Everything comes full circle eventually, with the PC market being stagnant and people not generally upgrading components individually this was inevitable.
Is it funny that the first though in my mind were the Amiga 3000/4000 with the modular daughterboards?
PC market being stagnant? Gaming GPUs are increasing YoY quite a bit. (Overall GPU sales are down from 2011, but that is because a lot of those GPUs were simply entry-level GPUs not used for gaming).
Remember, we're talking about ROG here. That is a gaming brand. So gaming sales are what counts. Gaming sales in the PC space are not stagnant, you're talking out of your ass.
Yeah a retro look at this day and age would be very much appropriate since your standard motherboard has been around for decades. The "rear IO" part looks interesting breaking out into SLI for PCIE X16 slots would be needed on the GPU side rather than a daughter-card layout.
That is cute! One bit of feedback; No home theater person is going consider that home theater backplane. There are 3 options for audio output: Through the video card piggybacking on the HDMI/DP output, via optical, or with old-school analog jacks. I assume that the piggyback option is available, but the lack of optical or surround analog is an instant deal breaker for many.
Also, why not make the front drive bay modular like the rear IO area? Again, for a home theater/home server design there would still be lots of call for traditional HDDs, and it looks like you could pretty easily cram 4 HDDs and 2 SSDs up there if you really wanted to. The ability to swap the whole cage out for whatever drive config you need at the moment would be rather useful.
Outside of that, it seems like a really great idea! Keep working on it!
I don't think the lack of optical or analog is a huge issue. Honestly once you have a HDMI capable receiver there is no point to mess with those inferior options.
I think a lack of optical or analog is a huge deal breaker for any home theater setup - unless you constantly change your receivers to match display technology, your HDMI receivers are going to get outdated quick for HDCP streaming, or you would need enough HDMI ports. My current home theater setup with my projector is direct display connection to the comp, with an optical out to the receiver, as the projector doesn't handle audio out to receiver well - receiver is also out of HDMI ports.
I think you are very wrong in this. I haven't heard of anybody who doesn't use HDMI directly. If you run out of HDMI ports on your receiver, you can always hook it up directly to the TV and then use optical from the TV to the receiver.
Analog from your computer to your hifi sucks most of the time. A lot of interference and cables that cause problems. It's best to get the digital to analog conversion as far away from the computer as possible in my experience.
Not true... Using a SB ZxR PCI-e sound card w/Analog Monster cables from my PC direct to my Onkyo TX-NR809 and running the sound through two Klipsch RB-81 II's (bi-wired w/12 ga.wire) and a Klipsch 12RW-D and the sound and imaging (both iTunes and gaming) is simply incredible....
No sound effects are applied through or by the AVR and this setup simply destroys any plug-n-play speaker setups, regardless of price-point, name-brand, features, etc. on the market today.
Once funds allow, the Onkyo will either be: upgraded to a higher quality integrated amp, power & pre-amp duo or add an analog/tube power amp to it.
I know sound quality is subjective to the listener but honestly, I tried this same setup using the onboard Realtek sound "chip" (because that is what it is) and the sound "sucked" as you stated. A higher quality soundcard must be employed to achieve the desired effect and on that note, one where the op-amps can be swapped to further upgrade/sweeten the sound.
Just my opinion here concerning what hardware is involved, concerning analog sound.
I like the concept but I would have them do something far simpler. Simply have the PCI slots and IO on the back side. The board then acts as a wall separating the two main heat sources in a PC, The CPU and the GPU's. It would be a simple adjustment for the case manufacturers and lower the cost of entry, while not significantly altering the ATX standard too much. You could even keep a 1x PCI slot on the front for a sound card for noise isolation. PSU and Hdd go intheir own chamber like a lot of cases do already. Glad to see they're innovating though
Watching that video in full screen made me feel like I was on the geekiest acid trip ever. EIS in video is just not a good thing. Was that filmed with a Galaxy S7? Videos from my girlfriend's S7 sometimes have the same disturbing quality to them.
At the point of breaking back compatibility with almost everything else in the PC, I'm a bit disappointed that they left the power delivery as ATX standard. With almost everything on the mobo running on locally stepped down 12V instead of 3.3 or 5V as was the case when the original spec was designed, the 24pin connector could have about half of its wires removed making it much easier to route and freeing up a decent size chunk of space on the board itself. PCIe 4 allowing upto 300W of power through the PCIe socket's another reason to consider a redesign here. Just moving a bunch of 8 pin power connectors from the cards to the mobo seems like a step backwards that would make cable routing even worse than it is now.
