox 57 would be nice.Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
I'd like to see Ryzen Mobile end up as an option for Surface Pro or a similar tablet.IGTrading - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Microsoft would literally be severely IQ limited if the AMD Ryzen Mobile doesn't get integrated into Surface Tablet.Apple made Intel and AMD work together to have the necessary graphics power in its portables. Microsoft not going for AMD Ryzen Mobile would be just ignorant about both : its buyers and the rest of the industry.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
The issue is that you can't just swap chips and the board is highly customized for that specific tablet. So having Core and Ryzen Mobile designs DOES have some drawbacks. I think it's worth it and I still want to see it as an option... but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're stupid if they don't. I would understand the decision to stick with a single custom board rather than designing and manufacturer two completely different custom boards.Valantar - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
While I'm not over the moon for this particular laptop (too heavy for my tastes, and no 2700U?), I'm really, really excited to see this hitting the market. Now for some premium 13-14" convertible designs. I'd like a ThinkPad one. Listening, Lenovo? ThinkPad Yoga 370 with this APU, or X1 Yoga even. I would pay for it. Gladly.Wardrop - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
You wouldn't steal it this time?Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
How dare you besmirch Valantar's good name. He would never stoop so low as to steal a Ryzen Mobile device... at most he might steal and fence a couple of Intel laptops to finance it. ;)Ninhalem - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
I think it's great that Lisa Su is so recognizable. I hardly know who the CEO for Intel is or what they look like.As for the computer, I haven't bought a Windows laptop in a very long time. I'm very keen on getting one of these.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Agreed, she always seems to be leading from the front. As soon as I saw the picture I instantly realized Lisa Su had just bought a Ryzen Mobile device from a Best Buy... before reading anything. Gave me a good chuckle. Good PR.IGTrading - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
We trust nobody would like to know Brian.He is the major douche that messed up the tablet market by flooding it with low quality, low performing CPUs sold through illegal price dumping campaigns (basically given away for free).
This convinced the majority of the market that tablets are useless, under-performing, productivity-lacking pieces of hardware no matter if the OS is Windows or Android.
So there was an initial wave of buying because of the novelty effect and the affordable prices, but then people were faced with the reality that the devices were useless for anything else than media consumption (and not even that in most cases) .
Now the tablet market is crashing becase people are unwilling to buy tablet anymore AND because there is no compelling powerful platform like AMD Mullings was.
It is incredible that AMD Mullings, despite being 1.5x to 2x faster than Intel Atom, did not even get a SINGLE design win.
This is what happens when an organised crime organization like Intel spends 4 billion USD per year to keep AMD out of the tablet market.
All this happened under the watchful eye of Brian.
So yes, who would like to know that guy ?!
For further reference about Intel's organized crime-like practices, I think this is a very good start : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osSMJRyxG0k
peevee - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
16GB/512 SSD or 1TB SSD look like an excellent laptop. If only they would not overprice the upgrades that much. And extra 4GB of RAM for $206, REALLY? It is $20 in retail!0ldman79 - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Agreed.1TB drive for $270?
Ouch.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Welcome to OEM markups, especially on mobile device configs. Not exactly a new thing... heh.peevee - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
You mean for $580, right? And that excludes the 1TB HDD which is $130 itself. So they want $710 effectively.lefty2 - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
You can see some preliminary benchmarks here: http://apusilicon.com/hp-envy-x360-w-ryzen-first-i...Valantar - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
That. Looks. Amazing.Sure, the Skull Canyon NUC beat its 3DMark CPU scores by 45%, but that's at 3x the TDP and not in a thin laptop. And those graphics scores! For a 15W chip! Hot damn.
ilt24 - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
For a better comparison, here are links to Geekbench 4 CPU and OpenCL results submitted for a pair of HP ENVY x360's one has an AMD Ryzen 5 2500U and the other has an Intel Core i7-8550U.Geekbench 4 CPU
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/4861055
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/4862100
OpenCL
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/1374608
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/1377564
ilt24 - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
oops...just noticed that the Intel version of the x360 has a Nvidia MX150 GPU, so not a fair comparison.vladx - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
MX150 is exactly the competition for these new Ryzen APUs, I mean it's a freakin' GT 1030 inside, if the Vega with 8 CUs can't beat it, it's a total failure.sonicmerlin - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Anything that requires a limited power envelope in relation to Vega is automatically a failure. The GPU is just terrible.JasonMZW20 - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
Vega is actually a lot like Ryzen: more efficient at lower clocks.I've tuned my 64 down to 145w mining Ethereum at ~40.5MH/s. [email protected], 1100MHz HBM. Now cut that down to 8CUs (64/8=8) and -152MHz. It's better than most give it credit for, but was pushed past its efficiency range to better compete with the 1080.
