I would like to know whether any flashy futuristic lighting given in the body? if not a tiny LCD screen showing cabinet temperature / CPU temperature at front . Titanium finish (looks atleast) preferable. Please post more images
GTX460 in SLI would've been a better choice however they may have specced this machine before the 460's release. Usually the bean counters set things in stone once they've priced out a system. Are they an option? It's a pretty reasonable price for that configuration however.I imagine the same thing from Alienware would be $6k ;)
The 460's are an option at ibuypower, you can configure the system any way you want to. The last pre-built I bought before I started building my own was an Ibuypower years ago. It was a pretty decent computer and I never had problems with the parts in it.
Here is yet another "System" article that will be lost to history as soon as it drops off the front page because there is no link to the "System" section of the website.
...and they were outstanding to me when I bought my IC7 about a year ago. Mine is flawless and rock solid. They were stout professionals every step of the way and after sales support, even though I haven't had to use it hardly ever was top notch.
Yet another baseless, pointless rant that doesn't contribute to the conversation. Now that I think about it, you should add this post to that list.
I find nothing on a google search other than some irate customers complaining about what I can only believe are personal issues. The vast majority of users seem to like this company. In fact, on reselleratings, they score better than industry average (and by a fairly good amount, at least in the last 6 months).
I can only conclude that you're angry at something, and taking it out in a forum.
I had to return my machine. DOA on shipment, and all of the money I paid extra for (nice cable routing, sound dampining) wasn't there.
At least they refunded my $$$ in full once I complained sufficiently. My story is at: resellerratings. I'm glad I got less lazy and built my own - it was cheaper, had better parts, and has a better build due to me actually caring.
This was a few years ago my PC mobo had gone bad and it was old enough to warrant building a replacement. Shortly after this happened I had a medical emergency and was hospitalized. I saw a PC advertised with IBUYPOWER that had similar specs to what I had in mind to build.
I went ahead and bought the rig from them. When it arrived it was packaged in the box the PC case came in with no interior packaging or anything more that the case itself had to start with. The dual slot video card had not been inserted into the mobo properly and in shipping had damaged the PCI-E slot. The power supply had obviously been installed in the case after the mobo as the builder had pried the sata connectors 90 degrees to fit it in, damaging them as well.
I called IBUYPOWER, to find that getting a CSR on the phone was a whole new exercise in patience. I got them to send me an RM to ship it back finally. The 2nd time it came back it was still packed in the same case box which now had even less packing material. The PC was still unacceptable as the replacement mobo had received the same careless handling. Round 2 with the CSR and the manager himself. Sent it back again 3rd time it came back it had obviously been assembled by a different person it was much better than the previous 2. The packaging still sucked but someone had put some packing in the case and the video card had not destroyed anything this time.
The PC worked ok for maybe 3 months before I had to replace the power supply and video card and ultimately the mobo as well.
Due to my experience with this company I would NEVER buy ANYTHING from them again.
I think the Nvidia 400 series runs too hot. SLI is definitely overkill but you never know what you'll need 3 years from now. I would have only had one video card or gotten 2 less expensive ones such as 2 5770's crossfire. and gotten a 120GB Sandforce SSD drive.
Does anyone know if it has any notable improvements over the original LCLC 240mm? How so exactly? The LCLC 240 was purchasable on it's own in limited volumes, does anyone know if this will be?
I'm interested in knowing this as well. Honestly I thought the overall review was lacking in several areas. The reviewer mentions it was loud and power hungry (calling the overclock amatuerish which I agree with) but doesn't put any data up to support this?
Hopefully it was just forgotten and the article will be updated shortly...
Hmmm.... You don't get emailed if someone responds to your post, that blows!
I'm finding it almost impossible to determine if the 570LX is just a re-badged LCLC 240mm. I strongly suspect it is, & even if it isn't, I guess that's irrelevant if it can't be bought on it's own!
When it's something like the Dell and Acer desktops we've reviewed it's easy enough: these are machines you can recommend to friends and family without tying yourself to their continued maintenance and service.
I find myself tied to the continued maintenance and service of friends and family systems, whether or not I recommend them.
Could you explain this extraordinary statement of yours? If the comments field isn't large enough, perhaps you could write a feature article on the topic.
After reading this review I've checked out ResellerRatings.com, and also checked out the iBuyPower website. And I've also googled them. My gripes with the review and this company:
1) The name is stupid. iBuyPower sounds awful, and will never be taken seriously as a high performance computer manufacturer. It sounds more like the Daewoo of the computer world. They can also be easlily confused for CyberPower (maybe they're the same company?). 2) The configuration as tested costs $2610 + $65 for Ground Shipping, not $2099. Hell, $2099 don't even cover the cost of the parts on NewEgg.com, even considering a couple of rebates and combo discounts. So, why are you guys lying? 3) The cable management that the reviewed system came with cannot be ordered from iBuyPower.com !!! It's called cable sleeving, it's very time consuming, and only the sleeving materials can cost up to $100 for a single computer, plus a day of work to sleeve every and each cable. So why does iBuyPower ship systems with cable sleeving to reviewers??? 4) No pictures from the right side of the computer (the backside behind the motherboard). I bet that it looks like cable spaghetti there. 5) Hailing a 3.5GHz overclock on a Core i7 CPU !? WTF? Any newbie can pull that off. Now a 4.0GHz overclock would have been something worth paying money for. But to pay $80 for a 3.5GHz overclock?
This review sounds like classic advertising. iBuyPower probably shelled out a couple of bucks so that you guys could say nice words about them. What I've found online is more in line with the truth about iBuyPower. They still are a horrible company with horrendous customer service and their builds that they ship to paying customers look nothing like the system that's posted in this review. There are legions of angry customers that got shipped a broken system, after which they had to wait for months for either a refund or in rare cases they got their systems repaired. Ultimately, you'll get what you pay for.
This to iBuyPower: How about you send a system (like you send to your paying customers) to Kyle at [H]ardOCP.com. Those guys are far more truthful and honest about products. As for the iBuyPower review posted here on AnandTech, it is biased beyond belief. Nevertheless, you guys do great work when it comes to scientific articles.
1. Not really my place to judge. 2. MSRP in our press materials listed this unit as $2,099. I was able to pull together a similar configuration for less than two bills at NewEgg. The SSD is $120, the HD is $90, the CPU is $300, case is $160, mobo is $200, GTX 470's are $300 apiece, the (overpriced) PSU is around $180, optical drive is $80, RAM is about $150. Price of materials from NewEgg hits around $2k, which makes this a pretty decent deal from iBuyPower if they're selling this thing at $2,099. If they're not honoring that, then that's another matter entirely. 3. Again, the press materials say they just sleeve the cables as a matter of course. 4. You mean the side of the system that's probably supposed to look like cable spaghetti? Ignoring the fact that the PSU is modular so the only cables connected are the ones that are needed. 5. I didn't hail it. I do believe I said it was lazy. In fact I'm pretty sure I spent the majority of page three griping about it.
If AT is getting paid for this review, I didn't see any of it and no one told me about it.
Maybe I was to harsh with you about this review, because I don't think that it's really your fault. I also don't want you to get me the wrong way, so I will try to explain again:
First of all, there is nothing wrong with getting paid for a review. We see product placement all over the place, from movies to every day life, and it's something that has been practiced since the beginning of the 20th century (Onasis introduced smoking to women as a fashion accessory by having a famous singer smoke on stage - but this is besides the point). My point is that I don't have a problem with anyone getting paid to write nice words about a product, as long as there is some truth to it. Anyway, if you guys didn't get paid to write nice words about iBuyPower (to some extent) I'm sorry for you, because you would have deserved some compensation to write any kind a review about this crappy company.
