As much as I am loathe to defend Lexicon and the whole Oppo debate, using this as an example for THX being good or bad, at least for the reasons people have been citing, is incorrect because:
- Oppo didn't submit the player for THX certification, for whatever reason (cost, not caring about it, I don't know) so the Oppo can't be THX certified if you buy it from Oppo
- Lexicon did submit it for THX certification, and since the Oppo is very well designed and can pass everything that THX needs for video certification, it can be THX certified when sold by Lexicon, but not by Oppo, since Lexicon paid the fee for testing and the label
- It's not THX certified for the audio section, as people have found that the 80Hz crossover doesn't have the correct slopes or crossover point to fit the THX standard.
- THX has nothing to do with Lexicon using the Oppo for their player, or what it sells for, and to say that THX shouldn't certify products that conforms to their specs because someone else designed part of it (which would eliminate most gear out there), or the price is too high, would remove most THX certifications out there.
I'd also cross over those Studio 20's at around 60 Hz or so myself, since the driver is going to have to work much harder to go full range, and the receiver will be working harder than if it was passing that material off to a subwoofer. Also, you'll be missing out on most, if not all, information below 45Hz or so unless you have double bass turned on in your receiver (not the best idea).
I have fronts that can run down to around 24Hz for their -3 db point and I still will cross them over at 40 Hz or so, to make it easier for the amp to drive them, and I have the option to run them full range (no sub) if I am passing in analog from a turntable or a CD player, which perhaps is how you'd want to run the Studio 20's.
Is there any way to determine whether a THX product is certified for audio only or video only before a company is called out like Lexicon was? I just see the THX logo on the device itself and marketroid literature touting "THX certification." I don't recall seeing any marketing or sales information on the Lexicon or other products that makes the distinction that THX is now making.
Given the strong audio features of this device, not being very clear about what is actually being certified is seriously misleading.
I remember choosing my first home cinema receiver when DVD's were first introduced. At the time there was a lot of forum chatter about THX certification, Yamaha's stance at the time was that they did as stringent as tests as THX, and therefore didn't see the need in upping the cost just for the badge.
Ok that's could just be PR, but the 2nd comment from the same source also stated that THX is meant for home movies, not general purpose (ie stereo music playback).
And they we're right, at the time Yamaha's were also considered the best for 2ch music AND movie viewing...the THX'd Denons were good for movie, and so so for music.
Point is that THX emphasises the movie experiance, sometimes to the degredation of other uses of the equipment.
THX is a marketing label implying a certain level of quality. It really just means a given product meats a predefined set of measurements. Measurements don't necessarily mean it sounds or looks good.
If you're looking at a monitor like you would watch a movie, in a darkened room without people interrupting every minute, you will likely find what works for you, label or not.
Same goes for sound, I didn't like the THX settings. They sounded flat and thin to me. I experimented with different settings in the store to see how much latitude I would have at home. I ended up with different equipment than I thought I was going to buy. I have small speakers running on full size and I went through a number of subwoofer crossover settings to find the best blend for my room. If the sub is set too high it won't disappear and for me 80hz is like a flashing light. Knocked it down to 60hz and it all seams to blend much better.
Like the author, experiment with your settings for both monitor and sound and you can get very good results without spending silly money.
"When THX certifies a piece of hardware – say, an A/V receiver – it works closely with the company building the receiver"
THX might want people to think this, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this isn't true. For example, many products are THX certified by a company that simply rebadges the product, even though the original manufacturer was never involved in THX certification and continues to sell the product under their brand without THX certification.
After reading about all of the foolishness surrounding the THX certification of the new Lexicon BD player, I would be hesitant to pay any material premium for THX certified equipment.
I acually think THX is much more pertinent to video than audio. Since good audio is a relative unknown to most and thus highly subjective the THX certification doesn't hold much ground.
The $400 you spend on the Z-5500 THX speaker system probably does deserve certification for it's combination of sound, price, and features all rolled into one complete system. But it won't sound as good as another system that's pieced together using higher quality parts and no THX certification of any kind. Course the price is going to be a bit more.
That $400 could start you off with a kick-ass 2.0 or 2.1 system (depending on how much you want to spend on the sub) that you could eventually expand into a truly awesome 4.1 or 5.1 surround sound system that destroys the Z-5500. Example: the B2030P's and a Dayton sub.
Took panasonic a whole year to make my THX badged TC-50G10 Plasma look even close to what they promised. A visit to avsforum will show how long THX made people look anemic (Magenta was WAY off)
I think more attention needs to be paid to images being displayed at the correct aspect ratio. With the advent of widescreen TV's, people seem only too willing to tolerate distorted images, as well as super-saturated colours. When I watch motorcycle racing, I prefer to see round things look round, but I found that it was impossible to get an otherwise fairly decent quality Sony bravia HD TV to display things correctly. I find that far more important than getting the surround sound helicopter audio right.
