if you're not only into media center but also in home automation software, maybe you should check out the LinuxMCE project. That's based on Kubuntu (which in turn is based on Debian as we all know), so you'll get not only a solid MythTV-based media centre, but also a "one-button" setup to dim your lights, start the necessary hardware, all that.
Do yourself a favour and look at their video; I'm sure you would like that one. A friend of mine got addicted to the idea instantly, and he's now selling HTPCs.
I'm interested in building one as well. One thing I'd like to do is to put my movie collection onto the HDD. I'm tired of swapping DVD's in and out of the player. Only problem is, I don't know what program to use to rip DVD's onto the computer. Any help would be appreciated.
You posted the tools, I'm curious about what you end up with, file-wise, for your digital library. I'm very interested in encoding my own DVD collection. Any suggestions, guidelines?
I have researched this board and it is my understanding that the HDMI output does not render 5.1 but only 2 ch stereo. Have you tried connecting the hdmi to a receiver and verify if it indeed outputs 5.1?
anand, if having weired problems and/or picture and sound not up to mark...try isolating htpc...meaning component output for video and optical for sound...to av amplifier, which hopefully has a good upscaler, I have a z9 that does a good job once drm's removed...(to drm enforcers I say that I promise to use 'my' movies I bought with 'my' money for 'my' fair use...so take this as end user term that goes with my purchase of your video or which you want my money)...
a computer is notorious for constant changing current demand, hence varing volatages at the micro level causing all sort of electronic harmonics that escape with digital outputs like dvi and hdmi...causing havoc with da converters downstream...
I was trying out media server as well...just like the idea of having all my vast collection of movies on server, so dont have to move too far from the beer and popcorn to change if a movie is not achieving the desired feeling wanted...
Sam
~Ps...guys this is not two rich fat slobs discussing...once you get to your forty's you find that most of us have some extra cash for our 'toys' and leave the women to their 'boytoys';
I have been dabbling with HTPCs for a few years, though I'm certainly not an expert. I think most people underestimate the effort required and all of the stupid limitations placed on the user due to DRM or just the software maker. For example, want cable card? You'll have to go to Dell or HP if you want that and you can only use Vista MCE. Want to record sattelite HDTV? They are coming out with something you can attach to your PC soon, but it's not out yet to my knowledge. Want to watch live or recorded TV using another computer? Not something that's really supported with XP or Vista MCE. Sure, you can use an XBox 360 or a special extender, but not that spare PC you have lying around.
Stability is of the utmost importance. Much testing must be done to ensure it all works right including the remote control. I generally charge 2 to 3 times the build cost for a HTPC due to all of the testing required to ensure it works right.
I don't understand the extreme dedication to building a quiet and good-looking HTPC in Anand's situation. If it's in a separate room, you probably won't be able to hear it over the fan noise from your projector. You can mount your Blu-Ray drive externally with USB or eSATA. Depending on how you set it up, RAID may not really be a requirement unless you want the redundancy. If you have trouble with stuttering, drop the RAID array as some people have reported stuttering primarly with BIOS-based RAID arrays.
HTPC support by hardware and software makers is somewhat lacking too. Try using a GeForce 8 with XP and 1080i ATSC HDTV. NVidia still hasn't, to my knowledge, implemented proper hardware support for MPEG2 deinterlacing under their XP drivers, so you get this weird stuttering that you don't get with a GeForce 7 or an AMD card. It works in Vista. Of course, this "feature" isn't documented anywhere, so it took me the better part of 6 months to figure this out. My AMD 3650 suffers weird random crashing when I open or close BeyondTV and/or PowerDVD.
Lastly, it will be difficult to find a single, slick-looking interface that integrates your TV, movies, and music. At least, from the sound of it, Anand isn't doing TV on the HTPC. Honestly, Anand, if you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of the HTPC world, do some work with HDTV and see where you get.
I have had an almost identical set up for 2 years since My Movies came out. I never knew you could use a different title interface with the My Movies database then again I guess I never tried. My set up is...
1 Media Center 2005 machine with 2 X 320GB HDD's, Core 2 6600. XFX Nvidia 8600GS with HDMI out it also HAS AUDIO TOO :) Intel 965SS, 2GB of DDR2 800, Samsung 46" LCD. Onkyo Receiver with 7.1 & it up converts every thing to 1080P. Getting a BR drive soon.
A server in the basement based on an Intel 955X board 8 SATA ports, Over 3TB of storage on 3 sets of RAID 1 PER TB, Server SMB Ed 2003 OS, 2GB of 667MHz RAM, P4 3.4GHz.
Xbox 360 in the bedroom "have fun getting that to work with My Moves it took 2 months to get the Xbox to stream movies.
All I can say is "Transcoder & REG hacks" and a lot of cursing!
Another Media center/Workstation in my "Computer Room" almost the same set up as the first machine & a gaming machine with an overclocked Q6600 with a Dual boot Media Center 2005 & Vista HP on a raid 0 with 2 WD 120GB HDD's 2GB Corsair 667MHz, 680i Nvidia chipset 'About too upgrade to the 790 ultra but I need DDR3.
24" Samsung LCD and a DVI KVM to connect them both.