The system being slow may not have actually been iBuyPower's fault (to some extent). I had 2 X MSI GTX 470 cards in SLI on a MSI X58 Bing Bang XPower motherboard, and the system performance was abysmal at best. After MSI sent me a BETA BIOS the system was running fine. It could be the case here as well. Then again, iBuyPower should have done their homework.
A good reviewer throws the press lease away, and does his/her own investigation. Further more, the proper way to review any system is to order it from the manufacturer, review it and then ask for a refund. Then you will get an actual system that they ship to customers, and not a nicely dressed up system with clean cable management and "free" cable sleeving. Back to the press release, as far as price is concerned, I couldn't configure an identical system on iBuyPower's web site for $2099 with identical specs. It was $2610.
For potential customers: YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR CABLES NICELY SLEEVED BECAUSE IT'S NOT EVEN AN OPTION THAT YOU CAN PURCHASE. IT'S SOMETHING THEY DID FOR THE REVIEW. CLAIMING THAT THEY SLEEVE AS A "MATTER OF COURSE" IS B.S. THEY SIMPLY DON'T DO IT FOR CUSTOMERS.
Sorry about the caps, but I want people to see this. Cable sleeving is labor intensive, and there isn't enough margin in that system to do it. Heck, there isn't enough margin for the 3 Year Warranty either, that's why customers have to cover all the shipping charges, and sometimes even repair charges during the warranty period, but it sure looks cool when you offer 3 years warranty.
The Bottom Line: I wish it was true, I wish that iBuyPower would ship all their systems at a super low price, with a true 3 year warranty, with sleeved cables. I wish that they would put the same amount of work, care and dedication into every system that they ship as they've put in the system in this review, but they simply don't. Why they don't? Because there isn't enough margin to cover all the business expenses, employees, packaging materials, and so on. A couple of hundred bucks won't cover it! Oh, and why I was insisting on the cable sleeving? Because I've done it, and I know how long it takes to do it for a single computer system, especially when it comes to power supply cables. And no, no computer that costs over $2000 should have any kind of cable spaghetti, whether it's visible or not. I would love to believe that this is how iBuyPower ships systems to their customers, but they simply don't. My advice: stay away from them. There are simply enough better companies out there, and if not, you can always build your own. There is plenty of good advice on Anandtech.com about how to build a computer from scratch.
See my post below. As for your other comments, you're apparently having problems reading our review. Nowhere did we suggest this system is slow; it's fast, just like you'd expect from a 3.5GHz Core i7. Regarding cable sleeving, which you appear to have a vendetta going on about, when did you buy a system from them? Have you every purchased one from them, or are you just ranting because they compete with your business? Here's a post from another web site at CES 2010:
"One cool thing iBUYPOWER is doing is the completely sleeved cables on the power supply. This is not just regular sleeving, but every cable is sleeved individually. To understand what I mean check out the photos below. iBUYPOWER will be offering this as an upgrade option on their system for around $50."
Either they're doing it or they aren't, but somehow I suspect that you're not the authority on what iBUYPOWER does or doesn't offer. It's entirely possible that the sleeving comes standard on the Paladin XLC, which would in part explain the slightly higher price compared to some of their other systems.
Please don't accuse people of lying when they're not, and don't accuse people of incorrect pricing when your own pricing is off. If you can't get the price below $2610, you're not trying very hard. And just to be clear, we are not paid by companies to review product -- never have been in all the years I've been here. Sure, we have advertisements on the site, and some of those come from companies whose products we review. However, our review team is totally separate from the marketing team that handles advertisers. In my 6+ years working for AnandTech, I have never been asked to review a product for money, I have never been told to give a product a good review, and I have never even dealt with the advertising side of things.
Don't believe me? Then go try and buy a review from our site. The most you can do is ask us to review a product, and if we feel like doing so we will (mostly based on if we have time and if your product looks interesting). iBUYPOWER, AVADirect, Eurocom, CyberPower, and other smaller companies -- along with big names like ASUS, Dell, HP, Intel, NVIDIA, AMD, etc. -- are all at the same level. We ask them for products, or they ask us to review something, and that's about it. If a product performs well and is priced reasonably, then we like it.
Honestly, I take umbrage at the idea that we get paid for reviews and I suspect a lot of the writers and editors at the sites I've written for would feel the same way. Being paid to write a review, favorable or otherwise, is an inherent conflict of interest. We review what we're sent.
In this case, we reviewed a machine that I felt had some merit. It wasn't perfect, but if you can get this machine for $2,099, that's a good deal. If you'd rather roll your own, so much the better. Like I mentioned in the review, I built my own machine. We can't review the company as a whole, we can't review reliability, because these things are just logistically too difficult to do. If people have had negative experiences with iBP as you seem to have, then these comments are the best place to sound off.
I have no experience with iBuyPower one way or the other, but after reading the review and your comments I did go to their site and price out a system as I might buy it if I were going to actually buy one. I was looking at a p55/i7 870 system which is obviously different from the review
But, what struck me is the huge number of options available. As to your specific comments:
1. Cable sleeving is in fact available as an option. The review was incorrect in implying it is a standard feature but you are also wrong in saying that it isn't an option because it is. You have to get beyond the "base components"tab and go through the process as if you were going to buy. You will find it on the "Services and Support" tab and it will cost you $38.00 ($19 for "basic pro wiring" and another $19 for the sleeving).
2. Overclocking options. If you don't like their overclocking as described in the article, you can just order the system without it. Overclocking is an option available as 10%, 20% or 30% for $19, $49, and $99 respectively. I would personally order it without overclocking and just do it myself. They do give you that option.
3. You state that the "proper way to do a review" is to order it then return it for a refund. I can see the value of ordering it without telling them it is for a review so that you can see what an actual customer would see. But ordering a product knowing in advance that you are going to use if for your purpose and then return it is dishonest. And if Anandtech had to pay for all the systems they review...there would probably be no reviews.
Basically I think the readers of this site are plenty smart enough to do their own homework and the anger, finger pointing and accusations are certainly not adding anything to the discussion.
And for those that haven't heard of iBUYPOWER, they've been around for at least five years, and most people I know think they have decent builds and good prices. Unless you don't trust resellerratings? http://www.resellerratings.com/store/iBUYPOWER
As for the pricing, I just went here (http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Paladin_XLC_V1) and came up with a price of $2278 with the exact configuration tested. Prices change, so it's possible some of the items went up. I've updated the price in the first table to reflect this. Obviously you pay a slight charge for the assembly and testing, but for a complete system with some decent components that price is still very reasonable.
Jarred, could you please stop advertising for a second: "And for those that haven't heard of iBUYPOWER, they've been around for at least five years, and most people I know think they have decent builds and good prices. Unless you don't trust resellerratings?"
You also read the bad review, or only the good ones? Also, their lifetime rating is 7.5. Anyway, my whole point was that they don't ship to customers system as well built as the one in the review, let alone cable sleeving and other details. Plus, most people that order a system from them should be happy if they even get it in one piece, because their packaging leaves allot to be desired. I don't want a dirt cheap product made from expensive components that may or may not work, I want a good product and I'm willing to pay a couple of hundred more to get it. That way I know that if there is an issue, someone will actually service my system. Otherwise, I could just build my own. iBuyPower should step up and be honest and offer a good product, even if it means that they would charge more, instead to try and compete by undercutting everyone.