That's a bit disappointing. While the 300W number felt like it was just moving the goal posts around a more modest bump to 100W (especially if it could be all 12v vs the current 65W@12v + [email protected]) would've allowed a major bump up in the GPU level that could be slot powered by allowing cards roughly one performance level higher in each generation to run without an extra power connector.
So one side is "accessible" so you can swap the cpu, ssd & ram and then the sata/io daughter board allows that stuff to be accessible somewhere in the case?
Very interesting. I'm still trying to work out how the pcie graphics card fits into the whole thing.
The mobo has a PCIe x16 (-ish) slot on the bottom, which slots onto a (90 degree angled) riser card, on which the GPU sits. It's in the left compartment when seen from the front.
The top comes off to access CPU, RAM and 1st m.2. The side panels come off to reveal the GPU (left) and radiator/fans (right). The PSU and SATA drives sit beneath the motherboard, between the GPU and rad/fans.
Their monitors are laughable these days. Their motherboards are potentially the most fully featured, but I'd rather guarantee something that works. I've had too many delayed PC builds due to having to RMA a single necessary component (DoA) out for 2~3 weeks before I got the component back and actually got a chance to sit down and work on it again.
Why delay a new pc build on DOA components and wait weeks? just return it to the store for a replacement. Amazon will cross ship, and if you cause enough of a fuss, Newegg will too. As long as your within 30 days of purchase, you have way better options than fooling with a long drawn out RMA process.
Id take what he says with a grain of salt. Joey is an incredibly opinionated person, and the general consensus is nobody here agrees with his opinions. In this particular case, his opinions are grossly outdated. Thousands of Amazon and newegg reviews, crossed with OEM wins and many personal experiences have proven Asus' professional monitors from the last few years are among the best available in the consumer market. The same goes for their motherboards, except dating back to the 80's. Asus is the largest consumer motherboard manufacturer in the world (Foxconn and Pegatron are technically larger because they have so many OEM contracts, but that doesn't mean Asus doesn't have any.) now don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them the best. In those terms, VW and Toyota would be the best cars in the world since they are the largest automakers. But VW and Toyota are without a doubt class leaders in the high end.
My point is, if you buy some shitty $60 Asus board, don't compare it to a $130 Asus board. Compare it to a (potentially better) MSI, gigabyte or Foxconn board, where the competition weighs on Asus' desire to even bother competing due to saturating their lucrative high end.
Asus has had more legendary boards, dating back to the 440BX days, than any other vendor I can think of. The P6T Workstation boards on the X58 chipset, for example, currently sell for what they cost 8 years ago...they have lost no net value.
Beside Asus, the only other boards I use myself are Supermicro, and I've had a lot of issues with Supermicro. The difference is Supermicro is actually willing to make you a custom modified BIOS if necessary for your application (in my various cases usually to get PCI compatibility with specific RAID controllers, JBOD multiplexers, or network controllers) where as Asus (nor any other company I know of) will do that.
However, it is incredibly rare one will ever have issues with a decent Asus board. Almost every entry-level builder guide for newbie PC builders recommends Asus motherboards, Samsung or Crucial SSD's, Intel CPU's, eVGA videocards, Corsair PSU's, gskill RAM and Coolermaster heat sinks because the combination is generally idiot proof.
And at the high end, Asus is virtually the only vendor to offer OEM class options for workstations and servers, besides Supermicro.
ASUS has been "looking" for a replacement for my half-functional X99-E WS motherboard for more than 6 weeks now. I could send mine in instead of doing an advanced RMA, but I can still do most things on that build. It is a high-end part. ASUS having no timely replacements is on them.
I also submitted an e-RMA request for an old P9X79 LE, but it has yet to be approved 7 days later.
Their RMA department is a joke. You have to call them on the phone (repeatedly) in order to get any results. They really do need to fix that.
Since ASUS is looking for feedback, IMHO this is not something I would buy.
If the whole point is to keep one's CPU and Memory while upgrading the backplane or peripherals, or keep one's backplane and swap out the CPU and Memory, then components on a typical backplane (audio, usb, network, thunderbolt) could all be moved to PCIe add-on cards to allow mix and match. Half height, double width, short depth 1x and 4x slots would be great. 2x 10Gbe or TB3 might need an 8x slot. The only thing that needs to be on the backplane are the video ports coming off of the CPU's iGPU. Everything else is derived as PCIe from the CPU or chipset.