I'd suggest tossing the skimpy SSD that will not hold much in the way of media files. Ditch all internal storage all toghether. In it's place I'd suggest using a remote storage unit like F-CAL (idealy), eSATA, external SAS, NAS, or a network bootable OS. This way, you can have large amounts of hard disc storage but the noise could be kept in another part of the house like the garage or attic. This would also solve the problem you are having with that Silverstone chassis.
Anand, I've been checking back every day for updates to the HT blog, it looks like it's coming together beautifully. The theater itself looks like it will be amazing.
A few questions on the HTPC:
- you're planning on an iPhone remote control interface, and you're installing a 35U rack... so why even bother with an ATX/mATX case? Why not throw in a supermicro or similar rack enclosure that has room to grow on the HDD front. They have a 4U 16 drive box right now.
- I'm with the others on the HDD/SSD... why not go diskless and do a network boot? With gig-E at commodity status and 10-Gb-E on the horizon, it shouldn't even be a bottleneck.
- finally: which slot-loading dvd/bluray drive are you planning on using with your new case?
HTPCs are somewhat of a hobby of mine. I think I am on my 6th one and the 7th has been in planning for some time now.
Unlike the previous 6 which used Shuttle barebones, the 7th will use an Antec case, the NSK2480. Why? Two, slow turning 120mm fans on the right side of the case blow right across the CPU area allowing the the use of a Sycthe Mini Ninja without a fan.
Nice Micro-ATX case, quality manufacturer, blends well with typical home theater components and no nasty sharp edges. If you feel the need for a VFD, Antec also has an upscale version of the NSK that has one. I just use a left over LCD monitor in the place of the VFD with my current Shuttle based HTPC.
What I find interesting as well is that as I have gotten deeper and deeper in to my HTPC forays things have gotten cheaper and cheaper!
I've been dinking around with HTPCs for several years. The thing that finally sold me on SageTV is their HDMI HD extender. It is a small, fanless box that works great except updating the flash takes *forever*. I have my server in the basement so it can be as big and loud as I want. (No more bloody hands trying to get things to fit in small HTPC cases.) A Harmony 1000 remote with IR blasters and Z-Wave lets me put all the pieces behind closed doors and set up lighting profiles for actions.
The default SageTV UI is ugly as sin, but there's enough third party tweaks out there to take care of that and add a web server so I can admin stuff remotely. DVD Profiler does the movie cataloging and the SageMC UI for SageTV picks up all the cover art and info and stuff. ShowAnalyzer does all the commercial skip work and you never even see that there is a commercial.
I use SlimServer for music because frankly that's not a SageTV strong point. But that lets me stream all over the house (and my PDA outside) and do things like let the kid's SB just list their music. I have a Roku wireless boombox for the bathroom and it feeds off of SlimServer fine.
SageTV doesn't do Blu-Ray. You can rip it I guess according to some post in their forums and get the main movie in a container it'll play, but seemed like too much work. So, the PS3 does that and you can get a USB plug so the Harmony can control it with RF including power. That's the only thing I miss, but I just rent Blu-Ray fro Netflix, so not going to be ripping it anyway.
It's as close as I've gotten to media nirvana. That'll probably change in a year or so. But it's really worth looking into.
I got my TF11, its a awesome case and the entire case is rock solid. There is no plastic inside the case except the harddrive mount bracket. Even the dvdburner button to eject a discs metal!!
It comes in a beautiful black box and even comes with gloves and a screw driver. Infortunately im still waiting for the IR Kit and the OLED screen.
Mark my words, only thing that could rival this case is an Origin AE S16v or the S21T. Btw I holds 4 80mm fans, 2 stock size and 2 80x80x15 size (I took the cardreader out and now it holds 4 stock sized 80mm fans.
when most people use .mkv files it means they have downloaded ILLEGAL movies. So is Anand spending so much money on hardware he can't afford to BUY movies and now is probably facing fines from the RIAA?..
If you have the hardware, Anand's plan makes perfect sense. Why bother swapping disks around and taking most of the fun away from the iPhone interface. All Anand needs to do is buy the disks on BluRay and rip them at say 25gigs a pop. His 10TB RAID set-up can hold 400 such rips, a pretty nice library. With that done, all a visitor to AnandTheater sees is Anand sit down in his relaxing theater seating, pull his iPhone out of his pocket, and press a couple buttons. No walking to a closet and looking through a huge stack, no opening up another closed and revealing a PC, no whistle soundtrack as the drive starts to spin, no smudges or scratches...piracy is clearly not the only reason to use such a setup.
Or rather than ripping at full bitrate, you could reencode to something smaller, so you can get 5-10GB per movie and still have a good quality 1080P output. AutoMKV is the new tool for stuff like that.
I rip all of my movies to h264 + ac3 in a mkv container. Just because you illegally download movies in mkv format does not mean that everyone else does also.
You know, you can rip bluray, bluray rips are also available online.... In fact I think anand specificall discussed ripping "high deffinition content" in mkv format... what do you think he means?
Ok, so how does that iPhone web interface work? I was thinking of developing somethign for PPC that would allow roughly the same kind of access, but I guess if there's stuff in the works I'll just check that out.
