I own one laptop with Kaveri and one with Carrizo and honestly, I think they are tremendous values for the money. I don't think that Bristol Ridge will be worth waiting for, but if it helps having a few more options with AMD inside, I think it'll be good for everybody: more competition always helps.
Personally, I find these a good choice for "multi purpose" home PC/laptops. Casual gaming is solid and the rest of the performance is good. Yes, it falls short of Intel's in terms of sheer CPU speed and power efficiency, but you'd be hard pressed to see a difference unless you do heavy encoding. But you get the benefit of a good GPU on AMD platform and, usually, lower prices.
Problem is most if these system ship with single-channel memory and not the top-line APU. The later means the GPU mostly isn't that much better anymore than intels. If you actually manage to find the top-sku with dual.channel memory, price wise your in intel i5 + nv dGPU area. And this combo just beats an APU by a huge margin. Battery life might suffer a bit but doesn't really matter for "home laptop". Mobile dGPUs still are just a lot faster than iGPU especially under throttling scenarios and in these AMD APUs can actually also become CPU limited.
AMD is just too slow. If you can combine the APU with a dGPU and the dGPU is only used for 3D heavy apps, then it gets more useful (turn CrossFire on/off). But as it seems AMD just betting on game developers to implement heterogeneous multi-gpu in dx12 correctly.
I think some of it is the single channel issue with AMD laptops, but I think the other is, in the same power space, Intel has generally caught up to AMD by in large in terms of performance, if not a little better. Intel's Skylake GPUs in the 15w space and especially in the 4.5w space are far and away faster than the AMD offerings, especially when you factor in the single versus dual channel memory issues. In the 35/45w space, it is often the case to, especially with Intel's eDRAM offerings vs what AMD has on tap.
Go back a generation or two and that wouldn't necessarily be the case, but Intel has narrowed the GPU performance gap each generation (and frankly, even 2-3 generations ago, AMD's 17w and below offerings are horribly anemic for CPU and GPU, the 35-45w AMD offerings were below Intel in CPU, but generally had better GPU because there weren't nearly the same power constraint issues).
For what it's worth, I have an A10-7400p kaveri laptop and the performance is really great, much better than AMD is showing in their graphs. For example, I get a score of 1900 in 3d mark 11 (amd's graphs show ~1400), and for cinebench 15 I get 201, theirs show 145 or so.
The laptop came with only single channel ram, but for $35, I added a second stick and it doubled my performance. Also, I disabled turbo core, which also disables cpu and gpu throttling, improving performance by another 20-30% in most tests.
Sure, manufacturers including only single channel ram is a problem, but it's easy to fix by adding a second stick. However, while it's highly likely to work for kaveri, some carrizo motherboards don't physically have the second channel on the motherboard which is a problem.
I expect the single-channel-only mainboard trend will continue. I hope I'm wrong, but as you said some shared Puma/Carrizo boards did not support a second memory channel regardless of the APU used or number of physical slots.
I would be very surprised to see disabling turbo core benefiting anything but benchmarks. In typical use, it improves overall user experience with short bursts of high speeds. Plus if you're not running a GPU load, it should give more headroom for higher CPU clocks. Then again that's a higher-TDP model and base clocks are already fairly high. Disabling it on the 20W or below models (or configurable TDP models that OEMs typically configure around 15W) would probably have a larger (and mostly negative) impact. Either way I hope Bristol Ridge and beyond continues to refine turbo core with improved granularity.
Yeah the single channel motherboards are a real issue. One of the main reasons I chose a kaveri laptop over carrizo is to have that guaranteed dual channel support.
As for the turbo core performance, as you said it's good for burst tasks such as loading up games/programs or zipping/unzipping files, etc. However, it is terrible for sustained load in games. The stock speed of the a10-7400p is 2.5ghz and with turbo core on it turbos up to 3.0-3.5ghz for burst tasks. However, in games it starts at 3.5ghz, then throttles all the way down to 1.4ghz after playing for a few minutes. This is with a 35w tdp part too. For example, in tomb raider (not rise of), just standing still in a particular scene can start with 50-55 fps, then I can watch the frame rate gradually degrade until it hits 25 or so. With turbo core disabled, it hovers at a constant 45 fps without fluctuating; the clock speed stays at a constant 2.5ghz. The igpu clock stays at a constant 655mhz as well, it would throttle down to 400-500mhz with turbo core enabled. Disabling turbo core has clear real world impact.