Setting your speakers to "Small" and having an 80Hz crossover is not just a THX recommendation. It's a universally accepted method for achieving proper calibration. The only time you set your speakers to "Large" is if you don't have a subwoofer. The auto-calibration on many AVR's often set this incorrectly.
If your speakers do perform well at 50Hz, you can experiment with the crossover, but you need to set your speakers to "Small". However, your Studio 20's for example are actually rated ±2dB from 54Hz-22kHz. So your crossover should at least be 60Hz.
I found that adding a subwoofer breathed new life into my Mission speakers, with the Missions set to small even though they're rated down to 40Hz.
Just because speakers can handle low frequencies doesn't mean you should let them. My Missions were muddy in the midrange because the bass was swamping them.
Removing that bass from them allows them to do a far better job with the midrange. Result, no muddiness.
THX is a waste of time in consumer products, is doesn't mean anything about quality. The audio and video fields are full of smoke and mirrors. Actual calibrated measurements are the only thing you can trust. 90% of audiophiles are idiots that like to spend money and brag about how good their $10,000 interconnects sound. Subjective results are only as good as the person doing the testing.
I'd disagree with that. The highly trained ear can hear the difference in quality between the "$10,000 Interconnects", but the reality is that the vast majority of A/V snobs really aren't trained at all.
The vast majority of people don't know what really does sound "good". Also, calibration is really only good to the consumer, not to the person doing the testing. In fact, you could easily argue that none of the calibration matters to anyone other than the consumer - if it doesn't look or sound good to the consumer, you're just wasting your time. Oh, and it has to actually look good, not look good because some calibration expert says so...
Nice read. I'd be interested to hear more about your "room acoustics" training and possibly setups to combat those problem with small spaces, or worse, small spaces with high ceilings.
Thanks for the info, I like the breadth of Anandtech's content lately. Not just procs and video cards, but more.
Nice explanation of THX and the lab processes behind the logo. The usual top quality from one of the best writers in the field.
I consider myself a pretty average A/V buyer; I am not confused at all by the various THX standards, nor by the feature set of a particular product. THX is one thing and feature set is another. Read the literature for the models under consideration, and decide away.
As for the LCD certification, my local high-end A/V store has a fairly good viewing set-up. The side-by-side comparison of the same model with THX turned on and off shows clearly the superior picture quality of the certification mode. Even sports looks better, to these eyes.
I conclude that, for me, THX certification in both audio and video is a valuable factor in selecting new products.
Don't confuse Quality Hardware with Quality Content. The former, I think that George Lucas has done some rather impressive (positive) things with. The latter, well, I point you to the Teen Angst riddled shlock of Annakin Skywalker as portrayed by Hayden Christensen (caveat - I was over 30 when those movies came out).
While the movies were terrible to experience in a language I can speak and understand, the visual and audio splendor I thought was extremely high quality. All of the mechanics of the films were excellent. The other half of my brain, however, died a little watching them.
Don't confuse Quality Hardware with Quality Content. The former, I think that George Lucas has done some rather impressive (positive) things with. The latter, well, I point you to the Teen Angst riddled shlock of Annakin Skywalker as portrayed by Hayden Christensen (caveat - I was over 30 when those movies came out).
While the movies were terrible to experience in a language I can speak and understand, the visual and audio splendor I thought was extremely high quality. All of the mechanics of the films were excellent. The other half of my brain, however, died a little watching them.
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Ram21 - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
I enjoyed this piece, excellent description of THX certifications.cheinonen - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
As much as I am loathe to defend Lexicon and the whole Oppo debate, using this as an example for THX being good or bad, at least for the reasons people have been citing, is incorrect because:- Oppo didn't submit the player for THX certification, for whatever reason (cost, not caring about it, I don't know) so the Oppo can't be THX certified if you buy it from Oppo
- Lexicon did submit it for THX certification, and since the Oppo is very well designed and can pass everything that THX needs for video certification, it can be THX certified when sold by Lexicon, but not by Oppo, since Lexicon paid the fee for testing and the label
- It's not THX certified for the audio section, as people have found that the 80Hz crossover doesn't have the correct slopes or crossover point to fit the THX standard.
- THX has nothing to do with Lexicon using the Oppo for their player, or what it sells for, and to say that THX shouldn't certify products that conforms to their specs because someone else designed part of it (which would eliminate most gear out there), or the price is too high, would remove most THX certifications out there.
