This sounds very nice for "good enough" SSDs. I'd just like it paired with a controller as good as Samsungs, married to a M.2 interface. Sandisks current TLC SSDs are not very encouraging in comparison.
I don't even care if they keep pricing M.2 drives at a premium because I'm just gonna use a small M.2 for my boot drive, and then larger SATA drives I can RAID together for data... Going all SSD this year, goodbye spinners.
I do wonder tho, going forwarded, do they intend to saddle desktop owners with mobile interfaces indefinitely or is there another SATA replacement on horizon besides Express? Does U.2 make any provision for cabled interconnects?
Sandisk will be using 3D first in removable storage(SD cards, USB drives) and will take a while before using it in SSDs. They go TLC first and that capacity because of the market this first chip addresses. It's small enough to fit in a microSD and TLC is just fine for that market without much of a controller.
Looked it up- U.2 is the consumer-friendly name for SFF-8639, PCIe x4 over a mini-SAS cable (not signal-related to SAS, just reusing the commodity connector)
I thought my original post was self explanatory. My problem isn't with a brand, nor other 3D NAND, you need a good controller, good cache AND competitive pricing if you want to beat Samsung's TLC offering... No bias, no BS, and no smartass intended.
Except you've competely ignored the fact that other manufacturers could build a good controller. The Samsung controller doesn't have a lot of fancy IP, it's mostly an off the shelf 3 core ARM unit. Other manufacturers already do SLC caching, and you can't just discount their firmware efforts by pointing at current benchmarks as those drives are underperforming in other areas. The Crucial drives give pretty decent competition to the Samsung drives already.
Again, you're completely off. Not point at all. Look at the competing TLC offering(s); performance, price, and value... They're perfectly capable of at least getting similar results, but they're not. Whatever SLC caching they're doing on their TLC ain't working. Therefore, nothing's worth looking at, when TLC is concerned, except for Samsung's offering ATM.
I'm honestly curious, what other TLC SSD would you recommend (maybe even to yourself)?
Except not everyone cares about price AND insist on using TLC as much as you do. I'd pick any other company and/or pay a bit more money for MLC before I go with them, and it's not because of stubborn bias/faboyism.
If they "could" do these things why don't they? How does Samsung offer an SSD that is one of the cheapest yet one of the fastest on the market? If other OEMs could do this, why wouldn't they?
The reason Samsung can do this, is that they are a "Vertical" company. They have their own foundries, manufacturing and distribution. They do not need to rely on 3rd party and pay "extra" costs. So they control the whole chain. I hope that answers your question, same as Intel for example too... start of die to finished product.
Thanks for tallying up where all the players stand, it's exactly what I was wondering after the first paragraph...
Looks like it'll be a few more months until we see any pricing impact due to new 3D NAND sources... Hopefully I can find a cheaper 1TB EVO by year's end, should've just bought the second one when Newegg had them at $310 on eBay.
I suspect that by the end of 2016, we'll find 1TB drives pushing $250, and 2TB drives pushing $475. Still much higher than HDDs, but low enough for many more people to come on board.
A ton of NAND and memory technology announcements occurring these days. I'd like to see more technology coming to market, instead of just announcements.
The industry is in the midst of the transition to 3D NAND, which is the most significant technology change that has occurred in the time that flash has been affordable enough for consumer applications. On a smaller timescale, Flash Memory Summit is next week. It's the time of year for announcements like this, just like you'd expect to see a lot of TV and video camera announcements around NAB Show.
The Intel/Micron 3D XPoint announcement was pretty out of the blue, but I suspect they had wide leeway for when to announce it. They probably could have announced it this spring or this winter and it wouldn't have made much difference, but last week was when they could upstage the most stuff coming from their competitors.
What's with all the drama in the comments section? SSDs are like the envious and weak siblings of 3d crosspoint we need more of them to take 3d xpoint down a peg or two in price. That or something similar or better in reliability and speed.
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MrSpadge - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
This sounds very nice for "good enough" SSDs. I'd just like it paired with a controller as good as Samsungs, married to a M.2 interface. Sandisks current TLC SSDs are not very encouraging in comparison.Samus - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Wow, if my math is right that means 512GiB per chip!?extide - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
No, 256Gbit = 32GBytes384Gb = 48GB
Kristian Vättö - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
I think he meant per package. Currently 16 dies can be stacked in volume production, so 16x32GiB=512GiB.Impulses - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
I don't even care if they keep pricing M.2 drives at a premium because I'm just gonna use a small M.2 for my boot drive, and then larger SATA drives I can RAID together for data... Going all SSD this year, goodbye spinners.I do wonder tho, going forwarded, do they intend to saddle desktop owners with mobile interfaces indefinitely or is there another SATA replacement on horizon besides Express? Does U.2 make any provision for cabled interconnects?