Conversely, if the aesthetics of slots is strongly disliked, then develop a new standard. Divide the ATX backplane into several "cubes" with mezzanine connectors. Cubes can be mixed and matched, and sit flush on the motherboard. Cubes that need twice the bandwidth could be twice as wide and use 2 mezzanine connectors.
It seems that the south bridge chip is becoming unnecessary. M.2 or U.2 drives, GPUs, Sound, Network, RAID, all can be done with straight PCIe lanes from the CPU.
I wish motherboards did not include all of this built in functionality that I may never use. I always end up disabling some ASMedia add-on chip or SATA-Express that I wish I didn't pay for.
Part of the point here is that PCIe cards are very, very space inefficient due to the flexibility of the standard. TB3 requires a PCIe x4 link, but could fit on a PCB smaller than a credit card. Which means the rest of the space reserved for that PCIe slot in your case goes to waste. Of course, manufacturers could make combined 10GBE+TB3 cards, for example, but these would be limited to motherboards supporting lane splitting (which is about zero in the consumer space). This concept allows for compact yet full-featured systems with modularity impossible through ATX (interchangable I/O? Yes please! I don't need your bloody iGPU HDMI output, thank you.)
Also, who says developing a new standard isn't a thought they're entertaining? This is clearly an alternative to ATX (and its siblings), with added modularity and flexibility. How does this really differ from your "cubes" concept?
Wow. That's crazy. I'm not so sure how comfortable I'd be dropping coin on something so radical and proprietary (hence why I don't own any Apple PC's) especially since it is unfortunately unlikely to succeed. It's just too many steps being taken at once. At least they kept standard ATX power connectors though...but in all honesty those are what really need to go.
Most modern SERVERs with proprietary PSU's only run 8-12 pins to the motherboard and supply all the necessary power through eliminating legacy redundancy in the ATX specification and by using thicker gauge wire to carry more current. These servers have higher demands than desktops while generally using more powerful CPS's and PCIe controllers.
ATX specifications are a real burden on system integrators which is why there are so many modifications to it, creating proprietary motherboards.
My 2 cents. The most important consideration for htpc would be how small a space can you get a desktop i7 and gtx1080 into.
To me, with such a proprietry system, the key is make an awesome cooling system that is near silent, fits in home theatre set up, and has a nice modern aesthetic.
Basically a ps4 but way more powerful. Being able to configure io back ports is more about Asus providing separate models for me to buy. I am not going to be plugging more than one in.
At first look I thought the system would feature gigantic passive heatsinks. Perhaps a modification of their modular design could accommodate such a thing. A lower, wider stance (closer to a 4U or average HT receiver) and a TFX size PSU might allow for large heatsinks on either side; since the GPU is already off to one side, that part would be cake. The right heatsink could be heatpiped over to the CPU. That might make for a monster gaming/HTPC.
I really love this idea! One thing that I didn't like is no air filters for the fans. This sort of system, being a bit of a puzzle to take apart and rebuild, could be a real issue for cleaning the system regularly. I also agree with Ian, that 10GBaseT port(s), would be a really nice option for the back panel module.
At first I was very skeptical of this concept (mostly given how fugly that case is and how oddly huge it seems for a compact system), but it's grown on me.
-The interchangable I/O (with the option of routing PCIe there!) is pure genius.
-Stacking components is the way to go. Just look at the Dan A4 case or Ncase M1. This concept seems a bit too limited in terms of possible placements and orientations, but it's a start.
-Dual sided motherboards will add to complexity, but also utility. And $5-10 extra motherboard cost is cheap if it saves you from getting a $100 PCIe riser cable.
-More flexible solutions for todays smaller PCIe cards are desperately needed. Sticking an m.2 slot flat between your ATX mobo's PCIe slots is kind of dumb. Typical design afterthought. "Oh, let's just stick it there and call it a day."
-With motherboard support, a GPU riser could easily run two cards in x8+x8 mode - if the board supports lane splitting, it shouldn't even require a PLX chip, right? And with PCIe 4, this would effectively be PCIe 3 x16+x16, the gold standard for multi-GPU today. That would be true modularity.
