They should make Windows use micropayment model, similar to all those Flash games, Farmville and such. Pay $2 for a 10-pack of fuel cans to automate your chores. Ask you friends to send you supplies to expand your desktop to a new resolution.
So, is the upgrade free for life on the devices one chooses to upgrade, or is it like a free trial in that you get to try it and then you pay after a year? From what I'm reading here it's free period, but other articles have been... misleading.
There's a 1 year period following the launch of Windows 10 when you can upgrade to it for free with an existing Windows 7/8.1 license. So yes, you can get Windows 10 for free as long as you upgrade to it within the first year.
Personally I wasn't expecting anything this good. I was thinking maybe 8.1 users might get a free upgrade if they're lucky, but probably something more like a price reduction, and never did I even consider a free upgrade for 7 users a possibility. Don't really know the details behind the upgrade program yet, but I think this is a really good move from Microsoft.
They've also said that Windows upgrades will be free forever for the devices you get Windows 10 for. The language is a little odd but it certainly seems like any Windows license you get is now good for all current and future versions of Windows.
The move to 10 from 7 enables a lot of opportunity for BING through cortana and Windows app development. Development that leads to paid app revenue through its store.
I thought Apple would be the first to an app being able to run on all device types. It looks like MS will do it.
"an app being able to run on all device types" An app being able to run on all device types is, in and of itself, a pretty silly and limited goal. We've had that for years with web pages, and before web pages we had it with Swing and AWT, and before that we had it with X-Windows and its various toolkits. And what was the result? In every case, people hated it because no-one wants some half-assed app thats kinda sorta like a real app, but not really.
The difficulty in writing a quality app is not in the backend (which can be written in vanilla C++ and can run anyway), it's in creating a quality UI that takes maximum advantage of the PARTICULAR features of the target, whether that target is a phone, a tablet, or a keyboard+pointing device (or, soon, a watch). MS can't magically make that an easier problem. All they can do is make it possible for an app to run in all the environments, but that does NOT make the app run WELL in all the environments. Compare with iOS phone apps that run scaled up on an iPad, or Android phone apps that run (scaled up in a different way) on Android tablets. They both work, yes; and they both suck. And that's just scaling (without the developer putting in any effort) across touch devices; it gets FAR worse when a pointing device-based app tries to run (without any real effort made in the port) on a touch device, or vice versa.
All MS can do is provide what are essentially the same APIs across devices. Which is, oh my, (basically) EXACTLY the same thing that Apple does. (And, I assume, what Google will do once they finally get their act together and decide how they're going to unify ChromeOS and Android.) iOS and OSX started life as pretty much identical at the lowest levels, and with the IOS frameworks an updated version of the OSX frameworks stripped either of crud that was realized to be a bad idea, or of complications irrelevant to a small device. Since then, they've only gotten closer as OSX frameworks are reconstructed in the iOS fashion. I expect that, as the frameworks are ported to native Swift, the unification will become pretty much complete.
There is a lot more to it than what you are saying. Yes, the APIs need to be on all platforms, which it appears they finally will be with this release. But you are right, you can't have a single app run on all platforms without compromise. That's why a Universal app is not that. It's got common code, but you can add different UIs based on different device types. The backend is the same and the UI is different, but they are all the same "app" in the store, so if you buy once on the phone, you can also use on the desktop and Xbox etc.
I've had Windows 8.1 crap out on me twice now, the point where I couldn't do a rollback or repair. I had to start over. My windows disk is an original 8 disk and I cannot install 8.1 directly because my CD key won't work.
Will this 10 upgrade be the same? They really should make all the old windows keys work so that I can get a 10 image for a flash drive or DVD or something so that I don't have to go through that obnoxious process if I need to re-install the OS.
I've heard rumblings that the latest download of 8.1 allows 8.0 keys entered. I have not confirmed this myself. This is a valid concern though I'll be sure to bring it up when I get a chance.
Wow, that's great news, and yeah another huge blow to AMD and Mantle.