Disabling turbo core also seems to raise the tdp cap, but nothing too crazy. With turbo core enabled, the temperature caps at about 63C, whereas disabling turbo core raises the temp to 73 or so, which really isn't that bad for the significant performance boost.
Actually, most laptops use K10 APUs, which are at the top of their line. I have a Toshiba with the A10 7800P which costed me around 450usd. Granted is not high-end, but it handles games with ease (for an iGPU): better than anything Intel has to offer. And the CPU gap is not noticeable on everyday tasks: it is nearly impossible to max out the CPU unless you are doing some specific coding/compression.
14nm Zen should improve CPU/compute in laptops so much that it will allow AMD to be used for what you would prefer Intel for previously. Even if 40% IPC improvement is an exaggeration, the improvement will be tangible. It could also get a really nice boost in graphics... like double the performance or better. Skipping 20nm is a big deal. Now we just have to wait another year for it.
I'd love a high res version of that pic with all the die shots. I love die shots and it's cool to see the progression. Although, I think it's weird that AMD is counting Beema as an entire generation when it is technically the lower end line, isn't it, compared to the rest of them? Oh well.
I think this pretty much matches what everyone was expecting really. Sure, some people hoped for more, but even for them it was just hopes (14nm, 16CU, etc).
10% over Carrizo is good for laptops (especially if they are dual-channel ...). And it's good to see Kaveri finally buried on the desktop. The 50% improvement is probably mostly from the improved power management, letting the chip run faster for longer at lower temperatures.
For the price they are very good chips. And at least AM4 will come with compatibility with future Zen SoCs.
This. "Despite AMD quoting a 50% gain in Cinebench compared to Kaveri, AMD’s strengths in the notebook line are partly due to the integrated graphics, which historically gets a boost from faster memory. Although this depends on the underlying design by the OEM, as we detailed in our Carrizo OEM overview that pointed the finger at base single channel memory designs being the norm at retail, rather than dual channel." Toshiba, HP, ASUS, Acer, and Lenovo, are you listening? STOP CONFIGURING AMD APU LAPTOPS WITH SLOW, SINGLE-CHANNEL, RAM! ALSO, STOP THROTTLING THE APUS TO GET BETTER BATTERY LIFE!
Also, I hate when charts appear to show a four-fold increase in performance when looking at the lengths of the bars, but when you look at the numbers, it's really only 1/8th of that. So misleading.
As usual, the information was very good. I just wish manufacturers would pay attention to Anand's articles.
Just not going to happen. The AMD APUs are mainly used to target the low end, where price is everything. Shipping with a single channel populated is part of that. The real damage is from designs that have no provision for populating the second channel.
Actually, if it is solely based on the graphs, Bristol is only 7% "better" or faster or whatever than Carrizo. 10% better it is not. It is supposedly up to 50% better than Kaveri and Carrizo is up to 140% better than Kaveri. 1.5/1.4 = 1.07. 7% faster or better or whatever.
Which, granted, is as much as an Intel generation these days. But still marketing speak to try to make it seem even better. The other question is, how much of that is a gain because of DDR4? I assume that is factored in to that 7% gain.
The actual value from the press release is +56.09%. The Carrizo score isn't mentioned there though (but the image does look like +40%). That said, it's all for the 15W scenario. Not that another 10% at 15W is bad.
How do you propose they do that? AMD is desperate for business and could not survive dictating design to customers they know full well are looking to fill the low end of their product line.
Dual channel is nice if you're into gaming or using the compute capability of the GPU. Otherwise, single channel will suffice and one can search and buy the similar RAM stick inside the device.
Unfortunately for AMD, all these innovation is for nothing because of Intel's superior process technology. I just hope they can catch up with the help of Samsung.
"How do you propose they do that? AMD is desperate for business and could not survive dictating design to customers they know full well are looking to fill the low end of their product line."
They could but they won't. And it's not for that reason.
It seems AMD is really drunk with generating hype and making promises lately. They created the Vulkan API and were the last company to have a graphics driver that actually supported it. Linux users are still waiting to have an official driver release that supports more than just the 390. Please hire some developers so your hardware has some drivers that weren't written by freelance fans in the community.
"AMD on the desktop has confirmed that Bristol Ridge and the upcoming Summit Ridge APUs featuring a brand new microarchitecture design will share a platform."