It's just a web interface that happens to work in the iPhone browser. You could also access it from a laptop or desktop on your network.
I'd love to see a developer come up with a native iPhone app for controlling media setups, though I expect there'd need to be some special software running on your media pc.
1) Develop an iPhone optimized website (ala digg.com/iphone or iphone.facebook.com), or
2) Create an iPhone application that triggers web services running on the HTPC itself.
With the SDK due out this summer, I'm hoping the latter will be a possibility.
Check out myTV plugin for media center for managing your tv shows. It works much better the video brower or mymovies because it uses a full database and downloads all the episode and show information from the web. I use it to manage all my recorded and downloaded shows.
Also are you going to install a ATSC tuner? This is one of the best things about media center. I have dish too but the offair recoreded shows look much better on media center than on dish.
If I were you I would move the storage for the dvds and media to a fileserver dedicated for this purpose. You can then not have to worry so much about noise because you can hide it away from the rest of the rack. I run a gigabit network and have no problem playing recored HD shows or ripped dvds on 3 differant computers at a time. The only storage I have in my media center pcs is for recording show off the offair antenna. This is only because some nights I am recording up to 3 hd shows at a time and I am afraid that that and the playback may be a little to much for the network to handle.
Also myMovies and myTV both work great in a client/server setup you can put the database servers on the media server and then any changes you make on one computer will be reflected on all.
I have also tested a htpc with the same chipset that you are using and to me it seems to be really slow compared to my other intel/nvidia based htpc. It even has some trouble decoding recoreded hd shows fast enough to not to get skips and audio sync issues. I would stay away from it.
Why have any drive at all? Why not just boot over you network? No drives, so less heat and less power needed.
You could probably get away with a much smaller case as well.
I love the idea of using an IPhone/IPod touch as a super remote. Seems like a great idea for home automation in general.
Since your content is in a NAS and not in the HTPC itself, why use a hdd at all?
I simple 4-8GB usb key or CF/SD/... would suffice for the boot drive and draw less power too
access times and transfer speeds shouldn't matter too much because you dont need to boot it up too often
I have enough hardware to get started on this same project. I have 2 different AMD mATX systems, one with a 3600 one with a 5000 CPU. I also just bought a Q6600 when Frys had them for $180, received an Asus G35 board last night. I also purchased a Saphire 3470 on Egg-sale for $40 if needed. I have several WD 640GB drives available. I have spent a lot of time testing with networking equipment and have achieved a 109MBytes/sec throughput to the WD drives. I have all the hardware necessary, but am not sure yet how to configure the system as a whole for the best setup. My current thinking is using an AMD box for the front end, use the Intel Quad horsepower for recoding and processing. I am not sure how much processing the HTPC box can do, yet still play flawless video. I'm sure I want the Intel as a 24/7 server or just a batch processing unit as needed either. Obviously, I don't want to run any more equipment 24/7 than necessary.
It would be nice to split your articles into 2 distinct groups. Group 1 would be hardware that works, or doesn't work, like you've mentioned here already, failures are great to see too. List PC and server hardware, and requirements for single and multiroom processing. Group2 would be all the software combinations tried, then accepted or rejected. The earlier post by Havor, trying many different media centers is a great idea.
A diagram of the configurations would be helpful too, both hardware and software to show how it all fits together.
How many CatX and coax cables have you run to handle this? Are you recoding DVDs into AVI? What about ISO or some other format? We haven't even mentioned the satellite/cable control yet. So many things to consider, so little time. I'm itching to fire Scumcast.
You properly have done some research on it, of withs will fit you the best but it would be interesting if you would make a article of all the pro's and con's of the various options they have to deliver.
BeyondTV is really only useful for TV, the media component (BeyondMedia) is lacking in features and is very poorly supported.
I've used MCE (both WinXP and Vista) and it's very slick but isn't as configurable as other options. Like Anand, I didn't like the default viewer for MyMovies, maybe I'll look into the one he's using.
I haven't used Sage, MediaPortal or Myth in a long while but from what I hear MP has made a lot of good progress over the last year or so since I played with it.
I'm still running meedio on my HTPC, and even though the developer sold it to yahoo there's a decent community at meedios.com keeping it going. I prefer Meedio's way of handling browsing movies - give me a list of films (I have dvd covers) to choose from, show me some brief info (plot summary, run time, lead actors and rating) and then play it. I don't need all the imdb info, and browsing by letter is a pain. It looks like the video browser anand linked might fit the bill.
I've got my own little ongoing HTPC project- so far I've personally had experience with MCE, BeyondTV and MediaPortal. My personal opinion is that MediaPortal has the best blend of extensibility, functionality, lowest resource footprint, and stability- especially since it is now finally @ RC1. It definitely surpases BTV and MCE in terms of functionality- but that's what happens when you're an opensource project and everyone contributes their own plugins. MediaPortal never had the same issues that BTV had. They've made MP TV-Server installation mandatory with RC1, which mildly complicates the install- but if you're setting up your own HTPC you can deal with it. My current rig is an Athlon X2 3800, sitting on an nVidia 6150 platform, 2 GB of ram, a TV-Wonder 650 (ATSC) and an AIW 2006 PCI-E. Once I find the right 780G board, I'm moving over to that so I can finally start pushing HDMI to my receiver. The only problem is, there's no decent setup yet for EPG in the US without paying for it.