Oh, and one less reason to believe anything that comes out of bullshit artist Richard Huddy's mouth. I wonder if they threw 7 in there just to spite him. Multi-billion dollar loss just to discredit that used car salesman. :D
I certainly don't disapprove of "free" upgrades but the slow uptake of Windows 8 was never about cost.
If Windows 10 end up being a useful upgrade for me, something 8 never did, I'd be more than comfortable paying for it. If it isn't then "free" won't really matter.
Also, it seems that Valve's Boss was right, Windows is in its way to be as OS X, they are trying to exclude 3rd party apps distribution systems and make that all new apps use what was W8 new apps system. Walled Gardens all over the place.
More than ever, time to stay with previous Windows versions...or move on to Linux soon.
I wonder how confused Joe Average will be when we have OS-X and MS-X version numbers clashing (e.g. feature comparison of 10.9 to 10.1)? I also wonder if Mickey Soft will name releases based on big cats, or will they go for big dogs instead?
Is it known whether you need to have a current install of 7/8 in order to get the free update, or can you do a clean install of 10 and use your 7/8 key to activate the license?
It seems I will still be staying away from a new version of Windows (hugs his Windows 7). I don't want the tiled look at all, I don't care if you give me a start menu excuse, my PC is NOT a tablet. I also don't want their walled off apps.
There is literally no software that you can run on Windows 7 that won't run on 10, so the thought that you're stuck with "walled off" apps if you move is simply wrong.
As for the tile thing, give it a rest. If you're seriously going to refuse to update (for free) because of some tiles in your start menu, you're beyond being reasoned with. And the start menu is customizable; you don't have to have tiles in there if you don't want.
This blows my mind, though in some ways isn't surprising. I vastly prefer Windows to any other OS though so I hope this shift doesn't eventually lead to breaking things I love about Windows like it's backwards compatibility and well thought out interface. The pointless yearly updates that Apple feels compelled to do seem gimmicky and broken most of the time...
I'm wondering how they'll handle Pro though...assuming there will even be different versions of 10. Like do you only get 10 "home/basic" free, and have to pay for a Pro upgrade even coming from 8.1 Pro? Oh well, either way that'll still be cheaper, and nice considering I'm running more PCs now than ever (and planning on getting at least one or two Windows Tablets soonish too, to replace Android and my iPad 2)
My guess is that that's the plan for the revenue model --- home/basic is free (to get the developers on board for a large volume of users) but enterprise features will cost. The question then is, what counts as enterprise features, now and going forward? (Compare with how Intel does something similar for x86.)
FOR EXAMPLE MS could consider something like multicast TCP as an enterprise feature, which could be pretty irritating for home users, especially if performance features like that are all you really want, not all the additional Active Directory and server stuff. Similarly maybe support for a maximum of (4? 6? 8?) CPUs, each with two hyperthreads, maybe a maximum amount of memory supported, maybe even a maximum amount of storage supported?
Last version of Windows? Skynet will become self-aware in six months. :)
The real question is do you need Windows 10? Do you WANT Windows 10? If so, great, get it. "Free" - The ultimate example of something you don't need at a price you can't refuse. Here is another; I want to give you a rufie, will you eat it?
I don't want more problems, I want consistency. Consistency with what is up to the user. That was the main problem with Win8, it did not give the user a choice.
A big question for windows 7 users. If I need to do a complete reformat and reload after 1 year or longer down the road, will I be able to ?????????? Will microsoft allow us to download a copy to a DVD???????????? What is the actual reality after one year????????
Also, will the license be tied to the device? They refer to the life of the device which implies once converted to 10 it becomes the equivalent of an OEM license.
Have you seen how reformatting works on Windows 8? There is no DVD used, you simply select reformat from within the Windows environment and it does a "system restore" type thing. Basically the same way it has worked on OSX and other platforms.
What is the definition of "supported over the lifetime of the device" Is it the lifetime of the device I own as long as it works or is it when the manufacturer no longer provides support. The later is just usually a few years.