I thought they confirmed that Zen Cpus fit into AM4. Did they say anything about Zen APUs? Low-performance APUs I take for granted. But what about high-performance? Because if they release a 150-200 W, 8 core, R9-graphics high-performance APU with HBM2 shared between CPU and GPU, will that work on AM4?
Bristol Ridge is being hugely underestimated for a few reasons.
First of all, it's moving to DDR4 from DDR3. Charrizo was starved for memory bandwidth, it needed more and DDR4 will provide that.
Second of all, Bristol Ridge has the Delta Compression technology from Tonga on it. This provides about a 50% boost to memory bandwidth to the APU. So all in all we're looking at about 180% to 240% the memory bandwidth from low end DDR3.
Last but not least, it's more power efficient. This means that it won't need as large of a heat-sink or as many heat-pipes or fans to keep the CPU/APU cooled. This also translates into better battery life.
The one catch will be the same thing that caught Charizzo. They're meant to be low price bang for the buck, not ultra budget PCs and manufactures don't seem to understand that a Charrizo with 16gb dual channel LPDDR3 2133 will cost less and outperform a similar priced single channel i3 and 940m dedicated GPU and do so while requiring either a cheaper battery or providing longer battery life, which would let them make their money back and then some simply by raising the MSRP form 300 to 350$.
Sadly, manufacturers I've seen who do Charrizo right also pair it with a bunch of crap you don't need, like a 1080p or 1200p screen, which is too high of a resolution for the IGPU, and isn't really required because it supports Virtual Super Resolution, which would let people experience a 1080p or 1200p desktop size and scaling on a 720p or 768p screen and probably not even know the difference.
It doesn't need to be brushed aluminum and packed with optical drives either, a simple expansoin slot so I can later upgrade to having both an OS SSD and large storage HDD or BDROM would be my choice anyway. Actually, an empty NVME slot that can be my boot drive, 1tb or 500gb mechanical HDD and BDROM would be my ideal choice. Hell, you could sell it with a single 8gb DDR4 stick as long as you also sold the dual channel "3d gamer ready" upgrade stick I could buy for it later.
Seriously, a single 8gb ddr4 stick, mechanical hdd, bd rom, empty NVME slot I can boot from, and option to buy the pairing dual channel stick later for 16gb, and a 15" 720p screen running Virtual Super Resolution 1080p would be my ideal setup, made out of cheap plastic and having enough heat-pipes to keep it adequately cooled at turbo speeds again maybe the 2nd fan could kick on only while it's plugged in. If I could buy that for about 350$ I would fucking wait in line like an Apple fanboy to pick one up.
Having the dGPU that can enable Hybrid Crossfire with it while it's plugged into the wall would be the icing on the cake but isn't mandatory.. I would rather keep costs around 350$ but I'm sure there would be a market for something like that if it only added another 50$ or so. It would create a pretty nice gaming setup while being plugged in especially if Bristol Ridge pairs up with the 360 or 360x or 370.
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yankeeDDL - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I own one laptop with Kaveri and one with Carrizo and honestly, I think they are tremendous values for the money. I don't think that Bristol Ridge will be worth waiting for, but if it helps having a few more options with AMD inside, I think it'll be good for everybody: more competition always helps.Personally, I find these a good choice for "multi purpose" home PC/laptops. Casual gaming is solid and the rest of the performance is good. Yes, it falls short of Intel's in terms of sheer CPU speed and power efficiency, but you'd be hard pressed to see a difference unless you do heavy encoding. But you get the benefit of a good GPU on AMD platform and, usually, lower prices.
beginner99 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Problem is most if these system ship with single-channel memory and not the top-line APU. The later means the GPU mostly isn't that much better anymore than intels. If you actually manage to find the top-sku with dual.channel memory, price wise your in intel i5 + nv dGPU area. And this combo just beats an APU by a huge margin. Battery life might suffer a bit but doesn't really matter for "home laptop". Mobile dGPUs still are just a lot faster than iGPU especially under throttling scenarios and in these AMD APUs can actually also become CPU limited.AMD is just too slow. If you can combine the APU with a dGPU and the dGPU is only used for 3D heavy apps, then it gets more useful (turn CrossFire on/off). But as it seems AMD just betting on game developers to implement heterogeneous multi-gpu in dx12 correctly.