I haven't forayed into the Linux world on my little project yet mainly because I haven't properly researched support for my hardware.
I highly recommend MediaPortal for a Windows platform, but I would love to see Anand do a review of the Linux based software. I'm considering Myth-TV, and will probably be testing it in another month on my current rig.
I totally have to agree with you on the MediaPortal option. I just recently discovered it after having Vista's MCE for the past year. The best part about it, you can design and build your own skins for it! I'm currently finishing my MFA, so after schools out, I intend to build a really nice skin for MediaPortal and use that setup for my HTPC.
I didn't see mention of what you plan to use for an optical drive, so I assume you won't have one in the final build. Will you rip movies on a separate machine and transfer them over the network? And if someone brings a Blu-ray movie over, will you be able to watch it right away, or will you have to rip it first? How long would that take?
I've got a first generation Blu-ray drive in the machine right now, but my goal is to rip the movies on a separate machine (something much faster) and copy them over the network.
If someone brings a Blu-ray movie over it should work right in the machine, but I think I'll need to get either PowerDVD or WinDVD installed for that purpose.
How come the big push for a silent/energy efficient PC? If you've got a whole rack for it, why not just put the rack in a cabinet on the outside of the theater room, with some good sound proofing and heat control.
I've been using Tversity through the 360 for a while now to stream all my content to my TV. It uses the Xbox's UI which is pretty good, and works pretty much flawlessly. It also doesn't require a dedicated HTPC.
Ohh and those speakers look way to small for how big a theater you're building.
After spending much time playing with HTPC mATX mobo's I have found that the G33 chipset works very well at decoding full VC-1 1080P with any intel core based processor.
However, the 7150 for example is TERRIBLE. I haven't tested the 8200 yet, but it sounds like it is a huge improvement.
For a nice HTPC case that does the job without breaking the bank, check out the Antec Fusion. Much cleaner case with a nearly flawless layout.
I would run your 64GB SSD in your HTPC and have all of your HDD's in a server closet in your home. Honestly, you should consider talking to Infrant (now netgear) and go with their six bay readynas. Simple and elegant solution to all of your redundant storage needs, especially how nice the X-RAID feature is... makes it easy to upgrade HDD's with little hassle.
For a HTPC I am not sure why you purchased such a massive case. With the SSD, you have a really nice opportunity to have a 100% silent PC... you could probably get away running all passive cooling.
Anyway, enjoy! The HTPC is the best part of your project!
I've undertaken a project similar to yours and noticed the xbox360's media extender ability makes it a perfect unit for a 2nd room to access your main HPC. Perhaps you could look at this feature in a future article, it might provide an interesting read for some people.
Holy Crap! I thought the title pic was the home theater of a Hollywood buff, but that's actually your setup! I'm in awe. The design, down to the color selection and the ceiling, just incredible.
Suggestion: A Contest!
Five lucky AnandTech members come hang out in your crib and watch a few movies or a game in style. Coach class is fine, we'll bring the beer, and would be just fine leaving our food and drink outside this masterpiece of a room! Seriously, do it.. :)
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Milleman - Sunday, May 11, 2008 - link
Would be a great idea for Anand to also test the LinuxMCE on the HTPC while still at it.Link: http://www.linuxmce.org/">http://www.linuxmce.org/
at80eighty - Wednesday, May 7, 2008 - link
i haven't posted in years here, but i had to stop & say hotdamn - that's a SWEET setup! you've come a long way man. congratsvailr - Monday, May 5, 2008 - link
Zalman HD160B Home Theatre PC Enclosurehttp://www.excaliberpc.com/Zalman_HD160B_Home_Thea...">http://www.excaliberpc.com/Zalman_HD160...e_HD160/...
wjl - Sunday, May 4, 2008 - link
Anand,if you're not only into media center but also in home automation software, maybe you should check out the LinuxMCE project. That's based on Kubuntu (which in turn is based on Debian as we all know), so you'll get not only a solid MythTV-based media centre, but also a "one-button" setup to dim your lights, start the necessary hardware, all that.
Do yourself a favour and look at their video; I'm sure you would like that one. A friend of mine got addicted to the idea instantly, and he's now selling HTPCs.