Anyway, here is the configuration straight from their web site. Look for the final price at the bottom. It's still more than what you came up with:
Case NZXT Phantom Full Tower Gaming Case - Red Case Lighting None iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction None iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion None Processor Intel® Core™ i7 930 Processor (4x 2.80GHz/8MB L3 Cache) iBUYPOWER PowerDrive PowerDrive Level 3 - Up to 30% Overclocking Processor Cooling Asetek 570LX Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Dual Radiator [SOCKET-1366] - 2x Enermax Silent High Performance Fan Upgrade Memory 6 GB [2 GB X3] DDR3-1600 - ** FREE Upgrade from DDR3-1333 ** Corsair or Major Brand Video Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 - 1.2GB - EVGA Superclocked - SLI Mode (Dual Cards) Video Card Brand Major Brand Powered by ATI or NVIDIA Motherboard [SLI] Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R w/ 4x PCI-E 2.0 x16 Motherboard USB / SATA Interface Motherboard default USB / SATA Interface Power Supply 850 Watt -- NZXT HALE90 / 80+ Gold Primary Hard Drive 1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 16M Cache, 7200 RPM, 3.0Gb/s - Single Drive Data Hard Drive 1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive Optical Drive [10X Blu-Ray] LG BLU-RAY Re-Writer, DVD±R/±RW Burner Combo Drive - Black 2nd Optical Drive None Flash Media Reader/Writer 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer - Black Meter Display None Sound Card 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard Network Card Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) - 64-Bit Monitor None 2nd Monitor None Speaker System iBUYPOWER 2.1 Channel Stereo Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System Power Protection None Headset None Video Camera None Warranty Standard Warranty Service - Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support Rush Service Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) - No Rush Service, Estimate Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days Keyboard iBUYPOWER USB Keyboard Black
TOTAL PRICE: $2419 (I had 12GB RAM in my first build, that's why the first time I came up with $2610. But now since you can see the build straight from their web site, there isn't anything left here to say).
The test system came with a 64GB SSDNow and 1TB 64MB HDD, not two 1TB HDDs; also, the GPUs are not the EVGA SuperClocked model. I selected the 8X LG Blu-ray, as Dustin listed a 10X BD-ROM, not a 10X BD-RW. The major difference in pricing comes from the extra $100 for a Blu-ray Rewriter, as the GPUs end up washing out with the SSD price.
FWIW, lifetime ratings at RR can be misleading, though there are problems with a 6-month window as well. The recent history is full of pleased reviews, while at about 8 months back there's a bunch of complaints. At least one is a person whining about two unknown devices on a laptop after upgrading to Windows 7... hardly a 1-star experience. Others ordered something and it didn't ship immediately, which makes me wonder if they were trying to jump on some hot new hardware and ended up with limited inventory. Again, that's not a 1-star review in my book. They're not perfect, but perhaps -- just perhaps -- they're doing better now than in the past. Or they just had a bunch of users give them favorable RR reviews lately.
Anyway, you have a history of angry comments, and I still don't know what you have against this company. We said the system was priced well, overclocked poorly (i.e. lazy), and the GTX 470 SLI was probably overkill... then you act as though we praised them for being the greatest thing since sliced bread. They look like a reasonable option overall, particularly if you're not after massive overclocks. There will be good and bad experiences, but on average they do well. Would I buy from them? If the price was right, sure. Last time I bought someone a system, I ended up with CyberPower purchased from Newegg because it was cheaper than iBUYPOWER, but they were my second option.
I don't know how you can poorly overclock an Corer i7, I really don't. The platform is so mature, and given that the system is using a second generation X58 motherboard (USB 3.0 support and SATA 6), there is no such thing as a Lazy Overclock with an i7. I've explained before, different X58 motherboards show poor performance when used with 2 X GTX 470 cards in SLI due to some BIOS bug. I have experienced this with an MSI X58 Big Bang XPower. As soon as MSI sent me a new BIOS, things got back to normal. It could be the case with the Gigabyte board as well, I don't know for sure.
As far as pricing goes, I will give up on this argument. I could nit pick us much as I want, for example I could tell you that the LG 8X Blu Ray is not being manufactured anymore and that it has been replaced by the 10X.
My hole point is that iBuyPower doesn't ship the same build quality to their customers. Order one from them as a customer, not as a review site, review it and then we can talk.
The overclock wasn't tuned. It looked brute force, like "this is a good baseline to get this much of an overclock from the i7."
The i7 930 overclocks like a frigging champ. This thing had a VID lower than mine did, on the same model and revision of motherboard, and with less memory to serve than mine. It looked like they just plugged in some numbers that they felt had a high chance of producing a stable overclock, regardless of the individual tolerances of the specific CPU and motherboard, probably gave it a few runs in Linx, and called it a day.
I see your point. My issue with the MSI motherboard didn't have anything to do with overclocking. With BIOS 1.2, when 2 X NVIDIA (GTX 470 in my case) where being used in SLI, the whole system would slow down. I had something to do with resource allocation. Anyway, BIOS 1.37Beta fixed the issue.
As far as the effort that they've put into overclocking the system, it just echoes what I've said: there isn't enough margin for iBuyPower to do any serious work.
Despite the fact that I can build my own system, if I don't have the time to do or mess with it, I would rather order from a custom builder. I would rather pay more and get a solid product.
So which iBUYPOWER PC did you purchase in the past year? Because unless you've had recent personal experience with them, none of this conversation even matters.
Sure, it would be nice to buy product, review it, and return it for a refund post-review. HardOCP tried that a couple years back (it was called "[ H ] Consumer" or something like that), and guess what? They're no longer doing it for "some strange reason". Could it be that if you buy a product, review it, and they don't like the review you're stuck with something you don't want? Maybe it just cost too much money upfront for items the readers didn't care to read about? Anyway, unless Anand offers to start buying me systems and dealing with the return and refund process, I'm not capable of footing that bill. Heh... if I got paid by companies to do favorable reviews, maybe it would be a lot easier?
Anyway, unless you buy this same iBUYPOWER and don't get any of the extra stuff mentioned in this review, I'm not sure there's much else to discuss. Do companies try to send "better" samples to reviewers? Yup. But if cable sleeving like they claim to offer doesn't come on customer samples, and we hear about it from people that actually buy based off our review, trust me that it will come back to bite them in the butt.
I found what appears to be the sleeving options on page 3 of the configuration, the "Services and Support" tab, Advanced Build Options. Looks like it was $57 for everything. I also got a price of ~$2500 (including the BD burner) so their $2100 estimate might have been low, unless they offered this all in a package at some point. Ultimately price comparisons are of limited use anyway, as both the prices they offer stuff at and the prices average consumers can buy stuff for from NewEgg and such are constantly changing, so the value of these reviews is more in seeing if the company does things right, such as having BIOS and drivers up to date for shipping time and such, or if the overclock is indeed stable (if lazy).
Plus, this isn't even the most overpriced machine I have seen today, our lab got a quote for a piece of equipment this morning that included $1395 for a system listed as a 2.0GHz C2D, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, DVD/RW, 17" LCD, and WinXP Pro.
I dont know all that much about the company, but I have this case pictured and its incredible! Great cooling with 7 fans. Reminds me of a Stormtrooper from Star Wars. Some people that seen it think something from the USS Enterprise. Awesome spacing and easy to add parts to. If your doing a new build or adding hardware, order one youll love it!
That is an amazingly ugly case. I would be embarrassed to have that hideous thing in my house. I am an adult, though. Maybe some 14 year old would think it's "awesome", but ...oh forget it.
It's funny, I've had a couple of people come over to look at the case and we've all reached the same conclusion: it's kind of tacky, but appealing in an awesomely tacky "this looks like an imperial stormtrooper" kind of way. I like the case as a curio, but for my own build I'd still rather use my Antec P182.