But as a few others here have mentioned, several aspects of the ATX standard could do with modernization. Do we need 24-pin power connectors when nearly everything runs off 12V? Could PSUs be simplified by removing 3.3V and 5V altogether? How would standby power then be handled? Should support for PCIe lane splitting be required for spec compliance?
The moral of the story: Keep working on this, Asus. But PLEASE, work towards an open standard. A standard centred on modularity, customization, power efficiency, space efficiency and serviceability. That would be the way to make this a success. Any proprietary solution will be more stillborn than BTX ever was.
well, this looks nice - could have some aesthetic design improvements here and there, such as the CPU on front first and the DRAM in the back from a front to back view. Its a fantastic concept and I'd definitely buy as a home theatre PC. I'm not a fan of the 2.5" drive design, as i think the handles could be better concealed/foldable - why not have 3.5" drives with 2.5" adapters/caddys? The design as it stands would not match a home theatre device rack setup/aesthetic, but the concept is promising.
if the price were to remain relatively close to a comparable HTPC SFF build of same quality (materials, aesthertics), then I would buy. Otherwise, current contendors for my HTPC builds are Corsair's Bulldog, or Corsair's 380T, budgeting $2000.
I like it! In particular, I like the emphasis on ease of use. I like that the motherboard and CPU are oriented horizontally, and the GPU and RAM sticks are oriented vertically, making it easy to insert, remove, and upgrade these components.
The thing I don't like about tower designs is that you typically need to either plug in components sideways (which can be a pain to get all of the connectors to seat properly) or you need to remove all the connections and put the case on its side. At the same time, most horizontal cases are for HTPCs and designed for compactness and quiet operation rather than for high-end components and high-performance cooling.
I would seriously consider buying this, but only if ASUS is committed to sticking with supporting this form factor in the future. When Intel produces a new socket or chipset, I would want to be able to buy a new motherboard in the same form factor, rather than have to throw everything out.
Like the design, looks like a hifi cmponent. Getting rid of messy cables is great. However, the one component likely to be exchanged most frequently is the graphics card and that isn't incorporated into the proprietary format. Perhaps it isn't possible due to the amount of watts and the pci-e slot, but those cables look out of place when everything else is without visible cabling. Furthermore, Asus has perfected the water cooled dock that snaps onto the GX700/800 laptops. Let's see those connections on the graphics card here, rather than clumsy looking tubing. On the one hand, develping a proprietary connection for the GPU and always supplying their best new graphics cards to this format first, would raise the want to have factor in a larger group, to prevent this being too niche. On the other hand, with a proprietary format, from the perspective of the consumer, comes the risk of Asus NOT upgrading the components every year, but rather changing the connections, hence requiring the consumer to buy an entirely new PC, with chassis etc. So Asus will have to launch new modules within their proprietary connections format for quite some time to show that the units really are upgradeable. Those switchable rear i/o panels, meh, all of those connections could fit onto one, so kind of pointless. Perhaps make more niche variations like for a recording studio etc. Furthermore, there should be more variety in general, how about optical drive? Yes I know most don't use it anymore, but the whole point to me of this machine is niche, niche, niche. Find those niches and the HTPC crowd using madVR for the most part use the optical drive, and frequently buy a new GPU.
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Exodite - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Everything comes full circle eventually, with the PC market being stagnant and people not generally upgrading components individually this was inevitable.Is it funny that the first though in my mind were the Amiga 3000/4000 with the modular daughterboards?
Mondozai - Monday, September 12, 2016 - link
PC market being stagnant? Gaming GPUs are increasing YoY quite a bit. (Overall GPU sales are down from 2011, but that is because a lot of those GPUs were simply entry-level GPUs not used for gaming).Remember, we're talking about ROG here. That is a gaming brand. So gaming sales are what counts. Gaming sales in the PC space are not stagnant, you're talking out of your ass.
HOOfan 1 - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
This thing would look right at home in an early 1980s stereo setupfteoath64 - Monday, September 5, 2016 - link
Yeah a retro look at this day and age would be very much appropriate since your standard motherboard has been around for decades. The "rear IO" part looks interesting breaking out into SLI for PCIE X16 slots would be needed on the GPU side rather than a daughter-card layout.CaedenV - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
That is cute!One bit of feedback;
No home theater person is going consider that home theater backplane. There are 3 options for audio output: Through the video card piggybacking on the HDMI/DP output, via optical, or with old-school analog jacks. I assume that the piggyback option is available, but the lack of optical or surround analog is an instant deal breaker for many.