best,
Wolfgang
ira176 - Sunday, May 4, 2008 - link
I'm interested in building one as well. One thing I'd like to do is to put my movie collection onto the HDD. I'm tired of swapping DVD's in and out of the player. Only problem is, I don't know what program to use to rip DVD's onto the computer. Any help would be appreciated.ChuckECheese - Tuesday, May 6, 2008 - link
Try DVDFab HD Decrypter (http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm)">http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm). There's a free version that works great to rip entire DVDs or just select parts. I just rip the main movie to get rid of the previews, warnings, etc.quadraphonic - Saturday, May 3, 2008 - link
You posted the tools, I'm curious about what you end up with, file-wise, for your digital library. I'm very interested in encoding my own DVD collection. Any suggestions, guidelines?vskatusa - Saturday, May 3, 2008 - link
I have researched this board and it is my understanding that the HDMI output does not render 5.1 but only 2 ch stereo. Have you tried connecting the hdmi to a receiver and verify if it indeed outputs 5.1?Sam comment - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
anand, if having weired problems and/or picture and sound not up to mark...try isolating htpc...meaning component output for video and optical for sound...to av amplifier, which hopefully has a good upscaler, I have a z9 that does a good job once drm's removed...(to drm enforcers I say that I promise to use 'my' movies I bought with 'my' money for 'my' fair use...so take this as end user term that goes with my purchase of your video or which you want my money)...a computer is notorious for constant changing current demand, hence varing volatages at the micro level causing all sort of electronic harmonics that escape with digital outputs like dvi and hdmi...causing havoc with da converters downstream...
I was trying out media server as well...just like the idea of having all my vast collection of movies on server, so dont have to move too far from the beer and popcorn to change if a movie is not achieving the desired feeling wanted...
Sam
~Ps...guys this is not two rich fat slobs discussing...once you get to your forty's you find that most of us have some extra cash for our 'toys' and leave the women to their 'boytoys';
DeesTroy - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
I have been dabbling with HTPCs for a few years, though I'm certainly not an expert. I think most people underestimate the effort required and all of the stupid limitations placed on the user due to DRM or just the software maker. For example, want cable card? You'll have to go to Dell or HP if you want that and you can only use Vista MCE. Want to record sattelite HDTV? They are coming out with something you can attach to your PC soon, but it's not out yet to my knowledge. Want to watch live or recorded TV using another computer? Not something that's really supported with XP or Vista MCE. Sure, you can use an XBox 360 or a special extender, but not that spare PC you have lying around.Stability is of the utmost importance. Much testing must be done to ensure it all works right including the remote control. I generally charge 2 to 3 times the build cost for a HTPC due to all of the testing required to ensure it works right.
I don't understand the extreme dedication to building a quiet and good-looking HTPC in Anand's situation. If it's in a separate room, you probably won't be able to hear it over the fan noise from your projector. You can mount your Blu-Ray drive externally with USB or eSATA. Depending on how you set it up, RAID may not really be a requirement unless you want the redundancy. If you have trouble with stuttering, drop the RAID array as some people have reported stuttering primarly with BIOS-based RAID arrays.
HTPC support by hardware and software makers is somewhat lacking too. Try using a GeForce 8 with XP and 1080i ATSC HDTV. NVidia still hasn't, to my knowledge, implemented proper hardware support for MPEG2 deinterlacing under their XP drivers, so you get this weird stuttering that you don't get with a GeForce 7 or an AMD card. It works in Vista. Of course, this "feature" isn't documented anywhere, so it took me the better part of 6 months to figure this out. My AMD 3650 suffers weird random crashing when I open or close BeyondTV and/or PowerDVD.
Lastly, it will be difficult to find a single, slick-looking interface that integrates your TV, movies, and music. At least, from the sound of it, Anand isn't doing TV on the HTPC. Honestly, Anand, if you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of the HTPC world, do some work with HDTV and see where you get.
ducnow - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
I have had an almost identical set up for 2 years since My Movies came out. I never knew you could use a different title interface with the My Movies database then again I guess I never tried. My set up is...1 Media Center 2005 machine with 2 X 320GB HDD's, Core 2 6600. XFX Nvidia 8600GS with HDMI out it also HAS AUDIO TOO :) Intel 965SS, 2GB of DDR2 800, Samsung 46" LCD. Onkyo Receiver with 7.1 & it up converts every thing to 1080P. Getting a BR drive soon.
A server in the basement based on an Intel 955X board 8 SATA ports, Over 3TB of storage on 3 sets of RAID 1 PER TB, Server SMB Ed 2003 OS, 2GB of 667MHz RAM, P4 3.4GHz.
Xbox 360 in the bedroom "have fun getting that to work with My Moves it took 2 months to get the Xbox to stream movies.
All I can say is "Transcoder & REG hacks" and a lot of cursing!
Another Media center/Workstation in my "Computer Room" almost the same set up as the first machine & a gaming machine with an overclocked Q6600 with a Dual boot Media Center 2005 & Vista HP on a raid 0 with 2 WD 120GB HDD's 2GB Corsair 667MHz, 680i Nvidia chipset 'About too upgrade to the 790 ultra but I need DDR3.
24" Samsung LCD and a DVI KVM to connect them both.
Googer - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
I'd suggest tossing the skimpy SSD that will not hold much in the way of media files. Ditch all internal storage all toghether. In it's place I'd suggest using a remote storage unit like F-CAL (idealy), eSATA, external SAS, NAS, or a network bootable OS. This way, you can have large amounts of hard disc storage but the noise could be kept in another part of the house like the garage or attic. This would also solve the problem you are having with that Silverstone chassis.kallek - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
Is there any way of doing 24p with a HTPC? Do you need special hardware/software?somedude1234 - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
Anand, I've been checking back every day for updates to the HT blog, it looks like it's coming together beautifully. The theater itself looks like it will be amazing.A few questions on the HTPC:
- you're planning on an iPhone remote control interface, and you're installing a 35U rack... so why even bother with an ATX/mATX case? Why not throw in a supermicro or similar rack enclosure that has room to grow on the HDD front. They have a 4U 16 drive box right now.