You may do your own search on youtube about how actual iBuyPower systems look like that are being shipped to customers, but for reference here is a video from May, 2010: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKZD4BFAo8k&fea...
I wouldn't say that it looks any better than from what an average Joe with average computer hardware skills would put together.
I'm not sure what you'd want it to be. Since the switch to SATA in place of the old IDE cables, wiring has become less critical IMO. Anyway, I've played with old Falcon Northwest and VoodooPC computers in the past, with immaculate wiring jobs. The problem is that if you ever need to replace something, or add hardware, or whatever it's a total pain in the butt. Then again, I don't care about case lighting or windows, so all I need is wiring that isn't terrible. iBUYPOWER doesn't do much beyond what an enthusiast can do, but if you were to ask me to build a similar system I'd probably charge $200 and I wouldn't be providing free tech support.
1) Personally, I love the look of the white Phantom case. I am friggin sick of boring black rectangles.
2) You are spot on with the i7 overclock. You can get 4.0-4.2 easily on air cooling. With that 2X120mm radiator they should have no problems hitting at least 4.0ghz.
3) I think you are a bit off on 470GTX. Yes, to your comments about heat and power. But the 470GTX is at a sweet spot right now, since you can pick up a pair of them for $440. When run in SLI they are very competitive at that price. Not needed for a single monitor run at normal res, but VERY nice for high res or multi-monitor.
4) The cable sleeving argument is mildly retarded. Nowadays you can just buy the colored, pre-sleeved cable extensions from NZXT directly or newegg or frozencpu for like 6-10 bucks. They look fantastic. Not to mention the fact that this case has so much room and amazing airflow that sleeving isnt much of a performance issue.
Anyway, nice review. You marked your issues but still made a call at the end. I wouldn't go prebuilt since I could build my own, but this isn't a bad build or a bad price. Rock on Dustin.
The cable sleeving argument was mine. I wasn't talking about pres-sleeved extensions, which is probably what they've used. Yes they look fantastic, and no, I didn't know that you could buy them for NZXT power supplies. I've done cable sleeving in the past and it is very time consuming, not to mention expensive if you do a whole computer (~$60 to $70 in materials alone). My point was that I couldn't believe that they would take the time to sleeve cables at this price point, but since there are extensions that you can buy readily available, it is more plausible.
I agree with you on the GTX 470. I've just picked up a pair of Gigabyte GTX470 (reference cards, probably made by the same manufacturer who makes all the other GTX 470 cards) for ~$500 from NewEgg. Maybe in some amazing combo, they would cost $440 for a pair. But right now they are actually the best bang for the buck when used in SLI.
Hitting 4.0GHz requeres a little bit of skill, regardless of the motherboard that they where using. However, 3.5GHz was easy to attain. The reviewer meant that the overclock was poorly tuned when he said that it was "lazy", not that the CPU wasn't set at a higher speed.
Enough with the "You can easily get 4GHz on air" comments. Do you even have one? A Core i7 WILL overclock stably to 3.8GHZ without too much tweaking but after that it requires voltage increases that rapidly increase system temps and often result in INstability. I have mine under water cooling and with summer ambient temp,anything over 3.8GHz heats things up very quickly. I know it sounds so hardcore boasting about 4GHz overclocks but in the real world its not as "gosh darn" child's play as you state.
You can buy them at Fry's for $249 each and they have a $30 rebate. I got a similar deal a month ago that Galaxy posted on the [H}ardocp forums.
I see what you mean on the OC. Weaksauce adjustments to Bclk, vcore and such...which led to a weak overclock. If I am paying for an expert to build my system I would expect it to be properly tuned.
Wolfman, how are you liking those 470's? I am very pleased with mine running 3 monitors in NVSurround.
I love the my pair of GTX 470. IMHO they're the best bang for the buck right now, period. I got a pair of Gigabyte GTX 470 from NewEgg (it was an order for a whole system), and with the combos and MIR I got my pair same as you, for $440. Again, I highly recommend the cards in SLI.
This article is a perfect example of why I don't buy a pre-built.
Power supply made by who? The people who build machines to sell will find ways to cut corners. Overclocked by a factory monkey who cared the first 100 machines he/she built, but frankly the job is getting a bit old and doesn't really pay all that well to begin with. Besides, time is money, and spending a extra couple of hours with your boss breathing down your neck isn't fun, even if you still enjoy the actual work. Been there, done that.
Okay, I imagine there are a few who don't cut corners, but they don't sell machines under $3k. Most don't even bother to check with mainboard manufacturers and see if the components they use have been tested, or see if Microsoft has approved it for Win 7. I'm not saying iBUYPOWER is that sloppy, but many manufacturers are.
As far as video card overkill - all I have to say is, I play WoW on a system using an i7 920 OC'd to 4.1GHz running Crossfired 5770s and it can't hold 1920x1200 @ 85 Hz everywhere in the game with all settings on "Ultra", so I'll believe 2 470s in SLI, even with their much greater power and scalability, will be more power than I need when I see it - and that's before I buy a bigger monitor with more pixels to generate. The fact is, standard these days is 1920x1080 and a bunch of us have more than that (I'm running old school still, and far better than most of you, which is the reason I can run @ 85 Hz. Hz=refresh rate=fps for those of you unfamiliar with the nomenclature); this system is far from overkill. We run 2 monitors (or more), Sony GDM FW900s, The Dell U2711, 30" monitors, or a variety of other options other than the average setup.
(Not putting down "the average setup" or anything else. I also have an LCD running 1920x1200@60Hz, and it is a nice monitor. TN monitors have come a long way. But then, so have other screen types.)
Granted, WoW is a CPU intensive game and not strictly speaking a fair judge of video card performance (but it is a great judge of overall computer video performance); and the WoW tech boys and girls need to step up and bring the game in to modern times and take advantage of the video card power we have these days (maybe they are going to do it in Cataclysm, but I'm not holding my breath. Regardless, even software doing mostly traditional CPU style work is wasting a modern computer's power if it's not taking advantage of the GPU to share the load - the 2 systems are not as separate in function as they once were, and software engineers should be taking advantage of that.) but the video card setup does have a big impact.
We also now have 3D with a 120Hz requirement@ 1920x1080 (Didn't I just read an article talking about how much better the experience of 120Hz was over 60Hz here in Anandtech?), monitors capable of 10-bit color becoming mainstream, and LCD television screens capable of 240Hz. The video capabilities of a computer like this are far from overkill.
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CloudFire - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I love the case, been following NZXT for awhile and I'm planning on buying this case for my new build when the 22nm cpu's hit :DAlberto8793 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
DUDE 22nm wont be coming out till like 2012 you can wait that long?JKflipflop98 - Saturday, September 4, 2010 - link
We're just now really getting 32nm rolling along. 22 will take a little while.Milleman - Monday, September 6, 2010 - link
Looks like a Storm Trooper design from Star Wars.TETRONG - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Would be interesting to see the difference in terms of performance/heat/noise/power if you "retuned" the system to your liking."Ibuypower" - <---- has to be the dumbest name for a computer company ever..they might want to think about that. Shame, seems like they do good work.
siniranji - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I would like to know whether any flashy futuristic lighting given in the body?if not a tiny LCD screen showing cabinet temperature / CPU temperature at front .
Titanium finish (looks atleast) preferable. Please post more images
Will Robinson - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
GTX460 in SLI would've been a better choice however they may have specced this machine before the 460's release.Usually the bean counters set things in stone once they've priced out a system.
Are they an option?