I presume this means I have to have Windows 7 on my machine to perform the upgrade to Windows 10. I always prefer a clean install of an OS rather than an upgrade
a) Does this mean if I want to reinstall at a later date I have to install 7 before I can update to 10?
b) what happens if I want to reinstall after the 12 months is over?
I would reinstall 7 right before 10 releases. Then again, once 10 is installed, 7 will go to Windows.OLD as usual, so there may be no need.
Considering reinstalling, with 7 and 8 there was a deployment program by MS that copied your license information and allowed to autoactivate on reinstall. I don`t remember the name, though.
Does anyone know if the Windows 10 upgrade will work for OEM Win 7 licenses? We use the Volume Licensing Service Center, and I can't even get an upgrade license from Windows7 Home Premium to Pro with out a complete system install, necessitating a complete backup and reinstall of all other software and data.
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Scabies - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
Talk about the headset!ToTTenTranz - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
Windows is now Free-to-Play!J/K
geekman1024 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
With in-app purchase, too!Kutark - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I wonder if they will sell purely cosmetic items or P2W stuff in the cash shop?Visual - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
yeah, the analogy with free to play but pay to win is all too strong here...vred - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
They should make Windows use micropayment model, similar to all those Flash games, Farmville and such.Pay $2 for a 10-pack of fuel cans to automate your chores.
Ask you friends to send you supplies to expand your desktop to a new resolution.
Brett Howse - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
IRL I would gladly pay $2 to automate my chores :)meacupla - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
I hope they stamp out the driver bugs, that are practically guaranteed to be there when updating to a new OS, before the 1yr is up.powerarmour - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
MS has now realized that you can't really charge for an operating system anymore when Google has basically been giving them away...jt122333221 - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
So, is the upgrade free for life on the devices one chooses to upgrade, or is it like a free trial in that you get to try it and then you pay after a year? From what I'm reading here it's free period, but other articles have been... misleading.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
The former. Think Macs.dragonsqrrl - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
There's a 1 year period following the launch of Windows 10 when you can upgrade to it for free with an existing Windows 7/8.1 license. So yes, you can get Windows 10 for free as long as you upgrade to it within the first year.Personally I wasn't expecting anything this good. I was thinking maybe 8.1 users might get a free upgrade if they're lucky, but probably something more like a price reduction, and never did I even consider a free upgrade for 7 users a possibility. Don't really know the details behind the upgrade program yet, but I think this is a really good move from Microsoft.
Ikefu - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
They've also said that Windows upgrades will be free forever for the devices you get Windows 10 for. The language is a little odd but it certainly seems like any Windows license you get is now good for all current and future versions of Windows.eanazag - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
I'm sure it will behave like an OEM license where if you change enough hardware it wants to activate again.eanazag - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
The move to 10 from 7 enables a lot of opportunity for BING through cortana and Windows app development. Development that leads to paid app revenue through its store.I thought Apple would be the first to an app being able to run on all device types. It looks like MS will do it.
name99 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
"an app being able to run on all device types"An app being able to run on all device types is, in and of itself, a pretty silly and limited goal.
We've had that for years with web pages, and before web pages we had it with Swing and AWT, and before that we had it with X-Windows and its various toolkits.
And what was the result? In every case, people hated it because no-one wants some half-assed app thats kinda sorta like a real app, but not really.
The difficulty in writing a quality app is not in the backend (which can be written in vanilla C++ and can run anyway), it's in creating a quality UI that takes maximum advantage of the PARTICULAR features of the target, whether that target is a phone, a tablet, or a keyboard+pointing device (or, soon, a watch). MS can't magically make that an easier problem. All they can do is make it possible for an app to run in all the environments, but that does NOT make the app run WELL in all the environments. Compare with iOS phone apps that run scaled up on an iPad, or Android phone apps that run (scaled up in a different way) on Android tablets. They both work, yes; and they both suck. And that's just scaling (without the developer putting in any effort) across touch devices; it gets FAR worse when a pointing device-based app tries to run (without any real effort made in the port) on a touch device, or vice versa.