- I'm with the others on the HDD/SSD... why not go diskless and do a network boot? With gig-E at commodity status and 10-Gb-E on the horizon, it shouldn't even be a bottleneck.
- finally: which slot-loading dvd/bluray drive are you planning on using with your new case?
somedude1234 - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
Correction... it's a 3U 16 drive case.oellrich - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Anand,HTPCs are somewhat of a hobby of mine. I think I am on my 6th one and the 7th has been in planning for some time now.
Unlike the previous 6 which used Shuttle barebones, the 7th will use an Antec case, the NSK2480. Why? Two, slow turning 120mm fans on the right side of the case blow right across the CPU area allowing the the use of a Sycthe Mini Ninja without a fan.
Nice Micro-ATX case, quality manufacturer, blends well with typical home theater components and no nasty sharp edges. If you feel the need for a VFD, Antec also has an upscale version of the NSK that has one. I just use a left over LCD monitor in the place of the VFD with my current Shuttle based HTPC.
What I find interesting as well is that as I have gotten deeper and deeper in to my HTPC forays things have gotten cheaper and cheaper!
[email protected]
ChuckECheese - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I've been dinking around with HTPCs for several years. The thing that finally sold me on SageTV is their HDMI HD extender. It is a small, fanless box that works great except updating the flash takes *forever*. I have my server in the basement so it can be as big and loud as I want. (No more bloody hands trying to get things to fit in small HTPC cases.) A Harmony 1000 remote with IR blasters and Z-Wave lets me put all the pieces behind closed doors and set up lighting profiles for actions.The default SageTV UI is ugly as sin, but there's enough third party tweaks out there to take care of that and add a web server so I can admin stuff remotely. DVD Profiler does the movie cataloging and the SageMC UI for SageTV picks up all the cover art and info and stuff. ShowAnalyzer does all the commercial skip work and you never even see that there is a commercial.
I use SlimServer for music because frankly that's not a SageTV strong point. But that lets me stream all over the house (and my PDA outside) and do things like let the kid's SB just list their music. I have a Roku wireless boombox for the bathroom and it feeds off of SlimServer fine.
SageTV doesn't do Blu-Ray. You can rip it I guess according to some post in their forums and get the main movie in a container it'll play, but seemed like too much work. So, the PS3 does that and you can get a USB plug so the Harmony can control it with RF including power. That's the only thing I miss, but I just rent Blu-Ray fro Netflix, so not going to be ripping it anyway.
It's as close as I've gotten to media nirvana. That'll probably change in a year or so. But it's really worth looking into.
Direwolf - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I got my TF11, its a awesome case and the entire case is rock solid. There is no plastic inside the case except the harddrive mount bracket. Even the dvdburner button to eject a discs metal!!It comes in a beautiful black box and even comes with gloves and a screw driver. Infortunately im still waiting for the IR Kit and the OLED screen.
Mark my words, only thing that could rival this case is an Origin AE S16v or the S21T. Btw I holds 4 80mm fans, 2 stock size and 2 80x80x15 size (I took the cardreader out and now it holds 4 stock sized 80mm fans.
kevon27 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
when most people use .mkv files it means they have downloaded ILLEGAL movies. So is Anand spending so much money on hardware he can't afford to BUY movies and now is probably facing fines from the RIAA?..Sunrise089 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
If you have the hardware, Anand's plan makes perfect sense. Why bother swapping disks around and taking most of the fun away from the iPhone interface. All Anand needs to do is buy the disks on BluRay and rip them at say 25gigs a pop. His 10TB RAID set-up can hold 400 such rips, a pretty nice library. With that done, all a visitor to AnandTheater sees is Anand sit down in his relaxing theater seating, pull his iPhone out of his pocket, and press a couple buttons. No walking to a closet and looking through a huge stack, no opening up another closed and revealing a PC, no whistle soundtrack as the drive starts to spin, no smudges or scratches...piracy is clearly not the only reason to use such a setup.JarredWalton - Friday, May 2, 2008 - link
Or rather than ripping at full bitrate, you could reencode to something smaller, so you can get 5-10GB per movie and still have a good quality 1080P output. AutoMKV is the new tool for stuff like that.legoman666 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I rip all of my movies to h264 + ac3 in a mkv container. Just because you illegally download movies in mkv format does not mean that everyone else does also.kevon27 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I only do bluray... DVD's are for the peasants. I not going to subject myself to that low quality bit torrent stuff you commoners are use to.Pip-pip!