azazel1024 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I think some of it is the single channel issue with AMD laptops, but I think the other is, in the same power space, Intel has generally caught up to AMD by in large in terms of performance, if not a little better. Intel's Skylake GPUs in the 15w space and especially in the 4.5w space are far and away faster than the AMD offerings, especially when you factor in the single versus dual channel memory issues. In the 35/45w space, it is often the case to, especially with Intel's eDRAM offerings vs what AMD has on tap.Go back a generation or two and that wouldn't necessarily be the case, but Intel has narrowed the GPU performance gap each generation (and frankly, even 2-3 generations ago, AMD's 17w and below offerings are horribly anemic for CPU and GPU, the 35-45w AMD offerings were below Intel in CPU, but generally had better GPU because there weren't nearly the same power constraint issues).
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - link
I'm sure AMD being stuck on 28nm has not helped things much.EagleEye5 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
For what it's worth, I have an A10-7400p kaveri laptop and the performance is really great, much better than AMD is showing in their graphs. For example, I get a score of 1900 in 3d mark 11 (amd's graphs show ~1400), and for cinebench 15 I get 201, theirs show 145 or so.The laptop came with only single channel ram, but for $35, I added a second stick and it doubled my performance. Also, I disabled turbo core, which also disables cpu and gpu throttling, improving performance by another 20-30% in most tests.
Sure, manufacturers including only single channel ram is a problem, but it's easy to fix by adding a second stick. However, while it's highly likely to work for kaveri, some carrizo motherboards don't physically have the second channel on the motherboard which is a problem.
EagleEye5 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
It's also worth noting that my laptop was only $400, probably one of the best deals out there for cost/perf ratioAlexvrb - Wednesday, April 6, 2016 - link
I expect the single-channel-only mainboard trend will continue. I hope I'm wrong, but as you said some shared Puma/Carrizo boards did not support a second memory channel regardless of the APU used or number of physical slots.I would be very surprised to see disabling turbo core benefiting anything but benchmarks. In typical use, it improves overall user experience with short bursts of high speeds. Plus if you're not running a GPU load, it should give more headroom for higher CPU clocks. Then again that's a higher-TDP model and base clocks are already fairly high. Disabling it on the 20W or below models (or configurable TDP models that OEMs typically configure around 15W) would probably have a larger (and mostly negative) impact. Either way I hope Bristol Ridge and beyond continues to refine turbo core with improved granularity.
EagleEye5 - Wednesday, April 6, 2016 - link
Yeah the single channel motherboards are a real issue. One of the main reasons I chose a kaveri laptop over carrizo is to have that guaranteed dual channel support.As for the turbo core performance, as you said it's good for burst tasks such as loading up games/programs or zipping/unzipping files, etc. However, it is terrible for sustained load in games. The stock speed of the a10-7400p is 2.5ghz and with turbo core on it turbos up to 3.0-3.5ghz for burst tasks. However, in games it starts at 3.5ghz, then throttles all the way down to 1.4ghz after playing for a few minutes. This is with a 35w tdp part too. For example, in tomb raider (not rise of), just standing still in a particular scene can start with 50-55 fps, then I can watch the frame rate gradually degrade until it hits 25 or so. With turbo core disabled, it hovers at a constant 45 fps without fluctuating; the clock speed stays at a constant 2.5ghz. The igpu clock stays at a constant 655mhz as well, it would throttle down to 400-500mhz with turbo core enabled. Disabling turbo core has clear real world impact.
Disabling turbo core also seems to raise the tdp cap, but nothing too crazy. With turbo core enabled, the temperature caps at about 63C, whereas disabling turbo core raises the temp to 73 or so, which really isn't that bad for the significant performance boost.
yankeeDDL - Wednesday, April 6, 2016 - link
Actually, most laptops use K10 APUs, which are at the top of their line.I have a Toshiba with the A10 7800P which costed me around 450usd. Granted is not high-end, but it handles games with ease (for an iGPU): better than anything Intel has to offer.
And the CPU gap is not noticeable on everyday tasks: it is nearly impossible to max out the CPU unless you are doing some specific coding/compression.
medi03 - Thursday, April 7, 2016 - link
Except that the only perf demanding things most people can throw at their notebooks are actually games.For most other uses your CPU is sitting there idle and whether it is 3% load at idle, or 5%, doesn't change a thing.