jjj - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Sandisk will be using 3D first in removable storage(SD cards, USB drives) and will take a while before using it in SSDs. They go TLC first and that capacity because of the market this first chip addresses. It's small enough to fit in a microSD and TLC is just fine for that market without much of a controller.KateH - Friday, August 7, 2015 - link
Unless I'm mistaken, U.2 *is* the cabled interconnect standard. Provides 4x PCIe lanes over a cable similar to SATA.KateH - Friday, August 7, 2015 - link
Looked it up- U.2 is the consumer-friendly name for SFF-8639, PCIe x4 over a mini-SAS cable (not signal-related to SAS, just reusing the commodity connector)lilmoe - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
None of these will come close to the 850 EVO. Not because of the controller alone, but because of SLC cache.hojnikb - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Because sammy is the only one with "SLC" cache..lilmoe - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Numbers don't lie, really.Drumsticks - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
What's your point though? Samsung doesn't have a monopoly on the know-how or capability to do a TLC drive with an SLC cache.lilmoe - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
I thought my original post was self explanatory. My problem isn't with a brand, nor other 3D NAND, you need a good controller, good cache AND competitive pricing if you want to beat Samsung's TLC offering... No bias, no BS, and no smartass intended.Gigaplex - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Except you've competely ignored the fact that other manufacturers could build a good controller. The Samsung controller doesn't have a lot of fancy IP, it's mostly an off the shelf 3 core ARM unit. Other manufacturers already do SLC caching, and you can't just discount their firmware efforts by pointing at current benchmarks as those drives are underperforming in other areas. The Crucial drives give pretty decent competition to the Samsung drives already.lilmoe - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Again, you're completely off. Not point at all. Look at the competing TLC offering(s); performance, price, and value... They're perfectly capable of at least getting similar results, but they're not. Whatever SLC caching they're doing on their TLC ain't working. Therefore, nothing's worth looking at, when TLC is concerned, except for Samsung's offering ATM.I'm honestly curious, what other TLC SSD would you recommend (maybe even to yourself)?
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
MLCchrnochime - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
Except not everyone cares about price AND insist on using TLC as much as you do. I'd pick any other company and/or pay a bit more money for MLC before I go with them, and it's not because of stubborn bias/faboyism.upsidedownfunnel - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
If they "could" do these things why don't they? How does Samsung offer an SSD that is one of the cheapest yet one of the fastest on the market? If other OEMs could do this, why wouldn't they?Aries1470 - Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - link
The reason Samsung can do this, is that they are a "Vertical" company. They have their own foundries, manufacturing and distribution. They do not need to rely on 3rd party and pay "extra" costs. So they control the whole chain. I hope that answers your question, same as Intel for example too... start of die to finished product.Impulses - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
Thanks for tallying up where all the players stand, it's exactly what I was wondering after the first paragraph...Looks like it'll be a few more months until we see any pricing impact due to new 3D NAND sources... Hopefully I can find a cheaper 1TB EVO by year's end, should've just bought the second one when Newegg had them at $310 on eBay.
melgross - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
I suspect that by the end of 2016, we'll find 1TB drives pushing $250, and 2TB drives pushing $475. Still much higher than HDDs, but low enough for many more people to come on board.yuhong - Tuesday, August 4, 2015 - link
And if that happens hopefully SSDs will be standard in OEM machines by then.mapesdhs - Thursday, August 6, 2015 - link
So much for SanDisk saying they wanted to produce 8TB SSDs within two years. Oh well.Aries1470 - Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - link
Theoretically, they can ;-) Price wise etc, um.. not sure.Dark_Archonis - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
A ton of NAND and memory technology announcements occurring these days. I'd like to see more technology coming to market, instead of just announcements.Billy Tallis - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
The industry is in the midst of the transition to 3D NAND, which is the most significant technology change that has occurred in the time that flash has been affordable enough for consumer applications. On a smaller timescale, Flash Memory Summit is next week. It's the time of year for announcements like this, just like you'd expect to see a lot of TV and video camera announcements around NAB Show.The Intel/Micron 3D XPoint announcement was pretty out of the blue, but I suspect they had wide leeway for when to announce it. They probably could have announced it this spring or this winter and it wouldn't have made much difference, but last week was when they could upstage the most stuff coming from their competitors.
at80eighty - Wednesday, August 5, 2015 - link
welcome to anandtech Billy - looking forward to more indepth articles soonSo last century - Saturday, August 8, 2015 - link
What's with all the drama in the comments section? SSDs are like the envious and weak siblings of 3d crosspoint we need more of them to take 3d xpoint down a peg or two in price. That or something similar or better in reliability and speed.