SquarePeg - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
You do realize that the MX150 has a TDP of 23 watts right? An Intel i7-8550U plus MX150 would have a combined TDP of 38 watts versus an APU with a TDP of 15 watts.vladx - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
That doesn't matter, they compete in the same budget-oriented market.ABR - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
If the AMD version lasts 30% longer on battery, it'll matter.Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
All else remaining equal the APU would offer: Better battery life, lower "skin temp", and less noise. Also, price. The i7-8550u equipped model with an MX150 seem to be priced roughly $150 more. That's not zero, and neither model (when equipped with an SSD) is "budget" in the traditional sense.vladx - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
I wasn't talking about MX150 HP Envy vs Vega HP Envy, they obviously don't match price wise. But you're delusional if you think we won't get cheaper laptops offers with the MX150 in the future.neblogai - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
AMD can live with lower profit margins than Intel, thus it can sell APUs cheaper. Note the fact that Intel+mx150 means extra price of dGPU core, plus GDDR5 memory, plus more complicated cooling, compared with just the APU price. So AMD with this APU can easily take over the segment of 920-940mx price-wise. Maybe even compete at higher price level of mx150, although that would need a less efficient 65W RR part with all 11CUs enabled.Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Nice try... you even mentioned the MX150 and said "if it can't beat it, it's a total failure" and then when someone pointed out the massive TDP difference you said "that doesn't matter, they compete in the same budget-oriented market". Keep backpedaling. The APU is cheaper, uses less power, etc. ilt24's correction was right - the more expensive and hungrier i7 + MX150 is not a fair comparison.With that being said, if an OEM released a 25W configured 2700U that would be a lot more interesting for me, even though it would STILL have lower TDP.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Oh, and pricewise Nvidia can't go much lower so I hope you're banking on an i7 pricedrop from Intel. Otherwise start looking at i5 and i3 "U" models to pair with that MX150.Etern205 - Sunday, November 26, 2017 - link
The envy x360 with mx150 comes with a 90w adapter, while the one with just intel hd comes with a 65w adapter.Mil0 - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
It's pretty close, given that it's only got 15W to work with. The R7 has 25% more CUs and almost 20% more clockspeed, so combined 48% more performance - enough to beat the 'm150.vladx - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
\We shall see if that translates into real world performance, as we all know AMD tend to suck so I wouldn't bet on it.vladx - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
*AMD drivers tend to suck I meant.peevee - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
11CUs in this Vega according to the test table.Etern205 - Sunday, November 26, 2017 - link
The stock version only has intel hd graphics. Ones with mx150 is optional and cost $100 extra.lefty2 - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
The problem with geekbench is you don't know if people are gaming the benches. For instance, i78550U ranges from 4200 to 4900. (The one you picked was the lowest):https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?q=i7+8...
peevee - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
Sad.joms_us - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Couldn't wait for the review. Oh wait those m0r0ns would think A11 is faster than this Ryzen chip because of the w*rthless GB. =DAlexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
GeekBench really is a steaming pile, even by synthetic benchmark standards. Might as well break out Dhrystone.MrSpadge - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
What an excellent offer at 600$, if you add an M.2 SSD yourself! Still pretty good at 700$.msroadkill612 - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
good strategy.best to clone the HDD boot drive to the ssd & boot on ssd.
GreenReaper - Sunday, November 26, 2017 - link
As a bonus, if you clone the HDD to an SSD, you have a perfectly-sized HDD for backup. :-)HStewart - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
In general X360's look nice but I found personally that HP's are cheaply made.I thought the X360's were aim at primary professional users - you don't need powerful GPU for most business needs.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Even if you're right and most buyers are business users with no "need" for a faster GPU, more software than ever leans on the GPU for performance benefits. Look at the work Firefox has been doing with Quantum, for example. GPU compute in action.Also, I know a lot of nerds that buy a device for "work" with light gaming as a side benefit. OEMs even cram dGPUs in a lot of "pro" models, so they must sell enough to justify it. That doesn't even count the professional creative-types who have needed a little GPU horsepower for many years.
Rocket321 - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Really look forward to the review!Does the stylus have 2,000+ levels of pressure sensitivity, I.e. Usable by an amateur graphic artist? I hope they send one with the sample and you give some anacdotal commentary.
Myrandex - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
Happy to hear about the review unit coming in! I bought one online back on Nov 10, but it will be a while before it arrives (with 8+8 memory config & an SSD option).serendip - Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - link
How about something smaller? An APU in a 12" tablet chassis would be nice, like a supercharged Surface.neblogai - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Yes, I'd also be interested in something like that. At least 2c4t with 8-10CUs in a platform similar to surface pro2 (able to cool ~33W continuous load), just with 12-13" screen would allow to make nearly full use of Ryzen mobile U series capabilities for light gaming and still be very portable and inexpensive.yannigr2 - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
NVMe support, 16GB of RAM. It looks like an upgraded model, compared to what AMD's slides where showing.msroadkill612 - Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - link
Just to clarify folks, when optioned for 2 drives, they cryptically switch terminology from nvme to m.2 SSD.m.2 is not necessarily nvme - it probably means the paired ssd is the much slower sata type. Still fast, but can be up to 6x slower.
peevee - Thursday, November 16, 2017 - link
Good catch.lenghui - Friday, November 17, 2017 - link
I can't believe HP is charging 2.5x the premium for SSD ($310 to upgrade from 1TB HDD to 512GB SSD). A sale lost. Too bad for AMD.Etern205 - Sunday, November 26, 2017 - link
Won't matter if they don't get a sale from you, when others can still buy it, and add a ssd themselves.acme64 - Friday, November 17, 2017 - link
why cant i find any benchmarks on this chip?Etern205 - Sunday, November 26, 2017 - link
Cause no one has gotten their hands on it yet?cmhansen - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - link
Does the TDP include the IGP? A GTX 1050m by itself is maybe 40-50W, but 'only' about 2x performance of an MX150. So, two Ryzen 2700U IGPs would about equal a GTX 1050m performance with an improved TDP. And 8 CPU cores / 16 threads to boot! Might AMD be so kind to include SMP to enable this? To scale, 4x 2700U's in a desktop would about give a GTX 1060 performance, which is quite a lot of 'GPU' (about $300 worth, cost-wise), about a PS4 pro level of GPU performance, and a good deal better on the CPU side with 16 cores / 32 threads. All in a 60W TDP?! For perspective, 160W TDP would be hard to believe for that performance capability and still very compelling, even for a small, passive HTPC design. Likewise, it would be scalable to any size server. Non-gamers should want great GPU performance at least as much, if not even more-so, considering CAD and many design workflows.