Locutus465 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
You know, you can rip bluray, bluray rips are also available online.... In fact I think anand specificall discussed ripping "high deffinition content" in mkv format... what do you think he means?Locutus465 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Ok, so how does that iPhone web interface work? I was thinking of developing somethign for PPC that would allow roughly the same kind of access, but I guess if there's stuff in the works I'll just check that out.crimson117 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
It's just a web interface that happens to work in the iPhone browser. You could also access it from a laptop or desktop on your network.I'd love to see a developer come up with a native iPhone app for controlling media setups, though I expect there'd need to be some special software running on your media pc.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Exactly, the options are two-fold:1) Develop an iPhone optimized website (ala digg.com/iphone or iphone.facebook.com), or
2) Create an iPhone application that triggers web services running on the HTPC itself.
With the SDK due out this summer, I'm hoping the latter will be a possibility.
Locutus465 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Perhaps I'll see what can be done on PPC and put it out there then so non-GSM/apple folks can enjoy that kind of fun ;)cghebert - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Anand,sweet setup! Will you guys be doing any of your HTPC stuff with windows xp for those of us who haven't yet "upgraded" to Vista?
allengambrell - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Check out myTV plugin for media center for managing your tv shows. It works much better the video brower or mymovies because it uses a full database and downloads all the episode and show information from the web. I use it to manage all my recorded and downloaded shows.Also are you going to install a ATSC tuner? This is one of the best things about media center. I have dish too but the offair recoreded shows look much better on media center than on dish.
If I were you I would move the storage for the dvds and media to a fileserver dedicated for this purpose. You can then not have to worry so much about noise because you can hide it away from the rest of the rack. I run a gigabit network and have no problem playing recored HD shows or ripped dvds on 3 differant computers at a time. The only storage I have in my media center pcs is for recording show off the offair antenna. This is only because some nights I am recording up to 3 hd shows at a time and I am afraid that that and the playback may be a little to much for the network to handle.
Also myMovies and myTV both work great in a client/server setup you can put the database servers on the media server and then any changes you make on one computer will be reflected on all.
I have also tested a htpc with the same chipset that you are using and to me it seems to be really slow compared to my other intel/nvidia based htpc. It even has some trouble decoding recoreded hd shows fast enough to not to get skips and audio sync issues. I would stay away from it.
allengambrell - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I looked at the article again and still am not sure if you are doing a client/server?Also here is the link to myTV plugin
allengambrell - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
http://mytv.senseitweb.com/">http://mytv.senseitweb.com/lwatcdr - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Why have any drive at all? Why not just boot over you network? No drives, so less heat and less power needed.You could probably get away with a much smaller case as well.
I love the idea of using an IPhone/IPod touch as a super remote. Seems like a great idea for home automation in general.
puffpio - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Since your content is in a NAS and not in the HTPC itself, why use a hdd at all?I simple 4-8GB usb key or CF/SD/... would suffice for the boot drive and draw less power too
access times and transfer speeds shouldn't matter too much because you dont need to boot it up too often
najames - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I have enough hardware to get started on this same project. I have 2 different AMD mATX systems, one with a 3600 one with a 5000 CPU. I also just bought a Q6600 when Frys had them for $180, received an Asus G35 board last night. I also purchased a Saphire 3470 on Egg-sale for $40 if needed. I have several WD 640GB drives available. I have spent a lot of time testing with networking equipment and have achieved a 109MBytes/sec throughput to the WD drives. I have all the hardware necessary, but am not sure yet how to configure the system as a whole for the best setup. My current thinking is using an AMD box for the front end, use the Intel Quad horsepower for recoding and processing. I am not sure how much processing the HTPC box can do, yet still play flawless video. I'm sure I want the Intel as a 24/7 server or just a batch processing unit as needed either. Obviously, I don't want to run any more equipment 24/7 than necessary.It would be nice to split your articles into 2 distinct groups. Group 1 would be hardware that works, or doesn't work, like you've mentioned here already, failures are great to see too. List PC and server hardware, and requirements for single and multiroom processing. Group2 would be all the software combinations tried, then accepted or rejected. The earlier post by Havor, trying many different media centers is a great idea.
A diagram of the configurations would be helpful too, both hardware and software to show how it all fits together.
How many CatX and coax cables have you run to handle this? Are you recoding DVDs into AVI? What about ISO or some other format? We haven't even mentioned the satellite/cable control yet. So many things to consider, so little time. I'm itching to fire Scumcast.
Havor - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Hi Anand its starting to look really great (and i am bit jealous of your theater :-))But have you decided on what Media Center software are you going to use ?
There are 5 main options on the moment
MCE Vista/XP
MediaPortal
Myth-Buntu
SageTV
BeyondTV
You properly have done some research on it, of withs will fit you the best but it would be interesting if you would make a article of all the pro's and con's of the various options they have to deliver.
BigLan - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
BeyondTV is really only useful for TV, the media component (BeyondMedia) is lacking in features and is very poorly supported.I've used MCE (both WinXP and Vista) and it's very slick but isn't as configurable as other options. Like Anand, I didn't like the default viewer for MyMovies, maybe I'll look into the one he's using.
I haven't used Sage, MediaPortal or Myth in a long while but from what I hear MP has made a lot of good progress over the last year or so since I played with it.