It's a pretty reasonable price for that configuration however.I imagine the same thing from Alienware would be $6k ;)
ramj70 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
The 460's are an option at ibuypower, you can configure the system any way you want to. The last pre-built I bought before I started building my own was an Ibuypower years ago. It was a pretty decent computer and I never had problems with the parts in it.flipmode - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Here is yet another "System" article that will be lost to history as soon as it drops off the front page because there is no link to the "System" section of the website.Please Anandtech, please fix this tragedy.
Sincerely,
flipmode
webmastir - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
this is the worst computer company ever. don't believe me? google & do your research before getting ripped off by these idiots.enjoy.
Chaser - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
...and they were outstanding to me when I bought my IC7 about a year ago. Mine is flawless and rock solid. They were stout professionals every step of the way and after sales support, even though I haven't had to use it hardly ever was top notch.Enjoying
erple2 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Yet another baseless, pointless rant that doesn't contribute to the conversation. Now that I think about it, you should add this post to that list.I find nothing on a google search other than some irate customers complaining about what I can only believe are personal issues. The vast majority of users seem to like this company. In fact, on reselleratings, they score better than industry average (and by a fairly good amount, at least in the last 6 months).
I can only conclude that you're angry at something, and taking it out in a forum.
espressojim - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
I had to return my machine. DOA on shipment, and all of the money I paid extra for (nice cable routing, sound dampining) wasn't there.At least they refunded my $$$ in full once I complained sufficiently. My story is at:
resellerratings. I'm glad I got less lazy and built my own - it was cheaper, had better parts, and has a better build due to me actually caring.
Lazlo Panaflex - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Looks like something Darth Vader would build his rig in ;-)Bolder63 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
This was a few years ago my PC mobo had gone bad and it was old enough to warrant building a replacement. Shortly after this happened I had a medical emergency and was hospitalized. I saw a PC advertised with IBUYPOWER that had similar specs to what I had in mind to build.I went ahead and bought the rig from them. When it arrived it was packaged in the box the PC case came in with no interior packaging or anything more that the case itself had to start with. The dual slot video card had not been inserted into the mobo properly and in shipping had damaged the PCI-E slot. The power supply had obviously been installed in the case after the mobo as the builder had pried the sata connectors 90 degrees to fit it in, damaging them as well.
I called IBUYPOWER, to find that getting a CSR on the phone was a whole new exercise in patience. I got them to send me an RM to ship it back finally. The 2nd time it came back it was still packed in the same case box which now had even less packing material. The PC was still unacceptable as the replacement mobo had received the same careless handling. Round 2 with the CSR and the manager himself. Sent it back again 3rd time it came back it had obviously been assembled by a different person it was much better than the previous 2. The packaging still sucked but someone had put some packing in the case and the video card had not destroyed anything this time.
The PC worked ok for maybe 3 months before I had to replace the power supply and video card and ultimately the mobo as well.
Due to my experience with this company I would NEVER buy ANYTHING from them again.
jamyryals - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
was the hospital stay nice at least?adonn78 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I think the Nvidia 400 series runs too hot. SLI is definitely overkill but you never know what you'll need 3 years from now. I would have only had one video card or gotten 2 less expensive ones such as 2 5770's crossfire. and gotten a 120GB Sandforce SSD drive.jed22281 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Does anyone know if it has any notable improvements over the original LCLC 240mm?How so exactly?
The LCLC 240 was purchasable on it's own in limited volumes, does anyone know if this will be?
Thank-you!
7Enigma - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
I'm interested in knowing this as well. Honestly I thought the overall review was lacking in several areas. The reviewer mentions it was loud and power hungry (calling the overclock amatuerish which I agree with) but doesn't put any data up to support this?Hopefully it was just forgotten and the article will be updated shortly...
jed22281 - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
Hmmm....You don't get emailed if someone responds to your post, that blows!
I'm finding it almost impossible to determine if the 570LX is just a re-badged LCLC 240mm.
I strongly suspect it is, & even if it isn't, I guess that's irrelevant if it can't be bought on it's own!
Although I have found one retailer (NZ oddly enough) that claims to sell it.
http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=216/...
But I have suspicions it's not what they claim it is....
HangFire - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Dustin, you comment:When it's something like the Dell and Acer desktops we've reviewed it's easy enough: these are machines you can recommend to friends and family without tying yourself to their continued maintenance and service.
I find myself tied to the continued maintenance and service of friends and family systems, whether or not I recommend them.
Could you explain this extraordinary statement of yours? If the comments field isn't large enough, perhaps you could write a feature article on the topic.
-HF
Sanada - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
It looks like a Storm Trooper.wolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
After reading this review I've checked out ResellerRatings.com, and also checked out the iBuyPower website. And I've also googled them. My gripes with the review and this company:1) The name is stupid. iBuyPower sounds awful, and will never be taken seriously as a high performance computer manufacturer. It sounds more like the Daewoo of the computer world. They can also be easlily confused for CyberPower (maybe they're the same company?).
2) The configuration as tested costs $2610 + $65 for Ground Shipping, not $2099. Hell, $2099 don't even cover the cost of the parts on NewEgg.com, even considering a couple of rebates and combo discounts. So, why are you guys lying?
3) The cable management that the reviewed system came with cannot be ordered from iBuyPower.com !!! It's called cable sleeving, it's very time consuming, and only the sleeving materials can cost up to $100 for a single computer, plus a day of work to sleeve every and each cable. So why does iBuyPower ship systems with cable sleeving to reviewers???
4) No pictures from the right side of the computer (the backside behind the motherboard). I bet that it looks like cable spaghetti there.
5) Hailing a 3.5GHz overclock on a Core i7 CPU !? WTF? Any newbie can pull that off. Now a 4.0GHz overclock would have been something worth paying money for. But to pay $80 for a 3.5GHz overclock?
This review sounds like classic advertising. iBuyPower probably shelled out a couple of bucks so that you guys could say nice words about them. What I've found online is more in line with the truth about iBuyPower. They still are a horrible company with horrendous customer service and their builds that they ship to paying customers look nothing like the system that's posted in this review. There are legions of angry customers that got shipped a broken system, after which they had to wait for months for either a refund or in rare cases they got their systems repaired. Ultimately, you'll get what you pay for.
This to iBuyPower: How about you send a system (like you send to your paying customers) to Kyle at [H]ardOCP.com. Those guys are far more truthful and honest about products. As for the iBuyPower review posted here on AnandTech, it is biased beyond belief. Nevertheless, you guys do great work when it comes to scientific articles.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
1. Not really my place to judge.2. MSRP in our press materials listed this unit as $2,099. I was able to pull together a similar configuration for less than two bills at NewEgg. The SSD is $120, the HD is $90, the CPU is $300, case is $160, mobo is $200, GTX 470's are $300 apiece, the (overpriced) PSU is around $180, optical drive is $80, RAM is about $150. Price of materials from NewEgg hits around $2k, which makes this a pretty decent deal from iBuyPower if they're selling this thing at $2,099. If they're not honoring that, then that's another matter entirely.
3. Again, the press materials say they just sleeve the cables as a matter of course.
4. You mean the side of the system that's probably supposed to look like cable spaghetti? Ignoring the fact that the PSU is modular so the only cables connected are the ones that are needed.
5. I didn't hail it. I do believe I said it was lazy. In fact I'm pretty sure I spent the majority of page three griping about it.
If AT is getting paid for this review, I didn't see any of it and no one told me about it.
wolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Maybe I was to harsh with you about this review, because I don't think that it's really your fault. I also don't want you to get me the wrong way, so I will try to explain again:First of all, there is nothing wrong with getting paid for a review. We see product placement all over the place, from movies to every day life, and it's something that has been practiced since the beginning of the 20th century (Onasis introduced smoking to women as a fashion accessory by having a famous singer smoke on stage - but this is besides the point). My point is that I don't have a problem with anyone getting paid to write nice words about a product, as long as there is some truth to it. Anyway, if you guys didn't get paid to write nice words about iBuyPower (to some extent) I'm sorry for you, because you would have deserved some compensation to write any kind a review about this crappy company.