Going with discrete GPU results in major price increase.
nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
14nm Zen should improve CPU/compute in laptops so much that it will allow AMD to be used for what you would prefer Intel for previously. Even if 40% IPC improvement is an exaggeration, the improvement will be tangible. It could also get a really nice boost in graphics... like double the performance or better. Skipping 20nm is a big deal. Now we just have to wait another year for it.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - link
AMD better mandate dual channel memory this time aroundHollyDOL - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Seeing the first picture (with the chips photo) the first idea in my mind was like 'wtf that's as huge as floor tile'.extide - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I'd love a high res version of that pic with all the die shots. I love die shots and it's cool to see the progression. Although, I think it's weird that AMD is counting Beema as an entire generation when it is technically the lower end line, isn't it, compared to the rest of them? Oh well.artk2219 - Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - link
Id love a die thats as big as a floor tile, zero real world use but damn could i use a new space heaterPissedoffyouth - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I'd love an AMD replacement for my A10-7800. Hopefully soon!jjj - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Stoney Ridge should be a lot more interesting, if it's cheap enough.psychobriggsy - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I think this pretty much matches what everyone was expecting really. Sure, some people hoped for more, but even for them it was just hopes (14nm, 16CU, etc).10% over Carrizo is good for laptops (especially if they are dual-channel ...).
And it's good to see Kaveri finally buried on the desktop. The 50% improvement is probably mostly from the improved power management, letting the chip run faster for longer at lower temperatures.
For the price they are very good chips. And at least AM4 will come with compatibility with future Zen SoCs.
extide - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Yeah ... we will not be seeing 14nm CPU's or APU's from AMD until Zen, and for APU's we still have a good year's wait.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
"Pre-announces!"Apple announces an iPad and a few days later you can pre-order. A few days after that it's ready to go.
shadarlo - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Comparing a producer of the end-user products with a company that makes one component of a product that other manufacturers use....Fanboy is strong in this one.
Odo2016 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
This. "Despite AMD quoting a 50% gain in Cinebench compared to Kaveri, AMD’s strengths in the notebook line are partly due to the integrated graphics, which historically gets a boost from faster memory. Although this depends on the underlying design by the OEM, as we detailed in our Carrizo OEM overview that pointed the finger at base single channel memory designs being the norm at retail, rather than dual channel." Toshiba, HP, ASUS, Acer, and Lenovo, are you listening? STOP CONFIGURING AMD APU LAPTOPS WITH SLOW, SINGLE-CHANNEL, RAM! ALSO, STOP THROTTLING THE APUS TO GET BETTER BATTERY LIFE!Also, I hate when charts appear to show a four-fold increase in performance when looking at the lengths of the bars, but when you look at the numbers, it's really only 1/8th of that. So misleading.
As usual, the information was very good. I just wish manufacturers would pay attention to Anand's articles.
epobirs - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Just not going to happen. The AMD APUs are mainly used to target the low end, where price is everything. Shipping with a single channel populated is part of that. The real damage is from designs that have no provision for populating the second channel.azazel1024 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Actually, if it is solely based on the graphs, Bristol is only 7% "better" or faster or whatever than Carrizo. 10% better it is not. It is supposedly up to 50% better than Kaveri and Carrizo is up to 140% better than Kaveri. 1.5/1.4 = 1.07. 7% faster or better or whatever.Which, granted, is as much as an Intel generation these days. But still marketing speak to try to make it seem even better. The other question is, how much of that is a gain because of DDR4? I assume that is factored in to that 7% gain.
nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Actually the Bristol Ridge bar looks closer to 1.55. 1.55/1.4 = 1.107.ET - Wednesday, April 6, 2016 - link
The actual value from the press release is +56.09%. The Carrizo score isn't mentioned there though (but the image does look like +40%). That said, it's all for the 15W scenario. Not that another 10% at 15W is bad.webdoctors - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
I was gonna make a joke about where can you actually buy a decent AMD Laptop, but it looks like Amazon sells some:http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-15-6-inch-Performance...