Also, why not make the front drive bay modular like the rear IO area? Again, for a home theater/home server design there would still be lots of call for traditional HDDs, and it looks like you could pretty easily cram 4 HDDs and 2 SSDs up there if you really wanted to. The ability to swap the whole cage out for whatever drive config you need at the moment would be rather useful.
Outside of that, it seems like a really great idea! Keep working on it!
namechamps - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
I don't think the lack of optical or analog is a huge issue. Honestly once you have a HDMI capable receiver there is no point to mess with those inferior options.Sushisamurai - Sunday, September 4, 2016 - link
I think a lack of optical or analog is a huge deal breaker for any home theater setup - unless you constantly change your receivers to match display technology, your HDMI receivers are going to get outdated quick for HDCP streaming, or you would need enough HDMI ports. My current home theater setup with my projector is direct display connection to the comp, with an optical out to the receiver, as the projector doesn't handle audio out to receiver well - receiver is also out of HDMI ports.Sushisamurai - Sunday, September 4, 2016 - link
I understand that current recievers have 6-8 HDMI inputs, but older ones can be populated relatively quickly (3 to 5):1. Blu-ray
2. Chromecast/AppleTV
3. Xbox
4. PS3/4
5. Computer
I assume most home setups have this configuration.
drgigolo - Monday, September 5, 2016 - link
I think you are very wrong in this. I haven't heard of anybody who doesn't use HDMI directly. If you run out of HDMI ports on your receiver, you can always hook it up directly to the TV and then use optical from the TV to the receiver.Analog from your computer to your hifi sucks most of the time. A lot of interference and cables that cause problems. It's best to get the digital to analog conversion as far away from the computer as possible in my experience.
vacavalier - Saturday, September 24, 2016 - link
Not true... Using a SB ZxR PCI-e sound card w/Analog Monster cables from my PC direct to my Onkyo TX-NR809 and running the sound through two Klipsch RB-81 II's (bi-wired w/12 ga.wire) and a Klipsch 12RW-D and the sound and imaging (both iTunes and gaming) is simply incredible....No sound effects are applied through or by the AVR and this setup simply destroys any plug-n-play speaker setups, regardless of price-point, name-brand, features, etc. on the market today.
Once funds allow, the Onkyo will either be: upgraded to a higher quality integrated amp, power & pre-amp duo or add an analog/tube power amp to it.
I know sound quality is subjective to the listener but honestly, I tried this same setup using the onboard Realtek sound "chip" (because that is what it is) and the sound "sucked" as you stated. A higher quality soundcard must be employed to achieve the desired effect and on that note, one where the op-amps can be swapped to further upgrade/sweeten the sound.
Just my opinion here concerning what hardware is involved, concerning analog sound.
vacavalier - Saturday, September 24, 2016 - link
As a note, I did do the optical cable on both the ZxR and the Realtek and personally prefer the RCA/analog connection-sound.Manch - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
I like the concept but I would have them do something far simpler. Simply have the PCI slots and IO on the back side. The board then acts as a wall separating the two main heat sources in a PC, The CPU and the GPU's. It would be a simple adjustment for the case manufacturers and lower the cost of entry, while not significantly altering the ATX standard too much. You could even keep a 1x PCI slot on the front for a sound card for noise isolation. PSU and Hdd go intheir own chamber like a lot of cases do already. Glad to see they're innovating thoughValantar - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Watching that video in full screen made me feel like I was on the geekiest acid trip ever. EIS in video is just not a good thing. Was that filmed with a Galaxy S7? Videos from my girlfriend's S7 sometimes have the same disturbing quality to them.DanNeely - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
At the point of breaking back compatibility with almost everything else in the PC, I'm a bit disappointed that they left the power delivery as ATX standard. With almost everything on the mobo running on locally stepped down 12V instead of 3.3 or 5V as was the case when the original spec was designed, the 24pin connector could have about half of its wires removed making it much easier to route and freeing up a decent size chunk of space on the board itself. PCIe 4 allowing upto 300W of power through the PCIe socket's another reason to consider a redesign here. Just moving a bunch of 8 pin power connectors from the cards to the mobo seems like a step backwards that would make cable routing even worse than it is now.The_Assimilator - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Except PCIe 4.0 doesn't allow that much power draw. The initial report was a misunderstanding/hoax, the power delivery will remain at 75W.DanNeely - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
That's a bit disappointing. While the 300W number felt like it was just moving the goal posts around a more modest bump to 100W (especially if it could be all 12v vs the current 65W@12v + [email protected]) would've allowed a major bump up in the GPU level that could be slot powered by allowing cards roughly one performance level higher in each generation to run without an extra power connector.ImSpartacus - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
So one side is "accessible" so you can swap the cpu, ssd & ram and then the sata/io daughter board allows that stuff to be accessible somewhere in the case?Very interesting. I'm still trying to work out how the pcie graphics card fits into the whole thing.