The system being slow may not have actually been iBuyPower's fault (to some extent). I had 2 X MSI GTX 470 cards in SLI on a MSI X58 Bing Bang XPower motherboard, and the system performance was abysmal at best. After MSI sent me a BETA BIOS the system was running fine. It could be the case here as well. Then again, iBuyPower should have done their homework.
A good reviewer throws the press lease away, and does his/her own investigation. Further more, the proper way to review any system is to order it from the manufacturer, review it and then ask for a refund. Then you will get an actual system that they ship to customers, and not a nicely dressed up system with clean cable management and "free" cable sleeving. Back to the press release, as far as price is concerned, I couldn't configure an identical system on iBuyPower's web site for $2099 with identical specs. It was $2610.
For potential customers: YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR CABLES NICELY SLEEVED BECAUSE IT'S NOT EVEN AN OPTION THAT YOU CAN PURCHASE. IT'S SOMETHING THEY DID FOR THE REVIEW. CLAIMING THAT THEY SLEEVE AS A "MATTER OF COURSE" IS B.S. THEY SIMPLY DON'T DO IT FOR CUSTOMERS.
Sorry about the caps, but I want people to see this. Cable sleeving is labor intensive, and there isn't enough margin in that system to do it. Heck, there isn't enough margin for the 3 Year Warranty either, that's why customers have to cover all the shipping charges, and sometimes even repair charges during the warranty period, but it sure looks cool when you offer 3 years warranty.
The Bottom Line:
I wish it was true, I wish that iBuyPower would ship all their systems at a super low price, with a true 3 year warranty, with sleeved cables. I wish that they would put the same amount of work, care and dedication into every system that they ship as they've put in the system in this review, but they simply don't. Why they don't? Because there isn't enough margin to cover all the business expenses, employees, packaging materials, and so on. A couple of hundred bucks won't cover it! Oh, and why I was insisting on the cable sleeving? Because I've done it, and I know how long it takes to do it for a single computer system, especially when it comes to power supply cables. And no, no computer that costs over $2000 should have any kind of cable spaghetti, whether it's visible or not. I would love to believe that this is how iBuyPower ships systems to their customers, but they simply don't. My advice: stay away from them. There are simply enough better companies out there, and if not, you can always build your own. There is plenty of good advice on Anandtech.com about how to build a computer from scratch.
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
See my post below. As for your other comments, you're apparently having problems reading our review. Nowhere did we suggest this system is slow; it's fast, just like you'd expect from a 3.5GHz Core i7. Regarding cable sleeving, which you appear to have a vendetta going on about, when did you buy a system from them? Have you every purchased one from them, or are you just ranting because they compete with your business? Here's a post from another web site at CES 2010:http://www.thinkcomputers.org/ces-2010-ibuypower/
"One cool thing iBUYPOWER is doing is the completely sleeved cables on the power supply. This is not just regular sleeving, but every cable is sleeved individually. To understand what I mean check out the photos below. iBUYPOWER will be offering this as an upgrade option on their system for around $50."
Either they're doing it or they aren't, but somehow I suspect that you're not the authority on what iBUYPOWER does or doesn't offer. It's entirely possible that the sleeving comes standard on the Paladin XLC, which would in part explain the slightly higher price compared to some of their other systems.
Please don't accuse people of lying when they're not, and don't accuse people of incorrect pricing when your own pricing is off. If you can't get the price below $2610, you're not trying very hard. And just to be clear, we are not paid by companies to review product -- never have been in all the years I've been here. Sure, we have advertisements on the site, and some of those come from companies whose products we review. However, our review team is totally separate from the marketing team that handles advertisers. In my 6+ years working for AnandTech, I have never been asked to review a product for money, I have never been told to give a product a good review, and I have never even dealt with the advertising side of things.
Don't believe me? Then go try and buy a review from our site. The most you can do is ask us to review a product, and if we feel like doing so we will (mostly based on if we have time and if your product looks interesting). iBUYPOWER, AVADirect, Eurocom, CyberPower, and other smaller companies -- along with big names like ASUS, Dell, HP, Intel, NVIDIA, AMD, etc. -- are all at the same level. We ask them for products, or they ask us to review something, and that's about it. If a product performs well and is priced reasonably, then we like it.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Honestly, I take umbrage at the idea that we get paid for reviews and I suspect a lot of the writers and editors at the sites I've written for would feel the same way. Being paid to write a review, favorable or otherwise, is an inherent conflict of interest. We review what we're sent.In this case, we reviewed a machine that I felt had some merit. It wasn't perfect, but if you can get this machine for $2,099, that's a good deal. If you'd rather roll your own, so much the better. Like I mentioned in the review, I built my own machine. We can't review the company as a whole, we can't review reliability, because these things are just logistically too difficult to do. If people have had negative experiences with iBP as you seem to have, then these comments are the best place to sound off.
Ratman6161 - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
I have no experience with iBuyPower one way or the other, but after reading the review and your comments I did go to their site and price out a system as I might buy it if I were going to actually buy one. I was looking at a p55/i7 870 system which is obviously different from the reviewBut, what struck me is the huge number of options available. As to your specific comments:
1. Cable sleeving is in fact available as an option. The review was incorrect in implying it is a standard feature but you are also wrong in saying that it isn't an option because it is. You have to get beyond the "base components"tab and go through the process as if you were going to buy. You will find it on the "Services and Support" tab and it will cost you $38.00 ($19 for "basic pro wiring" and another $19 for the sleeving).
2. Overclocking options. If you don't like their overclocking as described in the article, you can just order the system without it. Overclocking is an option available as 10%, 20% or 30% for $19, $49, and $99 respectively. I would personally order it without overclocking and just do it myself. They do give you that option.
3. You state that the "proper way to do a review" is to order it then return it for a refund. I can see the value of ordering it without telling them it is for a review so that you can see what an actual customer would see. But ordering a product knowing in advance that you are going to use if for your purpose and then return it is dishonest. And if Anandtech had to pay for all the systems they review...there would probably be no reviews.
Basically I think the readers of this site are plenty smart enough to do their own homework and the anger, finger pointing and accusations are certainly not adding anything to the discussion.
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
And for those that haven't heard of iBUYPOWER, they've been around for at least five years, and most people I know think they have decent builds and good prices. Unless you don't trust resellerratings?http://www.resellerratings.com/store/iBUYPOWER
As for the pricing, I just went here (http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Paladin_XLC_V1) and came up with a price of $2278 with the exact configuration tested. Prices change, so it's possible some of the items went up. I've updated the price in the first table to reflect this. Obviously you pay a slight charge for the assembly and testing, but for a complete system with some decent components that price is still very reasonable.
wolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
Jarred, could you please stop advertising for a second:"And for those that haven't heard of iBUYPOWER, they've been around for at least five years, and most people I know think they have decent builds and good prices. Unless you don't trust resellerratings?"
You also read the bad review, or only the good ones? Also, their lifetime rating is 7.5. Anyway, my whole point was that they don't ship to customers system as well built as the one in the review, let alone cable sleeving and other details. Plus, most people that order a system from them should be happy if they even get it in one piece, because their packaging leaves allot to be desired. I don't want a dirt cheap product made from expensive components that may or may not work, I want a good product and I'm willing to pay a couple of hundred more to get it. That way I know that if there is an issue, someone will actually service my system. Otherwise, I could just build my own. iBuyPower should step up and be honest and offer a good product, even if it means that they would charge more, instead to try and compete by undercutting everyone.