Not clear if the 1 hr battery life in the reviews are true.
vortmax2 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
That one is not dual-channel according to reviewers.Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
They need to force OEMs to use both memory channels... or else those cheapskates wont.epobirs - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
How do you propose they do that? AMD is desperate for business and could not survive dictating design to customers they know full well are looking to fill the low end of their product line.hamoboy - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Their single channel designs were meant for Jaguar cores. They can make it so their single channel motherboard designs only work with Jaguar cores.zodiacfml - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
Dual channel is nice if you're into gaming or using the compute capability of the GPU. Otherwise, single channel will suffice and one can search and buy the similar RAM stick inside the device.Unfortunately for AMD, all these innovation is for nothing because of Intel's superior process technology. I just hope they can catch up with the help of Samsung.
nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
An AMD APU is a good value for cheap laptops. Unfortunately, Bristol Ridge is a terrible buy with 14nm around the corner.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 5, 2016 - link
"How do you propose they do that? AMD is desperate for business and could not survive dictating design to customers they know full well are looking to fill the low end of their product line."They could but they won't. And it's not for that reason.
linuxisfree - Saturday, April 9, 2016 - link
It seems AMD is really drunk with generating hype and making promises lately. They created the Vulkan API and were the last company to have a graphics driver that actually supported it. Linux users are still waiting to have an official driver release that supports more than just the 390. Please hire some developers so your hardware has some drivers that weren't written by freelance fans in the community.jules2416 - Saturday, April 9, 2016 - link
"AMD on the desktop has confirmed that Bristol Ridge and the upcoming Summit Ridge APUs featuring a brand new microarchitecture design will share a platform."I thought they confirmed that Zen Cpus fit into AM4. Did they say anything about Zen APUs? Low-performance APUs I take for granted. But what about high-performance? Because if they release a 150-200 W, 8 core, R9-graphics high-performance APU with HBM2 shared between CPU and GPU, will that work on AM4?
UtilityMax - Monday, April 11, 2016 - link
Eventually, these APUs will find their way into bargain basement junk laptops with 768p screens and single channel memory. How exciting.Bleakwise - Sunday, April 24, 2016 - link
Bristol Ridge is being hugely underestimated for a few reasons.First of all, it's moving to DDR4 from DDR3. Charrizo was starved for memory bandwidth, it needed more and DDR4 will provide that.
Second of all, Bristol Ridge has the Delta Compression technology from Tonga on it. This provides about a 50% boost to memory bandwidth to the APU. So all in all we're looking at about 180% to 240% the memory bandwidth from low end DDR3.
Last but not least, it's more power efficient. This means that it won't need as large of a heat-sink or as many heat-pipes or fans to keep the CPU/APU cooled. This also translates into better battery life.
The one catch will be the same thing that caught Charizzo. They're meant to be low price bang for the buck, not ultra budget PCs and manufactures don't seem to understand that a Charrizo with 16gb dual channel LPDDR3 2133 will cost less and outperform a similar priced single channel i3 and 940m dedicated GPU and do so while requiring either a cheaper battery or providing longer battery life, which would let them make their money back and then some simply by raising the MSRP form 300 to 350$.
Sadly, manufacturers I've seen who do Charrizo right also pair it with a bunch of crap you don't need, like a 1080p or 1200p screen, which is too high of a resolution for the IGPU, and isn't really required because it supports Virtual Super Resolution, which would let people experience a 1080p or 1200p desktop size and scaling on a 720p or 768p screen and probably not even know the difference.
It doesn't need to be brushed aluminum and packed with optical drives either, a simple expansoin slot so I can later upgrade to having both an OS SSD and large storage HDD or BDROM would be my choice anyway. Actually, an empty NVME slot that can be my boot drive, 1tb or 500gb mechanical HDD and BDROM would be my ideal choice. Hell, you could sell it with a single 8gb DDR4 stick as long as you also sold the dual channel "3d gamer ready" upgrade stick I could buy for it later.
Seriously, a single 8gb ddr4 stick, mechanical hdd, bd rom, empty NVME slot I can boot from, and option to buy the pairing dual channel stick later for 16gb, and a 15" 720p screen running Virtual Super Resolution 1080p would be my ideal setup, made out of cheap plastic and having enough heat-pipes to keep it adequately cooled at turbo speeds again maybe the 2nd fan could kick on only while it's plugged in. If I could buy that for about 350$ I would fucking wait in line like an Apple fanboy to pick one up.
Having the dGPU that can enable Hybrid Crossfire with it while it's plugged into the wall would be the icing on the cake but isn't mandatory.. I would rather keep costs around 350$ but I'm sure there would be a market for something like that if it only added another 50$ or so. It would create a pretty nice gaming setup while being plugged in especially if Bristol Ridge pairs up with the 360 or 360x or 370.