Valantar - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
The mobo has a PCIe x16 (-ish) slot on the bottom, which slots onto a (90 degree angled) riser card, on which the GPU sits. It's in the left compartment when seen from the front.The top comes off to access CPU, RAM and 1st m.2. The side panels come off to reveal the GPU (left) and radiator/fans (right). The PSU and SATA drives sit beneath the motherboard, between the GPU and rad/fans.
df2rools - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Asus needs to fix their RMA/QA before I try anything from them.JoeyJoJo123 - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
This right here.Their monitors are laughable these days. Their motherboards are potentially the most fully featured, but I'd rather guarantee something that works. I've had too many delayed PC builds due to having to RMA a single necessary component (DoA) out for 2~3 weeks before I got the component back and actually got a chance to sit down and work on it again.
Morawka - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Why delay a new pc build on DOA components and wait weeks? just return it to the store for a replacement. Amazon will cross ship, and if you cause enough of a fuss, Newegg will too. As long as your within 30 days of purchase, you have way better options than fooling with a long drawn out RMA process.bigboxes - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
This. Why wouldn't you return a defective product to the seller? It's what I do for a living. If I waited 2-3 weeks I'd be out of business.Samus - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
Id take what he says with a grain of salt. Joey is an incredibly opinionated person, and the general consensus is nobody here agrees with his opinions. In this particular case, his opinions are grossly outdated. Thousands of Amazon and newegg reviews, crossed with OEM wins and many personal experiences have proven Asus' professional monitors from the last few years are among the best available in the consumer market. The same goes for their motherboards, except dating back to the 80's. Asus is the largest consumer motherboard manufacturer in the world (Foxconn and Pegatron are technically larger because they have so many OEM contracts, but that doesn't mean Asus doesn't have any.) now don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them the best. In those terms, VW and Toyota would be the best cars in the world since they are the largest automakers. But VW and Toyota are without a doubt class leaders in the high end.My point is, if you buy some shitty $60 Asus board, don't compare it to a $130 Asus board. Compare it to a (potentially better) MSI, gigabyte or Foxconn board, where the competition weighs on Asus' desire to even bother competing due to saturating their lucrative high end.
Asus has had more legendary boards, dating back to the 440BX days, than any other vendor I can think of. The P6T Workstation boards on the X58 chipset, for example, currently sell for what they cost 8 years ago...they have lost no net value.
Beside Asus, the only other boards I use myself are Supermicro, and I've had a lot of issues with Supermicro. The difference is Supermicro is actually willing to make you a custom modified BIOS if necessary for your application (in my various cases usually to get PCI compatibility with specific RAID controllers, JBOD multiplexers, or network controllers) where as Asus (nor any other company I know of) will do that.
However, it is incredibly rare one will ever have issues with a decent Asus board. Almost every entry-level builder guide for newbie PC builders recommends Asus motherboards, Samsung or Crucial SSD's, Intel CPU's, eVGA videocards, Corsair PSU's, gskill RAM and Coolermaster heat sinks because the combination is generally idiot proof.
And at the high end, Asus is virtually the only vendor to offer OEM class options for workstations and servers, besides Supermicro.
Maleorderbride - Sunday, September 4, 2016 - link
ASUS has been "looking" for a replacement for my half-functional X99-E WS motherboard for more than 6 weeks now. I could send mine in instead of doing an advanced RMA, but I can still do most things on that build. It is a high-end part. ASUS having no timely replacements is on them.I also submitted an e-RMA request for an old P9X79 LE, but it has yet to be approved 7 days later.
Their RMA department is a joke. You have to call them on the phone (repeatedly) in order to get any results. They really do need to fix that.