Anyway, here is the configuration straight from their web site. Look for the final price at the bottom. It's still more than what you came up with:
Case
NZXT Phantom Full Tower Gaming Case - Red
Case Lighting
None
iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction
None
iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion
None
Processor
Intel® Core™ i7 930 Processor (4x 2.80GHz/8MB L3 Cache)
iBUYPOWER PowerDrive
PowerDrive Level 3 - Up to 30% Overclocking
Processor Cooling
Asetek 570LX Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Dual Radiator [SOCKET-1366] - 2x Enermax Silent High Performance Fan Upgrade
Memory
6 GB [2 GB X3] DDR3-1600 - ** FREE Upgrade from DDR3-1333 ** Corsair or Major Brand
Video Card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 - 1.2GB - EVGA Superclocked - SLI Mode (Dual Cards)
Video Card Brand
Major Brand Powered by ATI or NVIDIA
Motherboard
[SLI] Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R w/ 4x PCI-E 2.0 x16
Motherboard USB / SATA Interface
Motherboard default USB / SATA Interface
Power Supply
850 Watt -- NZXT HALE90 / 80+ Gold
Primary Hard Drive
1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 16M Cache, 7200 RPM, 3.0Gb/s - Single Drive
Data Hard Drive
1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive
Optical Drive
[10X Blu-Ray] LG BLU-RAY Re-Writer, DVD±R/±RW Burner Combo Drive - Black
2nd Optical Drive
None
Flash Media Reader/Writer
12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer - Black
Meter Display
None
Sound Card
3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
Network Card
Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) - 64-Bit
Monitor
None
2nd Monitor
None
Speaker System
iBUYPOWER 2.1 Channel Stereo Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System
Power Protection
None
Headset
None
Video Camera
None
Warranty
Standard Warranty Service - Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support
Rush Service
Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) - No Rush Service, Estimate Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days
Keyboard
iBUYPOWER USB Keyboard Black
TOTAL PRICE: $2419 (I had 12GB RAM in my first build, that's why the first time I came up with $2610. But now since you can see the build straight from their web site, there isn't anything left here to say).
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
The test system came with a 64GB SSDNow and 1TB 64MB HDD, not two 1TB HDDs; also, the GPUs are not the EVGA SuperClocked model. I selected the 8X LG Blu-ray, as Dustin listed a 10X BD-ROM, not a 10X BD-RW. The major difference in pricing comes from the extra $100 for a Blu-ray Rewriter, as the GPUs end up washing out with the SSD price.FWIW, lifetime ratings at RR can be misleading, though there are problems with a 6-month window as well. The recent history is full of pleased reviews, while at about 8 months back there's a bunch of complaints. At least one is a person whining about two unknown devices on a laptop after upgrading to Windows 7... hardly a 1-star experience. Others ordered something and it didn't ship immediately, which makes me wonder if they were trying to jump on some hot new hardware and ended up with limited inventory. Again, that's not a 1-star review in my book. They're not perfect, but perhaps -- just perhaps -- they're doing better now than in the past. Or they just had a bunch of users give them favorable RR reviews lately.
Anyway, you have a history of angry comments, and I still don't know what you have against this company. We said the system was priced well, overclocked poorly (i.e. lazy), and the GTX 470 SLI was probably overkill... then you act as though we praised them for being the greatest thing since sliced bread. They look like a reasonable option overall, particularly if you're not after massive overclocks. There will be good and bad experiences, but on average they do well. Would I buy from them? If the price was right, sure. Last time I bought someone a system, I ended up with CyberPower purchased from Newegg because it was cheaper than iBUYPOWER, but they were my second option.
wolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I don't know how you can poorly overclock an Corer i7, I really don't. The platform is so mature, and given that the system is using a second generation X58 motherboard (USB 3.0 support and SATA 6), there is no such thing as a Lazy Overclock with an i7. I've explained before, different X58 motherboards show poor performance when used with 2 X GTX 470 cards in SLI due to some BIOS bug. I have experienced this with an MSI X58 Big Bang XPower. As soon as MSI sent me a new BIOS, things got back to normal. It could be the case with the Gigabyte board as well, I don't know for sure.As far as pricing goes, I will give up on this argument. I could nit pick us much as I want, for example I could tell you that the LG 8X Blu Ray is not being manufactured anymore and that it has been replaced by the 10X.
My hole point is that iBuyPower doesn't ship the same build quality to their customers. Order one from them as a customer, not as a review site, review it and then we can talk.
Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
The overclock wasn't tuned. It looked brute force, like "this is a good baseline to get this much of an overclock from the i7."The i7 930 overclocks like a frigging champ. This thing had a VID lower than mine did, on the same model and revision of motherboard, and with less memory to serve than mine. It looked like they just plugged in some numbers that they felt had a high chance of producing a stable overclock, regardless of the individual tolerances of the specific CPU and motherboard, probably gave it a few runs in Linx, and called it a day.
wolfman3k5 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I see your point. My issue with the MSI motherboard didn't have anything to do with overclocking. With BIOS 1.2, when 2 X NVIDIA (GTX 470 in my case) where being used in SLI, the whole system would slow down. I had something to do with resource allocation. Anyway, BIOS 1.37Beta fixed the issue.As far as the effort that they've put into overclocking the system, it just echoes what I've said: there isn't enough margin for iBuyPower to do any serious work.
Despite the fact that I can build my own system, if I don't have the time to do or mess with it, I would rather order from a custom builder. I would rather pay more and get a solid product.
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
So which iBUYPOWER PC did you purchase in the past year? Because unless you've had recent personal experience with them, none of this conversation even matters.Sure, it would be nice to buy product, review it, and return it for a refund post-review. HardOCP tried that a couple years back (it was called "[ H ] Consumer" or something like that), and guess what? They're no longer doing it for "some strange reason". Could it be that if you buy a product, review it, and they don't like the review you're stuck with something you don't want? Maybe it just cost too much money upfront for items the readers didn't care to read about? Anyway, unless Anand offers to start buying me systems and dealing with the return and refund process, I'm not capable of footing that bill. Heh... if I got paid by companies to do favorable reviews, maybe it would be a lot easier?
Anyway, unless you buy this same iBUYPOWER and don't get any of the extra stuff mentioned in this review, I'm not sure there's much else to discuss. Do companies try to send "better" samples to reviewers? Yup. But if cable sleeving like they claim to offer doesn't come on customer samples, and we hear about it from people that actually buy based off our review, trust me that it will come back to bite them in the butt.
strikeback03 - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
I found what appears to be the sleeving options on page 3 of the configuration, the "Services and Support" tab, Advanced Build Options. Looks like it was $57 for everything. I also got a price of ~$2500 (including the BD burner) so their $2100 estimate might have been low, unless they offered this all in a package at some point. Ultimately price comparisons are of limited use anyway, as both the prices they offer stuff at and the prices average consumers can buy stuff for from NewEgg and such are constantly changing, so the value of these reviews is more in seeing if the company does things right, such as having BIOS and drivers up to date for shipping time and such, or if the overclock is indeed stable (if lazy).Plus, this isn't even the most overpriced machine I have seen today, our lab got a quote for a piece of equipment this morning that included $1395 for a system listed as a 2.0GHz C2D, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, DVD/RW, 17" LCD, and WinXP Pro.