All MS can do is provide what are essentially the same APIs across devices. Which is, oh my, (basically) EXACTLY the same thing that Apple does. (And, I assume, what Google will do once they finally get their act together and decide how they're going to unify ChromeOS and Android.)
iOS and OSX started life as pretty much identical at the lowest levels, and with the IOS frameworks an updated version of the OSX frameworks stripped either of crud that was realized to be a bad idea, or of complications irrelevant to a small device. Since then, they've only gotten closer as OSX frameworks are reconstructed in the iOS fashion. I expect that, as the frameworks are ported to native Swift, the unification will become pretty much complete.
Brett Howse - Saturday, January 24, 2015 - link
There is a lot more to it than what you are saying. Yes, the APIs need to be on all platforms, which it appears they finally will be with this release. But you are right, you can't have a single app run on all platforms without compromise. That's why a Universal app is not that. It's got common code, but you can add different UIs based on different device types. The backend is the same and the UI is different, but they are all the same "app" in the store, so if you buy once on the phone, you can also use on the desktop and Xbox etc.Here's some info and screenshots http://www.anandtech.com/show/8705/windows-10-tech...
SmCaudata - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
I've had Windows 8.1 crap out on me twice now, the point where I couldn't do a rollback or repair. I had to start over. My windows disk is an original 8 disk and I cannot install 8.1 directly because my CD key won't work.Will this 10 upgrade be the same? They really should make all the old windows keys work so that I can get a 10 image for a flash drive or DVD or something so that I don't have to go through that obnoxious process if I need to re-install the OS.
Brett Howse - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
I've heard rumblings that the latest download of 8.1 allows 8.0 keys entered. I have not confirmed this myself. This is a valid concern though I'll be sure to bring it up when I get a chance.moozoo - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
When will they have Windows 365?I'm also after Visual Studio 365...
ivan256 - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
"Windows 10 could be the last major Windows release, with all future versions being an extension of Windows 10."That sounds familiar....
wavetrex - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
How "suprising", an operating system being free ! *cough*linux/android*cough*Michael Bay - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
Except this will be a good OS.chizow - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Wow, that's great news, and yeah another huge blow to AMD and Mantle.Oh, and one less reason to believe anything that comes out of bullshit artist Richard Huddy's mouth. I wonder if they threw 7 in there just to spite him. Multi-billion dollar loss just to discredit that used car salesman. :D
beginner99 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Then I will for sure wait for Windows 10 for a new build IF this free upgrade also applies to OEM version of Windows 7. That wasn't really answered?Exodite - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I certainly don't disapprove of "free" upgrades but the slow uptake of Windows 8 was never about cost.If Windows 10 end up being a useful upgrade for me, something 8 never did, I'd be more than comfortable paying for it. If it isn't then "free" won't really matter.
AJSB - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
It is NOT FREE !Read the "small letters" carefully !
IF you need to upgrade the PC after the "free" upgrade, you HAVE TO PAY.
AJSB - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Also, it seems that Valve's Boss was right, Windows is in its way to be as OS X, they are trying to exclude 3rd party apps distribution systems and make that all new apps use what was W8 new apps system. Walled Gardens all over the place.More than ever, time to stay with previous Windows versions...or move on to Linux soon.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
Yes, move on to GIMP, ahahaha.gcor - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I wonder how confused Joe Average will be when we have OS-X and MS-X version numbers clashing (e.g. feature comparison of 10.9 to 10.1)? I also wonder if Mickey Soft will name releases based on big cats, or will they go for big dogs instead?MrTeal - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Is it known whether you need to have a current install of 7/8 in order to get the free update, or can you do a clean install of 10 and use your 7/8 key to activate the license?Ahnilated - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
It seems I will still be staying away from a new version of Windows (hugs his Windows 7). I don't want the tiled look at all, I don't care if you give me a start menu excuse, my PC is NOT a tablet. I also don't want their walled off apps.kyuu - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
There is literally no software that you can run on Windows 7 that won't run on 10, so the thought that you're stuck with "walled off" apps if you move is simply wrong.As for the tile thing, give it a rest. If you're seriously going to refuse to update (for free) because of some tiles in your start menu, you're beyond being reasoned with. And the start menu is customizable; you don't have to have tiles in there if you don't want.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
It`s the same crowd that somehow lived with WinXP until 2010 or so.Hopeless.