I'm still running meedio on my HTPC, and even though the developer sold it to yahoo there's a decent community at meedios.com keeping it going. I prefer Meedio's way of handling browsing movies - give me a list of films (I have dvd covers) to choose from, show me some brief info (plot summary, run time, lead actors and rating) and then play it. I don't need all the imdb info, and browsing by letter is a pain. It looks like the video browser anand linked might fit the bill.
nolisi - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I've got my own little ongoing HTPC project- so far I've personally had experience with MCE, BeyondTV and MediaPortal. My personal opinion is that MediaPortal has the best blend of extensibility, functionality, lowest resource footprint, and stability- especially since it is now finally @ RC1. It definitely surpases BTV and MCE in terms of functionality- but that's what happens when you're an opensource project and everyone contributes their own plugins. MediaPortal never had the same issues that BTV had. They've made MP TV-Server installation mandatory with RC1, which mildly complicates the install- but if you're setting up your own HTPC you can deal with it. My current rig is an Athlon X2 3800, sitting on an nVidia 6150 platform, 2 GB of ram, a TV-Wonder 650 (ATSC) and an AIW 2006 PCI-E. Once I find the right 780G board, I'm moving over to that so I can finally start pushing HDMI to my receiver. The only problem is, there's no decent setup yet for EPG in the US without paying for it.I haven't forayed into the Linux world on my little project yet mainly because I haven't properly researched support for my hardware.
I highly recommend MediaPortal for a Windows platform, but I would love to see Anand do a review of the Linux based software. I'm considering Myth-TV, and will probably be testing it in another month on my current rig.
elfy6x - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I totally have to agree with you on the MediaPortal option. I just recently discovered it after having Vista's MCE for the past year. The best part about it, you can design and build your own skins for it! I'm currently finishing my MFA, so after schools out, I intend to build a really nice skin for MediaPortal and use that setup for my HTPC.neogodless - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I didn't see mention of what you plan to use for an optical drive, so I assume you won't have one in the final build. Will you rip movies on a separate machine and transfer them over the network? And if someone brings a Blu-ray movie over, will you be able to watch it right away, or will you have to rip it first? How long would that take?Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I've got a first generation Blu-ray drive in the machine right now, but my goal is to rip the movies on a separate machine (something much faster) and copy them over the network.If someone brings a Blu-ray movie over it should work right in the machine, but I think I'll need to get either PowerDVD or WinDVD installed for that purpose.
Jaguar36 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
How come the big push for a silent/energy efficient PC? If you've got a whole rack for it, why not just put the rack in a cabinet on the outside of the theater room, with some good sound proofing and heat control.I've been using Tversity through the 360 for a while now to stream all my content to my TV. It uses the Xbox's UI which is pretty good, and works pretty much flawlessly. It also doesn't require a dedicated HTPC.
Ohh and those speakers look way to small for how big a theater you're building.
ultimatex - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Remember that lazer projectors and Tvs are coming at low prices.irev210 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Hi Anand,After spending much time playing with HTPC mATX mobo's I have found that the G33 chipset works very well at decoding full VC-1 1080P with any intel core based processor.
However, the 7150 for example is TERRIBLE. I haven't tested the 8200 yet, but it sounds like it is a huge improvement.
You should check out the media-center G33 from gigabyte
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Pr...">http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Mot.../Product...
For a nice HTPC case that does the job without breaking the bank, check out the Antec Fusion. Much cleaner case with a nearly flawless layout.
I would run your 64GB SSD in your HTPC and have all of your HDD's in a server closet in your home. Honestly, you should consider talking to Infrant (now netgear) and go with their six bay readynas. Simple and elegant solution to all of your redundant storage needs, especially how nice the X-RAID feature is... makes it easy to upgrade HDD's with little hassle.
For a HTPC I am not sure why you purchased such a massive case. With the SSD, you have a really nice opportunity to have a 100% silent PC... you could probably get away running all passive cooling.
Anyway, enjoy! The HTPC is the best part of your project!
mikeclaffey - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
I've undertaken a project similar to yours and noticed the xbox360's media extender ability makes it a perfect unit for a 2nd room to access your main HPC. Perhaps you could look at this feature in a future article, it might provide an interesting read for some people.SteelSix - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Holy Crap! I thought the title pic was the home theater of a Hollywood buff, but that's actually your setup! I'm in awe. The design, down to the color selection and the ceiling, just incredible.Suggestion: A Contest!
Five lucky AnandTech members come hang out in your crib and watch a few movies or a game in style. Coach class is fine, we'll bring the beer, and would be just fine leaving our food and drink outside this masterpiece of a room! Seriously, do it.. :)
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
That's not a bad idea :) The picture is just a render, the full thing isn't done yet unfortunately (the ceiling is though :)..).Hopefully by the end of June the theater will be watchable.
Take care,
Anand
Locutus465 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Hey, I even live in Morrsiville that can't be far from anand ;)crimson117 - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
That would be great! Especially since every movie I've seen in the screenshots of the interfaces etc is a movie I like :)Kromis - Thursday, May 1, 2008 - link
Anand is BALLIN!kc2008ls - Monday, June 27, 2011 - link
You made great choice for your <a href="http://www.totalhtpc.com" target="_blank">home theater PC</a> case!kc2008ls - Monday, June 27, 2011 - link
www.TotalHTPC.com <-- Turn your HTPC into a DCR!