Eidigean - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Since ASUS is looking for feedback, IMHO this is not something I would buy.If the whole point is to keep one's CPU and Memory while upgrading the backplane or peripherals, or keep one's backplane and swap out the CPU and Memory, then components on a typical backplane (audio, usb, network, thunderbolt) could all be moved to PCIe add-on cards to allow mix and match. Half height, double width, short depth 1x and 4x slots would be great. 2x 10Gbe or TB3 might need an 8x slot. The only thing that needs to be on the backplane are the video ports coming off of the CPU's iGPU. Everything else is derived as PCIe from the CPU or chipset.
Conversely, if the aesthetics of slots is strongly disliked, then develop a new standard. Divide the ATX backplane into several "cubes" with mezzanine connectors. Cubes can be mixed and matched, and sit flush on the motherboard. Cubes that need twice the bandwidth could be twice as wide and use 2 mezzanine connectors.
It seems that the south bridge chip is becoming unnecessary. M.2 or U.2 drives, GPUs, Sound, Network, RAID, all can be done with straight PCIe lanes from the CPU.
I wish motherboards did not include all of this built in functionality that I may never use. I always end up disabling some ASMedia add-on chip or SATA-Express that I wish I didn't pay for.
Valantar - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
Part of the point here is that PCIe cards are very, very space inefficient due to the flexibility of the standard. TB3 requires a PCIe x4 link, but could fit on a PCB smaller than a credit card. Which means the rest of the space reserved for that PCIe slot in your case goes to waste. Of course, manufacturers could make combined 10GBE+TB3 cards, for example, but these would be limited to motherboards supporting lane splitting (which is about zero in the consumer space). This concept allows for compact yet full-featured systems with modularity impossible through ATX (interchangable I/O? Yes please! I don't need your bloody iGPU HDMI output, thank you.)Also, who says developing a new standard isn't a thought they're entertaining? This is clearly an alternative to ATX (and its siblings), with added modularity and flexibility. How does this really differ from your "cubes" concept?
Einy0 - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
This is a great concept but it will be a niche product unless some of this technology is made into an open standard.Morawka - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
yeah asus, stop wasting your time on this. you'll never regain the R&D Spent on it. Its just to nicheOxford Guy - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
Noise isolation is nice until you have a non-passive system that has fan noise to spoil the sound quality.ClockHound - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
+1. That's what I thought at first too. Wish that was a good thing.Like the configurable rear i/o options. Everything else is not so much.
ClockHound - Friday, September 2, 2016 - link
That was my misplaced reply to the eery similarity to 80s hifi gear.Samus - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
Wow. That's crazy. I'm not so sure how comfortable I'd be dropping coin on something so radical and proprietary (hence why I don't own any Apple PC's) especially since it is unfortunately unlikely to succeed. It's just too many steps being taken at once. At least they kept standard ATX power connectors though...but in all honesty those are what really need to go.Most modern SERVERs with proprietary PSU's only run 8-12 pins to the motherboard and supply all the necessary power through eliminating legacy redundancy in the ATX specification and by using thicker gauge wire to carry more current. These servers have higher demands than desktops while generally using more powerful CPS's and PCIe controllers.
ATX specifications are a real burden on system integrators which is why there are so many modifications to it, creating proprietary motherboards.
doggface - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
My 2 cents. The most important consideration for htpc would be how small a space can you get a desktop i7 and gtx1080 into.To me, with such a proprietry system, the key is make an awesome cooling system that is near silent, fits in home theatre set up, and has a nice modern aesthetic.
Basically a ps4 but way more powerful. Being able to configure io back ports is more about Asus providing separate models for me to buy. I am not going to be plugging more than one in.
crashtech - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
At first look I thought the system would feature gigantic passive heatsinks. Perhaps a modification of their modular design could accommodate such a thing. A lower, wider stance (closer to a 4U or average HT receiver) and a TFX size PSU might allow for large heatsinks on either side; since the GPU is already off to one side, that part would be cake. The right heatsink could be heatpiped over to the CPU. That might make for a monster gaming/HTPC.danjw - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
I really love this idea! One thing that I didn't like is no air filters for the fans. This sort of system, being a bit of a puzzle to take apart and rebuild, could be a real issue for cleaning the system regularly. I also agree with Ian, that 10GBaseT port(s), would be a really nice option for the back panel module.Valantar - Saturday, September 3, 2016 - link
At first I was very skeptical of this concept (mostly given how fugly that case is and how oddly huge it seems for a compact system), but it's grown on me.-The interchangable I/O (with the option of routing PCIe there!) is pure genius.