Soldier1969 - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
I dont know all that much about the company, but I have this case pictured and its incredible! Great cooling with 7 fans. Reminds me of a Stormtrooper from Star Wars. Some people that seen it think something from the USS Enterprise. Awesome spacing and easy to add parts to. If your doing a new build or adding hardware, order one youll love it!Bonesdad - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
That is an amazingly ugly case. I would be embarrassed to have that hideous thing in my house. I am an adult, though. Maybe some 14 year old would think it's "awesome", but ...oh forget it.Dustin Sklavos - Thursday, September 2, 2010 - link
It's funny, I've had a couple of people come over to look at the case and we've all reached the same conclusion: it's kind of tacky, but appealing in an awesomely tacky "this looks like an imperial stormtrooper" kind of way. I like the case as a curio, but for my own build I'd still rather use my Antec P182.Dragging40 - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
This is a very nice computer! Win I win the lotto, this will be the one I buywolfman3k5 - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
You may do your own search on youtube about how actual iBuyPower systems look like that are being shipped to customers, but for reference here is a video from May, 2010:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKZD4BFAo8k&fea...
I wouldn't say that it looks any better than from what an average Joe with average computer hardware skills would put together.
Just my 2 cents.
JarredWalton - Friday, September 3, 2010 - link
I'm not sure what you'd want it to be. Since the switch to SATA in place of the old IDE cables, wiring has become less critical IMO. Anyway, I've played with old Falcon Northwest and VoodooPC computers in the past, with immaculate wiring jobs. The problem is that if you ever need to replace something, or add hardware, or whatever it's a total pain in the butt. Then again, I don't care about case lighting or windows, so all I need is wiring that isn't terrible. iBUYPOWER doesn't do much beyond what an enthusiast can do, but if you were to ask me to build a similar system I'd probably charge $200 and I wouldn't be providing free tech support.Notleh - Saturday, September 4, 2010 - link
1) Personally, I love the look of the white Phantom case. I am friggin sick of boring black rectangles.2) You are spot on with the i7 overclock. You can get 4.0-4.2 easily on air cooling. With that 2X120mm radiator they should have no problems hitting at least 4.0ghz.
3) I think you are a bit off on 470GTX. Yes, to your comments about heat and power. But the 470GTX is at a sweet spot right now, since you can pick up a pair of them for $440. When run in SLI they are very competitive at that price. Not needed for a single monitor run at normal res, but VERY nice for high res or multi-monitor.
4) The cable sleeving argument is mildly retarded. Nowadays you can just buy the colored, pre-sleeved cable extensions from NZXT directly or newegg or frozencpu for like 6-10 bucks. They look fantastic. Not to mention the fact that this case has so much room and amazing airflow that sleeving isnt much of a performance issue.
Anyway, nice review. You marked your issues but still made a call at the end. I wouldn't go prebuilt since I could build my own, but this isn't a bad build or a bad price. Rock on Dustin.
wolfman3k5 - Saturday, September 4, 2010 - link
The cable sleeving argument was mine. I wasn't talking about pres-sleeved extensions, which is probably what they've used. Yes they look fantastic, and no, I didn't know that you could buy them for NZXT power supplies. I've done cable sleeving in the past and it is very time consuming, not to mention expensive if you do a whole computer (~$60 to $70 in materials alone). My point was that I couldn't believe that they would take the time to sleeve cables at this price point, but since there are extensions that you can buy readily available, it is more plausible.I agree with you on the GTX 470. I've just picked up a pair of Gigabyte GTX470 (reference cards, probably made by the same manufacturer who makes all the other GTX 470 cards) for ~$500 from NewEgg. Maybe in some amazing combo, they would cost $440 for a pair. But right now they are actually the best bang for the buck when used in SLI.
Hitting 4.0GHz requeres a little bit of skill, regardless of the motherboard that they where using. However, 3.5GHz was easy to attain. The reviewer meant that the overclock was poorly tuned when he said that it was "lazy", not that the CPU wasn't set at a higher speed.
Will Robinson - Sunday, September 5, 2010 - link
Enough with the "You can easily get 4GHz on air" comments.Do you even have one?
A Core i7 WILL overclock stably to 3.8GHZ without too much tweaking but after that it requires voltage increases that rapidly increase system temps and often result in INstability.
I have mine under water cooling and with summer ambient temp,anything over 3.8GHz heats things up very quickly.
I know it sounds so hardcore boasting about 4GHz overclocks but in the real world its not as "gosh darn" child's play as you state.
Notleh - Saturday, September 4, 2010 - link
You can buy them at Fry's for $249 each and they have a $30 rebate. I got a similar deal a month ago that Galaxy posted on the [H}ardocp forums.I see what you mean on the OC. Weaksauce adjustments to Bclk, vcore and such...which led to a weak overclock. If I am paying for an expert to build my system I would expect it to be properly tuned.
Wolfman, how are you liking those 470's? I am very pleased with mine running 3 monitors in NVSurround.
Sleeved cables ($10 for 24 pin in black/red/white):
http://nzxt.com/new/products/premium_cables/cb_24p
470 deal:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1543978
wolfman3k5 - Saturday, September 4, 2010 - link
I love the my pair of GTX 470. IMHO they're the best bang for the buck right now, period. I got a pair of Gigabyte GTX 470 from NewEgg (it was an order for a whole system), and with the combos and MIR I got my pair same as you, for $440. Again, I highly recommend the cards in SLI.Sabresiberian - Sunday, September 5, 2010 - link
This article is a perfect example of why I don't buy a pre-built.Power supply made by who? The people who build machines to sell will find ways to cut corners. Overclocked by a factory monkey who cared the first 100 machines he/she built, but frankly the job is getting a bit old and doesn't really pay all that well to begin with. Besides, time is money, and spending a extra couple of hours with your boss breathing down your neck isn't fun, even if you still enjoy the actual work. Been there, done that.
Okay, I imagine there are a few who don't cut corners, but they don't sell machines under $3k. Most don't even bother to check with mainboard manufacturers and see if the components they use have been tested, or see if Microsoft has approved it for Win 7. I'm not saying iBUYPOWER is that sloppy, but many manufacturers are.
As far as video card overkill - all I have to say is, I play WoW on a system using an i7 920 OC'd to 4.1GHz running Crossfired 5770s and it can't hold 1920x1200 @ 85 Hz everywhere in the game with all settings on "Ultra", so I'll believe 2 470s in SLI, even with their much greater power and scalability, will be more power than I need when I see it - and that's before I buy a bigger monitor with more pixels to generate. The fact is, standard these days is 1920x1080 and a bunch of us have more than that (I'm running old school still, and far better than most of you, which is the reason I can run @ 85 Hz. Hz=refresh rate=fps for those of you unfamiliar with the nomenclature); this system is far from overkill. We run 2 monitors (or more), Sony GDM FW900s, The Dell U2711, 30" monitors, or a variety of other options other than the average setup.
(Not putting down "the average setup" or anything else. I also have an LCD running 1920x1200@60Hz, and it is a nice monitor. TN monitors have come a long way. But then, so have other screen types.)
Granted, WoW is a CPU intensive game and not strictly speaking a fair judge of video card performance (but it is a great judge of overall computer video performance); and the WoW tech boys and girls need to step up and bring the game in to modern times and take advantage of the video card power we have these days (maybe they are going to do it in Cataclysm, but I'm not holding my breath. Regardless, even software doing mostly traditional CPU style work is wasting a modern computer's power if it's not taking advantage of the GPU to share the load - the 2 systems are not as separate in function as they once were, and software engineers should be taking advantage of that.) but the video card setup does have a big impact.
We also now have 3D with a 120Hz requirement@ 1920x1080 (Didn't I just read an article talking about how much better the experience of 120Hz was over 60Hz here in Anandtech?), monitors capable of 10-bit color becoming mainstream, and LCD television screens capable of 240Hz. The video capabilities of a computer like this are far from overkill.
;)