Wolfpup - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
This blows my mind, though in some ways isn't surprising. I vastly prefer Windows to any other OS though so I hope this shift doesn't eventually lead to breaking things I love about Windows like it's backwards compatibility and well thought out interface. The pointless yearly updates that Apple feels compelled to do seem gimmicky and broken most of the time...I'm wondering how they'll handle Pro though...assuming there will even be different versions of 10. Like do you only get 10 "home/basic" free, and have to pay for a Pro upgrade even coming from 8.1 Pro? Oh well, either way that'll still be cheaper, and nice considering I'm running more PCs now than ever (and planning on getting at least one or two Windows Tablets soonish too, to replace Android and my iPad 2)
name99 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
My guess is that that's the plan for the revenue model --- home/basic is free (to get the developers on board for a large volume of users) but enterprise features will cost. The question then is, what counts as enterprise features, now and going forward? (Compare with how Intel does something similar for x86.)FOR EXAMPLE MS could consider something like multicast TCP as an enterprise feature, which could be pretty irritating for home users, especially if performance features like that are all you really want, not all the additional Active Directory and server stuff.
Similarly maybe support for a maximum of (4? 6? 8?) CPUs, each with two hyperthreads, maybe a maximum amount of memory supported, maybe even a maximum amount of storage supported?
nils_ - Sunday, January 25, 2015 - link
I suppose you're talking about multipath TCP? Enterprise features probably include things like Active Directory, Remote Management and the like.ThisWasATriumph - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
I wonder what video cards will still get driver support for Windows 10. Or whether Windows 10 is backwards compatible with 7 or 8 drivers...Michael Bay - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
Well, at least for now it is.'nar - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Last version of Windows? Skynet will become self-aware in six months. :)The real question is do you need Windows 10? Do you WANT Windows 10? If so, great, get it. "Free" - The ultimate example of something you don't need at a price you can't refuse. Here is another; I want to give you a rufie, will you eat it?
I don't want more problems, I want consistency. Consistency with what is up to the user. That was the main problem with Win8, it did not give the user a choice.
Taurus229 - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
A big question for windows 7 users. If I need to do a complete reformat and reload after 1 year or longer down the road, will I be able to ?????????? Will microsoft allow us to download a copy to a DVD???????????? What is the actual reality after one year????????SilentRunning - Thursday, January 22, 2015 - link
Also, will the license be tied to the device? They refer to the life of the device which implies once converted to 10 it becomes the equivalent of an OEM license.blzd - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Have you seen how reformatting works on Windows 8? There is no DVD used, you simply select reformat from within the Windows environment and it does a "system restore" type thing. Basically the same way it has worked on OSX and other platforms.Mississippian - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
What is the definition of "supported over the lifetime of the device" Is it the lifetime of the device I own as long as it works or is it when the manufacturer no longer provides support. The later is just usually a few years.Coup27 - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
I presume this means I have to have Windows 7 on my machine to perform the upgrade to Windows 10. I always prefer a clean install of an OS rather than an upgradea) Does this mean if I want to reinstall at a later date I have to install 7 before I can update to 10?
b) what happens if I want to reinstall after the 12 months is over?
Michael Bay - Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - link
I would reinstall 7 right before 10 releases. Then again, once 10 is installed, 7 will go to Windows.OLD as usual, so there may be no need.Considering reinstalling, with 7 and 8 there was a deployment program by MS that copied your license information and allowed to autoactivate on reinstall. I don`t remember the name, though.
Jimmy172 - Friday, January 23, 2015 - link
Does anyone know if the Windows 10 upgrade will work for OEM Win 7 licenses? We use the Volume Licensing Service Center, and I can't even get an upgrade license from Windows7 Home Premium to Pro with out a complete system install, necessitating a complete backup and reinstall of all other software and data.