-Stacking components is the way to go. Just look at the Dan A4 case or Ncase M1. This concept seems a bit too limited in terms of possible placements and orientations, but it's a start.
-Dual sided motherboards will add to complexity, but also utility. And $5-10 extra motherboard cost is cheap if it saves you from getting a $100 PCIe riser cable.
-More flexible solutions for todays smaller PCIe cards are desperately needed. Sticking an m.2 slot flat between your ATX mobo's PCIe slots is kind of dumb. Typical design afterthought. "Oh, let's just stick it there and call it a day."
-With motherboard support, a GPU riser could easily run two cards in x8+x8 mode - if the board supports lane splitting, it shouldn't even require a PLX chip, right? And with PCIe 4, this would effectively be PCIe 3 x16+x16, the gold standard for multi-GPU today. That would be true modularity.
But as a few others here have mentioned, several aspects of the ATX standard could do with modernization. Do we need 24-pin power connectors when nearly everything runs off 12V? Could PSUs be simplified by removing 3.3V and 5V altogether? How would standby power then be handled? Should support for PCIe lane splitting be required for spec compliance?
The moral of the story: Keep working on this, Asus. But PLEASE, work towards an open standard. A standard centred on modularity, customization, power efficiency, space efficiency and serviceability. That would be the way to make this a success. Any proprietary solution will be more stillborn than BTX ever was.
Sushisamurai - Sunday, September 4, 2016 - link
well, this looks nice - could have some aesthetic design improvements here and there, such as the CPU on front first and the DRAM in the back from a front to back view. Its a fantastic concept and I'd definitely buy as a home theatre PC. I'm not a fan of the 2.5" drive design, as i think the handles could be better concealed/foldable - why not have 3.5" drives with 2.5" adapters/caddys? The design as it stands would not match a home theatre device rack setup/aesthetic, but the concept is promising.Sushisamurai - Sunday, September 4, 2016 - link
if the price were to remain relatively close to a comparable HTPC SFF build of same quality (materials, aesthertics), then I would buy. Otherwise, current contendors for my HTPC builds are Corsair's Bulldog, or Corsair's 380T, budgeting $2000.deathdemon89 - Monday, September 5, 2016 - link
I'd buy this if:a) It isn't sold at too much of a premium from the traditional form-factor designs
b) It has space for traditional HDDs
RoninX - Thursday, September 8, 2016 - link
I like it! In particular, I like the emphasis on ease of use. I like that the motherboard and CPU are oriented horizontally, and the GPU and RAM sticks are oriented vertically, making it easy to insert, remove, and upgrade these components.The thing I don't like about tower designs is that you typically need to either plug in components sideways (which can be a pain to get all of the connectors to seat properly) or you need to remove all the connections and put the case on its side. At the same time, most horizontal cases are for HTPCs and designed for compactness and quiet operation rather than for high-end components and high-performance cooling.
I would seriously consider buying this, but only if ASUS is committed to sticking with supporting this form factor in the future. When Intel produces a new socket or chipset, I would want to be able to buy a new motherboard in the same form factor, rather than have to throw everything out.
Gadgety - Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - link
Like the design, looks like a hifi cmponent. Getting rid of messy cables is great. However, the one component likely to be exchanged most frequently is the graphics card and that isn't incorporated into the proprietary format. Perhaps it isn't possible due to the amount of watts and the pci-e slot, but those cables look out of place when everything else is without visible cabling. Furthermore, Asus has perfected the water cooled dock that snaps onto the GX700/800 laptops. Let's see those connections on the graphics card here, rather than clumsy looking tubing. On the one hand, develping a proprietary connection for the GPU and always supplying their best new graphics cards to this format first, would raise the want to have factor in a larger group, to prevent this being too niche. On the other hand, with a proprietary format, from the perspective of the consumer, comes the risk of Asus NOT upgrading the components every year, but rather changing the connections, hence requiring the consumer to buy an entirely new PC, with chassis etc. So Asus will have to launch new modules within their proprietary connections format for quite some time to show that the units really are upgradeable. Those switchable rear i/o panels, meh, all of those connections could fit onto one, so kind of pointless. Perhaps make more niche variations like for a recording studio etc. Furthermore, there should be more variety in general, how about optical drive? Yes I know most don't use it anymore, but the whole point to me of this machine is niche, niche, niche. Find those niches and the HTPC crowd using madVR for the most part use the optical drive, and frequently buy a new GPU.