I'd also cross over those Studio 20's at around 60 Hz or so myself, since the driver is going to have to work much harder to go full range, and the receiver will be working harder than if it was passing that material off to a subwoofer. Also, you'll be missing out on most, if not all, information below 45Hz or so unless you have double bass turned on in your receiver (not the best idea).
I have fronts that can run down to around 24Hz for their -3 db point and I still will cross them over at 40 Hz or so, to make it easier for the amp to drive them, and I have the option to run them full range (no sub) if I am passing in analog from a turntable or a CD player, which perhaps is how you'd want to run the Studio 20's.
queequeg99 - Tuesday, March 9, 2010 - link
Is there any way to determine whether a THX product is certified for audio only or video only before a company is called out like Lexicon was? I just see the THX logo on the device itself and marketroid literature touting "THX certification." I don't recall seeing any marketing or sales information on the Lexicon or other products that makes the distinction that THX is now making.Given the strong audio features of this device, not being very clear about what is actually being certified is seriously misleading.
cjb110 - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
I remember choosing my first home cinema receiver when DVD's were first introduced. At the time there was a lot of forum chatter about THX certification, Yamaha's stance at the time was that they did as stringent as tests as THX, and therefore didn't see the need in upping the cost just for the badge.Ok that's could just be PR, but the 2nd comment from the same source also stated that THX is meant for home movies, not general purpose (ie stereo music playback).
And they we're right, at the time Yamaha's were also considered the best for 2ch music AND movie viewing...the THX'd Denons were good for movie, and so so for music.
Point is that THX emphasises the movie experiance, sometimes to the degredation of other uses of the equipment.
knutjb - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - link
THX is a marketing label implying a certain level of quality. It really just means a given product meats a predefined set of measurements. Measurements don't necessarily mean it sounds or looks good.If you're looking at a monitor like you would watch a movie, in a darkened room without people interrupting every minute, you will likely find what works for you, label or not.
Same goes for sound, I didn't like the THX settings. They sounded flat and thin to me. I experimented with different settings in the store to see how much latitude I would have at home. I ended up with different equipment than I thought I was going to buy. I have small speakers running on full size and I went through a number of subwoofer crossover settings to find the best blend for my room. If the sub is set too high it won't disappear and for me 80hz is like a flashing light. Knocked it down to 60hz and it all seams to blend much better.
Like the author, experiment with your settings for both monitor and sound and you can get very good results without spending silly money.
jabber - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - link
....after the Lexicon/Oppo scandal a few weeks ago.Badge for sale!
cosmotic - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - link
Is in no way consistent. Temperature, quantity, and taste all differ way too much.shotage - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Thanks Loyd, this was a good read.I look forward to a few more articles touching on similar topics i.e. sound!
Keep up the good work!
idealego - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
"When THX certifies a piece of hardware – say, an A/V receiver – it works closely with the company building the receiver"THX might want people to think this, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that this isn't true. For example, many products are THX certified by a company that simply rebadges the product, even though the original manufacturer was never involved in THX certification and continues to sell the product under their brand without THX certification.
queequeg99 - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
After reading about all of the foolishness surrounding the THX certification of the new Lexicon BD player, I would be hesitant to pay any material premium for THX certified equipment.Rankor - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Good read on THX. I thought it applied only to sound systems considering it's the THX sound I always heard at the movie theaters.I remember when (Loyd) was writing articles in CGW.
Patrick Wolf - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
I acually think THX is much more pertinent to video than audio. Since good audio is a relative unknown to most and thus highly subjective the THX certification doesn't hold much ground.The $400 you spend on the Z-5500 THX speaker system probably does deserve certification for it's combination of sound, price, and features all rolled into one complete system. But it won't sound as good as another system that's pieced together using higher quality parts and no THX certification of any kind. Course the price is going to be a bit more.
That $400 could start you off with a kick-ass 2.0 or 2.1 system (depending on how much you want to spend on the sub) that you could eventually expand into a truly awesome 4.1 or 5.1 surround sound system that destroys the Z-5500. Example: the B2030P's and a Dayton sub.
Rankor - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
How did you know about my Logitechs? ;)I actually have 5300z(s) running on 5 yrs now.
marraco - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
I do ever do this test: I paint the screen in black, then cut a square wite rectangle, and move it all over the screen.If the rectangle leaves a ghostly trail, the screen is bad, and blur fast moving images.
That is the most important quality factor to me, but I don't get a clue about it from Reviews. I wish that were better considered in reviews.
piasabird - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
So where is the sound system? How large of a speaker is this great vibrant sound suppose to come our and fill a large living room?Show me the speakers?
gersson - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Took panasonic a whole year to make my THX badged TC-50G10 Plasma look even close to what they promised. A visit to avsforum will show how long THX made people look anemic (Magenta was WAY off)Kulamata - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Very nice to see Loyd settling in so well at Anandtech. Good article/review, I've not seen anything like it anywhere else.piasabird - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
I was looking for a new TV and I might purchase a Samsung LN37C550.It has a technology called Allshare. It is suppose to be able to use Applications like an I-Phone, and share Internet TV like HULU or whatever.
http://www.devwebpro.com/samsung-shows-off-wide-ar...">http://www.devwebpro.com/samsung-shows-off-wide-ar...
This is a brand new Model.
blowfish - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
I think more attention needs to be paid to images being displayed at the correct aspect ratio. With the advent of widescreen TV's, people seem only too willing to tolerate distorted images, as well as super-saturated colours. When I watch motorcycle racing, I prefer to see round things look round, but I found that it was impossible to get an otherwise fairly decent quality Sony bravia HD TV to display things correctly. I find that far more important than getting the surround sound helicopter audio right.Ushio01 - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
The way you put it THX sounds like Feng shui for sound.Patrick Wolf - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Setting your speakers to "Small" and having an 80Hz crossover is not just a THX recommendation. It's a universally accepted method for achieving proper calibration. The only time you set your speakers to "Large" is if you don't have a subwoofer. The auto-calibration on many AVR's often set this incorrectly.If your speakers do perform well at 50Hz, you can experiment with the crossover, but you need to set your speakers to "Small". However, your Studio 20's for example are actually rated ±2dB from 54Hz-22kHz. So your crossover should at least be 60Hz.
SeanFowler - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
I found that adding a subwoofer breathed new life into my Mission speakers, with the Missions set to small even though they're rated down to 40Hz.Just because speakers can handle low frequencies doesn't mean you should let them. My Missions were muddy in the midrange because the bass was swamping them.
Removing that bass from them allows them to do a far better job with the midrange. Result, no muddiness.
jkostans - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - link
THX is a waste of time in consumer products, is doesn't mean anything about quality. The audio and video fields are full of smoke and mirrors. Actual calibrated measurements are the only thing you can trust. 90% of audiophiles are idiots that like to spend money and brag about how good their $10,000 interconnects sound. Subjective results are only as good as the person doing the testing.erple2 - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
I'd disagree with that. The highly trained ear can hear the difference in quality between the "$10,000 Interconnects", but the reality is that the vast majority of A/V snobs really aren't trained at all.The vast majority of people don't know what really does sound "good". Also, calibration is really only good to the consumer, not to the person doing the testing. In fact, you could easily argue that none of the calibration matters to anyone other than the consumer - if it doesn't look or sound good to the consumer, you're just wasting your time. Oh, and it has to actually look good, not look good because some calibration expert says so...
jkostans - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
Just proved my point I thinkvol7ron - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Loyd,Nice read. I'd be interested to hear more about your "room acoustics" training and possibly setups to combat those problem with small spaces, or worse, small spaces with high ceilings.
Thanks for the info, I like the breadth of Anandtech's content lately. Not just procs and video cards, but more.
vol7ron
gmallen - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
Nice explanation of THX and the lab processes behind the logo. The usual top quality from one of the best writers in the field.I consider myself a pretty average A/V buyer; I am not confused at all by the various THX standards, nor by the feature set of a particular product. THX is one thing and feature set is another. Read the literature for the models under consideration, and decide away.
As for the LCD certification, my local high-end A/V store has a fairly good viewing set-up. The side-by-side comparison of the same model with THX turned on and off shows clearly the superior picture quality of the certification mode. Even sports looks better, to these eyes.
I conclude that, for me, THX certification in both audio and video is a valuable factor in selecting new products.
DirtFace - Saturday, March 6, 2010 - link
When I think of THX I think of George Lucas. And when I think of George Lucas nowadays, the last thing on my mind is quality.erple2 - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
Don't confuse Quality Hardware with Quality Content. The former, I think that George Lucas has done some rather impressive (positive) things with. The latter, well, I point you to the Teen Angst riddled shlock of Annakin Skywalker as portrayed by Hayden Christensen (caveat - I was over 30 when those movies came out).While the movies were terrible to experience in a language I can speak and understand, the visual and audio splendor I thought was extremely high quality. All of the mechanics of the films were excellent. The other half of my brain, however, died a little watching them.
erple2 - Monday, March 8, 2010 - link
Don't confuse Quality Hardware with Quality Content. The former, I think that George Lucas has done some rather impressive (positive) things with. The latter, well, I point you to the Teen Angst riddled shlock of Annakin Skywalker as portrayed by Hayden Christensen (caveat - I was over 30 when those movies came out).While the movies were terrible to experience in a language I can speak and understand, the visual and audio splendor I thought was extremely high quality. All of the mechanics of the films were excellent. The other half of my brain, however, died a little watching them.